FtMs btfo

>>8794151
testosterone confirmed poison

>>8794151
tfw even these aidans will never reach my level of non passing

>>8794171
this

>>8794151
Skrillex on the right
Me on the left

>taking T kills your verbal skills a bit but increases your visuospatial skills
Can confirm. It was actually noticeable enough to me that I went LOOKING for this info, because I knew there was a sex difference and suspected that's what was happening to me.

You win some, you lose some. Verbal skills were always my forte, so I'm still better-off than most people; just not quite as tip-top as I was before. And my drawing is better. I'm down.

The RSI thing is actually well-known, I knew that for years before I started T. I have carpal tunnel ANYWAY, so my only real concern was it getting worse. That luckily hasn't happened.

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>>8794151
>ree testosterone is going to give me male body and brain

jesus christ how horrible

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>testosterone reshapes the brain in the manner that's typically male
OMG, HOW SHOCKING! WHO WOULD EXPECT THAT?

>>8794151
god they look disgusting

>>8794151
Can we link mtf insanity to their brains being like women?

>>8794215
The point here is that most FtMs lack a male bone structure so they might get too swole for their aiden bones to handle. Men don't have issues with swoledom.

As an AMAB i'm quite introverted and not that good at talking so I guess I can blame that on T.

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>>8794317
>men don't have issues with swoledom

confirmed for never being swole

>>8794151
This is no different than experiencing rare but confirmed adverse effects of any other medication, like neuropathy from certain antibiotics or convulsions from SNRI/atypical antidepressants.

>>8794356
It's true i'm a chubby nerd lol. But if a man doesn't abuse steroids, why would being swole cause issues? AMABs don't have aiden skeletons.

>>8794317
Yes, I understood it the first time. You're also not good at reading, are you?

>>8794171
it is though, men pay a high price for it.

>>8794641
Well i'm a T damaged man so maybe not.

>>8794967
>>8794641
I've been reading since I was like 2, stuff from my parents college classes mostly. Does this make me trutrans?

>>8794151
kinda ironic that this comes from the same people who claim there's no sex dimorphism in the brain

>>8795333
> from the same people who claim there's no sex dimorphism in the brain
you are confusing us for tumblr again, /pol/
stop doing that or else i'll slap you

>there are other physical and neurological problems associated with marinating female brains and bodies in far more T

I thought TERFs didn't believe in gendered brains?

Also, if the muscles get too big for FtM skeletons on testosterone, what does that mean for MtFs?

>On the neurology front, there is a significant and growing body of literature across disciplines showing the deleterious effect of testosterone on language skills. A 2016 brain imaging study found that even 4 weeks of testosterone “therapy” may shrink the zone of language in the brain of FTMs

...But don't females naturally have a larger language zone in the brain than males anyway? Is it not possible this is just another situation of masculinisation, a la increased body hair and heart disease risk?

>>8795333
4thwavenow may or may believe that, they're TErf ideology watered down and repackaged for liberal moms.

They're too soft on AGPs and the patriarchy to be truTERF.

>>8795366
I've heard it claimed they become weak for their size. Its possible that the lack of strength and muscle could make them more prone to injury.

>>8794151
With all the advances of medicine, isn't there a way to remove breast tissue that doesn't involve ripping your skin apart and leaving that huge scar?
You want me to believe that famous celebrities who have performed mastectomy got these scars ass well? Angelina Jolie has this two huge scars beneath her former breasts?

>>8795398
Shoulda finished reading:
>But hey, you might get a bump in your mental rotation skills.
Again, this is a trait typically stronger in males than females, so how is it not predictable that it'd be masculinised on T?

>TERFS hate MtF & disregard sexual dimorphism

is this true because it would verify some personal experience.

fuck i hate how accurate 4chan is.

>>8794215
>taking T kills your verbal skills a bit but increases your visuospatial skills
fwiw I'm mtf and based on a comparison of pre-everything SAT scores and post-SRS GRE scores I had only a slight drop in math skills and a slight increase in verbal skills. The changes were in the expected direction but not huge.

when ppl call me dyslexic can i say i'm roided out on T becoz i wasn't b4 puberty

>>8794151

this is interesting, to be honest , now I find kinda hard to find the words I want to say, some times I can't get to say it the right way so I say it wrong ( i.e. with another letter)

but I kinda had this every once in a while, so I don't know if it's here to stay or it's one of those "I don't sleep well" things

also,even if I have some sort of dislexia I also feel like I'm more eloquent than before, but can be because I'm becoming older.

so the answer is, maybe?

>>8796064
you could blame it on prenatal androgen exposure yes

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>>8794151
christ what happened with the one on the left, I'm not very familiar with ftm stuff does that happen often?

>>8795339
I think they mean the vaguely TERF-y source post, not us.

>>8795398
>>8795405
Yeah, it's totally predictable and not really a big deal.

>>8795700
No, it's not huge. I only noticed the drop in verbal skills at all because my roommates do a lot of "party-game"-type shit together that involves, say, naming songs or things of the same color as fast as possible. Etc. At one point we had to hear a song lyric read out and identify the song; my one roommate and I share the same favourite genre, so we were up against each other. She kicked my ass, since she named every song slightly faster (even the ones I knew). It puzzled me slightly, because that used to be the kind of thing I'd win. But we're talking the difference of maybe 1-2 extra seconds to name the song. Without a timed competition, I might not have noticed I was slower to bring the words to mind

>>8796316
I believe that pic was taken when they had all recently had top surgery. There's a more recent pic where their chests are healed and they're also all more masculinized and generally just look better. I don't have it saved, though.

And yeah, if you've ever had surgery, the bruising can be really incredible. I had a hysto last year, and it was crazy colors around the incision.

Lel I was never good with communicating with others. There's no difference now.

>>8796326
ah okay makes sense, I haven't had any surgery since I was like 4 so I don't know what its like
now I'm interested in seeing the more recent pic, middle right passes as a baby faced teen but his tattooes do not fit at ALL

Whats with the bob marley on the right?

>>8796409
I dunno smoking weed made me repress better, why didn't it work for Bobbi Marley over there?

>>8794151
oh noes
transitioning might give me male brain, how horrible

>>8794151

>be woman
>jealous of men
>have tons of surgery
>take loads of hormones
>become aggressive manlet

These things creep me the fuck out way more than any MtF. They all seem mentally unstable.

>>8796506
>A community of parents & friends skeptical of the "transgender child/teen" trend

Of course they'd see this as bad.

>>8796748
Yep I get creeped out by them too. It makes me wonder it women are similarly creeped out by MtFs.

>>8796751
Yep they want their little tomboys and butches to be GNC and avoid the T.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the reason so many ftms get diagnosed with autism

>>8796748
>be woman
>jealous of men
jealous of what? lmfao being a man is trash
ftms transition because of dysphoria

>>8797204
>lmfao being a man is trash
explain

>>8794151
why do FtMs always present as the trashiest kind of male with ridiculous body modifications slutty and passive aggressive behavior and skinnyfat muscle distribution

seriously they all look like that ratty bitch who starts a fight only to puss out and throw a bottle at the back of your head before you turn back to make him kiss the sidewalk

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>>8797225
Females are put on a pedestal, have everything paid for them, attention from most men, no judgement from society if they live at home or don't have a job, no judgement if they aren't good at anything, get away with most crimes, public school/university is more tailored to females, media constantly telling you how much of a beautiful snowflake you are even if you're a globular hamplanet.

On the other hand if you like females and aren't chad which most men and 100% of ftms will never be, you lose all of that to be a lonely, bored disposable utilitarian nobody.

You transition because your brain perceives your existence as male, and the dissociating out of body feeling drives you crazy since you feel like your inside another persons body, not because you want to be a dickless manlet or because you think op's pic is comparable to a bio male

>>8797300
>tfw dysphoric over not being pedestalled

>>8795333
They don't, actually.
"There is no female or male brain" (true) does not equal "brains don't show any sexual dimorphism" (false).

Few men are 1.55m but those who are don't have "female height." Few women are 1.85m but those who are don't have "male height." There is no female or male height, though height in humans shows sexual dimorphism.

HSTS MtF probably have very feminine brains. This leads them to have bigger and deeper problems under patriarchal culture that enforces masculinity, than guys who have a more masc brain, so they are at an elevated risk of developing gender dysphoria.

Vice versa for butch lesbians. Masc brain leads them to have serious issues within patriarchal culture that exaggerates and enforces femininity, so they develop dysphoria, develop the delusion that they are "really" men or that they are ought to be men.

It's sad, really. Feminine boys and Butch women are beautiful.

t. a real TERF

>>8797817
What about A*Ps?

>>8797817
Youre willing to recognize trans neurology but not understand it as a source of dysphoria? Thats crazy. And get that blanchard trash outta here.

>>8797817
>t. a real TERF
>real
Umm, I hope you have two XX chromosomes then otherwise I can't take anything you say seriously tbqhon. Male "feminists" is the most ridiculous uncletomfoolery ever.

>>8798571
>And get that blanchard trash outta here.
Not an argument.

>>8794151
In the new pics they l9ok more cis. If they were clothed here they'd just look like young boys.

>>8797817
>"There is no female or male brain" (true) does not equal "brains don't show any sexual dimorphism" (false).
Wtf I love TERF ideology now
t. also believes this

>>8797300
Ah so even FtMs admit being a dude sucks. If MRAs are 100% right than its a scary world indeed. I'd like to believe the truth lies somewhere between MRA and radfem, although I tend to be more sympathetic towards the MRA crowd as i'm an AGP repressor trapped in man land until death.

>>8797817
I have to agree, I tire of patriarchy sometimes. Homophobic masculinity enforced patriarchy sucks for AGPs.

Also love feminine guys, something so alluring about them.

>>8798589
Well i know, i wasnt arguing against it. Its pretty well known to be a garbage analysis of transexuality especially given the findings of neurological gender which have yet to be shown to allign to any "hsts/agp" dichotomy

>>8796748
>jealous of men
Yeah, not how that works. And even if we WERE jealous of cis men, transitioning doesn't fix that because it doesn't make us cis men. In an objective analysis, it would far, FAR better to remain living as women. But that's not how dysphoria works.

>>take loads of hormones
It's a common tactic of anti-trans people to describe our HRT doses with words like "tons" or "loads" or to describe the effects using similarly hyperbolic language.

I don't have more hormones in my body than you do (probably less, most of the time) and they don't do anything to me that they haven't done to pretty much everyone else.

>They all seem mentally unstable.
Okay...? I have no psychiatric comorbidities, so by all other measures I am "mentally stable." Sounds like you've made this assessment based on nothing more than being unsettled by how FtMs look, though.

>>8797194
The autism-gender dysphoria link appears to be real, and not just the result of misdiagnosing more masculine females. But yeah, I'm sure a lot of FtMs score higher on autistic traits regardless of actual autism than cis females. I score past the cutoff on the AQ, but I'm not actually autistic. (As assessed by a professional, mind you - I had it ruled as part of a routine differential diagnosis of ADHD.)

>>8797226
Body mods in general are a trashy "liberated" lefty thing, and lots of FtMs come from those types of crowds.

>>8797817
>Few men are 1.55m but those who are don't have "female height."
Bull. If you have a guy who is 5'1", essentially everyone is going to say he's a woman's height. I don't know why you'd even use this as an example.

It's true that there is not one neurological configuration which is "male" or "female." But we aren't talking about individual brains - we're talking about averages of groups. If you have ONE male, there is not necessarily anything about his brain that definitively distinguishes his brain from the brain of ONE female. If you have hundreds of males, and you compare an analysis of several sexually-dimorphic areas to the same in hundreds of females, you will see distinct sex differences emerge.

When we're talking about trans people's neurology, we are also not discussing ONE trans person's brain, necessarily - but in the same sort of analysis as above, MULTIPLE FtM brains show AVERAGE features much closer (though not identical) to the male averages than female averages. (And yes, this includes BEFORE HRT.)

>It's sad, really. Feminine boys and Butch women are beautiful.
I could never have survived as a butch woman. For one thing, I prefer men as partners (something lesbian TERFs never fucking think of whenever they bitch about "losing our butches"), but also because I couldn't stand to get ONLY that close to being me but no closer. I'd frankly rather do girldrag and suck "Nigel"'s dick for the rest of my life. At least it's explicitly performative; at least it's not the "real" me out in plain sight for everyone to look right past or misunderstand.

I perceived myself as a boy all the way back to toddlerhood, when my parents were still putting me in lacy dresses. I was not somehow being punished for the masculinity that few people had perceived yet, so that doesn't make any sense as an explanation for why I intuitively saw myself as male.

I'm really tired of the Marxist anti-science narratives. Give it a rest.

>>8799681
>tomboy/AAP spotted

Is it worth it having a more masc body but being a shit tier gay man?

I'm an AGP(teenage onset) and I'd rather live a lie than be a shit tier transbian.

>>8798259
I know near to nothing about AAPs, but for AGPs it's basically just some repressed "feminine" feelings (that every person has; not really related to having a feminine brain) coupled with a "sexual target location error" i.e. a fetish.

I'd know; I have AGP.

>>8798571
It's not "trans neurology", it's normal bell curve stuff. Some men's brains just happen to fall closer to the fem side, just like some men happen to be very short; it says nothing "deeper" about who they are, it's just natural variation.

>>8798585
I was jesting. But people call me TERF all the time so... The term doesn't really have anything to do with radical feminism or even feminism in general. Everyone who is critical of trans dogma without being right-wing/conservative gets called a "TERF".

>>8799681
No that's bull. If you think a man being short means he has a biologically female attribute, your idea of man/woman/male/female is seriously fucked up and deeply affected by stereotypical aka black & white thinking.

The fact that many MtF show feminine neurology is simply because having feminine neurology increases your chances of developing dysphoria b/c of society. It's not a natural/inevitable development.

>I perceived myself as a boy all the way back to toddlerhood, when my parents were still putting me in lacy dresses.
See, you were conditioned to associate "being a girl" with having to wear dresses. That fucks people up and makes them develop dysphoria.

According to this theory anyway. I can't read your mind and know the complete story.

>>8794367

Except for the part where it's not rare.

>>8794151
Ok what are those specimens

>>8800200
>See, you were conditioned to associate "being a girl" with having to wear dresses. That fucks people up and makes them develop dysphoria.

Lol. I wonder if I actually have a different sense of dysphoria and myself from everyone else, or if you're just full of shit.

>>8796319
>Yeah, it's totally predictable and not really a big deal.

brain changes are the biggest deal there is, period

>roommate

yeah you're a kid aren't you... throwing around some of the strongest magic like it's nothing because you're still invincible

oh well, you're probably right about this particular effect not being fundamentally harmful

>>8800200
>but for AGPs it's basically just some repressed "feminine" feelings (that every person has; not really related to having a feminine brain)
There's no evidence for or studies that support this Seranoist interpretation.

So I get to upgrade my autism level?

>>8800489
There are most certainly enough studies on AGP to make sure it's a thing.
"Blanchard was debunked!!!" is a shit meme.

And really, have you ever googled "sissy fetish forum"? Most of them have a dedicated trans section.

Have you read the anime gender dysphoria article on Medium by Social Justice Wizard? Google it. He speaks for us young AGP males. (Those who admit it's AGP, at least. Most deny it and delude themselves with "I'm really a woman uwu~~")

>>8794296
Estrogen doesn't work in the same way as testosterone. Bio females have more white matter in their brains than gray matter - more axons and connections. Mtfs lose their gray matter but don't grow white matter to replace it. So they just become less efficient all around.

>>8800709
I thought that was a great article but god, a male radfem, can you get more cucked than that? When I read TERF stuff the TE part is fun but the RF stuff makes me cring.

>>8800772
Yep its the "brain fog" I've heard about.

>>8800772
>Mtfs lose their gray matter but don't grow white matter to replace it
Really makes me thi-

>>8803089
he's our resident repressor hon who spams copypasta like a tard whenever people disagree with him

>>8803099
Wait, Social Justice Wizard hangs out here? I don't blame him i'm a repressor hon too.

>>8800772
>Mtfs lose their gray matter but don't grow white matter to replace it
Does it mean we become retarded? (Me even asking the question probably means yes.)