Cons and pros of HRT for a femboy

>>8794525
Accept being a gay guy.

>>8794527
Asexual is gay erasure.

>>8794527
Im not gay and imo men are disgusting. No sexual desire tpwards women.

Im considering hrt BC i have severe suicidal bdd and some degree of body dysphoria, but not enough to want to live and be treated as a girl

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>>8794525
Pros: Feminine body
Cons: Tiddies and liver death

>>8795657
I don't care about dem tiddies... but all the social problems and liver are scary asf.

>>8795657
>>8795942
As long as you don't excessively drink it's fine. I fuck my liver up a bit when drinking earlier this year, but it's all better now. Sublingual E and only oral AAs should be fine as long as you don't push your liver super hard.

>let's discuss hormones effects on the body
>gay

same conversation i had with the gender therapists.

gota talk to a doc

>>8796026
Is 2l of beer every saturday excessive? Is there a way to know if you're drinking too much if you're not doing blood tests?

>>8796035
But i'm not gay >>8794770

I'm also convicted about what i am, not that it matters because in any path i would take hrt, i'm just considering hrt effects in the social and physical life.

>>8796053
i don't know what a femboy or trans or non binary is. what i do know is how hormones work. which hormone do you want running your body and mind? E or T?

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>>8796071
I'll split this in 2 sections because i have some doubs about hrt...

>Body
I'd rather have E in my body. I like the idea of:
>Better skin, hair and smell even if a little
>Stopping MPB and body hair growth (i'm taking finasteride for the first. And i'm having problems with the second as body hair is starting to show everywhere due to late puberty)
>Female fat redistribuition(looks better), (little)possibility of hip growth(i'm 18 so i can dream...)

The con here is boob growth. I don't care about boobs physically, but it will be hard to deal with them socially. Specially when trying to hide from family and in college. I don't have access to serms...

That said, as far as i know about T effects, i dislike most of them. Body hair growth, muscles, skin, etc. They all sound terrible. Also, i'm circumcised, i feel no pleasure from penetration. I don't like anal, so having a sex drive is somewhat annoying. Instead of masturbating i could practice my hobbies.

>Mind
I still don't understand exactly the effects of E in my mind, and i have some silly views about it. I fear something like losing control, or changing what i am, something like that. Mood swings are scary and thats what makes T "comfy", knowing i have absolute control of my emotions and can stay calm and indifferent at all times (It's been years since the last time I've cried).

>>8794525
Pros: None, as transition has no long-term proven benefits.
Cons: Literally everything with HRT.

STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!

>>8794531
Lesbian is gay erasure
Heterosexual is gay erasure
Honey Nut Cheerios is gay erasure

Con: you make your brain female and are thus no longer a boy

>>8794525
Ok anon, lemme tell you right off the bat that if you go the hormones route one thing you will eventually /need/ to do is get an orchiectomy, i.e. castration. This is for a number of reasons, one is to remove the strain on your liver, another is that it will massively decrease your hormone costs since you'll no longer need an anti-androgen and can take a reduced dosage of estrogen. If you don't think you will be comfortable getting your balls removed in a couple years, then don't take hormones. Also, after you do this, you will need to take estrogen for the rest of your life to prevent osteoporosis and a couple less important shitty things. I recommend doing injections at that point. They have no liver impact, are closer to a natural ratio of estriol to estradiol, and you don't have to be on a fixed schedule taking pills every day (best reason imo). That's optional though.

If you want to get the cost of injections down, and your insurance doesn't pay all the costs, I've found a way to get the total cost down to like $8.50 a month. Get your prescription, go to GoodRX.com, type in the drug, get your drug discount coupon, and take it to Wal-Mart. It's like $44 for several months worth of estrogen. The needles and syringes you can all find in bulk on healthwarehouse.com and the alcohol wipes and bandaids you can buy in bulk on amazon.

>>8796282
I cant understand why are people so concerned with cost, your average joe spends more on food per day and on drinks on a weekend than 1 month worth of hrt
Im a neet from a poor country and me - and other poor trannies here - still manage to find like ~20-30 euro/month on hrt (it costs only marginally cheaper here)
...then I read some american lamenting about lack of insurance to buy estrtogen wile ordering pizzas every day

>>8796301
lol I wasn't lamenting about anything, although I can see why it sounded like that. I'm mostly just happy with how cheaply I can get it. When I started self-medding it cost me like $60 dollars a month, and now after switching to the more expensive injectables and adding doctor tests and checkups the cost is like $12 a month

>>8796216
Bitterhons btfo

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>>8796216

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>>8796282
But do i still need an orchi if i'm taking cypro?

E is more expensive than cypro here actually, i paid something like $50 for ~4 months worth of cypro and 1 month of E. Im considering switching to oral E instead of sublingual, which is cheaper.

Anyway, i'll do 25mg cypro. After some months i should expect to lower the dose to 12.5mg, which reduces the liver stress, right? Some say that with cypro, you can even stop taking AA's after like 3years. Idk if that's true but until then i'll be doing blood tests to know.

>>8797252
Inevitably with any AA you should be able to cut your dosages as your testes atrophy. Cypro just is particularly good at atrophying testes. Other AAs actually don't do anything within your testicles themselves.
But estrogen causes testicular atrophy so over time no matter if you choose cypro, spiro, or bica you may be able to eventually stop AAs altogether even without an orchi. But I've heard from many people on spiro and bica that it just takes way too long to be worth it.

>>8797262
>you may be able to eventually stop AAs altogether even without an orchi
Please bring proofs.

>>8797252
You'll still probably want an orchi, although it won't be a real medical concern for 5-7 years. The thing about just stopping cypro altogether is a myth, you might still be infertile, but your testosterone will start again eventually.

E is more expensive than all the other stuff I used to get as well, but you're being absolutely scammed at $50 a month for e. I realize sublingual is on the spendy side, but injections are better than sublingual and don't even cost that much. Where do you buy from?

Your cypro cost seems fine though, idk cause I don't live in europe, over in the US we use the extremely generic and inexpensive spironolactone which is like $12 for 3 months, but given the option I probably would have paid more for cypro.

Also, you have a prescription from a doctor, right? If you don't you should really get one, it'll allow you to reduce your costs quite a bit.

For reference I get ~6 months of estrogen with a 5 ml vial at 20mg/ml, and a daily dose of .2ml, which costs me $44 a vial. My dose is a little low though because my levels are weirdly and consistently high. Your dose will probably be closer to .3 ml, and that'd work out to $10.60 a month.

Here's a link as proof:
https://www.goodrx.com/estradiol-valerate?drug-name=estradiol+valerate&form=vial&dosage=5ml-of-20mg-ml&quantity=1&days_supply=&label_override=estradiol%20valerate

That probably won't apply in europe but even with the retail price of $140 you'd be paying closer to $33 a month

>>8797291
There's lots of people that don't even need AAs to begin with.
Pre-1990s this was the most common method of HRT, although they used premarin or EE.

Approximately 50% of people don't actually need AAs.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/endo/46497
>For those started on 6 mg of estradiol, 52% had sufficient testosterone suppression. Of the 31 who were not suppressed, 10 increased to the 8-mg dose and four of these patients achieved testosterone suppression.

>>8797262
>>8797298
As an addendum, he's not entirely wrong about the estrogen thing, but whether the effect is enough to just completely stop AAs with no consequence for a significant number of people is highly debatable.

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>>8797301
>>8797262
>>8797304
But isn't 6/8mg a really high dosage in my case? I was planning to take AA's + low E dosage (keep the initial 2mg dosage) to stay out of danger, but lower than a cis girl, with the intention of achieving slower feminization but being safe as masculinization would not happen anymore.

>>8797298
I mean, it was $50 for [4 months cypro + 1month E], but it's still more expensive than what you get. [2mgx28 pills] sublingual costs $18, while [2mgx30 pills] pills (the ones meant to be swallowed) costs like $15.
I'll buy them from a local pharmacy because i can't order it from another country. The waiting list in my country NHS is really extensive and i don't think i want to go through all the bureaucratic bullshit as i'm not trans nor want to involve anyone else (no social dysphoria nor desire to live as a girl, just heavy body dysphoria and body dysmorphic disorder)

But yes i'm thinking about what to do now... Even in lower dosages my liver would have problems in the long term, the idea of getting an orchi is scary not counting it would be a problem where i live.

>>8797598
Yeah the NHS is fucked, I don't blame you. In your case I'd probably just do what you planned to do. 2 mg estrogen won't cut it for dropping an AA, but at 12.5 mg you'll probably only have as much damage in a decade or two as a mild alcoholic.

Normally you need a letter of reccomendation for an orchi unless there are other medical reasons for getting it done anyway.

You always have the option of upping your e dose at a (much) later time though, so there's that to consider. Maybe just go on cypro for 4-5 years and then see how you deal with 6mg or .3 ml

>>8797677
You don't get slowly damaged over time due to using AAs. It's simply an increased probability of liver damage and it can cause interactions with any other drugs which use CYP450 enzymes
Alcohol damages your liver because it kills the cells, not because it utilizes the enzymes.

>>8798661
Are those drug interactions cumulative? I'd imagine so, right?

>>8799200
Not necessarily.
Cytochrome P450 is an entire collection of enzymes. It really depends on what the drug metabolizes into and whether it causes any sort of inflammatory action on your liver.
Simply using liver enzymes is not a risk for any damage really. But if you inhibit enzymes in the metabolic pathway it can potentially lead to risks if the parent chemical is a liver inflammatory or anything like that.

Cypro seems to cause a lot of drug interactions which can release inflammatory enzymes though. But in the studies done on it they use pretty high dosages and they of course combine things on purpose because with prostate cancer you're going to need high dosages of dutasteride, flutamide, etc.
The lowest dosage of hepatoxicity known at the moment is 100mg/day, the patient had a full recovery (it's pretty rare cypro causes irreversible liver damage). They were also taking I believe 750mg/day of flutamide and dutasteride. They were also like 80+ years old.
It's a combination of a lot of things and I highly doubt it would happen at the sub-50mg ranges. In studies using only cypro it's pretty harmless until you hit the 150mg+ ranges. In a lot of animal studies they were hitting dosages of 60mg/kg with no permanent liver damage. It's essentially the drug combinations used in cancer treatments that cause major issues because they nuke your body with drugs.

>>8794531
The person you're replying to is using homosexuality as asexual erasure.

>>8797301
>There's lots of people that don't even need AAs to begin with.
>Pre-1990s this was the most common method of HRT, although they used premarin or EE.
Aging tranny here. I started in 1990 on ethinyl estradiol, switched to patches after 1 1/2 years for safety though I didn't have any complications, then got SRS after 3 years on HRT and went to premarin because it was cheap, I got lots of free samples, and patches were annoying. I don't remember the doses I was taking except that I was down to 0.625 mg a day of premarin. I'm taking sublingual estradiol now. I never took AAs. However, I knew a couple tgirls who did take spiro.

>>8800264
As far as I am aware the downside of not using AAs was always cardiovascular risks due to higher E dosages. It wasn't because it wasn't possible, that's just a misconception. Estradiol downregulates T, just need the right dosage.

>>8800303
I didn't use AAs because I started with relatively low T, in the lower 200s I think. I was always planning to get SRS as soon as possible, and I actually had it scheduled for 2 years after starting HRT but I needed an extra year to get the money. So I never expected to stay on high E doses for very long. As I mentioned though spiro was being prescribed at the time.

>>8799818
This is very insightful, thanks anon.
Would similar hepatoxicity thresholds apply to spironolactone at doses of 200 or 100 mg?

>>8794525
>assexual
is that a-sexual or ass-sexual?

>>8800264
>tgirls
hi hon

>>8800464
Ass-exual.

>>8800469
I don't get why tgirls went out of vogue. It's so much less clunky than trans girls, and gets the point across without putting the emphasis on the trans part.

>>8799866
You're a homossexuality erasure

I recently ordered hrt planning to use until I notice any sort of breast growth I guess.
going for at least a bit more androgynous trying to be nb or something. at least less masculine

>>8794770
I have some similar feelings-
sexual desires and looking/acting masculine make me feel gross and predatory in a way I really dislike.
I thought I was just straight for a while but I'm starting to think I might be asexual because of this. my last relationship was with a girl and I saw her as a really good friend, when people asked if I was going to try and have sex with her I jokingly said yea and felt sort of dirty about afterwards. only when she made any sort of advances I felt okay about it.

[do you not worry about going infertile because of it? I like the idea of having a family someday, but I'm beginning to care less about producing sperm if it means I'll hate my body for the rest of my life]

>>8796213
I completely agree about the T effects, I've started starving myself trying to make muscles go away even though I'm already underweight as shit. I hate the body hair.. I got shaving powder and it works decent enough on my legs - I'm considering trying it on my face pretty soon. I think along with an epilator I could clear all the hair up.

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>>8797677
I think its the way to go then. Thank you and everyone who posted, hopefully i'm taking the leap saturday night.

>>8803931
Good luck anon. I'll do the same but i don't think i'll (have the willpower to) stop unless the breast growth is really serious (which i doubt...)

>My last relationship was with a girl and I saw her as a really good friend. when people asked if I was going to try and have sex with her I jokingly said yea and felt sort of dirty about afterwards. only when she made any sort of advances I felt okay about it.
Mfw i feel the same
After realizing i didn't felt any pleasure from sex with her, i've managed to find an excuse to break up. I couldn't lie to her (and to myself) anymore.

>do you not worry about going infertile because of it?
The idea of going infertile is really scary, but in my case not because i want kids, but because its unnatural if you know what i mean. I don't plan to live past 40s and i don't think i'll ever have a stable life so even if i wanted kids, it would not happen.

But you can always bank the sperm if you're scared about this situation.

>>8799866
You can't erase something that doesn't exist.


Because statistically speaking asexuals are identical to celibate sexual people, making it one of those "special snowflake" groups not worth analyzing based on empirical evidence alone, c.f. men who have sex with men but refuse to identify as homosexual or bisexual in survey. Those are cunts, not a special class.

>Whether the primary component of asexuality is behavioral (a lack of sexual behavior), desire-based (a lack of sexual desire), or identity-based (labeling oneself as “asexual”) is debatable. Indeed, even among those who identify as asexual, there is a lack of agreement regarding the degree to which an absence of sexual behavior or desire is a necessary component of asexuality (Prause and Graham 2007; Jay 2005; Westphal 2004).

>As anticipated, the prevalence of asexuality among U.S. females and males is the highest when only asexual behavior is used as the criterion... given that our sample of U.S. males and females is between the ages of 15 and 44, it is likely that some of these individuals not yet ever having sex will have sex at a later time.
>The next highest level of prevalence of asexuality was indicated when only self-identification is used, followed by the combination of behavior and self-identification. It is important, however, to reiterate that the “something else” category in the NSFG question pertaining to the identification of one’s sexuality is surely an overinclusive measure of asexuality.
"Patterns of asexuality in the United States" published in Demographic Research.

>>8794525
>assexual femboy
sounds agp

>>8796216
>STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!
I have never fapped in my life. I transitioned and that didn't change, but now that I had to get off hrt for surgery purposes I had an uncontrollable urge to fap. It's disgusting.

>>8804696
Stop spreading your shitty memes all over the board.

>>8804693
I wish there was some way to know exactly how long before you go infertile on certain medications, but I'm about the same with breasts, unless I suddenly freak out about it or something, I dont really see myself stopping until they get too big to hide.
you should consider your life later on though, I think most likely I'll be okay with growing old and all, meaning I'd have to give up any sort of androgyny, but until then I see enough time to live out my life how i want- I doubt it will feel like the end of the world when that time runs out.

>>8805627
Why do you care about fertility? Children are ugly and completely useless. And the way they are being brought to this world is too disgusting. Why are people willing to participate in such disgusting things?

>>8805627
I guess i'll change my mind later, but for now it's just impossible for me. Everyday i feel like life is over and i didn't enjoy any of it. But that's just "teenager" retardment + depression. When the hormones hit, being safer that i'll not age as a man, things will get easier to accept.

The only problem now is my parents. I'll just ignore this one.

>>8805642
I don't blame anyone that want kids tbqh. It can be either because of primal instincts of reproduction, because of the comfy idea of building a future with a lovely family, or even the sense of achieving something great as bringing a life to this world.

>>8804733
its not a meme
AGP is a serious disease

STOP FAPPING, START LIVING
TRANSITION HAS NO LONG TERM BENEFITS. DON'T TRAP YOURSELF

>>8806921
>AGP
>a disease

>>8806978
a contagious one spreaded by an anime image boards