New Sincerity

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"New Sincerity" isn't a thing. Like most of the things Dave talked about, it was just a lot of hot air.

what was wrong with the old sincerity? wasn't sincere enough?

>>8373451
it had too much of the big bad irony in it, and that makes hip twentysomethings feel bad about themselves, so now we have to be sincere in the new way

'new sincerity' is a fucking meaningless buzzword.

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>>8373472

bro it sounds like you need some new sincerity in your life

check out zadie smith and chimamanda ngozi adichie, its good for your feelings

>>8373639
this picture actually make me so nauseous

Does anyone have the picture of DFW wearing the Phantom Menace shirt?

>>8373807
lol i've seen it

would wearing a t-shirt of (at the the time) the worst Star Wars movie be ironic or sincere?

>>8373372
>>8373472
This basically.

I actually like DFW's writing, but his ideas themselves tend to be ridiculous.

>>8373639
could have used some actual new sincerity music like Daniel Johnston, Joanna Newsom, Neutral Milk Hotel

>>8374806
none of those are new sincerity music

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Wallace was not NS. He just helped developed another layer of irony, that involved tricking people into believing that sincerity might actually exist. All you have to do to realize this is:
1. Read This is Water
2. Read Good Old Neon
3. Read This is Water again

I once knew a guy who was super into DFW and considered himself a member of some kind of New Sincerity movement. He and his friends all thought like this, and all it amounted to was a apologia for their interest in YA, cartoons, LARPing and similar escapist activities for children, in the "spirit of childlike wonder". It was also accompanied with a sort of naive cheery optimism that was mind-bendingly infuriating. It was as if they had decided that being sincere meant you had to be completely un-discerning and never use your critical faculties, because that must by default mean you were being fake or pretentious.

I have no idea if this is an isolated incident or lots of DFW lovers think like this, but it was enough to make me hate New Sincerity anyway.

>>8374835
Please tell me this is a joke, dear fucking christ I have never heard something that horrifying. These kinds of misinterpretations must have been the reason why he ended himself

New sincerity doesn't exist. or its just too complicated for our brains
anyway its best not to take advice from some guy who killed himself

>>8374844
I wish I was joking. It's for this reason I've always been confused by /lit/s love of him because this place is by contrast very elitist and judgemental.

>>8375093
DFW was discerning. A critique of numbing irony does not at all imply that one has to then enjoy tedious bullshit.

>>8374835
he assigned escapist books to his lit class at Amherst (which, btw, is $42,000 a year tuition.. I'm guessing the class was 3 credit hours... you do the math how much kids paid to study that) like Stephen King, and he loved eating junk food and zoning out to TV.
>>8373324
David Foster Wallace writes ugly books from philosophical contrivances about pedestrian grievances. Anyone who cares about aesthetics, art, or literature in general need not bother.

>>8375656
Oops not Amherst* I meant Emerson.

>>8375656
I'm sure I'll get called a cunt for this but after watching that interview with him and seeing his top ten books I knew this guy was not for me. Won't ever read him. Never.

>>8373807
I need to see this

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>>8373324

>new sincerity

Plebs, it's posteriormodernism.

And the reaction it will someday spawn will be called postremomodernism.

Then will come apopostremomodernism.

Then will come metapopostremomodernism

Then will come husterometapopostremomodernism.

And that will be the Day of Judgment, and yea there will be wailing and gnashing of bollocks.

I too would like to know some New Sincerity works outside of literature, and I guess also non-DFW literary works too

>>8375687
DFW has an interview on top 10 books? I thought I saw them all

>>8375920
The Comedy starring Tim heidecker

>>8375920
Sufjan Stevens

>>8375971
Sorry. I didn't write that well. It was an artical about his top ten books. If you google it you will find it.

>>8375656
Yeah he sounds awful tbqh.

>>8374821
What was you're conclusion. I think he'd just reached a different point where he thought actually choosing what to think about leads to more neurosis. But DESU the guy in GON (huh) had already "given himself away" to the idea of himself, and had failed to choose correctly in this regard. I don't think there's actually a contradiction here in Dave's Way What 2 Live Ur Live. I assume you've read IJ.

Also as far as I'm aware the new sincerity is something he kind of wondered about in E Unibus Pluram and not a literary movement he really fleshed out or advocated for elsewhere.

Plus>>8374835

I think DFW's writing has lead me to be honest with myself when I don't want to be and if anything has steered me away from doing dumb shit like this, not that I ever did. But you see what I mean.

>>8376310
your*

>>8375656
I think he did that cus his students were little upstarts who needed taking down a peg. Plus that seems a pretty 1 dimensional take on aesthetics.

>>8375656
Lol infinite jest is pure a e s t h e t i c s. But really though

>>8375687
Bolaño also ended up reading trite detective novels and Bergman watching superficial shows like Sex and the City. This doesn't say much about their work.

DFW would have written a brilliant book about modern internet culture, why did he have to kill himself ffs

>>8376472
I'm not bothered that he liked shit (everyone does). It is the way he talked about it and tried to present himself. DFW in real life honestly came off as super ingenuine to me.

I was trying to be honest with myself before I even heard about New Sincerity, and I think my life has improved since then. Always pretending to like things ironically and being cynical all the time made me numb. I think New Sincerity is something important, but I don't think it fits as a literary movement, it doesn't need to be 'a thing'.

>>8376787
This is one of the things I don't connect with fans of DFW about-- "Always pretending to like things ironically," (cynical part... well losing cynicism can definitely be healthy). What does this phrase mean? I'm asking honestly, not trying to be a jerk, I kind of agree with >>8376513 that I find alot of the people in the New Sincerity movement ingenuine, dishonest, and insincere. Clarification for this "irony" might help. When I think of things I've pretended to like, I think of times when I've said "Yeah I like the Godfather II, it's great" so that I don't have to hear someone gasp "You've never seen the Godfather II?"

>>8373324

These are all questions you'll need to answer, if you'd like to both theorize and critique works which preach the New Sincerity.

>>8376787
Wait, people actually do this? There are actually people that don't enjoy things in a genuine way?

>>8377021
yes, all over the place. though with the replacement of hipsters with yuccies, less and less

>>8377160
That sounds incredibly depressing.

>>8373639
that looks fantastic
if i didn't have to constantly show how much better i am to get people to pay me money i would definitely be into that
i like it
good job
A1

>>8375206
>DFW was discerning
He must have been very discerning to have seen any talent in his own work.

>>8375656
>he assigned escapist books to his lit class
Yeah but the point was to teach them to articulate the flaws in them.

>>8376472
>Bergman watching superficial shows like Sex and the City
>bergman warching tv3
b-but mein volkheim

>>8376821

Apparently young Americans literally live their lives doing and saying things they don't mean for the sake of being cool, and this this is a big problem over there.

For example, people over there wear band shirts for bands they hate. I once saw a colleague wear a Smiths shirt and complemented him on it, and he said in this phony "dude bro" tone something like, "Yeah dude, they're awesome," while giggling. When I asked him if he had any favourite songs he started singing There is a Light That Never Goes Out all exagerrated like he was making fun of it, all while giggling.

>>8376472
The first season of sex and the city as actually pretty good.

>>8374806
Daniel Johnston is just sincere without the New and the capital S.

>>8376787
>Always pretending to like things ironically and being cynical all the time made me numb.
How exactly do you like, say, a certain band or an album ironically? Do you listen to it together with friends and make fun of it, like some people watch shitty movies to laugh about them, or do you really listen to it on your own pretending to like albeit knowing you think it's terrible? If the latter, what exactly is/was your thought process while doing so?

>>8378267
>>8376787
bump before i go to bed
would appreciate a response

>>8373324

New sincerity is just another superficial meme. It's not even a big movement.

Just write what you enjoy, that's all. If you are enjoying the writing process that is all you can ask for.

>>8373460
Back in my day, hip twenty-somethings were accused of overindulging in irony

>>8376821
Like things ironically is pretty much what >>8378267 said - it's like watching a shitty movie with your friends and making fun of it, even tho you trully enjoy that movie, but you don't want people to make fun of you because you like those sort of movies, you don't want people to think your taste is shitty. For me, in the end, it's all about social acceptance, to have your taste in books, music and movies validated by some standard, without ever really thinking about what you just watched, or read, or listened to (4chan in a nutshell). Yes, i like Haruki Murakami, yes, I like Paramore, and i know those things get a lot of shit from people, so i used to like them ironically, like "Oh yeah, veeeery original Mr. Haruki *tips fedora*", but now I think about the things I like, and I find the reasons why I like stuff. So now I can say i like things that are not liked by my peers without feeling ashamed, because I can show why those things are good and not be just another drone who goes through 4chan like a zombie talking shit and creating memes, discarding things like they are inherently bad because i've been told so through the years by people who don't know shit and were also repeating other people who didn't know shit.

>>8380724
Well that's good, Anon. I'm glad you're actually enjoying things now.

>>8380724
>and not be just another drone who goes through 4chan like a zombie talking shit and creating memes, discarding things like they are inherently bad because i've been told so through the years by people who don't know shit and were also repeating other people who didn't know shit.

Glad you're being sincere, but desu you're still kind of an asshole with that "everyone who doesn't share my opinion is just pretending" attitude.

>>8380724
Ah okay, so you didn't pretend to like things you didn't like for the sake of appearing ironic, edgy, funny or whatever, like the one Smiths guy >>8378107 described, but you pretended to not like things or rather to like them ironically although you actually wholeheartedly like them? This way it's not all that stupid as I imagined but it doesn't seem ironic to me - more like you were insecure and anxious

>>8373324
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK9XfgDse4E
You'll thank me guys later.

>>8380746
i didn't said people who doesn't share my opinion is pretending, i just said a lot of people who lurks 4chan tends to follow what 4chan says it's good without ever really thinking why those things are considered good or even if they actually like these stuff. I don't think you should like the same books i like, if you think Murakami is shitty, then fine, but try to rationalize why you find his books bad, because we all know that most people who criticize his work here have never actually read him. But hey, if you've read him and formed your opinion on why is it bad or good, then it's okay.

>>8381597
Oh yeah, this used to happen too, but in a smaller scale. In Brazil we have a lot of music genres that are, in general opinion, considered bad. Usually those genres are appreciated by people from the lower class (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_405oMg3s example), but people from middle class and uper class tend to listen to these stuff ironically, and that's very common. I used to do this, but in those cases without real appreciation behind my ilayers of irony.

how can I tell if an author is being generally sincere or just mocking sincerity

>>8382134
And I didn't revised before posting, so it's pretty badly written, i'm sorry for that

>>8381872
what the fuck am i watching?

hollow first world westerners struggling for sense and direction. fascism, supremacism, consumism and appeal to emotion and other intoxicant ideologies thrive in times defined by such struggles. in the end, ironic or not, all is shit, to be eaten and shat, endlessly, till the world is no more.

>>8378083
Good one.
No, seriously.
You made me laugh.

>>8378096
No it wasn't, and even if you were right, I would be furious if that's what my private school college tuition was going towards.
>>8380724
What about liking something like Piranha 3d, Birdemic, or The Room then? People clearly like it ironically but get genuinely laughs and enjoyment from it. Just trying to get the difference here, or why this is important enough for an entire literary movement to tackle.
>>8378107
Does this attitude apply on a larger, unhealthier scale? I mean a whole literary movement dedicated to irony and television addiction seems almost forced. Are we still under the shadow of Pynchon and DeLillo because they write about capital, terrorism, destiny, and approach technology and the post-war world with a much broader and less decisive view?

>>8382758
>No it wasn't,
Yes it was.

>>8379132
where did that get them

>>8382758
I never said it was important enough for an entire literary movement to tackle, actually i said I took this "new sincerity" thing before i knew it even existed. It's just something i think improved my life in many ways.

>>8382765
http://www.openculture.com/2013/02/david_foster_wallaces_1994_syllabus.html
read AIMS OF COURSE
While you're at it, quit blindly shaping someone into your own ideal, and only speak about things you know about. Thanks.

>>8382783
Doesn't contradict what I said.
>While you're at it, quit blindly shaping someone into your own ideal
The ironing.

>>8382758
People don't like the room ironically, they like it because it's shamelessly sincere, liking it ironically would entail a reaction like >>8378107

>>8382805
Jesus. With those reading comprehension skills, you wouldn't have even gotten into a mid-tier school like Emerson to study James Patterson with the Walrus himself.

>>8382838
Jesus

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>>8373324
Is pic related new sincerity?

My gut is telling me yes desu senpai.

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>>8373324
though it has a bad reputation by how tumblr SJWs have used it, I think this won't disappoint you if youre looking for instances of NS. From what I understand it embodies NS because of its large adult fanbase and themes which don't align with anti-emotional western masculinity. However I am still a little fuzzy on what NS means in the first place. Everytime a discussion about NS is brought up on this board no one really addresses exactly what it is. All i know from reading these posts is that is has something to do with irony.

OP, NS means National Socialism.

>>8383290
I feel like yes. Maybe not intentionally so but watching it gave me some of the feelings you guys have been talking about NS in this thread

>>8376472
Bolaño did it because he was sick and angered with classic literature forms as a meaning to legitimate writing, he also read (stealing them from big bookstores) pornography books... Read "Entre paréntesis" Anon, it will give you a better understanding on his ground for writing.

>>8382693

wtf i hate fascism now

wat

>>8383471
new sincerity is sincerity for the sake of not being ironic,
unlike sincerity, which is just honesty shared between people.

New sincerity is the final layer of irony. It is an ironic imitation of sincerity, not because it wants to be sincere, but because it doesn't want to be ironic(insincere).

it's like the hipsters that do things to be contrarians.

sincerity
>I like these shoes(subject to criticism which hurts the feels)
irony
>I like these shoes because they have that dorky 90's vibe and I want to look ~vaporwave~(distances the wearer from the shoes, safe from criticism about shoes and can safely hide within the ~vaporwave~ culture)
new sincerity
>I LIKE THESE SHOES AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK *girl takes a selfie in the shoes. armpit hair is somehow visible* (subject to criticism, but welcomes criticism because it validates the person's identity and how they're unique and an individual. you go girl, keep those haters fed.)

I hope thats thorough enough

>>8383768
What's post-sincerity gonna be like?

>>8383776
New sincerity is post-sincerity

>>8383845
Okay but what about post new sincerity then?

>>8383850
Post New Sincerity is when the West collapses all over again and we revert back to feudalism and religion.

>>8383850
I don't fuckin know there aren't that many dimensions to just fuckin liking something

>>8383865
You could like everything an equal amount.

>>8383850

It's called neo-irony

>>8383884
What's it like?

>>8383900
>S U C C
>U C C S
>C C S U
>C S U C

OP here

>>8383471
Ohh I never even thought of Steven Universe as a new sincerity thing. I've seen it I like it I can definitely see it. Good example anon.

>>8383490
New Sincerity is a form of Nazism I guess

>>8383768
That's the answer I've been looking for

What would DFW think of 4chan?

>Can you list some New Sincerity works outside of literature?

C O M M U N I T Y


M

M

U

N

I

T

Y

>>8373639
>implying New Balance aren't the best sneakers