Why didnt you tell me Baldwin is a major American novelist?

>>8437062
Is Giovanni's room worth reading? I want to read it because I want lgbt literature I can related to.

>>8437071
Its great. Another Country is his best though.

>>8437062
He isn't though. He's trash promoted by self-hating white progressives, resentful mud people, and leftist pseuds (redundant, I know) to virtue signal and affect an attitude of sanctimonious concern for minorities. He contributed virtually nothing to American literature and would be forgotten today were it not for braindead liberals who deliberately conflate politics with art.

>>8437101

Buzzwords and pointless anger aside, what have you read of Baldwin that made you come to this conclusion?
Admittedly I've just read a novel (Go Tell It) and a couple shorter pieces ("Notes of a Native Son," "Sonny's Blues"), but while they're not the most complex, I found them to be pretty solidly written, and emotionally affecting on top of that. Certainly not deserving of the label "trash." Care to enlighten me as to what you see as major flaws in his work?

File: isabella-molyneux-window-hug.png (190KB, 430x322px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 430x322px

>>8437101
>virtue signal

>>8437123
Mostly the lazy identity politics, but also his inability to tell a story, his embarrassing habit of poorly imitating of the KJ Bible, his self-pitying narcissism, and his chronic failure as both an artist and a thinker. I was forced to read Notes of a Native Son and Go Tell It on the Mountain in my freshman lit class, and never in my life have be so bored and outraged at the same time. I couldn't believe that my moronic professors were peddling this rancid dogshit to students, and it's clear to me that nobody would think twice about a word he wrote if they didn't already agree in advance with every inchoate thought that floated through his pea-sized brain. People don't like James Baldwin, they like the image of James Baldwin and how that contributes to their own self-perception. Trash.

>>8437145
>lazy identity politics
Compared to whom? Fanon? But sure, I'll give you this one. If you don't like reading about identity politics, I can see why Baldwin wouldn't be your cup of tea.

>inability to tell a story
? That's a bit vague. I didn't find the storytelling in his short fiction to be fundamentally broken or obtuse. Pretty straightforward, on the contrary.

>his embarrassing habit of poorly imitating of the KJ Bible
Didn't find this to be a persistent issue, nor do I think his prose, even if not entirely original, was particularly "embarrassing" or cringe-worthy.

>self-pitying narcissism
I won't argue with this one. If you perceive some flaw in his personal character, that's between you and him.

>his chronic failure as both an artist and a thinker
Again, vague. Not really productive to answer the question "Why is he flawed?" with "He was a failure."

>I was forced to read Notes of a Native Son and Go Tell It on the Mountain in my freshman lit class
Would you mind sharing more well-thought-out insights you produced as a 19-year-old?

>his pea-sized brain
Not sure what about Baldwin's writing suggests that he's stupid. Your inability to disagree with him on a political basis without questioning his intelligence is pretty pleb behavior.

File: Should I learn to stutter.png (578KB, 1488x1080px) Image search: [Google]

578KB, 1488x1080px

>>8437171
>I'm confused by your very holistic and intelligent response. Can you dumb it down for me and answer lots of irrelevant and stupid questions?
No, I'm not here to hold your hand. If you can't figure out why I think he's rancid dogshit after I've already explained it to you in such precise and well-reasoned terms, there's no point in continuing the discussion. You're simply not intelligent enough to keep up me.

>>8437192
>there's no point in continuing the discussion
Well, you're certainly right about one thing.

File: drake.png (410KB, 396x395px) Image search: [Google]

410KB, 396x395px

>>8437062
It's mostly because there's so many authors to discuss. Do you recommend his work?

>>8437101
Damn dude, how many buzzwords can you cram into one post. At least you didn't say "cuck" anywhere.

>>8437192
Do you realize how much of an arrogant asshole you are by bashing a man like that -- or are you entirely oblivious of how stupid you sound? Well let me tell you something, you fat autistic retard: you're a real cunt-smelling, dog-fucking, piece of fucking bullshit on the fucking sidewalk that people step in and say "fuck" and end up disregarding and forgetting about; an annoyance; a fucking hen that gets fucked by all the cocks, and that eventually gets executed and feeds a poor Venezuelan family of six.
Fuck you, you disgusting filth of a human, you degenerate fucking RETARD.

>>8437062
We kept telling you you're a faggot OP. That meant Burroughs too.

As a gay man, I want to like Jimmy B. I really do. But I just don't think he's very good. You're better off with Fanon and or Ellison for the black stuff, and Burroughs for the faggoty stuff.

>>8437278
>>8437278
Baldwin didn't really write traditional "black literature" like Ellison. He was much more artistically evolved.

>>8437239
Gentle reminder that "buzzword" is a buzzword, you cuck

>>8437244
Not gonna read this lol

>>8437298
how do i delet then

>>8437295

I still don't think he's very good. I've read Another Country and The Black Boy Looks at the White Boy, or whatever that shit was called.

>>8437071
I liked it. It's (obviously) dated, but Baldwin's a great writer.

>>8437192
>my very holistic and intelligent response
Wew lad, calm down

>>8437101
I'd just like to take a moment to point out the incredible cynicism of thinking that people who disagree with your own political beliefs are just "virtue signaling" rather than simply believing in and following their own value systems. This idea that there is one true political ideology and that everyone who thinks otherwise must just be stupid is amazingly close-minded and itself one of the worst forms of stupidity - the kind which thinks itself smart and refuses any evidence to the contrary.

>>8437344

I would agree with you on one condition. Someone come up with a good substantive argument about why James Baldwin is good.

>>8437356

I fucking hate you.

God I fucking hate you.

What the fuck is it with people like you that feel like they have to give their opinion on shit they literally know nothing about? That can't admit that they're fucking clueless and don't know what the fuck they're talking about?

You're a fucking idiot.

And the thing is, if you knew that, it would be okay.

But you don't.

You're ignorance plus confidence. The cleavage of the shittiest venn diagram known to man.

IGNORANCE PLUS CONFIDENCE YOU FUCKING WORM.

James Baldwin doesn't have anything to do with "lazy identity politics" you fucking retard. If you'd read "The Fire Next Time" you'd know that. That essay is LITERALLY about eschewing lazy identity politics.

Let me repeat that to get it into what I assume must be a six-inch thick skull.

THAT ESSAY IS LITERALLY ABOUT ESCHEWING LAZY IDENTITY POLITICS YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

Now I know Donald the Dumbfuck Cheetoman has empowered fools like you to talk about LITERALLY FUCKING ANYTHING like you know what the fuck you're talking about and not have to worry about little things like "truth," "evidence," or "basic morality," but can you please confine it to meatspace where I don't have to fucking see it? Or better yet can you exercise you're oh-so-beloved second amendment right, buy a handgun and shoot yourself in the fucking head? Seriously. Do us all a favor -- and probably you're family too if you're this fucking annoying in real life (I swear to god I can fucking see you quibbling at the dinner table like the aspie I know you are) -- and kill yourself. I don't like you. No one likes you. You're useless. The time has come for you extricate yourself from the gene pool.

>>8438109
Is this what happens when you pound your brain with liberal Marxist material all your life? You're unable to simply disagree and state some points and move on but turn into some rabid wild animal with a disease.

>>8438126
It's what happens whenever someone challenges their dogma. All they can do is lash out in anger.

>>8438109
10/10

Smiled the whole way thru

Without getting into political shitflinging, can someone post a few passages from his books?

Seeing those would be a better test of how good he is than all this reddit bullshit.

>>8438109

woah..the internet! has some interesting people.

>>8438126

Tbh I was just trying to make some copy pasta after I realized I could channel the egregore of anti racism rage into the form of a 4chan post

Now I feel bad for perpetuating shitty internet discourse. My only point really is that last bit about the fire next time. It's about Baldwin being approached by the Nation of Islam and turning them down bc he realizes that they're just as racist as the average white southerner. Considering this is back in the day of Jim Crow, you have to give it to the fuckin guy. He managed to sidestep hate and stay wise. Also it's pitch perfect stylistically and rhythmically. Alright? So there's some evidence sans vitriol that James Baldwin was a good writer. Please excuse the last post. I was/am a little drunk

>>8438165
>admitting you were memeing

why do people do this

>>8437145
>accuses others of virtue signaling
>lets everyone know how outraged he is

Cool moves, bro.

>>8438177
Because some people want to have an actual conversation and not peddle around in shitposts all fucking day

>>8438165
Do you really think anti-racism is a topic that deserves such strong feeling, or feeling of any kind? It's a passing fad in the history of our morality, and one I think that will be dispensed with sooner than you think.

>>8438259
>anti-racism
>a passing fad

Exactly. "Anti-racism" was just born a couple years ago in the US with the inception of the Black Lives Matter movement just a couple years ago, and people will definitely stop giving a shit soon enough.

>no point in having any feelings about things that won't matter in ten years
Haha get a load of this guy

>>8438288
By 'our' I was referring to western morality, this should have been clear to you and the fact you decided to put it in such an unimportant time frame as the last couple decades of US history shows you aren't thinking hard about this topic, though that was already evidenced by your strong feeling towards it, now trying to be hidden by your impotent snark and sarcasm.

>>8437062
DID YOU NOT PAY ATTENTION IN SCHOOL FUCKO

>>8438157
>It was strange, suddenly, to watch, though I had been seeing these meetings all my life.
So, of course, had everybody else down there. Yet, they paused and watched and listened and
I stood still at the window. "’Tis the old ship of Zion," they sang, and the sister with the
tambourine kept a steady, jangling beat, "it has rescued many a thousand!" Not a soul under
the sound of their voices was hearing this song for the first time, not one of them had been
rescued. Nor had they seen much in the way of rescue work being done around them. Neither
did they especially believe in the holiness of the three sisters and the brother, they knew too
much about them, knew where they lived, and how. The woman with the tambourine, whose
voice dominated the air, whose face was bright with joy, was divided by very little from the
woman who stood watching her, a cigarette between her heavy, chapped lips, her hair a
cuckoo's nest, her face scarred and swollen from many beatings, and her black eyes glittering
like coal. Perhaps they both knew this, which was why, when, as rarely, they addressed each
other, they addressed each other as Sister. As the singing filled the air the watching, listening
faces underwent a change, the eyes focusing on something within; the music seemed to
soothe a poison out of them; and time seemed, nearly, to fall away from the sullen,
belligerent, battered faces, as though they were fleeing back to their first condition, while
dreaming of their last. The barbecue cook half shook his head and smiled, and dropped his
cigarette and disappeared into his joint. A man fumbled in his pockets for change and stood
holding it in his hand impatiently, as though he had just remembered a pressing appointment
further up the avenue. He looked furious. Then I saw Sonny, standing on the edge of the
crowd. He was carrying a wide, flat notebook with a green cover, and it made him look, from
where I was standing, almost like a schoolboy. The coppery sun brought out the copper in his
skin, he was very faintly smiling, standing very still. Then the singing stopped, the
tambourine turned into a collection plate again. The furious man dropped in his coins and
vanished, so did a couple of the women, and Sonny dropped some change in the plate,
looking directly at the woman with a little smile. He started across the avenue, toward the
house. He has a slow, loping walk, something like the way Harlem hipsters walk, only he's
imposed on this his own half-beat. I had never really noticed it before.