>I'm a girl and I want to be a boy ok here are some hormones,

>>8831759
We need to make steroids widely used by cis men so trans women pass better by comparison.

>>8831772
Hey where can I see your survey results?

These aren't performance enhancing drugs, I identify as a megaman and they help me be mega.

>>8831759
>Hormones and their blockers will never be OTC purchasable to let people do what they want with their bodies with no hoops to jump through.
;_;

>>8831798
We need to deregulate the steroid industry.

>>8831789
surveyanon.wordpress.com/my-surveys

There should be a free market in hormones. There, problem solved. Actually there is a big underground market so there's not much stopping both trannies and bodybuilders from self-medicating. And the more underground sources there are for steroids, the more there are for trans men, and vice versa. And if you really need a doctor's prescription for your TRT, you can probably find an 'anti-aging' clinic which will provide it depending on your circumstances. There's no reason to be at each other's throats.

>>8831759
Yeah, drug laws make no sense. Testosterone is heavily regulated, yet we don't even bother to scrub estrogen in water treatment plants. Dumb laws got passed because of the misconception that testosterone = angry, and now we're stuck with them because political inertia.

>>8831827
Oh I thought you had some surveys from /lgbt/ or was it all just from reddit?

>>8831759
There are 'male enhancement clinics' all over where i love whose sole purpose is to serve up test to anyone who walks through the door. Theh advertise on the radio all day. Easy as fuck to get test injections as a dude.

>>8831922
I had some but they're tiny and not as important. Sorry.

>>8831922
surveyanon doesn't like the results so she throws them out

>>8831922
Those ones don't tell me what I want to hear so I throw them out.

>>8831759
not an issue, everyone still roids
from wellfare nigs in a ghetto gym to all those hollywood stars who need to gain quicky for an action movie role

>>8831971
you need to be low test to get legit TRT tho

>>8831759
There are a lot of differences between taking testosterone and injecting HGH into your delicious man butt anon

>>8831759
I know this is bait but you gotta realize that transmen on HRT will only ever really get to average male T levels (between about 14 and 20)
Whereas as men who want to take steroid to become a bodybuilder are gonna have potentially dangerous levels of T in their body and most doctor don't want to be held accountable for that.

>>8832187
Overloading on Test drastically increases the chances for ball/prostate cancer as well. Steroid anons plz don't sacrifice your beautiful phalluses for gains

>>8832194
and ftms don't have balls and prostates!

>>8831759
>It's time to acknowledge LGBT privilege
If you want to see real LGBT privilege look at preferential scholarships, admissions, job opportunities, etc.

Cis men make their own T, trans men gotta get store bought.

>>8832251
Please show me anything that is actually attainable besides PFLAG. Which literally everyone in the country applies to

>>8831759
That's actually not the case. It depends on the drug laws of where you live but you can't take medication without diagnosis unless it's over the counter. The issue is that many trannies avoid diagnosis and try to get around it with drug distribution loop holes.

The other problem is that estrogen is considered highly tolerable in women on a basic level of existing in the bloodstream. Testosterone has a different characterization and more emphasis on negative side effects as well as having a specific sports focus. Don't fuck with sports is what they're saying.

>>8832251
Scholarships are usually private funds. Tell people how they can choose to spend their own money.

Admissions aren't statistically significant even if you admit all LGBT applicants the majority of the 30k applicants that didn't get in will still be cis white hetero.

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>>8831759
Well said mate. The world is a leftist cuckold shithole now. And they're STILL complaining.

>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14365362_The_successful_treatment_of_a_gender_dysphoric_patient_with_Pimozide

>>8832298
>Admissions aren't statistically significant even if you admit all LGBT applicants the majority of the 30k applicants that didn't get in will still be cis white hetero.

>>8832306
Out of curiosity would would be better about a world that used non left alternatives?

>limited/no speech rights
>unequal voting rights
>getting in the way of people's freedom and choices
>forcing people to have incompatible relationships
>unfulfilling lives for minorities
>fewer rights if you're not straight white cis hetero male
>people don't reach their full potential
>favoritism to a majority group even if they under perform
>minimal healthcare gaurantee
>unchecked capitalism, multiple successive recessions
>people not being able to get services wherever they are
>colleges are private institutes for the elites

I'm not seeing how that would be a better alternative. I bet you can find some failed east European countries like that.

>>8831798
That's pretty cyb desu

>>8832338
It wouldn't be like that but even if it was it would be better than what the left is doing irl.

>>8832374
It would be like that because the opposite of most of those things is left wing. Guaranteed rights of citizens, voting rights, freedom of speech, and protections against monopolies are all left wing policies.

Most of the time you guys post a rant you're not even ranting about leftist policies you're ranting about a right wing democrat or a fictitious enemy at the gates.

>>8832661
>left = good
>right = bad

>>8832667
Left is left wing policies and most policies associated with modern civil society are rooted in left wing policies and arguments. A right wing argument is that inherently nobody is born with a right to anything. Rights should not be guaranteed because people are always at the mercy of those with power. The left wing argument is that people have unalienable guaranteed equal rights. The right wing counter argument is that they do not have guaranteed rights, they can only have rights at the pleasure of those with power.

As far as rights are concerned that's the essential form of the debate. Just change the degree of emphasis in pro or anti rights, and change the rights that are under question.

In most civilized countries the right has had to make many many concessions to the left and adopt left wing policies as normalized and good. It's entirely reasonable to think that in the future people will also see current left wing issues as simply good rather than politically right or left.

In a way your silly characterization is an admission that leftist policies have been historically very good.

>>8832667
>Literally all the arguments the cuck left has.

>>8831759
well as I understand it, a woman taking them to be more like a man is just trying to get up to the level of an average man, whereas a bodybuilder taking them is trying to greatly exceed the level of an average man, and that exceeding is what causes problems

>>8831971
Where fucking please I need this. Do you need insurance or id or anything?

>>8831772
if stacy would stop contaminating the water supply with her estrogen tainted piss, that wouldnt be an issue.

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Test and Estro are both safe substances that naturally occur in the body, you cannot overdose on them their mechanism of action is through binding to specialized receptors once all of the receptors are saturated the hormones essentially are excreted with no effect.

Acute death from Test is literally not possible if it is used as directed, people that die from the effects of Test typically die from atherosclerosis caused by years of elevated cholesterol levels and cholesterol imbalance; or when the left ventricle of the heart becomes enlarged and hardened and cannot pump correctly anymore. This shit takes DECADES to happen and what typically happens is you lose about 5-10yrs off of your natural lifespan. Acute death from Estrogen is slightly different it does thicken your blood and there is a clotting risk in people that are genetically predisposed to blood clots, blood clots are typically not dangerous however if a clot travels to your lungs its called a pulmonary embolism and left untreated that can do anything from just be painful and go away within a week or two to kill you within minutes. Estrogen is also known to accelerate the growth of certain types of cancer cells.

Test and Estro again are safe substances, there are risks associated with their usage but that is true of all substances even Aspirin. In fact outside of EU, NA, and AUS/NZ you can purchase Test and Estro OTC at pretty much any corner pharmacy dirt cheap just like you can Aspirin. Most of the myths and fear spread around self medding is just that; its misinformation and half truths in a feeble attempt to scare people into doing what they are told to do by their government overlords who in turn are told what to do by their Pharmaceutical industry overlords.

Dont forget kids marijuana is a dangerous gateway drug ! JUST SAY NO :^)

>>8831759
FtMs have oestrogen in their body naturally. The testosterone for them is medically necessary to manage their condition, and they have the amount necessary for masculinization, which is comparable to what would a healthy pair of male testes produce.

Males who have low testosterone levels do receive similar testosterone supplements.

In both cases, the drug is
- medically necessary
- used under close supervision of a doctor
- the patient takes the drug with the full knowledge of serious side effects
- the curative benefit of the drug overweighs potential side effects

In case of body builders taking testosterone to supplement the production of their - otherwise healthy - pair of testes are:
- NOT medically necessary, used for the cosmetic benefit
- NOT under the supervision of a doctor
- Patient may or may not know about potential side effects
- Side effects are DEFINITELY NOT worth the cosmetic benefit.

And we're not talking about the unfair advantage given over the competition. (Yes, in serious contests everyone dopes, it's sport.)

>>8833308
this is like the first time Carth has posted in the last week, we were starting to miss u lol

>>8833347
>FtMs have oestrogen in their body naturally

This is meaningless. Every human on Earth has oesterogen and testosterone in their body naturally. It's not about WHAT you have, it's about HOW MUCH you have.

>>8832175
You need to basically be a woman to get TRT. Doctors won't do it unless you're at female range T basically.
Foreign doctors are usually more lenient about it though since outside NA and EU testosterone isn't treated like heroin

>>8833308
>you can't overdose on test
(You)

Cis guys can also easily get testosterone prescriptions if their testes stop producing enough-- look up irritable male syndrome, among others. It's only when your body has normal testosterone levels that you can't get more, because it's cheating in sports and also potentially dangerous to have that much (normal level plus extra from drugs) in your system.

>>8831772
Are you proposing an alliance, dear anon? /fitlgbt/ for the win!

>>8833775
>/fitlgbt/
/lgbfit/

>>8833705
Irritable male syndrome not in reference to sheep or deer is pseudoscience. Humans are not deer, we are not sheep or rams or goats. These species have high fluctuations of testosterone year by year thanks to their seasonal breeding cycle. Humans don't breed seasonally. In humans, all assortment of sociocultural, seasonal, dietary and environmental factors effect hormonal swings.

This idea is pushed to peddle people who are otherwise within normal ranges of T for their age to take steroids feeding a multibillion dollar snake oil industry of bullshit stacked upon bullshit stacked upon pop authors.

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>>8831772

>>8833396
Why do you care about getting a prescription so much? Just go to one of the dozens of well-reviewed sites selling steroids within your country and order it online cheap. Doctors are just overpaid middlemen.

>>8833836
I'm a transgirl but there are definitely double standards with hormones and I think it's somewhat unfair to low T guys that doctors are so protective over it whereas cis girls get estrogen quite easily if they dip to lower female ranges

>>8833308
>Test is natural bro, it's safe

Meanwhile all steroid drugs come with big warning lists of side-effects and men die years and years earlier than women.

>It only takes 5-10 years off your lifespan

lmfao

>>8832306
lmao the pimozide thing
There was one person in 1996 with a "borderline learning disability", who, if you read the actual report, had a history of aggression and violence, and "no insight into what a sex change would entail in practice". Like gee I wonder why when the anti-psychotic worked the doctor wasn't like "my god, I've found the cure for transgenderism".
You don't know how science works, and you are easily influenced by pictures posted on the internet.

>>8834023
it's mostly because T can be used for cheating in athletics, where E cannot

>>8834270
no he just spams it in the adage that if you tell a lie often enough and insist its right ignorant people will fall for it

>>8834247
>men die years and years earlier than women.
Why would you assume that is because of testosterone? More likely it is due to a plethora of social reasons, like women choosing less stressful jobs on average, less working late hours, less heavy manual labor, less red meat, less fatty foods, less likely to smoke, less alcoholism, etc.

>>8831759
This is actually the opposite of what is the case, at least in America. We literally had three "T clinics" withing 4 miles of my house dedicated to giving testosterone to any cis male who was paranoid about their masculinity. Yet, for actual trans men who need testosterone for reasons other than media driven paranoia about virility, the nearest clinic that will service them is 30 miles away.

>>8832175
There is actually no consistent standard of what is considered "low T" used by any of these clinics, most of them use numbers like 800 ng/dl or whatever when in reality 70% of men not currently in the early phases of puberty are below 600.

Like some of the numbers I have seen be put as healthy are basically only ever normal during the most intense, early parts of male puberty.

>>8833347
How is it more medically necessary for a transexual than a bodybuilder?

Arguments could be made that body builders have personalities that make them uncomfortable being non-muscular. Essentially meaning they have a personality disorder that makes them uncomfortable being in the body they were naturally given, which can cause psychological stress.

And if they were legal and easy to attain then you could have them be done under the supervision of a doctor, the whole point of this thread is you can't have that be the case as you have to get them illegally.

>>8835082
you pretend to be male while mocking actual men for 'paranoia' about masculinity.

you've internalized the feminist hatred of men you were socialized with and mock men while at the same time demanding to be recognized as one. sad.

>>8832175
So hypothetically you could take an antigonadotropin for a week before going to a TRT clinic, get a testosterone prescription, then drop the antigonadotropin?

>>8835484
>every man needs steroids to be a man

Eat lead monkey. You're closer to the FtM then I am - and wouldn't you know it, infertile too...

>>8835082
Boo hoo, women actually get it harder for once.

>be female
>want to be male
>can't take hrt because college athlete and get tested for steroids
>can't quit sports because I'm depending on the scholarship
if only it were so easy op.

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>>8835523
>get tested for steroids
then don't take steroids. take T and be a HIGH TEST """girl"""

>>8835531
wouldn't it show up in a steroid test?

>>8835535
she can just tell them her ovaries are so masculine that they produce testosterone on their own

>>8835027
Isn't that average driven down a good deal by the number of 18-30 men who do stuff out of Jackass and die?

>>8835027
>Why would you assume that is because of testosterone?
>Proceeds to list a bunch of things men do more than women due to testosterone

>>8835538
Not by much:
>The life expectancy for a 10 year old boy is 5 years shorter than the life expectancy for a 10 year old girl.
>The life expectancy for a 40 year old man is 4 years shorter than the life expectancy for a 40 year old woman.

>>8833825
I mean I say this because my dad legitimately was diagnosed with it it because prostate cancer fucked up his levels, and if I'm remembering right his T was like 270, but okay.

>>8835544
As we all know, the emotional burden of testasterone causes men to smoke and seek comfort in fats and red meat, and alcoholism rates in men are biologically driven and in no way tied to the fact that if they go see a psychologist about their problems people call them a pussy.

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>>8835538
>>8835545
See pic. (It's not smooth because the data I was using is discretized by age.)

>>8835555
Huh. Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.

>>8835544
oh yeah, testosterone magically makes men do all of those things. i welcome your references proving that cause and effect relationship.

>>8835551
It's bizarre to me that people other than TV watching retards actually believe that the modern "mental health problems" of men are due to not being able to cry on someones shoulder.

Get some fucking perspective.

>>8835580
I'm sorry no one loves you and you don't have a shoulder to cry on. And also, apparently, about your alcoholism. I assume you attribute all of your problems to being oppressed by women because no girls will fuck you?

>>8835602
>Projecting this hard

>>8835580
want to know how i know you're female?

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>>8835484
>>8835501
I'm literally not a trans guy. I'm a trans woman, I've just had a bunch of friends (and some exes) that are trans dudes, so I know what the situation is.

>>8833668

You really can't overdose on it. At least not in the acute sense. Long term exposure to extremely elevated levels might pose some risks but doing a massive injection is literally not going to do anything. The effects of testosterone are a result of sustained exposure. It's not like you inject it and all of a sudden you turn into the hulk. Shit don't work like that (some roids do, but test isn't one of them)

>>8831759
The joke is they still kill you. We are just privileged enough to be allowed to kill ourselves.

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>>8833347
>medically necessary to manage their condition
"medically necessary" is weasel phrasing and subjective as fuck, some doctors hand out antibiotics for shit like bronchitis and opioids for "muh back". Yeah sure you can claim its "medically necessary" and not be wrong, doesnt mean the doctor isnt a greedy pharma shill retard for doing it.

>comparable to what would a healthy pair of male testes produce
Sure you arent wrong but males tend to produce anywhere from like 1200ng/ml to 300ng/ml of Test which is a HUGE motherfucking variation

>medically necessary
"Medically necessary" means literally nothing except a doctor recommended you do it, another doctor might advise against that very same treatment....hell in fact the majority of doctors might disagree with what is "medically necessary". The US and EU dont even agree on whether or not Cyproterone is safe for human consumption. Its handed out like candy in EU and not prescribed for anything in the US

>used under close supervision of a doctor
LOL no. The doctor may ask you if you are experiencing any side effects during an office visit but there is nothing "close" about doctor supervision you arent hooked up to wireless vital sign monitors or anything. A couple dozen young women drop dead every year from the side effects of estrogen in birth control. You make it seem like a doctor follows you around 24/7 waiting to resuscitate you if something goes wrong, no they ask you a checklist of questions which you can easily ask yourself.

>the patient takes the drug with the full knowledge of serious side effects
What qualifies for "full knowledge" do you have to pass a test demonstrating knowledge or does a doctor just ramble off some shit? People that self med are likely more informed than those that go the "legit" route.

When it comes to HRT doctors arent "unnecessary", but definitely optional. There is nothing they are doing in the "legit" process that a person of average intelligence cannot do themselves.