fleshing out a character

>>8267421
You don't. Your main character doesn't have to be empathetic.

>>8267421
>people want

Why do you care what people want? Tailor a character that fits your story man. Give him traits you see in people you admire or abhor. Give him secrets, give him shame.

All human personalities are tropes, my man.

double down and make him a rapist.

>>8267624
does that make him more or less likable?

>>8267421
Describe him to us.

>>8267421

A character's likability depends on the reader. Different people like different things. So, first thing, get a good handle on who you expect to be reading this thing.

People like other people who value the same things. If your reader thinks racial pride/religious piety/marital fidelity/national identiy/whatever the fuck is important, they'll like a character who thinks the same. This only holds for major, life-directing values, though. They don't need to have the same philosophy about professional sports, or hobbies, or other low level shit.

In that vein, you don't have to strive to make the character just like the reader. The reader will probably see through all attempts to do so.

Also, people like people who are attractive. And if you're marketing to ugly people and want identification, make the character just slightly below average looking. An ugly protagonist is commercial suicide.

Speaking of identification, the right way to build it is by having the character wanting the same things and facing the same obstacles as the reader. The wrong way to build it is to try and have them watch the same TV shows and listen to the same music. Don't be superficial.

>>8267744
This is a corny thing I wrote in response to a prompt sent to me about the main character:

Alex's personality combines a nurtured entitlement and an imperious nature with a deep confidence – in the power of analysis and his own capacity to domesticate it. He would be at home on a conquistador’s ship bound for the new world, or in a Roman general’s tent on the eve of war; but his feeling of rectitude is derived from faith in utter rationality, not in god or emperor. For every person who has a like-minded approach to the world, or who paints its mask on during their morning commute, there are ten others who live with and tolerate them. It is a mindset that has conquered the known world, and installed many of its own values as rulers. To better understand Alex's flaws and vulnerabilities is to better understand some of the problems with the world around us.

>>8267790
That makes him sound like a redditor. Though if you yourself call it corny then it's probably not the most strictly accurate description.

>>8267790

Yawn. The world doesn't submit so easily to "utter rationality"; we're far too clique-y for that.

The conquistador did not get his ship because he argued rationally for its merits.

He got it by sucking the King's dick.

>>8267798
Seconded.

>>8267805
>>8267798

yeah i'm not saying conquistadors operated on rationality. it's saying alex:rationality as conquistador:faith. it's not perfect. it's also not saying that rationality conquered the world; it's saying a head down, single-minded assured-ness did. also not perfect. but either way, the description doesn't give a great idea of who the character is. maybe the problem is i don't really know how to convey it other than his actions, or maybe i just don't really know.

>>8267815
So you're saying he has a borderline religious faith in the idea of rationality and is firm in his convictions.

>>8267790
Sounds like a roundabout description of the conventional "perfect soldier" archetype. Devoid of irrational fear, uninterested in possibilities outside of the immediate (re: religion, etc), intelligent enough to persistently survive and intelligent enough to *know* he's intelligent and skilled (hence 'entitlement', imperiousness), and steady-handed enough to be a well-above-average combatant. Am I in the ballpark?

>>8267827
yeah, more or less. i'd qualify it by saying he has a borderline religious faith in his own capacity for making rational decisions.

hmm - this doesn't really seem like a character-defining trait.

>>8267836
close. more hubris.

kill the parents

add a black best friend

>>8267880
aha dude... his parents are dead. his employee he travels with is black - guess he's not really a friend tho.

>>8267852
Enough to get him killed/seriously injured, or not?
If the latter, it's still perfect soldier.

>>8267912
not literally killed. but metaphorically, almost. it gets him into some pretty deep shit that he does not get out of.

>>8267815
I see.

Reminds me of a Rand-ian hero. Good luck with the writing.

>>8267963
have actually never read any rand, but from what i've heard rand liked these types of people. the guy in this one gets fucked big time.

>>8267974
Definitely not randian then. She pretty much wrote Capitalist masturbation fantasies for herself where the big, handsome, accomplished, self-assured, industrialist man could do no wrong.

>>8267974

Rationality as a means to cut through the people-bullshit and get shit done = Randian hero, basically

Of course that requires a world in which rationality->triumph in a broad sense

Which is the point of >>8267978

Sounds to me like this Alex thinks he's pretty smart. I think you oughta balance him by putting him in embarrassing situations he's powerless to change. Like maybe he knows how to avoid it or get out of it but he can't. That's what empathy is, right?

>>8268090
thanks anon

>>8267421
Maybe focus on the little things. Like the small relationships he has with random people in his life. Mother, teacher, bus driver, nephew.