Can someone help? I'm doing personal endings for conjugations

>>8578901
>>/int/

>what are macrons

>>8578901
stresses are a waste of time in latin and attic greek (prove me wrong)
sure you sometimes need to stress to know the case of a noun but desu you'll figure that out with context.

>>8579541
What about how a bulk of Greek & Latin writings are in meter? Does meter not matter to you either?

>>8579548
what i mean is exercises where you have to write the language are a waste time. you should be able to read the language and know how the language sounds but it's definitely a waste of time to ever learn the dozen rules of stressing verbs in greek.

penultimate rule, mate. pages 7-8. stress/accent and vowel length are not the same thing. in your pic the vowels of the personal endings are shortened before final -t or -nt.

>>8579541
>stresses are a waste of time in latin and attic greek (prove me wrong)
nicca we're not going back to no spacing before you even think about it
>>8579548
meter often changes stress from where it would ordinarily be. accents do matter, but they often aren't indicated in the text. they put them in babby books so you learn where stress would ordinarily be and how to pronounce the word, but they rarely appear in the originals. this occasionally led to problems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sannyrion
in latin poetry, stress often changes to fit the meter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_spelling_and_pronunciation#Iambic_shortening
The section above that will explain >>8579660 to you also

>>8579355
Sadly, /int/ is a shithole if you want to learn languages. Though, there are sometimes threads and people that help in those shitty generals.

OP and everyone else itt does not know the difference between stress and quantity. The stress is stress, like in English. So cinaedus the ae is stressed. The penult is stressed if it's long by nature, the antepenult if it's short.

Quantity is how long a syllable is pronounced. It's long if it contains a long vowel or diphthong, or it's followed by two consonants (except two consonants that can start a word, like tr, in which case it goes either way). There are some rules for long vowels (e.g. a vowel followed by nt is always short) but generally you have to learn the length as you learn the word. Poetry reinforces this a lot for obvious reasons. OP you will know the vowel lengths of different conjugations inside and out without memorizing them if you read a bit, because they come up constantly.

This site gives a good overview of the rules but I never needed to learn these things myself. You pick up quantity naturally from reading poetry.

http://rharriso.sites.truman.edu/latin_vowel-quantity_macrons_macra/

>>8580568
>Quantity is how long a syllable is pronounced.
no. you're reading longum as a cognate for long. read it as heavy and you'll see your problem.

you basically just explained what everyone else did, but in a more retarded fashion and with greater chance of confusing OP, and pointless distinction.

cinaedus breaks down ki/nae/dus and nae is longum not because it is pronounced for longer, but because it's "long by nature" as you described with
>contains a long vowel or diphthong,
and therefore a HEAVY penult, not pronounced for longer.

Stress is not stress like in English, because in English you can do things like
>Stress is *not* stress like English.
and cannot do things like iambic shortening.

I want to help but this thread is so confused I've no idea where to start.

Stress is one thing.
Vowel length is another.
Syllable length (or weight) is yet another.

>>8580836

>no. you're reading longum as a cognate for long. read it as heavy and you'll see your problem.

No. It's literally long. It's pronounced twice as long as a short syllable. You're confused because it's called "heavy" in the context of poetic feet.

>Stress is not stress like in English

Yes it is, though it is not nearly as strong as English stress.

>cannot do things like iambic shortening.

That's to do with length, not stress.

>>8579728
>Sadly, /int/ is a shithole if you want to learn languages.
generally yes, but it is also the only place you can practice the language in a non-annoying environment. /int/ is literally the best place in the internet to speak Irish for example. Not that it's good, just everywhere else is shit

The big confusion comes with English-speakers reading the thesis of a foot in poetry with a stress, i.e. louder.

So they'd read the first line of Lucretius as

AE-ne-a-DUM-ge-ne-TRIX-ho-mi-NUM-di-VOM-que-vo-LUP-tas

Actually the (light) stress should be the same as in prose, and vowel length should be scrupulously observed. Marking long vowels with colon, stress with an acute accent

ae:-é-a-dum: gé-ne-trix: hó-mi-num: di:-vóm:-que vo-lúp:-tas:

An important part of Latin poetry is the interplay of the accent of the word with the thesis of a foot. Generally the thesis and accent are out of synch the first half of the line, and come together in the second. This has a nice effect on the ear. In the line above, the om in divom (accented because of the enclitic) and the lup of voluptas both occur at the start of a poetic foot. In the beginning of the line, stress and thesis are not lined up.

>and therefore a HEAVY penult, not pronounced for longer.

Do you not understand that a diphthong is long?

> not because it is pronounced for longer, but because it's "long by nature

Long by nature means it is pronounced longer. A long syllable is pronounced two morae, as they say. A syllable that is "long by position" is also long but the vowel is not long, the syllable is long because it ends in two consonants (with the exceptions I noted) etc. So in "ex sterculino ecfosse" the "ec" is long by position, even though the e itself is short.

>>8582159
>No. It's literally long. It's pronounced twice as long as a short syllable. You're confused because it's called "heavy" in the context of poetic feet.
You do realise that longum and brevis are only used in that context? You're confusing bimoric for longum. It's a common confusion.
>Yes it is, though it is not nearly as strong as English stress.
This is how I know you didn't learn Greek either. Stress is not stress like in English, and it gets more complex with pitch stresses in Greek. That's the mistake Hegelochus made. Latin is simpler, but it's not like English poetry.
>That's to do with length, not stress.
No, iambic shortening is where the light syllable in a light-heavy word is stressed. It shortens the vowel length of the heavy syllable, but the stress has to fall on the light syllable for that to happen. Even in English iambs are accentual syllabic forms which rely on stress.

>>8582180
>Actually the (light) stress should be the same as in prose, and vowel length should be scrupulously observed

>can't pronounce ego in prose or poetry
You retard, the whole point of iambic shortening is that only affects iambs.
>Do you not understand that a diphthong is long?
For vowel length it is. When you look at it in poetry however, it is not only a long vowel, but a "long by nature" penult which is a different thing. You're still trying to maintain that vowel length isn't augmented by position, and that what is actually stress is vowel length.
>a long syllable is pronounced two morae, as they say
It'd be great if you knew that word only applies to the vowel length of a syllable, not the whole syllable.

What is the value in learning Latin?