/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

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>>7992428
>What's your favorite book about (or inspired by) the King Arthur mythos?

I've always really enjoyed Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles. Been meaning to read his Sharpe stories too.

the once and future king you stupid fucks

>>7992505
>random BR thinks he speaks for everyone

Don't you have a soccer stadium to burn down?

>>7992505
what's a br?

>>7992505
Uh I think you mean Le Morte d'Arthur dumbshit

>>7992551
nah that shit is mad boring and ultra repetitive.

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My first hardback book. My aunt let me pick it out in the bookstore in fifth grade.

>>7992428
Fate/Stay Night

What fantasy books should I read if I enjoy serious lit but my favorite books as a child were lotr, narnia, potter etc... Looking for lit grade fantasy

>>7992428
Parzival or The Faerie Queene tbqh familie

>>7992653
the once and future king is the only acceptable literary fantasy

>>7992653
The Gormenghast books, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, stuff by Gene Wolfe (he's a meme 'round here, but legitimately good - that said I like his short stories better than BotNS or Latro). And >>7992505 if you haven't already.

>>7992653
Seriously read ASoIaF by GRRM. Its not lit grade (or is it?) but it is masterfully crafted story and universe. One of the best imo.

>>7992653
The Prince of Nothing by R Scott Bakker

>>7992664
>>7992671
>>7992677
Since when did sffg become meme general

>>7992671
lol don't do what this guy says. you will be wasting your time. book 1 blows, book 2 and 3 are great. 4 and 5 are utter shit and 6 will suck too then fatass will die and you will have wasted your time.

>>7992693
Since when was Bakker a meme?

>>7992693
since when was the once and future king a meme. it's second only to the Lord of them ribs

>>7992653
Little, Big by John Crowley. It's Harold Bloom-approved

>>7992712
About equal I'd say

>>7992739
I personally like it better than LOTR but I know a lot more people have read the Lord of the rings. merlin and Pellinore were just so damn funny.

>>7992653
Books by William Morris, George MacDonald, Mervyn Peake, Jorge Luise Borges, Italo Calvino and Ursula Le Guin

>>7992671
He said "lit grade", moron.

>>7992670
>>7992757
Damn, how'd I forget Borges?

>>7992670
>>7992722
>>7992757

These.

Also: Lord Dunsany, E. R. Eddison, James Branch Cabell, Charles G. Finney, David Lindsay, and Hope Mirrlees.

>>7992782
Probably because he's considered a great and important author in general, and not just primarily in the fantasy genre

>>7992791
Some of these seem like authors less famous than they deserve to be given their influence

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Any books with a power and knowledge hungry mage as the MC?

Alright, so recently I read A Scanner Darkly and Electric Sheep. Are there any other books by PKD I should read? If not, who should I move onto?

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>>7992808
All I can think of are Dragonlance books with Raistlin, loved 'em as a kid but looking back they probably weren't that good.

>>7992653

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2365.Pre_Tolkien_Fantasy

Do you guys think Doors of Stone is getting released this year?

>>7992808
Name of the Wind. Though he's more of a power and knowledge and pussy hungry bard cross-classed into mage, warrior, priest, alchemist, chick-magnet, and jock.

>>7992847
>Jock
When was he a jock? Are there even sports at the University?

>>7992828
Three Stigmata, Valis, High Castle. Most recommend Ubik too but I didn't think much of it.

>>7992858
If there were sports Kvothe would have obviously been the best at them.

Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist?

>>7992887
Cause Kvothe is the best at everything besides affording wizard school.

>>7993075
Yeah, your diary.

>>7992840
No. Word is its getting some heavy editing


Because Rothfuss is a hack

The Mists of Avalon

Also Gene Wolfes short story The Death of the Island Doctor

Also also, Glastonbury is Avalon. Until the Middle Ages the region was estuaries and swamps, the hills formed islands in it, then they built dykes and drained it. In the 12th century during the reconstruction of Glastonbury Abby a coffin carved out a tree trunk was found inscribing it as the coffin of King Arthur.

>>7992670
Wolfe hasn't done Arthur but he has done two works that refer elliptically to Arthur myth, the death of the island doctor and the wizard knight

>>7991581
It has a lot of archaic language so maybe he'll take it for techno babble.
>>7991575
Good recommendation.
>>7991572
Maybe some Philip K. Dick? A Scanner Darkly is kind of but not really a scifi and deals mostly with how much drugs ruin lives.

>>7993075
Alice in wonderland.
>>7992808
Elric is the most obvious that is also a pretty decent series.

>>7992444

This

Based Derfel. It actually felt real.

Anyone here read "The Stars My Destination" by Bester? Is it good?

>>7993405
Yes, it's a fun read. Your entertainment may vary.

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Need and honest opinion on this book. Is it worth it?

>>7992634
Pyle is based. You read Robin Hood?

>>7993198
Castleview ... the magic animal for merlin/viviane. Castleview isnt one of his best. Death of the island doctor is more about the seasonal virtues of life (and death) and the magic of love.

>>7992428
>asks the same edition questions twice
You're not that grandpa lecturer by chance, are you?

>>7993687
Yes.

>>7993687
you wont regret it t b h

its a good time to get into the series now since the last book is happening soonish

>>7993786
The last book of the second series was divided into two, though.

FUCKING PATRICK

RELEASE THE KINGKILLER CHRONICLES #3 ALREAYD REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe

Why do I even bother reading active fantasy books

It's fucking guaranteed the next book will take a decade to come out

>>7993793
Probably for the best. I hear its going to be a nuke.

>>7993825

Does anyone know of any similar awesome series books to Kingkiller Chronicles?
Must have magic

>>7993842
How about you try asking reddit

>>7993854
Actually good advice for half of people here

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first for Dalinar

>>7993863

GIBS ME DAT NEXT BOO KALRDY!!!!

>>7993863
boring old duffer desu

>>7993854

I don't know hot to

>Lit keeps spouting how rothfuss is shit, sanderson is shit, stephen king is shit
>I love most of their books

Why is lit always wrong?

>>7993897
Go to /r/books and make a thread

>>7993909
/r/fantasy dude

>>7993899
Because you came from Reddit.

>>7993914

how could i come from reddit when reddit didnt even exist when i came here

>>7993912
Damn, was hoping that was a sex sub

>>7993916
This is the fantasy/sci-fi thread so you msut be a time traveler

>>7993916
Anyway if you've been here so long then it's probalby because you wathc lots of anime or some shit so that would explain your bad tastes

>>7993922
Anime is superior to books tbqh.

>>7993922

I didn't get into reading until last year
Thanks a lot compulsory reading in schools that made me hate books

>>7993923
It stopped being funny to say this five years ago

>>7993926
That's because it was never a joke.

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>>7993899
Oreos are shit, hotpockets are shit, sodas are shit, hell even rice and past is shit if you're not outside doing hard labor/sports.

That doesn't mean they aren't delicious. Talking of Rothfuss, Sanderson, King on /lit/ is like talking of Oreos, Hotpockets and Sodas on /ck/.

It's trolling, and while it's fun sometimes, your opinion can only be frowned upon. It's not that people hate oreos, it's that people ate real literature and found out they prefer health, taste and subtlety over dopamine.

>>7993928
True, it was always a poor attempt at one.

>>7993899
King is not great but he has at least contributed some good short stories to horror. Rothfuss and Sanderson aren't even good for their genre.

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I've recently gotten into Sci-Fi but I also want to get into Fantasy too, my absolute favourite is pic related.

I really like Swords and Sorcery stuff like 70s Dark Horse Conan or Dungeons and Dragons, is Dragonlance a good first choice for me based on that?

>>7993962
If you liked Dune I'd recommend Second Apocalypse since the author cited Dune as an inspiration (and it definitely shows)

>>7993962
Have you read Elric of Melnibone? He's pretty essential for Sword & Sorcery.

John C. Wright BTFO by GRRM: http://grrm.livejournal.com/485124.html

Not a Martin fan, but Wright deserved that.

>>7993962
>is Dragonlance a good first choice
No, it's super-generic YA trash.

Have you read BotNS yet?

>>7993983
I have no idea what either of htem are talking about but I bet there's nothing remotely interesting about it

>>7993983
Martin seems to be a swell guy, don't really care for his books, but that was good.

tfw when Wright's whiny self-aggrandizing tone is so similar to the currently ongoing pol-threads that you wonder whether he posts on /lit/

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>>7993983
>>7993999
Actually, this John C. Wright guy seems like kind of a badass, and I bet he just makes you fags feel insecure.

>tipping his fedora since 2006

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>>7993983
>I myself grow rather weary of watching shows or reading books from a foreign culture, where fornication is considered lawful and admirable, sexual perversion laudable, and there are no families to be seen. No one goes to Church, no women are feminine, and no men are masculine.

>That culture is political correctness — but it is more foreign to me, and more offensive, than reading traditional Japanese novels or watching Chinese historical dramas where polygamy and suicide are regarded as normal. At least the Chinese dramas show a proper respect for motherhood and family duties. They are peopled with real, if pagan, people, whose emotions and motives make sense to me.

>I will be reading merrily along in what I think is some perfectly ordinary adventure story or science fiction yarn, when suddenly a minor character, such a policeman, will announce that he has a husband. No one around him reacts as if he is a sick pervert or a crazypants. Because in crazypantsland male is female and female is male.

>when in a cop show, the cop’s partner decides to fornicate with the cop’s daughter, the true depth of emotion is displayed when the partner kneels and offers the daughter a box from a jewelry store. Inside is not a ring — fooled ya!–but a key. He is offering to move his gear into her apartment, to make the fornication and the eventual break easily to manage logistically.

>The cop, instead of drawing his sidearm and blowing the brains out of the man who is frelling his daughter outside of wedlock, merely looks mildly grumpy and says the situation is ‘weird’ but he is glad is his daughter is seeking happiness in shallow copulation with an unmarried man who has only moderate affection for her.

>These are not human emotions. A Martian, perhaps, would look upon the reproductive antics of his daughter, and hopes that she will raise his grandchildren as bastard in a single-mother home with no father, almost certain to be beaten or killed by one of her serial live-in lovers, but no real father from our planet, not one worthy of the than, hopes this.

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>>7993964
It looks good, I'll give it a change.
>>7993967
Who wrote it?
>>7993990
What's BotNS?

>>7994011
>>7994006
I'm dying

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>>7993899
>>7993932
>It's trolling, and while it's fun sometimes, your opinion can only be frowned upon. It's not that people hate oreos, it's that people ate real literature and found out they prefer health, taste and subtlety over dopamine.
This exactly. If you had something to say other than "fuck you I liked it" that challenged our perception of any of the books you mentioned then we could have a proper discussion about it, but as it stands you're not really contributing to the conversation at all.
You might also want to examine why you love their books. The Name of the Wind is basically Twilight with pretensions of grandeur, it opens with a monologue about a broken man slowly withering in the shadows of his achievements and then turns into "Kvothe is the Best at Everything" and as far as I can tell it's nothing but mental masturbation masquerading as something worthwhile. It's a shame too because Rothfuss has beautiful prose when he's not imagining himself a Kvothe or jerking of to how music is 3deep5you.

>>7994006
>No politically correct person has ever displayed the courtesy of a swine since the beginning of the world: they neither doff their caps to ladies, nor ask if you need any comfort, nor listen to your point of view, nor salute you will courteous greetings, nor say “sir” and “ma’am” and “miss” and “missus” like anyone not raised in a barn would do.

When reading Wright I have to remind myself that he's American, because in my head he sounds like a constipated Chesterton.

>>7993983
I'm not really seeing any BTFO here, this makes GRRM look like a whiny bitch.

>>7994012
Book of the New Sun

Its sci-fi, but also very good

It also has very rabid fans here who can recommend nothing else, so be wary lol

>>7994018
> Rothfuss has beautiful prose
Lol, examples?

>>7994023
Go to bed Wright

>>7994023
I think they're both bitches.

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>>7994012
Book of the New Sun, it's like anime only Western.

>>7994031
I bet the book is much better in Japanese.

>>7994031
I'd actually watch that

>>7994012
>Who wrote it?
Michael Moorcock.

>What's BotNS?
Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe

>>7993983
" The Hugo Awards demand greatness. "
Top fucking kek mister Martin
>>7994023
Wright really is an ass and he went a bit too far in basic /pol/ talk instead of steering towards the quality of bloggers such as Edward Feser.
Now the strange thing is that 2 books in Golden Age I can see him as one of the best newer science fiction writers alive and is certainly much better than Martin if we compare their most famous works (for one Wright actually finished it).
An ass as he may be he's a damn good writer.
>>7994025
I recommend it with at least 3-4 other authors.

>>7994038
Golden Age has nothing to do with his newer works that were nominated, which are terrible.

>>7994025
>>7994031
>>7994035
Alright I'll look into it.

Any more essential fantasy?
Have never even read LOTR.

>>7994042
>Have never even read LOTR.
Start with the Hobbit

>>7994038
Hmm if his novel writing is anything like >>7994011 I don't think so

>>7994042
Don't bother, it's garbage.

>>7994023
I don't think it makes him seem whiny but timid. It's a pretty mild rebuke, if reasonable, and certainly isn't going to put Wright's ego in check.

>>7994027
>>7994038
Did you actually read Wrights blog post that triggered GRRM though? GRRM didn't address shit and chose to attack multiple strawmen.

And both of you need to stop playing whataboutism with Wright.

Also Song of the dying earth was fucking terrible and barely fanfic tier, half the authors don't even have seemed to have read the original short stories.

John C. Wright is a neckbeard-wearing, fedora-tipping, m'lady-saying, ayn-rand-worshipping christcuck. Quite a combination.

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>>7994044
I read it as a kid, I liked it back then but it wasn't anything special.
>>7994047
I listened to an audiobook version for half an hour before turning it off because it was boring as hell.

Is there anything out there like Dragonlance but good?
I've heard good things about Malazan Book of the Fallen and The Blade Itself.

>>7994045
Nothing he said was wrong, but the novels aren't like that, in fact they are not preachy at all. Sure, it's a libertarian free market utopia, but a well written one.
>>7994051
No, I skim through his blog from time to time, but it isn't very interesting. Link?
>>7994042
Probably Worm Oruboros, Tales of Dying Earth, Conan stories, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, other Tolkien stuff like Silmarillion, Gene Wolfe was already mentioned.

>>7994056
First Law is shit, trust me.

If you want something old school I guess the Worm Ouroboros

>>7994045
His work with Castalia House is noticeably looser with regards to editing.

>>7994060
That's because you choose your own editor at Castalia House, so authors tend to pair themselves with yes women.

>>7994056
Both of those are great, but you probably want to delay Malazan for a bit because it's a huge commitment. Go with First Law.

>>7994051
>Did you actually read Wrights blog post that triggered GRRM though?
Yeah, it was an illogical and unhinged jeremiad.

>>7994058
Actually pretty much everything he said was wrong, but more importantly he writes like a fag

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who here /death gate cycle/

>>7994060
Someone should inform him of this.

>>7994054
Who lets Neil Gaiman into all of these anthologies, and all the 'Year's Best' ones as well? And who keeps asking him to write forewords?

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>>7994059

>>7994066

Now I'm torn

>>7994077
Read it if you want, I'm just saying its shit.

In its place I'd say Gentlemen Bastards

>>7994077
First Law is absolute garbage writing wise, but honestly depending on what you are looking for you may like it. If you are 16, or don't read in general and spend most of your time gaming and watching anime you'll love it. If you are interested in the literature part of fantasy you'll dislike it.

Is there any reason I shouldn't read The Black Prism (Lightbringer)

>>7994077
He's the guy that shits on everything who isn't Wolfe or an author that has been dead for at least 100 years , ignore him. Or, just google for yourself and see. First Law is highly acclaimed.

>>7994085

He's a spook

>>7994083
It's like an edgy ATLA/Harry Potter hybrid. It's ok but don't expect to have your mind blown

>>7994085
Scott Lynch is very much alive, I also recommended him Second Apocalypse

both outclass the fuck out of First Law, and GB actually had a slog on the latest book.

First Law? Just a series of cheap pulls and feels like a watered down GRRM condensed into action movies.

Which fantasy books have the craziest most complex magic systems

>>7994094

Anything by sanderson

>>7994085
>He's the guy that shits on everything who isn't Wolfe or an author that has been dead for at least 100 years , ignore him.
You're exaggerating, and there's a lot more than one of us. Head over to r/fantasy if you don't like literature.

>>7994095
Is there a fantasy book with a magic system based on the classification of finite simple groups or other things from advanced mathematics

>>7994105
No.

>>7994095
>Sanderson's magic systems
>Complex

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>>7994105

>>7994095
Sanderson is the opposite of complex though. Everything is very simple and explained.

>>7994107
I want to read a book with inter-universal Teichmagic in it

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>>7994082
I have never finished a single fantasy book in my life next to The Hobbit.
I'm not really looking for intelectual fantasy if that makes sense, I mostly read comics or watch accesible fantasy movies and I'm looking for something a lot like D&D and Swords and Sorcery with the predictable teamup of a wizard, an archer and a warrior or something similar.

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>>7994011

He's not wrong, he's just le pretentious autistism fedora

>>7994113
Write a short story about it. Writing is as good as reading if you're honest about what you want to write.

>>7994113
Wait for Greg Egan to write a fantasy novel.

>>7994044

Read it again.

The hobbit is far beer than lotr

>>7994059

> Worm Ouroboros

A hard book to start, but a hard book to put down after the first 50 pages.

>>7994111

>Vacne
>a magic system based on anything other than delightful spell names and beautiful descriptions

Sorry m8, it's a genius system, but not what he's looking for

>Shardplate is magically-enhanced plate armor that offers great protection and also massively enhances the wearer's strength, speed and dexterity. A person wearing Shardplate is referred to as Shardbearer. There is one major advantage that Shardplate offers the bearer: it can block a Shardblade.

Even the Sanderson wiki makes his work sound dull

Are there any fantasy books with magic based on Kabbalah?

>>7994094

the magicians

>>7994135
The Zohar.

Anyone know any good scifi that goes into blurring the fundamental nature of reality and space-time?

>>7994134

I have ran D&D campaigns that were more original than that.

>>7994152
'Schild's Ladder' by Greg Egan.

I am illegally acquiring the Graphic Audio version of The Black Prism at the time of writing this post.

>>7994116
Fuck sake just read Dragonlance or some Forgotten Realms shit then.

>a novel about language
>Catachresism and syllepsis everywhere

>>7994165
I am posting my response to the reply number 7994165 at the time of this post.

>>7994134
>There is one major advantage that Shardplate offers the bearer: it can block a Shardblade.

But isn't the increased strength and speed also a major advantage? Also any fantasy story with items that literally improve "stats" is instant trash. I'm all for people reading for enjoyment, anything to get people to read more, but that kind of writing is just sad.

>>7994134
>There is one major advantage that Shardplate offers the bearer: it can block a Shardblade
>one major advantage
What about all the shit that was just listed about protection and enhancing the wearers abilities? That seems majorly advantageous to me.

>>7994175
>>7994179

>>7994152

Anything by Philip K Dick, particularly Ubik

>>7994179
Nerd fight!!

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>>7994171
I'm sorry Anon, is that what those books are like?

>>7994188
Largely, yes. They're already d&d campaign settings for a start.

>>7994165
>Graphic Audio

Why are you butchering the novel?

>>7994172
What's the novel fampai

>>7994199
alright.

So what does /lit/ think about audiobooks and adaptations such as Graphic Audio™

>>7994116
Sounds like you should be watching Record of Lodoss War.

So say I want to start writing genre fiction - do I need to plan the whole story out first or can I just think of a cool idea and wing it? How do short story writers do it?

>>7994226
of course you come up with a draft for the entire story first... what kind of question is this

>>7994226
They take 14 years to write it and another 10~ to edit it.

>>7994232
Can't I just put in whatever random crap I want then half-ass an ending to put it all together. Most endings are crap anyway. I'm not good at planning ahead.

>>7994237
I guess what I'm asking is if it's possible to totally wing a half-readable genre fiction book? Has it ever been done?

>>7994237
>>7994241
if you don't put in work, it won't good. whether it's "readable" depends on what person you ask, and how good your innate skill is.

>>7994241
its possible but it wont be read

>>7994241

Of course it has been done; every imaginable novel writing technique has been done before. Asimov somewhat famously hated working with outlines and serial drafts, he just started out with a beginning and ending in mind and just connected point A to point B. But Asimov was an established professional by the time he started doing that, whereas I'm imagining you've never written anything longer than a short story before. The question is, do you honestly think that you can write an entire novel from start to finish without any preplanning, without the whole thing falling apart halfway through?

>>7994085
My r/fantasy r/etarded friend is there even an author in fantasy who died more than 100 years ago?
>>7994116
Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Elric of Melnibourne series are exactly what you are looking for. DnD took most inspiration from those. Conan for general feel of adventure and barbarians (although Conan isn't a brute, or at least wasn't in the stories I've read), FaGM feature the rouge + barbarian bro duo and Elric basically Warp from Warhammer.

>>7994269
>Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Elric of Melnibourne series are exactly what you are looking for
I don't think he's looking for dated trash.

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What are good fantasy or sci-fi books to read while not sober?

>>7994134
It's Fantasy Power Armor. das it mane
Seeing Shardplate used in creative ways is pretty gnarly like when Kaladin fucked up those niggas by using the gauntlet as a melee weapon.

>>7994273

As opposed to modern trash like Sanderson?

>>7994260
I guess not. Damn. I didn't know that about Asimov though. What a legend.

>>7994260
>without the whole thing falling apart halfway through?

It didn't for me, but then again I did have to revise it a hundred times or more.

>Think about a really super cool mechanic
>Implement it
>Realize I could change the first few chapters a bit to accommodate for that so it wouldn't just come out of nowhere

>>7994218

Please respond to my honest question, I haven't formed an opinion on them yet but I want to hear others so it would help me when I am formulating my own opinion.

>>7994282
this is why i outline on larger works

better to do half the rewrites in my head than on paper

Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist, or an immortal little girl protag?

>>7994273
The older a book is the better it is generally speaking, because it's something generation after generation remembers and that is how classics are born. There is no such thing as dated, unless it was a bad novel to begin with (Neuromancer for example).
I know you are a simpleton and that there is no point in discussing anything with you, but I'll leave the comment for the other guy.
>>7994299
Alice in Wonderland.

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>>7994299
Kizumonogatari

>>7994320
Except no one remembers them as they're worthless. Fafhrd has only 1400 votes on GR. And you can't even pull the "the public is too dumb" for it card here because it's shallow stuff.

>>7992428
The Crystal Cave.
It attempts to expand on the actual story, so it's a great starting point.
Though one major problem I have with it is Uther's weak reasoning behind hating magic. In fact a lot of character motivations are a little "this is how the story goes."

What do you guys think of Peter Watt's Blindsight?

>>7994331
7500 votes.

>>7994331
9k over 2 editions, one being titled Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, the other being Lankhmar Book 1.
Public is too dumb, but it's even now popular.
And it's even no20 on this shitty list making it one of the first recommendations when you google "best fantasy novels"
http://bestfantasybooks.com/top25-fantasy-books.php
Just fuck off to some retarded forum where everyone sucks each others' dick

>>7992670
>Gene Wolfe
>BotNS
I don't understand why it gets recommended. The series is terrible.
The characters' emotions are always explained and never really shown.
Severian's motivations are entirely suspect:
Thecla was a friend under duress.
Agia's self justifications are delusional and the vendetta is entirely forced.
Severian's loyalty to Vodalus is undeserved and unexplained.
Severian's quest to Thrax, given at the outset, is entirely ignored and instead he wanders about with everything else happening by chance.

Bad characters, weak plot, what's left? beautiful descriptions and a sense of adventure? Also absent.
What a hack.

>>7994388
You missed a considerable amount of layers bud

BOTNS is a book you re-read and learn more about, if you skim you miss all kinds of little shit, especially concerning Sev and Thecla

How can you a read a book again

There's no fun in it, you already know everything that happens...

>>7994388
Prepare for downvotes. It's a bad book with obsessed and insecure fans.

>>7994397
Sometimes it's been awhile and you forget details.

Like I haven't read the Prince of nothing since it first came out, I plan on rereading it before The Great Ordeal comes out, to refresh my memory

>>7994406
Those have recaps IIRC

>>7994395
as did you.
My comment requires at least a dozen reads.
To train the palate.

>>7994409
Recaps don't recapture the magic as well as rereading the material does.

You miss out on the tiny details, and only get the broad strokes

>>7994397
Because you get into the depth of the novel more. You miss things, you can revisit his thoughts, you understand the characters more, you notice dozens of symbols which weave a narrative of their own.
>>7994388
>I don't understand why it gets recommended. The series is terrible.
I would recommend finishing it first if you haven't and watch these videos to shed some light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKw_xUI6fDE
>The characters' emotions are always explained and never really shown.
It's his personal narration, everything is shown through his lense.
>Severian's motivations are entirely suspect:
>Thecla was a friend under duress.
She was his first love and much older than him, he was at the time a young lad and she was the woman he could only dream of, but deep down not so much which is touched upon more later on when he eats her flesh.
>Agia's self justifications are delusional and the vendetta is entirely forced.
You don't see much of her, but having her brother and lover killed by Severian (in public, humiliated, broken and tortured) is a good of a reason as any as far as I'm concerned.
>Severian's loyalty to Vodalus is undeserved and unexplained.
It's abandoned the first time he meets him, which is quite clear really. He was deluded, Vodalus was an idol of independence and gave a sense of scale to his then young, sheltered life where he felt how his life was pointless. He even tries to justify the torture throught the novel, but bans it by the end.
>Severian's quest to Thrax, given at the outset, is entirely ignored and instead he wanders about with everything else happening by chance.
Nothing in the novel happens by chance, the chance is one of the major themes, free will, order of the universe and the plan of God (for example how a lowly, evil man full of lust and spite can change and be an instrument of His will).

>Bad characters, weak plot, what's left? beautiful descriptions and a sense of adventure? Also absent.
You mistake your shallow reading of the novel, even leaving it half finished (which is a larger probelm with this one as opposed to most others due to intricate structure of it all) with Wolfe being a hack.

>>7994077
if someone says something is shit on 4chan it means 9/10 it's ok

according to /lit/ there's about 4 books ever written worth reading

>>7994430

Two of those books are shit.

>>7994433
and one of them wasn't written by Pynchon, so...

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>Anonymous is mentioned in a forum post on the cosmere site
wololo

>>7994430

So invariably, only Sanderson is worth reading...

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Any advices on star wars novels? I'm just looking for some light read, that's well written and doesn't continue for twelve novels by as many writers. So, complete work, trilogy at most.

Thinking of picrelated.

>>7994439

link?

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>>7994446
It was just like
>if Shards were Patron Shards, who would they represent?
And a random saying Autonomy would stand for the freedom fights, revolutionists, etc., even Anonymous.
Nothing big.

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Who else hyped?

>>7994456
Do you think anyone will read your self publish?

>>7994468
I'm not even the guy who wrote it, I don't even know why I'm shilling

>>7994470
I don't know either, even he said it was YA bait in an attempt to make money

>>7994456

>Martell

Sorry I don't read books by game of thrones fangays

>>7994472
When I googled it I got directed to a sneeze fetish forum.
So I have my reasons.
http://www.sneezefetishforum.org/index.php?/topic/65265-priestesses-of-the-plague/
It's a pretty nice read if you're into sneezing.

It could be fun since it's meta.
I've managed to read the first Vampire Academy either way, this can not be worse

>>7994426
>It's his personal narration, everything is shown through his lense.
A poor choice then. The series is worse off for it.
>but deep down not so much which is touched upon more later on when he eats her flesh
It sounded more like a recant than further explanation. He did knowingly jeopardise his life to save her some pain and an uncertain death.
>but having her brother and lover killed by Severian
In a fore-planned duel. There was no malice on Severian's part, it was a con gone wrong and Agaia was entirely at fault. Not to mention the time she spent befriending him.
>It's abandoned the first time he meets him
The first time he meets him he swears fealty. Just before the canabalism event you mentioned earlier.
>even leaving it half finished
Actually it was the second novel I left half finished. One and a half books chance than any series deserves.

I'll watch the video.

>>7994487
>The first time he meets him he swears fealty.
he quite literally says he has no intention of following Vodalus even though he's complying....

Pretty sure Agia was able to tail Severian for so long because Hethor was willing to do anything for her

>>7993831

Try reading Horus Heresy, if you're fast you might read the entire series before it finishes.

>>7994487
>A poor choice then. The series is worse off for it.
It's far reaching influence in fantasy is most famous because of it.
>It sounded more like a recant than further explanation. He did knowingly jeopardise his life to save her some pain and an uncertain death.
It's closer to terrible pain beyond imagining and a slow and certain one.
>In a fore-planned duel. There was no malice on Severian's part, it was a con gone wrong and Agaia was entirely at fault. Not to mention the time she spent befriending him.
He wasn't supposed to get himself resurrected by the claw and Agia isn't exactly a sane person. His malice also became a thing when he found out and was talking with Agilus. He was seething with it. Like I've said, he did publicly torture and kill him.
>The first time he meets him he swears fealty. Just before the canabalism event you mentioned earlier.
He swears it because him abandoning his fealty to just about everyone is one of the personal failures he copes with the entire time. Also he says a few pages later and makes it clear that he has no intention of being loyal and realised how Voladus of his imagination is not the real one. It's quite clear from the novel.

>Actually it was the second novel I left half finished. One and a half books chance than any series deserves.
It's a single novel artificially cut into4 parts for publishing reasons.

>>7994515
Yes, he had the beasts from all over the universe such as the Natchuels which our friend just missed.

>>7994547

what
the
fuck

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>>7992428
The Pendragon Protocol by Philip Purser-Hallard, it's a modern setting with the
Knights as living memes -the main character takes on Gawain's heraldric symbols, and it starts to alter his personality. Really cool concept, it's left ambiguous whether these
people are actually the reincarnation of dead knights or just fit into the same archetypes.

>>7993831
robert jordan died and martin is on his deathbed, who're you talking about?

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How do we save fantasy?

>>7994600
>Pendragon

What is pendragon?

Is it a pen wielding dragon?
Or is it like a short version of pentadragon meaning five dragons or five headed dragon? Or 5 dragons being inside of 1 dragon?

>>7994605
>IMG_59421.jpg

Go to bed Brandon you're not welcome here.

>>7994444
Darth Bane books are p. gud, maybe Outbound Flight or Plagueis too.

>>7994605
More Bakker less sanderson

>>7994605
There's so many books out there, there ought to be good new releases. But no one here is trying them unless word of mouth spreads etc. All we can do is wait until we hear of a new great.

>>7994606
It's a name.

>>7994606
Uther Pendragon, the father of Arthur. Though considering all the memetics/power of story stuff going on, it might be a cheeky reference to "Pen is mightier than the sword" or something.

>>7994605
Muh prose

Everyone should write like Eddison or Peake. Light shouldn't "shine" but should "smote". No fun is to be allowed

>>7994604
Is he really on his deathbed? He seems healthy enough for a fat older dude. Does a lot of appearances and the like.

>>7994606

it's welsh for alphaasfuck dragon.

>>7994605
We ban proof reading and publish once a month.

>>7994630
being obese is worse for you than heavy smoking.
I have no idea how his health is, but being overweight past 60 doesn't end well

>>7994605
We need more people who read Eddison or Wolfe or LeGuin or Dick, and are inspired by them to write, and less people who read Sanderson.

Anybody read "The Last Mortal Bond" by Staveley yet?

I basically devoured the first two books, but the third one won't arrive until friday... FUCK

All I want to know is: Is Pyrre alive?

>>7994659
My great uncle was fat, smoked most of his life and he died in his 90s and to his dying day was the physically strongest dude I ever knew.

>>7994661
>LeGuin
Not this meme again.
There is no great female literature

>>7994671
yes

>>7994661
We really don't.

>>7994661
We need more people who start with the Greeks.

Bakker shows the way

>>7994185
I tried ubik and got 5 chapters in, but it was just a buncha bureaucrats running around which got old. Does it get cooler?

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>>7994682
You are the meme my friend.

>>7994741
Retard.

>>7994743
>ad hominem
You know I'm right

>>7994706

Yeah, the book sort of melts as you go further and further along

>>7994444
>Thinking of picrelated.
Read it. I enjoyed that series enough to buy the whole set, and I'm not really a Star Wars fan.
> I'm just looking for some light read, that's well written and doesn't continue for twelve novels by as many writers.
Well, 9 books and 2 authors. I liked the second half written by Aaron Allston better. They can be treated as 2 separate series with some cameos.

...and now I find that there's a tenth one out.

>>7994743
Just ignore him completely.
Report if you want too, maybe 100 report will get him banned.

>>7994690
I don't know of a single good writer who hasn't desu

Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist that's not alice in wonderland.
Already downloaded that book and will read tomorrow.

>>7994861
No.

>>7994861
>Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist that's not alice in wonderland.

The Iron Dragon's Daughter, by Michael Swanwick.

Underrated and obscure, but fucking great. Read it.

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>>7994861
How about SciFi?
I insist you fully research the SFF loli subgenre and report back with a pictoral chart.

>>7994861
the golden compass

As someone with vague ambitions of writing genre fiction, can anyone tell me if traditional fantasy exists anymore? And if so, does it sell?

When I look at magazines that publish genre stories today, I see a rising trend of fantasy stories with a modern day sensibility, or fantasy that only really exists as an allegory for contemporary issues. I'm thinking of Clarkesworld, Apex, Strange Horizons, etc.

And even then, SciFi seems hugely more popular in those markets.

I know vaguely of people like Patrick Rothfuss, Brandon Sanderson and the like, but they seem like the exception and not the rule. As someone who grew up reading Gene Wolfe, Jack Vance, and Mervyn Peake, it's weird that the trends set by those writers don't seem to have been continued.

>>7993964
>If you liked Dune I'd recommend Second Apocalypse since the author cited Dune as an inspiration
Wait, really? Currently reading it and I think it's the best fantasy I've read in a while. I read Dune but didn't really like it, and I fail to see how it inspired the Second Apocalypse.

>>7994881
>>7994889
>>7994892
Thanks mates.

>>7994897
'Traditional' has been done to death really. What sells are good and interesting books, not rehashes of the exact same tropes.

But I don't think fantasy has to be set in modern day or anything like that.

>>7994897
People are getting more and more retarded to the point pulp for kids from 80 years ago is profound literature in comparison

>>7994910
What I mean by 'traditional' has more to do with narrative tone than actual content.

Vaguely medieval, magical, and populated by characters who behave and speak with some degree of formality.

I don't mind swearing or bawdiness, but it does bother me when characters act like they just walked off the set of Game of Thrones. Maybe I'm just an autist with a dry personality and no sense of humor?

>>7994881
This.

Very atypical and refreshing novel

>>7994918
There are still books like that. Check out Guy Gavriel Kay if you haven't. While I didn't like Assassin's Apprentice, I think it's also what you're thinking of.

If it's good it'll sell really, not much to it.

>>7994918
The issue is less that publishers don't sell those books, but more that most writers aren't good enough to write something like that.

Also, stop reading those magazines. They're run by idiots who wouldn't know good literature if it bit them on the ankle.

>>7994911
Fluctuating publishing trends have a lot to do with the language used by writers.

Since publishers no longer pay by the word, novelists are no longer incentivized to pen their narratives are wordily as possible. The trickle effect of this is that readers are demanding snappier and snappier reads, since they want the biggest return for the least time invested.

But, of course, by today's industry standards the snappiest reads are written at great cost to the story's overall quality. The equilibrium between 'storytelling' and 'prose writing' has been lost. Story is king. Only people who have been established authors for the last 30 years can afford to get away with prose writing.

>>7994900
Bakker is a huge Tolkien fan and never stops singing his praises. I'd say that's a much bigger influence than Dune

>>7994900
Really? Its pretty clear

>The general overload of philosophy
>Pretty much all of Kellhus and Dunyain

Like other anon said Tolkiens a big deal too but I distinctly recall Bakker saying Dune was a primary influence

>>7994948
I really want to like Bakker, but his books have a sleep-inducing effect on me. It's weird, because I think his ideas are fantastic. I almost feel like... even though his world is incredibly nuanced, his beat-by-beat character interactions are too generic?

I tried chewing my way through The Darkness That Comes Before, and I absolutely loved the entire prologue. Then the book began in earnest, and every time a character opened his mouth to ramble about politics, or to frontload a bunch of exposition, my eyelids grew heavy.

>>7994956
You're not wrong. Dune is mostly an influence on his creation of Kellhus. I was just pointing out it has more in common with Tolkien than it does with Dune

>>7994964
The first bit of darkness is pretty heavy with exposition, I'll agree with you there, but once it's all set about halfway through Darkness it really takes off. When akka interrogates the skin spy

>>7994978
I'd say Dune was more of an influence on the thematic underpinnings while Tolkien influence comes in with the world-building itself.

>>7994935
I'm starting to agree with you about those magazines. Clarkesworld in particular seems like it's become a haven for a lot of mopey faux-literature and 'progressive genre' stories.

Then again, most of their writers are published novelists, and I'm just bitching on /lit/.

>>7994997
I would say the writing style falls pretty consistently somewhere between Tolkien and Dune.

The rest of the time Bakker's doing his freestyle prose poetry thing, which is sometimes cool and sometimes incomprehensible and tiresome.

>>7994964
I had the exact same feeling with Dune. The prologue of Darkness seemed a bit steep to me at the time, but I continued reading and I could barely put the book down.

Currently rereading the prologue, do the rest of the Dunyain all commit ritual suicide or am I reading too much inbetween the lines?

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>>7994117
Alt-right weenies please leave and never come back.

Am I right in thinking that Lies of Locke Lamora plays in a Venice-esque place? It sounds like it.

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>>7995187
woah, someone had the same idea

>>7995232
At least you put some effort in your shoop.

>>7995232
The Iron Dragon's Daughter is the Stirner of fantasy

>>7995205
yes

>>7995177
Only those who were contaminated by the dreams and the mission.

Halfway through In Greens Jungles. Holy fuck it's confusing.

>>7994889
We need more niche charts in general.

>>7995353
There are only two people who can explain it, and one of them is Wolfe.

Is there a faster way to lose respect for an author than to read their twitter feed?

>>7995435
Seeing them debate cut vs uncut?

>>7995435
Try being blocked by an author you've actually given money to. I never even tweeted at N. K. Jemisin!

>>7995442
Cut!!!!

>>7995433
Is the other Absolute Aram?

>>7995451
She was actually who I had in mind when I made that post

Holy FUCK she's need to stop right now

>>7995458
You know it.

>>7995459
Social justice!!!!! Ba dum dum

Hey guys, the fantasy books I really have enjoyed are evrything by Tolkien, Asoiaf, Robert E. Howard Conan books and The book of the new sun.
Is "The way of kings" any good for someone like me?

I just finished The Hero of Ages in the original Mistborn trilogy. The next trilogy doesn't really interest me. I've read some more from Sanderson (Stormlight Archive was excellent so far), and I've read Kingkiller and Gentleman Bastards and enjoyed them all. Where should I go from here? A friend of mine recommended Riyria Revelations but I'd like some more input.

>>7995467
If you place prose and character highly... probably not. But it is pretty good

>>7995433
I'm having trouble connection the time and event chain and the whole Krait is Sinew so bloody strange, connecting that with the banter in form of short stories and how they may or may not tell what happened with Horn... There is a massive hole in what exactly happened on Green with the whole town thing and the war and the wives, but also him being talked about. Add the Neighbors who kind of may or may not have transferred his consciousness back to a dying man on Blue... God it's good to have Wolfe back.

>>7995467
Not one bit.

>>7995472
lightbringer by brent weeks

>>7995472
Not sure if you're just shitposting or not, but Riyria is actually better than on of the others you mentioned. Highly underrated just because modern fantasy readers care more about being author fanboys than they do about actual stories. Just look at Rothfuss' next book on Goodreads it has tons of high ratings and pointless reader awards and it isn't even out yet.

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>>7995356
Your wish... has been granted. Ideas for others?

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>>7995521
How about a chart for Sword and Planet stories?

>>7995521
How about alternative histories featuring dragons?

>>7995499
The secret of the inhumi is banal but its application is profound. The relationship between sinew and krait involves the feeding habits of krait's mother.

>>7995356
Indeed, that's what I'm trying to encourage.
>>7995521
Good job anon!

>>7995550
I assume she fed on Sinew or something alongside those lines. The secret seems that they want to be human, but I can't really say.
I also like the shift in how Horn thinks and talks in Green as compared with Blue, which only makes sense since there is I assume at least a 10 year difference. He's much more honest and thinking of the future consequences, much less self centered and knows a lot more about strategy.

>>7994679
Spud Webb was 5'7 and succeeded as a professional basketball player. Therefore, the idea that short people are unlikely to make it to the NBA is nonsense.

>>7995517
Nah, not shitposting, just asking for honest opinions. I legitimately know nothing about it, which is why I was asking. So, thanks!

>>7995513
I will look into it, thanks!

>>7995497
Yeah, think so.
Will probably like it, looking for a good big fantasy world to get in. Nothing too "literary", will read!

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>>7995472
Next book has the best character out of anything he has ever written. If you wanna be a shit then go on ahead and be a shit by yourself in the corner.

>>7995579
Well there is a difference, that's for sure. I think you will appreciate the vid on short sun a lot after you finish rttw.

New FANTASY general

>>7995032
>>7995032

>>7995761
DELET THIS

>>7995761
yes
>>7995797
don't

>>7995797
DELETE THIS

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>>7995472
Recommend Riyria its good

>>7996125
>>7996125
>>7996125
New Thread

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NEW BREAD

>>7996125
>>7996125
>>7996125

NEW BREAD

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>>7995761

DELET THIS!!!!!!!

>>7996136
Too late fagget

>>7993783
>>7993786
Thanks.

>>7993081
He sucks at math and chemistry.