Traditionalism

the greeks - /wsr/

>>8490483
What a great picture

>>8490483
>a demon assaulting brave warrior
>not someone trying to feed an ostrich with its head buried in the sand

>>8490486
This may be a bit ironic, but I am looking for more recent literary works as well. I am well aware of Julius Evola. Looking for lesser know titles.

>>8490490
I'm glad you enjoy it.

>>8490498
Sorry the picture is not befitting to your exceptionally high standards.

ideology that positions itself as 'going back' or otherwise going on the defensive is doomed to fail

>>8490507
I especially love that individuality, identity politics, and tradition are looked at as opposites when they aren't. What I enjoy is that it's a devil shooting out buzz words that make a certain crowd uncomfortable who aren't educated at all on what they're talking about socially who want to talk on social issues.

I do enjoy it.

>>8490507

why are you afraid of equality, individualism, and progress

>>8490516
"equality", "individualism", "progress". Went right over your head didn't it?

>>8490509
Great argument. Beautifully written and well substantiated.

>>8490525
>Great argument. Beautifully written and well substantiated.
it doesn't matter because it's true
I'm right wing but traditionalism (as well as conservatism) is a meme

>>8490511
I can't help but feel this is sarcasm.

>>8490529
>I'm right wing
>But right wing ideologies are memes

>>8490483

Remember that traditionalism is not located anywhere on the left/right spectrum you're accustomed to, but is in fact separated from it by the gulf of time, warped beyond recognition in a far off and prior dimension to which we can never return. any attempt at traditionalism today is either found in the backwater of the planet, isolated from the development of the civilization you are posting from, or spellbound to the downward spiral of pastiche, at the bottom of which is the stupid maw of quicksand today calling itself the alt-right.

>>8490525
>Great argument. Beautifully written and well substantiated.

You can't create a society that exists within the material and social contexts of the far past...because we simply don't have them. The only way to accomplish this would be to adapt previous ways into new ways, and I don't see a way of that happening then undercover coercion socially, especially with the internet from groups looking to push things this way or that.

There isn't a way for pure tradition as you're arguing to exist, because there's numerous different contexts we exist in that don't mesh. Society adapted for a reason based upon material conditions. At the moment, not very well however.

>>8490533
>I have sex with women
>but not with dead women

>>8490533
conservatives have always been controlled opposition and traditionalism is a pathetic cry for help
the New Right, neofascism and NRx are all right wing ideologies with potential

>>8490535
>>8490538
>>8490540
And you mean to say there can be no such thing as neo-traditionalism?

>>8490545
And what would you define as neo-traditionalism?

>>8490545
as a personal philosophy yeah sure
as a political project not really
it certainly can't come from Americans though

Traditionalism is mere nostalgia for a mirage.

>>8490545
>And you mean to say there can be no such thing as neo-traditionalism?
>The only way to accomplish this would be to adapt previous ways into new ways, and I don't see a way of that happening then undercover coercion socially, especially with the internet from groups looking to push things this way or that.

I don't see "neo-traditionalism" as a very flawed group of people on the internet working to influence the most needy and helpless on the internet, social outcasts, politically. I don't see it as very brave or admirable, in any sense of what it tries to uphold.

There's one thing you seem to agree upon with the people you hate, though I don't think you fully realize, that chivalry is dead and you want what you want. The contradictory obsession with sex within the frame of neo-traditionalism makes it cult like. Ironically like other traditionalist cults before it

Then again much of these groups wanting to politically influence people in this age are cult like.

>>8490552
*as anything more than a very flawed group of people

I meant.

>>8490483
Check out "global rule 16", it's great

>>8490547
I came here asking for literature about traditionalism. I cannot even attempt a wild guess at what that would entail. I have a feeling you could do though, give it a go?

>>8490548
>as a personal philosophy yeah sure
Fair enough.

>as a political project not really
>it certainly can't come from Americans though

Care to elaborate a little further?

You both seem to be well versed, I do appreciate the discussion. A few recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

>>8490552
So everything is cult?

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>>8490483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism#Further_reading

No fuck off back to /pol/.

>>8490555
Evola fucking hated America
http://www.juliusevola.it/risorse/template.asp?cod=154&cat=EVO&page=16
don't really care about Evola but this essay is spot on and funny as fuck too

>>8490555
>give it a go?

I coudn't possibly do something like that. I asked you to define it since you were the one who first mentioned it, but it appears you just threw it in the air without thinking it through.

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>>8490483
>Hi guys I'm from /pol/
>Praise Kek
>I got btfo the other day
>please do my research for me and give me works that will help others to conform to my onesided racist views
>bonus points if there are graphs so I can shitpost with
>thanks
>trump making America Great Again

>>8490559
No, I didn't say that "everything is a cult", I don't know what you mean by that. I clearly said that organizations within the internet do indeed wish to pull people through manipulation politically. In mostly an ideological internet war, and the most manipulative among them have to sacrifice certain kinds of ideals and embrace contradiction to get to their more obvious goal of influencing people.

The problem is the primary goal here is influencing people. You get drama, backstabbing, people fighting over which is truth and which is not while acting counter to what they say they believe.

I don't see this any more clear than neo-traditionalist and neo-reactionary internet groups and the extreme social justice crowd. It's naturally a cult of worship to convert to a feel good way in an otherwise uncomfortable time.

Your minds are set without understanding the material, but understanding how to buy people into it.

The internet is a game of political influence currently. Most people on 4chan no longer have love for the people within it, or the discussions to be had. This is a non-stop board to convert people into certain ideology, by people who aren't willing to put it to action besides suggest they read the literature.

Political radicalism has lost its spine to the point of converting people via the internet, far sleezier and manipulative than the greasiest used car salesman.

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>>8490511
that boogin should really be called principles of romanticism and the enlightenment

modernism is pro-tradition, and attacks enlightenment notions of progress and equality, at least as ideals, thought the cult of the individual and the cult of the genius are preserved fairly well by modernism

what would you replace them with, spartan rank and file divisionality and the afflatus of the gods as the source of artistic production...

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not another one of these threads please

>>8490585
>what would you replace them with, spartan rank and file divisionality and the afflatus of the gods as the source of artistic production...

I wouldn't. The point I was making was the image itself being silly as fuck to look at.

>>8490565
You sem to be mistaken. I asked whether or not neo-traditionalism could be a thing. I did not assert it as a possibility or that I had it all laid out.

>>8490571
I see that no one can be interested in something.

>>8490574
I see. /lit/ is a cult but not everything is cult. Thanks.

>>8490574
The majority of /pol/ try to convert their family and friends and a lot are successful
You underestimate the redpill, once you swallow it its nearly impossible to return to liberalism

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Archeofuturism - Guillaume Faye

>>8490534
I want a society where citizenship is based on ethnicity, and social status firmly cast in an immobile structure where the holders of larger amounts of capital possess unique privileges codified into law

this will lay the groundwork for a society where families are forced to arrange marriages to maintain/marginally improve their position in the cast hierarchy, that way I won't have to deal with all these snotty sluts using sexual deprivation as a social weapon and can finally get married and thereby get laid

when's it gonna be my time lord, when's it gonna be my time

>>8490601
>I see. /lit/ is a cult but not everything is cult. Thanks.

Again that's not what I'm saying. I'm starting to think you aren't reading what I'm saying.

I didn't say /lit/ is a cult, but political organizations on the internet are more bent on conversion and dominance than the ideology in practice stood for. This solution never works well.

I don't see how you could misinterpret this.

>>8490604
>You underestimate the redpill, once you swallow it its nearly impossible to return to liberalism

Again the word "liberalism" as catch all for leftism. You underestimate the fragility of this as well.

If an unquestioning mind just as easily accepts these things they are very well also able to reject them for the newest fad during whatever controversial bought in, sensationalist time of anger and outrage.

The easier you can convince someone the more you should realize they might not be the best person to find to hold your systems of core beliefs.

You gave them a sales pitch and there isn't much to be done beyond that. It's not a permanent solution.

You care more about conversion into this culture of outrage than to actually look behind the ideology you see and how to put it into practice.

This is all too doomed to be in flux with easily bought people you've convinced.

And using redpill unironically when I'm criticizing that mindset, beyond being cringey itself, doesn't exactly disprove the critique I've made.

>>8490617
kek

>>8490594
I know, I'm asking on behalf of the universe to no one imparticular, your post just happened to be linked up with some earlier thoughts, stay well friend

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>>8490617

>>8490619
I read it. If you examine this thread, you will see tiny bits and pieces of the cult mind radiating outwardly.

>>8490619
I'm not convincing them to believe anything, I'm convincing them to stop believing in the leftist propaganda. Big difference, as they are now immunized against globalist lies. Sit back and enjoy the rise of nationalism

>>8490641
>nationalism
What's in it for me? Just a bunch of flag- worship and ultimately pointless conflicts

>>8490641
>I'm not convincing them to believe anything, I'm convincing them to stop believing in the leftist propaganda

You missed my entire point, and this sentence is an oxymoron.

>>8490652
Your life? Dare I say.... tradition as well?

>>8490483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Hamvas

>>8490652
Higher wages, lower taxes, higher social trust, lower crime, etc.

>>8490672
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>8490683
Not an argument.

>>8490683
Calm down friend. I worry about leftist's blood pressures, they're all so excitable

>>8490672
>nationalism: the cargo cult we all can get behind

>>8490689
I know it's not. But I live in a quite nationalistic country and we certainly don't have "high wages" and "low crime". You're an American, right?

Shite thread desu

>>8490701
Where would that be? Don't see how that is relevant in any way, regardless, yes.

>>8490701
Patriotic people =/= nationalist government

>>8490706
Thanks for your excellent contribution.

>>8490711
It's relevant because you said that nationalism gives you x and y, and I live in a nationalistic country with no x and y.

>>8490712
So which of these two is required for higher wages etc?

>>8490728
That wasn't my post actually. Also, where?

Burke
de Maistre
Schmitt

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i dont wanna start a new thread so im gonna ask here since someone already mentioned him, could someone recommend me necessary reading material from Julius Evola? and maybe some other lesser known works by others?

>>8490559
Yes. Mongulism must be overcome.

>>8490746
Revolt Against the Modern World
Metaphysics of War

>>8490746

You got it anon
Neotchka Nezvanovna is a lesser-known work by someone other than Julius Evola
The Night Inspector is another
So is Destination: Void

Hobbes leviathan is the Bible of traditionalism. Study social contract theory if you want to know what traditions are all about.

>>8490483
You are a joke, but maybe some of these will help you become something more than a walking /pol/ meme.
Plato, Symposium, Laws, Republic, Trial, Meno and Phaedo
Aristotle, Ethics, Politics, Categories, Metaphysics
St Augustine, Confessions, City of God, Political Writings
Thomas Aquinas, Political Writings, Selected Writings
Hilaire Belloc, The Jews, The Servile State, Great Heresies, How the Reformation Happened
G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy Heretics
F. A. Hayek, Law, Legislation and Liberty, A Road to Serfdom
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
Alasdair MacIntyre, After Virtue, Whose Justice Which Rationality, Dependant Rational Animals
Fredrick Copleston, 9 volumes of History of Philosophy
Edward Feser, Aquinas, Scholastic Metaphysics
Elizabeth Anscombe, Collected Philosophical Papers
Karl Schmidt, Political Theology

>>8490784
I'd read Anscombe's Modern Moral Philosophy before MacIntyre's After Virtue

>>8490784
So let me get this straight.

People cannot be interested in learning about certain things? Please explain.

>>8490794
your defensive stance is not helping you

>>8490804
Still no explanation here.

>>8490793
I don't think it's necessary, either way is fine.
But going chronological is a decent choice. MacIntyre thinks academic philosophy is just sophistic wankery so he wrote for everyone.
>>8490794
No, I think your views are a joke and at the moment you are a mouth breathing idiot from /pol/. That may change if you start reading.

>>8490818
Do you not realize I have no stated any views ITT whatsoever? Not one. All I did was ask for information. Congratulations on making baseless assumptions. Truly the epitome of an intellectual.

I'm confused. You seem like you have already decided what you believe and want to read more things confirming your views. Surely it would be more productive to read from a variety of viewpoints and try analyse your views from the perspectives they offer to confirm your views hold water

>>8490829
Complete opposite. That is why I came here, to request information because I figured /lit/ would be able to help. For the most part, I was correct. Aside from being called a mouth breathing idiot, racist, bigot etc., it was very successful and productive.

>>8490829
Having views doesn't mean you completely understand the workings they have, argumentation, reasoning, mindset, answering criticism etc.
Otherwise a platonist would read only the Republic and be done with reading anything ever.
>>8490839
Try not starting threads with dumb pol memes for starters.

>>8490839
Philosophy is so full of referrences and name dropping you honestly have to start with the Greeks and work your way forward. If you don't do that you are acting like a mouth breathing idiot, racist, bigot

>>8490847
Is this seriously about the picture? I picked it at random.

>>8490848
How bigoted of you.

>>8490856
How do you randomly pic a retarded pol meme?
Also, your 'I'm so persecuted' attitude on fucking 4chan is obnoxious.

>>8490483
>finally finished moving in to my freshman dorm
>classes haven't started yet
>guess I better shit post on /lit/

Did your Nietzsche poster survive the move? I hope you didn't crinkle the corners while you were hanging it up over your bed.

>>8490863
Randomly.

Haha, sure thing, pal.

>>8490876
>Nietzsche
>Literally the worst
I love all the assumptions going on here. Some very, very, bright intellectuals on this board.

>>8490884
I know right. The most influential philosopher of the last 150 years is shit. Why can't this board become dedicated to the only ideology we have read. Ride the Tiger bro.

>>8490890
You seem to be under the same misconception as another poster. Perhaps you should have read the thread instead of going full sperg on me. He was shit.

>>8490890
Julius Evola is the only significant thinker since the Protestant "reformation" destroyed society.

>>8490903
How many of his books have you read? What ideas of his do you find shit

>>8490907
Be careful! He is going to bombard you with some very well formulated arguments. Hopefully he spares you the meme arrows.

>>8490907
>society

>>8490908
Reading is for kikes

>>8490914
The most embarrassing thing is that Evola is a magic the gathering indian ooga booga idiot.

>>8490908
I'll spare each of us the trouble. You truly have been bequeathed by the Lord with a vastly superior and exceedingly profound intellect than mine own. You are able to absorb ideas and agree with their fundamental basis, and in doing so, able to to denounce and eliminate all other ideologies; only by the mere power of agreement. This guy sure is on to something, I will follow suit and just find something I like and go with it. No need for anything else.

>>8490928
Nah bro he like is against the global conspiracy stopping me getting a girlfriend. I read an infograph of a muscular dude holding oe of his books trust me

>>8490941
So it is true that reading is for kikes?

>>8490928
Wow. Truly profound. I do not believe I have seen a better argument ever presented in my life. I think I will steal it. Nietzsche is a magic the gathering indian ooga booga idiot. Argument won.

>>8490947
Are you a kike? If not how are you reading this?

good false flag, maybe a bit unrealistic

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>>8490952
Kek the defensiveness of polposters is funny af
They can't even read. Nietzsche is interesting, but Evola as someone who represents traditionalism is a fucking joke for illiterate larpers.
Also, do you understand nobody here is arguing? We are just laughing at you.

>>8490952
>http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/143548.Introduction_to_Magic
>Included in Introduction to Magic are instructions for creating an etheric double, speaking words of power, using fragrances, interacting with entities, and creating a "magical chain." Among the arcane texts translated are the Tibetan teachings of the Thunderbolt Diamond Path, the Mithraic mystery cult's "Grand Papyrus of Paris," and the Greco-Egyptian magical text De Mysteriis. Anyone who has exhausted the possibilities of the mundane world and is ready to take the steps necessary to purify the soul in the light of knowledge and the fire of dedication will find a number of expert mentors here

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>>8490975
If I read Ebola, will I have the ability to magic my dick into being 6" and finding a gf?

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>>8490928
>this person believes in something the vast majority of people nowadays don't believe in, therefore he must be an idiot
the myth of progress got you good buddy

>>8490975
fucking kvlt shit
>>8490974
STFU cucklord <__<

>>8490984
Maybe, Read some of Crowley too just to be sure.

>>8490985
I don't believe in progress retarded polfag.
In fact I'm very conservative. I just think you race obsessed morons are annoying larpers who dream of crusades from their mother's comfy basements.

>>8490974
>Also, do you understand nobody here is arguing?
You are arguing but you don't realize it, which is part of why you're making such poor arguments.

>>8490974
Very good. I am most pleased you can all have a hearty kek. I've seen no legitimate reason why, merely speculation and assumptions. Again, truly the level of intellectualism present on this board is quite astounding. If I didn't know any better I'd believe I was actually on /pol/.

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>>8490999
>>8491000

>>8490974
>>8490999
kek get shit on

>>8491000
Why don't you try calling me a cuck?
Or considering the point of the thread, copy and paste the authors and 20+ works you got recommended, paste it on /pol/ and stick to your containment board.

>>8490999
>>8491000
redpill me on the mystic powers of repeating numbers

>>8491016
Read Evola and smoke weed bro

>>8490974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqqXRvBomjs

>>8491023
This is fucking brilliant

>>8491016
Despise Nietzsche. Come to /lit/ and be accused of several things based on nothing. Refrain from using the word cuck. Expose the massive fraud and tomfoolery of pseuds present on /lit/. Pretend the """"arguments"""" presented are actually arguments and praise them for their incredible wit.

>>8491049
>Despise Nietzsche
Why do you despise someone who is arguably a traditionist?

>>8490604
fuck right off to your cesspool, I'm ashamed to share a board with people who use "redpill" unironically

>>8491060
Shut up you bigot.

>>8491055
10/10 you got me with this one.

>>8491064
Which of his views are anti traditionalist then?

>>8491069
Which of them are?

>inb4 like dude are YOU KIDDING ME literally all of them

Just read Meditations and stop being a nigger faggot.

>>8491060
It's pretty laughable how American polfags want traditionalism and hate liberalism and they don't even realise the tradition of their country is based on liberalism, mostly from Locke.
>>8491075
Anti egalitarian sentiment, disdain for Marxism, French Revolution, dislike of protestantism.

>>8491082
>Anti egalitarian sentiment
He doesn't though
>dislike of protestantism.
Not anymore than Catholisism. A stupid thing to critisise an aetheist with really

>>8491082
>I have never read Nietzsche in my life
>the post

>>8490551
Woah so deep woah poetry dude wowwow

>>8491121
dude smoke weed bro am i right

>>8491121
Welcome to /lit/: /lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc.

>>8491101
He links egalitarian sentiment to Christianity and it flows naturally from him. After all, that is the modern slave morality.
Atheists don't need to have a dislike of religion. It's not really a given.
The“Christian ideal”:… attempt to make the virtues through which happiness is possible for the lowliest into the standard ideal of all values…(185)


Through Christianity, the individual was made so important, so absolute, that he could no longer be sacrificed: but the species endures only through human sacrifice -- All souls become “equal” before God: but this is precisely the most dangerous of all possible evaluations! If one regards individuals as equal, one calls the species into question, one encourages a way of life that leads to the ruin of the species: Christianity is the counterprinciple to the principle ofselection…


This universal love of men is in practice thepreferencefor the suffering, underprivileged, degenerate: it has in fact lowered and weakened the strength, the responsibility, the lofty duty to sacrifice men.(246)


What is it we combat in Christianity? That it wants to break the strong… (252)


And inThe AntichristNietzsche famously says:


What is good? Everything that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself.


What is bad? Everything that is born of weakness.


What is happiness? The feeling that power isgrowing, that resistance is overcome.


Not contentedness but more power; not peace but war; not virtue but fitness (Renaissance virtue,virtu, virtue that is moraline-free).


The weak and the failures shall perish: first principle ofourlove of man. And they shall even be given every possible assistance.


What is more harmful than any vice? Active pity for all the failures and all the weak: Christianity.(The Portable Nietzsche, p. 570)


The “equality of souls before God,” this falsehood, thispretextfor the rancor of all the base-minded, this explosive of a concept which eventually became revolution, modern idea, and the principle of decline of the whole order of society -- is Christiandynamite. (p. 655)

U]tilitarianism (socialism, democracy) criticizes the origin of moral evaluations, but itbelievesthem just as much as the Christian does. (Naiveté: as if morality could survive when theGodwho sanctions it is missing!…) (The Will to Power253)

[P]reachers of equality and tarantulas… are sitting in their holes, these poisonous spiders, with their backs turned on life, they speak in favor of life, but only because they wish to hurt. They wish to hurt those who now have power…


I do not wish to be mixed up and confused with these preachers of equality. For, tomejustice speaks thus: “Men are not equal.” Nor shall they become equal!...

>>8491127
Why was Lovecraft so good?

>>8490746
Look into René Guénon and perhaps Alain de Benoist

Let me start off this letter saying I don't like you

Scared of you but I will fight you

I stare at the ceiling and think about you

Curiosity killing me, thinking of when I shall meet you

>>8491140
I used to think that too then I read an article by Steven King and now I thik he is shit

>>8491144
top meme my friend.

>>8490617
So, India?

>>8490574
Very well written, thank you for sharing. Honestly I've had similar reservations regarding the development of neo-reactionaries over the last few years. It seems that /pol/ memes have spread out and taken over the few places where people were legitimately concerned with a right wing ideology.

Do you think that the problem was always there from the beginning, though? I definitely don't see much if any of it in Mencius' early writings. And if the movement was always corrupted by a need to win converts which limits its ability to stay intellectually honest, how is it different from any other ideological movement? How could a movement avoid this pitfall?

>>8490574
>>8491501

Comparing the normies from two groups is missing the point.

Personally as an NRx I'll tell you right away nobody with a high IQ would ever waste their time moderating an internet forum.
Therefore you should only judge an internet movement by the quality of solo run blogs.
NRx had moldbug, Land, and a bunch of sometimes okay alt-right opinion blogs. As well as discussion of science and economics related to NRx. There is a wide array of thought and jokes are not used to enforce the correct thinking.

The left has the cathedral, muh feels tumbler blogs and the most rational tend to be left wing witch hunt blogs DESU. Jokes are policed heavily and ideology is almost uniform


According alt right/ NRx as becoming corrupt in order to win is asinine seeing as they argue elitist quality in almost all things, even unchangeable

>>8491589
Personally I see the alt right and NRx as two distinct movements/groups which find common ground in their opposition to the current trends.
The NRx accurately diagnosed the situation as the cathedral running things and shows a causal link. Their movement is intellectual and therefore able to fight the cathedral through legitimate discussions. They are also able to propose reasonable solutions to the problem.
The alt right is what happens when you remove the intellectual component from the opposition to the left's dominance. Not only are you unable to adequately understand the situation (they see muslims/mexicans as the enemy instead of merely the tool of the enemy - the brahmins), they can't even talk about the situation. They have to fight the left's memeric dominance through the most base means - literal memes.

>>8491082

also a strong emphasis on not letting society tell you what to do and determining your own path in life - so traditional

>>8491082
>hate liberalism
They hate American liberalism, not classical liberalism, which America was founded on.

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>>8490585
>modernism is pro-tradition
>modernism
>pro-tradition
>pro
>tradition
>modernism

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Modernism was literally Make It New, the Meme

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>Enlightenment ideals=Modernism

>>8490617

such a society has become impossible, is my point.

>>8491767
You're a goddamned retard. Read Pound and Eliot's letters and essays, Tradition and the Individual Talent by the latter especially.

Ezra Pound:

>I resolved that at thirty I would know more about poetry than any man living...

Guy learned a ton of languages and read everything.

I don't understand how you can actually define yourself as traditionalist or progressive.

Ignoring how generally pointless it is to advocate for social regression on a large scale, how can you have a general comprehensive stance regarding new ideas or advancements? How can you actually state that most progress is good or most progress is bad? I can understand having traditional or progressive views, I don't understand wanting to BE a traditionalist or progressivist.

>>8490483
SPOOKS

>>8491701
American liberalism is classical liberalism.

>>8492086
"Modern liberalism" then, I was trying to distinguish American and European usage of the word Liberalism.

>>8492025
Both come from the same sentiment, they hate the current state of things.
So they advocate from one or another.
They want to BE one or another because dont manage to understand the implications of such ideologies like you say.

>>8490483
>What are the most necessary pieces of literature concerning traditionalism which must be read in order to become well acquainted with the fundamental properties it is built upon?
>fundamental properties it is built upon

You are a pretentious twat. I can tell because of your abuse of the noble Anglo tongue in a desperate attempt to sound educated.

>>8490483
fucking embarrassing

>>8490483
If you have to find tradition it's already too late. Luckily that is the ideal.

>>8490483
It's been just under two thousand years since the height of the Roman Empire. This bizarre nostalgia that so many on /his/ have for a failed empire can only exemplify a profound strain of stupidity.

>>8492287
> can only exemplify a profound strain of stupidity.
See >>8492123

Wank

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>>8492292
The sentence works autism-anon

>>8490741
are you talking about Carl Schmitt?

>>8492287
>CMON IT'S [CURRENT YEAR]
Nice logic.

>>8492323
What I meant was that it's fairly silly to begin your post with a picture that appears to use an (ancient) Roman soldier as the representation of what you presumably consider to be your ideal citizen/man/ etc. More importantly, it brings up further questions of what you're looking for, and what traditionalism actually means to you. Do you really consider the Roman Empire to be the height of man's creativity, and that it was all down hill from there? What exactly are you looking for? What are your personal ideas regarding society?

>>8492341
Why stop there? Why not destroy everything that wasn't pertaining to the ancient Sumerians, and force everyone to abandon their own Gods in place of some dude wearing a Sheep-mask?

>>8492123
And you are a brain washed baboon.

>>8491653
Yes, but that being said alt-right are the wardogs of NRx, as 3rd worlders are the wardogs of the cathedral

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>>8490589
>(You)

>>8490617
I too long for a quasi-feudalistic society a la Dune.

>>8490617
Why would you want to be a peasant?

That sounds pretty masochistic, anon.

>>8490694
>excitable is bad
You are poorly imitating the conservative.

This entire thread has been a shitshow from start to finish on both sides. Bravo /lit/ and /pol/. I can't even distinguish the serious comments from the irony.

>>8490617
lmaoooooooooooooooooo baka niggy

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ITT: Americans

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>>8490498
Underrated post

>>8492861
>>8490498
How are the traditionalists the ones with their heads buried in the sand? It's the progressives who are shying away from the rapidly declining birthrate and the damage the migrant crisis is causing.

>>8492866
>>/pol/ pls go

Only right wing ideology I might get behind, is futurism.

>>8492808
It's been a great thread. Should happen more often desu senpai

>>8492808
Welcome to the new 4chan m8.
I kind of lost hope of it going back to at least pre-gamergate, where it wasn't the go to place for people to be their special brand of right-wing on the internet.

Remember when 4chan was mostly apolitical?

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>>8492911
>Remember when 4chan was mostly apolitical?
Memes with Obama instead of Trump is not 'apolitical'

>>8492889
Quality rebuttal.
>>8492911
The fappening was the bullet in the brain and gamergate was the final nail in the coffin.
>mostly apolitical
Yeah. There was still lots of shilling from both sides but the majority of people didn't take that shit seriously and would just laugh them off.

>>8492926
I don't remember it being shitposted as hard as it is now.

I do remember Ron Paul bandwagon, and the now legendary "Did Romney already lost..."

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Speaking of, is there any literature on "novelty traditions?"

>>8492934
>Ron Paul bandwagon
He ran in 2008 and 2012

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>>8492866
>>8490498
>>8492861

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>>8492957

>You took the time to make this
>You will possibly deny that you made it

>>8492959
I take great pride in having made it

>>8491082
Classical liberalism was about small government, modern liberals want an invreasingly larger government. Conservatives want to preserve the founding then-liberal values of the republic

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>>8492957
>this is what some /lit/sters actually believe

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>>8492964
>Don't mention a word about religion
>Assblasted man hurries to post MUH RELIGION.jpg

who could have guessed?

>>8492957
>science

>>8492972
Way to be a very observant individual, you fucking pleb.

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>>8492979
It's just getting better post by post

>>8492957
Why is post-modernity missing?

>>8492983
gys

>>8492961

I for one appreciate it (I'm >>8490498 btw)
There are of course values etc. shared by both sides, and it's unfortunate that the discussion rarely moves past anger and division

>>8492963
>Classical liberalism was about small government, modern liberals want an invreasingly larger government. Conservatives want to preserve the founding then-liberal values of the republic

Liberalism in its youth was a critic of feudalism, it was concerned with the form and function not "size" [that's a very modern term found in neoliberal discourse not the works of someone like Locke or Smith] of political government and private corporations and the limits which should be assigned to preserve individual [not corporate] liberty.
The crude form of neoliberalism that modern "conservatives" align themselves with is in a very little way associated with this tradition of individual liberty... instead they are oriented primarily towards legitimating all private institutional actions without consideration of the general welfare and guaranteeing safety and security for corporations even at the expense of individuals.

Take the following quote from Thomas Jefferson:
>If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
This is classical liberalism and it was concerned with power and how when it is not strongly controlled it becomes a danger to the public at large.

>>8493037
They knew that the most dangerous power of all was the government, hence the seperation of exec legislative and judicial powers, hence the rule against income tax. The founding fathers would have been totally opposed to the modern welfare state

>>8493051
Of course in the final analysis government, in theory any ways, possess the most power and therefore must be the most controlled and constrained but liberalism was a response to feudalism and it's directly responsible for the modern nation state.
Also the federal income tax was crafted by neoclassical economic advisers to the government as a reactionary elitist response to Henry George and the populist single tax movement.
The "founding fathers" were a diverse group and depending on what exactly you mean by a "welfare state" some of them would have supported something of the sort, like Thomas Paine:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/thomas-paine-american-revolution-common-sense/

>>8492660
Fair enough, they're fighting the good fight on the front lines. And they're holding their own against the peasant hordes, which is impressive given their recent origins.
But they can't/haven't been able to adequately fight the left's intellectual wing. That task falls to the NRx, which thus far has been largely unsuccessful. I hold out hope, but without capturing a chunk of the mainstream media I don't see how the cause can move forward.
Also, the NRx hasn't been doing its job of steering the alt right. Instead the opposite has been happening. If your war dog walks you then you're going to go down some bad roads

>>8493051
They were also slave owners that couldn't follow the moral imperative of their own project, who gives a fuck what they thought was best? Are we supposed to live in a constant LARP of 1776?

Dumb fucking Americans

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>>8493092
>Fair enough, they're fighting the good fight on the front lines.
>a horde of manchildren living on the internet making careers of calling people "cucks" is anon's idea of "fighting the good fight on the front lines"
>anon is so fucking stupid he thinks the west isn't 100% controlled by the right

>>8492931
>fappening
>before gamergate
hello newfag

>>8493117
It's even worse than that. I'm pretty convinced that the west is about 100% controlled by the left. Can you point me to anywhere that'll show me how the right is running things?

>>8492957
I can't tell if this is making fun of "modernists" and traditionalists at the same time.

>>8493500

there is no left and right anymore, dipshit. there are only corporate oligarchs and the rest of us being played off against one another with this "left" and "right" bullshit.

redpill me on festering nigger diarrhea

>>8493898
You got me :-)

>>8492911
I think it's always been pretty right wing. Remember /new/?

I'd argue that 4chan is (or was) subversive and to be subversive in the early 21st century west, you must be radically right wing. Libertarianism won't cut it; it plays into the hegemonic globalism. And radical leftism plays into hegemonic statism. The truly subversive position is both anti-left and anti-globalization, which of course leaves only the radical right.

Or more simply: who's name is synonymous with evil? Hitler. Whatever he stood for is what the system fears the most. As a jew I'm ok with this.

>>8493928
>As a jew I'm ok with this.

I understand your lack of foresight.

>>8492911
>it's been 2 years since gamergate

In all seriousness, I'm genuinely unsure where gamergate fits, if it does at all, into the alt-right/NRx/backlash. The anti's maintain it's a bunch of neo-Nazi's, of course, but a lot of alt-right people (some of them do call themselves that) maintain gg was still leftist and it can be interpreted as having multiple goals. I still think it was mostly a revolt against an incestuous indie hipster clique, for instance.

>>8493928
4chan, and the internet in general, was always contrarian in more immediate matters; remember when everyone joked about Faux News and hated Bush? Things like /new/ were contrarian on a larger scale (i.e. being neo-Nazi's and at odds with the liberal tradition), and that's gonna continue as long as the west maintains its general current character, but the current wave is going to die down if Trump gets elected (if Hillary gets elected, on the other hand, the anti-SJW train is gonna hit 88 mph).

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>>8490483
READ THIS ESPECIALLY, OP
https://www.amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism/dp/1587314525

It will explain why modernism is basically a rejection of reality. The early moderns set out to create an earthly utopia, but in order to manage this they needed to uproot the authority of church and tradition. To do this they denied fundamental aspects of the then-standard view of change, which was rooted in Aristotelian metaphysics, in favor of one that took only efficient and material causation into consideration, thus favoring a mechanistic view of the universe. Though at face these changes seem trivial, the book will show why they have been so disastrous and in the words of one writer: "The real turning point between the medieval age of faith and the modern age of unfaith came when the scientists of the seventeenth century turned their backs upon what used to be called “final causes”. . .

>>8495861
[belief in which] was not the invention of Christianity [but] was basic to the whole of Western civilization, whether in the ancient pagan world or in Christendom, from the time of Socrates to the rise of science in the seventeenth century. . . . They did this on the ground that inquiry into purposes is useless for what science aims at: namely, the prediction and control of events. . . . The conception of purpose in the world was ignored and frowned upon. This, though silent and almost unnoticed, was the greatest revolution in human history, far outweighing in importance any of the political revolutions whose thunder has reverberated through the world. . . . The world, according to this new picture, is purposeless, senseless, meaningless. Nature is nothing but matter in motion. The motions of matter are governed, not by any purpose, but by blind forces and laws. . . . [But] if the scheme of things is purposeless and meaningless, then the life of man is purposeless and meaningless too. Everything is futile, all effort is in the end worthless. A man may, of course, still pursue disconnected ends, money, fame, art, science, and may gain pleasure from them. But his life is hollow at the center. Hence, the dissatisfied, disillusioned, restless, spirit of modern man. . . . Along with the ruin of the religious vision there went the ruin of moral principles and indeed of all values. . . . If our moral rules do not proceed from something outside us in the nature of the universe – whether we say it is God or simply the universe itself – then they must be our own inventions. Thus it came to be believed that moral rules must be merely an expression of our own likes and dislikes. But likes and dislikes are notoriously variable. What pleases one man, people or culture, displeases another. Therefore, morals are wholly relative."

>>8492964
Scientists do sometimes enter into philosophy and religion. But often the tracts they produce are just embarrassingly naive; thinking themselves hot shit, but really just giving answers already discovered and rejected years ago. Study and understanding in one area, it doesn't necessarily mean you know much about another.

>>8491840
>such a society has become impossible, is my point.
Except in pretty much every non-western country.

>>8490652
>>What's in it for me?
What's in it for you in globalism?

>>8493928
>As a jew I'm ok with this.
So what's your plan when everyone adopts the religion that literally hates you more than Hitler could ever have dreamed of? Just wondering.

>>8490652
patriotism, sick bantz, and good times with the lads during large scale conflict

>>8490534
Bulius Ebola, yuou are drunk.

>>8496225
the marvel cinematic universe

>>8490610
>Guillaume Faye
>thinks that Europe and Russia should cooperate

Sir Roger Scruton
Joseph de Maistre
Edmund Burke (Maistre's inferior non-union British equivalent)

>>8490784
/thread

>>8490483
jeremy commonforth - the urine tapes

ITT: Very good book recommendations and teenagers who read Evola's wiki page

>>8496607

Maistre was an extreme Catholocuck. Burke was more reasonable.

I've always thought it was weird how those 2 got paired. They're not really similar.