Your favourite war related book?

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>>8480164

I'm looking for something Storm of Steel like but WW2 and the eastern front and can be from a Ruskie or German prospective.

All Quiet is my all time, but Dispatches (though hardly a book) also gets me.

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>>8480164

For whom the bells toll

>>8480774
Stalingrad by Theodor Plievier
and
For the Right Cause / Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman

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Any of you read this? Is it worth a damn?

>>8480906
holy shit. it's so fucking boring. no fighting actually occurs. it's about the mental toll of not fighting. the closest they get to fighting is having someone shoot at them at night and they can't see them. total snooze fest.

>>8480164
Journey To The End of The Night. Celine shits on Junger in that one.

>>8480928
Really? In what way?

>>8480906
It's one of my all-time favorites, though in admittedly not an expert of war lit. Some of the best characters in any novel ever.

>>8480774

It's not quite like Storm of Steel (in that it's not a first hand account) but Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor is a really good book.

Dispatches
Journey to the End of the Night
The Thin Red Line
The Naked and the Dead

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Are there any good war books that aren't just " dude war is like le so bad!!" It doesn't have to be pro war I'd be fine with war just being a necessary unavoidable thing in the story.

>>8481284
war & peace

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>>8480774
Will you accept Finns?

>>8481287
I don't know enough about literature to know if you're trying to meme. But I'm still a total pleb and I've been afraid to start a book of that caliber because I'm afraid I might dislike it because I don't fully understand it

>>8481298
OP's book isn't anti-war. Junger was excited to go to war at the start. But most are anti-war because war is a situation where you lose all your brothers within a few days - I don't get why you want to read simply to reinforce your views.

>>8480774

Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer is pretty good if you are willing to look past the obvious and well-documented problems the book has

>He gets enough minor details wrong to question his authority
>There's no corroborating evidence that he was actually who he claims to be
>He's French

But the human experience of fighting on the eastern front is pretty well captured according to people who are supposed to know those kind of things.

>>8481302
I don't want to reinforce my views. I don't have any particular view on war. I would actually prefer a book that doesn't have a view on war either; it just shows the war and what happens without trying to spoonfeed me how war is good or bad.

>>8481311
Then Storm of Steel is what you want. All it is is Junger's memories of war from his notebooks at the time. He voices absolutely no opinions except those from his young self.

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>>8481284
Unabashedly pro-Vietnam

I've read a lot of war books, and it seems like the ones that are written by soldiers tend to be anti-war. If I die in a Combat Zone, Matterhorn, Fireforce by Cocks (lol), and even Junger's later books are anti-war, or at least anti modern war.

>>8481316
Thanks you friend

>>8481319
War isn't a particularly pleasant experience by those who actually take part in it huh

>>8481319
this guy wasn't even in vietnam, he was just an air gunner in WW2
seems like a phony tbqh

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>>8481322
Even Junger's typical self-insert in On the Marble Cliffs just wants to live on the cliffs and hang out with his priest-botanist bud.

>>8481324
yup, the book is a sham and propaganda.

pic related, a pro-war but highly critical hit piece on the leadership in Vietnam

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>>8481311
Laugh, laugh at the French.

>>8481316
>is is

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Reading it now.

>>8481302
>give me something that eschews the mainstream narrative of topic X!

>hurr durr your just confirming your biases. brb gonna buy some diet pepsi and a copy of the new york times.

>>8481335

Not him, but a) that was perfectly grammatical and/or b) something something meme/bait

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Dispatches is the good shit. Also Chickenhawk (Huey pilot's POV) and Dear Mom (top Marine sniper POV)

Any other recommended Nam accounts? Gonna check out If I Die In A Combat Zone next

Band of brothers

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anyone read Achilles in Vietnam or Odysseus in America?

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>>8480164
Great book.

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has anyone ever read any good Soviet-Afghanistan war books?

pic related and The Great Gamble are two that I picked up from Half Priced Books, but I had no prior knowledge of them/

>>8481585
Also, does anyone know of any Chechen war books/memoirs?

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Very good memoir on the Bosnian war. A bit biased because the journalist was usually on the Bosniak side, but very well written and engaging. Unfortunately he adds a chapter about some drug issues, which I didn't care for, but still a wonderful read.

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Besides the Iliad, which has already been mentioned, pic related.

>>8481699
One of the best books on the air war over North Vietnam. Has a great part where he describes the near suicidal ROEs that US pilots had to endure.

Are there any good reads about modern wars?

>>8480906
Fug. :DDDD

>>8481311
You don't want to read War and Peace then. Tolstoy is the master of the narrator forcing his views on you.

>>8480164
The Cannibal by John Hawkes. I have never read a novel so aware of such atmosphere. Its closer to a dream than a real novel. Wonderful!

>>8480164
Thucydides is absolutely incredible.
But it is from a political military history perspective.

If you want Military History in campaigns, Caesar is the classic.

Another is the Campaigns of Hernan Cortes in The Conquest of Mexico by Prescott.

The Conquistadors were literally incredible. A few hundred rag tag troops vs literally millions of natives. The immense loneliness, courage and daring of it deserves a grand epic.

No one has ever told the tragic epic of Napoleon either, despite his deserving nature for it. He was such a cursed, driven and flawed genius, yet no one has tried to write an Aeneid of his epic.

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10/10

>>8480164

Homage to Catalonia.

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>>8482363
Have you read pic related?

>>8481284
Storm of Steel

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Pic related. It's based on the author's diary notes written fighting for the Wehrmacht on the Eastern front. Starts off with him being assigned to run food and supplies to soldiers staked out in various buildings in Stalingrad, then goes on to cover the arduous retreat back to Germany.

Does anyone have any recommendations on the subjects of

-The Spanish Civil War
-The Bosnian War
-The First and Second Congo Wars
?

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Loved it

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>>8482473
Good stuff.

>>8482193
Conquistadors are a taboo subject, you can expect it as much as an epic about SS.

>>8481305
Lately people have more relaxed opinions about certain facts surrounding the book, and there were a number of Alsatians in the Wehrmacht

>>8482510
Probably one of my favorite history books. Pretty rough to read, but still.

>>8481709
Yes, definitely. In fact if the "home" chapters are skipped entirely, it will have little bearing on the war sections, iirc.

>>8482526
Are they still? Would have thought enough time had passed. Interesting.

>>8483030
They are Catholics and America is massively into colonial guilt trip and whatever America is into everyone else is.

>>8483030
Just look what happens every time Colombus day rolls around.

>>8480164

Battle Cry of Freedom
Killer Angels
Life and Fate
Dispatches

>>8483030
This isn't simply a matter of "too soon", it's the problem of making them into heroes when the general populace considers them anything but

>>8483056
>>8483312
>>8483333
But the entire reason for that hatre is because the self hating guilt ridden left has been allowed to revise and ruin their memory. Their memory should be revived and rebirthed, with a glory to smash the marxist agitation of historic grievance.

Remember that Oliver Cromwell was absolutely despised before Thomas Carlyle redeemed him.

If anything, it is a story awaiting a virgil.

>>8480164
In Parenthesis by David Jones. A masterpiece of prose. Up there with Joyce

>>8484177
There have been nationalist riots about Cortes since the reign of Porfirio Diaz. He is the definitive peninsular asshole.

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>>8480164

Gravity's Rainbow is the ultimate war book.

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Audiobook version narrated by Bryan Cranston was 11/10

>>8481591

One Soldier's War by Arkady Babchenko is a must read on the Chechen wars.

War and Peace my man.

How can anything else even compete?

>>8482483
Jarhead just has to be quality stuff.

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Sienkewicz is the man

War is a Racket is the best book on war.

>>8486822
He really is.

Really weird how noone posted Blood on The Risers by John Leppelman, a great book, no-bullshit account on the war, skips all trivialities, very engaging, would recommend

Either
>Catch 22
>The Things They Carried

I see a lot of people mentioning Tim O'Brien. I've only read The Things They Carried, but I really liked it. What did you guys think of it? How does it compare to his other stuff?

>>8481542
The Twenty-Five Year Century: A South Vietnamese General Remembers the Indochina War to the Fall of Saigon , ARVN life and death in the south vietnamese army & street without joy.

>>8488047
Black April: The Fall of South Vietnam, 1973-75 is also good, if not depressing.

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Just got this, was it worth it in /lit/'s opinion?

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>>8482473
Spanish Civil War with L'Espoir (Malraux).

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>>8482357

This desu

All of Beevor's books are pretty great. Have not read his book on Paris though. His Berlin 1945 book does a good job of portraying the suffering of the city's population and generally the atmosphere (The Gallows humour and the fact that teenager girls were all trying to get laid to lose their virginity to a German boy before being raped by Soviets) as well as the military aspects of the battle. It also remains pretty balanced and doesnt act as an apologist for Nazi crimes just because the Soviets were also brutal whilst the civillians and their suffering remain at the heart of the book

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>>8487552

>One thing I've noticed in reading these kinds of books is that the British spend an inordinate amount of time drinking tea when they go to war.

All British soldiers are given Brew kits so they can make Tea whenever they have a short break and all Tanks and APCs are required to have an electric kettle built in to make Tea. It used as a way to keep up morale (so Veterans have told me) so they can do something familiar to help keep their sanity when under pressure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel

>>8487552

>not ready for a nice cuppa to raise your morale

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Not my favorite, but this is the last war book I remember reading. Has anyone else read it?

I haven't read any war books that I could count as one of my favorite books of all time. The closest I got to that was Celine's first novel, but I can't say war was the primary theme.

Is OP's book any good? I borrowed it from the library but had to return it due to some other pressing needs at the time.

>>8489149
I've read le feu. It was alright. I preferred Junger desu. You should give it another try.

>>8489239
I couldn't tell the difference between most of the characters and found myself skimming through most of it (le feu). I'll give the Junger a go some day. I've always found his bio interesting. For some reason, I feel a draw to writers who lived to be really old.

>>8489254
I don't know that much about your tastes, obviously, and I was engaged by Le Feu, but personally I do think Junger's book was a lot more interesting and I felt much more attached to the characters.

You can definitely feel the old man looking back at his young innocence through the pages of the book if you read any of the later editions (which is the standard).

>>8489284
It could have been the old translation on gutenberg. I was annoyed that the translator preserved the French syntax so much.

Did Junger alter the text in future editions as he got older or did he just add new introductions?

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Sadly this has nott been translated.

>>8489292
Ah, I can understand why that would be difficult. I am a native French speaker, so I can't speak for quality translations of it, but I'm sure gutenberg is not one.

He altered the text. In fact, I don't remember if there was any real introduction at all. I think the standard version that people read is from like the 50s or the early 60s now. The edits were most significant in the first few editions when he basically rewrote it in the 20s, but there are still some changes with each edition. Forgive me if I'm wrong in any of this, it's been around a year since I read it.

>>8489294
What's it about? Is it Finnish?

>>8489298
Oh, cool. I can read French poetry all right in the original due to its brevity, but I can't handle a whole novel. One of the worst things I find in translated French prose is when they preserve too many Gallicisms, for example, people saying things such as "The weather does well, is it not?" in novels. That's how bad the translation was. More the translator's fault than Barbusse, obviously. Just curious, are you French? I just went to Paris for the first time two months ago and had a great time. It took awhile to get used to speaking French, but towards the end I got the hang of it.

>>8489317
Yeah, I am from La Rochelle, in the west of France.

That is a strange thing to do, but I don't really know much about theories of translation and whether or not that's on purpose or just bad translations.

Paris is beautiful! Glad you had a good time! Unfortunately I've only visited twice, and once I was too young to remember, so we're in the same position. Where are you from?

As a lover of french literature I would say you should work on that, because you're missing out, but our poetry is fantastic too, and it's much harder to translate poems than books, so you have the most important skill.

>>8482357
>>8488576
>''''''literature'''''' written by a military historian
Do you have to be a cancerous, shit-eating /k/-faggot to enjoy this stuff?

>>8489317
>>8489335
if you are interested in trying to get into french literature in french though, I would recommend trying some Balzac. I think he is not particularly difficult in terms of vocabulary or grammar and writes fairly short works.

>>8489341

Not really. Its good quality popular history it doesnt get too into the whole formations too much and shit but manages to add in a good number of anecdotes about the soldiers personal experiences (like the mass evacuation of Germans and the retreat of the 9th and 12th German armies) so it isnt a dry read. You obviously wont enjoy it if you dont like reading about 20th century battles though

>>8489335
Cool, how do you like La Rochelle? I'm in San Diego. We're about 90 minutes south of Los Angeles if you aren't delayed by traffic, which there often is. I prefer these cities to most of the US but we get a bad rap from everybody outside of California. Their loss.

Yeah, it's just overwhelming to read a foreign language for so long, knowing I could get a cheap fix through a translation. I did manage to get through half of Soumission by Houellebecq before the English translation came out, so I'm pretty proud of that. I found the contemporary French much easier than the time I tried to read Stendhal.

>>8489345
I'll have a look at Balzac. My brother is always calling everyone a Rastignac.

The Things They Carried

>>8480927
Better stick to your Tom Clancy books, faggot.

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With The Old Breed by E.B Sledge

It paints war as something horrible but also a just cause that can be something superbly honorable. It makes you value the role of the military

>>8486346
>>8487981
>>8487988
>>8489370
>First Lieutenant Jimmy Cross carried letters from a girl named
Martha, a junior at Mount Sebastian College in New Jersey. They were
not love letters, but Lieutenant Cross was hoping, so he kept them folded
in plastic at the bottom of his rucksack. In the late afternoon, after a day's march, he would dig his foxhole, wash his hands under a canteen, unwrap the letters, hold them with the tips of his fingers, and spend the last hour of light pretending. He would imagine romantic camping trips into the White Mountains in New Hampshire. He would sometimes taste the envelope flaps, knowing her tongue had been there.

2bh pham, one of the best opening paragraphs in literary history.

>>8489317
It's about a theologian serving as a lieutenant in recon/commando forces during the continuation war, based on the author's own experiences. It caused a scandal because it depicted the war in a pessimistic light, in contrast to the heroic image some conservative people were trying to push (biggest uproar rose due to the portrayal of women: instead of being unselfish angels, they were rude and gave sexual favors to officers etc.). There's also a film based on it ("Sissit") directed by Mikko Niskanen, one of the greatest Finnish directors of all time. I found a torrent, but I am not aware if there are english subtitles available.

>>8489593
I'll see about getting the film. I've done all right with interlibrary loans. The only Finnish director I've seen before is Aki Kaurismaki. I liked his films a lot so I'm looking forward to that film. Cheers, Finnbro.

>>8489593
Damn. Not a single thing turned up. I'll look into torrenting or something like that. I'll make a note of the writer and director. I would really love to read more about the Winter War from the Finnish perspective.

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>>8485637
A sympathetic novel about the SS would be on par with a sympathetic novel about the Hutu genocidaires. Nothing like a stirring epic about the Einsatzgruppen with no moralizing.

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>>8489640
That said, this is a pretty decent one about some young SS recruits later in the war.

>>8489335
Not the guy you are talking to but have you read Drieu la rochelle's wartime writings? He was acquainted with Junger in Paris. I plan to read his Comedy of Charleroi

>>8489640
Your pic related is an amazing book, I keep on recommending it here

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There has been quite a few memoirs released by Irish Nationalist fighters in the last century but perhaps the most literary one is Ernie O'Malley, his "On Another Man's Wound" which partly inspired Ken Loach's Wind That Shakes the Barley. He fell in the Taos art Colony in his exile in New Mexico.

Brenden Behan's Borstal Boy is another good example but is more representative of Irish Prison writing

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>>8489681
This is on the far horizon for me

>>8489681
the guy in the picture looks like Orwell without the stache

>>8489750
Yeah, I thought it was him also.

>>8489681
>>8489695
there was an irish book on war that I was gonna read that was the most famous of it's kind, I think, and I'm not sure if it's either of these and I can't remember
this is really bugging me now

>>8489593
>>8489605
>>8489626
I'm on mobile so i can't really check if it's still available or if anyone from other country can see it but try this

http://areena.yle.fi/1-902725

>>8490006
>http://areena.yle.fi/1-902725
It seems to be available overseas. No subtitles though.

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Only one mention of Fireforce?

>tfw brit
>have to live knowing your country abandoned it's kinsmen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBVDdr3wqm4

Ian Smiths Memoirs are a worthwhile read, lot's of references to what Rhodesian Intelligence and army top brass were thinking at the time.

Dispatches is fantastic

Anyone have any good recs for:
>Korean War
>Iran-Iraq War
>French Indochina War
>Rhodesian Bush War
I would prefer individual experiences (a la Michael Herr and Tim O'Brien) rather than an actual history book.

>>8488047
Going After Cacciato is good. I was a lazy college student so I didn't finish it though desu

>>8481862
Generation Kill

>>8490231
>>Rhodesian Bush War
see
>>8490155
>>8481319
Cocks was a college kid who got drafted, and was so competent he got put in the Scouts, where he basically murdered the fuck out of Mugabe's forces for 5 years, at which time he was informed by politicians that he lost. Pretty sad desu, and he wasnt even an Ian Smith fan. Whats interesting is he basically wrote the book in an alcoholic state as a South African man with no state i seem to remember.

>>8490231
>Iran-Iraq War
despite being an Iranian, and despite my father being a veteran of that war, I haven't read any books about that, but there was a book some years ago named Da (named One Woman's War: Da (Mother) in English), which was a story of a woman working as a medic and it was very well received and won several prizes, I heard that it was gore and sad.

>>8487981
Same buddy. I love catch 22 so fucking much.

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>>8490231
Max Hasting wrote a pretty good history of the Korean War that serves as a good intro to learning about the war.

>>8490277
checked

not him but yeah i do too. the later chapter where orr was trying to convince yossarian to come fly with him had me feeling some type of way

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pic related is a really good book about commandos in Vietnam.

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>>8490251
>so competent he got put in the Scouts

Nah m8 he was Rhodesian Light Infantry from the off. Competent enough to get put in charge of a stick, and juggled that with being a parachute drop instructor (forgot the RLI term for it) but all in all that could equally be down to manpower shortages.

> Pretty sad desu, and he wasnt even an Ian Smith fan. Whats interesting is he basically wrote the book in an alcoholic state as a South African man with no state i seem to remember.

Very depressing read as it goes on, Cocks was convinced he would've died if he hadn't been allowed to sit out his last drop a few weeks before he was due for discharge.

>>8489368

It's very nice--to be honest I lied a little, I actually live in a very small town of around 5,000 (it's called Marans) a little bit outside of La Rochelle. The city is very nice, though it has no tourist attractions or anything like that, but it is very close to an island off the coast that is a popular vacation home spot for the very rich, and is very beautiful and a nice play to go in the summer. It's very small town life where I'm from, everything is slow paced and young people either flee when they turn 18 or stay here forever, but, as one of the ones who stayed, I really like it. I'm not one for fast-paced city life.

I've never been to America at all, so I don't really understand the bad rap part. What is your reputation, and what is it really like? I can't imagine the heat though, that sounds amazing!

I totally understand that. I honestly do much better shitposting here than reading books in English, though I do believe I am fluent, sometimes it's hard to keep your brain going confronted with such a massive amount of work....Yeah Houellebecq is definitely a smoother read, while still maintaining some kind of literary value.

Definitely do try Balzac, I think you will find his prose maybe not as easy as Houellebecq, but still in a very normal, colloquial style, and he's written so much that if you like him, you're set for a long time! If not, you haven't wasted that much time, since each work is pretty short.

>>8489657

I actually haven't. I just looked him up and it seems he was a fascist, which is probably why though the name sounds mildly familiar, I don't think I've heard of him before. I don't like collaborators, though, so I wouldn't read anything he wrote after the occupation. It just leaves me too disgusted to be capable of actually reading.

It seems like Charleroi was written before, about WWI though, so maybe worth a go. You haven't read anything of his yet, or you have?

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>>8490435
This is a good commando one in Vietnam too. Basically a squad of hunter-killers in the US Military that took it too far going for headcounts. This is where the strings of ears come from

>>8489341
T.reddit

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My grandfather was stationed in Malaya after the Insurgency and can remember meeting Barber in the early 60s. It's an event forgotten by lots of people due to being overshadowed by Korea and Vietnam.

>>8480793
What's this about? I hear of it so much.

>>8481562
I want to get Achilles in Vietnam.
It's a history of PTSD right?

>>8482508
>That sex camp chapter
After browsing /pol/ for a long time I really felt like I was reading something made up

>>8483030
>>8483056
>>8484177
America really doesn't have that much to do with anti-conquistador sentiment. The British were the original source of it, South American revisionist ¡NOSOTROS EREMOS AZTECAS! didn't come until way later.

>>8485637

the SS mostly dealt with unarmed civilians and political dissidents, which really isn't very impressive or courageous.

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anybody else read this? It's my fav war book ive read so far.

bumping for interest

>>8482193
you can read stanley kubrick's script for Napoleon

>>8482193
>A few hundred rag tag troops vs literally millions of natives
conquistadors had local allies you fucking idiot
they were literally a bunch of idiot rejects, usually drunks that were constantly bothered by digestion

>>8482193
Do you have any other recommendations when it comes to Conquistadors?

No one has mentioned red badge of courage yet?

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>>8480164
>no mention of Seven Pillars of Wisdom ITT

>>8486346
I'm going to read and listen to this one at the same time.

>>8493210
try books by buddy levy

>>8493224
I've got a red badge of courage for you.

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Close second to storm of steel for me

>>8481322
No, it's just really fucking boring.

>>8493210
The conquest if Mexico