What do you think of the high culture/low culture divide?

File: girls und panzer.png (262KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 640x360px

>>8552522
False dichotomy in our wondrous post-ironic era.

>>8552522
It denotes a real thing, but something being high culture doesn't automatically make it good or worthwhile or heaven forbid "important" in any way .

AXIOMATIC FACT: Beethoven was THE lowest of the low.

>>8552535
posts with anime images are usually wrong. keep that in mind, OP

File: Weew.png (73KB, 201x226px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 201x226px

>>8552522

Whatever else, it is necessary.

In Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra, there's a part where Zarathustra struggles to come to terms with the fact that "small people need small values." I've started applying that all over the place in real life.

Those for whom all things patrician are out of reach, should naturally have their bread and circuses.

File: best girl.jpg (65KB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 800x450px

>>8552867
Wrongness is also quite dated.

>>8552779
it being an axiomatic fact is a contradiction; facts are proven by axioms. an axiom which proves itself is a tautalogy, and an axiom proven by another axiom is not an axiom.

furthermore, by making your statement an axiom, you construct it as the "ground floor" of your argument. If people do not agree with the assumption, then they're not going to be able to travel anywhere with you. A much more damning critique of Beethoven would be to establish as your axioms, a variety of assumptions which people readily accept and use those to arrive at your conclusion.

An axiom having any "weight" at all is a total misconception of logic

Doesn't exist anymore. Rich people wear sweatpants and watch Netflix.

>>8553124
And poor people sport luxury items purchased on credit; minimalism for the wealthy, extravagance for the poor.

Now, high and low culture revolves around taste and projection, usually bred of authenticity of character; pseuds are rampant, plebs unaware of their own status, and patricians are often just so by mere personhood, passion and apathy joined into the tormented pariah, whether or not his superficial self stands before God and man alike.

It is an old social construct used by rich people in order to maintain a mythical status to the eye of the people whose rebellion they feared.

>>8553138
This. It was just us them mentality but in a culture where the them could not read.

It's natural when you have a legitimate aristocracy, unnatural otherwise. I say "legitimate aristocracy", as in an upper class that is recognised as aristocratic, rather than a de facto upper class comprised of the wealthy like we have, because they don't have any commitment to civilisation like a real aristocracy has, only to wealth.

Where does Ecclesiastic art lie in terms of high / low culture? It was obviously very artistically accomplished (gregorian chant, sacred polyphony, religious painting), but it was not made for the wealthy but for the Church, and was often performed by monks and for monks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mcxEtyEUw4

>>8552522
It's all about market forces, so not to be taken seriously.

>>8553019
And yet you announce best girl to whom is not

>>8553034
>an axiom which proves itself is a tautalogy
...and tautologies are facts: true statements aka theorems, etcetera. you shot yourself in the foot.

what you should have said is that if you define "fact" to mean "true statement" then axioms fall out of this definition because truth is a meta-theoretic relation between statements of the object language on one hand and model-theoretic and meta-theoretic structures on the other, AND NOT something that is applied in object language of which axioms are a part.

but yeah, the guy you're replying to is essentially wrong

Taking it as simply saying that some things are better than others, there is nothing wrong with it.

File: quote-two-things-strike-me-dumb-the-infinite-starry-heavens-and-the-sense-of-right-and-wrong-immanuel-kant-95-69-26.jpg (52KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 850x400px

>>8553214
No need to generalize, anon.

It's more important now than ever before.

>>8553172
it was art in its true form.
To elevate the souls and spirits of a man.

>>8553186
Who is best in your opinion, senpai?

>>8553314
hes saying he's struck dumb in AWE, not that right/wrong is dumb

High Culture exists no more--such is how it is with the tyranny of the middle class. There doesn't even need to be a dominating middle class, but in the tyranny of the middle class, if a poor person writes something, or a rich, it will be judged on extremely egalitarian grounds. Nobody cares who is writing anymore, they only care about the text itself--thanks postmodernism.

There is no novel written now that can not be considered "popular," because it will be bought on Amazon for the same price as your Harry Potter book, just as there is nothing that can be considered high culture, because it will be devoured by everyone all the same.

There is no divide. There is just culture, and it sucks.

>>8553495
sure

File: 1408804529816.gif (2MB, 700x358px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 700x358px

>>8552867
>>8553019
I think his point eluded you both.

>>8553525
The best way to fix this is to split the population in two, perhaps alphabetically.
Only allow those with surnames beginning in, for instance, Y, to have any commodities and to be educated.
Everyone else must work the farms and factories, no exceptions.
That would soon bring back the culture divide, and result in higher quality literature.

>>8553599
>>8553525
*Meant to type luxuries instead of commodities

File: 1408804529812.gif (837KB, 384x269px) Image search: [Google]

837KB, 384x269px

>>8553138
That's actually and obviously not even remotely true in any way whatsoever.

>i'll spend a large part of my personal fortune as an arts patron for the enjoyment and edification of the broad masses
>florence, dresden, any european city between 1500 and now
>lol jk i'm doing it to somehow simultaneously sow and prevent class conflict and revolt from below

Free your mind and the rest will follow.
Once you know high culture, you understand there is no low culture.

File: 1463858169824.jpg (23KB, 400x586px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 400x586px

>>8553642

People with absolutely no critical faculties love the high/low culture divide as it allows someone else to do their thinking for them and tell them what to like.

File: envogue.jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

>>8553658

Was thinking En Vogue but Martin Luther not the King Jr will do

It's all just pearls before swine.

I mean, I'm often surrounded by people who only play video games and watch super hero movies. That's the only entertainment medium they consume. And then there are others who are not quite so bad, but would never go and read books that are discussed on /lit/ for their own enjoyment.

The thing is, some people just cannot appreciate art under any circumstance. They don't have profound or 'spirtual' feelings.

I personally don't know how you can live like that unless you're a child. But that's how it has always been.

irrelevant now the populace is educated and literate

File: image.jpg (110KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 1280x720px

Despite what everyone ITT is saying (it's relative, contexual, historically based) I believe high low culture exists and it's based on meritocracy, and ability is determined, more or less, when the sum of your work is beyond question a work of ability, as opposed to shock/controversy, etc.

Com at me

(Further reading Collingwood's Aesthetic Theory, Heidegger's Origin of the Work of Art)

>>8552522
It disgusts me when people say there is none and then put South Park next to Tarkovsky.
I am sure you can appreciate both in a sense, but there needs to be a separation of entertainment and art. South Park has no value in my eyes, even though I might have enjoyed it as a kid.

>>8554864
>there just... is... guys, please believe me

is there a way to purge this board or get better posters or something

>>8552522
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book)

>>8552522
no, there's not. A Lil B album is the same as Beethoven's 13th string quartet ;^)

>>8552522
it doesn't need to exist

>>8554927
that's not what the question means son

>>8554942
sorry, i'm high

>>8554868
It's not a matter of belief.
Retards want to believe that their comics or video games hold value. They don't.

>>8554957
if they don't hold value then why do they cost money?

>>8554949
DUDE

File: Virginia_Woolf_1927.jpg (754KB, 1263x1843px) Image search: [Google]

754KB, 1263x1843px

>>8552522

The only people overly concerned with "high culture" are middle class, middlebrow types, who are the worst of all.

>hurrr let me read all these books on this list then I can think of myself as Cultured and a Real Intellectual (tm)

Spoiler alert: virtually every single American is middle class, and the ones with intellectual aspirations are almost all middle brows.

File: FUCKINGNERD.jpg (70KB, 770x300px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 770x300px

>>8553136
gtfo pseud

>>8557410
seconded
not an usaer tho

>>8557410
There needs to be some way of distinguishing a genuine truth seeker who happens to currently not have 'high-brow' taste, and the poser who wishes to appear cultured and is happy to bow down to whatever authority allows them to think of themselves as being that.

I don't. Only pseuds and pretentious cunts do.

all of my taste was in the great fire of heighy too, what tragedy oh

File: Slavoj-Zizek-007.jpg (31KB, 460x276px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 460x276px

>>8557410
>virtually every single American is middle class

>>8554927
Lil B is the master of modern ironic satire. True high art.

Beethoven was mediocre; he has many popular, shallow works and very little quality in his less known creations. A hollow meme for casual music enthusiasts. The definition of low art.