why is nihilism is so popular with the kids?

Because it's correct.

>>8559202
but most of them believe in the wrong kind of nihilism

>>8559194
Because it's the disease of our time.

>>8559203
I don't speak with many kids about philosophical matters, can you describe the kind of nihilism that they believe in?

>>8559194
A better question is why is it unpopular with the grown-ups?

Because we killed God.

>>8559202
Nihilism is an outdated buzzword, negation of religious values implying that we cant find agreement on certain ethical or epistemic matters without something to believe in.

It's language game par excellence, invoking schemes that never existed to begin with in order to negate them and then crying "nuffin really matters" ad nausea.

Do people really not see how silly this is? I guess they don't.

>>8559222
Also what's up with this "make your own meaning" trope?

Meaning is dedcided by the communtiy.

>>8559214
Because most of them have grown up

>>8559224
which community?

>>8559194
Because it's simple, just like them

>>8559224
Sorry mate. I will not be trusting 'community' to determine my own meaning.

Speaking from personal experience nihilism as cognized by young ones tends to be a lazy and contrarian flavor of skepticism. It's supposed to elicit a "destructive affect" by questioning value and truth systems. The goal is to destroy the conceived authority/father figure and nothing else.

But of course no such thing follows from nihilism. You want to abolish religiously inspired morals (or simply relativize to such a degree that no one takes it "seriously")? It seems like you have a motive there. What do you want to replace it with? Surely the answer can't be "nothing"? Hopefully it becomes clear that some kind of ethics is inevitable.

So I don't think you do your intellect any justice by calling yourself a nihilist. Questioning and examining things is good but do it properly.

>>8559202
FPBP

>>8559214

Because most of them are deluded and brainwashed idiots.

>>8559214
Grown-ups have a lot of responsibilities and obligations and therefore they have to lie to themselves to muster the strength to get through the day.

Nihilism is a luxury in a sense, it's not compatible with playing the game like your average adult without breaking down. The game functions by delusion.

It's kind of like how peasants had to tell themselves that the meek will inherit the earth in order to keep on toiling for their lord.

>>8559303
>Nihilism is a luxury in a sense
A luxury you say?

But.. if I understood the usage of the word correctly aren't luxuries a good thing?

>>8559313
I think he means it's more of a consequence of luxury

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The society we live in is created to beat you down and demoralize you till you have constant feelings of boredom and depression, which is then exploited by advertisements and marketing to warp you into a good consumer, of course the products you consume will never be good enough so these feelings never leave.
The absence of religion or a life philosophy exacerbates this materialism.

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>>8559207
The stereotype.

>>8559319
implying religion doesn't do the same thing
>tfw you will never be as great as God
>you better be good in gods eyes or you won't get to heaven

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>>8559330
You have to think about the history of religion, i agree that religion as of the modern day is a system of control, especially the Abrahamic ones.
One must have some sort of purpose or goal in life, otherwise they are empty, depressed, and without reason.

You see this even in modern atheism, its imitation of religion through organization and symbols.
One must use religion for ones own spiritual fulfillment, not as a way of control or for monetary value.

For all the fedora tipping, god has not been disproven.
One does not have to be organized to follow a religion,
One does not have to follow a mainstream religion, or even modern one.

The atheists also think they have a monopoly on science, when the occult and science where intertwined for centuries before secularism killed tradition.
Another thing people lack in this modern life.

Pol is currently worshiping the Egyptian god of chaos, kek

>>8559313
A luxury in the sense of most people not being able to 'afford' it. In the sense that sitting on your ass all day and not starving is a luxury.

You could also say a privilege. :^)

>>8559360
And it would be desirable to have this luxury as to have a better grasp of reality, Truth? Like you said in your first post, everything else is people telling lies to themselves right?

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>>8559398
People can accept either truth or meaning. There is no meaning in truth and there is no truth in meaning.

You can delude yourself into thinking there is place for a hopeful narrative for your meatsack existence or accept you're a void dweller bound for nothingness. You just have to determine which you desire more, meaning or truth.

Depending on your personality and lifestyle truth might lead to a more agreeable life since you won't suffer the constant cognitive dissonance. But to others it might be more agreeable to double down on the lie.

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>>8559324
>nothing in life matters
>thumbs up
>2 months later
>decide to leave your basement
>i don't c-care anymore
>here Chad have all my lunch money, nothing matters
>a-and Stacy, heh, but uhh.. wanna hang out sometime? ;)
>thumbs up

>>8559435
>chads
>not nihilists

picanto uno

>>8559435 interesting scenario that's never happened

>>8559425
What's up with the emotionally fueled words here? Who hurt you? Why do I have to be a meatsack void dweller? Why can't I be the most intelligent biological species to ever exist?

Arguing in favor of nihilism is pointless

>>8559483
arguing in favor of God is pointless. if you have true faith in God you have nothing to argue

>>8559502
Many religions put the onus of preaching and expanding the faith to others upon the practitioners

>>8559220
The only correct answer has no replies. We live in a godless world now, even though religion is still extremely powerful. This is Ivan Karamazov's dream world.

Also, nihilism isn't >>8559324 this bullshit. Nihilism is the negation of all programming whether it is cultural, spiritual, or biological. It is reveling in destroying these systems of control and the freedom of the man's ability to act.

The ultimate personal act of nihilism is suicide, the overthrow of the most primary biological function of self preservation. Mutually assured destruction via nuclear Armageddon is the nihilistic signal of mankind's supremacy. We have the capacity to not only destroy ourselves but our past and future. God is no longer capable of such a feat.

>>8559522
lol the onus huh?I put the anus to you mofuckrrs

faith isn't about telling people you have it, its bout following it to see if your faith is well placed

>>8559482
I was just trying to make a point by opposing my terminology to the normal feel good narratives people adhere to as much as I can. Less dramatic wording is also fine with me.

>Why can't I be the most intelligent biological species to ever exist?
This is possibly entering feel good narrative territory again though. The chance that humans are the most intelligent biological species to ever exist is quite small.

>>8559194
bc mom and dad dont like it

Holy shit this thread, a few fortune cookies in and young 20 year old kids think they can explain the whole world.

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>nothing matters my man
>How do you know?
>if you werent such a fucking sheep you wudnt ask
>mfw

>>8559585
>the 'i'm above this but i still have to come here and say it' unironic shitpost

a classic

>>8559585
can you explain the world, smartass?!

I didn't know /lit/ didn't read Nietzsche.

Coulda guessed though

>>8559425
Prove nihilism.

>>8559775
>proving a negative

Not sure what you're talking about.
The punk kids follow Camus's nihilism.
Emos aren't a thing anymore. Of course there's always babies first existential crisis but only dweebs and weirdos get stuck in that phase.

Over all. What kids are nihilists?

>>8559775
Well there is no God so there is no truth. If there is no truth then everything is permitted. If everything is permitted then it is the ultimate expression of will to do the opposite of what is appropriate.

Marry whores and chastise the chaste my friends.

>>8559810
>positively being sure of that rule

shit nihilism

>>8559838
>Well there is no God so there is no truth.
There is a God so there is truth.

>>8559838
huh.

Is that true?

>>8559849
Pretty much. Read Descartes.

>>8559856
Not at all. I take it on faith.

>>8559858
Read Kant, asshole.

>>8559858
Oh fuck those two lines go together spiffingly.

Pretty fucking good post 10/10, blew me out of the water

>>8559775
>le prove that there isn't an invisible pink rhino in the room RIGHT NOW xD

Anti-realism is solipsism tier

>>8559858
>Not at all. I take it on faith.
Derp! Retard alert!

>>8559867
>he didn't Start With Descartes

>>8559872
well like, prove it at all. There is no reason to follow it if it's true, and there is even less reason to if it isn't.

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>>8559872
>nothing matters
>Yeah ok I'm pretty sure having a full stomach matters as does having family and friends and reading some good fucking lit
>nuh-uh
>Why?
>those things don't really matter :3

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Hey nihilists.

From nihilism nothing follows.

U mad?

>>8559893
>instincts are meaning

>>8559918
that's the point

>>8559986
>instincts aren't meaning

>>8559224
Meaning is nothing more than a personal interpretation of value attached to a specific event, action, thing, etc. Meaning is not decided be community, it exists only within the individual, despite its seeming ability to be shared. But no one share the same meaning, just their interpretation of a thing that is supposedly shared.

Also, I'm not clear on why it's important for things to 'mean' anything. It's something we attach to to our lives, it doesn't exist independently, yet we throw a depressed little shit fit if it isn't there.
"Woe is me, why doesn't my life have meaning?"
"Well why the fuck should it?"

>>8559884
You're right, if nihilism is correct there is no ethical obligation to act in a certain way or believe certain things and you are free to delude yourself into adhering to other worldviews.

The only problem is that depending on your personality and inherent desire to seek out truth, it might lead to enduring cognitive dissonance to stay in denial of nihilism and this may ultimately prove to cause you more discomfort than accepting nihilism.

Some people find their lives more agreeable accepting nihilism and some (most) people find life more agreeable denying nihilism and trying to believe in some sort of meaningful narrative. The problem is that nihilism can come back to bite you in the ass since that meaning is inevitably a house built on sand.

If you want to commit to some sort of meaningful narrative you have to weight the consequences of the rug being pulled out from under you at some point against the temporary comfort it provides. You also have to consider your talent for suspension of disbelief and consider if this is a lifelong effort you are capable of maintaining.

>>8560034
so what's the big problem with that discomfort?

How can I weigh the consequences if my narrative of that what makes me happy being worthy of achieving is yanked away from me?

Is Hedonism excempt from all this?

>>8560060
>so what's the big problem with that discomfort?
There's no big problem, just something I thought you might like to consider.

>How can I weigh the consequences if my narrative of that what makes me happy being worthy of achieving is yanked away from me?
I think the notion of happiness is already deep into hopeful feel good narrative territory. But you're right, it's hard to make any permanent decisions because arguably we never really quite know how delusional we are when we make decisions. If anything the idea that we are sort of free entities that make decisions is itself delusional. Some level of delusion is necessary for humans to function, the question is how much delusion one should accept, whether you should try to keep it minimal or just run with it.

>Is Hedonism excempt from all this?
Hedonism as an ideology in the sense that pleasure is the good and that we ought to maximise pleasure is not except from this of course. But without making it into a philosophical system I can personally say that I find discomfort disagreeable and tend to move away from it when I can, and I think most people have the same preference.

Can anyone explain the relationship between absurdism and nihilism to me?

Because it's not popular with the kids outside of the circle of 20 something upper middle class white people who dropped out of college and have the luxury of pretending nothing matters because they don't have to ever worry about actually succeeding in life because they have a modest safety net from their parents. These people are a very small minority in real life, but their omnipresence on the internet makes almost the whole thing unbearable.

reference: my brother and sister are both """"""""""nihilists"""""""""" despite not having ever read anything more challenging than a wikipedia article on any ideology and having a very tentative grasp on what the word nihilism even means

>>8559849
Antinomies!

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Because the Sacred is dead.

God is a choice, love is a hobby, politics is a sport, art is a game, etc. The concept of God/Love/Beauty with a capital first letter is gone and there is no longer anything to replace it but the things we choose to believe in and, regardless of what you'll hear from intellectuals, if you choose to believe in something it is nowhere near as satisfying as just believing in it without a conscious decision.

Young people and "intellectuals" feel empty inside because they have no Sacred and, even though there's ISIS and all that, there's not even a great war to occupy their minds long enough to distract them. WWII was a uniting event in many people's minds at the time and even the next generation were consumed with its effects. Vietnam had the rebellion movement that took up the temporary mantle of the Sacred Cause, too. Once the 80s hit the trend began of emptiness, materialism, and nihilism. I'd even suggest that the initial boom of the internet in the 90s/early 2000s took up some of the Sacred's responsibilities.

Now there is nothing and people don't know what to do about it. They throw themselves into small causes like their unique gender identity, the racial issue, sexuality, etc. to give them both the feeling of being part of a cause and the individualism of their created labels to give themselves meaning but these things are temporary fads (as far as their participation) and they're already growing out of them. The widespread embrace of "nihilism" is just people without the Sacred accepting that they feel empty inside.

It's actually very, very sad.

The same reason reddit is.

>>8562489
Citation needed

>>8562489
college de sociologie?

>>8562512

After looking at the Wikipage for that, no, I don't think so. I just happened to use the word Sacred for it. Then again I haven't read any of those people so maybe their ideas are closer to mine than what that half-assed wiki page said.

Have you read them? Do they essentially discuss what I posted?

>>8561138
IMHO Absurdism sees people as creating meaning from nothing, Nihilism see's no meaning to create.

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No one nowadays, beyond a few shut-ins, is a conscious nihilist.

Modern day nihilists are only COINCIDENTAL nihilists. They do not decide to become nihilists, nor are they necessarily aware that they are. Most normies don't even know what the fucking term means: confusing 'nihilism' and 'narcissism' all the time for example (whilst also being generally unaware of the latter term's meaning too).

What you call 'nihilists' are, in reality, bourgeois bohemians who take the philosophy of Aurelius to its most autistic ends. "Eat, drink and be merry" with a pinch of Matthew 6:34. Like dogs, and Laozi, people live evermore for the present now - which is why any grand designs, such as those that brought about (and maintained) Rome's thousand-year empire, are destined to fail in the hands of these Last Men.

>>8559194
>>8559202
Kids still have the feeling that they discovered something new and need to broadcast it to the world.
Old guys still know that it is correct, they just stopped giving a fuck about it.

I want a T-shirt that says "I believe in nihilism"

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>>8559425
>>8559425

>>8562608
The only correct answer here.
Bonsoir.

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>nothing matters

>>8560604
>There's no big problem, just something I thought you might like to consider.

how the fuck would I consider it, seeing as there is nothing to measure it against?

>>8562593
that's atheistic existentialism, absurdism doesn't have you create any meaning, the meaning emerges on its own through your human struggle against the nihil. You don't have a choice presented to you what meaning you want, the meaning is the struggle.

People creating meaning from nothing is existentialism where EVERYTHING is a choice presented to you.

>>8562489
the sacred doesn't have to be dead if we could just stop being lazy fucks

>there's no meaning
>but there's you
>no single desire or part of you is absolute, so every part can be overwritten with effort and skill
>the most general things you are drawn to is called happiness
>so achieve happiness
Is this the correct way to deal with nihilism?

>>8559194
Because our school systems are filled with relativism and post modernism which destroys their souls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvmUTeZvl6I

>>8559303
>Grown-ups have a lot of responsibilities and obligations and therefore they have to lie to themselves to muster the strength to get through the day.
What do you mean? How do they lie to them self?

>>8562489
This is absurd, most well-adjusted humans don't need somebody to prove to them that art or beauty matter.

>>8559825
>Camus's nihilism

the correct Nihilism then

>>8563210
Advanced Nihilism.

>>8562775
How do you mean there is nothing to measure it against? Why do you need some external set of values to measure your decisions against?

>>8563251
an internal set of values would be enough. What is considering other than weighing two options? And how do I weigh if there's no unit of measurement? It would be arbitrary, but then, if it were, it wouldn't always result in personal preference. So I'm still using my preference as a value.

Why do you assume an external set of value anyways?

>>8559825
All of them, it's just that to a modern secular person nihilism is their normal way of functioning, just like being a Christian in medieval Europe wasn't a choice you made.

Kids are fish and the nihilism is the water.

>>8559554
Thinking that death is special in any way is not very nihilistic

>>8563295
It isn't just death it's suicide. Killing yourself (not out of shame or any other acceptable reason) runs counter to all pre-existing culture.

>>8563316
Yeah, but why would you care about denying pre-existing culture?

>>8563255
It seems like your approach is that you need a conscious clear ideology as a sort of operating system to use to make decisions.

I don't think that's necessary. You can just wing it with your monkey brain without getting systematic about it.

Systemic thought came way later than thought itself. The idea of an orderly set of values upon which we can then act consistently and rationally upon is sort of an impossible ideal and a bit of a meme if you ask me.

>>8563410
the ideology doesn't need to be conscious, doesn't need to be clear, but what you are advocating here isn't leaving behind values, it's just banishing them to the more-or-less unconscious.

I'm not even mentioning that that in itself is an act of value, more importantly, what does that solve? The meaningful narrative isn't explicit anymore, that's just a *thing*, that's nothing, that's not even more or less 'agreeable to most', even though that already violates the paradigm of winging it, deciding conciously against the need for an orderly set of values that comes perfectly naturally.

>>8563325
Nihilism really does state that life is suffering. The argument for suicide isn't the point of nihilism it just follows from it.

The anti-culture stuff is edgy Russian nihilism. Basically you try to shock people who actually believe things by fervently believing in the opposite. Suicide is the final step to shock people but rarely does anyone follow through with it which is unfortunate.

>>8563430
why would you shock people?

>>8563449
For the lulz

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>>8559838
But you shee, it is preschisely if there is a god that everything ish permitted

>>8560008
Why is it so difficult that things can have subjective meaning to you without actually having any larger meaning outside of your own life

>>8559303
They were right about the meek inheriting the world

>>8563611
because subjective meaning is meaning?

>>8562489
One of the better analysis i've seen on /lit/ in a while.
The violent response we see in the world to these ideas demonstrates a certain level of passive acceptance that these ideas could hold weight, something that never would have even been considered in times when the church was more powerful, and a desperate resistance to them out of fear

>>8563626
not in the sense that people usually mean when they speak against nihilism/ about truth or inherent beauty
Sorry I misunderstood, I think we're in agreement

>>8562489
This is a very nice post.

I've come to see it all the time now in people. And this isn't just some form of projection. Every time I get a new housemate or start a new job I've come to expect at least a couple of people allude to or even explicitly express existential despair.

People who say, "just grow up" don't get it. I don't want it to be this way, I've tried everything to overcome it, rationalise it away, ignore it, find some ideology to believe in.

Clearly those who have had some form of social difficulties are more likely to fall into it. But that doesn't mean that's the reason why they feel that way, its just one of many ways to get there. Some seem better able to deal with it than others, but you can't ignore it now. I agree, that's its just so tragic.

>>8562608

The most insightful yet witty comment ITT.

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>>8559918

Yes.

>>8559355
they worship it as a joke, faggot

They think it's cool and edgy to say 'nothing REALLY matters' but actually hold sentiments about countless things.

Nihilism is actually the belief that nothing exists.

>>8559194
Science, superstition and culture have all been dissected and found follow.

>>8559194

its all style and no substance

Was Berkeley a proto-nihilist?

>>8563025
But when there's a distinct lack of importance towards it in society, then there are less who understand that art and beauty matter.

Consider this: people go to museums now and take pictures/selfies of themselves in front of timeless pieces of art and sculpture. To many, many people, the art itself doesn't matter; it's the "prestige" and influence that these things have on the person that does. A friend sees another friend in front of The Thinker and thinks "oh, that person must be smart".

There isn't any importance in art or beauty to many people any more. It's only about what it stands for.

>>8562608
>What you call 'nihilists' are, in reality, bourgeois bohemians who take the philosophy of Aurelius to its most autistic ends. "Eat, drink and be merry" with a pinch of Matthew 6:34.
Isn't 'eat, drink and be merry' from Ecclesiastes? What does Aurelius have to do with it?

>>8564126
me on the right

>>8559224
>implying I belong to a community

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>>8562489

I think what you say about the rise of the internet taking the role of the Sacred is right. People have taken to the internet to, in the eyes of some, become the Sacred of the internet. So I suppose that its not really the fact that the internet has taken the place of the Sacred but rather given a platform to allow the people to become the Sacred. The rise of consumerism has led to some of the people disapproving system and even creating art in its name [see: vaporwave].

But honestly, I do believe that you don't have to explain art to people. Going through life, people tend to resonate with what they find enjoyable or beautiful and even a small amount of thinking on that matter should be enough to push them towards ideas in their minds of what is Beauty or Love.

>>8559838
That's existentialism you schlong

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Nihilism is only the first step.
Nihilism>Creative Nothing>Anatta>Śūnyatā

>>8559194

>It's an everyone mistakes existentialism for nihilism episode

>>8559355
>Pol
>/pol/

How's your first day on 4chan going? Good for you, leaving /b/

>>8559482
>implying

>>8559858
Oh my fuck

>>8562593
Shoot whoever taught you the apostrophe. In the same sentence? bruh

very high level shitpost

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>>8559194
Because the gods are dead.

The Sun used to order us when to rise and when to sleep. The River used to order us where to live, when to sow and when to reap. The Father used to order us to marry and to obey him in all things.

All of this was obligatory, under pain of death. There was no choice in life except for the lucky few god-kings and rich men who lived like gods; one had to work or perish.

Industrialization, technology, economic and social development have killed them. We have a million sun-slaves now that serve us. The toil of farming is gone, our food supply is secured for us without our even noticing it, and we summon clean water from a million river-slaves by waving our hands. And the Father's institutions are obsolete, ignored and impotent; our new masters are lenient and generous and demand so little.

We read of kings and rich men growing dissolute, but we all have time and freedom and riches and luxuries to make any of them beg us.

Since our life and riches are already assured, the only question now is what we want.

I suspect in time Death too will be killed, and we will sit like the children of Kronos and look at each other in distrust and wonder what it is that we actually want.

They are confused and the idea that there is no answer is comforting to them.

>>8564598
That is the gayest thing I've read all day.

Fuck you.

>>8559838
>there is no god
false

>>8562608
I love when people try to casually throw in 4chan lingo while trying to seem smart. I cant wait for it to make it into published philosophy at one point.

>>8559773
are u meming

>>8564598
you write like a cutie <3

>>8564662
I've done this but no one buys anything of mine that gets published.

McCarthy used 'autistic' as an adjective in the Road I think. 'autistic dark', meaning secluded/isolated/unsocial & claustrophobia darkness. Same way as I did even though I hate yetilla with a passion.

It's just l8 capitalism m8.

When you're little you believe that because you live in a liberal democracy the world is your oyster, but when you enter your teenage years you increasingly experience the more underhanded ways that your freedom is taken away from you. Essentially, noncompliance is constantly threatened with disenfranchisement.

At the same time, it takes a long time to develop the vocabulary to express and understand one's own experiences with any degree of precision. Young people perceive there is no escape ("no point") but from what they may not know.

Democracy is congealing into dictatorship and the promise that you can become petty bourgeois looks increasingly remote even for middle class young people.

>>8564710
This is the second gayest thing I've read all day.

Fuck you.

>>8564729
Suck your mum rudeboy.

>>8564637
>>8564681
These are not the reactions I expected.
What do you mean, like a cutie <3?

>>8564778
It means you are a big gay fag and he wants to pound your boipucci into oblivion.

>>8564785
You don't say.

>>8562489
Interesting idea. I agree.

>>8564729
His post wasn't half as cute.

>>8562608
Aurelius was a stoic, not a nihilist. While he accepted the ultimate finality of death, he didn't necessarily consider life meaningless, and he certainly didn't promote a bohemian lifestyle. Anyone who inferred that from Meditations grossly misunderstood the text.

Why does everyone view nihilism as inherently negative? It's really caused me to focus on the best things in my life.

>>8559194
its easy

>>8559194
because modern youth are too stupid and lazy to make sense of the world

When has nihilism not been popular with high school students who believe they're smarter than they actually are

>>8559324
i fucking hate this meme

if you're not a depressed wreck bordering on suicide then you're not a nihilist

>>8559224
Go home Dewey.

Youre right though.

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>>8565172
spooked

>>8564598
This appeals to my sense of the mythological aesthetic

>>8565166
Kurt Cobain was a real adult nihilist.

>>8564684
they're all normies REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8559556
defining faith with a single definition for every religion is pre naive

>>8559224
>Meaning is dedcided by the communtiy.
Wittgenstein, go to bed please. It is past your time.


>>8560016
>Meaning is not decided be community, it exists only within the individual
You too, semantic internalist, ought to go to bed.

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>>8559554
Killing God just removed institution of morality to dictate how we should act. In that vacuum, it's obvious that nihilism would be born. The only way to overcome nihilism is with empathy.

Suicide is boring. The decision itself is the only important part. It's the only decision one can make if you consider everything to be nihilistic because it's the only action that shows you are above nature. But that's if you accept the false premise that you can not extort your will on the world.

Nihilism is bullshit honestly