What is gender dysphoria for you? What do you feel?

A sense of dread and loss at the thought that this might not have happened to me if I were cis female

>>8793673

A sense that if we all just lie that we aren't either perverts or obsessed with stereotypes, we'll be able to transition without too many questions.

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>>8793689

>>8793673
feels bad man

>>8793733
yeah I know but how?

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>>8793740
Here's a wildly hard to contextualize tl;dr that makes sense to trannies but will almost certainly sound completely nuts to cis people

>>8793750
>will almost certainly sound completely nuts to cis people

You would be right my friend, but you do you.

>>8793750
thanks anon

>6 months on hrt
>uni starts
>im in boymode but my tits are seriously becoming impossible to hide even in a hoodie and im short and i look like a girl but my voice is fuckeddd and i still go by my guy name
>look at all the girls and they all sound cute and stuff and theyre socializing and shit
>i cant talk to anyone or do anything because i hate my voice and i want to kill myself
>be about to cry constantly
>think about leaving
>i stayed anyway but when i went home i cried a lot in the bus because 7 years of t is too much kill me

>>8793673
Stress, a strange feeling of trying to change my body shape, like my mind is not synced to my body, I'm always comparing myself to girls.

A feeling of inadequacy that don't stop.

>>8793689
are you a feminist?

>>8793782
I think it's just a troll

The feeling that I'm a female with a massively deformed body

>>8793839
this is so sad but made me laugh. It's a nice way to feel it.

>>8793782

Lol, no.

>>8793839

What does being female feel like? How do you know to call your feelings, feeling female?

>>8793850
Oh, it's one of those "I don't feel like my gender" people. If you were in the wrong body you would be feeling the fuck out of your gender, even if you're too unaware to realize it as you are

>>8793850
OP here, I think that the anon it's just pointing to the fact of looking at herself and feel that it's not her body etc idk

>>8793850
>What does being female feel like?
There's no feeling for that, it's not something I think about. If I was in a room where people were separated into groups by gender, I would naturally go to the female side without thinking. When I look at my body and feel insecure, it doesn't occur to me whatsoever to compare my body to another male's body, I only ever compare my features to females. I don't think my feelings are male feelings or female feelings, they're just my feelings. My brain simply registers me as a female despite the fact that I was born male. No logic or reasoning can make me not do this, it's hardcoded in me and I can't not do it. So what I do feel is that my body is completely and utterly wrong, every feature about me is wrong, the way people treat me is wrong, everything I do to fit in and feel normal feels wrong and disgusting and horrible, and if people treat me like a girl I just feel normal, I just feel like how things are supposed to be and how they've always really been.

>>8793859

> the wrong body

Lmao

I don't have a gen-duhhh, I have a sex. My sex is what it is. It's just a biological fact.

You're no different from a religious nut.

>>8793870
If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen

>>8793870
imagine being this autistic

>>8793878
lady, don't listen to trolls, just ignore it

>>8793864

> If I was in a room where people were separated into groups by gender, I would naturally go to the female side without thinking

I'd go to the appropriate side because I know my sex. I don't have some mystic sense of being my sex. I just know it as a biological fact. This doesn't make any sense.

> When I look at my body and feel insecure, it doesn't occur to me whatsoever to compare my body to another male's body, I only ever compare my features to females

So you want to be female, for whatever reason. It doesn't mean you see yourself as female. If you did, you wouldn't see a problem.

What does female mean to you if it isn't simply the biological fact of what you are?

> My brain simply registers me as a female

That doesn't mean anything.

> So what I do feel is that my body is completely and utterly wrong

Biology doesn't do wrong. Either shit works or it doesn't.

> people treat me like a girl

> there are different ways men and women should be treated and this should be a rule

>>8793870
>TERF spacing
I told you about TERFposting
I warned you dog

>>8792503

>>8793870
terf

>>8793673
A sense of alienation from people. Occasionally listening to my voice and being horrified. No feelings of looking good. Not feeling like I belong anywhere.

>>8793924

lmao
screaming a nonsense word every time someone asks a sensible question makes you look insane

>>8793902
dude or grill, OP here again, gender dysphoria is an identity disorder. There are so many identity disorders and this is one of them or at least that's what my trans friend told me.

People feel bad with their identity so they want to change it, that's all.

If you can't understand it. You know where the door is.

If you are not trans like me and you want to understand it better and read about how people feel about it, stay here.

I have a friend that is suffering gender dysphoria and I just wanted to know better how my friend's feelings are.

But it's a bit masochistic stay here. Knowing that people with gender dysphoria feel really bad about it. Annoying them, it's like if you were an attention whore or something like that.

Stop being an ass.

>>8793930
terf

>>8793902
Wanting to be female is identifying as female. Normal people don't want to be the opposite sex because they identify as their natal sex.

>>8793902
I've spent so many years trying to get so many dozens of strangers on the internet to understand but what's the point. For some reason you accept the biological reality of sex but can't comprehend that people can have a brain wired differently than your own, you can't accept that the brain is part of that biological reality as well.

You accept that males and females are distinct from one another biologically. I imagine you also accept that males and females have different brain configurations as well. I also imagine you accept that some humans are born intersex or have unique deformities or differences that place them outside the norm of what a typical male or female is, or makes them ambiguous. Why can you not accept that this abnormality can happen to the brain as well? Is it really so impossible that of all the ways humans can be born different from the norm, a human born with a brain that thinks registers itself as the opposite sex is not at all a possibility, despite this phenomenon happening in every society that exists all across history? Even in the animal kingdom it's not unheard of for animals to adopt the specific behaviors of the opposite sex, just on instinct.

What do you even want to accomplish? Are you trying to convince me that I'm not really trans, I'm just delusional? I know perfectly well that I'm biologically male, I know that I have XY choromosomes and male sex organs. That knowledge doesn't change the fact that I have gender dysphoria, it doesn't change the fact that I have an innate disconnect between by brain and body.

>there are different ways men and women should be treated and this should be a rule
A cripple doesn't want to be seen as a cripple, they just want to be seen as a normal person. If someone says I'm a guy, it just reinforces the disconnect I feel, it brings out dysphoria. If someone says I'm a girl, I don't have to think about anything.

>>8793673
Feeling like I've lost out on life. I've lied to myself and everyone who knows me. Hiding behind a facade only showing a normal person. I've mostly given up on srs since it does nothing. It's not going to make me anymore of a girl, it's not going to fix the fact I can't give birth, it's not going to solve my dysphoria. Though after a lot of introspection, I've accepted this and just work on my aesthetics so that I can at least not hate my body.

It's really hard to put into words. My dysphoria isn't that severe when compared to that of most of the people I spoke with. I only really feel down now and then. Sometimes I feel like I'm not at home in my own body. Like I'm pretending to be human. Some entity moving my flesh about in order to trick others into perceiving me as a person. I sink into these deep depressive bouts where I can't think of anything but how I have the wrong body and will never have a woman's.

I'm fine most of the time though. Just easily irritable and disconnected from the outside world. There's this ever-present, subtle anxiety I feel when others can see me. For the longest time I thought it was just because I'm ugly but, honestly thinking it over, I realized imagining myself as an attractive man just felt wrong.

>>8793936
>I imagine you also accept that males and females have different brain configurations as well.
They're a TERF so they don't. Ladybrains trigger them.

>>8793673
Gender dysphoria feels like:
-A deep sense of betrayal by one's own self, like if you found out a childhood friend had ghosted you
-Disgust like you've fallen in mud on a hot day and have a long walk to get home while it dries off and crusts and you can't do anything about it
-Warped unfamiliarity like when you lose a tooth and feel the gap with your tongue, and it feels all lumpy and distorted and big and wrong except it's every gendered physical trait in your body that feels like this

Imagine all of this, at once, and it happens any time you look in the mirror, hear your own voice, or even feel the breeze against the contours of your face- any time you are reminded of a gendered trait matching your birth sex; and it is only alleviated bit by bit as you make more and more of those traits change to an opposite sex configuration; and any traits you can't change, you're stuck with that feeling whenever you're reminded of them

>>8793954
>pretending to be human
I get this. I call it 'being covered in shit'. A feeling of being absolutely filthy. Like I don't deserve nice things or to be loved. I feel like a monster.

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>>8793673
a powerful sense of dread in my chest/stomach area

i am *not* the boy i see in the mirror every morning. his voice disgusts me, and his facial hair/receding hairline are atrocious

i will never know what life would've been like as a cis girl
every girl i see in public makes me hate myself for not being like them
sometimes i can laugh at this cruel joke, but that's not very often

i feel like a failure to my family and even if liberalism made them not care, i still wish i could've been so much more (not even having children, just being a normal guy)

euthanasia should be legal for trannies because i don't want to spend the rest of my life as a freak, always a lesser person and an imitation of a woman

>>8793930
>being this cis

>>8793964
Spot on. Good comparisons.

>>8793936

It wouldn't matter how your brain was wired. You do not have a reference class to say "I feel female". You do not know how others feel. That is a basic problem that nobody has ever got past. If being female is not a biological fact and it's not a social class then it doesn't mean anything.

Brains can do unusual things, but it's simply not philosophically possible to feel you're the opposite sex. You can be aware of your sex, and you can dislike the social implications of that, or even have a sexual fetish for being the opposite sex. Those are both understandable reasons for wanting to transition.

> despite this phenomenon happening in every society that exists all across history
This is false, historically "third genders" never claimed to actually be women. They're gay men.

> I know perfectly well that I'm biologically male,
Then that's all there is to it. You don't have a disconnect between brain and body. Your body is the sex you are and that's it.

> If someone says I'm a guy, it just reinforces the disconnect I feel, it brings out dysphoria.
It's a statement of fact nothing more.

To all the people in this thread, why do you care?
Why caring about sexuality? Why caring about genders?
Just live a good life.

>>8793999
>If being female is not a biological fact
:^)

>>8794002

>>I have a friend that is suffering gender dysphoria and I just wanted to know better how my friend's feelings are.

>>8793963
>They're a TERF so they don't. Ladybrains trigger them.

lmao
Of course women and men have different brains and preferences. Feminists who deny that are idiots. This doesn't help trannies because most of them are outstandingly male in every way except their fixation on wanting to be women.

>>8794002
>lmao my senpaitachi just don't have your medical condition

>>8793673
I only have a little, basically I look in the mirror and notice my chin is way too big and masculine, and I look at my hands and think they are too big and masculine as well

it has got better though, but idk if I actually see myself in the mirror or if I'm just looking at a person

>>8794009
As long as you ignore brain scans my dude.

>>8793999
>It wouldn't matter how your brain was wired
It does if your brain is wired like the opposite sex you fucking retard

>>8794021

It wouldn't matter. Your brain has no reference for how it would feel in any other body. It also doesn't explain why trannies are so obsessed with the social stuff.

>>8794052
kys

>>8793833
accuracy

>>8794052
>Your brain has no reference for how it would feel in any other body
Yah transsexuals just happen to have sex-shifted brains it's a coincidence

>>8794067
Only HSTS have female brains. AGPs are just male or autistic looking. Ironically that's why AGPs are the only true transgenders. Because they're truly male, when they transition, they are "transwomen". When HSTS transition they are pretty much the same as real women.

>>8794073
>Only HSTS have female brains. AGPs are just male or autistic looking.
Wrong.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699258/
>The results of this study show that the white matter microstructure in FtM and MtF transsexuals falls halfway between that of FCs and MCs. Our data harmonize with the hypothesis that fiber tract development is influenced by the hormonal environment during late prenatal and early postnatal brain development that is proposed to determine gender identity.

>Here, we investigated whether sexual orientation associates with diffusivity measures. No effects on our main findings were observed when sexual orientation was regressed out in the ANCOVA design. Moreover, there was no significant effect of sexual orientation on diffusivity parameters in the regression analysis including all subjects and using group as factor of no interest.

As an aside the HSTS/AGP distinction is not recognized by the medical establishment, ignoring a handful of quacks. It is not in any manual.

>>8793673
I look in the mirror, and I see myself, but like, something is terribly wrong. And as if some parts of my body are horribly deformed.

It's like feeling incredibly homesick, but knowing that you don't have a home and you never had a home.

>>8794073
HSTS have extreme gay male brains. An HSTS is not a woman and it's an insult to actual transsexuals to pretend otherwise.

>>8794110
>Speaking as if "HSTS" is a real category
You're as bad as the person you're arguing with tbqh

>>8794110
>HSTS
What's that?

>>8794089

kek at that study

> n=5 homosexuals. 5!
> incredibly retarded analysis - they did fucking sequential t-tests per voxel
> didn't observe differences between gay men and straight men when we know this exists
> Dick Swaab is a hack who believes in hormones in the womb determining gender identity

Meanwhile...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

> Following this line of thought, Cantor (2011, 2012, but also see Italiano, 2012) has recently suggested that Blanchard’s predictions have been fulfilled in two independent structural neuroimaging studies. Cantor seems to be right.

> As an aside the HSTS/AGP distinction is not recognized by the medical establishment,

Oh pls it's even in the DSM under a different name where they discuss early/late transitioners.

>>8794110

Gay men have female brains Anon

>>8794073
It doesn't matter because both AGP and HSTS are trans

>>8794129
They are homosexual men who think they are trans.

>>8793769
Just pretend youre mute :D

>>8793750
this is almost exactly what I feel... Tried to explain it to an ex of mine but she just thought I was crazy

1/2?

>>8794139
>n=5 homosexuals. 5!
Which is great since we're concerned with the more numerous gynephiles and whether they also have feminized brains.

>Incredibly retarded analysis
Know what? I'll believe the professionals over you.

>didn't observe differences between gay men and straight men when we know this exists
Once again you show a chronic inability to read. The very quote I posted in the post you're responding to mentions how they checked whether orientation was a factor and discovered it wasn't.

>Dick Swaab believes in hormones in the womb determining gender identity
So do the vast majority of professionals in the field.

>A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism
Why not quote the full paragraph?

>Following this line of thought, Cantor (2011, 2012, but also see Italiano, 2012) has recently suggested that Blanchard’s predictions have been fulfilled in two independent structural neuroimaging studies. Specifically, Savic and Arver (2011) using VBM on the cortex of untreated nonhomosexual MtFs and another study using DTI in homosexual MtFs (Rametti et al., 2011b) illustrate the predictions. Cantor seems to be right. Nonhomosexual MtFs present differences with heterosexual males in structures that are not sexually dimorphic (Savic & Arver, 2011), while homosexual MtFs (as well as homosexual FtMs) show differences with respect to male and female controls in a series of brain fascicles (Rametti et al., 2011a, 2011b).

So we have Savic's study, which concerns *the volume* of various structures, rather than the density, and indeed shows that untreated gynephiles are not different from male controls. It, however, does not contradict in any way the studies related to *density*, such as the ones concerning white matter microstructures and the INAH stuff.

>>8794089
>>8794139
The other study, which they use as a positive example for why androphilics are intersexed, was done by Rametti. It's name?
>The microstructure of white matter in male to female transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment.

In other words what your paper suggests indicates neurointersexuality my paper found in gynephilic MTFs. If you accepted this as evidence of that originally then you must accept this as evidence now in order to be consistent.

>Oh pls it's even in the DSM under a different name where they discuss early/late transitioners.
The DSM does not accept Blanchard's etiological explanations behind the two groups. It doesn't even mention them.

>>8794230
What?
How can you tell?

Lying on the bed with gf wishing you could be her :(

>>8794280
For one they don't actually want to be girls. In fact many were happily gay men before they transitioned after realizing they could catch straight men that way.

>>8794293
Won't that trigger dysphoria in them?

Why would someone does that. Jesus Christ.

>>8793769
You might want to look into a binder or at least a sports bra if you're going to be in boy mode and you boobs are getting too big.

>>8794312
They don't feel dysphoria like we do.

>>8794261

> Which is great since we're concerned with the more numerous gynephiles and whether they also have feminized brains.

We're concerned with being able to tell apart androphiles and gynephiles.

>The very quote I posted in the post you're responding to mentions how they checked whether orientation was a factor and discovered it wasn't.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Their method lacked the power to pick up the relevant difference.

We know that gay men have different looking brains. Why couldn't they pick that up? It proves their method was bad.

> So we have Savic's study, which concerns *the volume* of various structures, rather than the density, and indeed shows that untreated gynephiles are not different from male controls.

So they don't have female looking brains, whereas HSTS do. Great. We've ruled out the claim that they have female brains in male bodies.

What this Swaab study also fails to do is show the differences in gynephilic brains actually look feminized, as opposed to some other kind of change. They list some change in the brain that are in the opposite direction. If you cherry pick enough stuff you can always find some changes in the female direction.

> In other words what your paper suggests indicates neurointersexuality my paper found in gynephilic MTF

Wrong. Your paper is on mixed androphilic and gynephilic. No conclusion is possible. That doesn't indicate they're intersexed, just that their brains are different.

>>8794320
This is just crazy.

But why AGP can't be trans?

>>8794349
What do you mean anon? AGP are trans, nobody seriously disputes that.

>>8794357
Someone said they are not trans.

But the HSTS... I'm not sure about that, it just seems crazy to me.

>>8794383
There's a lot of hate and jealousy against the AGP.

>>8794335
>We're concerned with being able to tell apart androphiles and gynephiles.
They specifically accounted for orientation!

>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Their method lacked the power to pick up the relevant difference.
lmao. You're getting really desperate here. They conducted an experiment and found that orientation is not related to these diffusivity measures. What are you basing your claims on? You'r heart's innermost desire? That's not how science works.

>We know that gay men have different looking brains. Why couldn't they pick that up?
But they did! Orientation just doesn't impact these white matter microstructures.

>It proves their method was bad.
It proves that you only like science when it says what you want it to say, and start saying "it's bad D:" the moment the results say otherwise.

>So they don't have female looking brains, whereas HSTS do.
Androphiles have female brain volumes but so do gay men! That is not an indication of gender identity.

>We've ruled out the claim that they have female brains in male bodies.
No actual scientist is making these claims. The claims were always of intersexuality.

>What this Swaab study also fails to do is show the differences in gynephilic brains actually look feminized, as opposed to some other kind of change. They list some change in the brain that are in the opposite direction. If you cherry pick enough stuff you can always find some changes in the female direction.
Why do trans people, in specific, exhibit this shift in the direction of their non-natal sex? Why is the correlation this tight?

>Wrong. Your paper is on mixed androphilic and gynephilic. No conclusion is possible.
Wrong. They specifically accounted for orientation. You just flat out lie about this because you're a science denialist.

>That doesn't indicate they're intersexed, just that their brains are different.
OH OH OH but the very paper you linked made this exact claim!

>>8794335
>>8794442
cont.

It states that the white matter differences in non-homosexual transsexuals hint toward a sort of neurointersexuality!
>The review of the available data seems to support two existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtM

and, since I have some space here, here's the expanded quote on how the study I linked accounted for orientation:
>To investigate whether the three sex steroid hormones (E2, T, and P4) or sexual orientation explained group differences, the named variables were added as covariates of no interest within separate ANCOVA analyses. Finally, multiple regression analyses were performed to determine the effects of hormones and sexual orientation on diffusivity maps independent of group membership, i.e., with group in addition to TIV as factor of no interest. Separate models were calculated for each of the independent variables (E2, T, P4, and sexual orientation).

>Associations between TBSS measures and sexual orientation
>Here, we investigated whether sexual orientation associates with diffusivity measures. No effects on our main findings were observed when sexual orientation was regressed out in the ANCOVA design. Moreover, there was no significant effect of sexual orientation on diffusivity parameters in the regression analysis including all subjects and using group as factor of no interest.

>>8794442

> They conducted an experiment and found that orientation is not related to these diffusivity measures.
We already know that gay brains differ by volume and connectivity which affects density. So why can't they see it?

> Androphiles have female brain volumes but so do gay men! That is not an indication of gender identity.
You're assuming that gender identity exists without evidence.

> Why do trans people, in specific, exhibit this shift in the direction of their non-natal sex? Why is the correlation this tight?
They don't. The paper fails to show a consistent shift in that direction for gynephiles. What we know about gynephilic MtF is that as far as anyone knows they have normal-looking non-feminized brains.

> They specifically accounted for orientation.
If they can't see orientation in the brain there's something wrong with their method. The numbers are not large and will be contaminated by different orientations.

> OH OH OH but the very paper you linked made this exact claim!
Only for HSTS/gay males.

>>8794459
>No effects on our main findings were observed when sexual orientation was regressed out in the ANCOVA design

That's an inappropriate method of analyzing that data. Their numbers are very small, but they're doing thousands of separate tests. It won't be sensitive enough to pick much up.

>>8794488
>We already know that gay brains differ by volume and connectivity which affects density. So why can't they see it?
According to this study white matter tracts aren't. We're looking at different parts.

>You're assuming that gender identity exists without evidence.
Actually I'm not assuming: I mean it in the objective sense of people claiming that they identify as men or women. This measure correlated with white matter tracts being shifted toward the direction of the sex the person stated they identify with.

>Differences in MD included virtually all white matter tracts. Post hoc pairwise comparisons revealed the transition MC < MtF < FtM < FC, with MD values and number of significant voxels increasing significantly (Figs. 1, ,2).2). In other words, female biological sex and female gender identity were associated with increased MD.

>They don't. The paper fails to show a consistent shift in that direction for gynephiles.
It showed the shift in 2 of 3 regions. You're simply ignoring the evidence at this point.

>What we know about gynephilic MtF is that as far as anyone knows they have normal-looking non-feminized brains.
Savic's study did not examine white matter tracts or density! We only know this when it comes to volume.

>If they can't see orientation in the brain there's something wrong with their method.
Do you realize that you don't look at the entire brain every time but at a specific part, and that some parts don't differ based on orientation?

>The numbers are not large and will be contaminated by different orientations.
Okay, cool, so the Savic study should be discarded too right? It has *10 less people*.

>Only for HSTS/gay males.
They made the claim, in the very quote you posted, based on Rametti's white matter microstructure studies. Studies that the paper I linked replicated for gynephiles. Flail more, little morsel.

>>8794570

> According to this study white matter tracts aren't. We're looking at different parts.
White matter is what gives the brain connectivity. You don't understand neuroscience.

>It showed the shift in 2 of 3 regions. You're simply ignoring the evidence at this point.
That's not persuasive. There are a lot of regions.

> Okay, cool, so the Savic study should be discarded too right? It has *10 less people*.
Makes far much less difference than the fact it's not contaminated by different orientations.

> They made the claim, in the very quote you posted, based on Rametti's white matter microstructure studies. Studies that the paper I linked replicated for gynephiles.

They made the claim for HSTS. What's hard to understand about that? The Swaab paper is not gynephiles-only, fails to show over-all feminization, and fails to show the one thing we should see, that orientation makes a difference.

As far as anyone knows, gynephilic MtF have male typical brains while HSTS and gay men do not. This doesn't change that.

>>8794618
>White matter is what gives the brain connectivity. You don't understand neuroscience.
Fucking lol. How can you miss the point this hard?

>That's not persuasive. There are a lot of regions.
It sure was persuasive when it was used as evidence in the study you linked :^) I wonder what has changed..

>Makes far much less difference than the fact it's not contaminated by different orientations.
Hahaha keep digging that hole. Every ounce of desperation just tips more people to my side.

>They made the claim for HSTS
lmao god you're thick. They made it based on finding what this study found.

>The Swaab paper is not gynephiles-only
And has accounted for that.

>Fails to show over-all feminization,
It studies a certain set of traits, just like Rametti's study. Or.. will you admit that you linked what you think is a bogus paper without having read it? :)

>and fails to show the one thing we should see, that orientation makes a difference.
You're now literally complaining the study did not find the results you wanted it to find.

>As far as anyone knows, gynephilic MtF have male typical brains while HSTS and gay men do not. This doesn't change that.
lmao you're just shouting NOPE NOPE NOPE with your head buried in the sand. You're my favorite self-igniting strawman.

>>8794653
>You're now literally complaining the study did not find the results you wanted it to find.
You're really thick. We know gay men have different brains from straight men. We know their white matter is different. If you can't see that then there's a problem.

> And has accounted for that.
You can't account for contaminated data if your data is contaminated. This is really simple. If you're going to talk about gynephilic MtFs you need to discuss a study that actually looks specifically at gynephilic MtFs.


> It studies a certain set of traits, just like Rametti's study.
You haven't read the paper have you? They found very consistent feminization in many areas not "2/3".

>>8794720
>You can't account for contaminated data if your data is contaminated. This is really simple. If you're going to talk about gynephilic MtFs you need to discuss a study that actually looks specifically at gynephilic MtFs.
No matter how many times you'll say this you'll still be wrong. I'll trust the renowned professionals and their studies over your baseless accusation.

>You're really thick. We know gay men have different brains from straight men. We know their white matter is different. If you can't see that then there's a problem.
Maybe you should actually look at what the different studies looked at. Hint: this one examined white matter tract microstructures.

>You haven't read the paper have you? They found very consistent feminization in many areas not "2/3".
Anon..
>Differences in MD included virtually all white matter tracts.

Wait, wait, so you are suggesting that gays have more feminised brain than gynephilic trans women? That don't make sense desu

>>8794832
Volume, like many other features, seems to be associated with sexual orientation rather than with gender identity.

>Researchers found resemblances in the brain's physical structure and size as well as the strength of neural connections among gay people and straight people of the opposite sex.

>In some ways the brains of straight men and lesbians are on similar wavelengths, the research suggests. Likewise, gay men and straight women appear to have similar brains, in some respects. The findings are new evidence that homosexuals may be born with a predisposition to be gay.

>In homosexuals, brain activity most closely matched that of heterosexuals of the other sex.

>Also, homosexual men and straight women showed significantly more neural connections across the two brain hemispheres than heterosexual men did.

>The two sides of the brain also changed in symmetry depending on the person's sexual orientation.

>The right hemisphere was found to be slightly larger than the left in heterosexual males and lesbians, whereas those of gay men and straight women were symmetrical.

>>8794832
>>8794850
Adding to that:
>Our data reveal a sex-atypical INAH3 volume and neuron number in transsexual male-to-female people to be in the female range, while the values of a female-to-male subject were in the male range.

>the volume of INAH3 but not the neuron number was of female size in homosexual men as shown in previous studies (LeVay, 1991; Byne et al., 2001).

https://academic.oup.com/brain/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/brain/awn276

>>8794832
>That don't make sense desu
???

>>8793705
Fuck

>>8794052
From a evolutionary biology/psychology perspective (i.e. objective reality):
The two most basic processes in the human brain are identification of potential mates, and identification of competition for those mates.
This manifests as your sexual orientation, and gender identity respectively.

From birth you begin assembling these two categories, or "genders", so yea it is a social construction.
However which of these you identify with isn't rational, it is emotional, and it's likely that the source of the emotion is either biologically hard wired, buried in the subconscious beyond our reach, or both.

When an mtf says they feel like a woman, they can probably write you a dissertation on the nuance of it all, but you don't have time for that so you just get upset that they are inconvenient to your ideology and world view so you refuse empathy to them.

Gender dysphoria to me is likely an effect of my ever present obsessive thoughts and interests.

>>8793673
AGP/Trans/Dysphoria to me, is like any other thing in life. It's a challenge, a challenge to be beaten like any other.

We must fight for the cure, together.

The other responses in this thread by bitterhons should sum up AGP/Trans/Dysphoria fairly nicely, but not to the extremes that they go to as they often exaggerate how it feels.

>>8796140
This post, minus the bio hard wired bullshit.

Bitterhon actually is fairly close to the truth here.

Most AGP/Trans/Dysphoric people do not identify as AGP/Trans/Dysphoric at birth. This is fact, backed up by statistics. While some do, this doesn't mean they don't have a mental illness. I'm not going to cite them but you're free to use Google if you wish.

Gender is a social construct, but biological sex isn't. AGP/Trans/Dysphoric people are always their biological sex, period.

All people who transition are doing it as an experimental palliative treatment method for a mental illness. This is a mental illness that we should seek to cure.

This is an "emotional" related mental illness, as we're aware. It also has ties to anxiety as well, based on what we know.

We would do a lot of good to find out what causes this emotional "inbalance" as such, and to fix it by inventing a pill perhaps that simply fixes the emotional "inbalance".

This cannot happen while bitterhons are pushing transition as the only method, and blocking any and all other scientists (yes, including the likes of Blanchard).

Fight back against bitterhons for your future.
Don't trap yourself.
STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!

>>8794832
>>8794850
>>8794892
So to clarify:
Gay cis men have brains which are in some ways shifted toward having some of the neural qualities the brains of straight cis women exhibit. Likewise for gay cis women and straight cis men.
Transsexuals attracted to their natal sex naturally exhibit these while transsexuals attracted to their non-natal sex do not. However both groups of transsexuals are shifted toward the other sex in some ways and regions in which non-transsexuals aren't. This lead to the suspicion that things like volume are tied to orientation while things like neuron count and white tract diffusivity measures are tied to gender identity.
Thinking of it from the other direction if we recognize that even cis lesbians have male-like volume measures despite being on estrogen it is only expected that testosteronized gynephilic MTFs will have more or less male-typical volume measures before hormones.

>>8796221
Bullshit brain correlation=causation studies do not count.

Until you can actually identify the exact regions with 100% accuracy that *cause* dysphoria, rather than being markers for it, with 100% accuracy in trans people (because it's what makes you trans), or multiple causes that add up to 100% of trans people, then you're full of fucking shit.

Once you can do that, I'll believe your brain studies.

Then we can get to work on a cure.

>>8796232
:`) never change curegirl

>>8796234
I never will unless new evidence comes to light that is actual, real evidence - and I'm not a girl.

The correct gender is "Fucking White Male", thank you very much bitterhon.

>>8796238
What did she mean by this?

File: cis people still disappointing.jpg (8KB, 261x146px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 261x146px

>>8793870

>>8796248
What I meant was, if there is objective, real evidence proving without a shadow of a doubt that transgenderism actually is an intersex condition, and that there truly is nothing that can be done short of lobotomy with current scientific methods, then I'd do my very best to try and work towards better and better science, rather than a cure.

>>8796238
"fucking white male" isn't a gender, cureanonette

>>8796257
Since you bitterhons love making up false genders like "Male to Female", I can surely come up with my own yes? God. King or Master would work well as well.

>>8796260
Sure thing miss.

>>8796267
I don't know why you bitterhons insist on misgendering me, when all you do is wish for people to call you "she" and treat you as a "woman".

>>8796221
You might be forgetting that sexual orientation and gender identity are different and not connected. You are trying to make sense of a topic that is far more complex than something that can be categorized. I know trans women that want to date men but have no interest in having anal sex, I know trans women like myself that are transbians and think all men are disgusting, and I know an a-sexual trans person. So to clarify... Gender identity is way more complex than you think it is. Talk to someone that is transgender or gender fluid or two spirited and stop generalizing people. It would be far to easy to say there are only 2 genders. LGBT is about inclusion and not being afraid of being yourself. The first pride march was started by a black trans woman. So go fuck yourself, I do mean that in the most sex positive way ;)

>>8796278
>You might be forgetting that sexual orientation and gender identity are different and not connected
That's what I wrote?

>>8796278
>>8796281
I mean, like, I'm confused. Did you read the post or did you stop at the first sentence? It's pro trans and talks about how some things are associated with gender identity while others are associated with sexual orientation.

File: 1503224062855.jpg (17KB, 313x313px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 313x313px

>>8793673
i feel an angel trapped in the wrong body. i tell my body to move or work and it responds with apathy and pain.
i look at my arms, i feel my body hair, and it makes me want to vomit.
and i also feel a phantom vagina.
i tried sex, but my partners all feel that i play the role of a woman that doesn't know how to use her penis.
i feel unable to relate to mens groups, and womens groups tell me i don't look like i belong. so my heart fills with apathetic sarcasm.
i felt terrified of male puberty, and was disgusted at each stage.
i am proud of my boobs and curves, they make me feel confident. i don't know or understand why looking in a mirror doesn't make me sad anymore.

also this thread make me feel like doing drugs. stop making us prove ourselves.

Dysphoria to me is waking up in morning and touching the stubble on my face and getting a cold sweat because its not ment to be there. Its getting up to go have a shower and not wanting to look at your own body that is hard to recognize because it disgusts so much. Its getting ready and every single thing you try on heightens all the worst parts of yourself that you hate, you know that dress is very pretty but when its on you all you can focus on is your shitty arms, neck, chin, hair, eyebrows, chest, crotch, legs ect. Its the feeling of I have to leave right the fuck now because every one here hates me for being myself. Its like putting on a costume that you hate and feeling like you will never be able to take it off. Its like having a fake mirror with someone else's reflection staring back. My voice doesn't really bother me enough to not sing and talk to people, but that is because I have always had a soft voice. Dyspohoia to me is the shackle around my leg that is holding me back from being happy.

>>8793750
Fuck that hit me really hard

>>8796300
>i feel an angel trapped in the wrong body.

I know that feel. Anyone else /angelgirl/ here?

>>8796300
>and i also feel a phantom vagina
Whoa that's extreme

>>8793673
It's a bit confusing to explain. In the beginning, I didn't really understand what made men and women different. During my childhood I never expected I'd grow into a woman, just that something would change. When puberty eventually happened it was really shocking for me. I grew boobs and afterwards my body didn't feel like mine anymore. I know that from what other people say I am a girl, but being a girl doesn't feel natural. It's like I'm in a suit and I can't take it off. I see myself in a mirror and I don't understand how that person is me or why i was born female.

>>8796389
I've been told that the "I always knew" narrative is often fabricated. Starting to feel dysphoric around puberty is apparently very common.

>>8796393
I told my parents I wanted to be a girl when I was around 4 and used to steal my moms bras, but I didnt get dysphoria until puberty, does that count? :o

>>8796657
Sure. I'm not saying no one feels like this. Just that a lot of people only notice something wrong around puberty.

>>8794892
>https://academic.oup.com/brain/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/brain/awn276

> post-mortem brain material
GTFO

>>8796140
There's no particular way women should or shouldn't feel. Trannies are just making it up. Nobody's in the wrong body. Be an unusual man. So what?

>>8796278
> sexual orientation and gender identity are different and not connected
lol that must be why the vast majority of FtMs like women, early transitioning MtFs like men and late transitioning MtFs like women
Sexual orientation and "gender identity" are very closely linked.

>>8796831
Post mortem studies are extremely common in neurology

>>8796318
H-here.

>>8796975
Studies on ancient dead tranny brains can't falsify any hypotheses related to young pre-hormonal transsexual brains.

>>8797095
Give them a look my senpai

>>8793673
i would like to read more about what do you feel during dysphoria

>>8793680
Why would you want to be female??? What does the superior (male) gender stand to gain from that???

>>8793673
>I don't have a strong connection to my body or a detailed internal image. I look in the mirror and feel like I've been reminded of what I look like after not seeing my own reflection for 20 years, even if it's only been 20 minutes.
>All this facial/body hair makes me feel so disgusting, and it's so uncomfortably jarring to feel
>My feet are too big; my torso is too wide; my arms are too vascular; my forehead is too large; my nose is too big; my hips should be bigger; I should have a vagina instead; my voice is too deep and doesn't feel like it's mine. I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff
>Feeling envious of women because of the way their bodies are shaped, how their voices sound, and the way clothes fit them
I basically feel like the body I want to be occupying is very different from the one I actually am, so I don't feel a strong connection with my own, and most of what I feel toward it is negative.

>>8798762
Males are ugly. I don't want to be ugly.

>>8800360
Ha funny joke

>>8800361
It isn't joke.

>>8800362
That's a sad way to think then that got dark fast everyone deserves a chance and mtfs are still males with mutilated penises you can be who you want but that doesn't chance what you are

>>8800368
Yeah whatever.

>>8800376
It's true though you can't hide from truth

>>8800377
What exactly is truth?

>>8800378
What I said two replys ago if you read it
My point is the truth is sad I learned this the hard way I'm so lonely I have no one

>>8800380
Ok.

>>8800380
Gross hon detected. Anyway OP just asked what dysphoria is like. Don't troll.

>>8800380
>I'm so lonely I have no one
I guess because you can't even stand yourself.

>>8793673
It's a meme for me.

>>8800398
I don't even care anymore opinions don't matter here I could say anything and no one would bat a eye so me being a hon is a opinion(even though I am a guy so )

>>8800441
I care dude