FtM bros help me out

>im nonbinary
no such thing faggot

>>8775885
What is non binary

Are you gender fluid ?

>>8776000
>genderfluid
no such thing faggot

>>8775885
>im transmasculine nonbinary.
What the fuck does that even mean? I think you should sort yourself out and stay the fuck away from the internet and far-left people for a while before you consider doing anything like this. Get some fresh air, take trips to parks, try and make some normal friends, it'll do you a world of good, trust me.

>>8776009
>>8776004
>>8776000
>>8775967
all of you didnt even address my question but focused on the fucking gender i said. i like this identity because it captures what i am; i have gender dysphoria therefore im trans, i identify with being masculine much more than feminine, yet i dont feel like a man or a woman, so i just use nonbinary since its encompasses that.

>>8775885
I hope you know you're going to get enormous shit for posting something like this here.

We live in a binary society, and no matter your feelings, you're gonna have to choose between living your life officially as either a man or a woman.

You don't sound like you have that much dysphoria, but I don't know you and I can't make that call for you. The important question is, would you regret it? Would you miss anything about your feminine appearance? How much? Is it worth what you're looking forward to with transition?

Another thing to consider is that HRT means living as a man, since you'll no longer be able to pass as a woman considering what you look like now.
Can you be a man, probably a cisgender man, in the eyes of everyone, 24/7?

>>8776052
>i like this identity because it captures what i am
An idiot that's spent way too much time on the internet?

>>8776058
where would u expect me to have dysphoria to actually be trans?
>can u live as a cis man in the eyes of everyone?
i think i could. i feel like i might actually prefer that rather than how i am now, im just fearful of not wanting that if i go through. im not sure if id be happier or not

>non-binary
Stop that. Pick a gender, faggot.

Anyway, yes. T would deepen your voice, masculinize your face, etc. That's mostly what people know about. But you have to realize it would also change almost every tissue of your body and you can't pick and choose.

If you take T, I can GUARANTEE you will get a hairy buttcrack. It's literally one of the first places that grows hair. You can grow hair just about anywhere (I heard one guy once who was surprised it grew on his shoulders.) I was personally a bit surprised when my nose hair actually got longer - I never heard anyone mention that.

It's a second puberty, so you would undoubtedly have some acne. Just the way it goes. I have personally not had it too bad (except for when my T was too high). I use CeraVe facial cleanser and moisturizers - that's a good brand that actually works with your skin's natural ways of fighting bacteria and doesn't the burn the shit out of your skin and fuck up it's pH balance like a lot of overhyped brands.

Other parts of your skin will also dry out though, so your skin care would change basically head to toe. T even changes how much ear wax you produce, so if you ended up making a lot, you might have to start going to the doc to get it flushed out so your ears don't clog and deafen you.

It's recommended to take vaginal Premarin (that's an estrogen cream that you insert) on T so you don't atrophy; in theory you could smear it on the outside to counteract some clit growth. I actually did that because so many people said they find the bigger clit gross and I was worried about my orgasm, etc. changing. I barely grew, so it might have worked. Or maybe that's genetics. I have no way of knowing, really.

Anyway, yeah. T changes everything. You can't just be a deeper-voiced butch. Get off Tumblr (transmasculine non-binary, seriously, what is this faggotry) and go think about what you really want.

>>8776085
thank you. youre the only one so far to address everything i stated, even if ur not recognizing my gender identity. but youre right like the other commenter, i will have to be seen as either a guy or girl in the eyes of the world. thats the thing im stuggling with most. thats why i like to identify as nonbinary because i literally feel split between the two genders. the reason id transition is because i want to express myself more masculine like. i want to have a chizzled jaw and big muscles and a deep voice. there have also been so many hints in my childhood that i was trans like choosing boy characters in games, wanting my family to call me kevin, fantasizing of being the guy who gets the girl, being a tomboy etc. i dont like having a chest in public, but in bed/private i wouldnt really mind. i dont care about my pussy but i dont want a dick, so thank u for telling me about that estrogen cream id never heard of it.

>>8776058
OP here
i wouldnt miss anything about looking feminine, but im fearful about having to tell all my friends and family members that i am a boy now. and i dont even want to go through changing my documents to say male because i dont care it gives me no discomfort. is that even allowed btw? to transition and not change gender markers?

>>8776072
I never said you weren't trans, and to be honest I don't care. My point is T will change you, and not all of it will be reversible so you gotta be ready and reasonably certain you won't end up disliking the result more than you dislike your dysphoric parts right now.

>i feel like i might actually prefer that rather than how i am now
What's it like now?
Also, could you live your life as a woman fulltime?

>>8776143
>is that even allowed
I hope to God that you're asking that from a legal standpoint, in which case yes, it's allowed. You're still a female, all you're doing is making yourself more masculine, there are non-transexual women out there that no doubt look manlier than you ever will and they don't have any legal trouble so there's no reason that you will provided that you don't lie about your sex to legal institutions.

File: 1503083681943.jpg (169KB, 850x850px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 850x850px

Hey OP, sorry your thread went to shit over some tumblrtalk. We're in a similar situation, you and I. I'm afab, but consider myself a very masculine woman. I like my hair practical, my legs unshaved, and my voice deep and raspy. My clothes are mostly from the male section of the store, and I'm a full blown dyke. I personally wouldn't transition, though, because I feel in touch with my identity as female. It sometimes causes me to feel dysphoric if I /look/ female, but not if I /am/ female, ya dig? I think that's the biggest thing. If you feel like you aren't a girl, you can take steps to be seen as a man. But there's also nothing wrong with being an ultramasculine girl.
I think your look is pretty neat. Whenever I see androgynous people, I feel like I've found other members of whatever alien species I am. My theory is that David Bowie is our nonbinary emperor.

>>8776052
What does feeling like a woman or a man mean to you?
Also, those anons are probably asking because those terms may make you sound "indecisive". Hormonal transition with testosterone produces irreversible changes on you past 6 months, do it's better to be sure you want to do it from the start. You should seek out professional counselling rather than asking a bunch of fags and trannies on an anime imageboard, maybe ask around in your local lgbt/tttt groups

>>8776156
>>8776156
>>>8776072 (You)
>T will change you, and not all of it will be reversible so you gotta be ready and reasonably certain you won't end up disliking the result more than you dislike your dysphoric parts right now
do you have any idea how i could go about figuring this out without actually taking T and seeing what i look like before i irreversibly change?
>What's it like now?
>Also, could you live your life as a woman fulltime?
this is hard. i look so masculine i pass sometimes but when i dont i get a little dysphoric. i think that theres a limit to how masculine i can look without T which is why i want to take it because my comfort spot is further than being a dyke lesbian. i think that i could maybe live as i am now, because this is the furthest ive gotten from my previous dysphoric appearance.

File: steve-urkel.jpg (92KB, 600x500px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 600x500px

>>8775885
Do an Uriel impression or else ya get gutted.

>>8776192
*Urkel
Fucking auto-correct

>>8776160
>>8776143
It's legally allowed, but it will most likely make OP's life very difficult.
I'm in a country where transition is possible but ID / administrative sex change is not, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Also, while it's not illegal, I've been to court over it more than once. Passing well as a cismale while carrying a female ID led to accusations of fraud or identify theft at several points in my life, two of which went all the way to court.
That's why it's important for OP to be prepared to eventually live fully as a man if they choose to transition. Being stuck in the middle isn't a good life.

>>8776175
this. i relate very much. i dont feel attached to being male or female which is why im struggling to decide to transition. i could probably live as an ultramasculine dyke but i wonder if id be happier and less dysphoric as a trans guy because i dont know where the masculinity ends. i still want to look like a boy.

>>8776184
im planning to see a gender therapist in a few days actually but i still wanna hear some opinions from the community. idk what feeling like either is like desu. thats the million dollar question. if u can explain what it feels like to be a man or woman to me maybe i could decide but idk how to answer that.

>>8776085
>You can grow hair just about anywhere (I heard one guy once who was surprised it grew on his shoulders.)
tfw late twenties maab and just started getting shoulder hair

>>8776118
Listen, basically all trans people are "in-between" to some degree; it's the nature of the disorder, we're pretty much neurologically intersex. But there isn't a third gender in society. That's why we're all so annoyed at your "non-binary" thing. There's nothing special or different about that, it's just asking other people to constantly accommodate the smaller nuances of this disorder. Just pick whichever gender you hate the least, don't ask other people to acknowledge a third.

>>8776219
thats the thing. i literally cant choose. idk what feeling like a man or woman means. if u can explain it i might be able to give an answer but otherwise i dont feel like either.

if i were to compare them, i prefer the male appearance much much much more, but i like having a pussy and sometimes boobs. does that make any sense

>>8776208
I'm >>8776175
To me gender is like an anchor. Some part of my identity that can always remain as a foundation to build whatever I want on top. I look back at my life, and the choices I've made, and the way I acted, and I feel like I've been a female. Not your typical female, but a female nontheless. I love being a lesbian instead of straight. I love being able to femme up sometimes, but keeping my legs unshaved ofc. Being a female makes sense to how I want to relate to others, and how others relate to me. I also feel like it can be a good challenge for me, to try to earn respect and work hard in my occasionally confining female body.
Maybe it's not the same for you, idk. As that other anon suggested, I think seeing someone who specializes in this stuff is the best idea.

>>8776208
>if u can explain what it feels like to be a man or woman to me maybe i could decide

Before transition, thinking of myself as a woman gave me a feeling like I was shriveling up and dying. It felt suffocating and I'd find myself physically gasp for air. Thinking of myself as a man made me incredibly happy and it felt like I was blooming and striving, healthier than ever.
Women also always seemed to me like these strange people who weren't like. I dont know how to define women, but I know we're not the same, I don't understand them, I can't fit in there despite years trying to do that. Same with my anatomy, on top of dysphoria, I simply didn't relate to it.
Every morning when I was still half asleep and stretching in my bed, it was always a harsh reality check to realize I had boobs and no dick. Because my sleepy mind expected to see them there, and seeing my abnormally female body was like an ice cold shower.

Now, post transition, seeing myself as a man doesn't do anything to me anymore. I already live that life. Seeing myself as a woman became sort of a kink, and also I've started thinking I was damn fucking hot when I wasn't on T. I mean, I'd date myself in a heartbeat. I wake up without giving a second thought to my body because it's mine, and doesn't feel alien anymore. I find myself relating and fitting in with men naturally ; all I have to do is let go of the gender roles I was taught as a girl, and be myself. It's much simpler.

I feel like anyone relating to nonbinary and genderfluid should just refer to themselves as androgynous male/female/ftm/mtf
and calling yourself androgynous implies you aren't expecting people to call you by anything special. (the problem with nb is that it does the opposite)
I'm personally a male considering hormones to look less masculine. but I'm lost when people expect others to use they/it or something like that. noone will say that cause they don't want to be rude.

Reading the whole thread, you sound more like an ftm than a non-binary whatever, fampai. I'd advice you to take T and take care of your appearence, turn into a metro

>>8776052
it encompasses a shit load of things besides that
that, example, you are a feminist or that at least you agree with them. wich is fine but today's feminists are seen as agressive, unapologetic and well intentioned extremists (their views more often than not are exaggerated (or at least the ones that everyone is aware of, like the hugh mungus incident for example)
it also implicitly encompasses that you agree with the opression argument, and that someone outhere is putting in male and female boxes to fuck with us (that someone being the patriarchy or white cis males)

everyone here is retarded, gender is not binary but nothing is. the concept of there being an opposite to everything is in our human nature, it makes understanding the world easier. the thing is that feminists are loud and angry and nobody likes them so no one is going to agree with them wich is a shame but it is to be expected
overall male and female indicate to what extreme you are closer to, because biologically no one is in the exact middle and even if the lines are blurry the "gradiant" is pretty clear. you are born with either a dick or vag (unless something goes wrong)

the gradient is just a metaphor, it represents gender better than "binary". gender is made up so it will never show you the whole picture but knowing everything there is to know about someone's gender is never necessary, a simple "male" and "female" is, or at least, was enough
maybe its time to be more flexible about it, but the way the feminist went to accomplish that accomplished the exact opposite.

im just venting, I feel like no one shares my opinion because they are too busy arguing. that being said, fuck feminists lol

>>8776264
thabk you for your insight.

>>8776263
i dont completely disagree with you desu.

>>8776257
i feel the same as you in terms of naturally fitting in with guys. all my guy friends pretty much see me as another dude and i can tell. my ex gf used to say that she felt like she was dating a guy because of how i act and carry myself. she said she noticed early on that i would watch men interact and sort of copy that to learn how to be a guy i guess.

but with the female thing you said, i dont feel disgusted with myself im just content.

>>8776186
Unfortunately there's no such thing as a life simulator allowing you to experience the effects of T. It would be awesome though.
I think you should wait and think on it. Maybe you'll get to a point where your comfort zone is completely out of reach without T and you have to take it, or maybe you'll find a comfortable way to live without T.
Since it's a big decision and you don't seem to be overwhelmingly on one side or another, it's probably best to put that issue on the back burner for a while and let it mature on its own.

>>8776287
my gay guy friend actually td me about how hes working with a professor to create a simulator thing for nonbinary people to see themselves as they think they should look which is pretty dope

>maybe youll get to a point where your comfort zone is completely out of reach without T and you have to take it
thats kinda what im trying to test rn. im working out to see if having muscles might change how i feel, which i doubt. and the thing is i feel like im on the edge of my comfort zone and based on my past thats a lot of progress. but im not sure if transitioning would be the sweet spot of that comfortability and i wouldnt ever know unless i take T.
ive contemplated this for almost 3 years now which is why im seeing a gender therapist about it next week

>>8775885
OP I bet you would get a lot of benefit from lifting weights. You will get big and strong, without exogenous T, if you do basic barbell training, eat correctly, and sleep enough. In my experience, weight training not only makes me huger but also improves my mental well-being and decreases dysphoria. Plus it doesn't cause the side effects of T you say you don't want. Then of course if you do eventually elect to go on T then it will improve your gainz all the more.

>>8775885
https://archive.is/jehUx

Dr. Kathleen “Kelly” Levinstein, PhD, LCSW, LMSW is a Professor of Social Work at the University of Michigan, Flint. Among many other accomplishments, Dr. Levinstein was a Heilbein Scholar at the NYU School of Social Work, where she also taught, and has directed and provided clinical services for people with disabilities for many years, primarily in New York and New Jersey. A clinical and research social worker for 40 years, Dr. Levinstein describes herself as “the only out autistic PhD level social worker” in the world. Her research and advocacy work includes human and civil rights violations against the autistic community.

My daughter, who is on the autism spectrum, as am I, is now 19 years old. She had felt (and told others) that she was a lesbian most of her life. When she was 16, she began watching a TV show called “Degrassi,” which featured an FtoM character. After a few weeks, she announced that she was not actually a butch lesbian, as she had previously said, but was in fact trans. She started attending a local PFLAG meeting, where she met many trans people, including a number of FtoM trans teenagers who were raving about a certain “gender therapist.” Although the APA recommends a minimum of one year of “gender counseling” before surgery, this gender therapist (whom I consented to, before really understanding what I was doing) gave my daughter the go-ahead to have a bilateral mastectomy after only two sessions. This gender specialist never reviewed any of the Special Ed records or spoke to my daughter’s previous therapist, who had known her for a decade. And, crucially, she never asked my daughter, “Might you be a lesbian?”

>>8776408
The gender therapist (whom I believe has an unholy financial alliance with the surgeon) gave my daughter (then 18 and one day) the go-ahead for the $30,000 surgery (covered for all university employees and their families where I work). My daughter is now on testosterone (which she clearly is unable to evaluate the risks and consequences of).

To give you some sense of my daughter’s level of understanding of what it means to transition, she told me recently that she believes that the testosterone “will grow her a penis.” I had to break the news to her that, although this is the mythology in the PFLAG meetings (where a number of the other young trans people are also autistic), this is not the case.

She has been taken advantage of. Healthy organs were amputated. This is insurance fraud, poor clinical practice, a violation of APA standards, unethical and unjust. It is a crime not just against women, but particularly against disabled women. So many of these young women who are “transitioning” are also autistic.

My daughter has a representative payee on her SSDI [disability] check, as it was felt that she was unable to handle her own money. This was of little concern to the gender therapist. I believe that once the therapist realized the “treatment” would be covered by the University of Michigan insurance, it was full speed ahead.

>>8776411
Other than Degrassi, the PFLAG meetings–which are now the cult of trans–sealed her fate. There were no young lesbians there. In fact, there are very few young lesbians left–they are all transitioning. If she had been able to have a lesbian relationship prior to transitioning I believe that things would have transpired differently. I attempted to get her in a support group for young lesbians when she was 12, but was informed that because of liability insurance reasons, she was not welcome until age 18. By that time it was too late.

She had a legal name change in Dec of 2014, a bilateral mastectomy in April 2015, and started testosterone in Sept 2015. My daughter has severe Crohn’s Disease, and currently, she is having grave reactions to the testosterone. She has been hospitalized three times now for complications.

I DO believe that there is an overlap with the autistic and transgender populations. Some studies show a higher level of testosterone in autistic human beings. For males a high enough level of testosterone converts to estrogen. This may explain the large number of autistic people of both sexes claiming that they are transgender.

>>8776414
Given that your daughter was recently hospitalized for health issues related to her use of testosterone, have you found any medical professionals who are willing to speak up about this?

I have found no health professionals willing to go on the record against this. Everyone is afraid of professional suicide and threats of violence. I am standing alone.

My daughter’s latest hospitalization has been described by doctors as due to “absorption issues.” She now has a full beard but still has her period. The testosterone is wreaking true havoc on her system.

Autistic women (again, I am one) frequently have a difficult time, sensory-wise with their periods. But rather than attempting to help us with this difficulty, our problems get labeled “gender dysphoria” and the answer has become to remove our periods from us.

We will find out in 20 years the effects of testosterone on our young women. I am confident that it will not be a pretty picture.

Mass reporting posts you dislike won't save you from the fact that your daughter is a legal adult and capable of making her own decisions by a court of law. Enjoy lawyering up for a mother's empty nest quest all on folly.

>>8776416
Young FtM have been taking T under doctor supervision for more than two centuries now, depending on countries. They didn't wait for it to be advertised as it is now, and surely did it before without anyone's knowledge.

Get with the program, grandma radfem. FtMs aren't anything new.

>>8776451
Some parents just *cannot handle the fact* that their child is an independent unit now. They start blaming popular media, support groups, doctors, the medical health industrial complex, all tying together into crazed /pol/-lite conspiratard nonsense where "they" (read: anyone with a differing opinion that isn't the parent's) are the only ones stopping you from having the child you always "wanted".

>>8775885
>nonbinary
kill yourself and save the world exposure to your stupid.

>>8776416
Exercise has been effective at stopping periods.

>>8776143
MTF here.
MAN THE FUCK UP.

>>8776275
fucking nobody ever cares about my opinions, ever. and I always have the best opinions

fuck you

ftm here. OP, I'm pretty sure the effects of testosterone would make you hate your body much more than you do now. I fully desire all the changes I've gone through in the 10 months I've been on T--the all-over body hair, no period, clit enlargement, voice drop, rough skin, strength boost, social transition, etc. If you don't want the "undesired" effects then DON'T TRANSITION. Many of the 'undesired' effects of testosterone you mentioned are IRREVERSIBLE. If you don't want that, don't do it. It's easier to live a life in a healthy woman's body like you have anyhow. Listen to the other anon--if you don't like the shape of your body, get to dieting and exercizing. It'll give you the extra masculinity you seek (and make you even healthier!) without irreversibly changing your body chemistry on hormones.

>>8775885
>no hairy ass
>no oily acne skin
>no musk
T isn't for you.

>>8776539
tbqhon this

>>8775885
Is muhammad ali your mansona?

File: you-have-to-go-back.gif (348KB, 350x233px) Image search: [Google]

348KB, 350x233px

>>8776052
welcome to 4chan
now get out

If you have to ask other people if you should take such an important and life altering step in your own life, the answer is usually no. if you don't want to be a MAN and all that comes with it (hairy as fuck everywhere, deep ass voice, huge clit, no chance of ever passing as female/androgynous, several severe health risks) then don't take male hormones. it's also hard as fuck to get HRT and requires a lot of therapy, it's not something you just wake up and decide "hm, I feel like making my vagina atrophy, time to go to the tranny store and get man pills"

>>8775885
>non binary
>>>/mental institution/

>>8775885
Hey OP,

You won't go bald if you take Finasteride with T.

Male-pattern baldness is from Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) production, which is a 5-Alpha-Reductase product of testosterone. Finasteride inhibits 5-AR and therefore DHT production.

Idk about all the other stuff though, not FTM myself. It sounds like there's more positives than negatives though, so there's that. But then I personally hate all those things lol

>>8776701
>>8777555
>>8777932
This. If you want a clear, hairless dry skin and a hairless ass, being a man is not for you. (cis)Guys without acne look sort of weird or feminine imo.

Don't listen to >>8777968 . Fin is not well researched and many swear that it gave them permanent sexual dysfunction. DHT is also essential for building muscle.

>>8778005
>Not well researched
>Number one hair loss medication for men
Alright anon.

You're not wrong about the possible sexual dysfunction, but that's for MEN, not afab non-binaries. He/They don't have DHT to being with, so it's not like any sexual dysfunction will pop-up as a result of it.

As for the muscle, I don't really know but am dubious about how critically essential it is. It's primary function is secondary sexual characteristics, not muscle hypertrophy. I'm not saying it doesn't do that, it's basically just super-testosterone, but testosterone should regulate muscle growth just fine without it.

Verify that with an endocrinologist first, they'll know more than 4chan pseudo-intellectuals like this anon and myself.

>>8775885
Just came in here to say you're a qt, OP. That's it though, I have no experience with gender dysphoria :/

>>8778054
>dude women don't need manly things like test and erections for sex. Estrogen is the female sex hormone xD
Common misconception
Birth control literally shuts down women's sex drive and drys their vaginas because it blocks test. On the other hand Cialis and Viagra work just as well for women as for men.

>>8775885
>i dont mind being hairy that much, just not in the butt or back or weird places.
You don't get to choose. Most men develop both. Butt hair comes first, back hair quite a bit later.
>im scared to go bald
Is your dad balding? How about your grandfathers? If not, there's nothing to worry about.
>want my skin to be acne and oil free
Ask close male relatives (brothers, dad) how much acne they got during puberty.
>i don't want to have rougher skin,
Too bad. Skincare helps, but only goes so far. Again, look at close male relatives.
>a new smell
Eh, don't worry about that. That's something you'll get used to very quickly.

It sounds like T isn't a bad choice for you, but only if you can either come to terms with the downsides or your genetics make those downsides unlikely.