So is it satire, or was that just a meme?

People who call it satire just do that to fit it to their modern sensibilities

>>8200590

Elaborate?

I've never seen a compelling piece of evidence to suggest it was in any way intended to be satyrical.

>>8200577

Given the context, it would actually be less believable to imagine that it was anything other than sincere.

>>8200603
Nobody agrees with autocracy anymore. Its like the most offensive political idea to hold

>>8200603
>oh tell me you didnt
>ugh can we just not?

that. swjs think every political stance different to theirs is some parody or bad joke, that people literally cant think like that in a serious fashion.

The idea that it was satire came from Rousseau. He said that because he felt sympathy for Machiavelli (who was tortured for his republican ties), and thought, "Surely, no such good man could conceive of human nature differently than I do."

>>8200626

>offensive
>wrong

>>8200624
Didn't Machiavelli get his arms broken by Lorenzo de Medici and the book was a attempt to get back into favor with the Medici family?

>>8200648

Italian families were retarded.

That's what happens with delusions of Roman grandeur.

>It was necessary that Cyrus should find the Persians discontented with the government of the Medes, and the Medes soft and effeminate through their long peace.

Makes sense, especially in regards to robots and Nu males.

>>8200637
I didn't agree either way. I don't think the idea should be memed on but I also have to recognize some degree of correlation between democracy and high standard of living.

>>8200671

Correlation does not equal causation.

There are so many contributing factors that giving democracy the credit is just absurd.

>>8200671
>correlation between democracy and high standard of living
See : South America, Africa
>inb4 They aren't real democracies because muh Western hegemony told me they were bad guys

>>8200690
Yes but a minority of democracies are oppressive whilst a vast majority of autocracies are oppressive

>>8200577
If it is satire surely the question must be: did contemporaries on the Italian readers find it satirical, and does this fit in to what we know of Italian culture of the time? The answer is that if this is satire, Florentine, Italian and also later foreign readers would not have found anything amusing or mocking in the Prince, but rather reacted more or less by loathing its realpolitik and praise of pagans, or by applauding its pragmatism in maintaining power at a time when foreign armies were tearing backwards and forwards over the peninsula. If it is satire, then Machiavelli really did not understand his audience, and was a dreadful writer of the genre.

>>8200634
this
>>8200634

>>8200577
I've never understood why this would be deemed as satire. Can anyone elaborate on how this ancient meme came to be?

>>8200724

Probably because some people don't like the idea or rather, the fact, that being a sociopath is the key to power.

I'd not be surprised if Hilldog kept a copy on her bedside cabinet.

>>8200705
Oppressiveness is subjective and not really relevant to what people typically lump in with standard of living
You'd hardly say a country where most people were wealthy and educated had a low standard of living because of harsh laws

File: Triggered.jpg (76KB, 655x400px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 655x400px

>>8200655
>delusions of Roman grandeur.
>delusions

>>8200690
>These totalitarian governments are actually good! Pay no attention to the food riots or crushing poverty! It's a western conspiracy against anti-imperialism!

This is what leftists actually believe.

>>8200755

Don't make me dig out pics of his fat, caved-in head.

>>8200744
Its pretty simple. 95% percent of this site's userbase is living in a democratic country. The fact you can play semantic games on a Laotian Juggling board is a sign democracy is a good thing for you and me and everyone else here.

>>8200768
>caved-in head.
You got me interested

File: CIAdidPinochet.jpg (88KB, 620x902px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 620x902px

>>8200758
>totalitarian
>democracy
Yeah, if they'd just privatize everything and sell it all to the west, then they wouldn't have these resource shortages. They'll only be a truly free people once they instal- I mean, "elect" our puppet dictator

>>8200780
I'm not arguing against democracy, I'm arguing against the notion that democracy inherently improves standards of living

File: foot riots.jpg (63KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 1280x720px

>>8200785
>this is what leftists actually believe

File: cf1dc57072c4dfd78eabb53ad0df99f4[1].jpg (64KB, 564x429px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 564x429px

>this is that reactionaries actually believe

It was his grain of sand in his attempt of unifying Italy. The Prince in order to get the city states together had to be a crafty motherfucker, had to be extremely pragmatic.

Think of Bismarck who later unified Germany, was his realpolitik not the perfect example of pragmatism in politics?

I think he's been the best example of the Prince humanity has ever seen.

>>8200843
>that it is