What do you feel towards feminism? Include your letter.

>>8755508
T
I honestly don't give a shit about feminism or identity politics in general.

I think it is totally appropriate for any GBT person to hate feminism. When gay liberation started male homosexuality was seen by feminism as the ultimate form of misogyny. Feminist also helped block health care bills during the aids crisis because they were sexist (aids was effecting men not women so why treat it?) Obviously trans people can hate feminism, we have this thread every day. Bisexual women were attacked by feminists for being breeders, back when being a political lesbian was a thing.

As a community we are LGBT not because lesbians have it worst, they are LGBT easy mode, we are LGBT because feminists wanted women first. Gay men started the movement (transvestites and transsexuals were considered gay men) Gay men were the ones being killed in the streets, beaten and locked up if they went to the cops, fired from their jobs if found out. But Lesbians are self centered creatures so the demanded to be first, then when asked about what problems they have they said they had none and proceeded to hit their girlfriend and eat a whole cake. You cannot be the worlds fattest people and oppressed.

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>>8755589
Was Marsha a hon?

>>8755589
>When gay liberation started male homosexuality was seen by feminism as the ultimate form of misogyny. Feminist also helped block health care bills during the aids crisis because they were sexist (aids was effecting men not women so why treat it?)
>Bisexual women were attacked by feminists for being breeders, back when being a political lesbian was a thing.
links?

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Destructive

Women and men where meant to work in tandem, not in conflict with one another. Both inhabiting different but overlapping spheres of the social experience. The woman should support and compensate for the faults of her man, and so too should the man do the inverse. In this way, the pairing becomes something far greater than simply two individuals. And this strength is what is needed to raise a good and proper family.

>>8755695
In what ways do they each compensate and support the other?

>>8755607
No, he was a drag queen who identified as male, thought about transitioning but chose to say male because unlike some of his friends he was not trans. Regardless, at the time they were all seen as gay because trans identity was not a thing.

G

Apparently I'm sexist for detesting women. Like bitch you are an alien species and I don't wanna be near that.

>>8755589
I'm a gay dude who barely pays attention, but even I know there are several different kinds of feminism. What you are describing sounds like radical feminism. I think it's hypocritical to pretend they are a unified hive-mind while also pointing out that the "lgbt community" has diverse opinions and interests.

Like I said, I'm barely paying attention, but I think 2nd wave liberal feminism was alright... they seemed the most laid-back and sane anyway.

Now we have 3rd wave "Intersectional feminism".. which is literally batshit fucking insane and promotes that logic and reason are akin to rape and everything is only about "feelings".

>>8755728
>be gay
>still be a white knight

>>8755508
B

I believe in men and women being equal under the law, but typically feminists only pretend to believe in this ideal. Feminists are not concerned by the courts of criminal law treating the female criminals far more gently than their male counterparts. Feminists are not concerned about men being injured or killed in hazardous jobs or military service. Feminists are only concerned about playing victim, it seems.

MtF lesbian here

I LOVE feminism. it's important to combat misogyny wherever we can and to call out systems of rape and oppression

feminism is literally about equality and if you're against that you don't belong in the modern world

>>8755733
Oh right, because I like to fuck dudes I should just be a fucking ignorant retard who doesn't know or care anything about what over half the world's population is up to.
I forgot, thanks for reminding me. I'll go back to sucking dick now.

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>>8755508
I used to read RadFem books all the time when I was in an unhealthy spot, but I think that ultimately they helped me.

T

I think a lot of feminism is good. There are some sects I disagree with, but I do think it's an overall positive force.

I don't like when people use the name of feminism to do things like fight people opening homeless shelters for men, or abuse shelters for men. Feminism should be about elevating women, not hurting men just for the sake of hurting them.

I also disagree with the ones who think trans women are just men trying to get into female spaces.

G

I don't think about feminism, I don't give attention to feminism, I don't care about feminism.

And why should I care about it?

I personally wouldn't call myself a feminist because I've seen too many people use the label to define behaviour and beliefs I don't think are rational or morally sound.

I believe in gender equality with common sense caveats.

If Feminism is overall a positive force, why are women becoming more and more miserable?

>>8755508
G

I limit my interaction with women because of it. I'm also cautious of FtMs because they're still women and very likely to be too sensitive.

>>8756198
Because ignorance is bliss.

>>8756198
They're not.
That's just media spin.

T

It's great
get reading
I know it's scary but please try
http://www.laboriacuboniks.net/

T

Feminism was good until the third wave. Now it's just a whingefest for privileged cis women

>>8755508
Very necessary while we still live in a white mans patriarchy.
Women are still oppressed and victimised in our society.
Until equality happens, women and minorities still need organisations to support them and oppose the white heterosexual patriarchy.

>>8756454
Oh I'm a Cis gay male btw.

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>>8755757
>when I was in an unhealthy spot,
>when
whatever you say hon

>>8756463
different unhealthy spot

Feminism together with Dialectical Materialsm has probably the only proper way to explain trans people (gender as performance/ a social relation) so it's pretty cool

>>8756456
>Like pussy that much
closet translesinan detected

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L

It's great we can vote and everything but modern-day feminism is a terrible abstract performance art piece, at best. Exclusion and hatred gets you nowhere good. I look like a pretty hallmark feminist, with short hair and leg hair and being a total dyke and all, but I cringe when people call me a feminist. All I want is for men and women to live harmoniously. Women aren't this half-man half-child species, they should be able to act like adults and pull their own fucking weight. This is how women will get respect. It's a two way street.

>>8756519
You need to learn to differentiate between different types of feminism.

>>8756535
The good kind is first wave or something right? I don't really care for semantics. I just try to set as good an example as I can and raise up fellow women when they're down, while working at my own independence. There's always going to be shitty and close minded people who are sexists and racists and whatnot, but I can't control their thoughts and opinions. I can only hope to positively influence them in a passive way.

>>8756547
It's not so much the whole 1st/2nd/3rd wave thing that's important but rather the overall place where it tries to fit in, what is the larger picture being painted with the things your version of feminism is connected. You really sound like a basic liberal feminist who has problems with radical feminists, I'm an anarcha-feminist and none of these groups will agree with each other.

>>8756559
I just don't understand all of this infighting. We should all be working towards a common goal of respect and empathy. Feminism has become a multi-headed hydra that is tearing itself apart, and I don't want to be included in that. As stupid and hippy as it sounds, I just want everyone to get along. Our time on this planet is so, so short.

>>8756595
that is kind of hippy. Non-understanding is not an intelectual position on anything. There is, in fact, a difference between bad things and good things

>>8756595
>I just want everyone to get along
but radicals don't

>>8756595
Well that's not how it goes down unfortunately, feminism doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's going to be a part of a wider worldview, and those wider worldviews will be in conflict as long as conditions of domination and authority remain.

B, T, and feminism is societal rot. Fully explaining why would take several posts; but suffice to say that men and women are NOT "equal" in any sense outside of considering human beings to be of equal worth. We don't have equal aptitudes, and the idea that every profession should be 50% men and 50% women is absolutely cancer. In addition to this, women abandoning the home has resulted in the West experiencing a fertility crisis, oversaturation of numerous job markets, and a deterioration of family structure. The latter in particular has really far-reaching effects on children (one of which is that children who aren't raised in a home with a stable heterosexual marriage and parents frequently available is that kids grow up increasingly unlikely to be able to maintain stable marriages THEMSELVES). Even women's suffrage was likely a mistake, as women tend to vote for candidates who promise more benefits for single moms (contributing to the breakdown of the family unit) and who are soft on border control (endangering their nations), among other flaws. The only women who don't do this as a majority group are married women - thus their votes are largely redundant echoes of their husband's.

That said, most people who don't like feminism generally haven't really thought about it, have never read feminist authors themselves, don't know any history, can't even keep the waves straight, etc. So I don't like talking to plenty of them, since it makes me want to drive their heads into the wall.

>>8756443
^ Then again, nasty patronizing cunts like this exist.

>>8756424
>peer-reviewed research is media spin

>>8756480
>modern medicine has nothing to say about trans people
>we need sociological theory invented by people who went into Women's Studies instead of STEM

>>8758735
STEMfags belong on the cross, enjoy your quotas and Indians.

>>8756127
>gender equality with common sense caveats
Sounds like feminism to me.

Where "common sense caveats" mean keeping special treatment for women.

T

I consider myself a feminist, but I don't see with good eyes what has happened with the movement in some parts of the world (specially murrika).
For me, it's impossible to be an actual feminist without having some sort of notion of class struggle. I mean you theoretically (and practically, apparently) can, but it seems that you just end up being an identity politics apologetic that non-ironically believes that Michelle Obama is a less priviledged person than a white cis male redneck that lives in a trailer. It's just idiotic.

>>8759071
>that non-ironically believes that Michelle Obama is a less priviledged person than a white cis male redneck that lives in a trailer.
Intersectionality.

>>8755508
L

Feminism is pretty great desu, there are parts of the movement I don't agree with but without it I wouldn't have most of the rights I do today. A lot of the anti-feminist stuff I see online is based on strawmen that's the opposite of what I see IRL...stuff like saying feminists don't support male abuse victims or whatever, when in my experience in school, university and the workplace it was 90% feminists that were opposed to stuff like that and 90% straight male anti-feminists who would say shit like "hurdurr what a pussy that 11-year-old boy who was fucked by his female teacher is for telling the police, should have manned up and been grateful".

>>8755508
In theory I don't see anything wrong with feminism. In practice, it's turned into a total oppression olympics shitfest. Instead of bringing societal problems to the attention of others, they try to figure out which generalized group has it the worst in society and tries to lay blame on some other generalized group. It's like a bunch of 5 year olds complaining about who got the more ice cream than the other.

It's not just feminism though, it's pretty much any social movement doing the same thing, primarily because they saw how well it worked for feminism. Feminism complained its way to basically being the morality police of the western world and now everyone wants a piece of that. Hell, the entire white supremacist movement is a reaction to them seeing feminism (more precisely, it's direct racial spin-off, BLM movement) bitch and complain, blame others, and attack opponents to the point of destroying lives and in the end getting their way.

>>8759130
Show me one feminist ever who supported equality when it was disadvantageous to cis women.

You can't.

>>8759154
I think some (maybe most, not really sure) probably supported women being added to selective services (or removal of selective service entirely) in America.

I don't remember seeing a single rally or march demanding it be instituted though. And therein lies the problem. Feminism can claim it's in favor of equality for men and women, but they only seem to really speak up on matters of women's equality and are happy to pay lip services to men's equality so they can claim they actually support both to the same degree.

>>8759175
>I think some
>probably
AKA none.

>(or removal of selective service entirely)
Doesn't disadvantage women. When there's an actual war on and they were worried about winning, they supported it.

>but they only seem to really speak up on matters of women's equality and are happy to pay lip services to men's equality so they can claim they actually support both to the same degree.
Exactly. It's not pretty great desu, it's pretty bigoted desu. It's the movement for female privilege.

>>8755508
G
I like and don't mind to indirectly support it :3

should I become feminist if Im selfhating and repressing ?

>>8755728
Well, congratulations on not paying attention. "laid-back and sane" 2nd wave feminism literally attempted to genocide trans people and is literally the feminism that anon is talking about--the feminism that demonized gay men and transwomen. Intersectional feminism is built upon the sins of the past.

Now, yes, there are "feminists" who just want equality and think bad things happening to women are wrong and should be changed. But those aren't feminists in the academic or organizational sense.

You can't compare it to the LGBT. It's more comparable to a political ideology or a religion. Being LGBT doesn't make you believe specific things, necessarily. Being a feminist, that has foundational literature, foundational figures, philosophical and cultural influences, etc. "Sane feminists" have to reconcile the sanity of their views with the rhetoric and arguments made by those who guide the ideology in official capacities. The people who push agendas.

This very fact is why you get lots of infighting in feminism. Attacks on "white feminism", attacks on "cis feminism", etc, because while there can be diverse opinions people always try to find the thread that connects everything.

That thread is being "literally batshit fucking insane", advocating for the abolishment of homosexual men and trans women, that everything is rape, etc, and all the reasonable things are only tertiary to the ideology. If one is a sane feminist, one would have to ask why they are a feminist at all if they do not read the literature, know the history, and do not follow the dogma.

>>8759433
Anyways, by the way, T. Smash feminism.

Not because MRA, but because fuck a hegemonic ideology that thinks it can dictate what being trans means. The word "transgender" only exists as a way for feminists to control the identity of trans people. Of course I wouldn't use transsexual, but the reason for the change WAS to lean much harder on the burgeoning feminist field of 2nd wave Gender Theory. Trans / Gender, and in that word you have a direct reference to Gender Theory to be """more accurate""" to what fat cis white lesbian womyn thought gender meant.

Gender Theory hasn't undergone any radical, foundational changes since it was first brought about. Feminists were already deadset on dismantling the notion of gender in a postmodernist critique, but that critique was a critique made by and for cis women. Dead white cis women. Not to be SJW, but fuck them, they do not own my humanity. Their ideology may be their savior, but it's not mine: feminism demonized trans people and fought against our rights, and by some estimates has had a hand in the death of tens of thousands of trans people due to their actions against trans health care.

I don't understand how any trans person can go without seriously questioning why they would follow such an ideology that posits to define the core of their being FOR them, and that in the past has attempted a near literal genocide on their kind. It's like a Jewish Nazi. Are you sure this is the club for you?

Nothing has changed fundamentally in the approach to gender, and therefore the approach to trans people. In the past they wanted us gone, because we reified social constructs. Now instead we just have a flood of """"""trans""""""" people who don't need silly things like dysphoria to be trans, so if you do have dysphoria there's nothing at all true about your presentation, it's JUST presentation, simply relative identity bereft of any innate meaning. If everyone's trans, then no one is trans, and gender is abolished.

>>8759180
the best part is how they blindly hate and are terribly scared of any man-rights even when it's about legitimate issues that dont disadvantage women in any way
and its easy to get why - feminism is a tool in hands of those who profit from suppressing and exploiting men

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>>8755526
Don't you love the LGBT mafia?

>>8759453
Feminism are forced to hate male rights even when men can gain without women losing their privileges, because if men get the idea sexism isn't 100% in their favor, who knows where it will end? Men will get ideas and that can only be bad for female privilege/feminism.

>>8755728
3rd wave isn't bad, there are just some loud crazies who would do better on the radfem side

>>8759115
Wrong, money and class play into it as well but if a white man was basically the same as Michelle in everyway, except the obvious, she would be viewed less favorably by others

>>8759462
>boycotting, like every movement ever, is mafia behavior
Hey retard, how's that war on Christmas going?

I like it. I think it is good and right. There are some bad apples though. Fuck TERFs.
t. t

T

a cool general negativity

Ftm
I definitely believe in equality, and I would consider myself a feminist, but I'm hesitant to label myself one just because of the meaning other people might confer to it and the stereotypes of male feminists.
Also by equality, I don't mean gender quotas in STEM fields or anything stupid like that. I mean treating people as individuals, not as just a member of their gender.

>>8763131
Trust me, there is nothing male feminists could do to create a worse impression than female feminists already have.

Anyway if I wanted to stereotype you it would be for being natal female.

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>>8756447
>T liking 2nd wave feminism
I wish this meme of people who don't like feminism, saying that they think 2nd wave feminism is better, would die.
It's the same shit as when people complain about BLM being violent and point to MLK/the civil rights movement as paragons of peaceful change; all it shows is that you know very little about either group.

Another weird meme from people who care way too much about how other people's lives are set up.

>>8763213
Fine then, Mandela is black rights done right.

>>8763213
Instead of telling me to an hero you could try to convince me of your position
And you're right I don't know much about feminism because I never really looked into it and don't consider myself one

>>8763213
when was mlk violent?

>>8763276
A nigger terrorist?

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>>8755508
Feminism isn't really the problem, women as a whole are. Feminism is only the latest outward expression of the disgusting evil filth known as the eternal female.

>>8755746
you sound like a troll trying to make t look like stupid authoritarians
if real, pls stop being a stupid authoritarian

>>8763434
do trannies get to stay?

>>8763285
I said i wished the meme would die not you.
Most complaint's against feminists i see from transgender people tend to be knowingly or unknowingly leveled at a small subgroup of 'modern' feminists that other feminists label TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists), TERFs believe that transwomen are men, at best they believe that they are men trying to invade womens spaces, at worst they believe they are rapist 'wolves in sheep's clothing'.
2nd wave were TERFs generally speaking, especially the case for feminists who still call themselves 2nd wave today.
TERFs hate 3rd wave feminism because it's trans inclusion.

>>8763581
Depends

>>8764034
The meme will die when feminism makes up it's mind about whether "gender" is or is not a performance. It is entirely logically inconsistent at present.

>>8758739
>scientific advances that allow me to live in anything other than a mud hut, REEEEEE

>>8763276
literally a terrorist...

I don't mean that in the crazy Nazi "all black rights people are terrorists" type of way either. I don't hold with that shit. But Mandela was objectively a terrorist. Everyone forgets that because he looks like this kindly old grandpa guy, but he was directly responsible for a number of deaths.

C'mon, man. Learn your history.

>>8755508
g
its redundant, we dont need it anymore
if anything we need actual equality

I think its a waste of potential, it washes the brain of people with good intentions
if feminism wasnt as agressive, unapologetic and toxic everything would be different, they pretend they are the good guys but they dont act like it

thats how the alt-right was born and how trump got elected
people saw feminists and they thought "this people say they are good but they are bad, we need the total opposite of whatever they are fighting for"

basically everyone is retarded and we should all kill ourselves

>>8755508

T

I don't mind liberal feminism, every social justice movement has its crazies that shame the rest of the community but there are some fundamental issues that I think warrant thought.

I often feel as if radfem is too experimental, some of the more extreme radfem literature I've read seems more like wanton mental masturbation that only goes unchecked because it has never been practiced as a social model for society before. Although I think it's interesting.

I can kind of understand some TERFs, but for the most part I think TERFism is intellectualised fear and disgust. It combines a conspiracy theorist mindset with extreme entitlement and sketchy pseudo psychology to "justify", it wouldn't annoy nearly as much if people's lives weren't being ruined by the day because of it. I've found that the best way of convincing most TERFs to accept transpeople is to simply show them that trans people are people too, this, along with the fact that this also works when converting god fearing abrahamists, shows that TERFism is mostly rooted in ignorance, shallow disgust and a lack of empathy.

Don't believe me? Head over to /r/gendercritical and observe how most of them talk about trannies as if they're animals, I can understand and sympathise with the few that don't display that behavior however, as their beliefs usually comes from a belief in the importance of bioessentialism and semantics.

>>8755757
In what ways?

>>8765339
>we should all kill ourselves
opinion discarded

>>8764816
>But Mandela was objectively a terrorist. Everyone forgets that because he looks like this kindly old grandpa guy, but he was directly responsible for a number of deaths.
Who did he kill then?

>>8755508
T

I like the idea of sexually assertive women, too bad they don't exist real life. If feminism could hurry up and break down that gender role it'd be swell. Other than this, I don't really care about feminism or LGBT politics in general.

Male bisexual radfem. Fight me

>>8756443
>http://www.laboriacuboniks.net/

I couldnt read anything because that design raped my eyes and gave me cancer at the same time.

>>8758739
>STEMfags belong on the cross

Now this deeply triggered me, not every fucking country has quotas and Indians.