Physical signs of being trans?

>>8755098
big feet/hands 99% of the time

Penis.

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Long hair with no definite style.

Try spotting the pre-hrt trans girl in this pic.

>>8755100
That's retarded, most men would be trannies then.

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>>8755111
My eyes instantly darted to the left. The guy behind him seems way too close for comfort.

Ring and index finder being the same or the index is shorter than the ring. Opposite for masc females.

Lack of development during puberty.

Might be intersex.

>>8755121
>Implying most men have long hair with no definite style

You're either considering a crew or live in femboyopolis

>>8756125
*considering a crew cut as long

>>8756125
>>8756131
They were quoting the post about feet

>>8756137
Apparently can also spot a tranny like me by how retarded they can be.

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>>8755098
Actual transpeople are effete looking and have small frame, but if you're implying that there's such a thing as "unconscious" physical displays of GID, then no. There is only fagginess, or manliness.

It's very easy to spot even hot transgenders.

Height, voice pitch, chin shape, hand size, even personality.
Seriously. Went to a tranny convention.4 girls in the room, but I feel as though one is a normie bitch. 5 minutes after listening to her I clock her as 100% transgender, the final nail being her hanging up the phone with a 'see you later faggot' to her boyfriend.

If looks don't give it away, their personality will.

>>8756232
OP was asking about pre-transition traits

i wonder how hard cara wishes she was akko
>>8755098
"gayface" even before transition i.e. large, expressive eyes, small narrow nose and a small pursed mouth

>>8755098
Many AGP transwomen are quite masculine looking before they have surgeries or take hormones so, physically, they look very much like men.
You may be able to spot them, however, by their long hair, or love of feminine clothing/accessories.

>>8756425
well, i looked like akko when i was 13, but i don't *wish* i look like her.

>trans
>this really means "MtF" to almost everyone
I wish you all could experience how obnoxious this is for even a day.

Also, almost no one here is answering the question correctly except for >>8755138. OP asked for PHYSICAL traits, not BEHAVIOURAL traits. How you cut your hair is actually still behavioural; it's not a potential physical "tell" that something went wrong in your development.

Digit ratios is one of the few I'm aware of. I think it can also apply to toes.

I read once a doctor anecdotally observing that trans women (unluckily) tended to be tall on average, and speculated about a subclinical level of androgen insensitivity being the cause. I don't know if that's bullshit, though, or if there's any real data on that.

FtMs are more prone than cis women to having PCOS pre-transition. That's pretty well-established in the literature:

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/22/4/1011/696190/Association-between-polycystic-ovary-syndrome-and

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9279941?dopt=Abstract

Voice. You can't hide it no matter how much training you have.

>>8756477
> I looked like akko when I was 13
This is the level of delusion and self-confidence I hope to achieve one day

>>8756902
It's not hard to look like a stylized cartoon character given that most of their features are basically symbolic

>>8755111
>long hair and no definite style
fug
what if my style is skinny jeans and flannels/hoodies

>>8756473
So theres nothing seperating a masc AGP from a masc straight man physically? I'd figure there could be some AGP traits but people aren't looking for them yet. I mean gayface and autism face is a thing so why not AGP face?

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>>8755098
>>8756497
Is there any way i can get more validation if my ethnicity fucked my digit ratio and I'm too lazy to get properly tested for pcos (prolly don't have it anyway but have hirsutism)
t. depressed retard

>>8756971
There are multiple autismfaces actually

I notice some trends in trans people I see but I wouldn't call it agp face and hsts face, there are probably a few for each gender (for example a lot of mtfs look like fucking morrowind elves, doesn't seem to discriminate based on orientation and I don't really buy it that it's just a male trait in general - most men don't have it nearly as bad as a lot of transgirls I've seen)

>>8755111
>Long hair with no definite style.
that is me.
i'm not sure I would consider myself trans, but i'm AGP as fuck for sure


I noticed that my voice while talking to guys is a lot higher pitched than when i'm talking while a female is around. It can even sound a bit strained because of trying to achieve a 'manly' sound.
Not sure if it's all guys that do this, or it's bi guys, or i'm just autistic.

>>8756955
You look trans

>inb4 you excuse yourself as a metalhead as if having long metalhead hair and transgirl hair are the same thing

>>8757635
>long metalhead hair and transgirl hair

Precisely where is the difference? Long unkempt hair is long unkempt hair.

>>8757638
>you look trans
desu my sister has actually told me i look like a girl a few times
>>8757638
as a closeted pre hrt transgirl my hair isnt unkempt, i make sure to keep my hair nice and brushed and smelling good

- Thigh gap
- Plump lips
- Hips wider for a male

>punchable face
Not even kidding, it's true. Especially look at pre-HRT mtf faces.

>>8756497
>When FtMs prove they're more likely to have autism

>>8756497
Digit ratio correlates with sensitivity to androgens. It's not an either/or thing. If you have a lower digit ratio you are more sensitive to testosterone from the womb onward for both assigned men and women alike.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577466/
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/2/623.full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227311/

tl:dr people who have a shorter digit ratio are more driven in sports, more successful on average in financial trading, and more willing to take risks and assert themselves across their lifetimes.

Your digit ratio doesn't just control what your physical appearance will be. It controls your baseline temperament and sensitivity to primary sex hormones across your entire lifespan.

>>8757733
my digit ratio is low and I'm not competitive or a risk taker though

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>>8757733
>this is what the men of /lgbt/ base their entire legitimacy on
cring...

>>8757771
Butthurt short digit ratio confirmed

>>8757771
When are you going to stop posting??
like, you're still annoying

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>>8756971
I would say that there are physical traits, read my reply below because the Morrowind likeness is pretty damn hilarious.

Pic Related.

>>8757027
This AGP's are autistic thing has to end. I'd probably classify as AGP and I used to work in disability care with a few autistic people.

Let me tell you now, there is nothing physically or mentally similar between Autistic people and AGPs.

Autistic people tend to:
Be quite short
Their index fingers are very short compared to their ring fingers
Their heads are largest at the jaw, smaller at the mid face and smallest at the top of the head. Triangluar.

AGPs are the inverse of that.

I can agree with you on the Morrowind Elves point though. I know I kind of looked like one pre-transition, Big upper head, high and wide cheekbones, long and thin chin/jaw and gaunt cheeks and a thin but angry looking brow ridge. The second you mentioned it I had a good laugh because its spot on for a few people I know.

>>8757800
hey I look like that male elf too, good to know I'm not alone

>>8755098
man i sure love seeing this dumb gif of the fake ftm who came here a few times to try and troll and just gave up because the thread was such a shitfest

"i dont take hormones let me say im trans but then say im not trans for the sake of ad hoc argument." repressors and transtrenders are so gross and fat lmao

sorry, off topic but funny nevertheless

>>8757880
Tylar Ingles ain't too bad though, the kid's just embarrassing.

>>8755100
If this were true for ftms, I wouldn't be surprised. My mom and my sister both are a dainty size 7 (US) in shoes and out of nowhere I ended up with size 11 clown feet.

>>8757800
Holy shit, I have a friend who looks /exactly/ like that. Long hair, pointy goatee. triangular head, angry brow. Uncanny.

He's a metalhead and at one point his hair reached his knees. I doubt he's a tranny though, he went alt-right a while back and has posted fairly anti-trans views, not to mention he's married.

>>8757940
He may well be hiding something!

>>8756232
>calling your boyfriend faggot is somehow a masculine trait

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>>8757733
>phrenology-tier pseudoscience

>>8757800
I've never suggested that AGPs are autistic or similar, I mentioned autism because anon said there's an autism face and gay face so why not a trans face and I said there are different "autism faces" in different studies (likely correlating to different types of autism since it's not homogeneous - actually one purpose of research into dysmorphic features is that it might help identify different types with different causes and needs)

>I used to work in disability care with a few autistic people.
Which makes you naturally skewed towards low functioning autism (while transsexuals are more related to HFA/aspergers)

>This AGP's are autistic thing has to end.
Yeah most studies on co-morbidity are based on kids/teens so they're probably mostly HSTS anyway

>>8757940
>he went alt-right a while back and has posted fairly anti-trans views, not to mention he's married.
That sounds very trans anon, be on guard

>>8758315
This is legit science anon, but both are related to other variables like genes and shit so they're only useful for studying large groups of people
Trying to apply these to specific people is wrong but it's also wrong because people who do so don't understand the science they try to use and not because the actual science behind it is wrong

>>8759678
Fair enough, suppose I didn't read the post you were replying to thoroughly enough.

I'm just going to assume that when you say "Which makes you naturally skewed towards low functioning autism" you're not actually calling me autistic but are referring to the clients I usually care for. On some level you're right but people with asp do tend to need assistance from support staff, especially in their youth.

>>8755098

Autism

>>8757800
>>8759678
AGPs are Aspergers, not autistic. That's only an ASD.

>>8756497
Welcome to manhood, where no one cares about you unless you're chad or you're rich

>>8759678
>hfa/assburgers
Instantly invalidated your entire post

>>8760226
>unless you're Chad or you're rich
Or both.

>>8759678
>>8760033
I'm an AGP and I suspect i'm not neurotypical. Never was like the normie boys and it became even more extreme as I entered highschool and adulthood. But I don't fit all the HFA/Aspergers criteria either and I've improved somewhat in my later years. Although i'm a strongly introverted man now not a normie.

After hearing about the GD and autism link it made me suspect that many modern trans are just beta autist nerds with AGP. Although whether AGP is an intersex disorder or an ETLE remains to be seen.

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>>8757027
>Cara's avatar
>hirsutism
...Huh?

If you're an FtM with pre-T hirsutism, that's a sign of high androgens. If you then have EITHER polycystic ovaries or irregular ovulation, you probably have PCOS so long as the hirsutism isn't explained by something else (like a tumor). See chart.

I had polycystic ovaries and several signs of irregular ovulation, but I was otherwise asymptomatic (no signs of high androgens, no insulin resistance, etc.).

>>8757707
>it's autistic to actually answer the fucking question that was asked
Did you try this one on your teachers, I wonder.

>>8757733
>It's not an either/or thing.
Wasn't suggesting such. It's probably not surprising people look to something like that for validation, though.

>>8757914
I found a site that said that the average 5'7" man in the UK wears a size 7 in UK men's sizes. That's apparently a 7.5 in US sizes, and I wear in 8 in most shoes, so about average or slightly larger than average for a dude my height. I couldn't find similar data for women, though. Though there's so much debate about whether there's much relationship between foot size and height that I doubt we could find a solid relationship for trans people.

>>8758315
>peer-reviewed studies
>phrenology
Also, various facial measurements actually DO correlate to personality traits. We've probably always known this instinctively, but we didn't have a systematic way of measuring it in the 19th century.

>>8760226
Because women are self-absorbed shits. Thank fuck I'm bi.

>>8760033
That's bullshit and you know it. Let the meme die already.

Many asps may be AGP but very few AGPs are asps.

The reason most AGPs act weird is because of poor socialisation during their youth, which itself is a result of stigma.

I've met a ton of extroverted and socially adept AGPs in my time, heck I am one.

Spend enough time around people on the actual autistic scale, as I unfortunately had to do, and you'll see how stupid you sound for suggesting this. Asps and auts act so radically different from what you think, they are probably the most infuriating group of people to have ever existed.

Don't think I'm picking on all mental disorders by the way. I'm only picking on autism, because its the most insufferable one to be around.

Spending time with down syndrome people, 9/10 one of the most fulfilling experiences in life btw.

>>8762436
I was very introverted and awkward as a teenage AGP, also depressed and anxious. I didn't socially fit in with normies and never had a GF. I was kinda childish and in my own little world sometimes.

Does that seem like I'd be on the autism spectrum or something different alltogether?

>>8756497
>having a hormone condition that makes you have masculine traits is more likely to make you identify as male
shocker

>>8762436
>Asps and auts act so radically different from what you think, they are probably the most infuriating group of people to have ever existed.
Obviously you've never met borderlines.

>>8756497
If your digit ratio isn't even, does it mean you're not really trans? Does it mean you're AGP?

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>>8757800
>Big upper head, high and wide cheekbones, long and thin chin/jaw and gaunt cheeks but angry looking brow ridge.
Ladies and gentlehons, I present you the ultimate AGP head

>equal length 2D:4D
>finally growing chest hair at 19
>still no wisdom teeth at 20 while brother had his at 16
>small pointy chin, high cheekbones, big eyes
>chest never grew
>only got slight shoulder growth
>lanky as fuck with average female-sized torso
Started getting dysphoric at 19 when my chest hair started growing, I suspect I got another jolt of T and my brain couldn't handle it. My teeth started descending as soon as I started E, lolll

I also suspect there's something wrong with my hypothalamus (which also happens to control gonad function) because I never feel hungry or thirsty regardless of my mood. Insulin issues also run in my family, which also happens to be controlled by the hypothalamus. My grandfather on my mother's side only had daughters and one of his testicles never descended. He died of a heartattack in his forties. (heart issues + undescended tested are symptoms of low testosterone sensitivity/high estrogen sensitivity). My dad is effeminate and his older brother was gay.

I never had a chance, did I?

>>8762946
huh, you might actually want to get tested for intersex conditions anon. could have implications later in life

>>8762958
How do you get tested for that?

I'm already on HRT so all the hormone results are going to be all over the place.

And my doctor is an idiot and wouldn't let me test T/E until October after putting me on 200mg Spiro and 2mg E.

She seems to go against the whole "medicate as necessary guideline"

>>8762946
>greater than one 2D:4D
>still have no chest hair at 23
>shoulders look the same as they did at 16
>so does the rest of me desu
>lanky
>very tiny wrists
>got teased for looking like a girl by former friends

Make it stop. I'm not a tranny.

>>8763110
I'm the anon you responded to.

While I think I have some kind of androgen insensitivity, you seem to have it worse, lol. Doesn't mean you're a tranny, just that you're probably sterile.

I also got teased for looking like a girl and have tiny wrists. My friends told me this when I came out, but I don't remember is at all, I just remember hating being called a guy.

>>8763110
>>8762946
What the fuck is 2D:4D

>>8763151
I shoot live, I know that for a fact because I've been fertility tested before.

Just kind of sucks, man. It's hard to put weight or muscle on this frame.

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>>8763110
Dude, I'm 54 and I still have no chest hair and I'm not a tranny.
Some people just don't have it.

>>8763154
Index finger to ring finger length ratio measured from fingertip to the lowest fold where it meets your hand. It's been proven to be related to the amount of Natalie testosterone, with longer ring finger == more testosterone.

Also I was always eyeballing it, but I just measured my fingers with a tape measure, and it turns out my index finger is actually longer than my ring finger. Kill me pls.

>>8763195
Well that's good, I guess.

Also yeah I can't put on any muscle or fat either. Had to eat upwards of 4000 calories to gain anything while I was still on testosterone. I still have to eat around 3000 to gain any weight.

Also I just remembered that my dad had a beard at 15 while I still can't grow one.

>>8763231
> Dude, I'm 54 and I still have no chest hair and I'm not a tranny.
> Some people just don't have it.

I'm the anon he responded to, but my dad is Mediterranean -- both his chest and back are hairy.

Should've mentioned that.

The jawline traps get after age 25 because they're really men with mutilated dicks.

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This thread is really interesting to me.

I've never been a very masculine guy, behaviorally nor physically: slender frame, not much body hair, 5'8'', thin arms and legs, small hands, and I look over ten years younger than I really am. Gaining weight and muscle has always been really difficult. And yes, my index fingers are longer than my ring fingers.

I'm also bi (though a generally prefer women). The more I read up on the topic makes me wonder if I'm not borderline trans. It's weird, I've never really thought of this before. What are the chances I really *am trans*?

If that's the case, I'm 33. I doubt I'd be able to do anything about it, even if I wanted.

>>8763314
Most trans women are bi or lesbian (roughly 31% and 29% respectively). Only approx. 23% are into guys.

So if you were to transition, you're pretty normal as far as far as trans women's sexuality is concerned.

>>8763151
>have tiny wrists
How do you measure that?

>>8763253
>Natalie testosterone
Does she have a brother named Nathan estrogen?

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>>8757635
lmao i grew my hair out as a black metal guy and now im trans girl

>>8763154
My index is fucktons longer than ring, what does that signify?

>>8764123
holy fuck I grew out my hair to be graceful metalhead guy and now am trans

>>8764123
>>8764170
>"Am now trans"
>Now

You always were trans. You were simply never just a metalhead guy.

>>8764187
yeah i mean i figured there was a reason i wanted to be like feminine looking men
and basically look like a girl
but im metal so its okay still a guy lol

also am i still considered trans if im pre hrt?

>>8764205
You dont take the first dose and instantly become a trans girl. Similarly if you ran out of pills your 'trans' status is independent of any shipping issues or temporary gaps in treatment.

There are debates over whether you need dysphoria to be trans or not and further arguments whether you need dysphoria to be diagnosed before any 'trans' status. You'll get a ton of answers but based on your circumstances, yeah you're pretty clearly trans.

>>8762569
Funny how it's usually the tards on this board shouting "correlation doesn't equal causation!" but they immediately forget about that when it doesn't suit them.

There's no reason whatsoever to believe that PCOS causes females to be trans - particularly not when gender dysphoria usually presents younger than PCOS.

The actual cause of both is probably a third thing (or, better, a combination of other things) that are connected to both. E.g. there's a gene variant that affects sex hormones which is more common in FtMs than cis women...bet it's somehow a factor in both.

>>8762436
I know several people on the autism spectrum (professionally diagnosed), and they are sometimes irritating but mostly very charming.

Retards are awful, I avoid them at all costs.

>>8762599
This.

>>8762611
No, that's a correlation which is only meaningful to groups and not individuals. Lesbians are more likely to be left-handed, doesn't mean right-handed lesbians are not really gay.

AGP is a dumb meme. There's nothing that weird about it as a fetish, it's relatively common in both trans and cis people. Trans people of all sexual orientations have similar outcomes with transition (a direct refutation of Blanchard's claims) and there's no reason whatsoever to "type" trans people by sexual interests. It's not clinically meaningful in any way. If you have "AGP" sexual interests, you probably developed them as a coping skill. If you have gender dysphoria, you are trans. The end.

>>8763314
OTOH, if you don't experience gender dysphoria than you're NOT trans. Being less masculine obviously doesn't mean you're trans! Human variation is human variation.

>>8764230
Can I still be metal? lol

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>>8764360
Yes. You can identify as a metalhead.

>>8762946
Sounds a lot like me desu
>2d>4d
>no wisdom teeth at 23 (I have no idea what this has to do with anything, but)
>high cheekbones and big eyes
>lifelong case of slight gyno

>>8763110
Also I'm lanky with tiny wrists and I've been pretty high on the androgyny scale (randos calling me miss and ma'am while full male presenting in my early 20s)

I often fantasize about being karyotyped xxy but I know that wouldn't make me any more or less trans. Would be cool tho

t. mtf

>>8764725
Also, I had undescended testicles for a long time?

>>8764729
>As babies and children, XXY males may have weaker muscles and reduced strength. As they grow older, they tend to become taller than average. They may have less muscle control and coordination than other boys of their age.[13]

>During puberty, the physical traits of the syndrome become more evident; because these boys do not produce as much testosterone as other boys, they have a less muscular body, less facial and body hair, and broader hips. As teens, XXY males may develop breast tissue[14] and also have weaker bones, and a lower energy level than other males.[13]

>By adulthood, XXY males look similar to males without the condition, although they are often taller. In adults, possible characteristics vary widely and include little to no sign of affectedness, a lanky, youthful build and facial appearance, or a rounded body type with some degree of gynecomastia (increased breast tissue).[15] Gynecomastia is present to some extent in about a third of affected individuals, a slightly higher percentage than in the XY population. About 10% of XXY males have gynecomastia noticeable enough that they may choose to have cosmetic surgery.[16]

This is me to an uncanny extent desu.

can anyone tell me where to get hormone levels checked when self-medding in finland? helsinki btw

>>8762530
I don't know if you want an honest answer, but those things don't exactly correlate with autism. In fact what you describe sounds closer to ADHD or ADD.

Autism actually only rarely correlates with depression.

Things that correlate with autism are like:

You have difficulty understanding what people were saying when they speak to you. If you think they mean something else entirely or get told that you don't understand sarcasm regularly.

If you're unable to relate to people on an emotional level (not the same for physical pain), example being a stressed mother who doesn't get enough sleep is complaining but you tell her to just sleep more or to get on with it.

>>8762599
>>8764332
You do realise you're using an anecdote about the few people you know against a person that has worked with probably at least 20 aut or asp people in a workplace environment and in unison with mental health professionals.

If they're borderline and they don't seem annoying as all hell to you then guess what, they're probably on the not autistic side of the line.

Retardation can be a hassle but its very dependent on the individual. Still retards hardly get as violent as autistic people will, they're just difficult to work with because you have to force them to do the basics.

I'm going to stop here though because this is literally giving me Nam flashbacks to all the hair pulling and punches I've had to put up with thanks to all those "charming" autistic people.

>>8762946
Other than not having a small chin, I roughly followed that developmental pattern. I even had noticeable gyno at 16. Didn't help me in the slightest transitioning though, I still look like a guy. If you're implying you never had a chance to not transition then consider yourself lucky. I never had a chance at being either gender!

>>8764891
>I don't know if you want an honest answer, but those things don't exactly correlate with autism. In fact what you describe sounds closer to ADHD or ADD

I'm cool with an honest answer. It's funny you say ADD because I do have trouble concentrating. My mind is prone to wander. I was diagnosed with type 2 bipolar but didn't have severe enough ADD symptoms to get diagnosed I guess. Also have a lot of short term and long term memory issues I don't know if that correlates with ADD.

>>8766291
It definitely does sound like ADHD or ADD then. You're probably lucky, being diagnosed ADHD or ADD was once way to common and the meds were harmful to kids in more ways than they were beneficial. I've seen a lot of kids whose minds wander and who live in a little world of their own. Funnily enough, they may not have had all to many friends and people may have thought them introverted, but when you get to know them they can be just as socially capable and and can tell some really good stories. Do you find you have a very active imagination? If so there probably isn't anything wrong with you at all, you're just particularly imaginative.

>>8768110
Well I was all drugged up on Zoloft, Paxil and Risperdal as a teenager so i'm probably damaged in different ways. Was drugless in my 20s and now in my 30s i'm a pothead.

Used to be very imaginative but not so much anymore. Although occasionally I can have imaginative moments.

>>8764891
>You do realise you're using an anecdote about the few people you know against a person that has worked with probably at least 20 aut or asp people in a workplace environment and in unison with mental health professionals.
You do realize I don't give a flying fuck? "Autistic people are the most infuriating people to have ever existed" is not an expert observation, it's an opinion. MY opinion, being close friends with both Aspies and people diagnosed with some form of autism, is that they are sometimes irritating as fuck but often also some of the best people I know. Sounds like you have dealt mostly with people on the very low-functioning end of the scale. Frustration with their issues is understandable, but "the most infuriating people ever" was harsh words for everyone spectrum.

I will never like retards. I can't fucking stand them. It's like a kind of torture to spend ten minutes around a Downie; sort of like being locked in a closet and forced to stare at a white wall while listening to scratchy static. This may not be a "fair" or "nice" reaction, but neither is saying autistics are the worst people ever.

"Borderlines" was clearly a reference to people with Borderline Personality Disorder. And if you've ever been close to a borderline, you know they are something else - probably the most wildly unpredictable, unstable and emotionally manipulative people you could meet outside of an institution. You'd think someone who works in the mental health field would know what the term meant.

>>8768110
ADHD/ADD is a nonsense diagnosis. It's not real.

>>8769526
ADHD is the single best-understood and most-studied neurodevelopmental disorder. People with ADHD have differing brain mass, differing amounts of white matter, different brain waves and differing behaviour of neurotransmitters compared to non-ADHD people.

Why don't you deny the moon landing next? Idiot.

>>8769640
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7950086/Summer-babies-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed-with-ADHD.html
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-06-adhd-medicine-december-born-children.html
http://sciencenordic.com/more-adhd-among-december%E2%80%99s-kids

>>8755111
Honestly, I just though that was a homely woman

I'm bi agp (leaning towards woman) and while I have quite girly legs, and small wrists for my size, I have huge forhead, am hairy as bear, balding since 16, ring finger much longer than index, wide shoulders and generally look very gopnik.