/sffg/ - SciFi and Fantasy General

First for Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

>>8028907
I should read the final one where they die

Ok, some guy from the last thread told me to summon 'Marc', so uh, here I go.

Is there any good chapter to chapter summaries of Book of the New Sun that only contain information pertaining that chapter, and don't spoil the rest of the book? Something to read after reading the book chapter primarily.

>>8028907
Fourth for the memes of youth.

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>>8028931
...
I mean this

So what is wrong with Brent Weeks?

Why isn't he liked on /lit/

>>8028940
Boring action flick in book form, and several levels worse at it than even Sanderson, Rohtfuss and Abercrombie.

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Gonna make this a meme. Thanks disgruntled anon for making it.

>>8028937
Ah, here we go.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/8081?sort_order=downloads

>>8028941
Who do you consider good action flicks in book form?

Shit like The Raid: Redemption or some of the better kung fu movies, but as fantasy?

>>8028944
I don't understand why it has all the meme books but Wolfe. Wolfe definitely needs to be on this.

>>8028949
Not that guy, but i'm not entirely sure you can translate the fight coreographies to book form without losing impact or something.

>>8028952
Maybe the creator actually likes Wolfe, or maybe hasn't read him. Either way, I don't think the person who made it was trolling.

>>8028944
Please no. The squashed covers hurt me so.

>>8028949
I don't think there is any good ones focused on it. Action is better in other media.

>>8028957
>>8028964
Isn't sword & sorcery stuff like Conan, Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, etc., pretty action-oriented?

>>8028944
This the perfect bait chart
>>8028968
Much less than what you'd expect. Adventue and intrigue much more than strait out violence.

>>8028972
>Adventue and intrigue much more than strait out violence.
True, but the action is generally pretty exciting, too. It feels very cinematic.

>>8028977
It's good because it's impressionist, it doesn't go for exact descriptions and there is always something you invest in so that makes it come alive.

>start Shadow of the Torturer
>Severian mentions something about an amschaspand
>the fuck is that
>google
>nothing
>turns out is a way of saying Amesha Spenta, a holy immortal

I'm guessing i'll have to google like this a lot more times, right?

Just finished Swords and Deviltry.

;_; Poor Ivrian and Vlana.

>>8029058
Yes
>>8029131
I think the first volume is one of the best, 4th being the winner where they have to defeat a rat army

Just finished the caves of steel and I can't quite decide if Asimov's point was that the greater good outweighs individual good or the opposite.

On the one hand, the commissioner pretty much gets a slap on the wrist for murder. The spacers don't care since it brought earth closer to wanting to immigrate even though he has a wife and kids. The robots, despite being very close to sentient, are treated as slaves and this is in a positive ligh though the three laws never sat well with me anyway And the medievalists are portrayed as backwards thinking regressivists for wanting to put personal freedom over societal good. And then there's the whole borderline mind control thing that Lije doesn't seem to mind.

On the other hand, Lije is portrayed incredibly sympathetically even as he grand stands, takes huge risks, and bends the rules under the guise of justice, which is really just an excuse for rising in the ranks. At the end, he sees the robot as more of a friend than a machine. The only reason he has to bend the rules to bring the commissioner to justice is that he considers that the greater good still has limits, so the whole ending really made it seem like Asimov was saying that you have to fight for individuality even though the greater good or society at large minimizes you and what you do.

It seems like if it was supposed to be society>individual, the commissioner would have been given a job with the spacers or be forced to immigrate as 'punishment' instead of giving him an actual punishment.

Whomever recommended Retribution Falls, fuck you.

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Whoever recommended this, fuck you. This book should come with a fedora accessory and a how-to guide on being a cuckold.

>>8029542
Really? I was thinking of reading that sometime

>>8029542
....couldn't you tell by the cover?

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>>8029551
Do you like your culture? Do you think that your history isn't completely horrible? Do you not want to read 600 pages of an India analog country killing and ruling over Western Civilization? Do you not completely hate religion?

If the answer is no to any above, skip it. The book literally has a gay Indian guy saying that he's sucked a hundred pricks and wants to shit in the mouth of a god.

>>8029542
How many stairs did the story actually have? Relevant to the plot?

>>8029564
They mention the stairs the city has about three times in the entire book.

anything similar to bakker? i need some philosophy,rape and incest

>>8029563
Sounds hilarious. Thanks for the recommendation.

>>8029598
Read Camus with Game of Thrones on in the background.

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>>8029563
>The book literally has a gay Indian guy saying that he's sucked a hundred pricks and wants to shit in the mouth of a god.

>>8029634
To be fair, he had run out of designated shitting streets.

How should I publish my sword and sorcery? The stories range from damn near flash fiction to novellas, and follow a group of friends as they travel the world, bump into each other, adventure together a while, split off, and so on. Basically it's a bunch of overlapping stories about individuals who can't or won't fit into regular medieval society stealing relics and killing wizards and shit.

I was thinking of publishing it online as pay what you want, with print-on-demand books that collect the stories, and maybe some kind of patreon or something.

>>8029640
Why not shit on the stairs?

>>8029659
Have you considered a collection of short stories and novellas?

>>8029659
I'd publish it on a web fiction website, If you build up enough popularity you can then switch to publishing it on your own self-hosted blog.

>>8029561
Don't judge a book by its cover, anon.

>>8029618
well memed,but i care about sff books

>>8029659
Start off on a blog or find a website that accepts self-made literature. If you garner sufficient interest then you can start expanding into money.

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>similarity between Arelon and an Elantrian, and a Knights Radiant and his/her spren
dat Selish Initiation

>>8029757
It's a method which can in 95% of cases tell you if it's complete garbage.

>>8029780
Go on then, what does a good book ""look like"" as opposed to a bad one?

>>8029797
Bad books usually have photographs of actual people on it.

>>8029797
There is no good book look, except if we include editions which published classics. Hence it's a detector of bad, not good books.
What do they look like? The urban fantasy guide basically.

Would you read a book about kindhearted, dumbass punks with superpowers trying to expand their territory against other superpower gangs?

Which is better, arbitrary powers or powers that come from some aspect of the person (ex. guy who really likes baseball gets baseball powers, guy who has control issues gets magic hands)?

>>8029824
>(ex. guy who really likes baseball gets baseball powers, guy who has control issues gets magic hands)?
Please don't write anything if this is the extent of your creativity.

>>8029824
>Would you read a book about kindhearted, dumbass punks with superpowers trying to expand their territory against other superpower gangs?
No. Other people might. It's not a promising premise, but hypocritically you could pull it out.
>Which is better, arbitrary powers or powers that come from some aspect of the person (ex. guy who really likes baseball gets baseball powers, guy who has control issues gets magic hands)?
JoJo

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>>8029835
>that part of nearly every JoJo where the Stands begin having powers over concepts
Every time.

>>8029842
Why do you post pointless maps?

>>8029827
it was clearly a spur of the moment example

>>8029846
>clearly

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>>8029845
Pointless to the current discussion? Sure. However, maps are fun.

>>8029862
What's fun about them exactly and if they are what's the point of posting them?

>>8029872
>>8029845
>in /sffg/
>doesn't like maps
Holy fuck dude, go to a DFW or philosophy thread

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>>8029862
Superior city coming through.

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>>8029872
Maps are always interesting.

>>8029887
But can it beat superior order and symmetry?

>>8029924
I was just posting Lankhmar because I fucking love Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

I don't actually know this setting.

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>>8029932
That's fine. Maps are worthy to be saved despite familiarity with them.

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I like the Lyonesse map

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>>8029542
You mean me?

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Post your last year captures guys.

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>>8029935

>>8030013
Wolfe, Dick and Clarke sure look lonely amongst all that genre trash shit.

>Sanderson
>Patterson
>Riordan
>Hearne
How old are you? You have to be 18 to post on this site.

>>8030032
Isn't that Bat Metal? Mermaider?

>>8030041
>mom do I fit in yet

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>>8030032
That's not really a map though.

>>8029400
Anyone?

>>8030013
Well. I should start to assign dates to the books I've read.

I did that function and my account stated that I read two books in 2015.

Am I the only one that can't get into audiobooks at all? I just can't focus or keep track of what's happening

Anyone here read City of Stairs?

Just finished it, trying to think of a rating. Im sorta torn, the plot/story was actually pretty good or at least interesting but the heavy SJW influence on the writing made me roll my eyes and groan multiple times

>>8030125
That's because you're trying to multitask, try actually sitting down like you would a book and listen.

>>8030129
sjws ruin everything they touch.

>>8030129
It was pretty bad in stairs, but thankfully the sjw overtones are tuned down a lot in the next book.

>>8030129
Was it the beliefs themselves, or did the author come across as preaching about it? The former is just you not agreeing with the author; the latter is a flaw in the writing.

>>8030181

It's funny, a bunch of bearded men with access to an important resource with cities ending with 'stan' made me think of the Middle East. Didn't see it as a saw book at all. I thought India vs magic Muslims was a cool idea.

The new Guy Gavriel Kay novel is out: "Children of Earth and Sky"

The bestselling author of the groundbreaking novels Under Heaven and River of Stars, Guy Gavriel Kay is back with a new novel, Children of Earth and Sky, set in a world inspired by the conflicts and dramas of Renaissance Europe. Against this tumultuous backdrop the lives of men and women unfold on the borderlands—where empires and faiths collide.

From the small coastal town of Senjan, notorious for its pirates, a young woman sets out to find vengeance for her lost family. That same spring, from the wealthy city-state of Seressa, famous for its canals and lagoon, come two very different people: a young artist traveling to the dangerous east to paint the grand khalif at his request—and possibly to do more—and a fiercely intelligent, angry woman, posing as a doctor’s wife, but sent by Seressa as a spy.

The trading ship that carries them is commanded by the accomplished younger son of a merchant family, ambivalent about the life he’s been born to live. And farther east a boy trains to become a soldier in the elite infantry of the khalif—to win glory in the war everyone knows is coming.

As these lives entwine, their fates—and those of many others—will hang in the balance, when the khalif sends out his massive army to take the great fortress that is the gateway to the western world…

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25332566-children-of-earth-and-sky

>>8030219
Definitely preachy, or at least it felt that way to me. Everyone in a position of power was a female, the men are largely incompetent, lazy, weak-willed, etc. The only men with prominent roles throughout are a servant/bodyguard (who is allowed to be competent since it directly helps MC be brilliant and awesome), the gay best friend, and the villain who's a deluded religious fanatic nutjob. One of the scenes literally had the gay dude telling a god (who's supposed to be a extreme representation of the patriarchy or something, idk) how much he loves sucking dick and going on one of those moral monologues that every tumblr SJW seems to dream about. There's more but I guess it'd be quite spoilerish

>>8030181
Eh, I don't think I'll read any of the rest. I just can't really stand this sort of stuff at all. Probably makes me sound like one of those gamergate retards we had to see around here on 4chan but I'm not, I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. They complain that the books are sexist so their fix is to...make the exact same shit, just the other way around?

There's a scene where a huge, muscled man strips naked and a female of power watches with delight saying how much she loves her job and making lewd comments about wanting to help rub him down. If it was a female character being ogled by men they'd scream about how it's sexist but because its the other way around it's okay? I dont get it

I was reading reviews of Swords and Deviltry since I just finished it. There are people claiming there were no sympathetic female characters and therefore Leiber is clearly sexist. First, how are Vlana and Ivrian not sympathetic? Maybe you're sexist because you don't feel for a character whose whole life has been surviving by the skin of her teeth, or another who was abused by her father.

And then someone else comes along and claims he was feeling charitable toward the author until the end, when Ivrian and Vlana are killed.

Okay, but Fafhrd literally murdered a ten year-old boy, and if you don't count the dead-before-the-story-started father figures of Fafhrd and the Mouser, basically literally every male character who isn't Fafhrd or the Gray Mouser is their enemy before it's over.

This isn't to say that there aren't some unfortunate implications to the whole "ice witch" thing at the beginning, but that's the culture Fafhrd is from, and I don't think it's meant to suggest anything about actual women in the real world.

Interesting fact: On goodreads, the first review you see on the page for Swords and Deviltry is a woman with nuanced thoughts about how Leiber writes women, and a few posts down you see men shitting on it for being sexist. I'm not saying it ISN'T sexist, at least to some degree, but I think it's clearly in "relic of its time" territory and not "sexist by its own time's standards" territory.

I mean, shit, Leiber handles women better than Bakker.

Can someone make the 'What books do you want made into animes' thread on /a/?

>>8030710
Do it yourself?

>>8030710

Sanderson's everything cosmere related

>>8030710
>>8030722
Not that anon, but I'm bored in an airport, so I did it.

>>>/a/141447948

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>>8030710
Start it with one of those alternative anime-style Japan covers

>>8030763
Too late.

>>8030763
The other anon already did it.

Why did Severian disband the torturers guild?

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>>8029806
?

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>>8028901
Why did I read a book based on reddit cat memes? I was thinking about reading Dresden Files but now I know not to even bother.

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>>8031002
>Author approved cosplay

I hate cats now. Seriously, fuck you to everyone who suggested this.

>>8030941
Which order is better though?

>>8031065
Publication.

>>8031065
The publishing order. The author did a shitty job on writing their origin story in the Crown Tower. I would not have continued reading the books if it was my first exposure to the series.

>>8030754
Swords and Deviltry is the first one, yes. It doesn't really skip around. It tells Fafhrd's backstory, then the Gray Mouser's backstory, then tells the story of their meeting.

It goes like this:

>Swords and Deviltry
>Swords Against Death
>Swords in the Mist
>Swords Against Wizardry
>The Swords of Lankhmar
>Swords and Ice Magic
>The Knight and Knave of Swords

>>8030941
>Death of Dulgath cover
Its better than the rest but it fucks up the theme. Why did it happen?

>>8030941
>>8031071
Getting Age of Myth next month?

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>>8031109
You bet! If its even half as good as his other books I am going to be content.

>>8028911
Summoned.

Well ... i think the gurps book for new sun by andre-driussi has that, and that this web discussion kind of does that, but i havent read through it all to see how spoilery etc it gets.

https://pretentiouslatintitle.wordpress.com/2014/06/17/reading-the-shadow-of-the-torturer-chapter-i-resurrection-and-death/

Any particular questions?

>>8031141
Looks like they only got to chapter 10. Wah waaaah. The wolfewiki seems to have abandoned the summary a few chapters in as well. Weak. I care more for analysis, so my essays on New Sun are not organized summary in that regard and approach the work more holistically

Coming up on the end of the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser series.

Any other sword and sorcery fantasy about best buddies going on adventures together that you can recommend?

>>8030013
>Powder mage
I like you

>>8031257
No because the S&S genre is shit. just like urban fantasy.

just go read gay homo eroticism if you want buds doing bud things.

>>8031297
The Lankhmar series is better than Lord of the Rings.

Nehwon is a better setting than Middle Earth.

>>8030754
>No i havent, is it worth reading? I actually havent finished the riftwar series because i think in thhe third book it switched pov to a theif character and i lost interest, though i heard the book after was supposed to be tthe best in the series
I liked them. They're a bit more focussed than the riftwar books.

>45 days until Age of Myth
S O O N

>Thread is slow, want to see what other people thought and posted about the book I finished
>theres no /lit/ archive anymore

jesus christ are you fucking serious

>>8030335
>If it was a female character being ogled by men they'd scream about how it's sexist but because its the other way around it's okay?
It's okay until the unspecified time in the future when the history of male sexism has been balanced out, which should be a little after whites have been oppressed enough to make up for their past oppression but before it's okay to make fun of gays again.

>>8030808
Law was fulfilled, same reason Peter got the dream with the animals on a sheet.

>>8028901
>no jurassic park in general sci-fi

shit list desu

>>8030808
>honest man should not have to dispend pain

>>8031446
Fuck off back to Tumblr!

>>8030335
The 2nd book is way better. There's still a preponderance of female characters but the rest is far less SJWey. The new protagonist is a lot less Mary Sue and is actually interesting to read about. The plot starts up much more quickly and stays high energy the whole way through.

If you want a spoiler the main character from the previous book becomes the prime minister of india, but she gets completely stonewalled and accomplishes next to nothing by the time she has to leave office.

>>8031446
Oh boy, it's a 'whine about sexism to your hugbox' episode!

>>8031454
Technically yes, but it's much more of a thriller in its style.

I wish we talked about thrillers more, they've got their own literary standards and conventions, just like romance or mystery. Which we also could talk about more. Surely there is room in our hearts for all kinds of literature, not just teacup tragedies.

>>8031460
>>8031469
That anon was pretty clearly being tongue-in-cheek.

>>8031471
No room for mysteries either.

Maybe Thrillers & Mysteries can have their own thread too.

>>8031077
It was self published by Kickstarter. The author could not even constant the two guys from the other covers.

>>8031477
Are they really that close? I wouldn't mind overhearing anons who know comparing Doyle and Christie with those modern authors I keep hearing about, and I guess Rowling wrote some under a pseudonym.

Does anyone write Westerns anymore?

>>8031484
They're both very plot-driven and often make the readers worry about the well-being of the characters. I know the same could be said for sci-fi and fantasy, but I think they're at the very core of both thrillers and mysteries.

>>8031492
Thrillers allow the author to frequently address the reader for technical details, but they aren't always centered around a puzzle the author competes with the readers with. There are plenty of mystery/thrillers, but I'd say Clancy and Christie are separate genres.

>>8031484
>Does anyone write Westerns anymore?
Yeah, there's a hidden section of westerns at my Barnes and Noble at the end of the anthology section.

I'd like a mystery thread. I have no idea how to get into modern mysteries. Are they just written in the hopes of turning into a TV series?

Is there a /sffg/ starter kit?

>>8030437
Sexism is for the most part a stupid notion and anyone who talks about it in context of most things is probably a moron.

>>8031506
Rothfuss is a hack, Sanderson is anime, Wolfe is a meme, Wright is a fedora, Mieville is all of the above.

>>8031501
Sci-fi and fantasy aren't the same thing.

Fantasy is about knights in shining armor and really big lizards. Things that are scientifically possible.

Sci-fi is about stuff like faster than light travel. Things that are scientifically impossible.

>>8031502
There are some super-popular mystery authors I've heard of that don't seem to have been adapted yet. A lot of mystery just has neat-sounding premises, like a small-time burglar that solves crimes in his free time.

shit I made this recommendation thread before seeing this, could someone take a look >>8031496

>>8031517
I see what you mean. Yeah, if they were confined to a general they would probably be better off confined together. They don't mesh as well as F and SF, though, and both of them are much more normal and accepted pastimes. The /sp/ of /lit/.

>>8031522
Have you read Lord Foul's Bane?

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I've been meaning to read classical books(like Caesar's accounts of his conquests, The Art of War, all that jazz.) So that I can write a mid-fantasy series that isn't plebeian. I've already been doing much research into history and the society of begone eras as much as I can, but I need recommendations for material.

Any suggestions? I've these writings on my Amazon wishlist:
>Plato - The Republic
>Sun Tzu - The Art of War
>Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince
>Adam Smith - The Wealth of Nations
>Aristotle - Rhetoric
>Confucius - Analects
>Aristotle - Politics
>Friedrich Nietzsche - The Genealogy of Morals
>Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan
>Carl von Clausewitz - On War

I haven't looked into Romans yet(Cicero, Tacitus, ect), but I mean too.

>>8031522
The medium is fundamentally flawed. /tg/ can help you find more HFY, but the only people trying to find meaning in the fantasy-world-next-door genre are Japanese.

Well, there was that one with the D&D group that was supposed to be unexpectedly good. Guardians of the Flame I think. A lot of people thought Magic Kingdom for Sale -Sold was fun. Word for World is Forest had the technology gap, and it's supposed to not be Ferngully.

>>8031522
There are a couple series that are superficially similar, like The Lost Fleet and 1632 and Destroyermen.

>>8031533
that's a lot of fucking research just to write something noone will read desu

>>8031533
Ditch Adam Smith and Nietzsche, get political writings of Aquinas as a logical follow up on Aristotle.
Also read fiction with focus on characters and hope it rubs off, so Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Flannery O'Connor, Joyce.

>>8031375
When i started reading I thought it was the bakker anon, then I saw it's a Sullivan anon.

>>8031553
Alright, I was planning on reading Smith and Nietzsche already, but they shall be put on the back burner for the time being.

I've already began reading Crime and Punishment a few days 'go.

I'll google this Aquinas fellow and acquire some Tolstoy.

>>8031542
>>8031534
>>8031529
Thank you for the recommendations kind anons, and thanks for the acronym hfy this will help my googling

>>8031533
Analects are really hard to get into and not very well-preserved, start with Classic of Filial Piety.
Before you try Republic, study some of the Socratic dialogues, they'll help you get into the spirit of the times better.
The poetry of Bai Juyi. Simultaneously bizarrely foreign and a total bro.
Epictetus - Enchiridion. Stoicism is good for many things.
de Joinville - Life of St. Louis, Asser - The Life of King Alfred. Biographies written by contemporaries, giving the traits considered ideal at the time.

All of these works are relatively short and provide a path into the mindset of the ancients. If you have time to read Republic you have time to read Anna Comnena's Alexiad, which will help you far more in keeping your work from being plebeian. In fact, if you dive into the Alexiad and just read it front to back and your name's not Turtledove I promise you that you will not find it difficult to write non-generic fantasy.

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>>8031582
Ayy, Im looking into ol' Saint Thomas and by god did this motherfucker write a lot.

I'll start with Socratic Dialogues, de Joinville's Life of St. Louis, Asser's The Life of King Alfred, and I'll look into Confucius some more, starting with your suggestion of Filial Piety.

What would you recommend of Roman writings? I was thinking of hunting down Casar's campaign writings and somethings from Tacitus.

Again, many thanks

>>8031608
Filial Piety was actually authored by Zengzi, but it's a good summary of the philosophy without any of Mencius' or Xunzi's ideas mixed in. Be careful with the dialogues, they're deceptively complex, read them with a guide.

For Romans, Marcus Aurelius, Tacitus would probably be good too, but I can't vouch for their length. It would be much better to read a hundred short works than one incredibly long book.

>>8031555
His books are not that good, but they symbolize what true friendship is like.

So in Poseidon's Wake, what was the "big devastating secret"?

>>8031506
They aren't hard genres to get into, just choose whatever sounds interesting. Outside of LotR and Narnia for Fantasy and Asimov/Heinlein/Clarke, Dune, and 1984 for Science Fiction I don't think there are many works in the genres that are generally agreed to be seminal (and even the ones I listed are up for debate).

>>8031751

But Narnia is shit. Wolfe is a Catholic too but it doesn't shove Christ's cock down your throat like Lewis does.

>>8032220
>Christian author
Wow and I almost thought of reading him. Into the trash he goes.

>>8032220
>too
Lewis wasn't a Catholic.
Wolfe is also heavily shilling Catholicism to you, but most don't notice how heavy invested he is into it.

>>8032265

Dude I don't even believe myself and I still found Wolfe to be a very good read. You're missing out.

>>8032265
So you won't read The Divine Comedy? Epic plebery so typical of the modern age. So and so is a Christian/italian/black/jew/muslim/white/pagan/warrior of valhalla so I won't read him. Oh wait, that prejudice only exists towards Christians now.

>>8032340
Everything Lewis ever wrote was garbage.

Wolfe's writings at least possess literary merit.

>>8032386
Lewis is pretty decent, his essays are sometimes good, screwtape is probably his best, Narnia is great children stories.

>>8032404
His nonfiction is straight-up Christian apologetic cuckoldry. His Narnia stories suck -- even Pullman writes better kiddie lit.

>>8032407
And they are fun to read and bring interesting views, Narnia is also well written for kids novels.

>>8032378
>Oh wait, that prejudice only exists towards Christians now.

No it extends towards a gender too.

The lightbringer series is 4.5/5 on goodreads does that make it good?

>>8032424
Nope

>>8032378
You can't control the other factors. However you can control not being a braindead Christian since it's a choice.

>>8032220
I said seminal, not good. IMO Clarke is also a bad writer, but he's recognized as part of the triumvirate.

>>8032465
Jew muslim pagan? So dead Christians are okay?

>>8032465
In any case, Wolfe is smarter than all the people on this board put together. Even if you add me in.

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>>8032503
>Even

>>8032424
Read, form your own opinion.

>>8032596

I do like it, I don't understand why nobody on /lit/ likes it, which is why I ask

>>8032606
You already asked. Shitty action flick in book form.

>>8032607

>shitty

explain

And why is >action flick in book form
Bad?

There is a lot of world building and intricate things in the series, are those all discounted for some reason?

>>8032608
>There is a lot of world building and intricate things in the series
They aren't very good.

>>8032608
They probably didn't like the turbo virgin fat fuck losing his wizardhood at lvl 16.

Also I want blood mirror,is Gavin gonna draft white? Is Orhorlom actually the god?

>>8032616
>Also I want blood mirror

late october this year.

Bad news though, there will be a 5th book

>>8032618
>supoose to be a trilogy
>turns into a tetralogy
>suppose to be a tetralogy
>turns into a pentalogy
Next thing you hear it's going to be 6 books. This fucker is just stringing us along, and it's going to take another 2-3 years for him to finish book 5.

Say what you will about Brian Staveley and that third book with Adare, but the fucker was on time, and delivered in the prearranged amount.

>>8032610
>They aren't very good.

Explain

>>8032687
and aside from Adare the female chars were mostly based as fuck without feeling forced.

>>8032789
Different anon but,
The nations all conveniently correspond to a different type of magic, slavery is introduced for no reason other than to be 2edgy4you, the world is inexplicably confined to the areas around this one lake, crazy pirate is introduced for no other reason than to find the not-avatar, speaking of which the plot is basically ATLA but with more cuckoldry and edginess, and worst of all, everyone apparently plays a version of Magic the Gathering with inexplicably prophetic cards completely divorced from the rest of the magic system.

There are some interesting little bits here and there, like black people being better fighters because it's harder to tell when they're using their magic, but overall it's a total rehash of other stuff.

>>8032808
>and aside from Adare the female chars were mostly based as fuck
>wants to get stabbed every time you're looking to get your dick wet
You have some problems anon, seek help.

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I want to fucking punch the anon that said this cluster fuck was good.

>>8032896
>Joe Abercrombie does the blurb
What did you expect?

So i stumbled upon Michael Moorecocks book titled Jewel in the skull

is it worth reading ?
t. /lit/ newfag

>>8032933
Probably a stretch because he has range from great fun to horrible pseudo intellectual bulshit with say Behold the Man.

My friend watches GOT and wants to get into epic fantasy novels, but she doesn't want to read ASOIAF until the show is completed. I've mostly read sword and sorcery stuff in the past, but promised to find a series and we'd both read it.

What can you recommend as far as decent or better epic fantasy with at least a few likable female characters, that is fairly contemporary (I'm not dated anon, but I think for someone who doesn't read much, something more recent would probably be an easier spot to start).

>>8033065
Not 'epic' but she'd probably enjoy Hobb / Farseer.

>>8033102
Thanks. I'll see if she wants to check it out.

>>8033065
it's not a series but The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern is fantastic.
i'm currently reading The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by Jemisin, book one of three, and it's pretty cool

Wow, I really want a slave now after reading this book
I wonder where I can find one that won't run away

>>8033065
Hobb is probably safe for women yea.
She's good either way

DONT recommend Malazan.

>>8033431
>DONT recommend Malazan
Now I'm curious. Why not? Don't recommend immediately, or ever?

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Just finished the Ancillary Trilogy. Not bad.

Any good hard scifi recommendations?

>>8033458
Why don't you write a bit more about it anon?

>>8033452
Not the previous poster. Malazan is not epic fantasy, it's EPIC fantasy. Everyday characters are on the border of godhood. So, the scope of each book is a lot broader than most fantasy books and the writing style is very analytical when describing the characters, their motivations, the societies they live in, etc.

I would recommend it to all hard core fantasy fans but not to a newbie.

Any authors' debut novels come out in the past year or two and blow people away?

What's THE most recent sci-fi or fantasy debut that really impressed you, /sffg/?

Can anyone recommend an audiobook (or series) for me to listen to while I work?

I'd either like some Sword & Sorcery that isn't the Lankhmar series (just recently finished it) or some current sci-fi that's easy to get into.

>>8033470
Fifth Season is the only book 1 that I noticed that really has a buzz around it. Not really a debut though.

>>8032948
>pseudo intellectual bulshit with say Behold the Man
I kind of liked that one desu, but to each their own

>>8033483
I'll take what I can get. Gonna read it next.

>>8033516
Cool, post your impressions here when you're done.

>>8033459
> be me, trooper-carrying spaceship
> be sentient for thoundands of years
> have immense firepower
> use thousands war captives as my personal androids
> can perceive through them and act through them
> always follow human captain's orders
> be part of huge galactic empire ruled by a single all mightty immortal emperor
> be treated as a simple AI by most captains but actually do most of their work will they sit back
> bunchofassholles.jpg
> current captain is not bad
> stationed on newly conquered a planet
> she is just and cares about people
> like her although never show it
> (no spoilers)
> she dies
> i am destroyed except one of my bodies that carries all of my memories
> start epic journey of revenge

end of shitty summary

>>8033530
Sounds badass.

>>8033466
Different anon here, trying to transition from trashy urban fantasy to actually good books. Should I go publication order or chronological?

If it helps, I read Horatio Hornblower chronologically and Honor Harrington in publication order.

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>>8033470
The quantum thief.

However, i wouldn't recommend it to everybody because it's hard sci fi.

>>8033536
> Should I go publication order or chronological?

Are you refering to Malazan? If yes, read them as they were published. This is the only way they make the most sense.

>>8033554
Yeah, that's what I meant, thanks.

>>8033065
The Second Apocalypse by Bakker


Give her a trial by fire

>>8033536
>trashy urban fantasy
I hope you're not THAT guy.

>>8033547
This series was pretty great desu.

>>8033569
>likable female characters
>Bakker

>>8033569
Just read a summary on wikipedia. It looks interesting but VERY similar to the Dune books.

>>8033582
Yeah. I haven't found something equally hardcore since that.

>>8033481
Amber Chronicle is narrated by Zelanzy himself.

>>8033599
You high? Not even remotely similar.

>>8033599
Only one character is really based on Dune. It's definitely one of his major influences though.

Have you read anything new lately?

>>8033596
S E R W A
E
R
W
A

>>8033452
First book is nigh-unreadable and it's relatively hard to get in to

>>8033643
> opinion detected

I found it very enjoyable. It made me read all the books.

>>8033646
Yours is an opinion.
Mine is an empirically proven fact

>>8033581
The guy who made that 'recommendation' picture? No, but he made me consider making a non-bait one.

>>8033470
Red Rising
Enjoy.

>>8033814
>YA
Pass.

>>8033547
>battle autism
>weaponized memes
>4chan the novel

>>8033820
Don't bother with that YA marker.

I too thought it was shit when teh anon recommended it to me, kinda had a Hunger Games, fingers in the air whistle shit the first few chapters, but after that it gets hardcore.
>rape, gay, incest, cannibalism, backstabbing,
stripping a human body down to it's genes and building back up from the bottom

At least read the first book

>>8033628
You as in the General? or a poster in particular?

Are you a newfriend?

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>>8033840

>>8032265

>puts down greasy pizza to tip fedora with sweaty palm

Has anyone read the axe and the throne and is it any good?

>>8033535
Heard it slows down in the sequels, though.

>>8033814
Beat me to it. Red Rising.

>>8033820
It's sold as YA and for the first two or three pages it's pretty Orson Scott Card's Hunger Gattaca but then it goes a little crazy, then it goes off the rails, then it drags the rails down with it.

>>8033821
So Ghost in the Shell?

>>8033607
How's his phonic voice?

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>reading Vacuum Diagrams
>'Pilot'
>where they accelerate the satellite faster and faster to escape the missile
That was mag fuckin neto.

Any SFF books with a horror element to them? Not the "weird, bizarre" esque stuff, but the creeping eeriness kind, if you catch my drift.

>>8034133
Blindsight.

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>>8034133
Some of the Revelation Space stories have this as well.
>ascending an alien structure on a faraway planet as you replace your body with more and more machine parts to compute faster
>the feeling of wrongness given by the inertial-dampening machines and Exordium
>descriptions of the emptiness within interstellar space
Etc.

Besides some Anne McCaffrey and the Ender/Shadow series as a kid, and the Sprawl Trilogy and Snow Crash as an adult, I haven't really read sci-fi much, but I'd like to.

I don't mean science fantasy stuff. I've already read Dune. Something that's more clearly in sci-fi territory would be awesome. Especially if it centers around a core group of characters, telling their story over time.

Things I know I like:

>weirdness/surreal elements
>adventure, danger, and intrigue
>I've watched Star Trek: TOS and Star Trek: TNG and liked both, but liked TOS more

>>8034173 here. I forgot the question part!

What sci-fi do you think would be a good entrypoint for me?

If it helps, my favorite fantasy series are Amber and Lankhmar.

>>8034173
>>8034178
Try some Philip K Dick. Androids Dream perhaps.

>>8034178
Dick for gritty, Clarke or Asimov for more 'hard' science. Or if you're just looking for something a bit on the fun side, my favorite current SF series is The Lost Fleet by Jack Campbell. Koko Takes a Holiday is also fun if you like trash (in a good way)

>>8033842
What does that face suppose to mean?
If I saw a Japanese qt with a look like that, I would assume that she wants me to give her a dicking.

>>8034133
Rendezvous with Rama?

>>8030013
Is this autogenerated? Where can I make one?

>>8033599
bakker is god. best author of this generation

>>8028901
Inda any good? I love anything fantasy and loved malazan so shit ton of characters isn't a put off at all

Was Legend of the Galactic Heroes based on Dune?

also
>feudal setting
fucking sigh, why did I buy Dune knowing this going in, I read too many feudal books that it's getting boring. 70 pages in and I'm not sure I'll like it

also, /r/ing the Dune flowchart please, the archive is down

Any good Industrial Revolution fantasy, especially with a focus on politics?

>>8034523
Yes to the question. And yes, you'll like it.

>>8034523
Dune could have been an LoGH influence, but it wasn't necessary.

>>8032948
'Behold the Man' is a fun little book. Definitely worth the read.

If I posted a synopsis for a giant series that spans separate universes that include an ancient intergalactic war that goes for three thousand years and the effects are felt all the way into WWIII on earth (there's also magic and shit), one that is a different WWIII with a female Muslim warlord, one with a blonde Italian girl that fights demons, one where people fight with music, one with a Chinese ninja in New York, one where the rapture happened in WWII, one where a guy gets turned into a silhouette by a snake, like one or two others I can't remember off the top of my head, and also tells the story of inter-universal beings that fight against literally the embodiments of chaos and control and can defy reality to do so, a being that can manipulate connections, and a being that is literally the embodiment of the center of the universe, could I get a review?
Or have I already done enough damage?

>>8034582
>random ass religions
>gods
>retarded happenings
You just described 99% of science fiction.

>>8034281
Goodreads "books in 2015" feature. You have to make sure you list when you finished a book though.

>>8034592
Where did you get random ass religions out of that?

>>8034609
>people named after gods
>people who really are gods
>tons of religious references to either real or fake religions

>>8033821
>written by a finn
Ebin :DDDD

>>8034619
I don't think I ever mentioned gods
Or named any for that matter

>>8034662
The three points are what happens in most scifi so I guess want I'm trying to say is that your scifi is scifi-ish enough.

>>8034582
>lolrandumXD

>>8034671
I was asking more for a quality review

>>8034133
'I Am Legend' by Richard Matheson
'The Midwich Cuckoos' by John Wyndham
'The House on the Borderland' by William Hope Hodgson
'Something Wicked This Way Comes' by Ray Bradbury
'I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream' by Harlan Ellison
'Some of Your Blood' by Theodore Sturgeon
'Carrion Comfort' by Dan Simmons
'The Terror' by Dan Simmons
'The Passage' by Justin Cronin
'Imajica' by Clive Barker

>>8034678
Nice worldbuilding. Is there a story involved?

>>8034671
You must be thinking of fantasy. Science fiction is oriented toward the scientifically plausible.

>>8034695
see
>>8031517

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>feelio when you will never own the wind

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>>8034695
*raises eyebrow at you*

You're thinking of the wrong duality. It's not Fantasy and sci-fi; it's sci-fi and hard sci-fi.

>>8034688
The story sort of keeps building.
It starts from the inter-galactic ancient war bit, but layers keep adding until you meet the literal embodiment of the universe whom I've dubbed "The Mortal God" (there's the god stuff now), because he's a mortal being but he's literally lived infinite lives in his brief existence.
He has experienced literally every single life, every single version of himself, which actually inadvertently triggered the events that created the beings that travel between universes (like Mr. Nobody except on a much bigger scale).
I don't want to always rely in scale for suspense and drama though, I want the suspense to come from every single small struggle each character has to feel like the end of the world is on the horizon just because of how invested they are in it

>>8034716
Are you good at prose?

>>8034716
Correction, he's more like the embodiment of the center of existence.
Because the center isn't one single location.

>>8034726
I'm confident in my abilities. I plan to do a lot of writing, but I also want to make games.

>>8029058
Yeah.. I thought the Shankas were just some smelly barbariens until the end of book one

>>8034732
Then write it. Cool worldbuilding is CHEAP, you can find better settings everywhere, I've got better settings, but it's the writing, how well you make the characters come across, that makes the story.

Don't seek validation here for worldbuilding ideas. They are good if you can make them good. They are bad if you cannot make them good.

>>8034699
That post is utterly retarded.

>>8034746
Pretty much what I say all the time.
Direction you can't review, it's subjective. Presentation is what creates quality.
I dunno, I guess I just wanted to share. There's still a lot of planning and lining up all the plots and events and stuff.

>>8034582
Sounds like anime trash senpai

>>8034705
Nope. If it's not science fiction if its speculations are not constrained by scientific principle.

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>>8034761
Please reword your sentence. I'm legitimately confused by your articulation.

>>8034766
It's not science fiction if its speculations are not constrained by scientific principle.

>>8034766
Even soft science fiction is constrained by scientific principles. At its best it takes a single major divergence from scientific principle and then propagates that change logically through the world it's building.

Mass Effect did a decent job at the One Big Lie style of sci-fi. Chemical X or whatever the fuck isn't realistic but the world is internally consistent and the stuff it does is plausible at least within its own framework.

As opposed to something like Star Wars, which doesn't try to be logical or based on projected scientific advancements.

There's sci-fi, and then there's fantasy in space.

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>>8034523

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>>8034783
Nonsense. There are loads of sci-fi out there that have impossible concepts featured, akin to magic.

>>8034787
Mass Erect was just a poorly copied version of Revelation Space.

>>8034804
>Nonsense. There are loads of sci-fi out there that have impossible concepts featured, akin to magic.

That's called "fantasy", son.

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>>8034835
Sure but isn't the argument that sci-fi is /only/ hard sci-fi? Because as I said, many sci-fi stories have fantasy elements aplenty.

>>8034842
>Sure but isn't the argument that sci-fi is /only/ hard sci-fi?

No, soft sci-fi exists, which focuses on implications for the human sciences rather than the physical sciences.

>Because as I said, many sci-fi stories have fantasy elements aplenty.

There's obviously a spectrum, not a categorical distinction. That said, a story can be said to be "science fictional" to the extent that it presupposes a scientific (rational-empiricist) methodology in the acquisition of knowledge. The same speculative "element" can be regarded either as science-fictional if there is an attempt in the text to explain it rationally, or as fantastical if it is given a supernatural origin.

>>8034910
As an anthropologist, I'm really interested in soft sci-fi as you've just described it. Mind listing an example or two?

Is there any sci-fi or fantasy whatsoever that's like... neo-pulp? Adventure and danger around every corner, focused heavily on the characters themselves and their experiences, rather than bigger consequences, but more modern/contemporary and without being 100% rehash/homage?

>>8034917
Ursula Le Guin - The Dispossessed.

The whole sub-fields of alternative history and dystopian fiction would also fall under "soft science fiction" to the extent that they probe how humans might behave in various speculative circumstances.

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>>8034910
Well sure it's a spectrum but surely there's a difference between the dualities of Fantasy and Sci-Fi, and Sci-Fi and Hard Sci-Fi.

>>8034910
>That said, a story can be said to be "science fictional" to the extent that it presupposes a scientific (rational-empiricist) methodology in the acquisition of knowledge. The same speculative "element" can be regarded either as science-fictional if there is an attempt in the text to explain it rationally, or as fantastical if it is given a supernatural origin.
...which can include things that are impossible in the real world, such as Brandon Sanderson's entire corpus. His books take a science fictional approach to "magic," which is just a different kind of physics. So you're arguing about nothing.

>>8034917
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_science_fiction
Eat your heart out.

>>8034910
>No, soft sci-fi exists, which focuses on implications for the human sciences rather than the physical sciences.
Hard sci-fi means it is rigidly based in actual, as-we-understand-it-today science, sometimes with up to one speculative element. Soft means less rigid. Social science fiction can be classified as soft because we don't actually understand how social sciences work, it's not like we've got test civilizations in a lab somewhere, but soft SF does not have to be about social sciences.

It can be space opera, for example.

>>8034968
>It can be space opera, for example.

No, space opera is often just fantasy in space.

Soft-science fiction should be regarded a thought experiments in which humans are subjected to circumstances significantly different from our own. Dystopian/utopian societies for example.

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>>8034934
Sounds like the new stories in steampunk/dieselpunk anthologies, and lots of self-published works on Amazon. The problems with writing that sort of thing now are touched on in the Strange Horizons review of the dieselpunk anthology:

>Unfortunately, while a number of the stories are quite captivating, the selection reveals a major weakness of Dieselpunk, and indeed of dieselpunk’s embrace of pulp imagery: at this, the late date of 2016, there isn’t much that can be done with pulp that hasn’t already been done. The literature, however it is defined or delineated, has been exploited by genre writers, literary writers, and commercial interests continuously for decades. As early as the 1960s, Philip K. Dick was using his pulpy fiction to articulate his own explorations of the nature of reality. A few years later, Philip José Farmer was unifying all the heroes and villains of popular literature into one expansive multiverse. By the 1970s and 1980s, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg had turned homages to adventure stories and space opera into billion-dollar franchises. Today, you can pay twenty dollars for a movie ticket to watch corporate-curated pulp superheroes, or spend the same amount on independent comic books that offer pulp stories in choices of classic, modernized, or subverted. If dieselpunk is nothing more than the resurrection of pulp, then it is a redundant subgenre.

>>8035005
>Soft-science fiction should be regarded
See, that's where you're wrong. English doesn't have an academy that prescribes use of the language, it has academics that describe it; and while we can pontificate about the obvious debt Star Wars owes to common fantasy tropes, if you want to be understood you'll call it a sci-fi.

You seem ignorant about the origin of the term "hard science fiction." I suggest you start there.

>>8035018
I want publishers to stop calling subgenres "something-punk" when there's nothing punk about them.

>>8035052

>My lord, she may be a punk; for many of them are neither maid, widow, nor wife.

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>>8035018
>Philip José Farmer was unifying all the heroes and villains of popular literature into one expansive multiverse.

>>8035086
this senpai desu

>>8035086
It's never as good as it sounds.

>>8035099
I've read Philip José Farmer before. His writing is fantastic.

>>8035086
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wold_Newton_family

>>8035108
I don't disagree, I've only read a short story of his and I really liked it, but it's not a question of PJF's ability, it's about his ability to imitate all of the authors of popular literature.

Does pulp hero stuff like The Shadow or The Spider, which has fantastical and science-fictional elements, but mostly is about a dude kicking ass, fit on /sffg/?

Why are there so few good new fantasy series with proper magic, all there is is anime sanderson and rothfuss

>>8035180
Define "proper magic"

>>8035183
Not that anon, but I want weird, creepy magic that only the insane and the insanely dedicated are willing to fuck with. I want curses uttered in death and familiars to be creepy.

Think of the magic in old sword & sorcery shit.

>>8035183

Used more than a few times every 100 pages and there are limits to it, not OP shit like burn entire army in 1 second

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In all of science fiction and fantasy, there is no other bromance, or friendship in general, as great as that of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

>>8035202
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsBKM5puZDM

TOGETHER, FOREVER, AND EVER THE FEELIN' ONCE AGAIN, HEAR IT ONCE AGAIN...

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>>8034533
Maybe Stephenson's Baroque Cycle?
It would be very early in the Industrial Revolution.

>>8035202
How do you pronounce Fafhrd?

>>8035233
Fafferd. It's clarified in Ill Met in Lankhmar. When he and the Mouser met, the Gray Mouser asked him how to pronounce it and he clarified.

>>8035194
Curse of the Black Sword if you want series. Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell if you're fine with stand-alone.

>>8035180
Because magic is inherently a meme.

>>8035180
What about the Craft Sequence

How were the Discworld movies? From what I've seen they look like budget Tim Burton. I don't think they tried to compensate for the loss of narrative voice.

>>8035180
The second apocalypse

>>8035051
Star Wars is standard space fantasy. No idea what you are on about.

>>8035292
>hey average English speaker what's your favorite sci fi?
>hey marketing folks what do you sell Star Wars as?
>hey normal human beings, what genre is Star Wars?
I completely understand where you're coming from but it has spaceships and portrays the Force as a natural law.

>>8034686
How is Clive Barker's stuff in general? I love the Hellraiser movies, but I just realized I've never actually read anything by him.

>>8035300
Go back to plebbit with this plebby gibberish.

>>8035344
'Imajica' is the only one by him that I found worth reading. It's quite imaginative fantasy.

Anybody know if there are any fantasy magazines that still come out? Especially anything where authors publish stories about the same characters over time, like the way Conan or the Lankhmar stories were originally published.

>>8035359
I hope you like social justice.

>>8035359
I don't know how many magazines still do serials, but there are plenty of SFF journals. Check the SFWA site. They have a list of acceptable publications that count toward membership status, so those likely have the highest quality stories.

>>8035359
Beyond Ceaseless Skies

>>8034695
>Science fiction is oriented toward the scientifically plausible.
Which is technically what it should be, but authors stuff their scifi full of religious references.

>>8035361
I'm a leftist, but I don't like "joining the military to murder brown people is a civil right that should be extended to gay people" non-critical bullshit liberalism.
>>8035368
Cool, thanks.
>>8035369
Thank you.

>>8035382
So you're a right-winger?

>>8035383
No? I think people should have equal rights and seize the means of production. I just don't think issues are totally unrelated such that the world is objectively better if, for instance, more the number of people joining America's military goes up in the name of gay rights.

That said, I don't really want to get into politics here because I don't want to derail the thread.

>>8035382
>"joining the military to murder brown people is a civil right that should be extended to gay people"

Well put - I'm on the same page. I like to say "I don't want to 'diversify' the boardroom, I want to firebomb it".

>>8035400
>>8035385
Well, you cultists would probably enjoy the kind of thing that gets into modern SFF magazines. Although don't hope for sword and sorcery unless it's deconstructing or decolonializing something and the girl rescues the dude, how original.

>>8035379
Supernatural entities don't exist (in a scientific worldview), but religion and superstition certainly do. It's fine to portray religious behavior in SF as long as the mythological constructs are not taken as real.

>>8030941
>>8031065
>>8031068
>>8031071
>>8031077
>>8031109
>>8031137

Why aren't Sullivan fans memeing him to death?
The Riyria Chronicles are the modern and better versions of Gray Mouser.

When people ask for sword and sorcery, recommend Riyira.

List anons come up with modern books that can take the place of the memes the dinosaur clan throw around.

>>8035479
>better than Gray Mouser
Has never happened.

>>8035479
>it's the dated anon

>>8035479
Sullivan and Leiber's writing styles are completely different though.

>>8035269
Very slow. Entertaining if you don't mind the television miniseries type pacing.

Hey /lit/, found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvcKB9vQO0

>>8035726
Also, I've been getting into Ellison and the whole New Wave sci-fi, which is probably my favorite type. Sucks that The Last Dangerous Visions will probably never come out.

>>8035728
Harlan doesn't write Sci Fi though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtdEIG5OTjY

If anyone is having trouble finding a book or series they can try >>>/t/680325, it might take a while to get enough metadata to select which ones to download though. Also lurk before posting, just because it's at page 8 doesn't mean the thread is dead.

>>8035352
I'll give you a superb piece of information. Science fiction and fantasy are the same thing with a fluid difference of aesthetic.
>>8035202
I beg to differ, Jonas and Severian are up there.

>>8035946
Star Wars → The Force → 'Empathy'
Gundam → Newtypes/Minovsky particles → 'Empathy'
Hyperion → The Void Which Binds → 'Empathy'
Vance → Magic = Scifi
BoTNS → 'There is no magic. There is only knowledge, more or less hidden.'
Doctor Who → Clarke's third law 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.'

>>8035966
What's this - notes you took while tripping on shrooms?

>>8029924
>Maps are always interesting.

Not if you've posted them literally a THOUSAND FUCKING TIMES

FUCK OFF

If you propose a rule in a book, must that rule be broken later? Ive been bored at work and thought that a fantasy world in which magic literally can't harm people as a hard baseline rule would be cool.

>>8036341
Shinsekai Yori

>>8036341
>If you propose a rule in a book, must that rule be broken later?
Why would it have to be? Maybe people might anticipate the rule being broken, but that doesn't mean you have to do shit.

>a fantasy world in which magic literally can't harm people as a hard baseline rule would be cool.
Where's the boundary line between effecting the world and hurting people? Are magicians allowed to use magic to throw rocks at people, are they allowed to remove all the air from an area? I feel like that sort of system is depending on a completely esoteric, and philosophically insane magic system

File: 51NNve8He2L._SX338_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg (36KB, 340x499px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 340x499px

Roche did nothing wrong

Moon Lords did nothing wrong

Empress did nothing wrong

Darrow did nothing wrong

New thread:
>>8036620
>>8036620
>>8036620