Passage out of Hillary Clinton's new book

Send it to Žižek

>>10017621
Is it really? I wouldn't put it past her.

>>10017621
Jesus Christ

IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A TWO SCOOPS MANUAL

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>>10017636
It's true. Fucking hell.

>>10017621
>sow mistrust toward exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide public policy based on evidence
Ha! I guess it's the nature of mankind for sociopaths be this hypocritical and deceitful, and idiots to swallow up their lies. Right after defining authoritarianism, you get this extraordinarily authoritarian sentence.

>>10017621
lmao that's funny

Has there ever in human history been a wealthy elite class as out-of-touch with reality as modern day elites?

>>10017690
Ask Marie-Antoinette

>>10017712
I think our current crop puts her and her ilk to shame.

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>>10017712
Hate to be the one to break the bad news...

>>10017719
How so ? There have always been people with a crazy amount of power and people with nothing at all.

>>10017621
Jesus fucking Christ. This cannot be real. Any reactions by the mainstream to this yet?

>>10017712
>>10017719
Fake news. My girl Marie Antoinette did nothing wrong. Literally a fake quote.

Nothing triggers me more than when they roll out an ''expert'' to tell people how it all is.
Surprisingly they tend to agree with the leaders of the country 99% of the time

>MUH 1984

When will people stop memeing this book over and over and over by using it in every political analogy?

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>>10017883
>Any reactions by the mainstream to this yet?

It's divided. The usual shill outlets like The Guardian put it in their headlines and don't think it's worth questioning, but articles like this one are higher ranked on Google than The Guardian's.

>>10017954
Bruh she literally said 1984 is propaganda to make us mistrust our leaders. This is kind of important.

>>10017954
This. Every retarded American libtard and especially conservacucks keep using this as an example for something. They've probably never read it or a book at fucking all in the first place.

>>10017995
>They've probably never read it or a book at fucking all in the first place.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2009/mar/05/uk-reading-habits-1984
>George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four comes top in a poll of the UK's guilty reading secrets. Asked if they had ever claimed to read a book when they had not, 65% of respondents said yes and 42% said they had falsely claimed to have read Orwell's classic in order to impress. This is followed by Tolstoy's War and Peace (31%), James Joyce's Ulysses (25%) and the Bible (24%).

>>10017958
What a misleading title to an already misleading interpretation of 1984

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>>10018002

>>10017712
>>10017883
Marie Antoinette even had a farmhouse retreat built so she could escape palace life and feel like a peasant. The poor girl really didn't do anything wrong, she was thrust into a situation that was extremely difficult in every way with zero life experience or knowledge on how to cope. Not to mention that her personal life was utterly shit.

>Her last words were "Pardon me, sir, I meant not to do it", to Henri Sanson the executioner, whose foot she had accidentally stepped on after climbing to the scaffold.
I just want to hug poor Marie Antoinette.

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>>10018022
Calm down, Burke.

>It is now 16 or 17 years since I saw the Queen of France… at Versailles; and surely never lighted on this orb, which she hardly seemed to touch, a more delightful vision… little did I dream that I should have lived to see such disasters fallen upon her in a nation of gallant men, in a nation of men of honour and cavaliers. I thought 10,000 swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever

>>10018028
Well, he wasn't wrong.

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Orwell would have voted for Trump.

>>10017621
>The goal [of authoritarianism] is [...] to sow mistrust toward [...] our leaders
HMMMMMM

>>10018028
>the glory of Europe is extinguished forever

[laughs in Napoleon]

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>>10018045
>if you're not a Liberal, you have to be a Conservative

Will someone teach these Yanks some political philosophy?

>>10017621
Ahahahahahahha AHahahahahahahah its fucking true hahahahahah im fucking dyin ghere

we dodged a huge fucking suicide bomb when she lost

>>10017621
>call your enemies out for your misdeeds

>>10017621
Can't blame her for using a popular trope. She's writing a book for plebs after all.

>>10018045
Orwell was a Socialist.

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>>10018045

>>10017621
It's kind of funny because the """authoritarian false reality""" she claims Trump is trying to force onto the American people is still a thousand times better than the actual reality we would have gotten with her.

>>10018045
He would have voted for Bernie

>>10018346
that's implying Trump isn't

>>10017621
> the moral of a book about government-sanctioned brainwashing is that you should trust the leaders of your government
Wow.

>>10018385
Well no seeing as Trump hasn't made America Venezuela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3BOd8vlRkg

>>10018394
Not yet

>>10017991
But she didn't.

>>10018394
Most of their everything is in the private sector actually.

>>10018392
She has just proven that reason and logic really are under threat.

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>>10018400

>>10017621

Hillary is the Christian Weston Chandler of politics. The fact they both think an invisible enemy trolls/alt-right, are fucking with their lives and campaign proves this.

>>10018424
But people did fuck with cwc

Didn't she try to define reality by trying to tell the reader who should be relied on?

>>10018426

I worded that wrong but they both have the "I can't accept reality so I create my own." ideal. Do you think we'll get a trans Hillary saga?

>>10018415
Except she is wrong.

The brainwasher is not trying to generate mistrust towards authority.

He is clearly brainwashing him.

>>10018415
>media supports antifa for nearly a year
>media is not a threat

>>10017991
Are you ((((literally)))) retarded?

>>10017991
I think you misread it.

>>10018457
>media supports antifa
Wat

>>10018475
There was a near complete blackout on antifa protest violence, for example Eric Holden and bikelock assault

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>>10018457
Back to the containment board.

>>10017621
>Attempting to define reality
I hate ambiguous phrases like this. Does it mean attempting to explain reality, describe reality, or create a new reality?

Attempting to define reality is what a lot of people do in various ways.

>>10017621
Well, it should be noted that plenty of Drumpftards see Hillary as Big Brother as well.

All sides are dumb

>>10018501
>All sides are dumb

We've established that there's something wrong with the Clinton and Trump sides, but why heap everyone else in with them? What have the detached Cynics' side done to offend?

>>10018501
Hillary is Big Brother grown senile and having illusions of grandeur. Her attemped totalitarism was so impotent it didn't even manage to look scary.

>>10017883
As with almost everything HRC does: the left hates it, the right hates it, and milquetoast center left slay queen cultists love it.

Hillary needs to just go back into the fuckin woods man. Even establishment Dems are mad at her. She's like a wounded animal, she literally cannot comprehend that she just wasn't good enough to beat the windbag so she published an entire book blaming the left for pointing out that she needed to be better. It's like she thinks that pointing out a hole in the ship is what makes the water come in, not the hole itself.

>>10018500
Even those who say reality eludes definition are trying to define reality, they just have special standards of sensemaking that an opinion must survive to be valid. Attempting to define reality is what everyone does every time they express an idea. That's why good ideas are such because they endure scrutiny, and people like hilary clinton and every other dipshit child that thinks an opinion only needs to feel good to be worth preserving, are going to be the downfall of our species.

>>10018540
2016 was an election between two out of touch, sundowning children.

Trump is the kid who says "my house my rules" and is just a blatant spoiled dick who calls people doodoo face.
Hillary is the kid who's parents tell them they're smart so they go "Actually..." in class all the time but they're just wrong all the time. She basically just said "I'm rubber you're glue..." in every debate.

>>10017621
>the core of authoritarianism is creating mistrust toward authority
holy fucking shit this can't be real

The ghost writer who wrote this has to be lynched.

There's just so much mental retardation I can bare.

>>10018700
The ghost candidate too.

This retarded, sorry excuse of a political party is the reason why Trump won.

>>10017995
Spotted the non american. 1984, Animal Farm, Farheit 451, and Brave New World are basically part of curriculm in highschool here. Why do you think Americans distrust news and governemt so much? It's encouraged here. Well in my highschool it was. I don't know how cucked they are now or how cucked euro school lit is. They probably read about how to properly obey and suck migrant dick.

>>10018700
I love how Hillary can't admit she used one so she'll have to own up to this.

>>10018700
Wonder if any semi prominent ghostwriters passed away under mysterious circumstances recently

>>10018740
Well here in Germany we read Goethe, Kant etc

>>10017621
>This is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel Ninteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shock until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered.

>The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrusts toward exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide policy based on evidence, ourselves.

>and to sow mistrust toward exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press..

No way she wrote that one with a straight face..

>>10019757
The Urcucks

>>10018404
>>10018462
>>10018465
Not him but
>his is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel Ninteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shock until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered.
>The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrust toward exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press..

This is so stupid it feels like it hurts my brain. The sentences don't even logically follow from one to the other.

>>10019757
Do you not read 1984 at all as part of a core curriculum, Hans?

>>10017621
Didn't she help to try to redefine reality in the gender question?

>>10018377
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
good one pal

>>10018377
I doubt he'd have voted at all

>>10018493
He's right though

Perhaps you need to pull your head out of the ground (or perhaps your ass?)

The media's been playing interference for democrats for years, but the past two have been especially egregious.

>logic and reason are proper thinking becuz i sed so
>if u questhon ur just brainwash

>somehow this isn't authoritarian

>>10019877
I mean if Orwell had to pick a candidate it would've been Bernard.

>>10018022
>Marie Antoinette even had a farmhouse retreat built so she could escape palace life and feel like a peasant.
there were like 7 houses built around one pond.

anyways, vive le roi

>>10018520
*eyes roll out of socket and onto the floor*

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>yet another thinly disguised politics thread

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lol

>>10021170
t. people who would vote Sarah Palin because of a set of genitals

>>10017621
so why is she wrong and about what?

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>>10017621

>>10019902
I mean, he was quite literally a social democrat.

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>>10021188

she's trying to call Trump 1984, despite pic related

>>10017621
I'm gonna read that book just for the lulz

>>10021225
Please don't give her your money.

>>10021409
Got the epub for it since yesterday my bruh

>>10017991
I think you're retarded

>>10021209
Wtf this is absolutely hilarious. Where is it from?

>>10017690
Nah, the elite class just dictated, disparaged and ignored the masses in the past. Today they try to appeal to the masses, which exposes their delusion and hate for non-elites.

>>10019851
We read Brave New World and I graduated in '13

>>10021877
1913?

>>10017621
[muffled berniewouldawon in the distance]

>>10022472
BERNIE CAN STILL WIN.
WE CAN DO THIS!

>>10022528
WE WILL WIN! JUST MATCH ME!

>>10021170
>just normalize tokenism.
Great.

>>10021188
Because the DNC currently is 1984 incarnate.

>>10017621
tl;dr
The goal of the Party was to sow mistrust and dissent towards the Party itself.

>>10021209
Came here just to see this.
And this
>>10021221

>>10017621
>We NEED to rely on our leaders, government, and the press.
Pls don't wrongthink

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/11/which_is_worse_a_photo_of_an_a.html

>>10017690
Considering we've started directly electing the rich elite (Trump) over their paid shills (Hillary) I'd say they're plenty "in touch". Enough to laughably frame themselves as anti-establishment and have people believe it.

>>10017621
1984 comparisons are incredibly cliché and stupidly heavy handed, that's what you get from allusions to a novel written by someone who was primarily an essayist I guess. I don't think Orwell would have liked either candidate (although he was firmly a leftist), but he'd be incredibly concerned by the bipartisan endorsement of mass surveillance and public ambivalence to it. Sites like 4chan give us a comfortable illusion of anonymity. Freedom of speech seldom even needs to be infringed, it's just drowned out in a constant flood of hysterical sentiment by an overly political and narrowly educated population.

>>10018022
She urged Louis not to tax the first and second estate. She was a fucking bitch and got what she deserved.

>>10018457
>media supports antifa for nearly a year

I wish. The moral equivalence between antifa and neo nazis is facetious anyway. The far right promotes survival of the fittest, authoritsrian repression of civil rights and mass genocide, only hiding behind civility when they're the victims. Antifa (rightly) recognizes that the task of the hero is to vanquish evil.

>>10021209
Brilliant. Sauce?

>>10022877
my problem is different.

even if the motivations for antifa are somewhat better, militancy in the american political landscape should always be squelched.

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>>10022877
>Antifa (rightly) recognizes that the task of the hero is to vanquish evil
lol Antifa is a bunch of middle class shitheads who want to have 5 minutes of fame for doing something that causes infamy in the world

>>10017690
Uh, yeah, basically every elite class ever. Modern elites are extremely aware of how best to control and manipulate the people. Identity politics, on both the left and right, has been explicitly used for this purpose. Do you think its a fucking coincidence that the two major party candidates in 2016 was a millionaire and a billionaire?

>>10022980
Ummmmm try again, sweetie.

Antifa is the only thing standing between you and the jackboot of fascist dictatorship, so a little appreciation? kthxbye

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>>10022998

>>10017690
Adding to the points I made here >>10022995

Do you honestly believe Hillary believes anything that was written in that book and that it isn't a calculated and conscious political ploy?

Seriously, the elite classes in the world before mass democratization cared 0 fucks about the thoughts and desires of the lower classes. For the elites in today's hyperdemocratic world, keeping a hand on the pulse of the average person is essential to maintaining their power.

>>10023008
She is so obvious about it tho

>>10023021
Just goes to show how braindead people are to vote for her then

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>>10022776

>>10018377
>Demsoc meme
Topkek

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>>10022877
I wish. The moral equivalence between antifa and neo nazis is facetious anyway. The far left promotes forced collectivism, authoritsrian repression of civil rights and mass genocide, only hiding behind civility when they're the victims. Neo-nazis (rightly) recognizes that the task of the hero is to vanquish evil.

Also
>Implying fascist are social darwinists

>>10022998
(◔◡◔)

Oh dear. Some people just can't seem to get that Antifa are the good guys, and gals, here.

Their name is LITERALLY Anti-fascists, how can you oppose that? Are you a fascist?

If it weren't for them Trump's racist drones would be lynching POC everywhere and putting racist monuments on their graves.

(◡‿◡)
But what can you do? I'm not gonna cry over spilled jasmine green tea. I'm just going to accept the fact that people voted for Drumpf and let Antifa dismantle capitalism.

>>10022903
>even if the motivations for antifa are somewhat better
They aren't at all though, they are just a bunch of black block LARP'ers who deny the Holodomor and beat up anyone to the right of chomsky. Their motivations are solely violence in itself, as they have romanticized violence to the point where they lack any sort of cohesive voice except beat everyone up

>It's everyone's fault why I didn't win the election except my own!

There, I just saved you from reading 250 pages of ghost written drivel.

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>>10022998
>You'd better cede your property to the commune , comrade, or it's the gulags for you!
>Hate speech is not free speech, even though we are anarchists there is no such thing as freedom if you disagree with me on race and religion

>>10023052
Damn this is the best new pasta ever, thanks!

Trump is turning out to be average at best, but anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton is a god damn moron who I want nothing to do with.
I don't care if you're the nicest person ever. You actually went to a voting booth and voted for a proven criminal. For that, you are lower than pond scum in my eyes.

I enjoy fiction sometimes in order to forget all of the problems in this world (which is why I'm on this shithole board sometimes), but maybe if you guys read more non fiction then maybe you'll have a slightly better understanding of how the world works and wouldn't be so fucking bluepilled.

>>10018045
He would have voted Green party

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>>10017958
>daily caller foundation
>mainstream

>>10017621
Why does a person who's a symbol of bluepill nowadays promoting a redpill book?

>>10023153
because pill talk is idiotic

>>10021745
>>10022898

Found on /pol/ idk sauce

>>10021642

Do you agree with Hillary that what America really needs is "fun camps for adults" where they can be "forced to listen"?

>>10023174
She was talking about a scene in the book, not the whole book.

What camps?

>>10022877
>The far right promotes

Yeah they promote a lot of things, meanwhile antifa actually goes out to assault senior citizens and set small businesses on fire. The nsdap came to power primarily because the excesses of the left in the 20s convinced the average German that sending leftists to a firing squad was a sensible and practical policy.

>leftists keep blabbering about perspectives, narratives, subjectivity and other relativisms [via postmodernism]
>trump ups the ante and efectively kills truth
>libs have no option but to revert back to enlightenment-style rigid rationality and logic
this is glorious

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>>10023255
>libs have no option but to revert back to enlightenment-style rigid rationality and logic
The option was always there but I don't see them taking it.

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>>10017621
Except for who she is, she's correct.

>>10019695
>semi prominent ghostwriters
Doesn't that make him a bad ghostwriter?

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>>10017690
Yes.

>>10023382
Funny , considering we americans based our entire government system off their republic.

>>10017995
>retarded American libtard
That's a double tardative.
Please correct your post, either stick with
>retarded American Liberal
or
>American libtard
and really you and I both know "libtard" just makes you look more retarded than the liberals do.

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>>10023387
this better be bait

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>>10018457
~t. triggered republican snowflake

>>10023460
People who post this imagine and think they have shown us didn't think it through.

Right wingers do not operate on the principle of equality, fairness and universality. What we do is good, what they do is wrong. We have open double standards. The funny thing about the "phew so much for tolerant left" blurp is that they oppose violence and double standards, but this always lead to dilemmas they cannot solve. The leftliberal ideology collapses onto itself, while the rogth wing doesn't have to explain anything- they root for their own team, fin.

>>10023443
>We aren't a republic
This better be b8

>>10017621
http://offendedamerica.com/censorship-alert-amazon-deleting-1-star-reviews-hillarys-book/

amazon-deleting-1-star-reviews

>George Orwell is by this time doing cartwheels in his grave

>>10023532
This board is filled with people who worship scat fetishists and probably never read a non fiction book in their lives (philosophy is useless trash and doesn't count).
You should never underestimate the stupidity of this board.

>>10023488
nice hitler dubs

>>10018002
Imagine lying about reading Ulysses. No shame whatsoever in not having read that.

>>10023532
Not him but he didn't actually say the US wasn't a republic. Learn to read.

>>10023601
He implied it , when someone comments " the US is a republic" and someone responds "this better be b8" , what does that imply?

So I gave it a pirate.

This book is BAD. Utterly unreadable. Low-grade trash. 523 pages of unbridled self-indulgent ghostwritten whining. It's the biggest load of autistic screeching you'll read this side of the Koran.

>>10023607
This isn't difficult, babes. Look, he responded to >>10023387 which claimed,
>Funny , considering we americans based our entire government system off their republic

So, I would surmise he was questioning the validity of the claim that the US "based our entire government off their republic". (Don't blame me for the shitty wording.)

Should you really be on /lit/ if your reading comprehension and/or basic logic skills are so obviously lacking? Wait, given recent standards, that shouldn't matter.

>>10023599
Oh, it's perfectly feasible. I just can't imagine anyone pulling it off. You could memorise the summary completely, but as soon someone asked you about the weirdest thing that you read there, you'd have nothing. At the same time, you'd have buddies rolling the floor over wild Macintosh man, priest watching his watch, and Shakespeare references.

>>10023621
Fuck you! Now i'm intrigued... So fuck you again!

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>>10023114
No. You're wrong.

"One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.”

He also hated fags.

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>>10018058
Most of them can't even read, its very sad actually

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>>10023678
>every fruit-juice drinker
The man had a beautiful way with words

>>10023641
>based our entire government off their republic".
Except that's true you moron :/ the minor differences we have does not mask the fact that we ripped the government style off of the Romans and are repeating their mistakes, you sorry, sorry, pseud.

What worse is your such an idiot that you can't realize just how bad your reading comprehension is, but not only that, your actual understanding of US politics is so lacking that I'd refer you to finishing the 5th grade.

>>10023678
He was still a socialist, even if he did damn sandal wearers and fruit juice drinkers in that famous extract (which I think you've discovered by Googling "Orwell socialism quotes".)
>Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism

Have you read any of his essays?

>He also hated fags

Well that at least is true.

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That was her last chance to be president of US.
She is probably the most miserable person in the world RIGHT now, she even make a book about it Once fight Pepe you become pepe

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>>10023696
Aw, did mommy tuck you in?

Again, learn. To. Read.

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>>10023488
The fact your side STILL can't discern Liberal from Socialist, and Libertarian-Socialist from Authoritarian-Socialist, or Conservative Socialist from Liberal-Socialist shows your side has a totally inaccurate model of your enemy, his character, quality, and motivations.
You keep this up, and you will keep getting your teeth kicked in in the street like the bitches you are.

>>10023764
>Liberal from Socialist, and Libertarian-Socialist from Authoritarian-Socialist, or Conservative Socialist from Liberal-Socialist
all anyone needs to know is what these have in common is they're shitty parties lmao

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>>10023678
Again we see the brainlet-right confusing a Conservative Libertarian Socialist with a capitalist liberal progressive.

This is getting embarrassing, guys.

>>10023771
>I know all I need to know
>which coincidentally is anything tactically useful

Right-Wing Militarists who have never been in the military or read military tactical literature BTFO forever

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>>10023771
>all anyone needs to know is what these have in common is they're shitty parties lmao

Yes... Laughing your "ass" off, indeed.

>>10023792
>which coincidentally isn't anything tactically useful
fix'd my typo

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>>10023702
I read this a couple of years ago and remembered that "famous extract".

Yeah. I've read a few of his essays you fucking cocksucker.

>>10023782

Libertarian Socialist, Left Libertarian, and Anarcho-Communism are all self-contradictory memes bub

>>10023771
>>10023764
Libertarian Socialism. What an ideology! A government who presumes to rule by taking care of the basic needs of their citizens, and leaving the private marketplace alone. A fantastic idea. All the benefits of capitalism and socialism. After all, capitalism is not responsible for the unfairness of the American marketplace; it is not without the government's undue interference that corporations made citizens their stepping stone!

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>>10023793
>>10023792
indeed my fellow intellectualists

>>10023800
Well then, you would know he was a socialist.

Which of his essays, out of interest?

>>10023764
>If you keep getting my political pronouns wrong then I will continue to demonstrate my libertarianism by physically assaulting you for having the wrong opinions

As I said, self-contradictory memes

>>10023818
Would you call Noam Chomsky a self-contradictory memer

>>10023702
And by the way you fucking faggot, where did I say he wasn't a socialist?

Good fucking Christ. im never leavin /fit/ again. Reddit tier smug bullshit.

>>10017958
Nailed it.

>>10023805
If you did some fucking reading and understood the difference between personal and private property, and simple realities of the workplace, you would see how god damn utterly fucking ignorant that assertion is.

Basic Reality Number One: there is no magical divider between a State and Private Ownership. You can live in the free-est state EVER devised, and even where there is NO state, and yet live the majority or totality of your life in total subjugation, because even now in the US and the rest of the Capitalist World, when you clock in to your shift, or sign your salaray contract, you are submitting to Total Dictatorship.
Your boss decides when you go to the bathroom, when you can go home to sleep, when you have to come in or stay home, how much money you have to live, and so on. The only people with any power at all are the Owners, and that's by design an extremely small group. Controlling Interest.

Any "libertarian" that ISN'T a socialist isn't a libertarian at ALL.

wikipedia "Libertarian Municipalism" and git gud, you fucking nigger faggot

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>>10023813
this one by packer, and the other one by packer.

>>10023826
>im never leavin /fit/ again

And my job here is done.

>>10018022
Poor, sweet, peasant girl... All the ever wanted was a permanent holiday away from responsibility and the riff raff!

>>10023830
I hate the way you write.

State ownership = owned by the state
Private ownership = owned by someone else

Bosses have authority over their workers, but the workers are not owned.

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>>10023712
>The united States is a republic based off of Roman government
>This better be b8
>Durr he isn't saying the United States isn't a republic based off the Roman government , lrn2 read

Obvious troll is obvious

>>10021188
>>10018446
>>10018007
Is this bait, are you really this dumb?

HOLY FUCK HILLARY IS SUGGESTING THAT THE BRAINWASHERS WERE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO NOT RELY ON AUTHORITY BUT SHE GOT IT
COMPLETELY WRONG BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO FULLY RELY ON AUTHORITY JESUS FUCKING CHRIST HOW THICK ARE YOU THAT YOU FELT YOU NEEDED TO POINT YOUR BULLSHIT OUT IF YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHY HER QUOTE IS RETARDED YOU DO. NOT. BELONG HERE GET THE FUCK OUT I WISH YOU WERE DEAD

>>10023856
>ur a troll
That's your best response? Really?

I obviously hit a nerve but it didn't jumpstart the gears in your noggin, huh?

>>10023830
You're a fucking idiot. I would rather be ordered around by a boss that I can talk to and reason with rather than a piece of abstract policy and legislation that is higher ranked than any persons desires.

Socialism wants to replace human connection and spontaneous organisation with beaurocracy. I HATE that.

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>>10023871
>Socialism wants to replace human connection and spontaneous organisation with beaurocracy. I HATE that

Kek. You Americans.

>>10023874
Not an American and not an argument.

>>10023853
Having the authority to control you completely up to and including punishment by starvation "unless you just get another contract from the same kind of owner with the same kind of unequal power position" if you don't do as told sure sounds like owning the worker, even if you pinkie swear and cross your heart PROMISE it isn't ownership.
At least in a democratic state, you have some sort of participation in decision making, even if it's only tertiary. Business Owner is Total Autocrat.

>>10023871
>Socialism wants to replace human connection and spontaneous organisation with beaurocracy. I HATE that.

I also hate that. The only benefit is to ensure charity for the citizens in the form of healthcare. Otherwise, they are overreaching.

>>10023871
But Corporations are competing states, with abstract policy that forms legislation.
That's why you get fired for cussing at the HR lady in the big office, it's against Company Policy. You get fired for asking your coworker how much he gets paid, because it's Company Policy.

Come on man, you can't be this fucking inexperienced and naive.

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>>10023871

>>10023879
Punishment by starvation? In a cell?

Business owners require obedience from their workers, but the workers are free men.

>>10023877
>hur dur socialism is all bureaucracy
>corporations are like that

How do you explain co-operatives?

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>>10023874
>sympathizing with an ideology that kills millions of its own citizens intentionally
LEL

>>10023894
If they are obedient, and following the orders of the boss even when it conflicts with your own safety and community interests, with the punishment being "find another near-identical contract with another near-identical autocrat" which is just starvation.
Your options are "do as I say or starve", that is in fact not freedom.

>>10017647
HOW MANY SCOOPS

>>10023886
Corporations are not states, that's a misuse of the word, even metaphorically. Their rules are their rules, but they do not have ultimate judicial power, only to end relations with their workers.

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>>10023899
And capitalism doesn't do the same thing?

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>>10023899

>>10023898
>How do you explain co-operatives?
A group without hegemony.

Socialism requires the leadership to rule over the citizens, and the larger the bureaucracy of the leadership, the larger stone atop the back of the citizens.

>>10023905
And because of Citizen's United, they have formalized Corporate Control of state, which they had anyway through campaign finance loopholes.
If you live in the western world, you are living under the direct rule of private corporations.
That's the entire argument against the Federal Reserve: it is privately run and not answerable to the people whose lives it directly controls, undemocratically.

>>10023906
No capitalist country murdered 65 million people to start a "great" leap "forward" because they were afraid their intellectuals would start an uprising
>>10023908
nice /pol/ infograph really reliable argument

>>10023911
>Socialism requires the leadership to rule over the citizens,

Why does it require that? You're spouting talking points.

>>10023903
Near-identical contracts are few. Multitudes of jobs exist, even in the real world. Plenty of safe ones.

>>10023908
>Attributing those deaths to capitalism rather than the world just being a real shit place half the time
I don't even like capitalism, but that image is antifa-tier bullshit

>>10023911
But it does NOT require that. You simply WILL NOT decouple Authoritarianism from Socialism, and that's not reality, son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_municipalism

Read. Learn. You're cringey as fuck at this point with this.

>>10023923
If socialized medicine was in place there would not be preventible death due to poor people not being able to get access to real healthcare, i.e. vaccinations and medications.
That's just undeniable.
We have millions, MILLIONS of empty houses, privately owned, sitting empty and falling apart even now.
And yet tens of millions of homeless people dying in the street from exposure and lack of sanitation day by day.
This is not arguable. It's built into the system, and your only retort is some spooky meme bullshit about poor people deserving it because they don't live according to your ideas about an ideal life.

>>10023916
>No capitalist country murdered 65 million people to start a "great" leap "forward" because they were afraid their intellectuals would start an uprising
And no Communist country practically wiped out the entire continents of North America, South America and Australia of their original inhabitants.

I guess we could play this game all day and get nowhere.

>>10023923
If you read the Black Book of Communism - the tome all Conservatives (and Memerson) refer to - the exact same type of deaths are attributed to the "socialist" ideology. If the other side are pulling stupid BS, we can dismiss them similarly.

>>10023943
>North America, South America and Australia of their original inhabitants.
LEL you mean the fucking inhabitants that helped capitalists to kill them because they hated their rival tribes. Nice work really but fuck off

>>10023948
>LEL you mean the fucking inhabitants that helped capitalists to kill them because they hated their rival tribes

One can almost predict to a word what these pol tourists will say next. They have approximately five arguments and they will stretch them to apply them to anything.

Not worth my time.

>>10023917
Socialism requires the leadership to rule over the citizens because the leadership entitles themselves to what belongs to the citizens, for the leadership to reallocate.

>>10023963
>not having an argument
Check and mate ;)

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>>10023969
>Check and mate ;)

>>10023914
I am also against the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is what enslaves the people, but it would not be possible without the government. It is not an abomination that arose because of the free market.

>>10023966
What's that got to do with the democratic ownership of the means of production? You're working in an Americanised (read: bastardised) paradigm where socialism automatically means big government, or government interference. What the other anon has been trying to draw your attention to - and his efforts are heroic - are libertarian (i.e. Paris Commune, Catalonia) forms of socialism, which have nothing to do with authoritarian socialism (in fact, they're mostly stateless).

Now be honest: you haven't read much socialist theory, have you?

>>10023939
I live in a third world country, I know how rough it is for people, but just the same, I don't want people from the first world to sacrifice their hard-earned money and possibly their livelihoods for our sake. What I want to know is how would you solve this problem? Land redistribution? Because that worked so well every time it was attempted in the 20th century.

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>>10023992
>Land redistribution? Because that worked so well every time it was attempted in the 20th century.

Well, yes. In fact it did.

>>10023928
Libertarian municipalities are not unanswerable to larger governments, until the day states relinquish all power and allow people the freedom to rule themselves as they wish. Even in Athens there were rulers.

>>10023999
I think the problem would be better solved stopping the outsourcing of industries to other countries and halting international aid and using the money to form labour unions to get the unemployed back to work. Not to mention, removing career politicians from office and replacing them with more specialized officials.

>>10023991
Does the democracy own my production, or me?
I have the freedom to leave a commune

>>10023966
Where does it say that in any of Murray Bookchin's writings?

>>10023969
>Mr. Andrew Jackson, we hate our rival tribes so will you please displace our cherokee nation and march us from the southeast to oklahoma?
kid, you are so full of revisionist bullshit. any state based on capitalist ideology absolutely values the production and acquisition of resources over public health and wellbeing.

>>10024032
>oh no a few THOUSAND people died under ONE presidency
wow cool argument kiddo
>absolutely values the production and acquisition of resources over public health and wellbeing
you mean just like socialism lol the only difference is capitalists don't intentionally starve people to death to keep them nice and firm sheep

>>10023991
I wrote this comment:

Libertarian Socialism. What an ideology! A government who presumes to rule by taking care of the basic needs of their citizens, and leaving the private marketplace alone. A fantastic idea. All the benefits of capitalism and socialism. After all, capitalism is not responsible for the unfairness of the American marketplace; it is not without the government's undue interference that corporations made citizens their stepping stone!

Democratic ownership of the means of production implies that I am answerable to the democratic body. That is not the free market.

>>10024032
Every state in the history of mankind at one point valued production and resource acquisition over public health and wellbeing, and with good reason. States that concern themselves too much with attempting to be a utopia for its people usually end up getting conquered or overshadowed by new rising powers

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what does /lit/ think of Amazon reviews?

>>10023866
Obvious troll, still very obvious

>>10024054
>every state in the history of mankind
sir, you are forgetting the contemporary socialist states of Scandinavia.

>>10024142

The minimal Thomas Sowell-esque cover design is aesthetic as fuck. Shame it was wasted on such a shit book.

>>10024043
>the genocide of native americans is a meme!
you are a fool.
what part of socialist ideology involves intentionally starving people? do socialist countries in northern europe intend to starve their people? where does the socialist party in this country stand on publicly funded food stamps to help feed the hungry?
Capitalism has no such benevolence. In American capitalism, you win and become money, or you lose, and become poor. The public deems that you deserve your own fate either way, and that the poor must not have been smart enough or capable enough to succeed. Tragedy befalls many people, and the fact is that poor people are treated like parasites in capitalist states and are forgotten. This land of plenty could help many of them, but in doing so, would up heave the popular notion of valuing money and success over simple public health and benevolence.

>>10024150
And look at the state they're in.

>>10024150
The place that still had a eugenics program until the 70's?

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>>10024198
>when a antisoc rebutts with a vague disparaging of european socialism that leaves you scratching your head

>>10024177
>and the fact is that poor people are treated like parasites in capitalist states and are forgotten
Oh you mean just like in communist societies like how Mao intentionally starved half his country for the benefit of his ideology? Just like how Stalin started Holodomor to purge Ukrainians. Yep real peaceful benevolence communism provides when you purposely kill your own people to advance your party! Damn Lumpenproletariats am I right fellow Trotskyite

almost all of this thread is dumb political opinions and hardly anything about the book it's allegedly about can someone pls kill this so these fucks can go back to pol

>>10024212
>Antisoc
>being too much of a brainlet to know that classical fascism developed from Sorelian socialism

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>>10024212
>meanwhile Sweden has grenade attacks on a regular basis
hooray for socialism

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>>10023891
>These aren't police, they are counter revolutionary control squads!
>How else are we going to make sure that the bourgeoise comply to our demands?

>>10024282
>Fascism came from Georges Sorel
No, although he was an influence among many.

>>10018392
her ghost writer really fucked up

>>10018557
YAAAASSSS Slay QUEEEN

>>10018740
>implying that anyone remembers anything read in high school
Seriously, how old are you?

>>10024469
>board about books
>being unable to remember what books you read
/lit/ - Memory Problems

>>10024214
And yet those are criticisms of AUTHORITARIANISM/TOTALITARIANISM, not socialism as such.
Really activates my almonds

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>>10024483
Strange it's like... socialism IS a veiled form of totalitarianism!

>>10022877
The opposite of insanity is still crazy

>IT and every socialist-bait T: brainlets fail to understand how human nature corrupts the use of power in every form of government, leading all of them through an inevitable decay into despotic authoritarianism which can only be avoided through continuous revolution and active opposition from the citizens
Your government is your enemy

I'm not going to waste my time and read this thread so can anyone tell me....
Is /lit/ finally redpilled now or is this board still "Bernie 2016" tier?

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>>10024509

Ugh... socialism has never been tried on a wide scale. Venezuela? China? Soviet Union? All totalitarian. They did it wrong. That was Capitalism in disguise.

>>10024439
>I deliberately refuse to recognize that libertarian socialism is nothing at all like authoritarian communism

It was tired an hour ago, man, damn. Brainlet af

>>10024509
Except it's not though, you god damn moron.
I am adult enough and intellectually honest enough to recognize differences between forms of capitalism, like State Capitalism, Social Democracy, Laissez-faire Libertarian Capitalism, and so on. I recognize that the capitalism in Singapore is not like the capitalism in the US or in EU.
I mean damn, son. You could come half way, but no, it's easier to not think and rely on nonarguments based on your limited information perceptions of a system you only know through the lens of Reagan-era propaganda.

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>>10024531
And yet corruption in business somehow doesn't real

>>10024600
And yet when we criticize capitalism, it's not REAL LIBERTARIAN CAPITALISM, WELFARE STATES ARE DIFFERENT THO AND OUR PURE FREE MARKETISM HAS NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO EXIST
>corporatism is not capitalism maymay

And yet your inability to recognize any other socialism other than USSR and Mao and Venezuela, that is just acceptable.

Hypocrisy is a requirement of your form of liberalism, isn't it?

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>>10024724
>I deliartely refuse to understand the difference between idealogy and reality and deny that the CNT eva did anythin wrong
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)
*yawn* when will anarkiddies grow up?

>>10024749
No, of course not. But it is inefficient, which means businesses that are corrupt will eventually fail, which is a much more consistent system to root it out than anything we have to deal with the natural monpoly that is a government

>>10024827
Efficiency can and does happen in government, just because the current regimes have been comfortably wealthy long enough that they are out of touch and corrupting more and more by the day.
Governments rise and fall just as businesses do. A Government and a Business and a Church are all the same things: human organizations. There are many ways to do it, but any human endeavor involving a community is subject to all the same problems as any other kind, because humans are in them.
Human Nature, i.e. being a greedy fuck, is not a hard coded fact. Primates are social animals. Most animals are, actually. The true nature of humanity is to work together. That's how we have survived for millions of years, since before we got the Sapiens Sapiens ending.

There's nothing human beings can't do with motivation and sincerity.
If people are taught to be greedy assholes, and that greed is good, then of course you end up with shit. And that's what we've got.
But we CAN do better.

>>10024743
>I am adult enough and intellectually honest enough
lmao k kiddo happy you feel like a big boy thinking Stalin's communism is any different from Marx's even though it isn't and prescribes blood shed all the same and for the goobermint to have total authority over man

>>10024928
I'm talking about Murray Bookchin.
Not Marxism-Leninism.
What the fuck is wrong with you, brainlet?

>>10024935
lol why the hell have you been arguing with me about communism if your shitty party is libertarianism

>>10024749
niBBa the government is not your daddy and the corps are not your mommy. And for that matter the "experts" are not your friendly Uncle Joe. Nobody loves you from atop their throne, whether it's ivory, gold or blue. When your solution to a problem is the exact same problem with a different name you haven't solved shit. Government need only be just strong enough to prevent citizens/groups of citizens/corporations from running roughshod over each other, any bigger and the government is the one running roughshod.

>le "authoritarianism is bad" meme again
This shit ruined both parties to high hell.

>>10025142
I didn't say it was bad in and of itself.
I personally believe in authority and hierarchy, just not abusive parasitic forms of it.
>>10025032
Yeah well, I'm not advocating for bigger government, I am advocating for libertarian municipalism and syndicalism.
If you knew what those terms meant you could bait the hook slightly better.

How much do you suppose her ghostwriter got paid? Is ghostwriting lucrative?

>>10025197
1. a lot
2. it is, very.

>Her Interpretation of Orwell
>Her Interpretation of Wallace

I can't shake the feeling that Hillary Clinton would fail the Voight-Kampff test. It feels like I'm reading something written by a replicant, or an alien pretending to be human and failing.

>>10019883
Why the fuck not? What would he gain out of not voting?

>>10023046
>collectivism
As does the far right or anyone who isn't an ancap retard.

>genocide
Only according to conspiracy theorists that define voluntary relationships as genocide. Espe stupid considering white people in the west are less likely to mix than other races.

>also, implying fascist are social darwinists
It's literally the foundation of their ideology.

>>10025269
>actions can be voluntary

spook'd

>>10017991
>American readers

>>10022843
Considering we just elected Caesar, I'd say the Optimate are plenty "in touch."

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I have no fucking words

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>>10025427

>Going for the GoT reference
>NOT going for the "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

I guess Democrats are atheists and all, but really?

>>10025427
>literally compares herself to a gorgon

Man I bet her ghostwriter had the time of his life writing this shit.

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>>10025269
>Only according to conspiracy theorists that define voluntary relationships as genocide.
So did the Holodomor and Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge just not cross your minds?
>Voluntary relationships
I wouldn't call mass propoganda from bourgeoise trying to import 3rd world labor to drive down global real wages voluntary, especially when it involves corporate sponsored censorship in schools and the work place that sterilizes any resistant thought to the current liberal zeitgeist.

>>10025243
She is a neo-liberal politician, she is meant to sound sterilized

>>10025269
>It's literally the foundation of their ideology.
Also, no. Social Darwinism focuses solely on the individual , not the collective. Fascism directly opposes social darwinism , actually, and Hitler used to go on long rants about the immorality of liberal capitalism as part of his ideology.

Just because fascism is pro-Darwinian does not make it a fan of Social Darwinism

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The part that gets me about all this, is the name of the book. Not to get too /pol/ here, but are they really oblivious enough that the question needs to be asked?
Its obvious "what happened". You fucking lost you dimwits.

>>10023171
It's from a guy on twitter, pixelatedboat
he's pretty funny

>>10025427
>I'm just like Cersei Lannister!

a political mind

>>10023188
A senior Trump supporter punched an old lady in the face so hard she had to be hospitalized and put on oxygen.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/69-year-old-woman-punched-in-the-face-at-trump-rally.html

A military veteran had their truck set on fire, by a radical right winger, just for being transgender.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/10612/report-transgenders-truck-set-fire-after-being-frank-camp#

Even a comedian was attacked just for criticizing Trump.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdYHdbWduNs

Overall the number of politically motivated crimes by right wingers in the US since Trump's campaign is more than 1000, and the number against Trump Supporters has been less than 30. After Charlottesville, the outright vehicular murder of a woman was mocked by the Daily Stormer because she was overweight and didn't have kids.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/hate_in_america_a_list_of_racism_bigotry_and_abuse_since_the_election.html

>>10025494
No ideology truly focuses on the individual. When you're talking about groups of individuals as superior or inferior, that's designating a collective. Fascists just support different mechanisms of murdering persecuted groups than retarded Victorian classists who want to starve the poor.

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This is the funnies part so far.
The bitch cannot fanthom why people voted for such a flawed candidate as Trump, and I afraid she will never get it.
(Hint: because she was even worse)

>>10025868
Trump ran an effective campaign and Hillary didn't. People only voted for Hillary because they hatred Trump more, which is fair enough but she herself had little appeal. That's the bottom line. The idea that 4chan or even the alt right as a whole determined the election is pretty ridiculous, it's more of an increasing politicization of non-heavy internet users and a surge of charismatic leaders with little experience (Trump, Obama) over career politicians.

>>10025886
Let me put it this was: it's better to be an amateur than a shitty human being.
Going steady through the book. I have not read a book in years. This is great entertainment.

>>10025427
But Cersei Lannister was guilty, should be ashamed and the sparrows were 100% right about everything.

>>10025897
I feel like anyone who feels any sympathy for Cersei is, deep down, just as awful as she is. She's legitimately a monster, in both the show and the books.

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>>10023188
>set small businesses on fire
good, fuck 'em

>>10017690
Jews in Weimar Germany, Qing in early 20th c.

>>10017690
They know that class consciousness is extremely low these days. Fox News will openly bring Marxist economists like Richard Wolff on the show because they know people won't try thinking out of their comfort zone.

>>10018346
And a patriot. His beef with natsoc was the racism and he peaced out of Spain because he thought antifa would kill him.

>>10022877
Antifa's interpretation of "fascist" is everyone right of the democrats.

>>10025940
Is this some kind of joke?

>>10025946
Being right of the Democrats is a pretty small portion of the political spectrum.
>>10025940
Pretty sure the fashies were the ones that shot him in the throat while he was fighting for the anarcho-syndicalists.

>>10023871
Sorry my nibba. The market, facilitated by feminism and other movements by the left to lube the cock of capitalism, has destroyed pre-market relations. Now all there is is nationalism and socialism led by imperators and cheered on by plebs.

>>10025868
Lol no awareness
"I lost to the most ostentatiously bad person possible. Why didn't people vote for someone as good as me?"

>>10025886
Alt right and 4chan swung it (memes, argumentation strategies, giving permission for conservatives to be outrageous)

>>10025896
>it's better to be an amateur than a shitty human being.

Trump is both. Look at how he mocked John McCain for being captured and tortured while dodging the draft himself. Look into his comments about walking in on teenagers dressing in the Miss Teen America pageant he owned. Look at his abuse of imminent domain laws where he legally forced home owners to evict their own properties so he could expand his business establishments catering to the rich. The guy has no principles, which is why he ran as a Democrat for so many years before seizing the chance to gain power as a Republican. I agree that Hillary blows wang and represented a kind of creeping monarchist tendency of nepotism in American politics (like Bush) but Trump is still an asshole in my book. America needs a real multi party system because the binary party bullshit is radicalizing everyone and even seeping into other Western countries. People are fanatically tribal right now.

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>>10025967
>this post
WHAT ABOUT THE MEMES

>>10025967
I'm not denying they had some effect but they were not the deciding influence by any margin. Young voters by and large still voted against him despite being most of the alt right's main audience. Conservatives were mostly sick of having eight years of Obama, just like the left was invigorated by Bush. Trump's own image was a far larger persuasive force.

>>10025954
>Being right of the Democrats is a pretty small portion of the political spectrum.
More than one in four people.

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So, when are they going to accuse the ghost writer of being a Russian?

>Hillary, we don't want to read your book. We want to read your emails.

>>10025981
*in the United States

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>>10025954

>>10025979
I mean they swung it in the sense that the election was by a thin margin and their influence can be credited with at least that much of a margin. They weren't the main factor, and they were part of a larger context.

>>10025992
*in the capital state of the world imperium

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Here's one for /leftypol/

>>10026008
Holy shit.

At any point in this book does she ever take any responsibility for her campaign being a total garbage fire?

>>10026024
She's still making money off of it with this book.

>>10026004
>I mean they swung it in the sense that the election was by a thin margin and their influence can be credited with at least that much of a margin.

There's no real way to quantify this. How many people did it actually persuade vs simply preaching the choir? It presumably dissuaded an amount of people by association and inspired others to vote for Hillary. We can't really know.

I personally think Trump would have easily won without the alt right, or he would have inspired similar movements due to his personality if they didn't exist at the time anyway. The rural vs urban political gap is also much more of a factor than you're making it out to be. No single factor "swings" such a large statistical aggregate like that.

>>10018010
Except she'd drink the alcohol

>>10025970

If you did 30 seconds research on McCain, you'd know there's severe questions about his military service from people that knew about it, the reporting is there. Not to mention McCain has the blood of millions on his hands for his warmongering activities.

All of your other shit is totally nonsense. There was no credible case of him molesting girls, notice how all those sluts didn't speak up until October and shut up right after the election? How do you think cities were built if not for imminent domain?

You sound like you literally watch Maddow all day.

>>10025839
Good post.

>>10026008
Christ Almighty, she's horrendous. She's trying desperately to make sure the "Bernie Bros" meme makes it into the history books.

I hate her.

>>10025839
I've seen 30 crimes against trump supporters at one rally

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>>10026067
The wind doesn't count.

>>10025886
>>10025967
why do people even bother bringing up how many votes a candidate gets when the only votes that matter are electoral votes

>>10025839
i dont care enough to compile you a list trump supporters or random people assaulted and harrassed by antifa(bikelock incident comes to mind), but the difference is that antifa actively promotes the illegal stuff whereas the other side are random people who more often than not are not racist or fascist or anything and do nothing illegal

>>10026076
Because you need to get votes in order to get electoral votes

>>10025839
>Overall the number of politically motivated crimes by right wingers in the US since Trump's campaign is more than 1000, and the number against Trump Supporters has been less than 30
This is just not true.