Is Plato the biggest hack? I'm an intellectual and well-versed

>>8587307
it is very obvious that socrates was the real thinker and plato is our best source for his ideas

no one takes any of plato's actual philosophy seriously but his socratic dialogues are undoubtedly important

also you're a pseud

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>I'm an intellectual
Yeah, right. You'd be the first one here.

>Calling yourself an intellectual on /lit/
>Saying Plato is shit because you traced some arguments and they didn't add up
9/10, all you need now is to recommend Stirner and you've got yourself some top b8

The Greeks and the Irrational

>Socrates provided an inspiration for hellenics and romans
>Aristotle provided an inspiration for the medievals and subsequently modern science

>Plato is literally fucking irrelevant to history, all his ideas were torn to pieces even in his time
kek on top of lel

There's a group of shitposters who have been posting bait threads such as these for the past few months, which is why you may have noticed a sharp decline in post quality lately. They all organize on a discord chat in order to maximize their shitposting potential.
https://discord.gg/AQmsQ
Report and move on.

I could easily complain about OP's tone of course, but I came to the realization that the only way to get replies from /lit/ is by being polemic.

>>8587403

Replies directed at the tone.

>>8587417
You're right, but I've seen lots of serious threads fade away into nothing.

>>8587307

>calls self intellectual
>subtly namedrops college-level classes
>uses "ironic" quotes
>uses words like 'happenstance'

yeah this is what i'd do if i was trying to write really shitty bait

i wouldn't normally comment but i feel i ought to call to attention just how shoddy this is

Plato would vote Donald Trump.

>>8587450
You could say just as well that Plato would denounce Trump as one of the reasons democracy fails.

>>8587307
I think pretty much everyone would agree with this. Plato was a regression on Parmenides and Heraclitus, if only we had more of the latter two instead of the dialogues.

>>8587307
>Now, Plato is essentially something for people who aren't intellectuals to read on the subway, and even Black folk have started to realize this.

I kek'd pretty hard OP, nice reference.

>>8587455
Thanks for pointing out that Plato's "philosophy" is muddled.

>>8587472
You could just as well confess that you're a retard that needs everything spoonfed to you.

>>8587479
Triggered.

>>8587319
That's not obvious at all you hack, and the two (his philosophy and the dialogues) are not separable. Socrates most likely existed, but the guy we read about is a character created by Plato to confer is own ideas. It's worth remembering that the dialogues were little more than advertisements for his school of philosophy, basically teasers on Platos ideas. That's why they rarely reach a conclusion on the central theme that is discussed, and that is why Whitehead said that everything is a footnote. Because Plato teases, that's what he does, at least in the works that survived.

>>8587496
I think he had non-dialogue works too, but it was lost iirc.

>>8587503
Probably, but even more probably the bulk of his teachings were not written down but given teacher to student at his Academy.

Plato was one of the greatest men to walk the earth.

>>8587503
You're psychic.

>>8587468
what is it i dont get it

>>8587510
I'm not sure about it.

>>8587468
Kek, how did I miss that.

WTF I hate Plato now...

>>8587307
>and even Black folk
Lost it.

>>8587307
Hello, Diogenes

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>>8587307
Actual intellectuals don't concern themselves with being an intellectual, and wouldn't qualify themselves as such.

Nice bait though

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>>8587307
>I'm an intellectual and well-versed in the history of Western Thought and Idea

>>8587513
There's a greentext of a white guy reading Plato on the subway that I will paraphrase

>Black Guy:"Are you an intellectual?"
>Anon:"No."
>Black Guy:"That's why you read Plato"

Anon felt insecure and cried the rest of the day.

>>8589546
one reads plato to become intellectual. an intellectual has read all plato at least a decade ago. so it makes perfect sense.

>>8589586
I think the anon was just insecure already and the black guy didn't mean to insult him.

>>8587307
>every single philosopher ever has been obsessed with Plato, and every single one of their works has only been preoccupied with responding to him
OP is a false-flagging Platonist.

>>8589586
>one reads plato to become intellectual.
One reads Plato to realise he is not intellectual.

>>8589586
>>8589713
both can be true

>>8587307

>Implying Platonic theory of mathematics isn't influential to this day

>>8587455

>Implying Plato believed in democracy

Nigga what the fuck.

>>8590658
I wasn't implying that, the opposite actually.

>>8587307
Good God man, just give up. Find some cozy place to lie down and die.

>>8587307

You should stop picking up books if you aren't going to take the time to read and understand them. Plato was a genius. There is no question that Aristotle was "better" in terms of creating more relatable arguments, but if you can think in the abstract, he and Aristotle are essentially arguing for the same thing: Meritocracy.

He did not. He wrote his philosophies in dialogue form specifically because he felt that philosophical thought couldn't properly exist in written form. Once it's written down the original authors intent can be lost or misinterpreted or twisted. The philosopher needs to be able to defend his ideas and guide potential students.

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>I'm an intellectual

stopped reading right there

Plato did not know better, Kant on the other hand...

>>8587307
>british parliament
>debate
At least you tried.

>>8587307
Why bother making a thread if you're not going to make a single argument to illuminate your point?

Let me explain why I'd recommend this book to everyone: Plato is stupid.

Seriously.

And it's important that you all understand that Western society is based on the fallacy-ridden ramblings of an idiot. Read this, understand that he is not joking, and understand that Plato is well and truly fucked in the head.

Every single one of his works goes like this:

SOCRATES: "Hello, I will now prove this theory!"
STRAWMAN: "Surely you are wrong!"
SOCRATES: "Nonsense. Listen, Strawman: can we agree to the following wildly presumptive statement that is at the core of my argument?" {Insert wildly presumptive statement here— this time, it's "There is such a thing as Perfect Justice" and "There is such a thing as Perfect Beauty", among others.}
STRAWMAN: "Yes, of course, that is obvious."
SOCRATES: "Good! Now that we have conveniently skipped over all of the logically-necessary debate, because my off-the-wall crazy ideas surely wouldn't stand up to any real scrutiny, let me tell you an intolerably long hypothetical story."
{Insert intolerably long hypothetical story.}
STRAWMAN: "My God, Socrates! You have completely won me over! That is brilliant! Your woefully simplistic theories should become the basis for future Western civilization! That would be great!"
SOCRATES: "Ha ha! My simple rhetorical device has duped them all! I will now go celebrate by drinking hemlock and scoring a cameo in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure!"

The moral of the story is: Plato is stupid.

Plato is GOAT. The entire western philosophy isn't a footnote to Plato, it's a series of attacks on him, and attempts to defend him, from what I read.

>>8592709
This is like reading A Modest Proposal and thinking Swift was a cannibal.

>there are people here RIGHT NOW that don't believe in the platonic ideals
W E W

>>8592809
What if he was...

>>8592701
Because it's a bait

>>8592709
Kek

>>8587307
>>8592709
holy...I want more.

>>8592709
Nice repost of a Goodreads review, lmao.

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plato was a master poet and one of the world's true geniuses. i think a lot of people take his Republic as his entirely serious proposal for the ideal State, but where this falls apart is when you realize he's using it as an allegory or parallel for the ideal Soul. he uses the analogy of small-print and large-print writing; if you read a page in large-print, you can make out the small-print easily. He uses this method in distinguishing the ideal Soul, and from that, a definition of Justice.

his proposal for what modern readers would now see as a totalitarian, fascist state is a misunderstanding: plato is putting forward something more like a poetic thought experiment. it's not as easy as a "here, kids--now go out and do this!" gross simplifications and misunderstandings of philosophers more clever than you lead to things like the Nazi adoption of Nietzsche, not good stuff. maybe read some more socratic dialogues where there's a more agnostic view, and his conversations have less "yes-men" and more complex back-and-forths of ideas. socrates and plato are very different, though one taught the other. read more, talk less, but most of all: have fun!

>>8587307
>I'm an intellectual
You're an idiot.

>>8594367
Hey i'm currently reading The Republic and am interested in what you described. Where should I go next with Plato after I finish?