Be absolutely honest /lit/, are you pretentious?

Not overtly.

>>10001073
Yes, and its a good thing

Of course you silly goose

duh

My words bear the weight of a thousand suns.

Depends on the context tbqh. I bet I can appear pretentious around people who don't share my interests, but around people who do, I'm just talking.

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>tfw someone asks what music I've been listening to lately and I have to sit there for like 30 seconds trying to think of - not just an artist they might recognize - a normal artist that is even analogous to what I'm actually listening to

At least people have heard of most good books, so it isn't hard to say "I read Anna Karenina"

>>10001073
Jaded and well informed, thanks to the internet and a fucked up childhood that resulted in drug abuse..... But hey, not like 99% of humans on earth should understand what it is like to loose your fucking mind anymore, huh?

Entheogens are what humanity needs, liberty will follow.

I sometimes feel pretentious around my friends, but I think that's just because they're all ultra-plebs when it comes to literature.

no, i am a very sincere man

>>10001073
A pretentious person would never admit he or she is pretentious. Possessing the self-awareness required to realize one is (or comes off as) pretentious is a demonstration that one is not (or is no longer) pretentious.

>>10001209
Same here, except that they are ultra-pleb about music, tv, and films aswell, which I guess, to them, makes me sound pretentious about everything

not only am i a pretentious pseud, i constantly shit-talk other pretentious pseuds.
and I can't even back up my pretentiousness with the difficulty, amount or depth of books I read
i'm just a garbage human being overall. if you saw me in public, you'd want to punch me in the face and I couldn't even blame you

>>10001073
I am smart, but I also want to look smart. So yeah, probably. It usually comes off as me seeming like a smart guy who thinks he's smarter than he is.

>>10001073
Yeah. But I also have a good heart.

>>10001239
you are interesting as fuck. tell me a bit about yourself

>>10001227
you sound pretentious desu senpai

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>>10001252
nothing interesting about me, just over-compensating due to teenage insecurity (I'm 19), like alot of people my age.
some become the shy-type while I became an obnoxious douchebag that had to express his dissatisfaction anytime he encountered it.
I don't know much about Dunning-Krueger, but I think that may also have something to do with it.
Anyway, I'm sure there are people like me here, and I advise them to drop it right now. It will alienate everyone you conversate with, and the only people you'll make friends with will either be too stupid to realise they can do better than some psychologically-abusive asshole, or they'll be human vomit like you.

>>10001303
do you got a muscular build? on your body? describe yourself physically without getting into too much detail

>>10001311
im asking cus you sayed that shit about douchebag

>>10001202
iktf but I'm not sure about what were you trying to convey with this post

>>10001073
No, but I'm a huge snob.

>>10001328
his power level

>>10001202
why dont you say drugs instead of enthoegens? weirdo

Yes, but only ironically.

>>10001311
>>10001317
overweight, but with an alright amount of muscle
when I say "douchebag", I don't mean "jock bully"
I'm not that intimidating, just obnoxious

>>10001239
>>10001303
Almost literally me but, if I'm allowed to be fair with myself, I think I'm not as much of an asshole as you, mainly because I started treating my mental illness desu
Good luck

Do you have anything to justify your pretentiousness?

>>10001225
>Niles: Are you saying I'm pretentious?!

>Daphne: You'd eat a worm if it had a French name!

Who was in the wrong here?

>>10001361
The fact that I'm really not pretentius and know how limited I actually am, the problem is that everyone are literally turbo plebs, and is not really their fault, is the shitty education system
I just avoid talking about anything 90% of the time

>>10001358
>mental illness
what mental illness is it? maybe I have it too?

>>10001383
Bipolar

>>10001401
fuck

>>10001202
>But hey, not like 99% of humans on earth should understand what it is like to loose your fucking mind anymore, huh?
the human race needs more of this

>>10001073
A little. If you watch Game of Thrones, I automatically think I'm above you. I never tell anyone though.

>>10001403
Is not that bad if you stick with the treatment
Of course you will not a lot of times because of some delusional reason to stop taking the pills or whatever
Or you may have nothing and you are just extreamly full of hatred and into a pathern of thought that makes impossible to see beyond your resentful ass, lsd/shrooms ego death can help with that

>>10001227
>A pretentious person would never admit he or she is pretentious

Horseshit

>>10001432
>Is not that bad if you stick with the treatment
>Of course you will not a lot of times because of some delusional reason to stop taking the pills or whatever
my fiance drives me up the wall with this shit.
"i can't take it, the pill will get stuck in my throat and burn a hole in my esophagus."
or
"doctors are just pill farmers, they don't want to treat my illness, just hook me on their drugs to make money."
And I'm just like, honey please take your medicine and stop breaking coffee cups

>>10001227
But what happens if pinnochio says "my nose is growing"?

>>10001073
no, but if you possess one iota of culture 99% of people will think that you're pretentious

>>10001443
It seems like your gf is truly cray cray
I have went a few time through the second one tho.
I would never date someone with this illness, lol

>>10001443
she's right about doctors not giving a shit and just prescribing things because it's easy, but there's really no other reliable way to deal with it
i would advise to take pills only when everything else stops working. don't give schlomo your shekels

pretentious is a stupid gaylord insult used by dum dums that reallt just says "it made me feel like blockhead".

>>10001473
Bipolar guy here
Pills dont even work if you are not in a trully shitty state. And, yeah, some docs just go and give SSRI to people who are barely "sad" or in baby's first existential crisis. But stop with the "muh" jews autism. Also you don't shit about meds and how they work for different mental problems. Basically, just kill yourself

>>10001483
there's some truth to this.
it's no coincidence that all books that teach about charisma say that in order to be charming you should make others feel smart instead of only appearing smart yourself

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>>10001178
>Most people haven't heard of Beethoven

>>10001514
>it's no coincidence that all books that teach about charisma say that in order to be charming you should make others feel smart instead of only appearing smart yourself
What does that have to do with pretension?

>>10001529
Not the guy you replied to but pretentiousness is not charming

>>10001529
pretensiousness is exagerating your intelligence, and this naturally belittles the intelligence of others.
and that ain't charismatic

>>10001465

This. Not really enjoying Marvel movies or Netflix makes you seem pretentious even if you don't make a big deal about it when the conversation comes up. It's like not going out of your way to talk about them is automatically pretentious. It's absolute bullshit.

>>10001535
Being pretensions doesn't mean you have to be a 10/10 asshole and depending on what you are being pretentious about it could certainly be charming to someone. If someone has pretensions so they can get along better with you then they are literally trying to be charming.

>>10001542
It's not about intelligence alone. It's about inflating anything to do with yourself and it does not necessarily require belittling anyone. Imagine someone trying to exaggerate their intelligence because they are trying to get along with someone smart who they really like.

>>10001542
The thing is that by just not being a dumbass some (a lot of) people will think you are exagerating your intelligence
Or by just openly talk about using your free time in something that is not regular entertainment
So just dont talk about anything with anyone, is pointless

>>10001550
I have never once encountered this sort of attitude in real life, not from my years or school or through my jobs. I've met people who are taken back by the fact I don't watch Game of Thrones for example but that is not the same thing as thinking you are pretentious.

>>10001580
>It's not about intelligence alone. It's about inflating anything to do with yourself and it does not necessarily require belittling anyone. Imagine someone trying to exaggerate their intelligence because they are trying to get along with someone smart who they really like.
I don't see that as pretentious, I just see that as dumb.

>>10001587

Maybe I was exaggerating a little. Personally I don't always know what to do when people get into a conversation about Game of Thrones or popular stuff like that. If there's room I'll ask questions but there's usually a voice in the back of my head thinking, man that is so not my cup of tea. I went to the cinema once to watch Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and I'd never even heard of it before. I asked the brother of the girl I went with if he'd seen the first film and he was like, 'Of course, I have' in a way that sounded exasperated that somebody hasn't. Still, I try and that's the main thing I'm sure.

I actually think one of the unsung things about our generation is how much more pressure there is to fit in. I'm sure a lot of the success of things like Game of Thrones and Rick and Morty comes down to people wanting to be like everyone else. In the digital world that can escalate very quickly indeed.

>>10001617

And my point there is that to some people you can seem automatically pretentious when your interests diverge from what's readily accepted as the norm. If you never talk about Game of Thrones but once in a blue moon discuss your interest in Wes Montgomery people will leave with the impression that you're trying too hard. The trick is obviously just to find like-minded people who realise that level of thinking is absurd.

>>10001595
It fits the definition of pretentious exactly.
pretentious
adjective: pretentious

attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.

>>10001617
It sounds more like you are neurotic rather than people thinking you are pretensions.

>I actually think one of the unsung things about our generation is how much more pressure there is to fit in.
That's not a modern thing, that's just how humans work.

>>10001637
Neurotic is even more of a buzzword than pretentious
But yeah I feel the same as that anon and I'm the mentally ill poster

>>10001631
Someone, somewhere thinking you are pretensions for not like Marvel movies is not the same thing as "if you possess one iota of culture 99% of people will think that you're pretentious" which is the quote that started this whole chain. Very, very few people would give even the slightest shit that you don't like something popular and like less or unpopular things. You are not anywhere near as important to other people asides from close friends and family as you think you are.

>>10001660
This
I get that you guys can get paranoid about this dumb shit but try to remember what this anon is saying, and that "normies" and "pleb/patrician" are literal memes from an amazonian monkey-roleplaying-chaman ceremony board created by mentally ill NEETs to get a laff

>>10001637

>It sounds more like you are neurotic rather than people thinking you are pretensions.

Fair comment. I just don't like how much hard-work it is trying to have conversations about stuff that people don't know about. Call that insecurity if you want. If I do there's usually a lot of me talking and a lot of silence on the other end. Not really a good conversation to have at all.

The last girl I dated said she hated me doing that as she thought I was belittling her, which obviously I wasn't. It's made me a bit wary and I'm probably more insecure because of it.

>>10001073
i feel i need to get more pretentious to protect myself. i always was generous with what i like and what i know, always ready to listen to someone who is interested in something and care to share; maybe i will get on board their views, values, maybe not and all is fine. its a way to create culture , the way i see it. That said i really hate it when my interlocutor don't return me the same courtesy : barely illiterate machomen will notice that when he is talking to you about his life, what he does , what he thinks is the best actions and so on and you don't try to cut him off to ridicule him, crush him, antagonize him to prove you are better then he will try to puff up gradually up to the point where he will straight up antagonize you and be insulting. "you don't belong here" "i own this land and my lifestyle is the only one of any worth".

there is a culture war going on and its time to get pretentious, just fucking detonate the nukes on those anti-culture anti intellectual barely literate fucking asshole hicks fuuuuuuuuuuuu

actually i think i will just avoid them and work on my projects. hopefully i will help to build a proper culture that will fucking starve them off.

I can just about tone it down in public.

>>10001843
I'm a tradesman for whom outside of my profession have pretty much nothing in common with the hundreds of people I interact with yearly but we get along great. Being friendly and getting along with people has little to do with common interests. Sure for actual friends you need something in common whether that be interests, similar or complementing personalities etc but you don't need that for acquaintances and randoms. It sounds like you are really socially awkward.

>I just don't like how much hard-work it is trying to have conversations about stuff that people don't know about.
Don't. Don't tell people about shit they aren't interested in. It's not difficult talking to people with no interests similar to you. It should be obvious if someone actually wants to hear about something you like that they know nothing about. Then and only then do you talk about that sort of stuff.

>>10001891
That's not how pretension works. Being pretentious is making yourself appear superior to other people. Pretension is about deception. If you hide it you aren't trying to deceive anyone and so can't be pretentious.

>>10002072
What do you talk about? Problem is I don't know ANYTHING that's outside of my field of interest. Not even the most popular movies, or singers.

>>10002078
Learn it then. It's a few hours work, for goodness sake.

Everyone is pretentious. Lit is just not faking that they're not.

>>10001483
This is frequently true.

It's the crabs in a bucket mentality, "If I can't be smart I'm gonna make sure you feel bad about it!"

I know people who were smart in school but because of this attitude from their peers they did nothing with their intelligence because hey at least they are a "chill guy", who doesn't try too hard or some stupid shit.

Challenging yourself is good for you and broadens your mind in the long run. Apathy is like death and should be avoided at all costs.

>>10002078
Getting on with someone isn't really something that can be taught, especially through text. I used to be a little awkward when I was a teenager then in three months of working at a busy cafe I got really good at making a fun enjoyable conversation where the other person would laugh or smile that would last only 20 seconds. It's not about the topics, it's about the attitude.
A good way to practice is that whenever you go and buy anything from any store do your best to strike up a conversation with the person at the till that goes beyond the usual been busy and nice weather out there shit. Starting with a compliment usually works. Within a couple of seconds of looking at someone you will often notice something that's different. They might have a necklace on, or weird shoes, they might have an accent etc. Complimenting them on it give you an instant topic to talk about. But really it's just something you have to do and do a lot before it really starts to click. You will feel really awkward at first but it goes away when you get used to striking up conversations with people you don't know. Just remember if it goes badly it doesn't matter, that person a the supermarket isn't going to remember you. There are no consequences for failing.

>>10001073
I guess. I like to be seen by other people as being smart or "cultured." Though I wouldn't express this in conversation, I often do think of myself as superior to other people for liking more highbrow art, literature, etc. Still, I'm quite socially anxious and have a fear of being disliked or ridiculed, so I try not to say anything that would lead others to believe I'm pretentious. But often I get nervous and it becomes difficult to find things to talk about with people who don't share my same interests.

>>10002169
Much appreciated. If you got anything more or would like to go in detail, I'm all ears.

>>10002186
Different things work for different people. You need to find what works best for you. I find that the ability to pick up instant fun conversations also is really good for friendships and relationships. Going back to what you were saying about your girlfriend, most of the conversations you spend with people who you interact with a lot aren't really about anything important. Most of the time it's more about just having fun. Your gf (and for the most part your friends as well) probably most of the time doesn't really care what you guys are talking about, she just wants to have fun with you, the conversation is a means to that end. If you can make strangers have a good time in 20 seconds when you know nothing about them it gives you the skills to be able to say or do something that would make your partner smile.

It's difficult to not appear pretentious nowadays when discussing anything. I mentioned Guernica is a conversation with some people and when they all just looked at me confused I couldn't hold in my level of shock of not knowing something so damn basic. They probably all hate me. I got ostracized for getting angry at a friend for not knowing the capital of Iraq, aside from it being historically important for over a thousand years we literally invaded the fucking country in our lifetime. I live in the Bay Area and attend a UC around here, I would have expected this knowledge to be normal around here. The only person I can show my power level without being pretentious is with my brother, hes not into all that stuff but is a social genius, we learn from each other because we know each others strengths and weaknesses

>>10002332
typing on phone

>>10002332
>I couldn't hold in my level of shock of not knowing something so damn basic
>I got ostracized for getting angry at a friend for not knowing the capital of Iraq
>It's difficult to not appear pretentious nowadays
Mentioning things that people don't know doesn't make you look pretentious, you acting like an asshole about it does.

>>10002362
Is he supposed to be loving and caring when a grown ass man cant even figure out shit that wouldn't even be acceptable for a schoolchild to not know? This isn't even 'cultured' knowledge, this is basic information about the world around you. We should be acting like assholes to these people so discourage the acceptance of such ignorance, it's pathetic. And he says he goes to a UC, these are kids attending university not a dirt poor third worlder who doesn't know how to read

>>10002391
Then don't complain about how hard it is to not appear pretentious then.

>>10002391
>Is he supposed to be loving and caring when a grown ass man cant even figure out shit that wouldn't even be acceptable for a schoolchild to not know
So not being an asshole is loving and caring? That's not how human interactions work.

>We should be acting like assholes to these people so discourage the acceptance of such ignorance, it's pathetic
Except it doesn't accomplish that at all. Being so confrontational closes them off from you. So you aren't even accomplishing anything. You are just being a dick.

>>10002400
Being pretentious is looking down at others for not participating in some kind of 'high culture' not being angry at college students not knowing the capital of a country your own country went to war with for 10+ years while you were alive in the 21st century.

>>10002332
I have a phd and am a docent at a uni. I don't know what the capital of fucking Iraq is, and even if you told me I wouldn't remember it. You're pretentious because you assume people must care about the same things you care about.

>>10002407
You are being a dick if you wish for everyone around you to hold their tongue on your blatant ignorance. It's like walking into a conversation with your dick out and getting angry at people telling you to pull your pants up. It's so damn retarded you start to hinder other people's enjoyment. You know how its kind of awkward interacting with mentally disabled people? Now imagine having to do that with someone attending university with a perfectly healthy brain

>>10002409
>Being pretentious is looking down at others for not participating in some kind of 'high culture'
That is not the definition of pretentious. >>10001637
That is the definition of pretentious.

Anyway it doesn't matter because we are talking about perceived pretension. Acting like a huge dick because someone doesn't know something makes you look pretentious regardless of weather or not you are. And if you feel like you want to act like a dick when someone doesn't know one of these basic bits of information you should not also get to complain about how hard it is to not look pretentious when you are doing it to yourself.

>>10002414
>I don't know what the capital of fucking Iraq is, and even if you told me I wouldn't remember it

Then you are an idiot, plain and simple

>You're pretentious because you assume people must care about the same things you care about.

Care about the same things? Our country fucking went to war in the city for 10 years, are you kidding me? 90% of all geopolitical problems occuring in the world stems from it, fuck off

>>10002429
Where do we draw the line? How far down the rabbit hole must our 'acceptance' of peoples willful ignorance go?

>>10001073

Yes, but I'm self-aware and have a sense of humour about it

>>10002423
>being a spastic instead of an educator
Loser.

>>10002434
>Our country fucking went to war in the city for 10 years
>You must be American
God you are so fucking stupid. I can't even get over how dumb you must be to assume that someone is American for no reason. Fuck off and die.
There we go, I did what you wanted. I was a huge dick to a really stupid person just like you wanted me to be.

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>>10001461

>>10002449
>Where do we draw the line?
As I said before acting like a dick doesn't change anything so you are just acting like a dick for the sake of it.

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I think so, but we're not nearly as bad as /r/books. Those fucking lilliputians just jerk each other off about the sam list of like 10 books, (Count of Monte Cristo anyone?) and the rest is just circlejerking about how smart and cultured they are for being literate. And sure, we do that too, but at least we actually discuss books sometimes.

>>10001483

Gaylord is an Anglo-Norman given name from the Old French "Gaillard" meaning "Gay Lord"

>>10002453
Yea let me educate every idiot(ATTENDING UNIVERSITY) in the world what 1+1 is and how to find the USA on a map, I'm such a terrible person for not wanting to subject myself to that. Go ahead and do it yourself anon, nobody's stopping you

>>10001348
A lot of drugs do not generate the divine within.

>>10002460
Where are you from anon?

>>10002434
>Our country fucking went to war
Not my country, and even if it was my country I still wouldn't care about it. It's in no way connected to my hobbies, my field or my research. I cannot benefit from knowing about it, and I don't particularly feel joy from talking about it either.

>90% of all geopolitical problems occuring in the world stems from it
I don't care about any of that either. Grow up and realize that you're in charge of what you find important and that different people with different histories will have different reasoning for their value system.

>>10002487
That's fine, just don't get angry when people don't take you seriously

>>10002478
>my hyperbole justifies my faggotry
No, you don't have to educate everyone. But it's very easy to explain simple details in the midst of coversation. But what would you know? You presently lack any conversational ability and opt to scorn rather than foster awareness. In a way you might even enjoy lording your perceived highness over people.

Tell me about your mother

>>10002496
It's not about educating or not, it's possessing the basic knowledge needed for having any conversation deeper than "Hi, how are you". If you dont have it, I'm not gonna waste my time. These common idiots are open to you anon, there's millions of them just waiting for you to stop at every sentence to go on a tangent about something you would be surprised a 10 year old doesn't know. Knock youself out

>>10002495
People should not be taking me seriously if for some reason I am talking about Iraq, which never happens. If someone is talking politics without having basic knowledge of it, whatever it be, then sure, go ahead and don't take them seriously. However, not caring about your particular field of interest is not reason enough to dismiss him as a whole.

>>10001461
Depends on whether (1) pinnochio's nose is growing as he says "my nose is growing" or (2) his nose is not growing as he says "my nose is growing." In case (1), he is telling the truth, so the already-growing nose stops growing. In case (2), he is lying, and his nose starts to grow. Not a paradox, but good try my guy.

>>10002482
New Zealand.

>>10002523
It's beyond a 'particular field of interest' it's being aware of the world around you at the most basic level. It's also a jumping off point of ignorance. You dont know the capital of Iraq? Than you dont know anything about the middle east, politics, world history, Islam, energy, war, terrorism, your countries current place in the world(99% chance you live in a country that invaded Iraq)...I could go on forever. Like I said, it's like not knowing what 1+1 is in math. If you don't know that how can I expect you to know any other concept in existence that uses math?

>>10002495
People won't take you seriously if you are a dick either. In fact people will probably take you less seriously if you are a dick so if the goal is for people to take you seriously it is better to not be a dick who doesn't know the capital of Iraq than the inverse.

>>10001073
Being isolated I cannot be pretentious on my lonesome. Right?

>>10001073
I'm usually the person defending genre fiction/plot-driven fiction so probably not.

>>10002550
>People won't take you seriously if you are a dick

lmao where did you get this from? There are many powerful dicks currently and throughout history that were taken very seriously

/lit/'s obsession with not sounding pretentious is sad. I say what I want and I speak the truth about myself. I namedrop when necessary and sometimes to impress.

I have been called pretentious or an e/lit/ist a few times, but it doesn't really bother anyone seriously. Those that are upset by it I simply do not bother with. In fact, rather than annoying people, it seems to have some kind of endearing effect, and its brutality makes people laugh a good deal.

You people are a bunch of wimps.

>>10002548
>You dont know the capital of Iraq? Than you dont know anything about the middle east
>Than you dont
>Than
Everything you said that came after that is wrong. There is no reason to conflate all of that extensive knowledge with knowing the tidbit of the capital of Iraq. Also because you want me to be a dick to stupid people
>terrorism only has to do with the middle east
>your country which has nothing to do at all with the middle east is deeply related to knowing Iraq's capital
I could do that to the rest but I can't be bothered. Also bait and sage.

>>10002565
>You people are a bunch of wimps.

seriously, so scared of being a social outcast they subject themselves to the words and opinions of idiots with a strained smile on their faces

>>10002570
>this is the level of discourse on this board
lmao whatever you say bud

>>10002564
Exceptions that prove the rule. That and most important people through history inherited their power so being a dick doesn't have much to do with it.Although being a dick does have assertiveness which is useful but since you can uncouple that from being a dick it's sort of pointless.
Also I'm talking about most people, not your king Henrys of the world. Being a dick in a job interview doesn't really go down well.

>>10001073
nowadays saying that you enjoyed Ulysses here on /lit/ is a flag that you are pretentious, so, yes.

>>10002548
>It's beyond a 'particular field of interest' it's being aware of the world around you at the most basic level
What you take to be the most basic level depends on your experience of the world, on what you find important, it's not universally valid. To a person that thinks "life is music" that basic level could be knowing all the popular songs. How do you disprove(!) this view? You can't, because it's just a fucking view, you can't do anything but call it stupid, and he can call you same in return. Views can be so different that someone can always have a view that exempts your premise, so you will never be able to disprove him without just concluding only your own premise, within your premise.

>>10002605

?

You just prove demonstrate his premise is retarded

>>10002605
>being aware of the world around you at the most basic level


Are you just ignoring this sentence? It's the same level of knowledge as pointing out where you live on a world map, having your own perspective on what's important in life does not exempt someone from not understanding their place on earth and the perspective of billions of other people. And once again, nobody is forcing you to know this but do not be angry when someone laughs in your face and treats you like an idiot

>>10002611
>>10002615
Go ahead imbeciles, prove "I don't care about politics" wrong.

>>10001225
Frasier is the most /lit/ show ever

>>10002623
>knowing 2nd grade geography is politics
>not remembering a name repeated on every form of media in all western countries for 20 years
>argues for not being an idiot

>>10002632
So you can't formally do it? Go ahead and try please.

>>10002623
>not knowing basic world history
>"I don't care about politics"

>>10002634
>argue this point I falsely attributed to your comment to avoid actually addressing any of your points

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>>10001073
pretension would imply that we interact with real people. we dont.

>>10002615
>It's the same level of knowledge as pointing out where you live on a world map
Knowing where you are on a map is not the same as knowing that Baghdad is the capital of Iraq. You used Guernica as an example. If someone is born into a family that doesn't appreciate art, doesn't show any interest in it, goes to a poor school that doesn't focus on the arts, has no friends that are interested in art and then goes into a job that has nothing to do with art it's no surprising they probably won't know what Guernica is. You assume it as a basic element of information only because it's basic to you. This sort of little factoid is a terrible way of judging people because everyone is deficient in hundreds of thousands of things because it is literally impossible to know them all and you would have no way of learning about/being aware of so many of them. To you Guernica is basic, to an Italian knowing the names of most Verdi opera might be basic, to someone who grew up in a family that loves gardening knowing some different plant types might be basic.
This is all different from things like knowing where your country is on a map or being able to do a reasonable amount of math. If you feel justified to be a dick about Guernica then you are giving everyone else the right to be a dick to you.

>>10001073
I read exactly 123 continental theory books

>>10002635
>>10002642
Are you missing my point on purpose? You can't formally prove it because I am simply going to be rejecting your premise because our different views on what's important are dependent ON THAT PREMISE. That means that what you are arguing is not important per se. Therefore, there is no ground for argumentation. Importance of something is a matter of opinion, and you can't disprove a fucking opinion. There are no facts about value of things, we make up values ourselves. Are you teenagers?

>>10001413
Speaking of this, it blew my mind when I noticed this one well known young professor at my university wearing a Game of Thrones shirt. I assume he's a pleb and probably only knows a lot about his area of expertise (namely generative grammar).

In recent years I've become convinced that the difference in intelligence between an ordinary educated individual and "world class" geniuses and academics is much slimmer than you might think. A lot of it has to do with passion, commitment, and persistence. There are a few outliers who seem to display truly excessive and transcendental levels of intelligence like Kierkegaard, Wittgenstein (peace be upon him), Alfred Tarski, and Vladimir Voevodsky, but most intellectually are just highly smart people that put in a lot of work, not quasi-mythological beings.

>>10002649
>Knowing where you are on a map is not the same as knowing that Baghdad is the capital of Iraq

It is, it implies basic geographic knowledge which includes knowing where Iraq is. And this is ignoring all the geopolitical and historical connections with it. You are literally arguing for all those dumb Americans on European talk shows who cant point out anything on a map

>You used Guernica as an example. If someone is born into a family that doesn't appreciate art, doesn't show any interest in it, goes to a poor school that doesn't focus on the arts, has no friends that are interested in art and then goes into a job that has nothing to do with art it's no surprising they probably won't know what Guernica is. You assume it as a basic element of information only because it's basic to you.

I got angry at university students not knowing what guernica is, if a kid from Columbia working in a factory doesn't know what it is thats fine, its not expected from him. I got angry because basic cultural knowledge(literally just being able to identify it, they don't know need to really know anything deep) is not expected to from university students.

>To you Guernica is basic, to an Italian knowing the names of most Verdi opera might be basic, to someone who grew up in a family that loves gardening knowing some different plant types might be basic.

Guernica can be argued as being one of the most famous paintings of all time. It's beyond operas and different types of plants. I used the arithmetic example because it's the equivalent of not knowing 1+1 in STEM for anything that has to do with any artistic medium. I honestly though lit was beyond the this. I remember getting extreme downvotes and hate comments from calling out posters on reddit thinking Picasso lived in the 17th century

>>10002647
Is this Pokeman?

>>10002667
>"Are you teenagers?"
>uses relativism for his argument when it can be used as an argument for literally everything in existence
>also ignores his previous assertion after realizing how retarded it makes him sound

how is it politics anon? I say it isn't politics because my premise rejects it

>>10002706
Go ahead and expand every single one of your points, and I promise I will prove(!) you wrong. It seems however that you are not capable of writing full sentences. Quite ironic for someone who is trying to argue that his friend is idiotic.

>>10001073
Heh, I think you can do a neat spin-off on Descartes with this. I hate the word 'pretentious', therefore I am (pretentious). Feel free to use that in the future to surprise a normie, yeah.

File: 1504380774479.jpg (225KB, 682x600px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 682x600px

>>10002725
>backpedaling this far

>>10002748
I stand by every single thing I said so far. Go ahead and put your argument into words.

>>10002763
You are being baited my man

>>10002169

I'm actually going to try the compliment tactic. I'm the anon above who talked about making smalltalk in Starbucks but it can get a bit boring just doing that. I've been thinking I need a better technique for charming people.

What kind of stuff do you say? Necklace/clothing point is a given. Maybe if a girl has long flowing hair you can say, wow nice locks goldie. With dudes, do you bother?

>>10002763
bro every comment you post is arguing against a false interpretation(that feeds your 'opinion') completely disconnected from the previous comment you just made. Everything you've said to that anon doesn't even made sense, I can't even tell if it's the same poster

I don't think so, not any more at least. I was extremely pretentious as a teenager. I have the written diary entries to prove it, too. So if I ever catch myself smoothing over how bad I was as a high schooler and college freshmen I can just read my diary entries from those years and reconfirm that I was indeed a massive shithead who had no idea what he was talking about.

>>10002781
My posts are >>10002487 >>10002523 >>10002605 >>10002667

I don't have the self-esteem to be pretentious. Plus reading books just makes me feel dumber if anything.

>>10002332

My man, this is actually pretentious. At least crack a joke if somebody doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about. Smile too. If you're smart then you're the teacher.

>>10002799
I feel pretentious telling over confident people I know nothing

>>10002781
His point is that he doesn't need to care about what you find important and that you have no objective grounds to argue about it.

>>10002794
Just let it go.

>>10002809
He's not being pretentious, he doesn't know how to contain emotions when dealing with idiots. You learn it with age.

>>10002813
woah just like socrates

Yes I'm pretentious but primarily I'm a pseudo intellectual contrarian dilettante.

>>10002830
>no objective grounds to argue about it

So just about everything people would be willing to argue that exists only in the human conscience. There wasn't one point in this whole thread where he said any of his opinions are objective, he was argueing that whether or not it is acceptable for people to lack knowledge in those areas. Pulling out 'muh relativism" is not a substitute for arguing your side

>>10002686
>It is, it implies basic geographic knowledge which includes knowing where Iraq is
Knowing where Iraq is is not the same thing as knowing what the capital is. You could even know about Baghdad the city and not know that it was the capital.

>And this is ignoring all the geopolitical and historical connections with it.
This is the thing about basic knowledge, peoples knowledge of it is basic. I know the name Timbuktu and that it was an old African city, I have no idea if it still exists and I have no idea what modern country would contain it. Someone can know both about Iraq and Baghdad and not know that the latter is the capital of the former.
>historical connections with it
Just because a city is famous doesn't mean it's going to be it's countries capital. The history of the from thousands of years ago tells you jack all about what the capital of a country that's about a hundred years old.

>geopolitical... connections
It's a single bit of relatively unimportant information among a sea of other information related to it. You could have a rough idea about the cold war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, about the Gulf war, about the Ottoamans and still not know what the capital of Iraq is.

>I got angry at university students not knowing what guernica is
Why? You could change that story I made about that kid growing up in a lower class family and make the slight change that after school he goes to study engineering and then works in an office. Again Guernica is only a basic fact to you because you have grown up in a way where it was made obvious to you. Someone else can go to uni and not have had the things happen to them to make that very particular fact known to them. Instead they grew up with their dad being a mathematician or something and for him knowing Gauss might seem so obvious that only an idiot wouldn't know.
As I said before it is impossible to know all the "basic" stuff regardless of how cultured you are. You are just taking your little subset of things you know, saying everyone should know all of them but I don't have to know any of the things I don't know because they aren't important to me.

>>10002850
cont.


>Guernica can be argued as being one of the most famous paintings of all time. It's beyond operas and different types of plants.
Asides from the fact that your post shows you know nothing about Opera (Verdi was like a combination of Beethoven to the Europeans and Washington to Americans and was probably the single most famous person in Italy during the later years of his life) and that you are assuming that non-westerners would find the image as recognisable as people in the west you are privileging painting over these other subjects for no reason. Sure let's say it is one of the most famous paintings,

> I used the arithmetic example because it's the equivalent of not knowing 1+1 in STEM for anything that has to do with any artistic medium
No it isn't. For one 1+1 is something there everyone who isn't retarded knows, even a fuck load of other species know that. That is in no way the same thing as knowing Guernica. Secondly mathematics is a system. When you learn about the system it teaches you about other things inside the system. Learning that Guernica exists is just an isolated fact. The two examples are completely different.

> I honestly though lit was beyond the this. I remember getting extreme downvotes and hate comments from calling out posters on reddit thinking Picasso lived in the 17th century
Correcting people for being wrong is fine, not a single person here has said you shouldn't do that but if you really think that because a couple of people on 4chan engaged in a rational discussion about why being a massive cunt may not be the best approach is the same as reddit's hugbox maybe you should go back there.

No. I hate myself too much to ever consider myself superior to anyone.

>>10002846
I'm arguing relativism of values.
>whether or not it is acceptable for people to lack knowledge in those areas
This is exactly why it's an important point. It's not acceptable to lack knowledge in this area only if it that area has objective value. For me, it's completely acceptable to not know the capital of Iraq or give two shits about it. Connect that to the rest of the argument now.

>>10002776
>With dudes, do you bother?
You aren't trying to become a pickup artist, you are learning how to socialise so you should bother.

>Maybe if a girl has long flowing hair you can say, wow nice locks goldie
Like I said before the point is to be able to get along with most people, not just hot chicks. This sounds like a cheesy pickup line. If you want to compliment a chick though pick something which isn't sexual (ie don't say how pretty they are etc) and look for something that most guys wouldn't think to compliment. Something as simple as I like your shoes can be good.

Compliments are just a way of starting a conversation, not the only way, and a lot of the time you will be hard pressed to think of something that is different about them to compliment. Don't feel like it's something you need to do.

>>10002776
There's this really young professor (maybe 29/30) at my school. . . totally my type and I'm pretty confident she's physically attracted to me. I probably have no real chance with her, but I'm gonna try.

Her research happens to be in an area closely related to my own interests - although, of course I'm just an undergrad. I also make sure to talk to her after every class (only twice so far).

My next step is to throw a mildly inappropriate comment at her (e.g. "that dress looks really good on you", but not in an obviously flirtatious tone). I just don't want any shitty unforeseen consequences, although I don't think anything to embarrassing could result.

If anyone has any tips or comments, that would really help. I probably have 10% chance, but I'm going for the gold (I've always had a thing for slightly older women and the Ph.D only makes he more appealing desu).

>>10002850
>Knowing where Iraq is is not the same thing as knowing what the capital is. You could even know about Baghdad the city and not know that it was the capital.

How is it possible to know Iraq and not know Baghdad? Do you know France but not know Paris? England but not London? America but not New York? Being able to know what Iraq is basically interchangeable with knowing what Baghdad is, it's the only well known place in the country. And knowing Baghdad but not Iraq? Come on man, these are just stupid excuses

>This is the thing about basic knowledge, peoples knowledge of it is basic. I know the name Timbuktu and that it was an old African city, I have no idea if it still exists and I have no idea what modern country would contain it. Someone can know both about Iraq and Baghdad and not know that the latter is the capital of the former

Historically. Bagdad is one of the most important cities in history. Knowing any history from Morocco to India from the year 600 on would lead to Bagdad, especially in the western perspective which I'm assuming most people in this thread comes from. Timbuktu was a regional power that lasted maybe 100 years as its height with almost no written records and public awarness of it. And again, this is ignoring that Iraq and Bagdad has had international presence for most of these posters existence. If you live in France you should know where Timbuktu is because the country has been in and out of the country for years

>It's a single bit of relatively unimportant information among a sea of other information related to it. You could have a rough idea about the cold war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, about the Gulf war, about the Ottoamans and still not know what the capital of Iraq is.

Impossible, this is so damn dumb I'm not even gonna address it. "I know what the French Revolution is but what's Paris?"

>>10002922
Don't think of her as a woman, think of her as human. Don't try to flirt, try to connect with another person.

>>10001073
I find it a tad insuperable that one would so much as deign to utter the calumny that I smack of pretension.

Contrariwise, au contraire I mightn't say. Certainly my dignified breeding and scholastic education may lead commoners to think I am above them, but I assure you that shant be the case.

>>10001073
Extremely. /lit/'s not even a main board for me, but I come here because it's the only place to get decent philosophy discussion that's not /pol/ shit. Those pretenses extend to some literature, cinema, animation, theology, and heritage.

I feel like the mark of my pretense is that I imagine keeping up appearances not as having friends or successes, but placing myself in exclusive environments or never wearing anything more casual than a collared polo shirt and long pants. Even if I didn't do any of that and wore tshirt and shorts like every other guy, I wouldn't be any less than I am. I know that full fucking well, but I need to "defend" myself from nobody's scorn via the illusion of class.

>>10002932
Listen, dude. The only way you can argue your way out is by shifting your argument to "knowing this has value for Western civilization", and then claiming that knowing it means being civilized.

>>10002936
I'm not an autist. I know how to interact with women. I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips specifically relevant to this context, especially if they come from personal experience.

E.g. is it okay if I talk to her about her research subject? Like I'm genuinely interested, but don't want to too autistically pursue the same point. Is it cool if I stop by during office hours to engage in a mixture of casual conversation and academic questions? I suppose these are very specific, but if anyone has a story of there own or other personal experience they could share, that would be awesome (even if your attempts ended in failure).

>>10002856
>Asides from the fact that your post shows you know nothing about Opera (Verdi was like a combination of Beethoven to the Europeans and Washington to Americans and was probably the single most famous person in Italy during the later years of his life) and that you are assuming that non-westerners would find the image as recognisable as people in the west you are privileging painting over these other subjects for no reason. Sure let's say it is one of the most famous paintings,

I know who Verdi is, and I know he is nowhere near the level of international recognition of Picasso. I'm not privileging painting, I'm privileging Picasso, the same way I would privileging Beethoven or Shakespeare. Nearly every text book children use in the world that discusses some type of art in English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Italian, Russian, Arabic and Portuguese has a mentions Picasso or a picture of Guernica

>No it isn't. For one 1+1 is something there everyone who isn't retarded knows, even a fuck load of other species know that. That is in no way the same thing as knowing Guernica. Secondly mathematics is a system. When you learn about the system it teaches you about other things inside the system. Learning that Guernica exists is just an isolated fact. The two examples are completely different.

When it comes to art knowledgebhai in the western tradition not knowing Guernica is something everyone who isn't retarded knows, that's exactly my point. Maybe not as basic as 1+1 but it is as basic as being able to recognize the what the plus, subtraction and multiplication symbol means.

>>10001083
>Having a large ego
>A good thing
Kek

>>10002958
lmao this whole fucking argument came from me being angry at American college kids not knowing this stuff. you are the ones who started arguing about international perspectives and relativism

>>10002968
I love talking about my own research, but up to a point that I'm comfortable talking about it. I don't want to have to defend my thesis to you, just go read the damn paper again. Instead, talk about implications of her research. What can you add on to it? Does it have any consequences to x? That's going to be new to her, and she's probably also going to like it because you are valuing what she did

One of the main markers of pretentiousness is a preoccupation with coming off as pretentious.

It's like the guilty dog who tries to bury in the dirt the steak bone it stole off the table. Pretentious people are always wondering what other people are thinking about them rather than getting down to the matter itself.

Being pretentious is one thing, but do you LOOK pretentious?

>>10002890

Good advice. TY.

>>10002922

I'd say "that's a really nice dress" or something instead. A compliment that doesn't sound like you're thinking about them physically.

What the other dude said about connecting with people as humans is an apt point. I guess we all naturally think with our dicks but I know I've had way more success with women when I've gone out of my way to charm everybody else first and them last.

>>10002979
Spooked

>>10002667

>There are no facts about value of things, we make up values ourselves

Objectively wrong.

>>10002932
>How is it possible to know Iraq and not know Baghdad?
Iraq is a country that is been in the world headlights for a couple of decades. It is a very well known non-Western country. You don't need to know anything about history or geopolitics to know about Iraq. You will here it mentioned a million more times than Baghdad.
Now I'm going to have to get snarky because it's obvious you aren't reading my posts properly. I never said anything about not knowing Baghdad exists, I said not knowing it was the capital. As I said before (which you also must not have read because it already addressed the very point you are bringing up) knowing that Baghdad was a powerful ancient city doesn't tell you anything about what the capital is of a country that is about a hundred years old. Most of the points you make about why people are dumb to not know it is the capital is based on its history.
If you took an Alien, taught them a little bit of Greek history and asked them what the capital of modern Greece is who knows what they would pick, Sparta, Athens, Thebes.

>Timbuktu was a regional power that lasted maybe 100 years as its height
Timbuktu was only an example. Let me pick a different one.
Most people in the west know jack shit about Chinese history, they couldn't name any of the old capitals, any of the emperors, probably not even a single dynasty in spite of it being one of the worlds oldest, most advanced and influential civilisations. Can I be a cunt to you because you (probably) can't name all the dynasties?
Most western people don't know these things because it's incredibly far removed from their own history and has zero impact on the way they live their lives. It's something you would need to learn about. And China is so much more important than Baghdad.

>"I know what the French Revolution is but what's Paris?"
France and Paris are not equal in terms of knowledge as Iraq and Baghdad to a western audience. Only a couple of posts down from here say you were writing about an America setting. Do you really believe American's know the same about Iraq and France?

Also what you said made no sense as a response to what you were quoting. Knowing a little bit about the Ottomans can come from cultural osmosis, and you might have stumbled upon an article in a newspaper talking about the quiet struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and because you are talking about American it wouldn't be surprising if someone knew a couple of things about the gulf war. There is nothing inconsistent which having stumbled upon a few isolated facts and not knowing more isolated facts.

>>10002979
>not being confident in your own ability
i'm embarrassed for you.

>>10002977
>I'm privileging Picasso
Picasso is not Guernica. I bet most people have never seen a reproduction of a single Picasso painting that they knew was a Picasso. You having passing references to his name in many tv shows. Picasso's name is widespread and in the mainstream, not necessarily his art.

>Nearly every text book children use in the world that discusses some type of art in English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Italian, Russian, Arabic and Portuguese has a mentions Picasso or a picture of Guernica
And nearly every book that discusses the history of economists will mention Adam Smith.
Most people have never read a single book on art. Most people have never been to an art gallery. I only learned about Guernica when I was 20 and I only learned about it then because that was the first time I had ever been interested in western visual art. I've spent my whole life with classical music and history and literature yet in all of those other things nowhere was a single mention of Guernica. Guernica is a fairly basic thing in the western art world but the art world is not big in the west. For classical music you have Beethoven, Mozart, maybe Bach. Anything beyond that is pretty obscure for most people. You know a fair bit about cultural things, far beyond the norm, you are overestimating what a normal knowledge is on almost any subject, close to nothing.
I bet if you went around and asked a bunch of people, even university students (provided you didn't camp out by the art areas) if they knew what Guernica was you would have a reasonable number of people who wouldn't.

>>10001073
As a generalization, the real deal is humble. The people who get caught up in appearances are for the most part phonies. This goes for just about everything.