Film is superior to literature

>>8330415
For conveying surrealism, yes id agree.

>>8330415
If you're lazy, sure

at being text?

Literature is superior to film

Video games are superior to film.

...at wasting money and being 50 years behind all other art forms.

>>8330764
it's being hold back by old jews because they know they can make loads of money when they just make simple and cheap films with some good looking people in them who people at home can jerk off to. film, like all art, is destroyed by moneygrabbing bussinessmen who will never understand true art.

>>8330961
well yeah if you only watch the most popular hollywood trash

They're different forms of expression. I like these threads pecause all the pseuds reveal themselves by dismissing one over the other.

>>8330983
*because

But seriously, we all know that music is the highest form of art.

The only artforms which are actually patrish are literature and sculptures.
Everything else is below it or either complete pleb lowbrow shite.

>>8330415
Barney is a hack

>>8331011
music > literature

>>8330985
Ha! You've been uncovered pseud!

Cremaster 3 is shit tho

>>8331302
>>8330996
What's so great about music? What do you extract from music?

>>8331428
The same general things that I get from literature (feelings, thoughts, a sense of connection).

>>8330996
>>8331302
Sure is pleb here.
Please get out, /mu/

Cremaster is one of the worst films ever made

No

The best films are amazing but there's not enough great directors out there.

If there were 1000 directors like Anoionio, Tarkovsky, Bergman and Fellini then sure, film would be amazing but there's not enough quality.

money ruin film but not for long

>>8332350
Who of our generation do you think can compare?

I watched Ohayo by Ozu recently. You guys have anything else like that?

>>8331428
Because music (except computer generated) is a direct expression straight from the soul. Anything else takes too much preparation and overthinking. Improvised music is the truest form of art there is.

>>8332350
>Anoionio
lmao those sure are some hot opinions for someone who can't even spell Antonioni

>>8332376
>computer generated
You don't know a lot about electronic music, do you?

>>8332357

Malick, Kieslowski

>>8332361

Ozu always makes me feel all warm inside, particulary his later films, like Floating Weeds (1959). A true artisan of the cinematic art.

>>8332384
Is blow up any good?

>>8330971
unlike novels, films require a lot of money to make.

>>8332361
Mr. Thank You (dir. Shimizu)

>>8332395
>Malick, Kieslowski
>of our generation
fucking kek

>>8332357
Pedro Costa
Tsai Ming-Liang
Apichatpong Weerasethakul
James Benning

>>8332406
>>8332404

>>8332411
Those are all contemporary filmmakers.

>>8332389
I'm ready to admit that my post was a bit of an overgeneralization but I'm curious if you could give me an example of "soulful" electronic music that doesn't depend on samples and is a direct expression of feelings and not the work of a producer who worked for hours or days on that song.

>>8332420
No shit.

>>8332350
You have shit taste, film doesn't begin and end with 60s European art house cinema.There were plenty of good directors in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00's

>>8330415
>ITT: Shitposting

>>8332426
Not really.

i'm convinced music is the highest art of which literature is an essential komponent.

if you can play an instrument and/or even sing on the street, yuge* instantanious congregation who ejaculates monetary curreny

*Donald J. Trump referens

the goat song;
Beethovens Moonlight Sonata

>>8332477
This is pure Avant Garde devilry. Take me Jean Claude.

>>8332401
no they fucking don't.

Look at something like Méditerranée, Eaux d'artifice, or even something like Hans Richters experimental films.

not everything has to be a lavishly designed greenaway film

>>8332421
Electronic music has so much more potential than the generic club shit most people associate the genre with.

Radiohead's electronic period (Kid A, Amnesiac) is always a good place to start and served as the entry point for a fair amount of current electronic music fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmsXwK39Jk&ab_channel=AllDeMusic


LCD Soundsystem is largely electronic and dance-y but can still pull off some incredibly hard hitting songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOHLeXxfNu0&ab_channel=jeremyp371


Björk is a classic pop artist that uses electronic instrumentation in an intense emotional environment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SDWFvsN2lw&ab_channel=CabbagePatchBaby


Now here's some crazy shit in case the more conventional stuff bored you:

Autechre - Pen Expers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfQNUfpWdTY&ab_channel=Autechre-Topic

Tim Hecker - Hatred of Music I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ta5Zg9XEy8&ab_channel=ZerothRecursion

Aphex Twin - Vordhosbn (my favorite electronic piece ever and should be considered my answer to your proposition)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iEl7OKrLGI&ab_channel=SuqMadiq

I think the main thing to remember when listening to electronic music is that actual people (with emotions and passion!) are behind the sounds. The time and energy that producers put into their music is part of the expressive element, sort of like sculpture.

carbon based lifeforms
massive attack

>>8332763
>Autechre
>Aphex Twin

You realize Parmegiani did exactly what they did 20 years ahead of time but more artistically and intellectual right?

>>8332763
> Talk about potential of electronic music
> Mentions LCD soundsystem
Fuck off

>>8332718
Kenneth Anger had wealthy patrons and supporters his whole career

>>8332887
I was just trying to get something accessible that wasn't leet dj mixes

>>8333021
You have a very pleb taste in electronic music and you obviously don't know much about the genre

>>8332376
what a fucking pleb
improvised music is usually shit, i bet you like jazz, kys
and theres nothing wrong with computer generated music, they are just frequencies, is how you place them together what makes the difference, you are the kind of shit that gives music a bad name
>>8332231
name your favorite albums/bands and composers
>>8332763
>radiohead
fucking kil yourself famalam
at least LCD soundsystem can be fun sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2izWpGDCo

>>8332763
druqks is the worst aphex twin album

>>8330764
/thread

>>8330764
is a really new art give it a break
whats your favorite David Lynch movie?

Film is the lazy man's literature.

Laziness is the idiot's detachment.

Film is the idiot-who-thinks-himself-critical-minded's literature. <=> Film is the pseudo's literature.

You propose that "Film is superior to literature."

In order for it to be true, laziness would have to be superior to its literary analogue critical detachment, and pseudo-intellectuality would have to be superior to intellectuality.

From this point on it might just be a question of values.

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>>8333124
Mulholland drive

>>8330415
It really is.

>>8333157
>not lost highway
sure is pleb in here

Slam death metal is the highest and most abstruse form of art.

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>>8333157
>>8333164
The obvious answer is Blue Velvet, any other answer is shit and wrong and try hard

>>8333111
good joke, LCD are never fun and never good

>>8333180
God damn Isabella Rossellini was stupid hot in that movie

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>>8333111

>>8330415
it is desu. reading is still fun though.

>>8333142
>Film is the lazy man's literature.
Can you explain this? The laziness in particular.

>>8333180
>not Fire Walk With Me
for shame
>>8333191
Baby wants to fuuuuck

Had anybody here actually watched all of cremaster? Does it ever start making sense? Which one is the best?

>>8332399
It's boring, watch Coppola's The conversation instead

>>8332399
its 10/10

>>8332763
Come back after you've lurked /bleep/ and hit puberty m8

>>8330415
How the fuck does an artist get that sort of budget for an art film? The cycle must have cost a fuck ton of money

>>8333180
actually correct

>>8333180
liked the movie but, what did Lynch REALLY mean by it?

>>8333255
now it's dark

>>8333243
the joos

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This memegogery

>>8332376
>except computer generated
or literally anything that was composed, by your line of thought

it's not so much about self-expression as it is about creating an impression anyways, unless you listen to rap and emo only

improvisation is just self-indulgence a lot of the time

>>8331428
Music and literature have a pretty similar effect on me. Listen to Close to the Edge if you haven't. It's probably the best example I can think of as far as music achieving what literature is capable of. The title track especially has a way of stimulating even the most complex mind, and most people who listen to the track report it evoking a sense of euphoria. It achieves incredible heights with seemingly no effort, and it covers a lot of ground while feeling completely fluid and effortless.

wtf i hate film now

what does /lit/ think about the conceptual art project known as "Death Grips"

Guys who are the best filmmakers working today
I contend
Mike Leigh, David Lynch, The Dardennes, The Coen Brothers, Wong Kar-wai, Kelly Reichardt, Derek Cianfrance, Ben Wheatley, Lynne Ramsay, Lenny Abrahamson, Martin Scorsese, Todd Haynes, Thomas Vinterberg, Steve McQueen and Wes Anderson

>>8332857
>Intellectual
what is this garbage

if you aint feeling it you aint feeling it

>>8330415
Rate my film m8s

https://vimeo.com/163198605

The art of film just like /lit/ even in the hands of the best directors today has degraded so largely that it's of no consequence of what is better.

>>8333422
please be in london

>>8333491
w-why

what does /lit/ think of the conceptual artist known as "Grimes"

>>8333333

>>8332900
This, filmmaking isn't ever cheap even when a particular one seems cheap compared to a blockbuster

>>8333422
I guess I'll focus just on feature films
Tsai Ming-Liang (Only Director I know that's still regularly putting out masterpieces)

One or two masterpieces and several misses:
Veiko Õunpuu (The Temptation of St. Tony)
Lech Majewski (The Mill and the Cross)
Yannis Economides (Knifer)
Mohammad Rasoulof (The White Meadows)

what does /lit/ think of the conceptual artist known as "Geologist"

>>8333564
Do you like Hou Hsiao-Hsien?

>>8333583
Not any of his contemporary films I've seen.

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/lit/ is such a fucking joke about non-specialist topics

read adorno? read danto? neither have i. but my very smart friends in graduate school have. their findings were interesting. after modernism, and then after conceptual art, the technology of art is no longer important, because it's inescapable. any artwork could be recreated today, exactly the same, and would be worthy of consideration. then there's some kind of tie-in to modernism and capitalism and the reifying forces of such but we don't really need to think about those. what's important is that these questions of form are now questions of technology and as such are no longer relevant.

it's funny that OP used cremaster as his example, as anyone who is familiar with the form of that exhibit will know (to spell it out: barney didn't imagine cremaster as a film, whatsoever)

Film as a medium is objectively better than literature. Just because it's younger and hasn't produced as much quality work doesn't mean it's worse in and of itself.

Film does everything literature does with the benefit of image and sound. It can portray many details at once while literature is limited to one word at a time. And it doesn't have the same restrictions of timing and pace, try writing down the highway chase scene from Matrix Reloaded (just the first thing that popped in my head) in literary language while maintaining the dramatic tension if you don't believe me.

>>8333197
My guess would be that a film is more reliant on imagery which is easier (by showing) than literature's task of description

>>8333621
>tfw you have just enough awareness of /lit/, art history, film, and music to know when someone doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about on non-specialist subjects
>tfw know artist friends who think lady gaga is culturally subversive
>tfw know film friends who think les mis is the pinnacle of literature
>tfw know music nerds who think christopher nolan is the greatest auteur of our times
>tfw don't know anyone who actually reads though
>can't help feeling smug even though i'm just a jack of all trades fag

>>8333658
is this supposed to be me who is "feel"ing? what the fuck is going on in this post

>>8333662
>/lit/ is such a fucking joke about non-specialist topics
just reminded me of people i know, chill out mate

>>8333621
anyone familiar with Cremaster who isn't a pseud will know that it's a piece of trash

Where do video games place on the hierarchy of media? If they aren't art, why not? And, do they have the potential to be art?

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This album is better than most books.

>>8332819
interesting taste

>>8333805
>babbys first ambient and babbys first trip-hop
>interesting

>>8332350
Literally the only great director on that list is Tarkovsky and the only passable other one is Fellini

>>8333702
I think video games have potential, but for now they're definitely shit tier

>>8330961
yeah the medici a banking family didn't know anything about art

>>8333846
tarkovsky is pleb

>>8333639
film can't be text. it's not the same

>>8330415
Video games (or vidcons, as intellectual connoisseurs such as myself like to call them) are truly the ultimate form of art. They surpass film, literature and music in every way imaginable.

No other form of art can evoke the same deep emotional pull as Aeris' death in Final Fantasy 7, or the gut-wrenching funeral scene from Call of Duty: Advanced War Fighter.

>>8334026

Let me tell you something: at my last con experience, I'll have you know that the VR tech demo left me dumbfounded. And by that I mean, once the cumbersome headset was placed on my head, the "VR operator" clubbed me. I woke up without my wallet (or my dignity). How dare you think that small own cons are a good idea.

Sincerely, the Demouth VR Sleuth of '82

>>8334026
they are truly superior because they unite all the different art forms such as coding and sound effects

>>8333846
Antonioni and Bergman are great you contrarian faggot.

>>>8334026
>Video games [...] are truly the ultimate form of art. They surpass film [...]

Nah. Just the fact that 90% of the times in videogames you're limited to a single view (be it first person, third person or otherwise) while films have total liberty in depicting images makes them inferior.

>B-b-but muh interaction!

That has nothing to do with art and actually diminishes its purpose that is aesthetic appreciation.

>>8333395
Never understood people's infatuation with that song. I like the church organ part at the end I guess

>>8331428
Music is perfect for conveying atmospheres. Film also.

>>8330415
At what? No medium excels at everything. If there was one medium that could perfectly convey everything a creator could possibly want better then every other medium, there would be reason for different content mediums; everyone wold drop everything and just seek proficiency at the one medium that excelled at everything.

they are very different and i like them both but i prefer one over the other can you guess which one based on the board im posting on i bet not after all youre reading this dumb troll post like me oops

>>8335441
well i would guess literature but that may not be strictly true as i only post on /lit/ yet am a bigger film fan than i am of literature
/tv/ is too much of a shithole to bother with

>>8334126
Antonioni yes, Bergman no.

>>8335914
K. Why is Bergman not great

>>8335916
He has far less cinematic value than the others.

As far as filmed theater goes his stuff is masterful, especially cries and whispers.

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>>8335967
>bergman isn't a great filmmaker because his work has far less cinematic value than [others].
You might have to do a bit more here.

>>8335914
your opinion changed easily, Ingmar Bergman is goat btw

Any chance one of you has a mega of the Cremester cycle?

>+100 replies

lit... please.

>>8335967
>cinematic value
Could you pick a more empty platitude as your criticism? What a meaningless statement. Bergman is fantastic.

>>8335254
the fuck are you talking about faggot? none of what you said has anything to do with art

What an enormous pile of steaming shit. Trying to define an artform as superior to another is like arguing solipsism. All art depends on human interaction with it, be it visually, aurally, tactilely, gustatorily or however you can think; therefore it's as subjective as it gets.

How is it possible to have any kind of discussion if everytime anon disagrees one is called pleb? Artistic snobism only prevents you from approaching art in an unbiased form.

Do you have any argument as to why you /lit/ patrician enjoy your Tarkovskys, Bergmans and Buñuels more than the filthy plebeian enjoys their Spielbergs, Bays and Tarantinos?

Be honest to yourself /lit/ patrician, how much art are you fighting with nail and teeth to not enjoy, because your fellow /lit/ patricians don't allow you to?

Be honest to yourself /lit/ patrician, how much art are you forcing yourself to enjoy, because your fellow /lit/ patricians require you to enjoy in order to be worthy (of what?)?

/lit/ patrician, break your chains. /lit/ patrician, do whatever the fuck you want. /lit/ patrician, by all means, discuss your favorite art and also the art you think is most accomplished; but, for your own enjoyment of life, /lit/ patrician, don't prevent yourself from enjoying shit.

/lit/ patrician, shit is, and always will be, the artform truest to human nature.
A man who enjoys shit and trifola d'Alba Madonna, gets more out of life than the one that only enjoys the truffle.

Film is literature in motion

>>8336834
Is this post good?

>>8336876
>>8336834

No it sounds like he's trying to justify his poor tastes.

>>8336876
Good: «beneficial to...».
Good to whom or what?

>>8332477
>tfw i can sing and write songs

>>8336892
Justify to whom? Why is it despicable to have poor tastes (according to /lit/)?

>>8336904
they need the status

>>8332426
In the 70s, 90s and 00s, sure, but there weren't plenty of good directors in the 80s. Culturally, the 80s might have been the worst decade in the history of mankind.

>>8336834

>Artistic snobism
>/lit/ patrician,
>?)?
>/lit/ patrician
> shit is, and always will be

>>8336923
Thank you for pointing out my grammatical mistakes, I concede my English is shit. Although, I stand by the last comma and the question marks, since those were two different questions.

Care to discuss some of the content?

>>8336909

Everyone has different reasons but feel free to generalize.

>>8336941
>feel free to generalize.

no

>>8336947

no.

>>8336895
Lol I dunno nerd. Like is it legit or wat?

>>8336963
If you're referring to the thread, I think it's perfectly valid to discuss the advantages of different artforms; but to argue in terms of superiority leads nowhere.

If you're referring to the comment, then yeah, it's not copypasta nor bait. You're welcomed to discuss.

>>8336876

>tfw you are untermensch

>>8335967

Man, that juxtaposed image of that boy with the mother's face behind him at the end of Persona is purely cinematic. You're a fuckwit troll.

>>8337083
>purely cinematic

>>8332401
>unlike novels, films require a lot of money to make.
yes, but how many amazing books never get published because they're not considered marketable ? how many amazing works of literature never get read at all ?
>>8336918
>80's shitty
all those greenaway films, the mike leigh stuff for tv, rohmer, kieslowski, and roeg, pialat, the last couple from cassavetes, the werner herzog stuff - i think the 80's was a tough decade culturally but not a total loss. maybe just more shit to wade through til you get to the good stuff

>>8337095
pure kino it ish pure kino

>>8337100
Consider how many screenplays end in the garbage. At least you can share your writings without any budget, even if you only manage to reach a few people.

But yeah, both filmmaking and literature suffer from this cancer. It's truly necessary to weep for all the master pieces lost in the name of money.

>>8337095

As in, cannot be replicated by other media without recourse to film itself as a medium. Just to spell it out for you. . .

>>8337115
i agree; most of the film i mentioned was either independent or financially supported / promoted nationally - such arts funding isn't so common now.
i also shed a tear...

>>8330415
Film can include something more subtley than literature can. This is not exactly true as literature can be very subtle with nuanced subtext but we don't have writers who are good enough to do it at the level that rivals film yet. Nothing beats a meta-object in the back of the frame that doesn't draw attention to itself or distract from the plot.

>>8333124
every /lit/fag only ever talks about Lynch

>>8330427
look at me i read instead of watching movies, why? because im not a lazy bum like the rest of the world, jesus, its amazing how superioir reading makes me, oh look, my dick is 89 inches long

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Sound novels are superior to films and literature.

>>8336904
Elitism encourages improvement

>>8333403
very bloom

>>8330764
This.

I am a struggling filmmaker and i am still blown away by even entry level classics like Moby Dick. I don't think that can be surpassed by any film....almost ever. The level of detail and the 'Direction' of the reader's mind in a novel is impossible to achieve in Cinema unless you're Bela Tarr and want to see people grow beards while finishing your films.

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>Anime is superior to every art form since it combines sound, image, drawings and paintings. More means better lelel.

>>8339248
>more doesn't mean better
what, according to yourself?

>>8330415
die faggot die

>>8331422
kek

Different art forms have different purposes and are therefore not superior to one another in any way

You might as well compare architecture and fashion

>>8339248
Who are you quoting?

>>8333333

>>8330415
>tfw like all art forms immensely
>tfw have no childhood proclivities or inclinations toward any art form
>tfw no convenient, philosophically sound answer to which medium is the "best"
>tfw can't decide which one to get gud at

>>8339487
maybe try blogging

>>8337322
he's the only one that matters

>>8333564
reddit-poseur/10

All of these filmmakers and their ''''''films''''' are a pain and pretentious nonsense except What time is it there or by Tsai Ming Liang. Calling them masterpieces is like calling "The Zarya Module operator's manual Vol.1" a masterpiece.

Hou Hsia Hsien is truly a master.

>>8333602
Try Kore Eda Hirokazu's films.

>>8330415
What did Mathew Barney mean by this?

>>8339494
upvoted

>>8333846
This.

"There will always be an 8½ to serve as a refuge for those who are frightened by the prospects revealed by a Marienbad."

Fellini is pleb tier.

>>8341057
>make an incoherent film
>it was just a dream duuude!! xD
even the tree of life wasn't this bad

>>8333197
Hot vs cold media, even if you don't agree with the theory it explains this view of literature compared to film

>>8335254
>Nah. Just the fact that 90% of the times in videogames you're limited to a single view (be it first person, third person or otherwise) while films have total liberty in depicting images makes them inferior.

There's no inherent reason for this to be the case. Games could experiment with camera projection in the same way, there's just no need to most of the time so they don't. In fact, interaction can free you from the restrictions of camera direction entirely and potentially allow you to view a scene from whatever perspective you wish however number of times you need to in order to fully take in a scenario. Thus it can supplant the multi-perspective kinos that only offer a finite number of perspectives.

Devil's advocate here.

Can anyone name a movie that was then turned into a well received book?

>>8341992
How is that at all a metric of anything?