Can hip-hop have literary merit?

cuck music

Of course it's possible.

>>7705863
no. It has neither literary, musical or artistic merit in any way. I hate the way they keep trying to shove it down our throats. Just like Jazz and Rock back in the day, it represents a further degradation of music as an artform. do yourself a favor and go listen to Bach. that is real music

I think a good deal of Astronautalis's lyrics are pretty well thought out and put together.

>>7705863
I'm open to the possibility, but, as it stands, it doesn't.

I'm sure it could happen, but that album isn't an example of such a thing.

>>7705863
I thought a couple Mos Def songs were a bit poetic. Specifically teh song Respiration which goes like this in his part

The new moon rode high in the crown of the metropolis
Shining, like who on top of this?
People was tussling, arguing and bustling
Gangstas of Gotham hardcore hustling
I'm wrestling with words and ideas
My ears is pricked, seeking what will transmit
The scribes can apply to transcript, yo
This ain't no time where the usual is suitable
Tonight alive, let's describe the inscrutable
The indisputable, we New York the narcotic
Draped in metal and fiber optics
Where mercenaries is paid to trade hot stock tips
For profits, thirsty criminals take pockets
Hard knuckles on the second hands of working class watches
Skyscrapers is colossus, the cost of living is preposterous
Stay alive, you play or die, no options,no Batman and Robin
Can't tell between the cops and the robbers, they both partners, they all heartless
With no conscience, back streets stay darkened
Where unbeliever hearts stay hardened
My eagle talons stay sharpened, like city lights stay throbbing
You either make a way or stay sobbing
The shiny Apple is bruised but sweet and if you choose to eat
You could lose your teeth, many crews retreat
Nightly news repeat, who got shot down and locked down
Spotlight to savages, NASDAQ averages
My narrative rose to explain this existence
Amidst the harbor lights which remain in the distance

[Hook]
So much on my mind that I can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Heard the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathing
Chest heaving, against the flesh of the evening
Sigh before we die like the last train leaving


It's not amazing by any means but there are some nice lines in there.

>>7705863
It's pretty much poetry. Does poetry have literally merit?

>>7705905
>Bach
Fucking disgusting. At least recommend something good like Mendelssohn.

>>7705920
Also this. HTPAB is fucking overrated and mediocre.

>>7705983
If you understood why Mendelssohn is good, you would also appreciate Bach.

>>7705983
>Mendelssohn better than bach
HEY GUYS AM I CONTRARIAN YET???

>>7705988
I can appreciate Bach but using him as example for good music goes bit far. His stuff was "decent" at best and a bad example for classical music, given how limited it is. Even Vivaldi or Corelli got more variety.

>>7706004
Honestly, how can you even put Bach close? Felix is top tier.

>>7706020
Stop embarassing yourself

>>7706020
Have you ever actually looked at a Bach score? you don't even need to be classically trained, all you ahve to do is understand what counterpoint is and it should be obvious how incredible he is. He was almost endlessly inventive and capable, while making much of his music superficially accessible and pretty.

I feel that I'm being strung along here.

>>7705983
Bach is still good, just too large to acknowledge.

Wu Tang Clan has some of the most innovative manipulations of the English language I've heard, so yes, rap/hip hop has literary merit.

>>7705863
very rarely, no your pic is not one of them.

>>7706020
>Mendelssohn
Mendelssohn is technically proefficient but spiritually vacuous. Being a Jew, the true depth of European Art Music, as a tradition based on christianity and volkisch impulses, was forever closed to him.

>>7705924
Very very basic and vanilla execution of similes, metaphor and rhyme.

The fact is when you leave bare the lyrics after stripping away the rest, you get shit poetry. Doesn't mean the song is bad, just means you really need the whole thing.

Theoretically you get some really sophisticated poetry in a rap song, but then why even make it a rap song? Use the other factors that music as a medium allows.

>>7705983
Bach is exceptional, you pleb

>>7706058
Mendlessohn is not 'spiritually vacuous'. Yes his music differs in spirit from the typical western european religious feeling but it's ridiculous to say there's no depth to it. THat's like saying Russian classical music is vacuous because it takes Western forms without western religion.

>>7706072
Russian music is still based on christianity and russians are a Nordic people. Mendlesohn is an usurper

>>7706020
I can appreciate Mendelssohn but using him as example for good music goes bit far. His stuff was "decent" at best and a bad example for classical music, given how limited it is. Even Leopold Mozart (Mozart's father) or Michael Haydn (Haydn's unknown little brother) got more variety.

Am I doing it right? Can I join the tasteless, clueless faggot hipster club already?

>>7706082
Orthodox Christianity, especially in Russia, is not the same religion as Catholicism/Protestantism. Russians are not a Nordic people, they're slavic. More to the point they're the cultural descendants of the Byzantines, and their civilization is distinct from Western Europe.

>>7706020
Didn't Bach create a musical arrangement where the note structure follows the shape of a mobius strip? I would consider that less "limited" than the majority of composers out there.

>>7706058
Wagner go home

>>7706049
I prefer listening to music actually. If you want to fap to scores there is Liszt.

>>7706052
Beethoven is bigger but his work are on another level too. Bach is just mediocrity.

>>7706072
Russian classical music is pretty meh too tbqh.

>>7706092
>not sucking fat German cock
>MUST BE A HIPSTER
Come on, listen to BWV 590 or some shit and calm down.

>>7706112
What's the point if it sounds like 114145151 of his other works?

>>7706115
Wagner got pretty dope piano works though.

>>7706082
>>7706098
Russians are indeed Slavic in origin. They absorbed the Nords you're referring to. They aren't cultural descendants of Byzantium, rather they claimed inheritance, but Byzantium never acknowledged Moscow as the third Rome.

>>7706112
>mobius strip

1:14 is where the magic happens. And this is one piece out of an entire opus envolving many such riddles. The so called Musical Offering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUHQ2ybTejU

The work has riddles even in its name. Regis Iussu Cantio Et Reliqua Canonica Arte Resoluta" (the theme given by the king, with additions, resolved in the canonic style).

Regis
Iussu
Cantio
Et
Reliqua
Canonica
Arte
Resoluta

That spells Ricercar, an old name for fugue.

>>7706154
>rather they claimed inheritance,
Like how Europe claimed Greece and Rome. Like most peoples they have a range of genetic influences, but calling them Nordic is as silly as calling them central Asian.

>>7706177
that's why russia is so underdeveloped, the majority of them are low-breed asiatic cattle, with all the real geniuses descending from the Varangian aristocracy

>>7706168
Christ he's unbelievable.

I love classical music. Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, the list goes on...

>>7706168
Yep, that's the video. Fascinating stuff. I also remember for his last composition he spelled his name out with the notes (Bb, A, C, B (B natural is "H" in German)).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BACH_motif

>>7706204
XD

>>7705863
I think it can. Some hip hop artists like MF Doom are basically poets.

Genre is generally shit though, OP pic related.

>>7705863
>muh urban poetry

It's no better than slam poetry. I feel that way about most lyrics, though.

>>7706216
>for his last composition he spelled his name out with the notes

what an absolute memelord

>>7705863
Everything that uses words as a medium can have literary merit.
It has until now? No. We'll se in the future, maybe, who knows?

>>7705863
>Can niggers...

No.

>>7706186
80% of Russia is predominantly Indo-European in origin, if they're dumb, it's because their government exploited them as serfs for much longer.

>>7706251
that fits my theory. the half-breeds have always served the Rurikid aristocrats, whatever they call themselves Romanovs, Soviets or Whatever. Its the natural order

Submitted for your approval

[Verse 1]
Fifteen years from tonight you have to make a decision
The greatest love of your life
Is gonna call during dinner...
From the home of the girl that he's living with now
And the guilt he'll say is killing him
He's wilted in the middle and he knows how bad he acted
Knows he can't have you back
But the fact is he can't be happy when you're angry
And you're so angry, he says you stayed so mad
And he heard it on the street that
You moved back in with your dad
That you were drinking something awful
And that makes him sad
Then he says it's good to hear your voice again
And that it's hard to ask it, but he's calling with a question
He's been working real hard, he's trying to make a new start
An honest to God fresh beginning
So maybe you could try to finally find it in your heart to forgive him

[Hook]
You've already been here before
You already know where it goes
You chose this, you know it's supposed to be over
You've been here before
You already know where it goes
You chose this, you know it's supposed to be over

[Verse 2]
He hung up the phone, you listened to the dial tone
And you stared at the stove until the beeping started
You read some love letters some threats and some you couldn't tell apart
That you keep under the bed at the apartment
And then you did what he asked you to do you opened your heart up
Right there on a napkin on the carpet and part of it was frostbit
But you've always been a smart kid
Could still distinguish, the blood black as pitch
Valves had gone stiff, veins and scar tissue
Four chambers just a standard issue
But none had room, forgiveness is huge
And you had two full of ice water
One full of salt, one packed with coal
Eager and ready and willing to find fault

[Hook]

[Verse 3]
Then with your heart in your lap
And your head in your hands, suddenly you had a plan
Wrap the mess in newspaper
Headed west on Hennepin
Heavy with a huge favor for a kid that just turned ten
A flat-chested, gap-toothed girl
Was the best that I've been so far
And now I'm too big to forgive him
I need just a moment with me
A moment when I was still little
I used to sing on the roof outside my windowsill
And I came hoping some ghost of me would be here still
And here you are, stick figure and a busted grin
Still ignorant of all the trouble I'mma get us in
Hoping we could trade, just for tonight
Like I could borrow your heart
And I could leave you mine
It's not much for collateral, tattered and battle-scared
But I can promise you solemn
That I will be back for it tomorrow
I only need yours this evening
So I can call an old friend
And I can tell him
That we're finally even
That we're finally even

You chose this, you know it's supposed to be over
I've been here before
And I already know where it goes
You chose this, you know it's supposed to be over

>>7705863
nope,hip-hop is literally shitty poetry with no real meaning or always superficial

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I don't think they are aiming for literary merit

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A lot of extremely butthurt manchildren ITT

If you think lyrics can have literary merit of their own, absolutely. OP's pic includes multiple literary references. Pic related to my post has even more, and even samples fucking Blood Meridian. Obviously references don't speak to the quality of the actual storytelling and wordplay, but if you seriously can't get past being distracted by your knee jerk responses to talking about race that you can't understand that there is a lot of subtle stuff going on in Kendrick's last album, you're shit at analysis anyway.

If you don't think lyrics have literary value because they are meant to be experienced alongside music and are therefore an element of music and not literature, that's an entirely reasonable and respectable position to hold, and I'd probably agree.

If you don't think rap lyrics have literary value because "muh cucks, muh niggers, muh easily triggered reactionary mind", then you're a fucking faggot.

>>7706361
If you dont have a knee jerk reaction to talking about your race. It means you are either a self-hating cuck or a nihilist with no honor

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>>7706371
What's it like to be so anti-intellectual you can't even discuss something as relevant to life as race without becoming guarded?

>you are either a self-hating cuck

There's that word again. Please post some JPEGs explaining how the juice is putting phallic objects in The Force Awakens and it's their fault you're obsessed with black dick

>a nihilist with no honor
>with no honor
>honor

JUST

>>7705863
Yes, but try to get anybody here's heads out of their asses for long enough to actually see.

>>7706425
>>7706397
bet you guise are bernie BLM supporters and use terms like POC, whiteness and cis privilege unironically

>>7706432
Naw m8, I'm must making a point. There are some really good rap lyrics that are pure poetry, but it will never get recognized as such, cause urban theme. Which is associated with the ghetto and ignorance.

>>7706397
>>>blacked.com

>>7706440
DO you have examples of this? I like hiphop to some extent but I haven't really seen this. The very best stuff I've seen is maybe like The Doors quality in terms of poetry. Is there like a Leonard Cohen of hiphop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqzeizVR7F8

>>7706361
There isn't subtlety in hip hop, that's part of the problem. Kendrick and other pseudo-intellectual rappers like billy woods and dalek mimic the pretensions of writers and poets, but they have nothing to back it up with. A literary reference or a forced attempt at symbolism doesn't mean there's any literary skill involved, it means that the writer is attempting a display of literary skill; the actual content and intelligence of said attempt is very much up for debate.

Rap lyrics have extremely low literary value because they're almost always written to accompany music and follow a simple 4/4 rhythm in an improvisational fashion. In rap, language is manipulated to follow rhythm; in poetry, rhythm is manipulated to follow a complex idea or unique and beautiful image. Ambiguity is so common in "literary" hip hop because ambiguity is how a child reacts to difficult art: for him, the confusion is the author's intent, not the ideas beyond it, and if you successfully confuse your audience then you too are an artist.

Even the greatest of singer-songwriters like Bob Dylan or Bert Jansch cannot compete with legitimate modern poets like Eliot or Keats for this reason. They are making music, not writing literature. When you subtract the music, you are missing half of the art; in hip hop, when you subtract the music, you are missing almost all of the art.

>>7706457
I've always liked Mf's style https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpex2Gy9oJY

>>7706251
Haiti also is predominantly Indo-European in origin, given "in-origin" is your shorthand for the the language group spoken. If you want to talk race you will have to cite the biggest experts on race and that is the nazi Germans. They didn't consider Slavs Aryan but had hard slav facts tier proofs on how they were descended from enslaved races; and it isn't much different from what was claimed later by certain Anglo-Liberal thinkers like, for instance, Toynbee. To him it was a culture of slaves inherited from the Byzantine and the Mongolian empires so I can kinda understand why Alexander Blok wrote the "yes we are Scythians, yes we are the Asians" poem. It's basically a "/pol/, go fuck yourself". And early Hip Hop music resulted from a similarily defiant attitude but amongst the liberated serfs across the pond, in America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRhw8bfCpVo
Harlem Renaissance vs the Black Arts Movement is actually exactly the same as the Westernizer vs Eurasianist discourse in the 20th century Russia emigrant community. And pointing out that Hip Hop music, and everything else from the BAM, looks very much like the idea of tribal Africans from the 1920s you're just being mr. fucking obvious.

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>>7706432
>>7706451

You faggots are painfully predictable.

>"If I call you an SJW cuck I win!"


>>7706471
I agree, I said in my post I would agree with the people who say that lyricism does not equal poetry. I wouldn't call Kendrick, Dalek, billy woods, Aesop, etc, pseudointellectual, because they're not claiming to be intellectuals. Sure, some rappers use "meaningful lyrics" as a gimmick, but I don't think any of the above mentioned rappers do. They write lyrics that convey certain images, emotions, and meanings alongside the music. You're absolutely right that they' have nowhere near the depth of good poetry, but they don't need to be, because the lyrics are just one layer of the music.

Asking if rap can be literary is like asking if poetry can be musical because some poets call their work songs and ballads. It's basically a none question. Music is not literature, so pieces of music cannot be literature. Literature is not music, so pieces of literature cannot be music.

fuck off /mu/

we only listen to classical music here. rock/hip hop is a disease

>>7706505
"cuck" is a compliment

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>>7705863
Hip-hop is a subculture that, at its founding, was characterized by rap, turntablism, break-dancing, and graffiti. It's more of a performative music culture than anything else. That said, it could have a literary element but this hasn't quite happened yet.

>>7706397
> it's their fault you're obsessed with black dick
Now that you mention it, it's odd indeed how proud white man talk more about black dicks and getting cucked by niggers than any BBC lover.

>>7705983
Mendelson was greatly inspired by Bach

>>7705915
>>7705920
>>7706064
>>7706221
>>7706227
>>7706354
>>7706304
>>7706371
>>7706425
>>7706457
http://genius.com/albums/Lil-ugly-mane/Oblivion-access

"Slugs are just snails without shells
The perception: evolution fucked them over and failed
But they survive without protection in this jungle they dwell With giants throwing salt on all their people
Can't consider them frail"

this album is pure poetry, if he was ranked as a poet, he would be better than most. "Heartworms. sharpturns. sparsewords.scarsburns" doubt anyone on this board could think of a rhyming scheme similiar to this. http://genius.com/Lil-ugly-mane-collapse-and-appear-lyrics

Freedom's a road that's seldom traveled, watch hell unravel
Right before the eyes of the soldier who fell in battle
The single mother who raised her daughter to bear the sacred water
And not take the hand of every man who make a offer

>>7706471
>>7706606
would like to hear your analysis of Oblivion Acess and how it isn't poetry.

>>7706605
Because Bach was a great composer, this doesn't necessary makes his music great. DFW is a decent writer too but couldn't write a great book if his life depended on it.

much as i hate to partially side with a psychopath, i sort of agree with kanye about whites not being able to critique hip-hop. considering most modern music critics come from wealthy or upper class background by virtue of the extremely low pay, i just don't think most white critics are able to view a black artist's music through the right lens.

sorry if that's a poor explanation.

>>7706624
By the same logic, people who critique literature about "le struggle" can't do it either.

WE
WUZ
KANGZ

>>7706606
>"Heartworms. sharpturns. sparsewords.scarsburns
That is literally just an AB rhyming scheme, how is that supposed to be complex lol

>>7706624
Kanye himself is middle class though, that was part of his whole appeal, he's not some hood guy. I agree that people like the Pitchfork staff sound fucking retarded when they talk about Chief Keef or something though.

>>7706619
Lmao you the type of nigga to raise your hand in your High School drama class and bash Tarantino just to talk about how great Pasolini is.

Go fuck yourself.

>>7706624
>If you've never been on the verge of suicide don't critique Big Daves work.

>>7706681
No, not because of that. If you can't see it then you are just hopeless, I really can't explain it, just re-read it

>>7706691
There is nothing else to explain, there are only 8 fucking syllables. Syllables 1,3,5, and 7 rhyme(or at least have assonance) and 2,4,6, and 8 rhyme.
You can't have more analysis than that on 8 syllables.

>>7705863
July 4th, 1981, candles of a Roman ilk
Unloaded from a chevy truck
Into the home her folks had built
Patio was charcoals and extended senpai in folding chairs
Safely arced around the yard to focus on the smoking flares
Couple cousins, uncles, aunts, mostly grown-ups, couple brats
Baby Ruby's only two
She's too close to the jumping jacks
Mommy scoops her to the house
Buckles up the booster seat
Rolls her to the storm door
Let her long for all the lunacy
Telephone distracting Mom
Ruby wriggles out her strap
Fingers push the plexi-glass
She's off into the sour patch
Past the pyrotechnics undetected and invisible
Woke the sleeping beagle skipping toward the kidney swimming pool
Off into the yawning blue
The splash would mum the rocket-ships
Ruby's lungs were filling by the time her kin were cognizant
Many sprung and sprinted down
All arrive belated but
The beast she had earlier stirred had been alert since waking up
Canine let his gainer fly
Water top commotion grow
Howling guests assumed the cloven hoofs had come to do-si-do
Frenzied and congested deck
Part to let the elders see
Soggy beagle gently dragging Ruby in his yellow teeth
Laid the tiny body in the sun before her Father's feet
When she choked the liquid through her bluish lips he dropped his knee
Helped the air to reconvene
Towel his shaking Ruby off
EMT confirm the save
Everybody say
"Good dog! "

>>7706688
If anybody were crazy enough to say that Tarantino is "great", would it be so wrong to give the person some perspective?

>>7706471
BTW Lil Ugly Mane sampled T.S Elliot in his song Columns so you might want to check that out.

>>7705863
Postcards from the pink bath paint leisure
As a cloaked horse through a stained-glass Saint Peter
Hack faith-healer, cheat death to the very end
Cherry wooden nickels on his specs for the ferrymen
X, o, zodiac a pentagram expo
Pet cemetery in electric fresco
Abaddon threshold flesh-forged in the galley
With undead orcs pulling oars through the algae
Smash cut to a smoke-bombed quarantine
Guards like "all signs correlate with sorcery"
It's more a dormant cell of valor as awoken by the smell of sordid power
And defecting shortly after
Fist bump dry land, brackish, cat nap 15
Back to swiss-cheese the flagship, uh
Blue in the menacing grip of a day for which you're manifestly unfit

Final answer "not to be", "not to be" is right!
Next question - to build winged shoes or autophagy
Silk screen band tees, take apart a vcr, ringer off, canned peas
Cabin fever mi amor
Patiently adhering to the chandelier ta key-in-door
To usher in the understated anarchy of leisureforce
Led a purple tongue and ratty caballeros
Up over the black rainbow into the house of mirrors
To become a thousand zeroes
Echoing a twisted alchemy, freak flags, fluttering to circadian free jazz
Sleep apnea scratching "bring that beat back"
I doze off, clothes on, noise in the feedbag
Shhh.. om nom nom, blinds drawn
Compost thrown to the spine pile, bygones, mangy
Intimately spaced pylons on a plot of inhospitable terrain
Hi mom!

[Hook]

Raise up the bridge, lower the portcullis, rain forks into mutton
No abort button, heart pump assorted color sugar water
Poor lummox, unexplained ailments, and doesn't work well with others
Wet nose on the glass, garibaldi half cookie dough, lock jaw
Don 4 walls like a wooden coat, behold the rotting fruit of excommunication
A ruby tide insubordinate to lunar phases
That maneuver past the beaches to the bosom of the pavement
Now the bow drill smolder in a flooded bit of basement
Grace of misled teen who prefers his scenes with a little Wilhelm scream
The ambush predator edition, skill set of Will Tell Aim and speed over short distance
Part hatter-mad, part erratic habitat, dark matter harnessing his heart attack-ack-ack-ack-ack

Midsummer bit crusher, mid winter bit shifter, no sleep, gold mine, front door circled, proceed, low light, 24 curfews, crows beak, cold night, unmoored virtue, proceed, snow-blind, 24 curfews

>>7706703
He rhymed the the word "heart" with the next word "sharp" and "worms" with turns so the first word rhymes and so does the next word, can you not see it? If you think you can do better, then you make it yourself and post it here ?

>>7706707
Did you write this?

>>7706727
no

>>7706727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPbZJ1h-yg

>>7706168
Does anyone have a starter pack of musical pieces for someone looking to get into classical?

I want to be able to appreciate classical music but I don't know where to start.

>>7706767
ask /mu/ they have a bunch of flow charts

>>7706767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Xm7s9eGxU

>>7706721
That's what I just said anon. and sure
>In her flicker winter shimmers
or
>I see minds be blind, he writes me
That's the same rhyme scene and actually a sentence not random words strung together.

you literally just have to find words with the same two vowel sounds

>>7706786
those "sentences" are abominations and you should be ashamed of yourself, however you have proven the rhyme scheme to be simple and that fanboy to be a fag.

>>7706786
No, it's not the same...I told you, please re-read it. It's not just AB it's the fact he rhymed the first word 'heart with sharp' and then worms and turns whilst being singular words 'heartworms', 'sharpturns'. He did this 4 times. It's not just simple AB rhyming scheme

>>7705863

Sorry Fuckers
I'm at my tittie signing at the Barnes Nobles
You brown-nose but your downloads only show marginal growth
Why do you dress like a lesbian welder?
Only a middle-aged woman looks sexy in elk fur
You get injured at the hipster bar
I hit you with a ninja star and then I speed off in my car
My life is like a day-to-day porn shoot
You'll mayday for more troops when I say "Sorry Fuckers"
See that girl, she's a great lay with her scorched roots
Plus she's got a grade-A horse caboose
That's my lady! I just squeeze her cheeks
While you sit and twitch like a Jesus freak
You're from Hollywood; you get your sphincter bleached
Sit your ass home and eat your quiche
I'm the dude that your girl would be pleased to meet
She'll want to suck me off with those beaver teeth
But I decline the offer. I drive a flying saucer
To perform on neighboring moons
And do the giddy-up with some iffy slut
Who's drinking pick-me-ups out of those Dixie cups
To the young boozer, and the drug user
But the syringe on the baking teaspoon
That means play this it'll spike your blood sugar
I'll have your soul mate tied to the sub woofer

With a litany of pop culture reference points
My tenor voice will make the women all wet and moist
You act gender bent
While I'm wrestling with women in boxers with leopard print
And yes, that's me arching a pouring glass at the tee off
Me getting the boarding pass at the kiosk
Me eating fish with French cream sauce
Be celebrated at the confetti toss
I'm waving from the Project Blowed parade float
Completely nude under my raincoat
While you're in your backpacker entrapments
Battle rapping with a series of gay jokes
You're welcomed to peep game
But when they start riding the jock they seldom deplane
A deceased cock, a pudding geyser
The hung dong's the swung baton of the womanizer
But for my bitches it's a springboard
To a place where dreams are forged
And I'll smack these geeky young twerps
Out of their medium shirts

>>7706793
no he didn't you mong, if you think "I see minds be blind" is the same as "HeartWORMS, SharpTURNS" you are retarded, the first part of the word "heart" rhymes with the next sentence "sharp" and the worms and turns. look at the way he manipulated the words

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OP asks
>Can hip-hop have literary merit?

And we have a whole thread with not one mention of Kool Keith.

>>7706799
Busdriver and Aesop are the only rappers with songs that could stand up to be read.

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>>7706796
<you

>>7706804
I minds blind
see be

they're doing the same rhyme pattern, retard. are you impressed with the fact he's using compound words? retard

>all the shitty rap lyrics posted ITT as some kind of defense of rap music

shit is corny as fuck and a decidedly low-tier artform

making chimp noises over stolen rock samples looped in protools is not art, and kanye west is a talentless narcissist with delusions of grandeur

the only rappers (I struggle to call them artists) who are remotely interesting are things in the balllark of aesop rock but even then it still sounds corny as fuck taken out of context of the music

tldr: rap, rock, and jazz is music for plebs

>>7706688
Are you trying to imply that Tarantino is better than Pasolini?

>>7706815
He rhymed 4 compound words in two different ways....that is some of the best manipulation of the english language...prove me wrong by showing me something else? go listen to your bach pasty faggot

>>7706796
Those aren't fucking words anon. He just stuck real words together
and if you can't see that the sentences I wrote are the same thing you are truly retarded
break them up into 8 syllables each and the odd and even ones rhyme with each other just like your example

>>7706793
They're not supposed to be good I wrote them as fast as possible just so they were coherent

>>7706816
yet you can't write a rap better than these people, these rappers are better than you

>>7706822
i can, even a retard can if he has a good enough vocabulary

by the way there's more impressive slaughterhouse verses than the shit you're fawning over, if you're going to defend garbage at least defend reasonably clever garbage

>>7706817
No, you retard. Im trying to imply that nobody cares.

>>7706829
Look up "NY state of mind" if you can write a rap to that quality I will give you $150.

All you have to do is rhyme about how good you are but in a clever way, go on let's see

>>7705863
Absolutely. All of the following have songs that could easily be considered of "literary merit".

Blue Scholars
Classified
Acid Reign
Sage Francis
Brother Ali
Collective Efforts
Common Market
Poor Righteous Teachers
People Under The Stairs

That's just the first handful off the top of my head. There are countless underground, independent hip hop artists/groups that write fantastic, compelling lyrics.

>>7706819
ok first of all you didn't even know what a compound word was until I just said it, before you were groping around blind saying dumb shit like
>whilst being singular words

really nigger, whilst? i'm fuckin dying

>>7706837
This is legitimately embarrassing.

>>7706837
>I will give you $150
black people lies

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>Rappers are basically the modern day troubadours.
>hurrr is it art?

>>7706847
>>7706849
For you, you claim you can do better but you obviously can't, let's see you do it?

>>7706851
well its arguable
I could tell you troubadours are just stupid, singing clowns

>>7706853
my skin says i'm better
i don't have to say a thing

>>7706861
And you'd just be showing how ignorant you are.

>>7706816

>the only rappers (I struggle to call them artists) who are remotely interesting are things in the balllark of aesop rock

why is every middling little middlebrow an aesop rock fan what is it about him that seems to attract them

>>7706835
You clearly care a lot, you're getting very upset

>>7706849
>>7706847
>>7706842
It's only right that I was born to use mics
And the stuff that I write is even tougher than dykes
I've taken rappers to a new plateau, through rap slow
My rhymin' is a vitamin held without a capsule
The smooth criminal on beat breaks

I got so many rhymes, I don't think I'm too sane
Life is parallel to Hell but I must maintain


let's see you do this? you lack the intelligence to think of this

>>7706868
get back to /pol/ you salty mayo

>>7706879
it's wank

no meme

>>7706058
>as a tradition based on christianity and volkisch impulses
this is a good meme

>>7706082
>russians are a Nordic people
wut

>>7706886
go rob a liquor store, u might meet ur daddy in the joint

>>7706888
It was quite literally based on Christianity. Most of the music until quite late was sacred. Not that I agree with what that guy's saying.

>>7706896
>>7706887
you're mad because a person of colour writes better than you, I get it now

>>7706902
thats pretty much every single anti-rap argument in existence

Hard times, baby daddy grinds to support
His mother and a few other friends privately in her fort
For short stays, ya know? but more aid was needed
Baby is like a year and a half now and speaking
More than I can say about that man with his child
They can't even come face to face and share smiles
Raining pure pain on her life by staying distant
Like she spawned a fucking anti-Christ or a Satan infant
Blatant mentions about family blood won't leave
Love's her deeply, but evil sends it's opposite feed
"old fashioned"
Too ever set in his ways to ever relate
If he could just set it aside, there'd be heaven to pay
Then, weathered and aged time swept him to grave
Love conquers all? shit. I'd say that areas grey

> Deacon the Villain

>>7706896

nice one, killer

you got him

>>7706902
noumad
it's wank because he's just jerking off his ego
maybe it's the best wank in all of africa, but it's still wank

>>7706361
>OP's pic includes multiple literary references.
hmmmmmm?
>>7706371
hahahahaha

>>7706914
tit4tat

>>7706915
It's suppose to be like that. It's a display of his lyrical ability, it's impressive to see him do that. You cannot do it yet you call it "wank".

[Verse 1: Natti]
Tear ducts seem such a useless tool
To a man's feelings forged in the arts of cool
Solidarity's king and the heart's the fool
The jester only in jest can be left to rule
Men of steel ain't allowed to feel
Hardened exteriors aren't allowed to peel
Emotional blows taken aren’t allowed to heal
Head tells the chest it's too proud to kneel
Before any sign or symbol of sentimental
Deep pains displayed 'bout the depth of a thimble
Emotions are a potion meant to poison the temples
Streaks down the cheeks are for the weak and the simple
Society's asylum for the evil that men do
Inside you cry, outside you Hindu
When my nigga died, wet eyes no tissues
Ex-cons and killers finding shoulders to cling to

[Verse 2: Kno]
Tear ducts seem such a waste of flesh
On a body that's eventually defaced by death
Solidarity reigns and curse your breath
Inhale your emotions 'til it hurts your chest
No heart on your sleeve tough guy in-vest
Bank on the sins that you earned in flesh
Eyes are inflamed you get burned for less
Your vanity's a wound that your tears infect
A fool is the food that our fears ingest
So the cool is the fuel that our peers inject
Emotions are a token of the heart's intent
But the streaks on your cheek makes your heart resent
A man made of stone has nothing to say
When he can't keep The Nothing at bay
When my Grandfather died, dry eyes no tissues
But damn I miss you

>>7706929
it's a dude wanking himself off and you like to watch

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>this thread

>>7706874
rap can never go above middlebrow, that's the point

and if you're that triggered by a single mention of aesop rock then choose any of the other middlebrow acts struggling to elevate a shit art form that suburban white kids fawn over, mf doom, sage francis, saul williams, busdriver etc.

>>7706936
it's impressive because of his intelligence, you are a idiot you talk like a british chav as well

>>7706397

>What's it like to be so anti-intellectual you can't even discuss something as relevant to life as race without becoming guarded?

Don't try to reason with these emotionally regressive clowns, /pol/ has claimed too much of this board now. R.I.P real discourse on /lit/.

>>7705983
>a jew
>real music

kill yourself

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>>7706168
>ricer car

Oh shit son

>>7706947
you think i give a fuck what you think about me? you think i give a fuck what you think is smart?
>it's suppose to be that way
learn english

>>7706645
I get banned for this and this guy doesn't? no fair

>>7706491
good post

>>7706948
>discussion about middle class music industry stooges who pretend to be real gangsters and make chimp noises over stolen music samples
>"real discourse"

kill yourself my man

>>7706491
>If you want to talk race you will have to cite the biggest experts on race and that is the nazi Germans

hahaha

>>7706944

you are trying too hard to keep up the cultivated facade of the "intellectual" and you are discounting pathos and experience because of it.

if you can't enjoy both high and low art then you are quite simply a middlebrow bore.

>>7706058
Are you arguing that only christianity produced good art, or music specifically. Are you retarded? Music and Musical theory is an intrinsic part of the human experience for all humans. Christian society were just the most advanced for the times. Yes, it inspired beautiful music but much of the classical music we have does not come from a purely christian base

>>7706983
tbrh its stupid to even consider things in "brows", its just more bullshit terms for people to wank themselves over

>>7706624

If white critics DIDN'T write about hip hop they would be considered racist and exclusionary. You just can't win.

>>7706690
yes

>>7706983
if you're caught up in the distinction of high/middle/low you're caught up in classism, not a search for quality.

>>7706991

well yes it's just community shorthand more than anything. i don't put any amount of stock into the term in real life.

>>7706995
>If white critics DIDN'T write about hip hop they would be considered racist and exclusionary.

By other Whites. Blacks dont give a fuck

>>7706991
>wank themselves

you mean like rap, 99% of which is empty, corny-as-fuck boasting?

i really hope you're black because some little white kid defending listening to some fake hoodrat talk about how great he is is pathetic as fuck

your white ancestors roll in their graves

>>7706624
If it keeps people from listening to these degenerate and simple tunes then it is okay by me.

>>7707011
>99% of which is empty, corny-as-fuck boasting?
this is not true...hip-hop is the most spiritual, the most lyrical and the most political genre of music ever...

>>7707011
You have to be pretty retarded to think empty boasting is what makes up all of rap. Infact it means you know nothing about it.

You'd be the same kind of retard who thinks metal is all screeches and growls.

>>7706991
Things can easily be differentiated by entry level/ lowbrow from high art and it is obvious. The big head comes from liking something that is more difficult to understand and comprehend.

>>7707011
>implying there's anything wrong with braggadocio and having a cheeky ego wank every now and then

>>7707002

haha. the opposite. i value pathos first and foremost.

nice try though you elitist asshat.

>>7707011
>muh ancestor worship

lol and you call others primitive

>>7706991
>there is no such thing as high and low art

the average rapfaggot, everyone

https://rjbaldwin.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/i-can-tell-you-lots-about-high-art-vs-low-art-if-you-have-the-time-go-get-a-glass-of-red-for-this/

>>7707036
Even the title is fucking cringe.

>>7706901
Sorry, I saw the ambiguity after I posted it. I'm not saying that phrase is a meme in that it is some factoid repeated but with no truth, but that I saw a very similar phrase in the Linklater thread, and the meme of saying something like 'is without art, for it has no relation to Christian or Volkisch tradition' or w/e is great, regardless of its truth. Could care less. Strikes me as hilarious.

>>7707011
>>7707033

Rekt.

>>7706929
it's purely masturbatory. so's that wu tang clan video up there. it has absolutely no worth.

>>7707052
What kind of lyrics are you impressed by?

>>7707036

>Go get a glass of red for this..

I can't even bring myself to read this. It will trigger me more than a fattie womyn reading Jezebel.

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>>7707022
>The most spiritual, the most political genre of music
>mfw
I'm calling this bait. In fact, this is a bait thread probably.

How many of you ITT consider yourselves poets

Don't know if anyone caught this, but 'Things Fall Apart' by Cinua Achebe (as well as yams) is referenced in the song King Kunta.

>>7706979
Not very articulate, are we?

>>7707022

>the most spiritual
LOL no.
>the most political
honestly a case could be made for this though.

>>7705863
I thought TPaB was good with a significant message and good lyrics, but as a genre hip-hop fails to deliver any real merit 90% of the time.

>>7707066
The subway stays packed like a multi-cultural slave ship
It's rush hour, 2:30 to 8, non stoppin'
And people coming home after corporate share croppin
And fuck flossin, mothers are trying to feed children
But gentrification is kicking them out of their building
A generation of babies born without health care
Families homeless, thrown the fuck off of the welfare
>>7707072
fuck off nazi
>>7707076
j dilla

>>7707080
Sounds like his technique is immortal.

>>7707083
Haha, nice one

>>7707078
I thought Tpab and Gkmc were terrible albums, and I actually used to like Kendrick Lamar. My main problem is when he sings or does his nasally voice rap or his super gruff voice. The beats were not interesting to me either but I will concede they were well put together.

Mostly though just his voice, I really do not understand how people can bear to listen to it. Maybe this is how people feel about Dylan.

>>7707080

>j dilla

j dilla is great and all but if you're seriously trying to make a case for rap music being the most spiritual form of music ever i'm just going to jump ship on this thread because you're a fucking idiot.

>>7707043
>>7707064
>ignoring actual history of art because of some faggot reddit article title

i wouldn't need to link you to articles if you actually knew anything about art history

>>7707092

>rap music
meant hip-hop

>>7707094
>reading an article if the author can't even manage to write a title

>>7707080
>fuck off nazi
And you're talking to yourself.

>>7707092
it is the most spiritual form of music, hip hop is so revolutionary, you need to listen more to understand. rather listen to a kanye beat then ave maria

>>7707094

lol you linked an article with
>Go get a glass of red for this..
in the title

lol

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>>7707080
That's far too heavy handed and doesn't even sound poetic. It's also focused on a non issue. Gentrification is a non issue.

Rats begin to chew the sheets. Now there's murmuring and ingratitude. My hand is steady as a rock. A sound like morning doves reaches my ears. Nobody is a friend of ours. The nation's heartland skips a beat as our hands shield spinning globe from the flamethrowers of a mob. We must press on.

>>7707109
>rather listen to [a looped sample stolen from other artists more talented than himself and then peppered with inane kindergarten rhymes and then passed off as kanye's own work] then(sic) ave maria

/lit/ is dead

>>7707118
keep criticizing things you can't do....you have self-hate...you couldn't never think of this.
>>7707119
thanks for your grandpa interpretation of sampling, i can tell you know A LOT about music.

>>7707118
>Gentrification is a non issue.
Kinda. It has mixed results.

>>7707119
sampling in hiphop's usually not that inventive, but go listen to some plunderphonics. it's not an inherently terrible thing, you silly goose. thirty old debate, though. getting old.

>>7707137
hip-hop is one of the most revolutionary genres ever...sampling is genius...go listen to dj shadow endtroducing...j dilla had a better ear than mozart...he was a genius. people like you are disgusting

Both sides arguing their points are equally passionate and won't give up their positions. The difference is that the people who love hip-hop are mongoloids and the people who despise it are intellectuals.

>>7707151
people who despise it are wannabe intellectuals

>>7707151
yet harvard professors call nas a genius, you are the pseudo here

>>7707151
>despising any form of art
>intellectual
Ahh to be 14 again!

>>7707119

>/lit/ is dead

It is dead because this new wave of /lit/ poster prefers to rage and hate than deconstruct and understand. The /pol/ mindset is the worst thing to ever happen to this site. It changed it completely. Now instead of being apolitical it's hyperpolitical in every single fucking thread.

>>7707150
>j dilla had a better ear than mozart
At this point I no longer believe you're being sincere and I actually like all the artists you've mentioned so far.

>>7706879
I wish I found this impressive. You should stop posting examples, it'd lead to more compelling argument.

>>7707032
no, you value the art of the class you belong to - rap and the underclass. Primarily identified by an emphasis within the class on being "real" which translates to white english as "being honest to how you feel" or maybe "speaking from the heart". The lowerclass tends more to pedestalize pathos, as you're calling it (imperfect aping of high-class speech is a classic tell of low-class people and is indicative of the lower-classes sense of inferiority about their own culture) whereas higher classes tend more to pedestalize education and

>>7707163
I do think this though. I'm surrounded by virtually 0 hip-hop where I live...I listen to all musical genres, classical included. I genuinely think this. You obviously know quite a bit about music yourself as evident by your mentioning of plunderphonics. Are you a musician yourself?
>>7707164
Value is not dependent entirely on feelings, you may dislike it but it's still incredible regardless of whether it clicks with your subjective character...perhaps you should take up the challenge I offered to write better. I know you won't because I'm clearly winning here...

>>7707162
>/pol/ mindset
No, it's hip hop and John Green shite posters.

why do you always have to be so mean to each other

>>7707168
and?

>>7707168

one inchoate diarrhea shit of presupposition and confirmation bias. this reads like the jumbled footnotes to the actual post you were going to make.

walk it off you excitable dweeb.

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>>7705863
Hey Yo doctor, here's another proper track
and it's phat, watch the sniper, time to pay the piper
and let that real shit provoke, see you's a wanna be 'loc
and you'll get smoked and I hope that your fans understand
when you talk about spraying me, the same records that you makin' is paying me
Motherfuck Dre
Motherfuck Snoop
Motherfuck Death Row
Yo, and here comes my left blow
'cause I'm the E-A-Z-Y-E, and this is the season
to let the Real motherfucking G's in, you like a kid
you found a pup and now your dapper,
but tell me where the fuck you found an anorexic rapper
talking 'bout who you go squabble with and who you shoot
you're only 60 pounds when you're wet and wearing boots
damn E, they tried to fade you on Dre Day
But Dre Day only met Eazy's pay day
all of a sudden Dr. Dre is a G thing,
but on his old album cover he was a she thing
so nigga please, nigga please don't step to these motherfuckin' real G's

Now every day it's a new rapper, claiming to be dapper then the Dresta,
smoother then a bitch but portray the role of gangster,
ain't broke a law in your life, yet every time you rap
you rap about the guns and knives, just take a good look
at the Nigga, and you'll capture the fact,
that the bastard is simply just an actor,
who mastered the bang and the slang and the Mental,
of niggas in Compton, Watts, and South Central
never ever once have you ran with the turf,
yet in every verse you claim you used to do the dirt,
but tell me who's a witness to your fucking work,
so you never had no business,
so save the drama jerk,
niggas straight kill me knowing that they pranksters,
this is going out to your studio gangsters,
see I did dirt, put in work, and many niggas can vouch that,
so since I got stripes I got the right to rap about that,
but niggas like you
I gotta hate you, 'cause I'm just tired of Suburbian Niggas
talking about they coming from projects
knowing you ain't seen the parts of the streets G
think you trying bang around the time of the peace treaty
wearing khakis and you mob while you rhyme, little fag tried to sag,
but you're flooding at the same time,
and you set don't accept you, so you scared to kick it with your homies
'cause you know they don't respect you,
So nigga please check nuts before you step to these, motherfucking real G's

Well, it the Knocc Out, definition original baby gangster
approach me like you hard, motherfucker I'm gonna bank you
shank you, with my fucking shank, if I have to
Dr. Dre an Snoop Doggy Dogg are fucking actors
pranksters, studio gangsters, busters
but this time you're dealing with some real motherfuckers
G's, nigga please, don't try to step
because if you do, and I pill cap is all that would be left see,
young niggas like me will break you off something,
claiming my city, but Dre you ain't from Compton
Niggas like you all is what I call wannabe's
it ain't shit compared to real motherfuckin' G's

>>7707179
That was actually my first post, I'm not the other anon. I'm not a musician, I've studied some music theory though.

I...I simply can't understand why anyone who understood and loved both Mozart and Dilla would think the latter was better than the former. It seems absurd bordering on satire to me. I can imagine an argument being made from the perspective of Dilla and other producers like him's abilities to cut together samples with very varied textures and melodies, harmonies rhythms, etc. I certainly find it very impressive and some of it is downright beautiful.

But if we take the opposite perspective, on the ability to craft cadences, and develop themes, Mozart was so gifted he was essentially like an alien compared to every other musician who has ever composed Western art music. His music reaches a level of balance and depth I have never heard in anything else, and struggle to even find in another medium of art.

>>7707168
whups silly me

education and intelligence.

aesop rock is popular with middle class white kids because his sound is friendly to them and he writes in terms they can understand.

suburban kids will not understand crack dealer slang

artists who write in those terms will not reach that audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjiMRphYuo

>>7707199
lol i know it's considered rude to talk about class in america but please contain yourself i'm just talking about reality

>>7707213

i said walk it off not continue to feel feelings.

This thread would've been over with one Biggie song

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>that Lot reference in TLOP

>>7707207
I don't listen to music like most people do. I'm not confined to genre in any sense. I just love a particular sound and hip-hop seems to do that at the highest. Why do you think Mozart is better? J Dilla beats sound so much better and their is a level of skill involved in his production. Explain in detail please. I honestly think if Mozart was alive and young, he would be a hip-hop producer

>>7707195
education and intelligence.

that's why the fanboy kept on harping on how rhyming in rap is a demonstration of intelligence, because he understands his mental stereotype that tells him white people greatly value intelligence.

if he was actually smart he would realize the better part of the intelligence in rap is social intelligence, the intelligence of building an image around yourself.

I like rap but I argued against him all over this thread cos i could smell his stupidity

>>7707229
>>7707207
also, I know this looks like a troll post but it isn't...some of my favourite songs are classical songs too

>>7707159
Harvard literature professors? Whom?

>>7707219
tough guy

>>7707168
This is more or less correct, if very incomplete. The less powerful spend most of their 'intellectual time' rationalizing the reasons they are less powerful in such a way that they come out on top of those who rule over them in the new system they've created.

The relationship between why middle class white liberals like hiphop made by the black underclass is more complex than that though. On the one hand they identify with the fact that these people have no power in society, but they also get to exercise their escapist desire for power through identifying with the 'successes' of this underclass, this collusion creates a kind of way for them to win somehow based on their middle class liberal perspective(ie power is bad because i don't have it) while also getting to win in a situation that they can't be wrong in(they see black people, especially the hyper-masculine rapper, as being so alien that they can't ever imagine them being powerful(a class that they associate with the elite white europeans)). It's a tenuous set-up to be sure but these peoples' entire psychologies are massive shitstorms.

Really though the reasons are more complicated than just that, involving not least that rappers make very catchy music.

>>7707229
>Why do you think Mozart is better?

>on the ability to craft cadences, and develop themes, Mozart was so gifted he was essentially like an alien compared to every other musician who has ever composed Western art music. His music reaches a level of balance and depth I have never heard in anything else, and struggle to even find in another medium of art.

are you acting stupid on purpose

>>7707243
on the ability to craft cadences, and develop themes,J dilla was so gifted he was essentially like an alien compared to every other musician who has ever composed music. His music reaches a level of balance and depth I have never heard in anything else, and struggle to even find in another medium of art.


I can do it too, idiot

Yes.

I see a woman tighten grip on her purse. can’t be offended. she doesnt
Know my intentions. she imagines the worse. around here. the
Conditions severe. around here. you tightrope between detachment
And fear. between the shattered fragments of existence that collapse
And appear. never changes. just exacerbates depression deeper year
And year. pain weaving in. pain weaving out. heartworms. sharpturns
Sparsewords. scarsburns. i spent a long time dying. dont wake me up
Yet. public executions. you’ll never see me upset. forcefed myself with
Blow but now i settle for sedatives. no longer in the street. i belong in
The crevices. positively negative. popular ive never been. hard to be a
Person when you lack the metal requistes. emotionally deficit
Consumed with all the wretchedness. not optimist or pessimist. my
Politics are in exodus. spouting countless fountains out while drowning
In the brine. my lifes the foulest algorithm science can't define. they
Trap you in these systems that are phallic in design. because they fuck
You in the mind. boy. they fuck you all the time. i fell apart and took
My mind with me. being strung up at the ligaments with cultural
Derivatives. i fell apart and took my mind with me. pronounced dead
By a nemesis. a doubt with a benefit. i fell apart and took my mind with
Me. just a cluster of atoms thrust deep in a chasm. i feel apart and now
Your mind is with me. smoke in your eyes. the worlds a joke in disguise

>>7707243
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jan/27/j-dilla-suite-ma-dukes

>>7707234
>>7707229
It's honestly kind of hard to explain succinctly because it's theory based. The best way I can quickly summarize it is that you're listening to different streams of sound, all individually beautiful, but their interactions with each other create even more beautiful merging connections, and even those merged bits themselves then interact with other isolated or merged bits. It's this deeply layered, transcendent, endlessly revisitable connection-function of different emotion and perception and thought.

Also there couldn't be a Mozart today, he was a product of his time and whatever strange genius he was given for whatever reason.

>>7707254
already linked this

>>7707258
notice how they're not calling mozart the j-dilla of classical music

>>7707260
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhCmyUUD1c4 this sounds 10x better than anything Mozart made....don't deny it... Mozart wasn't even that much of a genius

>>7707260
you're obviously a smart guy and know a lot about music...hope to see you make something good one day...nice talking to you i'm going out off this thread

>>7707189
Mocking people who unironically praise chimp music as genius above the level of Mozart (on a fucking literature board of all things) is the only way to keep the plebs out.

/lit/ is garbage but it's a significantly less smelly type of garbage than say /tv/ or /mu/ solely because of its elitist character.

>>7707268
with that post you ruined any chance of ever having any credibility anywhere

>>7707281
why is your opinion better than mine? i'm confident i know more than you about music

>>7707268
I find it very hard to believe you're not fucking with me but just in case you aren't, it's a nice beat, it's even very nice, it just isn't remotely close to what music can create.
>>7707279
Well alright have a good one then

>>7707297
you're not proving anything...i'm not going away with a changed opinion, you literally just say statements without evidence...

>>7707287
you were also confident you were leaving this thread, but look at you now

>>7707305
We aren't in a science seminar my friend, there is no evidence here. There are philosophies of aesthetic worth, and their applications to different musical forms.

>>7707317
you have no understanding of the humanities if you think this, honestly

>>7707330
If you want to argue about what the word evidence means then maybe. When discussing art there are quite literally only philosophical theories describing what it should be, and how they apply to a given work.

Anything else is not about art, it is about how art relates to some other topic, commonly social mores or whatever.

>>7707251
you're such a fucking faggot

you should really just leave this thread

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>>7707330
someone didn't pay attention during the post-modernism lecture

Hip hop is 95% talentless black people letting whitey indulge in a little bit of slumming-from-a-distance, which makes a few of them famous and wealthy (thanks to white distributors and agents who make almost all the actual money), and thus provides black culture, which is status-obsessed and juvenile, with a few celebrity paragons to worship for all the wrong reasons. Three morons get famous for singing about murdering people and basically giving up on life, and all the rest of them try to release mix tapes like retards.

It's like how basketball is "the only escape from the ghetto available to blacks" even though picking up a fucking math textbook once a week is enough to get you into Harvard with affirmative action these days.

The other 5% may occasionally have some kind of spark of legitimate talent but it's actually smothered in the same shit that kills the rest of them. The idea that it's some kind of DEEP UNIQUE INSIGHT INTO AUTHENTIC GRITTY GHETTO STREET CULTURE AND THE SUFFERING AND ANGUISH OF THE BLACK MAN EXPRESSED WITH NO HOLDS BARRED DUHUIHGFLASGHLAS is a stupid fucking meme with origins easily traced to a few wank-off academics in the 90s. Surprise: Masters of allusive language might have become authors who ACTUALLY express their culture's soul and motivate their people to positive action, instead of wasting it on being the technically most proficient singer of "I saw some guy got shot, it was bad :( I should shoot people too :/ Damn"

It's like asking if 200 years of gypsy folk poetry that all basically amounts to
>I steals to live
>I steals to eat
>I wraps plastic bags
>around me feet
has literary merit or ~authentically expresses the lived gypsy culture~. Sure. Why not. Would have been better if even one of them actually became a plausible intellectual and upright community leader instead.

>>7707351
/thread

>>7707351

>who ACTUALLY express their culture's soul and motivate their people to positive action

The amount of cultural bias here is staggering. Do you really think that all other cultures in the world operate in this way? They need authors or they have nothing?

>>7707351
t bh you can easily say most music is just white people expressing banal shit like breakups, depression, and wanting to party

everyone in this thread is autistic to be honest

>>7707375
prerequisite for this site tbqh

>>7707380
tru

>>7707375

Just the ones going on elitist rants. They seem like the kind of boring mopes who get annoyed whenever they see people having fun with music that isn't Intellectually Approved.

>>7707371
>They need authors or they have nothing?
No but they do have an inferior culture

>>7705863
no its dumb and smells like dodo

>>7707385
Are we really going to pretend white culture is any better

you can honestly make the argument that the average white male is a mass shooting waiting to happen.

OP here. I'm sorry.

>>7707385

Go back to googling phrenology articles I don't feel like talking to a spectrum warrior right now.

>>7707384
they're all pretty r/lewronggeneration tier tbqh

>>7707397
it should be noted that modern racism usually bases itself of genetic studies of certain haplotype distributions, not phrenology.

>>7705863
Nope.
>>7706707
>>7706718
>>7706691
DUDE THE WORDS ARE SO LE RANDOM ITS SO DEEP
>>7706780
Bad music isn't a 'starter-pack'
>>7706822
THIS PROSTITUTE SHOOTS HEROIN MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN YOU; SHE IS AN OBJECTIVELY BETTER PERSON THAN YOU AND CAN PROBABLY DO SOMETHING ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO HER EXPERTISE BETTER THAN YOU
>>7706837
DO THIS THING THAT WAS LIKELY WRITTEN OVER A COURSE OF A YEAR OR TWO IN FIVE MINUTES OR YOU ARE WRONG
>>7706983
YOU ARE BORING IF YOU DO NOT ENJOY MY SHIT
YOU MUST ENJOY MY SHIT AND ALL OTHER PEOPLE'S SHIT OR YOU ARE BORING AND STUFFY

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa--you people are retarded!

>>7707390
>ignoring most murders/violent crimes are committed by blacks/hispanics

>>7707404

Point noted, spectrum friend.

>>7707406
When they commit crimes its usually against a single individual they are involved with

Whites have this compulsion to straight up massacre a whole city block if they can get away with it

>>7707405

>another underage who gets too excited when he shitposts

it's fun, isn't it?

>>7707408
I'm just saying if you think racism is a Very Bad Thing, you should learn what your enemies are saying these days.

>>7707405
STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE

>>7707390
Yes lad, it's all black vs white. Good fucking goy.

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>>7707390

Half of all homicides are committed by african americans, even though they make up only 13% of the population in the United States. What's more, most of these homicides are committed by young men, which means that 3-4% of the population is committing 40-50% of the murders.

Black men are way more likely to be murderers than white men. By your logic we should all be terrified of Koreans because of that one guy who set the high score.

>>7707390
>you can honestly make the argument that the average white male is a mass shooting waiting to happen.
You sure could, but you wouldn't be correct.

>>7707426
>anime

>>7707426
Explain why there was some white kid going on a shooting spree pretty much every week last year and the one before.

At least blacks know they're fucked up, whites just keep their heads in the clouds.

>>7707410
It's because of the Jewish media alienating them in their own countries friend. Also what are Muslims? The only reason there are few black spree or serial killers is because they can't aim/plan and get caught immediately. They aren't even good at killing people ffs.

>>7707080
PEOPLE ARE POOR
THAT MEANS IM SUPER DEEP AND INTELLECTUAL AND SPIRITUAL
>>7707159
The average professor is a moron, including the one in mention that you so-wisely did not source.
>>7707161
Pop music isn't art.
>>7707229
>it le sounds better
>>7707234
>songs
This is how I know you're either totally uneducated, or a troll.

>>7707420

No.

I think your level of spectrum is a Very Bad Thing.

>>7707417
>underage
28
>>7707424
The converse is precisely what you are employing, though.

>>7707434
There are actually many more black serial killers per capita in America at least
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Serial%20Killer%20Statistics.pdf

>>7707436
I SHIT POST ON AN ANIME BOARD
THAT MEANS IM SUPER DEEP AND INTELLECTUAL AND SPIRITUAL

>>7707433
>implying people care about blacks killing each other

>>7707443

>28

...you still act like a haet machine teenager at 28?

yikes.

>>7707433
>Elliot Rodgers
>Oregon guy
"""" White""""
Spot the Argentine.

>>7707443
>28
>still posts on 4chan
HAHAHAHAHA

>>7707433

What difference does it make? White men kill fewer people overall. White people are also far more likely to be a victim of interracial crime than black people. Black people also commit half of all violent crimes in general, including rape, armed robbery and assault.

The butchers of America are black men.

>>7706606
Do you honestly believe that any of that is good, or are you trolling?

>>7707438
What are you saying then it isn't really clear. If you're saying racism is a good thing, you have a lot of explaining to do.

>>7707399
possibly, but being 'wrong generation' for the 1700's is better than the 1970's.

>>7707443
>The converse is precisely what you are employing, though.
no u

>>7707431
>anime website

>>7707227
thats right everyone. the new KANYE WEST album has a biblical reference

>>7707459
Whites are the butchers of the world.

>>7707384
>Just the ones going on elitist rants.
please point out these people

>>7707119
I bet you read books that have "stolen" from the Greeks.

If you listen to music made after 1920 you don't deserve to post on this board.

>>7707476
Whites also invented pretty much everything you use on a daily basis

>>7707486
not streetlights

>>7707486
so what? that doesn't make the objects white themselves.

if you listen to music made after the 1700s you don't deserve to post on this board.

>>7707446
I never made this claim, you however did.
>>7707454
>>7707458
oh no how dare he [does thing i dislike]! he must be [other thing i dislike]!

what a bunch of petulant whiny hipsters

>>7707494
you probably didn't even major in STEM

>>7707503
Actually I did.

>>7707490
>white person wears dreadlocks
>"omg stop stealing our black culture, this belongs to us, white devil!"
>black person uses white invention
>"lol who cares, that doesnt make these objects white xD"

>>7707494

don't take it personal you sad sack moot sold 4chan and you're still doing the haet machine shtick at 28. the party has come and gone. calm down.

I don't know about all that ^, but I enjoy hip-hop and it means a lot to me!

>>7707476
Yes. Whites are cruel. It's good that we have so many Non-White Charities and philosophers to help bring back the equilibrium.

>>7707504
biology, computer science, and engineering don't count

>>7707511
The bulk of Oriental philosophy outclasses Western philosophy, so you're not too far off..

>>7707485
>1920
What? After Leonin, Anonymous IV and two melodies at once, everything went to shite.

>>7707436
don't glorify the term 'art' bud. it's almost fundamentally meaningless. go for 'high art' or something.

>>7707505
what is false equivalence for $200

>>7707456
they might as well be. i mean, not to the bones racially, but culturally, and psychological behavior's almost entirely based off culture.

>>7707518
how exactly did you come to this conclusion? Did you learn the roughly 200 relevant languages and read the entire history of their development?

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>>7707518
>The bulk of Oriental philosophy outclasses Western philosophy by far
You're right! Screw Morals and Relativity! Buddhism and Daoism all the way!!!

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>tfw all these white post-meta hipsters always coming out of the woodwork to claim they "GET" black culture and that rap is (ironically) rad! but also deep..

Is there anything fucking faggier? It makes me cringe every time.

>>7707511

>we don't want you talking about imperialism or colonialism anymore, you have some charity organizations to balance it out

well then i guess that's that.

>>7707505
who said the thing about dreadlocks?

>>7707524
So, every good thing that a NonWhite has done in the West is also due to Western Culture? Feels good to civilize people.

>>7707476

>Mao
>Pol Pot
>Rwanda
>Congo
>ISIS
>Duvalier
>Amin
>El Salvador
>Timor
>Burundi
>Algeria
>Iraq/Iran
>Rape of Bangladesh

Also name a charity or humanitarian initiative that isn't run by white people. But this is all beside the point because we're talking about murder in the United States.

>>7707523
what is white guilt for $500 please alequisha

>>7707517
>the E in STEM doesn't count
You're a bit of a retard, my man

>>7707533
who said anything about irony, why can't i just like a song you fucking autist

>>7707535
just google cultural appropriation

>>7707511
Whites are only 15% of the world's people, and another 50% of the world are white people's intellectual equals. Equilibrium is going to be regained regardless of maudlin charities or reclusive, impractical philosophers.

>>7707533

Only women and cowards cringe.

Faggot.

>>7707534
You realize that Charities have existed during the colonialization? You know that Norwegians and other Protestants set up Churches and charities to help the South Africans? Of course, you didn't.

>>7707536
If they do it in the West isn't that intrinsically Western? Especially if they're brought up in it?

>>7707541
engineers are the biggest retards in STEM senpai

>>7707538
all those are caused by white/western culture

>>7707548

>he thinks any of these piecemeal offerings balances it out

>>7707543
so you don't think cultures should take from others? what is your point?

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls

>>7707541
engineers are trained monkeys

>>7706816
>Saying any kind of music is superior to another.

oh boy, guys I think I found someone with a bigger ego than Kanye.

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>>7707553

>implying

lol this is hopeless. Even when some darky chops up his neighbor it's still magically the white man's fault! This is worse than what people say about the Jews.

>>7707517
biology counts. i'll give you the other two.

>>7707556
wow white people get it together

>>7707556
>https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls

>2014

ok grandpa

>>7707561
maybe because the black man is culturally white

>>7707555
This the complete opposite of what I think. This is what the modern leftist thinks.
I'm just saying that non-whites shouldn't constantly shit on whites, seeing how much they have whites to thank for.

>>7707568

>ok grandpa

You could've spun that better if you tried.

>>7707551
Exactly. Yes. So every good thing done by a Nonwhite in the West is due to the West. Therefore, I could make the comparison of Islamic Militants in the Middle East vs. Non-violent Ones in the West. Western Culture must be very civilizing and caring.

>>7707574
who cares about some incomplete table

>>7707503
I majored in chemical engineering and minored in physics and pure mathematics.

A mistake, in retrospect.
>>7707507
>haet
No?

>>7707571
More often than not its whites shitting on non-whites, as evidenced by this thread.

>>7707578
>autist spotted

>>7707571
>you broke my legs but thank you for giving me a wheelchair

>>7707571
but if cultures borrow from one another then why are they still the property of white people because they invented them

>>7707568
the crime report for 2015 hasn't been finalized yet faggot

just read it jeez

>>7707565
nice shitpost