Alpha

>>8319365
Macbeth

>>8319365
No because such people in reality don't exist or if they do a strong period of characterisation where failure and reevaluation would've been rampant had occurred. maybe fucking marvel comics

G-doy, American Psycho.

Dorian Gray, maybe? Lord Henry's unapologetically alpha throughout.

Grey Eminence - Huxley

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>>8319366
Not really m8, Macbeth basically undid himself, he could never handle leadership. I think Coriolanus could be closer, but it's much in the same vein character-wise. Either way, I read both, and I don't think their protagonists fit this definition I gave.
>>8319367
You are wrong. Such people very much did exist.

Faust

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>>8319365
Any early Michael Crichton novel like The Andromeda Strain or Terminal Man.

Also, Stanislaw Lem novels usually feature some brilliant scientist.

The Dwarf by Per Lagervist

>>8319365
The Odyssey.

Not the Iliad, though.

>>8319394
>Not the Iliad, though.

What?

The Good Soldier Švejk

>>8319365
My novel

>>8319400
What's it about?
>>8319397
Yeah, really funny.

>>8319365
King Rat

>>8319365
My diary desu

>>8319372
Examples of people who existed?

You say in your post "confident (at least outwardly)". I'm sure those seemingly impeccable historical figures who strove above and beyond weren't always possessed of the passionate personality they were. They developed it, and any novels worth reading of them will contain those 'inward' nuances.

>>8319365
Atlas shrugged

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>>8319365
Actually being alpha, holding yourself to a high standard, having things your way and openly questioning others authority means challenging the culture of the modern West itself.
The very first thing that will follow from that is the ego of everyone around you being wounded just by the fact that with your behavior you implied their disposition towards society isn't good enough. You basically asserted dominance without even confronting anyone, just with your demeanor. Most people can't imagine that. Most writers are people.

The Fountainhead

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>>8319447
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

He probably had flaws, we'll never know. He died at 86 after fighting in every war he could, killing without remorse and reveling in battle.

>>8319365
Beowulf? You might also want to check out the Ghengis novels by Khan Iggulden. They're genre fiction (historical), and he is an underdog in the first novel when he's uniting the Mongol tribes, but part of why I didn't think the series was very good after that first one was because the Mongol army either destroyed or out thought every enemy in its path.

>>8319471
>Does anyone know a book (non-pulp)

In any worthwhile book that fits that criteria which is Novella sized or longer where Mr. Speirs is the key protagonist, we would get deep insight into his flaws and shortcomings as well as how he overcame or is overcoming them

>>8319471
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs
>Speirs had worked hard to earn a reputation as a killer and had often killed for shock value.[6] Winters stated that Speirs was alleged on one occasion to have killed six German prisoners of war
So basically your average psychopath? The biography of Jihadi John should read similar.

Sherlock Holmes, dawg.

>>8319487
>Alleged
The consensus holds it that he made that story up, as well as the one in which he shot his own subordinate for refusing to follow an order. He used these stories to bolster morale of his subordinates.

Unlike looting, any summary executions by Allied personnel were thoroughly investigated. Heads flew when during the liberation of Dachau, some SS personnel was executed.

>>8319487
If that story was true, I wouldn't blame him. There were no resources to spare in order to guard those POWs, and when upon release those Germans could relay important intel to their command, which could compromise the operation and cost a lot of Allied lives and other resources. Any good soldier would've done the same.
Or do you actually believe in that fairy-tale about most infantrymen never firing their rifle?

>>8319487
so? not seeing any flaws here.

>>8319482
Also the author is *Conn Iggulden. Why I misspelled his name is obvious.

Also part of why I'm recommending this series is because he has an incredibly interesting personal crisis later in the book. He conquers Baghdad, and after laying waste to cities for years, starts to worry about his empire and the longevity of his own legacy. He resolves it by eventually realizing that nothing lasts, and that it's silly to worry about something he can't even enjoy. So instead he accepts the absurdity of empire building and keeps doing it anyways 1. Because he realizes it's absurd 2. And because he genuinely enjoys waging war and conquering.

The Afghan Assassins make an attempt on his life earlier in the book and he retaliates against them after making this realization. There is this fantastic scene where he's speaking with the lead assassin inside this fortress that was supposedly impregnable, and his men are going room to room slaughtering everyone, burning their sacred texts, and already dismantling this stronghold from the inside out. This lead assassin is losing his mind, screaming at Ghengis, telling Ghemgis that he's a barbarian, that he will be killed, and that everyone close to him will be killed, that his empire will crumble, that he'll be wiped from the history books, and that he won't be able to build anything worth remembering. And Ghengis, the whole time starts laughing harder and harder as this guy is getting angrier and angrier. He cuts him down and has the Mongol army finish destroying the fortress, then orders them to scatter every brick and stone of it on the mountain as they walk back down to continue the campaign.

>>8319505
>Or do you actually believe in that fairy-tale about most infantrymen never firing their rifle?
Firing, sure but most actively try to miss, hence the army spent a lot time and resources on dehumanizing the enemy. A sane person can't kill another human without suffering long term consequences, needing therapy and all the jazz.

>>8319512
It's just pretty boring to read from the perspective of a psychopath once the shock factor is gone.

>>8319518
You walked right into this one mate. I'm not going to dissuade you or anything, but this is one of the most common myths to be perpetuated today, along with the myth of nuclear winter and atomic war bringing the end of civilization.

First, that bogus WWII survey which started it all, the survey by Marshall, on which he based his book Men Against Fire, has been debunked. Notably, Marshall tried to run the same "survey" during the Vietnam war, and it was quickly found out that nearly 100% of infantrymen surveyed always shot to kill and anonymously vouched the same for their comrades.

Also, only 10 to 20 percent of returning combat veterans experience any sort of psychological disorder, including PTSD. This statistic is universal across the board, the scientific rumor has it that the causation is most likely genetic. Rates of suicide or unemployment are same or lower amongst the veterans, and so on. In the end of the day this means that yes, failure to be ruthless when necessary IS in fact a weakness and a malfunction, and the whining of a century worth of pacifists can safely be disregarded.

My journal desu

>>8319540
>Also, only 10 to 20 percent of returning combat veterans experience any sort of psychological disorder, including PTSD

>Among American troops in Vietnam a greater portion of women experienced high levels of war-zone stress compared to theater men—39.9 percent versus 23.5 percent.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder

>How to hide that you're full of shit by using long sentences

>>8319540
>Rates of suicide or unemployment are same or lower amongst the veterans, and so on.
http://www.publichealth.va.gov/epidemiology/studies/suicide-risk-death-risk-recent-veterans.asp

>>8319572
You are wrong and your source is shit.

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/epidemiological-facts-ptsd.asp

>>8319576
http://www.publichealth.va.gov/epidemiology/studies/suicide-risk-death-risk-recent-veterans.asp

Did you even read this? It says right there that the risk of suicide for the non-deployed was higher than that for the deployed. People actually shooting the enemy and stepping on landmines were less likely than POGs (who only fought latrines and uniform inspections) to commit suicide.

You are full of shit.

>>8319584
>http://www.publichealth.va.gov/epidemiology/studies/suicide-risk-death-risk-recent-veterans.asp

it also says tht deployed are 41% more likely then general pop to commit suicide.

Was a link to /lit/ posted on imgur again?

>>8319598
Nice goalpost move. What this does is it ruins your pretty picture of
> A sane person can't kill another human without suffering long term consequences, needing therapy and all the jazz

Clearly, riflemen actually doing the killing (and thus carrying your imaginary "guilt") were overall more stable and less likely to commit suicide. What this statistic shows is that most enlisted are fuckups and tossers to begin with, which makes total sense since no one would sign up for this shit for this pay, unless the fucking skills they had was fire, maneuver and hasty entrenchment.

>>8319605
Seems more like a /k/unt got loose.

>>8319655
Sorry your bubble got burst, though I'm sure you'll blow yourself a new one in no time. I am content with the world as it is.

Read Musashi

Dunno where folks got this idea that some grunt following orders is alpha

>>8319372
>such very people exist
Just fuck off Nietzsche, go watch a bridge too far and then come back.

>>8319671
If you read the thread you'd find out the argument started over Lt. Ronald Speirs, who was a commissioned officer, and the majority of his antics, like assaulting a hostile howitzer position alone or running through the town of Foy, held by an enemy garrison to reach an allied company, he did of his own merit, when he could've sat on his ass and watch his soldiers be slaughtered.
>>8319676
Blow it out your ass. Watch Elite Squad and eat shit, pussy.

>>8319693
That example is more like doing what needed to be done otherwise you're fucked.

Completely different than striving for mastery on your own volition.

>>8319703
No. In both cases, had the assaults Speirs partaken in failed (and they should have, especially the one in Normandy), the allied forces would've just retreated, and there would be no reprimand most likely, as this wasn't the Eastern Front. No one forced Speirs to act as he did, in fact no one expected anything of thus sort from him.

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>>8319715
Nice.

>>8319715
He was doing it for glory/pay raises, many better men than him died to snipers/artillary fire, he probably sacrificed the safety of his squad with several his actions, et cetera. Now go watch a bridge too far.

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>>8319719
Lt. Speirs was basically Captain America, and there were a few characters like him in the war, like John Basilone over in the Pacific, or Audie Leon Murphy, who among other things fought an entire German company on his own, standing on top of a burning tank destroyer with a .50 cal heavy machine gun which he hand-carried (can't make this shit up), or Mad Jack Churchill, who brought a sword into battle. Larger than life, all of them. And yet they all existed.

>>8319725
Eat shit and die, coward.

>>8319436
This is the kino of /lit/ meemees, I always look forward to seeing it in these kinds of threads

>>8319581
>.gov
Yeah, and my Heroin dealer tells me that only 1/100 people get hooked

>>8319771
>muh war is hell
Just go ahead and order that exit bag, you despicable fucking hippy. You know you want to.

>>8319778
war is a moral good, how could something that results in the deaths of millions be anything but?

the world is overflowing with ugly bugmen with no souls, a culling can't come soon enough

>>8319793
Would you kindly die?

>>8319802
trolled ;)

>>8319803
Truly, I have been rused. Kys my man.

>>8319809
hahaha, no need to be so mad...

>>8319614
you are the one who moved goalpost , ypur original claim was that service men experience ptsd at the same rate as civillians. also the distinction btwn deployed and non seema irrlevent in the drone era.

can't believe e no one suggested flash man series

>>8319365
So a Mary Sue? /lit/ has finally gone full circle

>>8319505
>If that story was true, I wouldn't blame him.
Oh, you, a 12 y/o frequest shitposter on a malaysian ice sculpting forum wouldn't blame a man for commiting war crimes 60 years ago. I can finally find peace in my heart now that I know someone of your calibre sympathises with the man.

>>8319540
>you walked right into this one mate, i spend over 16 hours a day selectively reading studies which reaffirm my worldview. And I fucking love an audience.

My god you are pathetic

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>>8319365

Nostromo, Joseph Conrad

>>8319365
All the Pretty Horses.

Unless you wish to be a cowboy, then it might be wish-fulfillment.

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>>8319951
No, you imbecile. The flawed beta """human""" and "''realistic""" protagonist meme has gone too far, it is time to stop being a cuck.

"I shall reveal a secret for you: I've seen the new Man - fearless and fearsome. I recoiled at his vision"

Bob Lee Swagger series by Stephen Hunter

Aubrey/maturin Series by Patrick O´brian

Conan.

>>8319978
Blow it out your ass.

>>8319365
Hardboiled detective fiction is what you are looking for

>>8320127
Yeah, sure man, might as well through Ian Flemming's novels in there. I said no pulp.

>>8319487
what right man would have it any other way?

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Books need to appeal to some specific public, and they do that by making the public identify and relate themselves with the story and characters of the book. How the fuck are people supposed to relate with a character as rare and distant as an alpha?

>>8320030
stop projecting faggot, you're a fucking loser and you'll always be a loser no matter how 'alpha' the people you write about are.
You'll notive I only used a single set of quote marks, because I'm not a fucking petulant moron.

>>8319978
You're an uninformed cretin if you believe the "missing on purpose" meme. It's been proven false by the very man who started it, decades before you were born.
>>8320159
If it were easy to find this type of thing, and not in fanfiction or pulp, I'd have never asked.
The only thing harder to find is plausible "strong" female characters, and now with all the fucking SJWs spouting their shit, fucking chicken leg Wonderwoman or some shit, things have only gotten more difficult.
>>8320163
Oh, looks like I ruffled some feathers here, please do go on.

Someone already said Musashi so just read that

My Twisted World - Elliot Rodger

Is exactly what you're looking for.

>>8320206

I'm on 4chan because of the anonymity and lack of moderation. For me, there's no alternative, even though I am removed quite far from the troubles and concerns of its stereotypical user. Don't believe me - I know I wouldn't, on 4chan. But you're not contributing to the discussion and wasting your time.

>>8320227
Look man, you got your recs; why are you bumping this meme thread?

Also, why are you writing the way a dungeons and dragons player thinks intellectuals write.

>>8320241
I write the same way I think. Maybe it sounds odd because English isn't my first language. I don't write in it. I bump because I want more recommendations. There are threads three times more worthless being bumped here right now.

>>8320255
Instead of bumping for more recs, why don't you read the ones you already have, such as:
My Twisted World - Elliot Rodger

>>8320262
Elliot Rodger is that autistic school shooter, right? Why would I want to read something by him?

>>8320268
He's exactly what op was asking for. Read it, you won't regret it.

>>8320278
I've seen the video made by him, he looked like a typical containment board poster. I don't want wannabees. I want the real thing, like the dreaded and mythical Chad from /fit/, except with brains instead of/with muscles.

>>8320287
And only someone who actually was confident and independent in real life could write such a character believably. I'm surprised nobody suggested Jack London, although I already read just about everything by him.

>>8319394
The opposite is true

Odysseus is an underdog if anything

Achilles is not

>>8319365
James Bond.

>>8320174
youre a child, try reading something for children, Artemis fowl would be right up Ur street

>>8319453

good man

>>8319970

he explained why though you shitstain

>>8319365
WW3 Darpa Alpha

>>8319540
>myths

Read On Killing by Grossman, he uses extensive bibliography.

You are wrong.

>>8320227
This was a cringey post. Anon discovers how to take things with a grain of salt as an adult and announces it. Congratulations. I'm going to assume you're also one of those normies that spew "i dont give a shit" whenever they can.

>>8320159
People want to know what it's like to be the best at something - why do you think they read sports autobiographies?

>>8320388
I wouldn't say that, clearly Achilles was the best, but none of the Greek kings got to their position without a reason. The Iliad spends pages of praising all the other Greek heroes as well describing how big, brave, smart and strong etc. they were.

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>>8322161
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing

>The book is based on SLA Marshall's studies from World War II

SLA Marshal, like I wrote before, completely discredited himself. He tried to run his flawed WWII "survey" in Vietnam only to find out that 99% of soldiers deliberately shot to kill and anonymously vouched for their comrades doing the same. It is agreed that his WWII "research" was unrepresentative or outright falsified.
SLA Marshall is a hack, and "Men against Fire" belongs in the same garbage heap as what you're advising to read.

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>>8319365
op, reading this thread you seem like the type of guy who fell for the red-pill, manliness meme. Not trying to insult you or start some huge argument but you seem like you have this perfect picture of an alpha and although the anons of fit, k, and Pol make it seem so badass, you should reevaluate it. I'm getting lots of cringey vibes from you. My 2 cents

>>8322631
I didn't fall for anything. I'm not a misogynist, I think there's nothing wrong with Jews, and I think that Hitler was a hysterical retard.
Personally, I think I might actually fit the definition of alpha or Chad. Like I said, I'm only on 4chan because there's no alternative.

There are people like me here, like Legionfag from /k/ (unless he's KIA), who is literally French Foreign Legion 2 FIR paratrooper and a veteran, and posted many proofs and stories.

>>8319365
Roadside picninc.
The protagonist is literally that, read it right now, your search is over.

>>8322684
I've read it a long time ago, it's my favorite Strugatsky novel. Red is certainly alpha, but he's also very much an underdog, not in any position of privilege.

>>8319365
Sorry, all those criteria you listed are mutually inextricable from being a wish-fulfillment fantasy.

You don't actually understand what human beings are yet do you?

>>8322694
He is a moral overlord. He ain't taking shit from no one. A fucking ubermensch.

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>>8319365
Storm of Steel by Ernst Jünger. Jünger was a son of a noble family, an entomologist, a family man and a writer. But, most importantly, he was an officer of the Sturmtruppe.

In WWI, Sturmtruppen were German assault troops who's only job in the war was to raid trenches and murder everyone inside in bloody close-quarters combat with SMG fire, pistol shot, grenades, flamethrowers and improvised melee weapons.

Jünger loved the thrill of battle, like his comrades, never suffered from PTSD, and lived a long, happy and productive life, dying in 1998 at the age of 102.