Prove him wrong.

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>>7848190
>Brazilian

>>7848203
>ad hominem
Beat me to it.

Paulo Coelho has no discernible talent.

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>brazillian
>writer
pick one

>>7848190
he's right though. I hated that book. it was so boring. wake is even worse, unreadable.

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>>7848211
You look like a pleb right now, bro

>>7848190
reddit: the author

>>7848216
literally hue

>>7848190
But it is pure style.

>>7848213
Theres nothing wrong with it, mi compa, that book is fucking good

> She is drowning. Agenbite. Save her. Agenbite. All against us. She will drown me with her, eyes and hair. Lank coils of seaweed hair around me, my heart, my soul. Salt green death.

>>7848190
You know what's 'harmful' to literature? Prominent literary figures turning against one another for no reason other than, "he doesn't write like me".

Like holy shit
I can enjoy Coelho and I can enjoy Joyce. I can enjoy them in the same sentence. Why do you have to go start shit for no reason?

>>7848225
>Prominent literary figures
>Coelho

tfw

>>7848236
you need to post a face picture when you use tfw

>>7848239
it's that (inferred) feel when
not that face when

>>7848245
Yeah but I don't know what you're feeling.
Anger? Surprise? Frustration? Comfort?

If you are the one making the claim, then YOU have to prove the claim. It doesn't work the other way around! For fuck's sake!

>>7848190
>Prove him wrong.
None of his books could make out to the /lit/'s top 100 books.

>>7848222

South America's greatest writer.

>Machado de Assis was included on American literary critic Harold Bloom's list of the greatest 100 geniuses of literature, alongside writers such as Dante, Shakespeare and Cervantes.

Álvares de Azevedo is better than Machado.

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He describes Ulysses as once stripped down, "a twit", implying little to no substance?

My counter-argument is that Ulysses revels in the minor and insignificant. It's 900 some pages set in one, not very important day in Dublin. Sound shitty? It's purposeful. The parallel with the Odyssey is the key; making a side by side comparison of the epic heroism of the Greeks with the masturbation and daily goings-on of a less-than-ordinary Jew in Dublin is Joyce's celebration of the ordinary. There's both nothing and everything in a day.

>Paulo: "I'm modern because I make the difficult seem easy, and so I can communicate with the whole world."

Joyce captures the ordinary: fart jokes, jerking off, your dick floating to the top of a bath like a flower, talking about Hamlet, walking on the beach, etc. Communicating with the world is his entire concept. Dubliners, for example is another collection celebrating and lamenting the ordinary. Portrait is similar: although Stephen is brilliant, he's a perfect bildungsroman character. Can't speak for Finnegan's. Maybe someone will chime in.

post: Paulo's writing is pulp trash for pc self-helpers from what I've heard.

>>7848190
>le smug populist face

Leo Bersani's 'Against Ulysses' is still the most intelligent attack on the novel. No-one gives a shit what Coelho or Roddy Doyle have to say.

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>>7848357
He actually said Ulysses can be condensed into a tweet.

>>7848190
Easy, Paul Coelho said it.

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>>7848357

But...Ulysses isn't referencing the Greeks...it's a reference to Shakespeare...

...but what does a guy like little old me know?

...

>>7848357
>Coelho is, of course, entitled to his dumb opinion, just as I am entitled to think Coelho's work is a nauseous broth of egomania and snake-oil mysticism with slightly less intellect, empathy and verbal dexterity than the week-old camembert I threw out yesterday. But the attack is, inadvertently, interesting. Coelho is not the first to attack Joyce: Roddy Doyle has, Alan Bissett has, and Dale Peck made it the central, rotten plank of his sour and sanctimonious anti-modernist criticism. Whenever there is a reactionary attack on contemporary literature, a snipe at Joyce is necessary.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2012/aug/08/paulo-coelho-attack-ulysses-insults-readers

>>7848394
>Coelho's work is a nauseous broth of egomania and snake-oil mysticism
hits the nail right on the head

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>>7848190
>brazilian

>>7848265
>he's the greatest South American writer because someone else said so

>>7848203
>>7848211
>>7848414
Why is /lit/ turning into /pol/?

>>7848190
>there's nothing there

but he's describing his own work

>>7848406
This also applies to Jodorowsky

>>7848422
when the leftists left

>>7848422
it's reactionist against the redditor influx

>>7848433
/pol/ shitposters are *not* antibodies, they're a pathogen. They do not cure influxes of reddit, they mask the presence of reddit with more severe symptoms.

>>7848445

Enlighten us on what the proper antibody would be

>>7848422
/pol/ swarmed all the slower boards

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>>7848429
Nah, Jodo doesn't try to hide he's a maniac.

>>7848454
that doesn't make it ok..

>>7848470
No, but at least it's interesting to watch.

>>7848451
There are no antibodies on the internet to stop the infiltration of redditors. Did you not witness the fall of Pepe?

>>7848224
>seaweed, hair
>wrapping around me
>salt green death

that was pretty nice, anon.

>>7848482
pepe is immortal

>>7848482
Good old 4chan contrarianism is a better counter to reddit than butthurt /pol/drones

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>reading no-discernible-talent-tier criticism

Some literally hue br can't read modernism. Move along.

I know we always have to pretend like 2-3 writers from shit hole parts of the world are readable, but let's not pretend they actually are; and much less that they have an opinion that might matter.

>>7848519

But Clarice Lispector is an actual good author from Brazil. Granted she's technically Ukrainian, but still.

>>7848190
Coelho is savage.

>>7848190
I'm starting to think this man is mentally retarded.

I'd rather have a bunch of /pol/tards than filthy brazilians

I haven't read his critique, but saying that it is pure style is not a criticism. Many of nabokov's works are pure style as well, but what else is there? Not every book is required to make a grand statement or "mean something."

>>7848536
sounds like you are a poltard m8

>>7848537
so then Ulysses is just genre fiction

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>>7848519
You think Paulo Coelho is the best Brazil has to offer? He is a joke even in Brazil.

>>7848537
>>7848546

So then all fiction is just genre fiction.

>>7848555
As a brazillian citizen, i can confirm this.
Paulo Coelho represents brazillian literature much as Donald Trump represents the average american's IQ.

>>7848571

Donald Trump's IQ has been estimated around 150...so...

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>>7848571
Trump is a very smart man though so I am fine with that

this isn't reddit you know

>>7848571
Kek Trump is a smart man who is pretending to be a retard. If you can't see that it bodes ill for your own IQ.

>>7848522
I am not surprised.

All that aside, yes there are good SA authors. I'm more talking about the bullshit we pretend that always. 2-3 living authors from every region are worth reading. That's not true.
And I'll bet fair, I come from Canada and we currently don't have much to offer either. Munro is not worth reading and she's toted constantly.

>>7848247
This is because of autism, my child.

Cease and desist, everybody, this is not /pol. Mea culpa.
My point is that Coelho is very poorly regarded by anybody with even a modicum of literary knowledge in or outside Brazil.

>>7848261
He has reasoning in the article. Read more.

>>7848357

Musee des Beaux Arts

W. H. Auden

About suffering they were never wrong,
The old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position: how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully along;
How, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting
For the miraculous birth, there always must be
Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.

In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away
Quite leisurely from the disaster; the ploughman may
Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry,
But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
Water, and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
Something amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
Had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.

>>7848190
Borges like it. Thats it.

>>7848454
i love this man so fucking much

>>7848393
I think for the point and after some light googling, it may be sufficient to say Ulysses is pretty much a reference to the entire western canon.

>>7848406
Don't forget the plagiarism.

>>7848203
>>Brazilian

it's a fair point. he has no frame of reference to talk about european lit...

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>>7848422
>Why is /lit/ turning into /pol/?

we've had enough, that's why

>>7848422
i don't go on /pol/, faggot. brazilians suck and flood this board with terrible posts.

>>7848422

its a joke as well but you''re still a faggot and i hope you respond to everyone with >>>baited

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>>7848660

Yes and no.

I was kinda sorta joking and kinda sorta not joking. We know that the Greek Ulysses was Joyce's all time favorite character. In all of literature. He's said so.

Obviously the Odyssey is an influence but it's not the only influence. And, as far as I know, there are only two writers in the English language to go after Shakespeare's Crown, openly declare they were going after it/thought they deserved it, and have the stuff to back it up or, at least, someone could make a convincing that they come close.

One of them is the Irish Joyce. The other is the American Whitman.

They went about it in different ways, but they both went for it.

>>7848190
One-hit wonders will do anything to try to make themselves still seem relevant.

>>7848555
>>7848571

Guys I'm Brazilian by heritage but American, I've never really identified with my ancestry but what's some essential Brazilian lit?

>>7848190
>There's nothing there

I'm not as keen on Joyce as others are but this is ironic coming from the man who wrote the fucking Alchemist

His criticism of Joyce doesn't go beyond his prose. Coelho on the other hand has actually had a negative impact on modern literature.

>>7848883
>Coelho on the other hand has actually had a negative impact on modern literature.

how so

>>7848276
Lol I bet you actually use Slipknot shirts, you edgy fedora

>>7848887
The Alchemist has been a primary influence on all that new-age spiritualist nonsense and the self-help literati who peddle their fluff on the likes of Oprah's book club. It's the equivalent of philosophy for soccer moms, young adult fiction but aimed at an adult audience.

>>7848475
Don't reply, there's been a guy(s) shitting on Jodo the whole week, I bet there's some secret agenda behind them or some shit but idk maybe we should just kyss

Are we seriously discussing fucking Paulo Coelho's argument? P A U L O FUCKING C O E L H O

This is shit literature that everyone's mom reads, the shit that "I LOOOVE TO READ" girls read... who the fuck this guy think he is do be dissing anything? Even if it were true that the book was shit..., well I guess it takes a shitty writer to know a shit book.

>>7848915
>This is shit literature

It's not literature.

>>7848190
That is one smug face.

>>7848904
>It's the equivalent of philosophy for soccer moms, young adult fiction but aimed at an adult audience.

Best summary of The Alchemist

>>7848239
That's mfw silly
>>7848236
This is a terrible post kouhai

>>7848422
You're thinking of /int/. Brazilian xd

>>7848566
Genre fiction works are not pure style though ...?

>>7848577
The average American does not have a 150 IQ so he is right.

>>7848211
>Who's Rubem Fonseca?

why does /lit/ hate genre fiction so much?

>>7849383
Because they have taste newfag

>>7849387
*tips fedora*

>>7849391
Hats don't look good on me. :/

>>7849383
Ever managed to pick up chicks on your genre fiction collection? Hipster pussy is the best pussy.

>Brazilian nigger
>good at literature

>literature can't be style
>it's the LAW

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>>7849406
>Ever managed to pick up chicks with your genre fiction collection
>implying you can pick up chicks with books

>>7849418
yes
>>7849413
yeah yeah, read the thread faggot

>>7848190
DON'T READ THE FUCKING GUARDIAN

>>7848393
>Ulysses isn't referencing the Greeks
There's a lot of Aristoteles and Plato in there, especially in Stephen's chapters.

>>7849478
>Aristoteles
who did he mean by this?

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>Paulo Coelho

Kek, an author whose books are forever piling up in bargain bins and yard sales and who everyone will forget about as soon as he's dead. Nothing to see here people, move along.

>>7849479
To be fair, that's how the rest of the world knows him. Anglos cut off the last syllable of every Greek name for some reason.

>>7848247
use context clues you retarded 9gagger.

>>7849480
More than I'll ever be tqbhwy familamajam.

>>7848190
I am Brazilian, nationality that, to my shame, is the same as Coelho’s. You want to know what is the problem with Paulo Coelho? Here's the problem:

>a) As a writer.

He is a writer whose books deal only with esoteric themes, new age topics, pseudo-spiritualism and especially religion (a lot of religion). Paulo Coelho writes what people in general (and we all know that the general population does not have anything remarkable in the mental department) want to hear: he talks about the power of the human soul; about God and God's love for everyone; about things like “if you really want something and wish something, than this something will happen for the whole universe is going to conspire to make it happen [go tell that to terminal cancer patients who wish with all their souls, with all the juices in their bodies, the heat in their blood and marrows to just keep on living]”; he speaks that everyone can achieve great things and be significant (usually by just wanting to be so); he pseudo-philosophizes about life after death; talks about his own “experiences” with angels and demons, and so on. In other words: he is just a mix between a self-help writer and a dishonest-priest.

1/2

>>7848265
That list includes Borges as well.

>>7849519

>b) As a human being.

Paulo Coelho is a despicable person. In reality he is a coward that poses as some kind of saint and guru (and anyone with half a neuron knows what gurus are made with). Some examples of the glorious life achievements of this fellow: when he was young he hit a child with a car and fled the spot with fear; in his youth he was also just a scrawny and shy, a fearful and frightened boy (his surname, Coelho, means rabbit, which is appropriate, since this animal is shy and fragile), but today he loves to tell interviewers about how he was "wild" and "crazy" in this days of youth, and that he was able to fight the demon, sober up and, after long years of toil, changed himself into a much more spiritual and enlightened being. He says he can control the weather and see angels and stuff like that (now, anyone who makes such claims is either psychotic or a charlatan, and Coelho’s eyes look too much like the eyes of a dead-fish to indicate that he actually suffers from some sort of mental illness – what remains is charlatanism). In fact you cannot see an interview with Paulo Coelho without wanting to vomit with his air of superiority and the faker-look. He once had an affair with a woman and got her pregnant. After undergoing an abortion, she had a heavy depression. Coelho encouraged her to attempt suicide (hiss reasons were that he through that such mystical and psychoanalytic approach, a kind of shock therapy, could help her). Paulo Coelho (in a biography written about him) appears forging the signature of his own father, plagiarizing a text from Carlos Heitor Cony (another Brazilian writer) and giving interviews about a meet with John Lennon that never happened. He is, in short, a bad character.

He is that typical character of Portuguese-catholic morals: that kind of people who talks about god and religion and saints and reading the bible but that are constantly acting like cowards and weak-willed sinners. You know, the 2 things that the suburbs and neighborhoods have in greater quantity in catholic countries are churches and bars: this is the typical contradiction of this kind of culture. People rant about Jesus and Mary and the holy ways that will conduct you to heaven and think that it is a big sin to miss Church, but this same people, after church and work, will go to the bars and drink all their salaries in cachaça, and gossip about others, and don’t pay the bills, and don’t go to school, and lie, and cheat, etc.

It is no wonder that Protestant countries in Europe are richer, wiser and much more organ ized and cultured than Catholic ones.

>>7848190
Paulo Coelho is for those people who read eat, pray, love and Nicholas Parks.

T. Alberto Barbosa.

>>7849522
This turned into an essay, but the premises are poorly explained.

>>7848357

>Finnegan's

>>7848671
Literature from Portugal is read in Brazil since they speak Portuguese.

>>7848519
Last time I checked England and US were cesspit so what are the countries we should take seriously?

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>>7848522
>mfw searching clarice lispector

>>7849479
>Aristotle
>tl
>calling it a "language"
Worse than Coelho.

>>7849647
Damn, that's a fine broad.

>>7849640
France, Germany, Russia, Japan, Argentina.

>>7849659
What about Italy?

>>7849659
lel, maybe in the late 19th century.

Only good contemporary literature are from these countries:

Norway, Italy, Hungary, China.

>>7848680
>tfw she will never electrify your testicles and force you to eat your own feces in order to break you psychologically and make you reveal your country's secret naval bases

why live, bros?

>>7849698
What Italian contemporary lit is good?

>>7849771
eco

>>7849760
>implying you need to break me psychologically to make me do that

>>7849772
Never read him. And then?

>>7849771
Umberto Eco (RIP) and Italo Calvino.

That's basically it.

>>7849788
Ugh. Everyone already knows them and no one in Italy gives a fuck. Sure, they're read but it's not like they're more well regarded than other authors. Eco seems to be regarded as genre, actually.
But I don't know anything about my country's lit.

My brother gifted me Tondelli's Altri Libertini, which should be more lit than those two.

>>7849479
That's his name in Greek you pleb

>>7848906
Salt that that surrealist literature is garbage while its visual art is pretty good, maybe.

>>7849418
you can pick up anyone with anything if you're attractive, confident and interesting

>Paulo Coehlo

The gamer girl of literature

>>7849647
>thinks

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm how the fuck do I use this thing

>>7849522

James Joyce is a despicable person. In reality he is a coward that poses as some kind of saint and guru (and anyone with half a neuron knows what gurus are made with). Some examples of the glorious life achievements of this fellow: when he was young he hit a child with a bicycle and fled the spot with fear; in his youth he was also just a scrawny and shy, a fearful and frightened boy (his surname, Joyce, means rabbit, which is appropriate, since this animal is shy and fragile), but today he loves to tell interviewers about how he was "wild" and "crazy" in this days of youth, and that he was able to fight the demon, sober up and, after long years of toil, changed himself into a much more spiritual and enlightened being. He says he can control the weather and see angels and stuff like that (now, anyone who makes such claims is either psychotic or a charlatan, and Joyce’s eyes look too much like the eyes of a dead-fish to indicate that he actually suffers from some sort of mental illness – what remains is charlatanism). In fact you cannot read an interview with James Joyce without wanting to vomit with his air of superiority and the faker-look. He once had an affair with a woman and got her ass pregnant. After undergoing an abortion, she had a heavy depression. Joyce encouraged her to attempt suicide (hiss reasons were that he through that such mystical and psychoanalytic approach, a kind of shock therapy, could help her). James Joyce (in a biography written about him) appears forging the signature of his own father, plagiarizing a text from Myles Na'Gopaleen (another Irish writer) and giving interviews about a meet with William Shakespeare that never happened. He is, in short, a bad character.

He is that typical character of Irish-catholic morals: that kind of people who talks about god and religion and saints and reading the bible but that are constantly acting like cowards and weak-willed sinners. You know, the 2 things that the suburbs and neighborhoods have in greater quantity in catholic countries are churches and bars: this is the typical contradiction of this kind of culture. People rant about Jesus and Mary and the holy ways that will conduct you to heaven and think that it is a big sin to miss Church, but this same people, after church and work, will go to the bars and drink all their salaries in Guinness, and gossip about others, and don’t pay the bills, and don’t go to school, and lie, and cheat, etc.

It is no wonder that Protestant countries in Europe are richer, wiser and much more organ ized and cultured than Catholic ones.

>>7849989
Look, Coelho made his way through the interwebz, how cute.

>>7849519
>>7849522

he used to be a thelemite so that's where all the mysticism comes from in his early works. he tried some ritual when he was living in NY and got mind fucked by a demon or something like that so he gave up on following thelema.

he was raul seixas' buddy so you can't really expect much to come out of that. both were thelemites so they aspired to become the BEAST themselves.

>see angels and stuff like that
anybody can do that, you just need to practice visualization. doesn't mean it's real.


protestant churches here aside from the baptists are literally shit

I bet most people in this thread didn't even read Ulysses.

>>7850301
I'm on the Cyclops chapter right now and this shit is LIT, get in here senpai

>>7848433
I want this meme to die.

>>7848454
he's ok
he always gets away with lots of shit
i respect that
they wanted to kill him when he was living in mexico

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>>7848630
very dope. thanks friend!

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>>7848630

This poem makes me think of this picture

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>>7848823
Read it in portuguese, of course.

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>>7849659
>Argentina
>Japan

>>7848518
>tfw Stephen King considers The Dark Tower series as his best work.
>tfw he actively recommends Harry Potter

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>>7848624
>fall of pepe
Wew, we took it back ages ago

>>7848571
Do you see /lit/? This is why we need /pol/ tards here. Infinitely way better than some dumb redditor brazilian monkey who thinks Donald Trump, the high IQ multi-millionaire is some kind of "idiot"

>>7853180
We need Trump defenders on a literature board?

>>7849519
For anyone who doesn't know this is pasta

>>7849145
>Best summary of The Alchemist

I couldn't disagree more, as that is really overselling it. 'Young Adult' fiction is actually readily entertaining for children, The Alchemist is simply the worst book I have read in my life and can have only a negative impact on a person's thought process given they don't outright hate it. It really is the closest equivalent to readable cancer.

>>7852987
>tfw he actively recommends Harry Potter

Question, why should children not read Harry Potter?