Does something like evil exist?

Don't you watch the news?

>>8343153
yes, leftists

Catholics will tell you, "yes."

Otherwise, it's a general descrip ascribed to overwhelmingly acknowledged bad things.

>>8343161

We're living in the time of 100% meme-based political discourse.

Trump.
His lack of knowledge or ability makes him unwittingly the hand of Satan.

before this thread turns into a political shitfest, i wanted to share my theory. i don't think that there is any evil that is evil for the sake of being evil.
no act of malice that is carried out purely for malice's sake.

whenever someone does anything that is looked at by the other that is evil, the person who is carrying it out is doing it simply because it is gratifying to that person in some way or the other.

prove me wrong lit. show me one person who was evil for evil's sake and didn't do things because they fit their ideology or sense of gratification in any way.

>>8343438
>beta cucks here so non-confrontational they can't even talk about politics even when it's blatantly referenced with the word "evil"

>>8343438
even the most villainous characters seem or appear to do things out of self interest or because they fit the criteria for what the believe or because they simply enjoy it. no one dos evil things because they're evil

>>8343444
no man. it's just tedious, dull and boring. do you really expect there to be a proper "talk"/ discussion of politics here? it will turn into shitty circlejerking and mudflinging and the quality of the thread will be fucken terrible. there's an entire board dedicated to politics here and we all know how it turned out. political discussion usually is a shitfest and best avoided.

>>8343431
He's actually the result of "Christianity"--a false flag for God which is actually a front group for Satanism.

Their "Christ" is the anti-Christ and the deceiver of mankind.

>>8343457
Hi Muslim, please don't blow up my favorite coffee shop k.

>>8343438
>no act of malice that is carried out purely for malice's sake

Thanks. I needed a laugh.

I've seen the look of focused glee in a person's eyes when they're causing physical pain. It's all the proof I need.

>>8343438
I can imagine a scenario in which someone is forced to kill someone for someone else's ideology and absolutely detesting the act.

>but it's not evil if he was FORCED to do it, then it was the person forcing him to do it that was evil

ok.

>>8343153

"As a mark is not set up for the sake of missing the aim, so neither does the nature of evil exist in the world."

Evil is either corrupted virtue, or virtue that misses its mark. Someone who does nothing is neither virtuous nor evil. It is only people who aim and let loose that do good or evil. So whether evil exists or not is a metaphysical matter, but at any rate evil is just the opposite side of the coin to good. It's "the opposite" to good in perhaps a Nietzschean sense, in that it's cut from the same cloth, and shares 99% in common with good.

>>8343461
>>8343444
really proud to see fellow redpillers here.

Deus Vult, brethren

>>8343461
I'm sorry.

We must never analyze or criticize Christianity because of feels.

>>8343463
Charlie. o_o

>>8343438
Cmon man shut up and drink your fucking hemlock

It sure does, just go to Wikipedia and read about Oskar Dirlewanger.

If you can find an adjective that fits him, but it isn't "evil", I'd like to know.

>>8343487

He was ridding the world of treacherous vermin. Hardly 'evil'.

>>8343466

Except (an addendum) I think sometimes people intentionally choose to miss the mark, which is another kind of evil, perhaps pure evil. It's usually driven by the fallacious belief that one can only express one's freedom by violating what is proscribed, consequently it's commonly found in people who feel oppressed in some way. Every Genocide has this at its root; that to dehumanize and mass murder others feels to a fool the most life-affirming action possible.

Nope, only evil actions (and people who commit actions more evil than the average) do

>>8343492
He failed. Thus, he was not successful against evil. Perhaps he failed because he was only pretending to be against the "treacherous vermin."

Don't be too quick to trust, anon.

File: tips.jpg (38KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 1280x720px

>>8343492

>>8343495
>not evil inactions

oops.

>>8343503
You have a lot to learn about the redpill, brainwashed idiot

>>8343506
True that

File: tiptuptoplel.png (51KB, 370x370px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 370x370px

>>8343515

>>8343517
>elbow bump

>>8343521
when you find out how deep the rabbit hole goes, you will never be yourself again

>>8343487
misguided

>>8343557
This is true. I went there.

Heed this warning, anon...

>>8343524
Had to google that shit

>>8343469
>fellow redpillers here.
omg kys

>>8343515
Shouldnt you be somewhere else thrwing around shitty memewords ? You 20 yo aitist r9k basement cuntlet ?

>>8343589
was it worth it

>>8343585
Nice samefagging
now kindly fuck off back to your cesspool which is pol
I heard theres a good hillary vs trump thread ud need to shove up your unlubed butthole

>>8343626
Not much, all I saw were Obama pics

>>8343629
You sound like one who has risen above the false binary of partisan politics.

>>8343659
>binary
Kys

>>8343462
you fucking twat you missed the entire point of the post
>focused glee
precisely. they did it because they enjoyed it. they liked it. stirner would be proud of that person for being an egotist and doing things that they enjoy irrespective of moral spooks

>>8343463
he did it because he felt he had no choice. he didn't do it because of evil's sake.even the person forcing him to do it wasn't evil. he was forcing him to do it because of some political ideology. not for evil's sake itself. there is no evil for evil' sake. it can always be explained as self interest or some ideological consequence.

>>8343485
i don't get why it is so absurd to imagine that every act that is normatively considered evil can be explained as having some cause behind it apart from "evil" itself.

even sadists who enjoy inflicting harm do it because they fucking ENJOY it. not because inflicting harm is evil and they want to be evil for no reason.

there is no true evil. any act of evil that you think of will have an explanation behind it that would be other than "because it was an evil thing to do".


also, how is "is there evil" even a fucking question when there is no universal metric to assess what is "evil".

when a tiger kills a deer, do you call it evil? no.
are animals called evil for whatever they do? no. then why are humans called evil for whatever reason? we're deterministic machines who do things (sometimes normatively considered evi) lto maximize our utility. not because those acts are evil in themselves.

how fucking hard is this for you liberal art reject morons to grasp?

>>8343751
>you missed the entire point of the post

Your poor presentation is not my problem. Work on that.

>>8343771
what part of
> show me one person who was evil for evil's sake and didn't do things because they fit their ideology or sense of gratification in any way.
were you dense enough to not grasp?

i literally asked you to give me an example of an individual who did evil for evil's sake and didn't derive some sort of gratification from it and you literally just told me a person who got gratification from it.

>>8343751
Kek calm your fucking titties mane I said this shit >>8343485# because you were quite much parroting what Socrates said. But since you don't seem to catch that reference to one of the most iconic episodes ever you could as well sip some hemlock yourself.

>>8343469
Holy shit, you are a cringey as fuck 19 year old.

>>8343804
wait. socrates said something similar? elaborate? i feel glad to have arrived at a theory by myself that is similar to his.

also, what episode senpai?

>>8343786
You started off by saying something that was completely antithetical to your point, but the initial presentation was that it was your idea.

I'm not disagreeing with your point.

Your writing is just shitty, my son

>>8343438
This anon is right. The very evil is always done unkowingly

>>8343832
First sip your hemlock
Then check some of the first Plato's dialogues, Apology especially. Google is your friend

>>8343847
>he didn't know he shot 49 people to death

Certainly.

>>8343848
Nah, I prefer the spirit of Socrates itself. He lives through me.

>>8343848
i have read apology, meno, phaedo, euthyphro.

he doesn't claim in any of these texts that there is no true evil. in apology he just fucking destroys the morons trying to convict him. he defends philosophical inquiry and his dialectical exercise and how he wasn't hamrful to society.

dafuq are you talking about.

>>8343855
are you dumb? do you not see the context in which "unknowingly" is used here? it doesn't refer to some state of hallucination or deludedness.

Unknowingly here refers to the state in which a person understands that he is shooting 49 people and doing so because of some reason. either he is deriving some gratification from it or because of some ideology or because of some impulse or because of some vent for hatred. he isn't shooting 49 people because it is an evil thing to do. he is doing it because of some explanation that is rooted in anything BUT "because it is evil".

as i said, there is no evil for evil's sake.

>>8343162
>overwhelmingly acknowledged bad things
>things/acts considered undesirable by consensus
/thread

>>8343438
this is pathetically trite.

>>8343907
but correct? right? i don't care if it is trite or not.

>>8343886
>nobody likes to murder

Aw, that's sweet.

>>8343961
jesus fuck i feel like im arguing with children.

I didn't say "no one likes to murder". in fact i said that "no one likes to murder because it is evil". if someone committed murder it was probably because they liked it or because they had a reason to or because they felt that it was the best thing to do or because of some emotion that they felt. show me one murder done purely for "evil's" sake. it always has a motivation or a sense of gratification behind it.

>>8343979
You are, in fact, arguing with children. But do keep posting, not all of us are brain dead memers. Just stop adressing them.

>>8343866
Read it again
Also I think he discussed that shit in Protagoras but I have to reread it

>>8343438
hitler xDDDDDDD just evil for the sake of evil t. school

>>8343979
>being naughty isn't fun

You must've been a good little boy.

>>8343994
A generally negative attitude toward children is fitting with the Catholic Church's priorities.

I guess Jesus' attitudes weren't to be modeled after all.

That's a relief. It's so hard to be a "decent" person anyway.

>>8343431
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
Trump will go to heaven if there is such a thing.

>>8344421
What did he mean by this?

>>8344421
why would the kingdom of heaven belong to the poor in spirit? unless the "poor in spirit" means something that i dont understand?

>>8344425
He'll be leader of the free world.

>>8344433
You don't understand what "spirit" means.

Try analyzing things more closely. Just a suggestion.

>>8344437
Rookies
Lookie
How can six dicks be pussies?

>>8344030
Ever heard the road to hell is paved with good intentions

>>8344446
eh?

>>8344456
Talking about shit creek
Bitch you could be up piss creek
With paddles
This deep
You're still gonna sink

>>8344451
Wherever you go, there you are.

No charge. That one's on the house.

>>8344470
Now you're speaking my language.

>>8344443
yeah bro it was the lack of the analysis of a word that is the problem here. how tf am i supposed to magically understand the context in which the word "spirit" is used here?

>>8344471
This shouldn't have made me laugh
But it did.

>>8344531
With religion, just go with what "feels" good.

The euphoria that they try to condescending pin on atheists.

>>8344433
What about Μαkάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι, ὅτι αὐτῶν ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν do you not understand?

>>8344588
the part that claims that the kingdom of heaven is for those poor in spirit. i mean why the fuck do these cunts have to be so cryptic about this shit. goddamn. it sounds like a teenage girl got high on lsd and tried writing deep thoughts about "goodness and stuff".

dafuq is "spirit" supposed to mean here? morality? wealth? naivety? simplicity?

>>8344629
If you don't "get it" you'll never get it.

>>8344649
i might not get it but you could at the very least offer some fucken explanation apart from "nah bro u don get it". i doubt it is an entirely ineffable concept.

>>8344629
Oh boy. You do understand that the bible was not written in English and that is just (a common) translation? Maybe the German translation will help you
>Selig sind, die da geistlich arm sind; denn ihrer ist das Himmelreich.

>>8344687
> das Himmelreich.

Go back to /pol/.

>>8344669
It actually was. You didn't like it so apparently you threw it on the floor and want another one.

>>8343153
Where is the original picture from?

>>8343438
What if that person acknowledges that they are gratified by evil for the sake of evil?

Meaning the evil actions they do will give them no tangible benefits other than a psychic pleasure.

Does something like good exist?

>spirit

Look. I'll explain it.

Look at the cross: . It has two parts. The horizontal one represents the physical plane. The vertical one represents the "spiritual plane." Therefore the "spirit" cannot be described in physical terms.

Our existence is an examination of the meaning of the intersection of the two.

A common idea is our personal essence of identity is not of the physical realm, and is referred to as "spirit."

A side note: People who are overly-"spiritual" are too disassociated from reality.

>>8343153
If you accept a notion of universal ethics (such as Kant) that proves you can have objective secular ethics based on universality, you'll soon realize this is not applied in the world at all. Just because rape is wrong, it doesn't mean rape won't be practiced. Doing good is stopping the rape and doing evil is defending / executing it.

>>8343153

no. what are you, 4?

Evil is real. Doing something that you know will be completely detrimental to other living creatures is a example of something that is evil.

>>8345262
GNOSTICS GET OUT. THIS IS A GOOD CHRISTIAN BOARD!!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>8344629
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatitudes

>>8345282
I'm a Confirmation Christian, however a very naughty one, I'll admit to that.

>>8345281
When Kathy Bates hobbled him, she said it was for the best.

>>8344757
>original
Prison Pit

File: Ayn-Rand-.png (346KB, 451x451px) Image search: [Google]

346KB, 451x451px

Collectivism is the root of all evil.
Hannah Arendt proved it correct with the banality of evil.

>>8343153
No

>>8343444
complete red herring

>>8343751
>we're deterministic machines who do things
and also a consciousness and the capacity of reason
>liberal art reject morons
oh so you're just a stemfag loser ok

and you're the one arguing relativism, I'll be

>>8345262
got any reccs for this kinda stuff

>>8343438
I'd consider Stalin.
“This creature softened my heart of stone. She died and with her died my last warm feelings for humanity.”

>>8343153
Yeah, just pray you'll never see my dark side kiddo.

>>8343153
>Does something like evil exist?
Not outside us, no.
Does it mean we should eradicate our concept of it from our lives? No.

>>8343438
>no act of malice that is carried out purely for malice's sake.

holy shit you're stupid. see? this honest comment was purely for malice's sake.

>>8343153
yeah, it's called the rabble

>>8343438
Why does intent even matter? There is no way to really ever know what is the "real" someone.

Maybe Hitler or Stalin was doing it all for evils sake, maybe they thought it was a necessary evil, maybe they didn't really consider it a cost but didn't consider it desirable either. Who the fuck knows, I wouldn't trust them themselves to know.

All it matters that their some of their acts were pretty evil (according to most sensible moral codes or theories that don't just deny the existence or possibility of evil deeds).

Besides, your theory is pretty stupid. Why does it stop being evil if it is done for personal gratification? By denying the existence of "evil" you are referring to some definable concept of evil, so let us know that. Anyway, my personal take: the inner life of someone doesn't matter when judging his deeds.

>>8347681
>Why does it stop being evil if it is done for personal gratification?
exactly. the dude who wrote that post is fucking retarded and should kys as soon as possible

>>8347686
Wow my dude. You need to chilly chill.

File: hp.jpg (78KB, 440x539px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 440x539px

>>8343153
You guys ever notice how a lot of characters in mainstream entertainment who are portrayed as "evil" seem to follow Nietzsche's philosophy?

File: saitama.jpg (49KB, 736x669px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 736x669px

>>8347784
Some maybe. But its a bit of a simple reading to simply make Nietzsches ideas of strength and ubermensch equal physical domination. Most of those "ultra-evil" characters are a bit too angry, bitter and petty to fit at all, really; Nietzsches ideal is will and strength, which does not include but actually contradicts with seeking revenge (etc.)

You can also say that strong but eccentric characters just doing their thing are "following Nietzche's philosophy", actually often even more so.

Picture related for the ultimate ubermensch of anime.

File: Selection_002.png (135KB, 340x346px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 340x346px

>all these bluepilled cucks

>>8347681
I used to think like this very strictly but don't you think intention matters at least a little bit? (Even if it's hard to know for sure).

Ex. killing someone innocent -- it would obviously be bad for a soldier to shoot a civilian for personal gratification. But what if when shooting at an enemy combatant they hit a civilian by accident? What if it was dark out and he honestly thought a civilian was an enemy that presented an immediate danger to his own life and his friends?

(pretend the enemies are pure evil and the civilians are purely innocent)

Most of the time I'm okay with just judging the actions, but there's got to be more to it than that.

>>8347784

A lot of good characters in mainstream entertainment do to. Listen to "I am what I am" by Gloria Gaynor. The whole of contemporary morality is just 'muh authenticity' and is therefore basically Nietzschean

>>8343438
malice is not the source of evil in Christian theology

>>8343438
if a man kills another man because it is convenient, he does evil.

that doesn't mean he did evil for evil's sake. nobody does evil for evil's sake. evil is a perversion of the good; and men always do evil in a partial and imperfect view of the good.

Your idea of what evil means comes from movies and television. That's your problem.

File: 1463163750052.jpg (51KB, 245x204px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 245x204px

This thread

However, Aristotle said that "good" is that to wich every living thing tends to. All you faggots seem to think (he, he) is evil only exists on intent, not in action. And that is a sophism, evil done for evil's sake is preferrable, because therein lies the intent.
(For instance: destroying and polluting the planet not out of spite, but greed. That's evil because you did it without reason or logic)

Remember "pecunia non parit pecunian"

>>8343438
This post disproves your own theory.

>>8343438
mostlyagree with this statement.
in germany there is a widely know criminal lawyer and author called von Schirach. He says no one wakes up and says today I'm going to do evil.
To sadly quote Zizek: "The evil is unconscious" This doenst mean that the Unconscious is Evil but it means doing evil always results from no being able to fully grasp the consequences of one's actions. It's hardly in your real interest to do evil.
Just look at Macbeth and his wife. They go fucking nuts because of what they did

>Objective morality exists

oh boy

>>8348179
To be fair, there are (for example insane) people who go against any logic like that. They don't fucking go nuts because of what they do because they lack some capabilities that most of us do have.

Now, most people need justifications, of course. Maybe this is why Ayn Rand is so popular for rich folk; her uh, philosophy, can be used to justify anything bad a rich person might do. Other kinds of things work for justifying other deeds.

>>8348163
Some of us already did stress the importance of action rather than intent.

>>8348181
Of course it does not. That doesn't mean that we can't try to enforce some sort of subjective morality.

>>8346656
I just actually looked up "cross" in the dictionary just to find out the meaning of the symbol.

File: tips Christian morality.jpg (21KB, 474x528px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 474x528px

>>8347784
>>8347992

Confirmed for not reading Neetzsche.

>>8343438
Good thoughts anon, and I think you’re on the right track.

If you define evil as a some “tangible, definable, substantive force which works against good”, then no, there is no “Evil”.

Rather, evil is the absence of good. It only appears to have substance because it pulls in the opposite direction of good.

Using heat as an analogy – room temperature is about 70 degrees Fahrenheit, or 294 Kelvin.
To someone who is at room temperature, an object at 200 K would feel very cold, and an object at 400 K would feel very hot.
Yet there are not 2 standards here, one of “coldness” and one of “hotness”. There is only heat.
It is only because we rest somewhere between the two extremes that it appears to be two kinds of thing.

Similarly, a decent person would look upon Lincoln and Hitler (or just insert your favorite stereotypically good/bad figures) as being two different *kinds* of people.
Rather, they are three points on a single spectrum of “goodness” – Hitler has the least, the decent person has the 2nd most, and Lincoln has the most.

>>8348262
>Hitler/Lincoln morality spectrum
oh buddy, the memesters are gonna roast you now

also, the idea of evil as the absence of goodness is a Augustinian concept, a Christian concept. it presupposes good as an inherent state of all creation because, as we know, it is the work if God, and evil is the misuse of free will in violation of natural law. by contending with His will we loose that goodness and follow Adams lead.

this is why satanists make it a point to systematically shit on natural law. its more than muh hedonism. it's contempt of creation and all that follows from it.

>>8348318
...You could just as well make it a spectrum of evilness and put those people in the opposite sides of it and define good as the absence of evil. There is no real difference there, except in how you make it sound or "feel like" (pessimistic or optimistic) (kinda like that half full half empty thing)

>>8348318
>oh buddy, the memesters are gonna roast you now

Hence why I gave my parenthetical insertion. I can think of worse and better men, but didn't want that to be the focal point of the analogy.

>also, the idea of evil as the absence of goodness is a Augustinian concept, a Christian concept

It is certainly accepted and in cohesion with Christian theology, but Plato is the first mention I know of it, and Augustine brought it into Christendom. It didn't originate with Hippoman.

I agree with the rest of what you said, though.

>>8348391
Isn't there at least one practical consequence - how the one who does nothing would be viewed.

If good is the absence of evil, then they are good, because nothing = absence of evil.

If evil is the absence of good, then they are evil, because nothing = absence of good.

Unless, of course, evil or good (depending on which spectrum we use) is defined in such a way that we can assign a value to "nothing" (or some "neutral" non-act).

File: 1463700949276.jpg (60KB, 537x720px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 537x720px

>>8343153

"Evil" is that in which rational thought declares an action that has an overall harmful outcome for living beings.

Evil is an abstraction created by living beings and thus is a tool for properly classifying and preventing obstruction of the progress, and the "living experience" of beings.

>>8347784
>>8347878
In the Death Note movie, Light is reading Nietzsche and bitches that the justice system is shit so he'll take matters in his own hands.

>>8348403
Well yeah, of course, Augustine was a platonist. But, as you said, he made it Christian dogma and his argument (from On Evil) is more well known, so I went with him.

File: nietzsche2.jpg (11KB, 279x281px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 279x281px

>2016
>still believing in gud and ebil

>>8343153
All people act within their own self-interest and within the limitations of their experience. Sometimes, the limitations of one's experience causes one to do things that are not worthwhile and are ultimately harmful to others, but that seem to be the only way for one to act in their self interest. We call that evil.

>>8343438
The joker. Kys.