/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

why does that stupid dinosaur meme anon keep posting about his dislikes? literally no one else cares.

each generation of genre fiction serves a different emphasis.

>>8413208
That doesn't imply that all emphases are equally good.

>>8413213
So? What a trite observation. Water doesn't taste as good as food but people still drink it.

Looking for a req. Ive read most stephenson, just got done with revelation space series, fan of ai singularity ala metamorphasis of prime intellect or robopacalypse. Prefer harder sf but it doesnt have to be.

Looking for anything along those lines that was written semi recently preferably.

>>8413221
I'm pointing out your trite observation. "Each generation of genre fiction serves a different emphasis" is not a counterargument to the claim that some generations are better than others.

A roof of cloud stretching to every horizon held the air motionless beneath it, as though the earth and sky, pressing towards one another, had squeezed away its breath. Below the cruddled underside of the unbroken cloud-roof, the air, through some peculiar trick of light, which had something of an underwater feeling about it, reflected enough of itself from the gaunt back of Gormenghast to make the herons restive as they stood and shivered on a long-abandoned pavement half in and half out of the clouds.

The stone stairway which led up to this pavement was lost beneath a hundred seasons of obliterating ivy, creepers and strangling weeds. No one alive had ever struck their heels into the great cushions of black moss that pranked the pavement or wandered along its turreted verge, where the herons were and the jackdaws fought, and the sun’s rays, and the rain, the frost, the snow and the winds took their despoiling turns.

There had once been a great casement facing upon this terrace. It was gone. Neither broken glass nor iron nor rotten wood was anywhere to be seen. Beneath the moss and ground creepers it may be that there were other and deeper layers, rotten with antiquity; but where the long window had stood the hollow darkness of a hall remained. It opened its unprotected mouth midway along the pavement’s inner verge. On either side of this cavernous opening, widely separated, were the raw holes in the stonework that were once the supporting windows. The hall itself was solemn with herons. It was there they bred and tended their young. Preponderately a heronry, yet there were recesses and niches in which by sacredness of custom the egrets and bitterns congregated.

This hall, where once the lovers of a bygone time paced and paused and turned one about another in forgotten measures to the sound of forgotten music, this hall was carpeted with lime-white sticks. Sometimes the setting sun as it neared the horizon slanted its rays into the hall, and as they skimmed the rough nests the white network of the branches flared on the floor like leprous corals, and here and there (if it were spring) a pale blue-green egg shone like a precious stone, or a nest of young, craning their long necks towards the window, their thin bodies covered with powder-down, seemed stage-lit in the beams of the westering sun.

The late sunbeams shifted across the ragged floor and picked out the long, lustrous feathers that hung from the throat of a heron that stood by a rotten mantelpiece; and then a whiteness once more as the forehead of an adjacent bird flamed in the shadows … and then, as the light traversed the hall, an alcove was suddenly dancing with the varied bars and blotches and the reddish-yellow of the bitterns.

As dusk fell, the greenish light intensified in the masonry. Far away, over the roofs, over the outer wall of Gormenghast, over the marshes, the wasteland, the river and the foothills with their woods and spinneys, and over the distant hazes of indeterminate terrain, the claw-shaped head of Gormenghast Mountain shone like a jade carving. In the green air the herons awoke from their trances and from within the hall there came the peculiar chattering and clanking sound of the young as they saw the darkness deepening and knew that it would soon be time for their parents to go hunting.

Crowded as they had been in their heronry with its domed roof, once golden and green with a painting, but now a dark, disintegrating surface where flakes of paint hung like the wings of moths – yet each bird appeared as a solitary figure as it stepped from the hall to the terrace: each heron, each bittern, a recluse, pacing solemnly forwards on its thin, stiltlike legs.

Of a sudden in the dusk, knocking as it were a certain hollow note to which their sweet ribs echoed, they were in air – a group of herons, their necks arched back, their ample and rounded wings rising and falling in leisurely flight: and then another and another: and then a night-heron with a ghastly and hair-raising croak, more terrible than the unearthly booming note of a pair of bitterns, who soaring and spiralling upwards and through the clouds to great heights above Gormenghast, boomed like bulls as they ascended.

The pavement stretched away in greenish darkness. The windows gaped, but nothing moved that was not feathered. And nothing had moved there, save the winds, the hailstones, the clouds, the rain-water and the birds for a hundred years.

Under the high green clawhead of Gormenghast Mountain the wide stretches of marshland had suddenly become stretches of tension, of watchfulness.

Each in its own hereditary tract of water the birds stood motionless, with glistening eyes and heads drawn back for the fatal stroke of the dagger-like beak. Suddenly and all in a breath, a beak was plunged and withdrawn from the dark water, and at its lethal point there struggled a fish. In another moment the heron was mounted aloft in august and solemn flight.

From time to time during the long night these birds returned, sometimes with frogs or water-mice in their beaks or newts or lily buds.

But now the terrace was empty. On the marshlands every heron was in its place, immobile, ready to plunge its knife. In the hall the nestlings were, for the moment, strangely still.

The dead quality of the air between the clouds and the earth was strangely portentous. The green, penumbral light played over all things. It had crept into the open mouth of the hall where the silence was.

It was then that a child appeared. Whether a boy or a girl or an elf there was not time to tell. But the delicate proportions were a child’s and the vitality was a child’s alone. For one short moment it had stood on a turret at the far end of the terrace and then it was gone, leaving only the impression of something overcharged with life – of something slight as a hazel switch. It had hopped (for the movement was more a hop than a leap or a step) from the turret into the darkness beyond and was gone almost as soon as it had appeared, but at the same moment that the phantom child appeared, a zephyr had broken through the wall of moribund air and run like a gay and tameless thing over the gaunt, harsh spine of Gormenghast’s body. It played with sere flags, dodged through arches, spiralled with impish whistles up hollow towers and chimneys, until, diving down a saw-toothed fissure in a pentagonal roof, it found itself surrounded by stern portraits – a hundred sepia faces cracked with spiders’ webs; found itself being drawn towards a grid in the stone floor and, giving way to itself, to the law of gravity and to the blue thrill of a down-draught, it sang its way past seven storeys and was, all at once, in a hall of dove-grey light and was clasping Titus in a noose of air.

Did you enjoy that exciting chapter of Gormenghast?

>>8413225
Count to a Trillion and its sequels.

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I'm reading this, my sister wants to read my copy so she'll get it soon, and I'm pushing my wife to read it after that.

It's been fun so far.

>mfw 80's japanese cover homages Leiji Matsumoto looking like vaporwave art

>>8413230
>There are better readers than dinosaur speglord
>Lesser readers' opinions don't matter contra their betters
>Therefore dinosaur sperglord isn't allowed to enjoy his preferred books.

Idiot.

What are your guys' thoughts on Ringworld?

>>8413299
Wow. This is real? We definitely talked about Banks being anime in English lit form in the last couple threads.

I like how they romanize his name as I-an "M" Bankusu.

Player of Games was fine, but not really my favorite Culture novel if you know what I mean. I liked the idea of the premise, but maybe I didn't care much for the character.

>>8413225
>>8413290
Count to a Trillion is more ridiculous (in the way you're looking for) but you should read The Golden Age first since it's a little more tightly written. If you can't stand TGA, there's no point bothering with Count to a Trillion.

>>8413327
Wich one is your favorite of the 10, anon?
>Would it be use of weapons?

>>8413327
I wonder if banks was a weeaboo, probably no journalist ever asked him about mangos and annie mays.
>NOW, somebody ask her widow so we could know.

>>8413373
Not him but I really like Matter and The Hydrogen Sonata

>>8413373
I'm reading Use of Weapons right now. So far so good.

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>>8413299
>>8413327
>>8413373
>>8413379
>>8413381
>>8413401

Some guy in a standalone thread was asking about Seveneves, by Neal S.


If you enjoy hard sci fi and tedious details then you'll enjoy everything from Acts I to II, really is quite a riveting story once shit loses it's cool, literally and metaphorically

>>8413415

I've always found the Culture itself kind of icky and weird. I get the logic behind it but yeah.

>>8413327
Yes, it's real, it's the 1988 japanese cover.
https://stirlingcentrescottishstudies.wordpress.com/tag/iain-banks/

>>8413415
I disagree with this. Banks may have been less naive than Lucas, but the Culture is still pandering, puerile popular scifi.

Banks had no answer as to how the Culture would deal with an empire with the same level of technology, but retained their gredy impulse. And for good reason, utopias are extremely fragile.

Is it a fun series? It's funny and playful, so yeah. Is it serious literature? Don't kid yourself.

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>icky and weird

>>8413350
Yeah, I should have recommended Golden Age first. It holds together much better and sticks closer to the themes you mentioned.

>>8413451
I kind of agree with your post about the series, but got to point to this little piece of trivia:

>Banks had no answer as to how the Culture would deal with an empire with the same level of technology, but retained their gredy impulse.

Well, the Idirans had the Homomda in their side, both of them were in the same tier of technology as the culture, the Idirans slightly below Culture, but the Homomda were regarded as even more advanced technologically than the Culture itself. So that answers it, how would they deal with a situation like that?: The Idiran-Culture war, the Idirans were winning at the start of it, but Culture won in the long term because they had more resources, and the Idirans weren't that smart even with the Homomda help. Eventually the Homomda had enough of the Idiran's idiocy and left them on their own, but the Homomda were aiming seriously for the annihilation of the Culture.

>>8413415
Wait, where's the punchline?

Does he not know Star Wars is for adults?

>>8413480
Maybe he don't, since I know some adults that are also into dragon ball Z and regard it as a valid form of adult pastime. SO your mileage may vary...

>>8413321
Yifferiffic

>>8413432

Thanks. I was getting a really heavy SJW vibe along with a lot of empty pop culture references (e.g. Neil deGrasse Tyson as DuBois; HRC as JBF; Elon Musk/Jeff Bezos as Sean Probst). The majority of the characters are strong womyn who have been mildly disdained by the patriarchy but who have soldiered through and now must save the world.

I'm not sure how /lit/ feels about SJW in general but I have become so bored with it and the PC concept in general that I just don't want to look past it anymore. The idea that even a sizable minority of the world would pull together to send a bunch of wondergirls to a orbital swarm on the off chance they'll avoid tumblring long enough to repopulate the planet is asinine, in my view. I mean, my first suspicion would be, why would I help global elitists or their kids survive at all--better we all die than that. So I have had a hard time suspending disbelief right off the bat.

As for the disaster bits, well, I've seen plenty of disaster movies so I don't think there's that much for me to gain there.

>the female audiobook narrator uses hurrdurr voices for every male character

>>8413502
>suspending disbelief
Seveneves in 2 words.

>>8413502
>>I'm not sure how /lit/ feels about SJW in general
Pretty split between ideologues of both sides and benevolent trolls, just like 4chan.

As for Seveneves, it feels like it's SJW but that's a facade.

The stronk womyn are only in charge because the strong men keep sacrificing themselves for the good of the group. Hillary tumblrs most of the survivors off into her own group, most of them die, and they're eating each other by the time they reunite. The Charles Stross analogue is... I won't spoil that one, but it's hilarious. Anyway it's fantastic dark comedy and it's portrayed as a miracle that these strong female characters save anything at all.

>>8413479
I am grateful for your articulate rebuttal. However, according to the wiki, which sources Consider Phlebas, the Homomda were only maneuvering to prevent the Culture from threatening their own interests, not total annihilation prima facie. The Homimda appear to have been a bureaucratic commercial empire, not one that acted on aggression and base instinct. As soon as amiable terms were established, long term peace and trade agreements followed.

Something like the Affront or Idiran with post scarcity technology, but with the realization that they could still dominate by neutralizing the productive capabilities of other civilizations, would have posed a serious threat. And one I would like to see.

>>8413502
>I was getting a really heavy SJW vibe
>I have become so bored with it and the PC concept in general
>on the off chance they'll avoid tumblring
What does any of this meme?

>>8413521

>As for Seveneves, it feels like it's SJW but that's a facade.
>The stronk womyn are only in charge because the strong men keep sacrificing themselves for the good of the group. Hillary tumblrs most of the survivors off into her own group, most of them die, and they're eating each other by the time they reunite. The Charles Stross analogue is... I won't spoil that one, but it's hilarious. Anyway it's fantastic dark comedy and it's portrayed as a miracle that these strong female characters save anything at all.

Hmm. Maybe I'll give it another try but the orbital swarm/eugenics experiment concept is more than vaguely reminding me of Nancy Kress' Sleepless trilogy (which I liked but don't care to re-read in another form).

>>8413534

Found the benevolent troll, apparently.

Finished Small Gods, overall a pretty enjoyable read. Quite liked the portrayal of the philosophers, the desert setting and the lack of romance.

I particularly enjoyed the parody of Galileo's eppur si muove because it still managed to be exciting and badass in its own way. At the very ending the old man did kinda tug at my heartstrings but it might be just me cause I'm a sucker for those selfless acts of compassion.

>>8413502

I like female protagonists and themes of women fighting against oppressive societies and attaining freedom. That was a real issue in the past and any sort of fantasy-type setting with low tech is likely to have that. I think it's a great thing to write about.

Which is why I don't really like fantasy settings that try to avoid the issue, either by having everyone act like they aren't living in a primitive society concerned with resources and survival, or by having the female characters easily break superficial chains to succeed.

If you want to write a story about a tough female warrior she's still going to have a hell of a time fighting and I want to read about how difficult it is for her to fight and kill men. It makes it more meaningful when she succeeds, you know?

With SF though I think it's less of an issue because anyone can press a button or pull a trigger. I don't think you need strong female characters or even strong male characters, you can just have people of whatever gender doing things. There's no reason for some sort of gender-positive SF story because it's an environment that negates gender issues inherently.

Well, unless you're writing some sort of dystopian story about women being used for baby factories by evil men but that just takes you back to the same sort of themes as the fantasy stuff anyway. I'm not really going to see it as SF.

>>8413523
>Something like the Affront or Idiran with post scarcity technology, but with the realization that they could still dominate by neutralizing the productive capabilities of other civilizations, would have posed a serious threat. And one I would like to see.

It appears those are wiped out by previously sublimed civilizations, being this the reason the Dra'zon keep "planets of the dead" as a kind of memento mori and example for younger civilizations, and the fact that nobody wants to enrage the Dra'zon (or their still roaming avatars) for fear of being wiped out just like that for being naughty enough younglins in the galactic neighborhood.

The other option is that if an "Affront-like" civilization gets into sublimation first, nothing like the Culture could even get to rise in a huge part of the virgo supercluster.

>>8413539
More based on the antiswarm from Anathem. Also you keep forgetting your trip, this isn't your quest thread.

>>8413544
>With SF though I think it's less of an issue because anyone can press a button or pull a trigger. I don't think you need strong female characters or even strong male characters, you can just have people of whatever gender doing things. There's no reason for some sort of gender-positive SF story because it's an environment that negates gender issues inherently.
That's if muscle were the only gender difference. Before the military training fiascos feminists were claiming even that didn't matter, that women could pass special forces training if the man stopped putting them down.

Stephenson in Seveneves confronts a lot of those differences. The men are more prone to self-sacrifice and suicide, and less resistant to radiation. The women aren't as reckless - one of the most telling moments is when the astronaut woman realizes Elon Musk built a nuclear rocket. Absolutely idiotic, very likely to fail, but if it works they get an iceberg. He has only seven Evens surviving because of those gender differences.

More like trash general.

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Thinking about getting into The Expanse. Worth my time?

>>8413563
That sort of reduces the culture to fable.

May I ask your name? Or without breaking anonymity, how might I distinguish you in future threads? N-no reason, i-it's not like I like you or anything senpai...

>>8413502
>SJW

https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/sad-puppies-3-the-unraveling-of-an-unreliable-field/

>That’s what’s happened to Science Fiction & Fantasy literature. A few decades ago, if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds. If you saw a barbarian swinging an axe? You were going to get a rousing fantasy epic with broad-chested heroes who slay monsters, and run off with beautiful women. Battle-armored interstellar jump troops shooting up alien invaders? Yup. A gritty military SF war story, where the humans defeat the odds and save the Earth. And so on, and so forth.

>These days, you can’t be sure.

>The book has a spaceship on the cover, but is it really going to be a story about space exploration and pioneering derring-do? Or is the story merely about racial prejudice and exploitation, with interplanetary or interstellar trappings?

>There’s a sword-swinger on the cover, but is it really about knights battling dragons? Or are the dragons suddenly the good guys, and the sword-swingers are the oppressive colonizers of Dragon Land?

>>8413623
It's high pulp, nothing wrong with testing the first volume.

>>8413623
You like pulpy SF action/adventure? Go for it.

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>>8413627
He could become a Frazetta avatarfag.

>>8413628
Torgersen did more damage to his cause with that article than anything the anti-Puppies did. There is a lot of nuance in the Puppy campaigns but that article was carte blanche - I know they would have done it anyway, but this was a straight invitation - for his his enemies to misrepresent the entire movement as atavistic cretins yearning for Gernsbackian artlessness.

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>>8413635
>There is a lot of nuance in the Puppy campaigns

looks like we got ourselves a live one

>>8413623
I thought books 1 through 3 were really good, 4 kinda felt like an off-ship Star Trek episode/bottle episode if that makes sense, and 5 was the best it's been so far.

>>8413627
Yes, I was thinking the same, when sci-fi goes up to describe what's going on at post-singular scales, it stops being sci-fi and starts being mythology. This god vs that god, and such demi-god this and that... Weirdly fractal in terms of human narrative. Maybe mythopoesis is indeed the tesseract cookie-cutter of all human-made fiction.

And yes, the culture is kind of a fable, they are the joke of many advanced civilizations around, they regard the culture as childish, hedonist & tacky. Somehow the culture is based as fuck and keeps growing and growing in such way, never "maturing", avoiding collapse because "the minds" are excellent managers besides being so ad-hoc, care-free, tactless and witty humored. That, and some teeny utopic idealist form of machiavellism. Don't know how meta that could be.

>May I ask your name?
No worries anon, but I'm not that much regular here, I could be posting daily for a week, or a month then I'll post back again in a year or two, and as I grow older I find myself posting less and less here. Anyway, had been great to read you neat points and ponder a little along.

>>8413646
Yeah 4 was definitely a "mid-season episode where Sisko and Quark get trapped in the holodeck" book.

>>8413502
Get the fuck out of here you cuck

>>8413628
>Covers and content must match hurr durr you cuck nerdos with an agenda.

I dislike SJWs feminazis as any reasonable person would. But after reading that, er, rant, it exposes himself as suffering not only from lower than average IQ, but from andropause and/or some sort of early onset dementia too.

>>8413715
>Who cucks the cuckers?

>>8413732
Spot Thunderknot

>>8413723
IKR, he's not really helping no-one with that. Somebody please explain him the meaning of several concepts important to know if previously you want to buy books either offline or online, such as: Synopsis, Reviews, Sneak Peeks, etc. Not even mentioning what's a public library.

Only an idiot would claim "false advertising" from book covers.

And yes, fuck SJWs and their cucked serfs, but that guy is laughable.

>>8413752
40 Cucks

>>8413755
>That's as many as four tens.
>And that's terrible.

>>8413631
>>8413632
>>8413646

Thanks lads, gonna get the box set and check it out.

>>8413282
Yes, it's moody, beautifully written, well paced, takes you for a ride to another place. It's like reading a painting.

I am going to write a novel about 4chan.
>volcano/earthquake/tsunami kills a lot of people in Japan
>government freaks out and starts throwing massive amounts of money to their space program, calls on all citizens to do their part, suddenly they're on WWII footing colonizing Earth orbit
>to cut costs they man some of the orbital staging stations with volunteers from other countries
>it's horrifically dangerous but they accept anyone, all these NEETs with nowhere to go volunteer like mad
>Jack London in space
>depressurization/radiation sickness/the bends/losing a supply shipment/mental illness/the trap going psycho
>none of them live past 30
You're gonna be stars.

>>8413623
I really liked the first one. Thought it was fun to read.
I didn't like the direction of the story afterwards though, got way too weird for me. Book 2 was still alright, but 3 had me skipping pages until I had to put it down.

Definitely worth a try.

Any SFF novels you guys have read that involve women taking huge god/giant/alien dick and liking it?

I've come across it in The Magicians, Snow Crash (sorta), and The Wizard Knight, looking for more

>>8413982

No, I did read one about a strong, independent woman joining an intergalactic telepathic matriarchal warrior race though.

>>8413898
I want to write a book where staying a virgin until 30 literally makes you a wizard. So most wizards are creepy waifufag shut-in NEETs with tulpas and pissbottles and such.

>>8414154
Also when a woman gets enough "mana" dumped into them by enough men they become witches. Naturally witches and wizards are sworn enemies.

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>>8414154
>I want to write a book where staying a virgin until 30 literally makes you a wizard

Ha, so basically The Catholic Catechism?

>Hello, everyone–

>As you’ve probably noticed, retailers have been doing funny things with pre-orders of THE THORN OF EMBERLAIN, and the reason for that is because, despite all our hopes and the heroic patience of my publishers, we’re not going to make the expected September release date.

>I am incredibly sorry about this, and I want it to be understood that there’s nobody to blame but me. In addition to the expected obstacles, I severely complicated my life this year by moving. The process of seeking a mortgage, securing a house, and moving across half a continent (although it was necessary, and has been mostly joyful) has eaten months of my time and made it very difficult to recover lost ground on several projects. Oh– Elizabeth Bear and I are getting married, too. Another real joy, but it’s eating spare time like you wouldn’t believe.

>We are trying very hard to ensure none of this messes up my planned appearances for the rest of the year (I’ll still be at Worldcon, and in the UK in September, and at IceCon in October).

>The release date information in retailer databases is going to do goofy things for a few weeks, because that’s just the way these things work, and there really isn’t anything we can do about it. Please ignore any date you see for the time being. Have a little patience, and we’ll and we’ll have another update soon.

GRRM 3.0 confirmed

>>8414154

But the minute they get magic they turn themselves into little girls anyway.

>>8414163
Remember when authors actually wrote instead of masturbating all over their fanbase?

>>8414164

so you will finally have a fantasy novel with a little girl protag

>>8414183
but I'm already working on one of those

>>8414221
You're doing God's work, anon.

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>>8413262
>>8413277
>>8413282

Hi anon>>8413208

>>8414163
>Getting married again

Didn't learn his lesson the first time I see.

>>8413225
Neuromancer and A Fire Upon the Deep

>>8414163
Fucker. KNEW THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED

>>8414334
Probably a cucktian, can have sex unless he is married, and he is terribly horny.

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Fuck televising Foundation, that would dreadful.

They could do a serious based off Hyperion.

Imagine it, a set of 7 hour or two hour long shows, for each pilgrims tale, then a season finale when they advance beyond the grass sea. They could begin and end every episode with the plot points outside of the pilgrims tale.

I think it would work very well, Hyperion was written almost episodically enough for it to be produced in a serial way without loosing too much story.

Fall of Hyperion would be trickier, as it had a much more conventional and almost confusing mixed narrative. But by this point fans would be so committed and angry with the massive cliffhanger at the end of Hyperion that I'm sure they could slog through.

I'm just freeball thinking, I smoked half a joint and I'm listening to the Civilization Beyond Earth soundtrack.

Which of your favourite /sff/ books would you like translated into TV/Film?

>>8414411

I like the first two foundation books.

The TV show is going to be awful though.

>>8414425
They're marvelous books which I love, but the entire concept would not work in a televised environment. No real recurring characters, huge exposition would be needed at the start of every new chapter.

They could televise the last of the trilogy, or maybe just the Mule and Generals tales, but the first book would be difficult.

>>8414411
Hyperion would be excellent, I agree. It's resistant to schlockatizing because of its arty design, and relatively easy to film; a lot of its gee-whiz points could have been filmed in the 20s.

It is an interesting question as to what books are more or less easy to film. PKD was awfully popular a few years ago. Maybe Banks? He's popular enough and CG's good enough. Seveneves has plenty of reddit value, that got The Martian a movie.

Oh, Jack Campbell's Lost Fleet would be perfect. Not as weird or complex as Honor Harrington, flat characters ready for actors to insert into, semi-episodic format. Lots of staring at screens, but a good director could make half-second space battles exciting by explaining everything with pretty colors and lines. Maybe a counter on the screen to show how much supplies they have, for the real autists. And they could grab a lot of autist bucks from it, I guarantee.

I, personally, would love to see Wright's The Golden Age rendered into absolutely trippy animation by the Chosen One formed from the genes of Richard Williams and Satoshi Kon, but that won't happen soon, and neither will an Anathem miniseries.

>>8414433

In that case do you mind if I vocalize my misgivings with Second Foundation?

I really loved The Mule as a character and what he represented as a threat to Seldon's perfect system, but the whole third book I felt undermined it all. The whole cast being basically robbed of their free will wasn't inconsistent with what was being presented, but it still took the soul of the story away in my opinion.

I dunno, I just didn't like that direction it took.

>>8414453
I can sympathize with Asimov. He has this incredible plot where scientists can graph the future, perfect blend of myth and SF: a mathematician arrives in the palace with a prophecy of doom. That's the essence of Golden Age SF. And what are statistical sciences vulnerable to? Outliers, and they happen, and Terminus' faith in Seldon actually makes it easier for the Mule to conquer them.

Now, if you're Asimov, what do you do next? As a storybook prophecy, the thousand-year restoration of the Empire has to happen; that's a promise by the author. On the surface level of the story, we have to see if psychohistory can recover, if it all pays off. Can't just have Terminus declare a new Empire right then. Prophecy's not right, story timeframe's not right. What do they do for the next seven hundred years? Try to work out psychohistory with the Mule in their calculations? But what if there's another outlier?

And I think it's Asimov's faith in science that gave us the second Foundation. Of course Seldon would have known outliers happen, so as Asimov's self-insert he was prepared for it. And that's pretty Golden Age too, for the wise scientist to be proven even wiser. I would have done it differently but I can respect how difficult it was.

I have heard Psychohistorical Crisis is excellent, though.

>>8414452
I just want to see The Shrike realised in live action, and that one fight where Kassad broke the sound barrier with a kick.

>>8414453
The third Foundation book can't hold a candle to the other two of the trilogy. I personally hated the scenes where the Second Foundations talked through like fidgeting and raising eyebrows slightly.

>>8414473
Everything with the Ousters was grade A.

Weekly reminder to read sacred 'punk' trinity:
Neuromancer
The Difference Engine
Windup Girl

>>8414482
Christ the start of Kassads tale, where he's scrabbling around in that crashed spaceship and climbing into that dead guys suit, fuck. Most intense shit I'd read in a while, and after the spooking depressing first chapter and very detached vibe of the actual pilgrims movements that entire chapter blew me away

>>8414500
Combination of gee-whiz space tech and tactics and this ancient Roman kind of idea where these barbarians live outside the marches and we have no idea how strong they are or what they can do. One of the most memorable fight scenes I've read, stands head and shoulders above the rest of the book for me. Sure I remember the Merlin syndrome and the bathroom raft, but the Ouster fight scene made me want to write space battles.

>>8414487
Daily reminder that Neuromancer is less interesting than an 80s action b-movie because at least you can watch those ironically.

>>8414472

Yeah I definitely understand all that. Asmiov did a great job with the series and fleshing out scientific positivism and so forth, I just don't like what it does to the storytelling elements of the book because it robs them of agency. Nothing anyone does in the book really matters because they're all pre-programmed, and when I figured that out I wasn't really interested in them as characters.

I did hold out hope that they'd break the Second Foundation once they came into the story but that doesn't really fit the narrative so I shouldn't have expected it.

>>8414526
Yeah, the story petered out from the Mule on. Arkady was cute but she couldn't carry it.

>>8413221
>Trite
Tripe

>>8413982
IIRC Anne McCaffery did a series about how humanity got conquered by a alien empire, and a human woman escapes slavery with the help of her alien boyfriend but they get caught and sent to some remote space colony because the aliens are space-racist about miscegenation.

>>8414487
nobody listens to you because you're shit and should feel bad

Re-reading Tau Zero. God I love that book.

Just finished The End of Eternity by Asimov a really liked it.

Any other books where time travel is well implement and not used as some hacky plot device?

>>8415366
John C. Wright, City on the Edge of Time. Well, it is a hacky plot device, but it's well-implemented to be a hacky plot device on purpose.
>tfw time travel can never be invented, only given to inventors by crazed future versions of themselves

>library still doesnt have a copy of obelisk gate
Why don't the publishers send them copies early so they can have them ready by release date?

>>8413230
implying with as many novels coming out as there are in the modern world, it even makes sense to compare quality at the granularity level of entire generations. each generation is filled to the brim with awesome works. This is true many decades back into the 1950s.

>>8415427
why don't you just buy it if you're hanging out for it so much?

>>8415450
I only buy used books OR new ones if I've read a book more than twice.

>>8415366
The Time Traveler's Wife maybe, but it's a distinctly more feminine book than End of Eternity. I wouldn't call it hacks but others do.

>>8415378
This is a good recommendation, and not just because I too am a Wright fanboy. The aptly named Dinosaur Beach, which apparently inspired Wright to some extent, is also worth checking out to see what can be done with whole-hog time travel gimmickry.

>>8414163
I've honestly lost count at this point, how many delays has this been?

When I first read it I wasn't even sure it was new or not, there's been so many release dates I lost track and forgot this was the "official" one he claimed was finally legit

But yeah, Lynch, GRRM, and Rothfuss were all favorite writers of mine when I was 18 since those were the first fantasy series I had read since Harry Potter as a kid so they seemed amazing by the sheer fact they had no competition. Now, several years later after having read a lot of far better stuff and after them all revealing themselves to be completely shitty, unlikeable people I don't give a shit about any of them or their series anymore.

Funny how Lynch and Rothfuss are the two biggest SJW cucks I've ever seen and they both turned into lazy attention whores the second they got popular. Really makes you think....

>>8415378
>it is a hacky plot device, but it's well-implemented to be a hacky plot device on purpose.

Pretty much sums up everything Wright has written, ever.

>>8415994
You can't help but feel bad for Rothfuss though, he literally had nothing going for him prior to Kingkiller; he barely graduated, twice, even after spending his entire college experience being "that" nice guy.

>>8415994
Also, I don't "hate" GRRM like the other two since to me he just seems like a confused old man who has no fucking clue how to end his series (I think he actually does want to finish and tries to sit down and work but has no idea what to do) rather than Lynch/Rothfuss who choose not to write to milk their series as much as possible and because their politics are more important to them than being authors - but he's set such a bad precedent for modern fantasy writers and we're probably just gonna see more of this type of thing in the future because the writers know they can get away with it.

If you've ever went to goodreads or a mainstream place you'll see we now have a massive horde of enablers and white knights who just rush to the defense of every lazy writer making every excuse for them. It's actually pretty disgusting

>>8415994
This can really be a problem with modern fantasy. The only way to make any money is to write to a hot series, but authors grow and change and become disengaged and either quality goes to shit or they take longer and longer to produce content or both.

In a generation, readers will just be able to pick out those writers from this era who told a complete story with more or less consistent quality but as it's happening you never know who's going to deliver and who's going to crap out.

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One month till Night Without Stars

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>>8416018
I don't know man, GRRM seems really really desperate to fit in, It's really unbecoming.

>>8416025
>4 months till Blood Mirror
>2 weeks before release day
> Weeks pulls a Lynch and the date gets pushed back by 2 years

>>8416032
>Blood Mirror releases on time
>"It's a transitional story"

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>mfw no little girl SFF list yet

>>8416138
Should write a whole little girl series

Little girl vs The tentacle monster from outer space
Little girl and the Ork invasion
Little girl and the undead swarm

>>8416019

I think about this a lot because I've been planning out a fantasy series for years now as a project in the future, and it's kind of a big deal for me personally that it's something that will satisfy the reader in terms of content and me in terms of creative control. Things like me getting sick of writing an ongoing story or being unable to deliver a conclusion for whatever reason or writing a book that simply serves as a bridge to further books aren't really conductive to that.

So I decided that I'd make a fantasy setting and have an overarching plot, but the main focus of each book would be on a standalone story with a new main character. That way I can tell different stories as I myself change over time, so long as they fit a very basic framework needed for the plot of the whole thing. The framework itself would also be a bit easier to modify over time because as it's in the background, changes to it wouldn't be overt. I'd use recurring characters from previous books to continue plot threads as secondary stories and link things together, but the focus would be on the individual stories so that a reader could just pick up any book and jump in and get something out of it, and if there's a delay or something then fans would at least know that they're get a proper story with each book they buy not some transitional cliffhanger ending filler book.

With the stories so far I've got a bunch of different themes, so I can use different genres and story structures that interest me in a fantasy setting, so the big issue is making the world detailed and varied yet consistent enough for lots of different kinds of stories, including ones I might conceive of in future. I guess the last story in the series wouldn't be structured like this since it'd have to serve as a conclusion to the series, so in that respect it'd be different?

That's the plan anyway, who knows how it'll turn out, if at all.

>>8413653
I too post sporadically. The only reason I started posting again shortly ago, was because there was a large wave of threads that I felt I could participate in. They're dwindling as it happens, so I'll prob be lurking on the down low again!

Perhaps fate will let us meet again friend.

I just read solaris, is it good?

Seriously though, what's your opinion of it?

>>8415427
Mate.
http://a.pomf.cat/wvexpo.epub
There were 49 overdrive libraries which carried a digital copy of The Obelisk Gate which means that sooner or later it was going to get upped. I requested a copy on Bibliotik and by the time I woke up (one day after the release) one user had already filled my request via overdrive (with a copy they ripped themselves). By that time, mobilism and myanonamouse had gotten copies too. IRC probably has it by now too since that seems to be the overwhelming large archive of fiction.

The trauma conga line of waiting forever at a library that might never get a book is over, for now at least, with the more popular books. If the author is even more popular you can sometimes read the book the very hour after it gets released.

>>8416149
If I was a writer all my books would have little girl characters

What happened to the Dhalgren thread?

Here's my review for that anon:

I found Dhalgren a burdensomely long montage of superfluous human suffering, set in a city where reality shifts unpredictably. While the plot sounded salient to me, I did not agree with the execution. Most of the episodes were not interesting, and many were drawn out in excess. What I did find noteworthy was skimmed over, and tossed away just as quickly. Some readers may enjoy reading about the unfoldings of an observer type narrator slumming it and exploring trinary sexuality, but I did not find Delany's presentation an insightful study of such a condition.

The idea behind the lack of, and distortion, of material certainty, is cool. Quite cool. This is something I want to see more of in fiction. The novel has assurable literary merit, and addresses the universal struggle by artists for recognition, but reading it did not inspire me to care enough. Ulysses did it better, and Dhalgren was not a compelling read, as an original novel, or as a Joycean clone.

Nova and Babel-17 were better. Read those.

Goddamn, The Martian was fucking terrible. That little attempt at introspective on the last page, to try and justify the slog that was his memetastic 'IFuckingLoveScience' stained 'log series'. Slightly mad I wasted time reading this when I could have started Dubliners.

>>8416019
>This can really be a problem with modern fantasy. The only way to make any money is to write to a hot series, but authors grow and change and become disengaged and either quality goes to shit or they take longer and longer to produce content or both.

Happens with SF too. For example with Honor Harrington you can tell that by book 8 David Weber had really started to loose interest in the series, his other stuff like the Armageddon Reef series shows while Harrington has become relatively dull potboilers padded out with pages of politics/author explains how space tech works/overly long descriptions about X number of missiles meeting Y number of anti-missile/laser defenses and then Z number of missiles hit causing Rsqrt damage to the battle fleet.

>>8416149
>Pounded in the butt by my imageboard posts asking for little girl protagonists
>Albert Nonymous is just a average basement dwelling nerd who spends his days posting on the popular internet webforum FarChannel, but when he accidentally clicks on /cm/ instead of /lit/ and then spills a bottle of Fountain Dew onto his laptop in shock, his posts come alive to show him the true meaning of love. In his butt.

>>8416588
Tingle pls go.

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>>8416138
Tai Lee was goat.

>>8416029
>>8415994
GrrM was literally cucked. His writing is a cathartic release and rationalization of this. E.g. Tyrion is unjustly punished by the world. Major females in positions of power are incompetent (Dany), crazy/sadistic even with good intentions (Cersie), cold hearted (Arya), or idolized (Brienne)


>>8416588
Do you think that WoT was milking it, or was the middle part a natural symptom of a large story?

>>8416564
It convinced me Ridley Scott still has talent - the fact he made it watchable.

>>8416688
God I hope Chick Tingle wins so Zoe Quinn can accepted his Hugo. The butthurt and drama will be delicious.

>>8416740
What's going on?

I'm not aware of the drama

>>8416291
Thanks mate. I usually use libgen for comics and research paper downloads, and it has some books but not a lot. I'm pretty out of the loop for book piracy.

>>8416785
Vox Day got Chuck Tingle joke nominated as part 2 of his quest do destroy the hugos.

>>8416785
http://www.dailydot.com/unclick/chuck-tingle-trolling-hugo-zoe-quinn-genius/

>>8416827
god what a bunch of angry nerds.

I don't care about the hugos except as a quality checker for all the shit that genre fiction pumps out.

all this nonsense needs to end soon. genre fiction writers and readers are already pathetic enough.

>>8416833
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ruined by the weird porn writer and the stupid bitch from Gamergate? that's what this stupid nerds at the hugos get

>>8416807
You can search the book up on mobilism. Watch the page with pagemonitor and add

release|Release|Fulfilled

To the regex filter and get notified if the book is uploaded. On private torrent sites it should also be possible to set up an autodownloader for books you are looking forward to, but they do have built in easy notifications if an author releases something.

>>8416844
Nah Quin was some woman that gamergate harassed.

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>>8416869
>Not knowing the whole story.

I shaggy doo

>>8416869
> not understanding a blanket term

u a stupid bitch you nigga

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>>8416844
>the weird porn writer
>implying Tingle isn't a post-post-modernist wizard

>>8416881
>muh vidya game ethics

Bitch got harassed by beta nerds because her cuck of a BF decided to air their dirty laundry online. Thats all there is to memegate.

>>8416913
>only reading gawker and friends
wew lad

>>8416935
Okay. Now you go back to talking to your fellow cucks about how Marxists are trying to remove boobs from your anime or whatever.

>>8416889
Neither original or funny

>>8416913
This.
Plus the cuck essentially ruined 4chan so hard that mootykins had to ban every retard (most of them who were redditors) who kept shitting up the boards. They got so butthurt that they couldn't shit up boards because of the moderators that they all migrated to 8gag and shat up everything there.

>>8413197
Dragons, elves, magic, swords and shit like that. What are you 12 year olds?

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someone convince me to finish this...... i'm about halfway through and it's getting unbearable. is Exodus what i'm waiting for? will it make up for these utter shit Tunnel bits?

>>8417066
>>8417066
It's Wolfe, senpai. Do you want to disappoint Wolfe's moustache? No, you do not. Plus the vocabulary is trim compared to New Sun. PLOW ON MY DILIGENT SENPAI.

>>8417066
Don't read books you hate in order to get reputation points on a singaporean carpetweaving board.

Read something you like. If it's unbearable, drop it, because there are plenty of shit classics and plenty of good classics and if you don't move on from something you find shit you might die before you read the best one.

Hey /sffg/, I was hoping for a recommendation or two. I'm extremely gay, but love sci-fi/fantasy. Unfortunately, the two rarely seem to overlap well, and I was looking for a fantasy or sf novel or series where there's m/m gay stuff? Romance is fine, but a story that's porn with plot is something I'd love to see. The only one I remember coming across that wasn't BLATANT porn was The Steel Remains, and little else follows in that vein.

>>8416177
>tfw some rando anon is going to make a shitload of money one day writing Dragon Age fanfiction and everyone will be none the wiser

>>8417113
Prince of Nothing series

>>8417113
Maybe try the Craft Series? I vaguely recall hearing that there's a gay lich as one of the protaganists.

>>8417113
Perdido Street Station has a guy who bangs a humanoid insect creature which is similar I guess

>>8417113
>>8417117
>>8417126
wow it was a slow thread, but such a shitty question brings all the fags from the woodworks.

sffg really is for pathetic faggots

>>8417113
Since Delany divorced his wife for a man and his writing became shit, he became everything you are looking for.

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>>8417094
damn.. ur rihgt... nor his eyepatch
>>8417102
i get that but i really am totally gay for this world he's building. i need closure.

but why does he feel the need to expound so much in dialogue.
it seems like he uses all this boring dialogue to prop up the brief nuggets of Whorl exposition that i'm really in this for.
they're on a maddeningly slow drip

>>8417117
>>8417120
>>8417126

Woah, thanks anons! I'll see what my library has and what might be in stock in the tricounty system (or Overdrive, if it gets that desperate). Wasn't expecting this much help, but I totally appreciate it.

>>8417132
>stop_liking_what_I_don't_like.swf

>>8417137
If it interests you, then read it's worth reading mate.

>>8417113
The Broken Earth has gay stuff but only in the latter 1/4 of the first novel and nowhere else with none in the second book.

Almost everything from Overdrive is ripped anyway and uploaded to mobilism/IRC so don't cuck yourself by waiting forever for a library to get the book, just download it off Irchighway or moblism https://forum.mobilism.org/ or the pirate bay or private trackers like bibliotik or myanonamouse

>>8417120
Hey, for this one, can you recall who the author was offhand? I'm seeing quite a few books and series with the same name, but nothing that pops up with "demon" or "lich" attached directly to it

>>8417140
i will power thru with ur blessing anon

>>8417113

Why dragon age?

>>8417151
Epic-scale fantasy, where each installment focuses on one different protagonist and a rotating cast of amigos and love interests, vaguely focused on a shared plot device but open enough to newcomers that continuity lockout doesn't become too much of an issue?

First thing that jumped into my head was when my best friend played through the Dragon Age games. Another one would be The Elder Scrolls, but they maintain a shared world with installments spread across hundreds and thousands of years inbetween, so the characters aren't shared. The first BOOK series that pops to mind is the discworld series, but it's impenetrable if you don't know what the hell is going on to start with

>>8417160
Sounds like you'll love Prince of Nothing.
I didn't because I dislike multi POV stories
Books rarely have loose story arcs, though, Gambit pileup occurs very often.

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Hey /sffg/ if you ever ended up inside a book universe and ended up trapped there forever, would you be able to stop yourself from memeing anachronistically?

>>8417160

Yes but Dragon Age is shit that goes nowhere. It's not about different protagonists, just a series of empty blank slates.

>>8417180
>shit that goes nowhere
I thought that applied to every genre fiction book.

>>8413299
>>8413327
>>8413379
I just went through the archive to check on that manga/anime discussion, but I still can't really see it. I always read Banks as typical British post-WWII writer. Everything seems to be bleak, the future is never really bright, characters just get along but there is almost always tragedy in their past, especially between them and Banks slowly digs it out for the reader over the course of the book to show how the character's motivations and actions came to be. There is almost always a once-strong empire involved that has lost its power or dearly clings to it, their actions and lookouts grounded and caged in the past rather than in an outlook for the future, with the exception of The Culture as an "empire" itself, that rather incorporates idealized European Union/American/Western World ideas to me.
Even when he descrbes a setting in sunshine, it still feels like a grey-clouds-day somehow.
There's also people anchored in weird traditions everywhere it seems, stuck in familial obligations which they want to break out of.
And trains man, fucking trains in every single story, can you get more British?
Reading Banks, I always feel like when I read novels like "The Remains of the Day" or "Never let me go", which were ironically written by Kazuo Ishiguro, an originally Japanese citizen (the manga connection), who really seems to understand that bleak post-WWII British feeling and can deliver it very well, even better than Banks.

>>8417255
Ishiguro was more culturally English than Banks. He grew up in England for pretty much his entire formative life, whereas Banks was Scottish and politically opposed to all ideas of empire. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that if you keep in mind that, while being British, there's still a difference between English and Scots which might clarify things for you.

>>8417260
I am well aware of that but I don't see it as relevant. I haven't after all, pointed out differences between these writers but similarities.

>>8413797
I don't know why they call it pulp, it's not low quality or shat out like a brick on a time table.

the books get an interesting context switch too. this isn't really a huge spoiler but: the books strictly start (and are very detailed in dealing with) stellar travel and a human society that has populated asteroids and planets within our solar system, but in one of the later books it actually goes interstellar. pretty cool imo, doesn't happen often.

>>8417163
>hyperion
>all thing and super internet

I would shitpost like never before

>>8417066
>upside down submarine

>>8417619
>what is a zeppelin

>>8417673
How the artist drew it makes it look like an upside down sub, not a zep.

>>8413544
Read r scott bakker. Exactly what u need

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Get it while it's hot, updating sometime soon.

>>8417749
>rendevouz with rama
>1973
>modern

Also, it fucking sucks

>>8417749
Man, so many modern books have such garbage covers. You've got all these skilled illustrators and artists on portfolio sites like artstation and dA now, yet 90% of the publishers just go with stock imagery instead.

>>8417768
It was fun.

Also, as I explained before "modern" just means it aged well and would be enjoyed by someone of our time.(seeing that I read all of those post 2010).

No nostalgia to cloud the mind.

>>8417810
Yeah but Rama was a crap novel when it was published, it didn't get worse with age because it was always bad.

>>8417810
The four good things about Rama are thus:
>a) the idea of Rama
>b) The idea of a United Planets
>c) Calling people from Mercury "Hermians"
>d) The idea of Simps

The rest is drivel. And I'm normally not one to call this card, but it's actually kind of sexist. The sole female character is introduced by describing her breasts, before then getting fucked by the main character in the closing act for no real reason, apart form him to cheat on his two wives.

It's far from Clarke's best.

>>8414879
I'm looking forward to it after I read Broken Sword and found out Poul Anderson is a freaking treasure. High Crusade is next, though.

>>8417687
After looking at it for two hours, I'm just not seeing it.

>>8417780
90% of those covers were probably whatever the publishing house had on hand. Only big name authors get special covers.

>>8417780
that pisses me off to no end, too. kind of interesting, comics do it the other way round, you have a cover illustrator that tempts you with a good cover to buy a comic book, but the inside is drawn by an absolute hack and makes the story worse.

>>8417994
Hence the "don't judge a book by it's cover" meme.
I would not have touched red rising if that was the case, even after the anon swore if it was shit I could fuck his mom.

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The Wheel of time isn't half as bad as some of you said it would be. I'm having fun in the 1st book.

>>8418247
No one said you wouldn't have fun in the first book.

>>8418264
The need for 14 books still puzzles me, but I'll try my best.

>>8417255
>And trains man, fucking trains in every single story, can you get more British?
I take your point, but you could just as easily ask "can you get any more Japanese?"

>Japanese citizen[s]...really seem to understand that bleak post-WWII British feeling
Maybe this is just it. Maybe the post-WWII Japanese feeling isn't too different from the post-WWII British feeling. I wouldn't be the first to point out the similarities between the two honor-obsessed, class-stratified, island nations on the edges of the Old World's great continents, and perhaps there is something to be said for the similarity in their more recent histories as well.

That said, I'm not sure I agree that Banks paints a universally bleak picture. He often describes decaying, backwards societies, yes, but he also depicts them as insignificant blips in the galactic history, inevitably moving toward the Culture's definition of progress. He almost never depicts the Culture itself, I think, because it is a world where interesting stories don't happen. His characters are grizzled, traumatized, and on the fringes of society, because those are the best candidates for action heroes in his universe.

I suppose you could interpret that as "utopia doesn't cure all human (or, substitute "intelligent being") suffering," but you could also just read "better is not necessarily perfect." I think that contrast is also part of the black comedy of it all--his Culture's amazing technological and sociological innovations allow its agents to suffer in novel, comically absurd ways (surviving beheading, whatever). I guess that "resigned satisfaction with a side of suppressed grief" is indeed quite British. I think you could say it is also Japanese.

>>8417113
>BLATANT porn was The Steel Remains
Wait what? Someone in some other thread recommended that book to me, unsolicited, when I said I read a lot of sf but not much fantasy. I thought it was coming from a place of "this is fantasy for sci-fi readers," but was that anon actually just calling me a fag?

Nevertheless I am one, so I guess I'm still adding this to my reading list.

>>8416836
>Hugos
>quality checker
What

>>8417819
>The sole female character is introduced by describing her breasts, before then getting fucked by the main character in the closing act for no real reason
A valid observation, but for some reason I feel obligated to point out that Arthur C. Clarke was gay.

>>8418405
Rather pointless, but I suppose it could be his best (or breast?) attempt to write from a macho man perspective. I've not read tons of his work so I can't truly comment on him a whole.

>>8418380
>someone else appreciates the similarities between post-war UK and Japan
If only my history tutor could see me now

I'm looking for sci-fi books from Gutenberg to download to my phone.

Is there a chart for books from Gutenberg?

>>8418483
No chart, but off the top of my head:
Voyage to Arcturus
Last and First Men
Triplanetary
The Night Land
A Princess of Mars

archive.org has an immense amount of pulp magazines, some of them have very good short stories in them. Pretty badly ocr'd sometimes though.

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>>8413197
I'm assuming this is a good place to ask? I've recently gotten into a mercenary/bounty hunter/pirates-in-space kick and was wondering if I could get some recommendations. Just assume I haven't read any in that genre (because I can't fucking remember if I did).

Anyone knows of books where the main focus is on races like dwarves, gnomes, goblins or the like? I don't know enough but they seem like relatively unpopular or unexplored and I've always been interested in how their societies or cultures might work.

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>>8418746
I heard this is supposed to be pretty good, although I haven't read it myself.

>>8418683
You might want to try reading "Nightingale" by Alastair Reynolds. It's a short story in his Galactic North collection where a mercenary, along with other for-hire types, is recruited to board a mysterious military spaceship.
If you like it there are some characters of the kind you are looking for in some of his books, like Revelation Space for example.

You can also try Leviathan Wakes from the Expanse series and go for there if it suits you.


>>8418746
Terry Pratchett has some Discworld books that explore those themes and has built interesting societies in my opinion:
Dwarfs are talked about in many books, but their society is explored the most in The Fifth Elephant.

A form of gnomes are the main supporting characters of his Tiffany Aching novels starting with The Wee Free Men, of which they are the title characters. Those books are young adult, even though these gnomes are colored blue, very angry, perpetually drunk and picking a fight with everyone.

>>8418808
Thanks, I'll check it out. I've actually heard good things about Revelation Space before.

I've watched the Expanse and loved it, totally forgot it was based on a book series.

>>8418387
Its a solid series. Just the sex scenes are EXTREMELY graphic.

>>8418808
I don't doubt Pratchett might do some interesting stuff with those races but from what I gather they seem to be told from an outsider POV of their society. Thought it might be interesting to find some books written with these races as the protagonists.

>>8418275
It has a slight drag in the middle. Still very enjoyable.

>>8418854
>slight drag

wew understatement of the year

>>8418849
Those are mostly from outsider POV's yes, but there are several dwarf characters, or even Carrot, who was a human raised by dwarfs, for comedic effect. One of the characters who hangs around the main protagonist is a dwarf, so that is a not-so-outside POV.
The thing with Pratchett is that he doesn't limit the narrative to one group, because they all are part of his whimsical world. When talking about dwarfs sooner or later he talks about trolls because the two don't like each other very much and so on.
Quote from the Discworld wiki, which reminded me that Thud! also talks about dwarfs a lot:
>As Terry Pratchett's books have become more and more elaborate in the recent years the description of the Dwarf race has become more and more realistic. In the early books (Guards! Guards!, Wyrd Sisters) the Dwarfs were little more than a caricature of the Disney Dwarfs singing the Hi-Ho song. However, especially in the more recent Thud! the Dwarfs have been described as an ancient race which is almost immobilised by the large amount of history and traditions. Many (but luckily not all) dwarfs have a problem with fitting into a modern world, where many of the old traditions have become obsolete or plain wrong.

Just try it if you have time.

>>8418819
Looks like it's easily found:
http://mehdi.ca/ebooks/Alastair%20Reynolds/Alastair%20Reynolds%20-%20Nightingale.pdf

>>8418923
>many of the old traditions have become obsolete or plain wrong
I hate this. I love Discworld but I hate it when he does this.

>>8418997
I thought about omitting that last sentence to preserve your precious trigger-free hug box. I'm sorry I caused you frustration.

That being said that tendency does become ham-fisted and annoying in his latest books, like the one with the goblins. Which I don't really recommend.

>>8418867
Lad, I'll admit that I listened to it on audiobooks at 2x speed.

I will say, it wore on me slightly when there were like 5 female POVs in a row. (Later they became much better and Perrin's became a drag)

Matt's chapters were still more than interesting enough for me to plow through

>>8419061
>implying I don't want to be triggered
No, thanks for it. I read the goblin one - that was Unseen Academicals, right? Yeah, that was pretty hard with the "racists are stupid and fat chicks are beautiful" themes. Pratchett can do nuance but his daughter can't or won't.

>>8419095
There's a slightly creepy depiction of goblin culture in Snuff, along with a lot of anti-speciesism, prejudice and priviledge stuff that felt really uninspired and boring.

>>8419119
>Pratchett
>Uninspired
Say it ain't so.

>>8418826
4 u

>>8419170
Stage IV metastatic Alzheimer's will do that to you

>>8419170
It was his last few books where his daughter ghostwrote.

>>8418683
Neal Asher, BV Larson
Check those two authors

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There's also this series, haven't read it but it's supposed to be quite funny and about a goblin that gets kidnapped by a bunch of adventurers and forced to help them on their quest.

>>8418746
Cogweaver saga. I think another anon picked up my rec, he could say how it is.

>>8419185
I'm pretty convinced she ghostwrote from Making Money onwards.

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>>8419214
>these aren't your grandma's garden gnomes

But i love those kind of gnomes... seriously tho the Poortvliet books were the most magical shit EVER as a child.

>>8419220
what makes you say so? Is the voice noticeably different?

>>8419232
It relied heavily on awfully boring humour that was completely uncharacteristic of Pratchett.

>>8419094
Matt chapters were the only thing that kept me going through Crossroads

>>8418247
Well the first book is kinda misleading and doesn't reflect how the rest of the series goes. People get into it thinking it's going to be a LotR-style journey story.

>>8416833
Why is this author acting like Tingle managed to pull one over on the sad puppies voter bloc when he's doing exactly the kind of shit they intended him to do? They lose by winning?

>>8419406
Crashing Hugos with no survivors.

>>8419406
>dailydot
Coping mechanism.

In all fairness It's almost certain Tingle is a PhD dissertation; he'll stop publishing around mid 2017, expect a reveal paper soon after.

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>>8419441
SPEAKING OF WHICH
http://www.ustream.tv/hugo-awards
http://www.ustream.tv/hugo-awards
http://www.ustream.tv/hugo-awards

>>8419189
Thanks, looks like some interesting stuff.

>>8418974
Thanks. Read a few pages, already looks like a fun read.

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>>8419906

>>8416203
I think it's alright. The best part about it are the opening chapters when all this weird shit is happening and you have no idea what the fuck is going on. Part of me feels like more could have been done with the overall concept, but then the book is only really about how it's impossible to communicate with extraterrestrial beings at such a scale, so it did it's job as far as philosophy goes, I guess. I feel like it was missing a proper climax, though. Once everything's established it sort of just stops.

Aw, Absolute Aram got passed over

>>8413502
This is basically the problem I had with the book (which I didn't finish). It's not even that I have a problem with strong women (LOVED Volyova in Revelation Space) or black people in powerful positions, it's just the way the characters were written was super tacky and seemed to have an obvious SJW tinge to it.

What would be the sci-fi equivalent of the Divine Comedy? What about Paradise Lost?

>>8413197
After about a year of thinking about reading The Wheel of Time, this summer I finally decided to start. I know that it apparently starts to drop in quality a few books before Sanderson picks it up, but I just finished The Great Hunt and I feel compelled to tell somebody, anybody, how excited I am to dive into Jordan's world. I think I'm really gonna fall in love with this series boys, and I've got 12 other books to read. It feels like Christmas.

>>8420070
Check back when you hit Winters heart

I want to see you break during the slong of Winters Heart-Crossroads of Twilight

>>8420099
I'm expecting it so it might not be as painful as I've heard (even though the opinion seems to be completely unanimous), but I'll try and force my way through it. And its just two books, I've suffered through more then just that to reach a satisfying conclusion

>>8420112
Its three books, my mistake, I thought Knife was the middle book.

Strap it, it does get better, but wew lad does it get painful for a while there.

>tfw no sranc gf

I wasn't paying attention, did Vox execute his master plan?

>>8420203
Not really, some of the already-popular stuff he slated won (Gaiman, The Martian, etc) but no Castalia or Tingle.

>>8419225
They are dark as fuck(cogweaver that is).

>>8420232
I keep up with his blog for some stupid fucking reason, but I had no idea he was backing Gaiman. Was under the impression that he considers everyone outside his clique an SJW globalist.

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Why would anybody want to waste time trying to "bring down" the Hugos? Like who gives a shit if there's a liberal bias? Right-wingers have the Prometheus Awards all to themselves. Is it because they're not as notable? Is this just an issue of sour grapes?

>>8420245
IIRC he had some kind of convoluted plan where Sandman would get Noah Warded for being associated with the Puppies, thus proving that it was all a conspiracy.

>>8420245
>Was under the impression that he considers everyone outside his clique an SJW globalist.
He's pretty chill as long as they leave him alone.

>>8420262
>Like who gives a shit if there's a liberal bias?
People who use them as a quality indicator and want to stop one more thing in their life from turning into someone else's bully pulpit.

>Right-wingers have the Prometheus Awards all to themselves.
>Doctorow won 3

>>8420280
That actually makes sense, to be fair.

What has Castalia been doing as of late? Are they actually gaining ground or is there entire customer base still alt-right weirdos? They publish Anonymous "Amygdala Annihilator" Conservative's books so probably the latter.

>Doctorow won 3
Isn't he libertarian-ish though?

>>8420262
>Is this just an issue of sour grapes?

Pretty much. It's "help help I'm being triggered by different opinions!" whining by people who are no better than the Maoist Red Guards.

>>8418765

I've read two of these. They've got a lot of cliche story elements but the writing itself is pretty refreshing, i think because it's translated from another language? It just read very different but not in a bad way.

>>8420193
>wanting a hairless elf to fuck you in the ass

Bruh, skinspy gfs are wear its at.

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>>8420316
>Maoist Red Guards
Speaking of which holy fuck I'd love reading some SF based off Maoism. Protracted Peoples War in space would be fucking dope.

>>8420329
>i think because it's translated from another language?
Translators translate like shit.
My gramps had books translated and it completely changed the meaning.

>>8420297
>What has Castalia been doing as of late?
A Heinlein juvenile rip-off, a Western, and a couple of literary satires, one a memoir of the UN trying to democratize an island of cannibals and the other a surreal pagan-themed novel about the music industry. Seems like his goal is to publish more authors he thinks are worthy but traditional houses won't touch, like Aramini.

He's got more SFF books coming out soon and he's going to be publishing a lot of Wright. Seems like he finally got that massive slush pile figured out.

>>8420346
>he's going to be publishing a lot of Wright

Of fucking course, I've been shipping VoxxWright for some time now.

>>8420354
I'm glad Wright's still getting published but having a fanboy for an editor isn't doing him any good. I do appreciate that Wright tries to push the limits of what he can do but he needs polish.

>>8420346
What's Wright even working on? Just the sequel to Somewhither? The Countdown books are already done and getting published by Tor anyway.

>>8420333
>space colony kills all the space birds that were keeping the space bugs from eating their crops, landowners blamed

>space colony leaders introduce "traditional space medicine" after supplies of real medicine get low

>space colony's military builds fake moon to lay claim to asteroid belt

>space colony entrepreneur makes fabulous wealth exporting cheap goods to space America, moves assets to space Vancouver, while cheating his way through space university his son kills a woman by crashing his gold plated space Ferrari

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>>8420403
>space colony's military builds fake moon to lay claim to asteroid belt

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>>8420408
Basically the Chinese are enlarging islands, or building entirely new ones on reefs, in the Spratly Islands as part of a gambit to lay claim to parts/all of the island chain.

>>8420381
He's doing a Doc Smith-style serial on Patreon, another new SF project I think, another Everness, another Orphans of Chaos, and this:
>NOWITHER is my next project after I am done with my juvenile Knight-and-his-Dog-who-was-Thursday urban fantasy Arthuriania called GREEN KNIGHT’S SQUIRE
>...They are all members of a secret police organization called the Last Crusade, fighting a deadly conspiracy called The Supreme Anarchists’ Council. The Seven Anarchists all have codenames are taken from the days of the week, and they contemplate a rebellion against nature herself, and nature’s God. Fortunately, some things are in the public domain, and I am as shameless as Homer when it comes to ripping off other sources, or, more to the point, as shameless as Virgil ripping off Homer.

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>>8420403
Well maybe not post-revolution Maoism but a lot Maoist guerilla warfare strategy would be super entertaining in SF form.

Hell I wish sci-fo authord would start modelling their galactic empires after 20th century communism because the aesthetic is cool.

>>8420452
*sci-fi authors. Its so hard to type on mobile!

>>8420374
I couldn't even get into Somewhither because of the first-chapter infodump. I really wanted to.

>>8420333
>Three Body Problem
Basically "what if the struggle sessions were right."

>>8418387
What I meant by that was, The Steel Remains has two or three main (POV) characters: a slightly grizzled, charismatic war hero; an alien engineer from a different dimension; and a tribal chieftain from the hills. The war hero's a gay guy who's only escaped persecution and execution for being into dudes because he's a hero from a well-to-do family, the engineer's an introverted lesbian recluse, and the chieftain (if I recall correctly) has a thing for banging jailbait, and is the only straight one of the three.

It can get graphic at times when they get into the sex scenes, but isn't itself a romance or pornographic novel; instead, it's like you described it: a sci-fi-oriented fantasy novel about the ramifications of all this fantasy crap in a realistic (ish) setting, or at least one with grounded and realistic consequences for "heroic" actions. But with canoodling.

If you're willing to squint a bit, the gay parts shouldn't bother you, since you can always skim ahead to the end of the chapters. (only one or two in each of the first two books I"ve finished so far, and each is only a section of a chapter) If you like fantasy or sci-fi, it ought to be worth it, I'd argue

>>8420491
I got The Steel Remains from the library a while back, without knowing anything about it beforehand, and ended up returning it because I thought it was gay porn.

>>8420418
>all of that in a year too
I'm scared

>Finish Guns of Empire
>That ending

Wew lad, they are fucked.

>>8418683
Lois McMaster Bujold has some of her books and stories set in the Vorkosigan saga universe featuring a space mercenary and his family, a military clan from a feudalized nation-state planet out in the boondocks. Haven't read her stuff in a while but from what I can recall, it was pretty well-developed.

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>>8420442
>The Seven Anarchists all have codenames are taken from the days of the week, and they contemplate a rebellion against nature herself, and nature’s God

So he's moved on to ripping directly off Garth Nix, then? Good to see he's trying new(?) things, I guess

>>8420618
It will never be as good as Nix.
Poor Monday.

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>>8420618
You absolute idiot. When was Garth Nix in the public domain? You mouthbreathing pleb.

He's obviously ripping off Diana Wynne Jones.

Any books similar to a Cavern of Black Ice? I loved the first book in the series, but dont want to read all of it knowing that Jones is becoming the femsle GRRM

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>>8420731
Hmm.... maybe try Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory's "The Obsidian Mountain Trilogy," starting with The Outstretched Shadow? It's an epic scale journey to stop the massing Forces of Darkness™ (demons) from destroying the human and elven spheres of the world, while the protagonists also try to avert a pending civil war between the humans and elves. It was some good shit, and featured pretty well-orchestrated battles directed by Mallory, who's a historian in his spare time.

>>8420746
Summary sounds super interesting, thanks for the rec

>>8420755
No problem, man, hopefully you like it! It's one of my favorite series, and captivated me late into the night when I first read them. The sequel series they both wrote didn't have the same magic to me, unfortunately, but a third trilogy is in the works at the moment so perhaps that'll be The One.

If you end up digging this one, give the Dragonlance books by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman a shot, too. It's loosely based on one of the 80s settings for Dungeons & Dragons, but the first trilogy set in that world (starting with Dragons of Autumn Twilight) and the three or four after that were great.

>>8420618
Not Scifi related but I love The Old Kingdom books. and Garth Nix is a top bloke, met him a few times now

>>8420618
>So he's moved on to ripping directly off Garth Nix, then?
Is this a joke? That's basically the plot of The Man Who Was Thursday by Chesterton.

>>8420897
Plebs wouldn't know friend.

He said, and he meant it deeply, "No, it is a crime. It is a very great crime, and I am bitterly ashamed. But I would do it again, if I had to, and any number of times, if I had to."
"For me, Andrew? For me?"
He did not raise his eyes to hers. "No, Noys, for myself. I could not bear to lose you."

>asimov is a bad writer

>>8420731
>Jones is becoming the femsle GRRM
What do you mean by this? Is she fat?

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>>8421105
What do you think he means, anon?
It's clearly to do with the glacial publishing speed.

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Why in the fuck is this so popular?

>>8421110
Because most people are dumb.

>>8421110
Because lots of nerds wish they were fit, handsome, intelligent, virtuoso musicians who go to magic school and bang hot chicks.

>>8421110
The same reason Twilight, Harry Potter and Wheel of Time are popular. Lowest common demoninanator bullshit.

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Is this worth it?

I loved the Book of the New Sun, but the Long Sun just doesn’t grip me. I’m nearing a hundred pages into the first book and damn nothing has happened yet, it’s just a drawn out description of a (totally stupid) attempt to break into a rich man’s house to… beat him up? The pace is so very different from the New Sun, where at this point you’re through the whole (masterful) exposition already and eager to follow Severian out into the world.

I mean, I appreciate this series explicitly not trying to be a carbon copy of the first one, but it’s so damn boring…

>>8421238
>>8417066

Oh…

>>8421238
>Is this worth it?
Yes, assuming you get into the thematic religious parallels between New and Long Sun as well as it being related to the Short Sun.
>I loved the Book of the New Sun, but the Long Sun just doesn’t grip me. I’m nearing a hundred pages into the first book and damn nothing has happened yet, it’s just a drawn out description of a (totally stupid) attempt to break into a rich man’s house to… beat him up?
To steal the papers to get back his monestary.
The first two are very small in scale, they describe literally everything that happened in 48 hours, no more.
That said I liked the smaller more focused parts better than the large war and politics of the second half.
>The pace is so very different from the New Sun, where at this point you’re through the whole (masterful) exposition already and eager to follow Severian out into the world.
It's an inferior work, no doubt, but like most Wolfe stuff the most interesting parts to look for are religious and symbolic in nature, if you don't see those Long Sun doesn't have all that much to offer.
>I mean, I appreciate this series explicitly not trying to be a carbon copy of the first one, but it’s so damn boring…
It was, took me a while to finish it. Take a break with something else, come back to it later.

>>8418683
Altered Carbon

>>8420262
Honestly I doubt it was ever even about politics or a broken voting system, I'm pretty sure It's mostly about how uncouth the entire award is; they're literally better twitch streamers with higher production values and aesthetics.

>>8421105
Final book in the series was supposed to be out this year, but there hasnt been an update by the author in years about it. Publisher only said that it wont be coming out this year

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>>8421179
>Wheel of Time

>>8421548
It isn't even bait, the series is a steaming pile of shit, but not for teenage girls and middle age disappointed in life women, it's fantasy nerds.

>>8421622
It's not even popular outside the Anglosphere.

>>8421622
>the series is a steaming pile of shit

More like everything after the sixth book. The first half, especially the first three, were really good

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>NK Jemisin wins the Hugob Owl

Good for her. The Fifth Season was like Fury Road with more child abuse. (The Broken Kingdoms is still her best book though. Oree a qt.)

>>8420533
I really liked Janus's mystique getting peeled away over the course of the series, and I enjoyed that after being the protagonists' deus ex machina, he's about to be the antagonists' deus ex machina. Also, I hope that the Beast uses him as an adviser rather than assimilating him. And that Janus finds his waifu (?) Mya. I also like that Marcus chose his waifu Raes over Janus, even if it resulted in sending Janus away and thus fucking over humanity. Sad about poor Bobby though.

Hope the reverse trap and the angry lesbian make it out of this okay.

>>8418746
if you can deal with D&D/Forgotten Realms there are shitloads of books that deal with demihumans

>>8421626
It is, I'm not an anglo and its impossible to find a group of nerds in which at least one person hasn't read it.

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>>8421706

Top kek m8. It isn't even translated to some of the most spoken languages.

>>8421715
I'm from a small slav country.
And also, people speak English, most fantasy readers won't read translations of English works if they are older than 15.

>>8421722
Say that to Harry Potter Fans.

You're heavily implying that fantasy reading is a very popular hobby among people. So much so, that all of those people speak English.

>>8421735
>Say that to Harry Potter Fans.
Harry Potter was a thing when I was 7 or so. Nobody cares for it now outside le nostalgia
>You're heavily implying that fantasy reading is a very popular hobby among people.
Yes, let's say 10% of the male population of my generation, although depends on the city
>So much so, that all of those people speak English.
Literally everyone younger than 30 here speaks English.

>>8421750
>Literally everyone younger than 30 here speaks English.

Of course they do, you live in a irrelevant country like you said.

>>8421672
>Literally who author wins popularity contest
I guess.

>>8421834
>Multi-time Hugo Award winner
>Dependent on Patreon because literally nobody buys her books
I guess

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How do we feel about posting /oc/?

I've picked up my writing pace recently and given how nobody in the /sff/ society at my UNI is remotely interested in anything I've made, I'm turning you to guys.

>>8421871
I think this is her first Hugo win. Her other books only got nominated.

>>8418819
if you plan to continue reading revelation space, don't make the mistake of reading galactic north before the rest of the series. the book is perfect for getting a last glimpse of the universe when you've read everyting else - not to mention that it actually contains the current 'ending' of the revelation space universe... ending in quotes because there's probably a lot of room for big stories after galactic north.

>>8421925
Post it and someone will probably read it

I am looking for an easy to read and quick to pick up fantasy or science fiction book, any recommendation? Preferable one with an audiobook.

>>8422721
Player of Games, Banks

>>8422721
Revelation Space

>>8422721
Django Wexler's "The Thousand Names." Quasi-Napoleonic flintlock fantasy, solid audiobook.

>>8422918
Bonus: the audiobook is $5 on Audible if you've bought the Kindle book for $8.

>>8421672
Janus is my favorite Autist

Hopefully he gets a good end.

>>8422721
you can't read an audiobook you potato

what are you doing

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>>8422932

Tonight I finished the last part of Book Of The New Sun, a series I have been reading through the summer.

Good grief. Beguiling is the best one word I can think of, to describe it.

However, it is also charming, frustrating, engrossing, puzzling, exhausting, poetic, elusive, and profound.

>>8422997
I suggest rereading from the beginning at some point. It will blow your mind how much of what seemed arbitrary and bizarre, now makes perfect sense.

>>8422960
Truly a man I would follow to the gates of hell.

NuThread

>>8423325
>>8423325
>>8423325

>>8422732
I did a quick wikipedia search and it looked really interesting, but isn't it the second book in the series? Shouldn't I read Consider Phlebas first?

>>8422918
>>8422876

Sound fun, thank you.

>>8422941
I jog a lot. A book with an audiobook allow me to keep reading/hearing while I run.