What are some good books for learning about Islam?

Welcome to Islam by Kumon Anslamand

>>8307622
the quran

>>8307622
>No god but God (Reza Aslan)
>The Study Quran
>A History of the Arab Peoples (Albert Hourani)
>Any decent textbook on Islam

1:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_AnOiSdszc

>>8307622
The Crayon

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Everything you need to know.

>>8307755
>one source
>everything

never. literally, not even once.

>>8307639
Reza Aslan? I thought he was just one of those postmodernist religious apologists who don't believe it's possible to characterize a religion in any way whatsoever.

>>8307622
This club I'm in has some great pamphlets I could mail you

>>8307622
Read the Quran.
The Sunna should be disregarded as it is nothing more than a collection of "reported claims" invented by peasants who were paid by the Caliphate.

>>8307622
أرواح هندسية by Salim Barakat.

Sharia Law for Non-muslims

>>8307639
>(Reza Aslan)

terrible

'How i fucked your mother' by rapemeister #learningaboutabrahamism

The Vision of Islam by William Chittick and Sachiko Murata

>>8307923
1. Conspiracy theory.
2. OP isn't a Muslim and neither are most of us. It's not relevant whether the "Sunna" was made up after Muhammad or not, since Muslims believe in it and any descriptive account of their religion has to take it into consideration.

>>8307923
Said no one ever until recently by Muslims who are ashamed of the content of the mental prison they can't escape.

Ma alim fi al Tariq ('Milestones') by Sayid Qutb

Abdul is all Done with Goats: Islam and the Migration to Europe

>>8307622
Islam is better understood as a juridic system and not as a religion. Read some Sharia textbooks.

>>8308673
>Conspiracy theory
>A simple reminder of historical facts
Pick one.
>>8308679
>until recently
Oh you actually think Quranism is a new trend and not the oldest islamic movement? Maybe you should read about it instead of talking out of your ass.

>>8308735
I like you.

>>8307755
This, great book. Made me appreciate Islam.

Just open up a newspaper, there's literally a new terror attack every day now.

>>8307639
What is the stuff you learn that the average westerner doesn't understand about Islam?

I don't want to and won't read any of these because I think any and all evidence that Islam should be burned from the planet, and by me spending my time reading any of those I'd feel like I was giving it some form of legitimacy which it doesn't deserve..

>>8310586
Learn how to communicate in English before posting on this board.

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How's this one?

>>8307622

my diary desu desu ne

>>8310586
>>8310617
*that islam existed

happy?

>>8307923
>>8308673
there is a system to judge whether a hadeeth is authentic, acceptable, or plain made up. you check the sanad which is the line of narrators. some of them are known to have fragile memories and so scholars catrgorize the hadeeths they narrate.

i will seriously pray for all of (you) because i love you :)

>>8311138
categorize the hadeeths they narrate as weak***

>>8310586
>why do I need to know more than the average western person
Because the average western person is an ignorant retard who gets their pop history from social media.
>the more I know the more legitimate it will feel
The exact opposite is true.

>>8311138
You do realize that it is circular, right? A system catagorizing these "reported claims" don't make these claims any more valid or historically accurate.

The hadiths turned the Prophet into a barbarian idol.

>>8307761
>I come to 4chan for serious discussion and academic rigor.

>>8311805
>I come to 4chan to find threads were try to have serious discussions and tell them they r wrong

>>8308629
Sharia means Law. You just said Law law.

>>8311671
>The exact opposite is true.
This. Islam as a political system, and it is a political system and more, is anathema to western civilisation. The more you read about it and the more you apply what you read, the more apparent this becomes.

>>8311720
Well he was a barbarian warlord, wasn't he? Possibly the greatest warrior to ever live, considering that the war he started is still effectively waged in his name, but a barbarian warrior nonetheless.

>>8312319
>supporting western degeneracy
>wanting judaic rule to continue for eternity
Islam is the ultimate redpill

>>8312674
>projecting this hard

>>8308744
Is this a good list?

Also, any books about Wahhabism

>>8312701
This is some truly acrobatic apologetics or straight taqiyya. Nasr is pretty good for a cultural and philosophical primer, though, and I have only praise for Islamic Art and Architecture.

>>8312717
Alright thanks. I'll check out Nasr, do you have any recs?

>>8312739
Depends. Do you want literature, philosophy, religious studies, politics? Tell me what you're interested in and I'll make some recs.

>>8312744
philosophy, religious studies, politics please.

Appreciate it.

>>8312751
Obviously you want a Quran, a biography of Muhammad, and a good selection of hadith.

Rodwell's translation is good, if you don't mind complex and somewhat archaic language. Generally I'd stick to earlier translations, with Arberry's being the 'scholarly standard'.

For the life of Muhammad, Maurice Gaudefroy-Demombynes' "Mahomet" is solid, and Muhammad Hamidullah wrote four books on the subject, all of which are well researched and grounded.

For the hadith, the entirety of Bukhari's collection, which is the most 'reputable' one in islamic tradition, is available in numerous renditions online for free. Have a list and compare three or four translations when you're reading. This will be the most gruelling part of it all.

>politics
For a historical context I recommend Hourani's "A History of the Arab Peoples", Cleveland's "A History of the Modern Middle East" as well as that goddamn brick, The Cambridge History of Islam..

For modern stuff, Sharia Law for Non-Muslims by Bill Warner is a good, quick introduction focused on the parts of sharia that concerns the kafir. There's a political agenda to it, but it's clear, concise, and bullshit-free.

Servier's "Islam and the Psychology of the Muslim" is a solid overview as well, though you'll do well to get the original, rather than the edited reprint.
More to come, I need a moment to dig shit up from the library and find out what all those books are called in English. Not to mention remembering which ones are good.

>>8312838
Thanks man, appreciate it.

>>8312838
Right-o.
Since we mentioned shariah, you probably want a Reliance of the Traveller. Keller's works.
Grab Allen's An Introduction to Arabic Literature as well, it has a good bibliography.
The two books concerning the dhimmi by Bat, Islam and Dhimmitude and From Jihad to Dhimmitude are also a solid read if you're interested in how Islam interacts with non-muslims.
Speaking of jihad, there's an interesting writeup by Pipes, Slave Soldiers and Islam, and Malik's The Quranic Concept of War will give you a nice, concise summary of the... well, concept.

That should give you a leg-up on the politics and the interactions without diving into the modern morass of bullshit.
So let's read something more pleasant. Sufism. Grab yourself The Essential Rumi as translated by Barks, the Garden of Truth by Nasr, Al-Ghazali on the Remembrance of Death and the Afterlife as translated by Murad, and the Meccan Revelations (iirc there's one Enlish version, in which Chodkiewicz was involved.).

More?

>>8307622
All you need to know about Islam is how to purge these pedos and murderers off the earth.

>>8312928
>remove the only people standing up for morals and decency in the twenty-first century
wow, you must have a lot of love for gay sex and drug addiction

>>8312923
That should be enough for now, thanks friend.

>>8312944
I kind of oppose being denied my humanity on the basis of a difference in belief.

>>8312953
Not a problem. In general try to keep to the older stuff, anything pre-1980s is usually written either with a harmless academic agenda or an easily discernible political one in mind, making it easy to sift out the bullshit.

>>8307639
Reza Aslan is fucking garbage

>>8307622
Read the qur'an and the hadiths (the strong ones mostly) and cross-reference them between the most popular scolars, and the most popular scolars near the time of Mohammed, to get a real understanding of what they believed at that time, seeing as some things have changed.

That should suffice to turn you off from Islam as any sort of source of truth.

>>8312717

Fucking read the books you idiot. It has fundamentalist literature written by the actual founders of modern Jihad, al-Qaeda etc.

Straight from the horse's mouth

>>8312701

Natana DeLong Baas, "Wahhabi Islam" is listed in the pic.

Wahhabism is not anywhere near as front and center to contemporary issues as people seem to think. It's something of a back-water Salafist movement specific to Saudi Arabia, and has played a minimal role in the development of jihadism.

>>8313210
>Her book Wahhabi Islam: From Revival and Reform to Global Jihad received a positive review in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.[8] It was also criticized by some academics including Khaled Abou El Fadl, Professor of law at UCLA who stated that:

>"I'm sad this piece of scholarly trash was published by Oxford. This doesn't qualify as scholarship - it falls within the general phenomenon of Saudi apologetics."[9]

>and Professor Michael Sells of the University of Chicago who stated that

>"DeLong-Bas never challenges the propriety of Abd al-Wahhab’s claim to absolute authority — the authority to declare the believer and the unbeliever (authority God reserves to himself in the Koran) and to impose the most severe sanctions on those he disagrees with."[9]

>Author Steven Schwartz, questioned her connections with Saudi Arabia,[4] calling her an "apologist" for Wahabbism and Zubair Qamar[10] stated that she received her funding from pro-Wahhabi organisations. Further, the Novelist Michael J. Ybarra complained that DeLong-Bas "doesn't say ... where on earth" the tolerant form of Wahhabism described by DeLong-Bas ever existed"

>Wanting me to read a Saudi apologist

>>8313210
It has a few of those, like the Al-Quaeda Reader, but the 'politics and sharia' section is absolute drivel, and Rahman can go bugger the major themes of a goat.

Don't read the Quran like all of the amateurs in this thread are saying. Muslims don't read the Quran. It is a document that isn't organized well, because it's not meant to be read. It's meant to be experienced because Islamic mystics believe that God transcends word. You have to have grown up in a society where Islamic symbolism is everywhere to comprehend anything, and you have to have gone to a mosque with an incredibly educated Imam. You should much less read a translation. Versions of the Quran in Arabic are translations themselves in a sense, as Old Arabic did not have dots and lines, only bare skeleton text. The dots and lines are absolutely essential, as they change the meaning of an immense amount of words.

If you're still itching to read it I'd look up only a few of the famous Suras and call it quits. Be sure to read annotated versions for the love of Allah.

>>8313246

You would probably find Sachedina surprisingly conservative. In any case his work as a scholar is excellent, certainly not something one could label "drivel" and by no means a cheap exercise in apologetics.

There is a lot of really bad apologetics on Islam out there (which probably does more to undermine Islam than anything), but the Sachedina books are not among them.

He does probably the best academic work on the relationship between the liberal government tradition of the west and Shariah, and comes from a place of impressive learning.

I don't know anything about Rahman.

>>8313244

There's reading a book review and then there's reading a book.

At the very least her bibliography is a gold mine of additional reading, assuming you're serious about learning which you probably aren't.

>>8313290
Depends what you mean by "serious" I very much want to read about Islam and plan on reading all of>>8312838
>>8312923 but I don't intend to be a scholar or anything.

I will look at what else she has written.

>>8313320

Why Islam?

>>8308103
kek

>>8307764
Nah, he used to be a Christian and then he became a Muslim.

>>8308673
I would disregard the Sunna in general. It was never intended by Muhammed to even be in existence, the Quran was supposed to be all you need by Muhammed's own words.
The Sunna ended up being used as justification for a whole bunch of extra practices with precedent in Muhammed's actions even though he was not really supposed to be a model citizen either

>>8313435
Curiosity. It's an important subject these days and I know very little about it. That region of the world interests me historically as well (egypt to india lets say)

Going to be reading more about Hinduism as well.

the actual religion or the people that follow it?

>>8313447
Muhammad regularly engaged in shuts and consultation with the Islamic community giving them advice and things they should do. I don't know why you would disregard the primary source to understand how the original muslims, including Muhammad, were actually practicing their religion. The Quran itself is even extremely referential to events elaborated on in Hadith, you can't even fully analyze the Quran without consulting Hadith.

>>8313778
>shuts
*shura

>>8313454

Okay cool, good on ya. Klaus Klaustermeir has a one volume introduction to Hinduism (Survey of Hinduism) which is fantastic; good for the general reader but with footnotes too.

Final exit.

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>>8307622
Why does she have green eyes

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>>8314226

>>8314226
have you heard of persians?

>>8312838

You seem to have a good grasp on the Islamic tradition but Rodwell is NOT a good translator. His work is outdated and riddled with serious errors. Yusuf Ali or Marmaduke Pickthall are far better choices.

>>8313273

I hope you're trolling.

You do realize that many Muslims learn the entire Qur'an off by heart, and that there are annual competitions for this purpose in most Muslim communities? You do realize that Muslims are required to recite different passages of the Qur'an while praying?

>>8313778
It's the other way around. The Hadiths are referential to events elaborated in the Quran and most of these references contradict its teaching. Ever heard of the Sunni hadith claiming that an animal ate a verse of the Quran? Or the one that claims that the Prophet slept with a child, which is now used to discredit Islam? Or the ones that advocate for stoning and various types of torture? Or the one saying that drawing and painting is the worst sin when it is stated in the Quran that the worst sin is association?

>>8314226
Ever heard of Persians, Syrians or North Africans?
I'm Algerian and several members of my family have green or blue eyes. I've been gifted with shitty brown eyes, though.

Should I read the Islam Quintet by Tariq Ali?

>>8307622
suicide for dummies

>>8315569
Sure, some of them are strict orthodox. Just like any religion.

>>8307622
Kill yourself by Muhammed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKTMev7duY&index=2&list=FLXXpDMpVsSFCWaTjgrwi51A

>>8308735
>Oh you actually think Quranism is a new trend and not the oldest islamic movement?
How many people is that?
And it's not the oldest islamic movement, when the Prophet was alive, everyone was following his example, there are numerous verses saying that obeying the Prophet is the same as obeying Allah, Abou Bakr spoke many times about how he is reluctant to do things that the Prophet never did, and Sunnis as well as Shias agree that the Prophet was an example, they just don't agree on the content of the books supposedly compiling his deeds.

Quranism is certainly not older than the Prophet, his companions, Abou Bakr, Aicha, Omar, Abdullah ibn Omar, Al-Abbas, Hassan Al-Basri, and the Four Madhhab.

The Quran, muhammed loves slavery and killing infidels.

Is there any *good* historical fic in an islamic setting?

>>8316069
By who's account?

You get what I'm trying to say?

The Prophet's words cannot be above or at the same level as God's words. A lot of the "reported claims" contradict clearly the Quran. Also, there's a difference : his companions actually observed his manners and knew him. Muslims are left with a collection of "claims" reported more than a century after his death. Absolutely ridiculous.

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>>8312944
>Islam
>Morals
>Decency

Bit an Arab once.

Tasted like Pork.

>>8316240
No go tell that to a large group of, say, well motivated british sunnis and post the result.

>>8316240
>Absolutely ridiculous.
It is, and yet the collection of reported claims about the life and times of a barbarian warlord forms one of the bases of a religion that claims to be moral and peaceful. Mostly to the outside, of course, but still.
Islam may well be salvageable, and it has produced fantastic works and authors. Mostly within sufism and quranism. As it stands, however, the most popular doctrines and interpretations of it are fucking evil and there's no nice way to say this.

>>8316526
Is that an argument?
Why should I tell that to a large group of people who've been brain-washed since their childhood? A group of people who worship the Prophet and are okay with the "fact" that he may have been a pedophile?
Anyway, see >>8316577

>>8316397

did that really seem like a clever joke in your head?

Aquinas and Cusa

>>8307622
The Birds, The Frogs, & The Mosquitoes.

The main character (Farid Licheli) is a Muslim.

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>>8310765

>>8316240
>The Prophet's words cannot be above or at the same level as God's words.
Above, no.
At the same level, yes. If there are no contradictions, and if the Prophet legislates on a field on which God voiced nothing, it is equally as binding as a law from Allah. I am saying something that every child past 4 knows in the whole Islamic world.

>A lot of the "reported claims" contradict clearly the Quran.

Then they are false and discarted. It's not "either it's all true or none of it is true" you fucking moron, there are hadiths 100% authentic, there are hadiths 100% false, there are hadiths on which debate is open, there are some very fishy things (Aicha and Omar claiming that there were verses on breastfeedings and stoning of the adulterer that were eaten by a ghost), but it doesn't mean that all of the sahihs are false. There are nuances, there are variants, it is not an exact science, it is an entire field of study.

Fuck, every child in the Islamic knows this. Even in "Sahih" al-Bukhari there are some false hadiths.

>Muslims are left with a collection of "claims" reported more than a century after his death. Absolutely ridiculous.

This is most of history and most of documents study. You have to work with what you have ; without the sunna, you cannot practice your religion, you don't know how to do the ablutions, you don't know how to pray (how many prayers, how many rak3ats, etc.), you don't know how to punish certain crimes, you don't know how to organize courts of law, etc.

>>8316664
>A group of people who worship the Prophet and are okay with the "fact" that he may have been a pedophile?
1. Nothing says that the hadith is true.
2. The prophet is not a pedophile, he spent 25 years of his life with a woman 25 years his senior.
3. Even when he became rich and influential, he could've had all the young girls he wanted, and yet he married only one.
4. The marriage was clearly for political reasons, as it is not simply some random young girl he forced his power on, she was the daughter of his best friend and the third person every to embrace Islam.

You don't need to throw away the whole of Sahih al-Bukhari to argue this. Just use logic, God didn't give you a sense of logic for nothing.


And how exactly is the prophet a "barbarian" warlord, and how is Islam "evil", I still don't understand, even according to the hadith. Islam is a religion of peace, but not only of peace, it is ALSO a religion of war and ultimately a religion of Pax Islamica, and what's the problem with that exactly.

>>8317286
And before any of you comments on the typos, it's the freaking autocorrect of my phone, get over it.
*discarded
*eaten by a goat
*third person ever

>>8307639
Albert Hourani is great.

I'd recommend as well any books on the arab world in the 19th century.

An Arab rediscovery of Europe is a good start. The French Revolution played a big part in the current modern arab climate

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>>8307639
>Reza Aslan
>Reza "Atheism Is a Religion" Aslan
>Reza "Islam Isn't Violent" Aslan

>>8307622
https://www.amazon.com/Islam-Present-Future-Hans-K%C3%BCng/dp/1851683771/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1469426980&sr=8-8&keywords=hans+kung

You can't ask for a better book.
>inb4 traditional catholics give me shit for linking Hans Küng

>>8317286
The problem with that, exactly, is that Pax Islamica is spread by the sword, by the pen, and by money to the people who don't need or want it and to societies based on better, because holistic, moral principles.

That is disregarding history, the more chill-inducing parts of the doctrine, and what the modern take on sharia does to the countries it is implemented in.

But you know that. Every child knows that jihad is to be waged until all mounths proclaim the oneness of Allah.

>>8319232
Yes I know that and yes every child knows that.

And?

some book about french hisroty

>>8319306
And I don't think if you got the memo, but imposing one's rule on another by violence and subversion isn't a very moral thing to do.
Still, this is a very good illustration of a typical viewpoint of 'we can kill and enslave you because we're right'. If this does not turn anon away from Islam, nothing will.

>>8316688
It's not a joke senpai.

I seriously bit an arab, and categorically all human beings taste like pork.

Ask a Papuan Highlander.

>>8319342
>And I don't think if you got the memo, but imposing one's rule on another by violence and subversion isn't a very moral thing to do.
Says who?
Every place on Earth has rules and is ruled, by brute force and violence. If you have another system, we're 7 billion waiting to hear.

>Still, this is a very good illustration of a typical viewpoint of 'we can kill and enslave you because we're right'. If this does not turn anon away from Islam, nothing will.
Name one system that doesn't work like that.