>I don't read American Literature

Is there any other kind?

>>8352176
same and I don't read dead white male literature or even alive white female literature or even male literature. you should try it. gloria naylor is my shit

The problem with American literature is that Americans tend to champion mediocre books in order to act like they matter more on a global scale than they do literature-wise.

People try to put ridiculous corncobbers up with gods like James Joyce and then get offended when they get called out on it.

If Americans were less dishonest in evaluating their own culture people wouldn't feel so opposed to it.

American Literature is watered down.

I'm American, so anything I read is American Literature

>>8352189
The Recognitions was called the American Ulysses.

>>8352191
That's funny because your mother is watered down by my seamen right now.

>>8352189
But 19th century American-lit is the greatest era of literature.

>>8352198
Deep down you know it's true.

>>8352195
They also call their local little meme sport events things like 'World Series'.

Americans want to be number one, and in a lot of things they actually are, but when they are not they act like a spoiled child and either pretend their stuff is top tier when it isn't, or they go full sour grapes and pretend not to care about it in the first place and for example play handegg instead of football all isolationist.

>>8352176
Steinbeck was a misogynist and white supremacist.

Only American literature I read is Harper Lee

>>8352209
Should I tell you what your mother knows deep down?

>>8352202
Melville is great but other than that I'm not really impressed by transcendalism which is romanticism 2: corncob boogaloo or Mark 'Corncob pipe' Twain to be honest.

Especially not when you consider this is the same time Proust and Tolstoy and such were at it.

>>8352176
Yeah m8 we all saw that post in that Gaddis thread and then some guy called him edgy or some other dry adjective

>>8352202
England, France and Russia all had better lit in the 19th century.

>>8352227
>Tolstoy
>Tolstoy
>Tolstoy

>>8352189
p much this

you got melville and gaddis and a handful of other great works but not much beyond that. a lot of corncobbers.

>american """"""philosophy"""""

>>8352227
Melville, Emerson, Whitman, Hawthorne, Twain, and Dickinson. Also, Proust did not publish anything until 1913 so he is not included in the same century. Tolstoy is great but the whole of Russia did not produce the same caliber of work as America did in this time period.

>>8352262
>corncobbers
Explain this meme to a non-American

>>8352262
>corncobbers
You're aware of where that comes from, right?
Nabokov. The legalized US citizen.

>>8352267
>melville
great
>emerson
good
>whitman
meh
>hawthorne
garbage
>twain
mostly garbage
>dickinson
good

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>>8352267
>putting those literally whos up against Gogol, Turgenev, Goncharov, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky and Chekhov

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>>8352277
>I have shit taste and the rest of the world should too!
Okay senpai.

>>8352277
>Hawthorne garbage
I need Harold Bloom to shelter me in a safe-space, right now.

>>8352269
He was a Russian aristocrat in America, that's why he had a great cultured outsiders look at the naked emperor shit seppos call GOAT.

>>8352227
trash except for the whale lad

>>8352288
>>8352289
you've read some wikipedia articles on moby dick and leaves of grass and rolled with it. prove to me you actually read any of these authors with a semblance of depth beyond meme works.

>>8352189
>>8352211
/thread

>>8352301
meant >>8352267

>>8352176
Show me something worthy to read from America, and I will. I have yet to see it.

>>8352419
Edgy.

>>8352419
Old Man and the Sea by Hemingway

>>8352419
It would be extremely American.

>>8352461
4God and country

>>8352277
>>8352286
I just had the image of a scene with all of these people together in one room and felt that special tingle in my spine that I get when I'm about seal the deal.

>>8352309
Not the guys you are responding to, but I've read Moby Dick and Leaves of Grass. I'm not sure why you think reading is so terribly difficult. It seems you are projecting about the whole Wikipedia thing, friendo.

>>8352505
if they actually read the names they listed theyw ouldn't have made such stupid posts friendo

>>8352176
I don't and never have with the exception of The Great Gatsby which I was forced to read in secondary school

>>8352176
'Kay

High school ruined American literature in Europe, we're forced to read dense, overly liberal and pretentious authors like Harper Lee, Steinbeck, Arthur Miller etc.

>implying there isn't great American literature

The US has David Pynchon, John Green, the list could go on.

Poe, Hawthorne, Lovecraft, Frost, Gaddis are all great, desu, also the only Americans to whose greatness I can attest. I tried reading The Rabbit series, got too bored. Bret Hart is very good, O'Henry is also good, but Twain I never found to be what he is cracked up to be.

>>8352599
Literally who.

>>8352211
It's called the "World Series" because it was originally sponsored by a newspaper called the New York World Newspaper, you dip.

>>8352757
You ain't gonna fool nobody.

>>8352189
I agree with this post.

Americans are as insular about literature as they are all other forms of culture.

Moby Dick is based though.

>>8352189
> try to put ridiculous corncobbers up with gods like James Joyce

I hope you're posting from Ireland pal

I mean, we did produce Faulkner, Twain, McCarthey, and Morrison.

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>>8352864

>>8352419
borges is pretty good

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>>8352267
wew lad.

this is the best you can come up with?

embarrassing desu

Who are considered the best British authors of all time? I'm serious. With the exception of Shakespeare and Chaucer (who barely retain any traits of that affected and decadent society) they are rarely discussed here?

>>8352671
Well, Twain is great for kids.

>>8352888
James Joyce for one you dunce

>>8352888
I hate plays so much, I haven't read much Shakespeare, I suppose I'm missing out a lot.

>>8352878
They're talking about the US.

>>8352904
????

In defense of the US I must mention John Kennedy Toole, a giant who died like a rat.

>>8352911
Wrong. Who said US?

>>8352911
Well, then why did they say America?

>>8352911
Op says American you fucking toolbags
How did we get named a smart board?

>>8352920
I'd say because most of the world call the US, America. If we're talking about the whole America's literature then it's different. Borges, Bolaño, Vargas Llosa, Casares must be invoked.

>>8352904
Any endearment of his colonial brethren is certainly absent from his writings. It mainly centers around all things Irish.

Are you telling me your best writer is an Irishmen in blood and in spirit?

>>8352926
Semantics. Time waste.

Nabokov wrote and taught in America and in my library his books are found in the American fiction section.

Can we claim him even though he's a Drago?

>>8352952
But then Brodsky would have to be mentioned as well.

>>8352952
you can claim at most half of him. realistically probably around 1/3. russian-ness pervades his works.

for comparison, in contrast conrad can be considered british for practical purposes since polish influences are negligible.

What's the importance of claiming writers to your country? Chauvinism is cancer

>>8352957
I like Conrad. He's one of the least sissy Englishmen writing during that time.

What about Henry James and Eliot?

You want them?

The 1800s were great literary years for many countries. The same can be said about the early 1900s. America was always in the race but I'd say there is no clear winner.

From the mid 1900s on, America has become the king of literature.

>>8352189
Joyce was a pooftah who didn't know what the fuck he was doing and shat out the big, steaming log that is Ulysses with a shit-eating grin on his stupid face

>>8353000
>this is what americucks who dont read anything other than dfw and pinecone memes seriously believe

gaddis is like the only real contender you have going for you

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>>8352983
>""""""Englishmen""""""

>>8352578
>overly liberal and pretentious authors like Harper
You don't really know what liberal or pretentious mean, do you? Harper Lee was pretty much the opposite of that. Not to mention the fact that she only write one fucking book. You didn't read "authors like Harper Lee," you read To Kill A Mockingbird, an incredibly short book. Sorry it fried your European brain with its stunningly pretentious and liberal portrayal of a complex issue from a child's perspective. Over here we read it in fourth grade

>>8353031
It's such a shame they forced her to release the incredibly shitty unfinished draft they released last year.

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SO LET IT BE WRITTEN

SO LET IT BE DONE

>>8353068
>No Poe

>>8353014
I'm reading Heart of Darkness

I like a lot of American novelists.

American """"""poetry"""""" is another matter entirely.

>>8353078
Fucking kek. He's the worst of the corncobbers.

>>8353100
The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as best I could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge

>>8353100
He's actually a literary genius. Have you read his criticism? But his ancestors were American revolutionaries and he was involved in a few Republican networks during the 19th century that promoted the arts. So the Anglo-scholars perpetuate the myth of Poe, the doomed incestuous drunk.

ITT yuropoor butthurt inferiority complex

How they wish they were apart of the greatest cultural and economic achievement in human history

How they envy the US for producing IJ

>>8353050
They didn't force shit you libtard, three separate state investigations found her competent and in-full knowledge; Marja Mills is a disgusting individual who got caught lying through her teeth to hack journalists.

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>>8352419
He wrote the Brazilian equivalent of Ulysses.

>no one has even mentioned fitzgerald

>>8353149
Fitzgerald, with the exception of the Great Gatsby, is a Jazz Age writer, not an American writer. If you want to understand te Jazz Age, he's great. If you want good writing, you're kind of shit out of luck

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>>8353137
Many Europeans are still having trouble processing that the United States has been their cultural and artistic superior since the end of World War II. Centuries of assumed intellectual dominance has robbed them of hunger and encouraged complacency, and now they're watching dumbfounded as their proles learn American English from American image forums and their elites enroll in American universities (which are internationally regarded to be much more prestigious than their own). Within a couple generations Europeans will culturally be more American than French or German or British, and the conversation will be moot.

>>8353176
Jazz is a uniquely American phenomena

>>8353205
Kek
Eurocucks on suicide watch.

>>8353137
the british haven't been relevant for a long time. but thanks to post colonialism, we still teach shakespeare in our school like he's objectively the best thing ever, and our parents talk about the beetles like they invented music even though they were just glorified pop music for women

>>8353000
>this is what eurofags that only know about /lit/ memes actually think.

Come on, anon. Try a little harder.

>>8353206
He didn't write about JAZZ, you numbnuts, he wrote about the JAZZ AGE

1919-1929? The Roaring Twenties?

I doubt Fitzgerald ever really listened to that much jazz. He was very much a fuddy duddy

>>8353205
>>8353214
>we have the best unis so we must have the best literature

>>8353235
i think you intended that reply for >>8353176
your outraged seems unreasonable for >>8353206

>>8353138
Whatever the case the book is a pile of half baked steaming shit.

>>8353245
You must be getting tired, grasping at all Tahoe straws like that.

>>8353255
Because it didn't fit your narrative?

>>8353257
>/lit/
>Your place for hot new idioms

>>8353205
What's the point of having good universities if people get out of them with a massive debt up their asses? The few that can actually get in. That's why your masses are so idiotized, while the better parts of Europe at least have an acceptable standard regarding the population's culture. That's why you have an idiot and a crook on the verge of running your country.

>>8353274
Why don't the best American unis have more lenient acceptance rates and just filter the kids who don't try out after first year. Isn't that what Canada does?

>>8353274
You're retarded. Those universities are also hard to get into, and guarantee you a spot on the top of the job market. The trade off is worth it, because it's literally the best education in the world.

>>8353293
>Canadian universities
>best in the anglosphere, let alone the world
Another canuck deluded by CBC propaganda

>>8353293
Yeah, but just a little part of the population has access to them. Then you have the other US universities, not Ivy League or anything, but still pretty good. Still not everyone can afford them and the ones that do usually acquire massive debt. I rather have free universities, even if the quality is not the same as the top US ones.

>>8353305
Well that's embarrassing.

>>8353205
Europeans, don't fall for the American marketing techniques! That's what they're good at.

>>8353313
But that doesn't make any sense.
Give everybody the same education, then the job market either becomes increasingly too competitive, meaning that the company will need other ways to filter out the best employee, or the competitiveness goes away completely and innovation grinds to a halt. Private universities are part of what made the US the only world superpower.

>>8353324
Mein gott.

>>8353330
Was it all a ruse?

>>8353324
So education just to the privileged? Unemployment rates are about the same. Take Germany for example, about 4.7% and the US about 4.9%. And the population is more educated in average.
Who cares about being a superpower?

>>8353338
It's not just to the privileged though. The United States has an incredible amount of social programs dedicated to lower income children getting in to college, from grants to scholarships to work programs, and working hard enough gets you in to Harvard, regardless of your financial status.

>>8352839
I'm not, Joyce's genius isn't dependant on nationalism.

>>8352926
>shermans literally this desperate for lit cred that they claim the spics they're trying to build a wall against

>>8353330
Not meming but the septics are the biggest suckers for pure ideology in the civilised world

>>8353345
>and working hard enough gets you in to Harvard

This is what the upper middle class sincerely believes. It's true, but "working hard" for the average lower middle class white kid or poor black kid doesn't entail much more than impressing mom and dad with straight As. Most find out far too late into high school that Harvard wants to see not just As but a near perfect GPA along with extracurricular activities that make you seem like the next Mother Theresa or Mark Zuckerberg.

>>8353345
I find that delusional. It's extremely hard to get a grant or a scholarship.

>>8353401

There's an entire cottage industry of books, tutors, and videos on how to get into Harvard.

There is literally no excuse

I only read American Science Fiction. Not even meming.

>>8353401
I agree completely, although Mother Theresa is an inmense fraud.

>>8353408

> in b4 le reverse racism against Whites!!111

Fuck you guys, try getting into these schools as an Asian

These places are pulling shit out their ass ("holistic admissions") to keep us Asian 'horde' from getting into their beloved bourgeoise shithole

>>8353416
>it's super hard being the single most privileged group of people in the United States
Nobody cares.

>>8353422
>Asians get discriminated against by shitty admissions team, affirmative action, and quotas.
>Whites don't bat an eye
JUST

>>8353416
Asians are just too good a minority, friend.

You aren't inferior. That's why you don't get people insisting you're equal.

>>8353407
>extremely hard
Unless you're white, black, Latino, foreign, or over the age of 18.

>>8353416
As they should. There are plenty of Asians in the Ivy League. Why would Harvard want 80% of their students to be anti social Asians that probably wont be able to find a job in consulting or finance because they're weird af?

>>8353426
>Asians make more money, are better educated, spend less time in prison, and are better off from virtually every social metric than every single other demographic in the United States
>still they find time to complain about racism because John Harvard didn't suck them off when they applied to his school

>>8353408
>books, tutors, and videos on how to get into Harvard

That are all inaccessible and/or unknown to the average lower middle class or poor person. For obvious reasons, otherwise qualified poor students don't have Harvard on their mind until junior year of high school.

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>European pleb culture is American culture
>Actual European culture is impermeable to it
Burgers stay mad

>>8353477
have you seen what analyst classes at big 4 and IBD look like now? are you retarded?

>>8353491
>>8353491
Jesus Christ your argument is based on the literal assumption that lower class people don't have access to these things, when in fact 99% of the US is Internet capable, and do I fact have access to any parcel of information out there.

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First time browsing /lit/. Good thing i don't.

>>8353512
I'm talking about outside encouragement to go to these resources. I'm not saying they're literally impossible to access.

Are people really arguing that the higher education system of the US works? What the fuck?

>>8353688
>same average IQ as the UK
>Still setting the bar for scientific papers published, patents, and have the top ranked universities in the world
Yup.
What are you, retarded?

>>8353703

Ignore this guy >>8353688, he's clearly a pleb who didn't go to a patrician school and now works in IT or something

>>8353703
Your masses are idiotic. That's why you're getting either Trump or Clinton. Good luck.

>>8353752
>in the wake of brexit
I wish you good fortune.

>>8353765
>Assuming I'm British. I'll take it as a compliment to my English.

>>8352176
>I don't read
full stop
reading is for nerds

>>8353527
LOL

>>8353765
>Implying Brexit wasn't last England's saving grace

>>8353688
Where does the "higher education system" work?

>>8352288

Oh please. Goncharov is painfully formulaic. The only thing innovative about him was his ennui-ravaged character.

Not even American, but to deny they have a god-tier literary tradition is just insane, or alternatively, boring contrarianism.

>>8353482
If the admissions were fair, then Asians would make up the majority of Harvard students.

>>8353889
Scandinavia, Germany, Iceland

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>Are people really arguing that the higher education system of the US works? What the fuck?

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>>8353903
>Germany

You need to stop reading reddit senpai.

Germany's higher education system is so overcrowded students have to wait weeks after term has started to attend their welcoming ceremony, fight over seats, sit and study in corridors, people leave lectors 30 minutes early in an attempt to get a seat in the next class etc.

>>8353942
Oh and after you've finished your awarded a degree that's literally worthless than the paper its printed on, it isn't like there are any graduate level jobs any way.

>>8353960
Bullshit. The unemployment rate for people with a tertiary education is around 2%.

>>8354013
>Spend 4-6 years getting a degree
>Have to work in call centre because #3500 in line for grant money
You probably believe the STEM shortage myth too.

>>8354022
>Fallacy of anecdotal evidence.

Unemployment rate for tertiary education in the US is around 3.7%

>>8354043
Over-qualification actually become such a issue they stopped publishing government statistics on it back in 2005, the latest statistics we have are 34.3% for simple over-qualification and a additional 12.1% for over-skilled.

40% of the US population is creationist and a slightly higher percentage doesn't believe in evolution.

>>8353894
If you don't think Oblomov is god tier you should end your life, senpai.

>>8354092
>not being creationist but still not believing in evolution

the fuck is wrong with seppos?

>>8352189
Joyce fucking sucks

>>8354143
just end yourself sofly fampois

>>8352599
>David Pynchon

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>>8354660
>who is meme man
>>8354143
"It is wonderful to fuck a farting woman when every fuck drives one out of her. I think I would know Nora’s fart anywhere. I think I could pick hers out in a roomful of farting women. It is a rather girlish noise not like the wet windy fart which I imagine fat wives have. It is sudden and dry and dirty like what a bold girl would let off in fun in a school dormitory at night. I hope Nora will let off no end of her farts in my face so that I may know their smell also. "
- James Joyce, Author of Ulysses, Dubliners, The Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man, and Finnegans Wake

Joyce wears the patch because of Nora's dank farts.
You ever heard of Jenkem?
I'll give you a quick run over.

"Jenkem is a supposed inhalant and hallucinogen created from fermented human waste.[1] In the mid-1990s, it was reported to be a popular street drug among Zambian street children. They would put the feces and urine in a jar and cover it with a balloon then let it ferment out in the sun, then afterwards they would inhale the fumes created.[2][3][4][5] In November 2007, there was a moral panic in the United States after widespread reports of jenkem becoming a popular recreational drug in middle and high schools, though the true extent of the practice has since been called into question."

now you're getting a direct connection of fart to ur fuckin dick and face
this nigga OD'd on Jenkem

Nora's Darn Farts were so dank it killed em
#RIPJOYCE

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>>8352176
>only latin ameroocan

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I concede that James Joyce is the best author of the past 200 years, perhaps a contender for best prose author ever, in any language.

Other than James Joyce and Samuel Beckett (Molloy, Malone, the Unnameable) however, most of the significant prose in the English language of the past 200 hundred years has came from the United States. Fitzgerald, Pynchon, Melville, Hawthorne. The best "British" authors of this modern period have been Dickens, who for all his talent is by no means on one hundred percent solid critical footing, and Joseph Conrad (Polack).

Anything before this period, Britain of course steals the show. Tristram Shandy and the Anatomy of Melancholy both being meme trilogy worthy novels and John Milton's style being the model for clearness and diction. But their culture and tastes just became incredibly insipid and shallow after 1800 somehow at least in prose.

Verse-wise, the Brits have the rest of the English speaking world beaten then and now-ish; poetry being kind of a fallen art form now.

>>8352268
faulkner, the writer of corncobby chronicles --- nabokov

faulkner actually did have a scene somewhere wherein someone had a corncob shoved into them

>>8352929
>>8352926
>états-unisiens

US genocide when

>>8354720
>Beckett
>English language

>>8353903
>Scandinavia
The only scandinavian country with good education is the one that isn't scandinavian.

>>8353376
>the septics
?

>>8356358
Septic tank - Yank.

The boy's probably from Queensland.

>>8353345

Always surprises me to see how delusional people are when it comes to social psychology. A kid who underachieves at an intelligent test at fifteen is not going to be intelligent at twenty. A kid from a
lower income family might perform as good as someone from an upper class family, it's just highly fucking unlikely it'll happen regularly. That kid will be one, maybe two, out of ten to do so.

Are there statistics for the socioeconomic background of IVY League graduates? How many percent are from working-class and poor neighborhoods?

>>8356379
Common British term for 'American'.

>>8356394
How many working-class kids are financially able to get to an Ivy League?

>>8356406
I know, but it's more common in Australia.

>>8356451
ivy league has full ride scholarships idiot, they meet 100% cause they can afford to

>>8356464
What are the requirements? Don't you have to be a genius?

>>8356480
Sure, but it's not like dumb kids from rich families take up all the spaces that smart kids from poor families could take. Sure, there's a legacy preference, but they also want to keep their reputation. Mostly, regardless of who you are you have to be smart to get in to Harvard.

>>8352578
Is Arthur Miller dense or overly liberal? The Crucible is about McCarthyism, and Death of a Salesman is basically the Great Gatsby in play form (swap it out with A Streetcar Named Desire)

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>>8353345
>and working hard enough gets you in to Harvard, regardless of your financial status.
Yeah no

>corncobby

It's interesting that so many people seem to be content with regurgitating a single word of a stuck-up Russian prose masturbator instead of putting any thought into their dismissal.

>>8356501
>butthurt average intelligence guy detected

>>8356491
you have to be, depending on your race/demographic:

genius if asian
pretty smart/work hard if you're white
work hard if you're black/female/latino

to get into harvard/etc.

>>8356612
>female is a race

>>8356623
>race/demographic

and yes as far as college adcoms are concerned "female" is considered similarly as "black" in terms of categories. if you're fmemale and black/latino/other form of underprivileged you can get into a top school while being average/below average in almost all regards as long as you have a single "sell" that can be marketed

>>8352195
Knausgaard is called the Norse Proust. So?

>>8356630
>>race/demographic
>the point
>your """head"""

>>8356659
By fucking who?

Has anyone ever read a book through a phone?

>>8356688
>not reading Moby Dick from a Motorola Razr
It's the way Melville meant it to be read

>>8356670
I think that's his point, mostly.

>>8356661
did your parents drop you on the head as a child?

>>8356803
We're talking about a renowned literary critic who called The Recognitions the American Ulysses.
So a voice of relative authority.

>>8356670
By fucking whom?*

>>8356848
Thanks family.

>>8356688
Venus in Furs

some plays

>>8356612
very subtle /pol/

females have been outperforming males in college and high school for quite awhile now.

>>8356860
>8356860
nothing /pol/ about it
"ease" of getting into a top ~10- 20 college goes something like, from hardest to easiest:

asian male
asian female
white male
latino male
white female
latino female
black male
black female

>>8356874
Okay, man, I know this is bait but:
You're retarded.
It's significantly easier to get into an Ivy League college if you're a white male, because chances are your parents were white and went to the Ivy League school in question. The legacy preference that was mentioned is a real thing. Also 90% of the students attending an Ivy League college have parents that can afford it, and that's significantly less likely to be a Latino or Black student.

>>8356891
legacy is more important at schools like stanford and dartmouth, and are becoming less important/non existent at harvard/mit/princeton. yale is somewhere in between.

look if you look at caltech for example as a school that does not look at any socioeconomic factors (race, gender, legacy, etc.) you end up with a school thats 60 -70 percent male and 40 - 50% asian. compare that to, say, MIT which gets 50 - 55% male and 20 - 25% asian

>>8356891
>It's significantly easier to get into an Ivy League college if you're a white male, because chances are your parents were white and went to the Ivy League school in question

I'm going to assume you meant if you're a white male at an Ivy League uni chances are your parents are white and went to the Ivy League in question. This still isn't true but I would say chances are a white male's parents are highly educated and either went to very good schools or graduated from college and went on to be quite successful.

This goes back to the earlier point in the thread which was basically saying if you're a lower middle class white kid or poor black kid the scales are still tipped against you despite affirmative action and 100% grants. No one in your community and, most tragically, probably not even any of your teachers are going to be able to guide you on the path to an Ivy League university. There satisfied enough with good grades. Upper middle class kids of all races are usually expected to get good grades, and their private schools or posh public schools funded by the upper middle class tax dollars practically have the stated goal of getting your kid into an ivy.

>>8356921
"No"

>>8356816
Not to my knowledge.

What else should I read if Moby Dick is my favorite novel?

>>8357389
The Recognitions.

>>8357389
bartleby

it's better

>>8356891
>all white males have parents who attended an Ivy
Progressivism really did a number on you, huh

>>8357389
mason&dixon

>>8357665
Wew lad.
You're a tard.

>>8352215
>Steinbeck was a misogynist and white supremacist.
Are these supposed to be good?