Is race really a social construct?

>>8786665
go live in an all black community and then tell me there are no racial differences, race differences exist it's a fact, any biologist will recognise that just instead of saying this they will try to make it less serious by saying that are ''small differences'' due to marxist ideology being imposed

>>8786703
Would you say that the treatment of james watson, the scientist who co-discovered the structure of dna, is proof that we are a society that builds science around ideology instead of ideology around science?

>>8786745
no, ideology is closely tied to science, for example without the industrial revolution there would be no communism or syndicalism, the same in other matters and even more in USA there was a somewhat popular movement called the technocracy which promised to solve the problems of the great depression through the application of science unto the society, economy and state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

>>8786665
Also as a sidenote for trannies, if both race and gender are social constructs, why is it cultural appropriation to mix and match from different racial things but not from different genders? Why is racial dysphoria not recognized? And why do people think its racist to have a race change but not sexist to have a sex change?

>>8786777
That's more evidence that ideology arises as a response to social development, not that ideology is actually based in concrete science

>>8786783
>Why is racial dysphoria not recognized?

It is! As a kid, I had a "friend" who was a complete asshole to me. And my mother would lecture me that I need to empathize with him about how because he lived in germany for a few years, he was one of those many people, who were generally hostile to me, who had gotten in tune with the optimal way of life, and as a result of that, were expriencing incredible anguish about not being in germany anymore.

But, see, I've discovered I'm feeling racial dysphoria in the other direction, I've discovered that I'm psychically damaged from having lived in krautland, and in order to cure my racial dysphoria, I need to edit out those years I've spent in germany and replace them with ... umm, ones in Italy! Fucking Krauts!

>>8786790
well it does say that ideology most times is tied to science and its effect on society, as such we can see that science is by no way influenced by ideology, I mean some people can try and stop you like it happened to Galileo or Copernic but other than that it does not, even state funded science is not influenced at all by the ideology, you can’t change reality because of the ideology you want to support but indeed ideology it is affected by science as I said without the industrial revolution communism or syndicalism would not exist, without the creation of more resistant ships and the creation of new ways to conserve certain products latter stages of capitalism and global trade would not exist and even mercantilism-imperialism and without science confirming racism groups like the nazis would have had to rely only on prejudices instead of facts, ideology is greatly affected by science and its acceptation by society

>>8786783
>Also as a sidenote for trannies
This should be fun.

>if both race and gender are social constructs
They're not. Nobody gets a sex change over a "social construct." You get a sex change because gender is an expression of innate sex differences in the brain, and being transgender is a result of intersex-like miswiring of sexual dimorphic areas of the brain. E.g. both race and gender are BIOLOGICAL - one is genetic, and one is neurological.

Hope that helped.

>>8786810
*sexually dimorphic, I'm tired.

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>>8786665
>Semites aren't on the map
Are they Asian or Caucasoid?

>>8786783
>>8786806
race dysphoria just like gender dysphoria is the cognitive inability to understand that if you are a german you will always be, these people tend to have low esteem and try to find something they like and build a world of fantasy where they are what they want to be, something that in real life will not be, one of the best examples I could think would be ''black israelites'' due to the black community lack of past, history and culture they try to find something to identify with, as blacks were slaves and jews claim to had been slaves this works into somehow of a bridge between these cultures, will they ever be a israelite? clearly not, as for being one you must descend from the tribes matrilineally and west african blacks clearly do not

>>8786806
I can't tell if this is an attempt to shit on the idea of racial dysphoria or to shit on trannies. If its the former, there are genuinely people who hate their skin color/their people (for one reason or another). My question is, why are people allowed to change genders but not race when nearly all of the arguments against race changes could be used for sex changes? For example, some people say that its wrong because one racial group is more privileged than the other, but they also say that men are more privileged than women. They say that a European will never genetically be an African, but a man will also never genetically be a woman. Not only that, but it would likely be far less harmful to change your melanin levels than it is to change your hormones, which sterilizes you. Could it be that racial self-hatred is basically the same as gender self-hatred?

>>8786817
Caucasoid.

(Not to be confused with "white.")

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>>8786817
they are caucasoid, mongoloids got these very distinctive slit eyes, which clearly arabs/semites do not have, other than this they have a facial and cranial structure more similar to that of caucasoid and more or less the same with their body (but take this with a grain of salt as a lot of arabs have negroid blood due to islam not being against race mixing and the custom of having blacks as slave, which of course meant in case of woman sexual slaves)

>>8786810
Studies on the brain have shown that there is more diversity within genders than there is between them though. How are we sure that differences in brain activity don't actually come from lived experiences?

>>8786828
Hi, the explanation of why this is a retarded /pol/ troll is here: >>8786810

>>8786845
There is more variation within a race than between races, and race still exists. There is more variation within a sex in terms of height than between sexes and males and females are still not the same height. Etc.

>>8786845
All of them? Strikingly unlikely; and we can find some of those sex differences even in children, although others result from hormones during puberty.

>>8786846
Not a troll, genuinely curious, but feel free to hunker down in your ideology farther

>>8786855
I wasn't saying race didn't exist because there's more genetic differences within a race than between, my argument was that because these things are social constructs you could assume that gender dysphoria is from lived experience and that for that same reason racial dysphoria is as legitimate as gender dysphoria

>>8786828
not the one you you are asking but look at my comment at >>8786821
nobody should be able to change race or sex but in the case of race an arab that has a pale skin could well pass as an european but in case of transgenders there is more than looking like the opposite sex, your biological sex is not a thing to play with, it has many things that in medical things could truly fuck you up, more than that sexual reassignment is one of the worst things I have seen I consider it a blotched intent of sex change that only the most desperate try but even after doing so they find themselves prisoners of their ''vagina'' not only they did not get what they wanted, they asked for a vagina and they’ve got an open wound, you are forcing your body to something unnatural, to have an open wound remain open and to make it worse while doing so you are actively fighting your body and its hormonal levels, you are basically destroying yourself this is a great factor in post-op suicides, nobody explained them that it was going to be like this, everybody was very supportive of them and once they did it they found out that all the thing people told them were that, words and only that

>>8786665
>>8786783

As a university accredited social scientist and anthropologist I would just like to point out that the social sciences DO NOT view race as a social construct. Race is a a purely physical state determined by purely physical factors.

The confusion arises when people are not familiar with the terminology.

Here is an example that may be familiar to you:

Sex is a physical fact. Gender is a social construct.

Likewise:

Race is a physical fact. Ethnicity is a social construct.

There is an unfortunately vocal minority that likes to insist that race is a social construct but they are by no means endorsed by the majority of social scientist. That minority is thought of by us, the same way ecologists feel about fellow ecologists who don't believe in climate change.

While I'm here, if you're interested, feel free to ask me anything concerning the humanities.

>>8786828
It's not an attempt to shit on any idea! It's a blunt report of my experiences of highly relevant phenomena! Stop acting delusional about what is and isn't tolleratted.

>>8786783
Literally no tranny believes gender is a social construct. Gender being a social construct is something TERFs say as a prelude to saying you're not a legitimate woman because you didn't receive early childhood indoctrination as one.

>>8786783
>why is it cultural appropriation to mix and match from different racial things
Your premise is faulty right from the get-go though. You've equated cultural appropriation to an imaginary notion of racial appropriation as if to imply that culture begins and ends purely along racial lines.

>>8786863
>ideology
I'm posting the science, you're posting out your ass. Who is hunkered down in their ideology?

>>8786887
LITERALLY NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS. You can genetically distinguish ethnic groups.

>>8787060
I can genetically distinguish you from your mom.

>>8787044
Cultural appropriation is roughly along racial lines, don't pretend that when a 20-something white woman on a liberal leaning blog writes that dreadlocks are cultural appropriation that she means anything other than "this is a black people thing!!!!1!!1"

>>8786810
>nobody gets a sex change over a social construct
What is dysphoria about gender roles then? Dysphoria about appearance based upon what society says is male/female appropriate? Pretty much everything outside of body form and personality is social construct when it comes to gender, yet trans people feel dysphoria about them.

>>8787016
They do though, even trutranners like Blaire regard gender as being separate from sex

>>8787126
That doesn't mean it's a social construct.

>>8786665
>Is race (purely) a social construct?
short answer: no

long answer: yes and no
race is a biological reality, but its importance is often overstated in culture. It also does not align perfectly with our cultural notions of race (usually something like asian, arab, black, white, hispanic). It also isnt as simple as hierarchical diagrams like the one you posted make it seem (although simplification makes things easier to understand), theres lots of intermixing.

>>8787230
Okay well if gender is separate from sex, where does gender come from and why is it not socially constructed when its at least partially based upon conforming to societal standards on what a man/woman looks like?

>>8787060
Ethnicity refers to race in some sense but also encompasses culture, language, religion and regional identities.

That is why in places like Afghanistan there is no central concept of the Afghani race. Many of Western Afghanistan's people have the very same racial markers as the Iranian peoples in neighboring Iran.

Do we say that those groups are the same ethnicity? No!

Because while many Iranian and Afghani people may share the same genetics their languages, cultures and religious practices vary considerably.

>>8786665
no it is not
and if you believe otherwise, you are a retard

>>8786665
Yes and now. The modern concept of race is fucking retarded. "White" "Black" are based around stupid superficial features. Race does affect a lot of what you are, but the scientific definition of race and the layman's are very different.
TL;DR: Some races are better than others, but you can't tell them apart by how much sunscreen they need, that's retarded.

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>>8786665
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism#Populations

Races are a social construct in the sense that calling every red-leaning color in the red-blue spectrum "red" is incredibly inaccurate. When you zoom out to race definitions such as "black" or "white" or even "mongol" you just don't see enough details to make many useful predictions about the group as a whole, some superficial features aside. Two different breeding populations might apparently belong to the same zoomed-out race but have very different traits. A given environment might select for certain traits more often, a given region might have had a high number of intelligent ancestors and so on. The denizens of a certain isolated African village are likely to be distinct from the people living in the cities.

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>>8786665
>>8788396

>>8786783
1) Neither race nor sex are social constructs at their core but a lot of things are socially constructed on top of them.
2) Because Gender Dysphoria has a biological basis. It's a medical condition. Transsexuals have virilized/feminized brains, even before hormones.

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I don't know, you tell me

>>8788622
>>8788634
You misunderstand. Yellow and orange exist, but they rapidly blend together to varying degrees. Calling all yellow-leaning colors in the yellow-orange spectrum "yellow" is immensely misleading.
>>8788396

>>8786783
>gender are social constructs
Most of the people here don't think this. Gender isn't a social construct even if a lot of "gender roles" are to some extent. Transtrenders and blank slate feminists are the only people who seriously think gender is just a social construct.

>>8788674
>I have no counterargument whatsoever, I'll just reply to an image using an example I can take completely out of context to feel like I react to those ebul natzees

Gee whiz you really convinced me

>>8789272
>I have no counterargument whatsoever

>>8789277
Well yeah, of course you don't. That's what I said. You don't need to confirm it.

>>8789780
>I have no counterargument whatsoever

>>8789870
Not him, but you didn't have an argument to begin with :/

>Concrete differences between different macro scale genetic groupings don't exist because outliers on the fringes between different groupings have similarities
Wew

>>8789926
The "colors" begin to meld together almost immediately. There is no "red" race and "blue" race. There are countless combinations of the two. Except that this is the real world so we have many, many different dimensions to consider. Even then we have an enormous amount of variation withing what is supposedly the exact same "color combination" because of short term geographic isolation.

>>8789938
>There is no red or blue, just purple
>See that blue flower? It's actually orange.
> Blue doesn't exist
>Color doesn't exist
I'm really liking this logic so far.
>There is more variation within races than between
Lewontin's fallacy

>>8790008
You have, ye again, failed to follow the argument.
>>8788396

>>8790029
No, you have yet again just repeated the same point over and over again ad infinitum without actually countering refutations.

All that adds to your argument is
>All behavioral and phenotypical differences between populations are due to epigenetics
Which is totally absurd

>>8790048
>No, you have yet again just repeated the same point over and over again ad infinitum without actually countering refutations.
That's because no one has addressed it as of yet.

>All behavioral and phenotypical differences between populations are due to epigenetics
Not at all what I claimed. Pay attention.

>>8790056
>Not at all
Then I guess you don't know what epigenetics is
>The denizens of a certain isolated African village are likely to be distinct from the people living in the cities.
Would be so to epigenetics.
>Unironically citng Steven J Gould.
Wew lad
>No one has refuted it
Probably because you don't even know what you're arguing.

>>8790071
Emphasis on all, m80.

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