Gatekeeping and Therapist Horror Stories

>>8706873
>try to transition at 12
>gatekept until 15
>now look like a manhon compared to cis girls
I fucking hate gatekeeping.

>>8706889
Fifteen is still better than lots of girls here.

How did they gatekeep you?

>live in Texas
>go to doctor
>she seems like a relatively sweet and cheery lady
>ask for referral to an endo to get girl pills
>"oh sweety honey I won't judge you for such a thing but maybe you should be seeing a psychiatrist instead so you don't risk making a poor decision and potentially damaging your body with irreversible surgery"
>think she's just being genuinely concerned because I'm too dumb to pick up on things
>"well monies a little tight I'm only like 17 I'm probably not gonna be getting any surgeries just yet"
>suddenly her sweet demeanor shifts to anger and disgust and she says in a shocked disdainful voice "what do you mean YET!?"
>tell her that actually I think I'll just make an appointment with some other doctor to get a referral some other time and walk right out

That's about the worst I've experienced, next GP I saw after that was entirely understanding and supportive, gave me an endo referral, got hrt easily

ITT: Mentally ill people mad that people don't play along with their delusions.

>>8706951
Transition is the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria anon. It's only the shitty doctors that let their personal biases get in the way of actual treatment who do shit like this.

First gender doc I saw as a teen wanted to talk endlessly about how HRT would affect my junk and turn me into a walking boner. Had moved his practice from an office building to an empty house with a bathroom next to the bedroom he used for "therapy" so he could take trans people into the bathroom and watch them pee.

Gave up on doctors for about a decade after that, just socially transitioned and went without HRT until recently when the "pass for a teen boy who hasn't quite hit his second bout of puberty" thing stopped working for the general public. I've gotten too old for it.

Luckily my new doc is not an idiot, but I still don't want to see the psychologist he's sending me to in 5 weeks. :\ I really don't trust these people; I don't think "normal" doctors dedicate their lives to trannies.

>>8706969
Just hide the crazy TERF and move on, it's not worth arguing.

>>8706944
BTFO. Suck that you had to waste time and money on her in the first place.

>want to transition at 12
>gatekeeper therapist said no
>continue to try to transition
>get a psychiatrist who also says no
>attempt suicide
>psychiatrist still says no
>think about self medicating and self castrating myself
>stick with psychiatrist gatekeeper
>turns out I am not trans, I was just dealing with my childhood sexual abuse poorly
>happy as a bisexual cis man.

>>8707035
Maybe you'd have dealt with it just as well or better if you had become an early transitioner?

>>8707035
Pretty sure the point of this thread was for when the system DOESN'T work as intended. Gatekeeping kids who are just confused about CSA is the system WORKING as intended.

>>8707044
Nah, this is good. We wouldn't want people like him wrongly transitioning, followed by detransitioning as an adult and raising a stink about how trannies don't really exist and were all just molested as kids.

That's literally how sexchangeregret.com came to be.

>>8707059
Weird, maybe letting children make decisions about their medical care isn't a great idea

>>8707059
Assuming s/he would have detransitioned.

>>8707059
If you self medicate because of a gatekeeper, how do you know they weren't right about you not being trans? What if you could have worked through your dysphoria but because you chose to go around a gatekeeper you never had that chance?

Except for a select few which you have to know, all doctors in singapore refuse to treat trannyism

>>8707098
Turn the question around.

If you gatekeep a patient, how do you know they weren't right about them being trans? What if they would have been happy and non-dysphoric but because you gatekept them they never had that chance?

>>8707098

cis people doesn't get as esperate as to self medding, probably violating some laws and risking their health in the process and dealing with the stress of watching their body changing while keeping it a secret

Self medding is the definitive proof that you're dealing with a trans

>>8706873
>tell parents I want to be a girl at 9
>get told don't be a freak, you're a boy
>be a little persistent, get beaten
>grow up, go to college, see a therapist because I'm 18 and can do that on my own now
>spend months seeing her and talking to her about gender stuff and how I feel, she keeps telling me she won't refer me and that I need to keep seeing her
>eventually realize its all bullshit and she wants to cure me
>find a different therapist through the /lgbt/ services on nearby campus
>gets me a letter in a week
>parents disown me as soon as they find out I'm taking hormones
>end up in mental hospital after suicidal thoughts because now I'm homeless and have no family
>get kicked out because they don't have any rooms for men with boobs
>can't stay in a men's room because I have breasts and it wouldn't be safe, can't stay in a female room because I have a dick
>told no other places will let me stay there either
>that'll be 3 grand for the 2 days in a waiting room with a broken TV and no windows please

fuck all of it. I have to deal with those fucks again now for insurance for SRS and I'm more tempted to just shill out for the full price just so I don't have to talk to any more fucking therapists again

>>8706975

>I've always suspected tranny psych come in 3 brands

1 transphobic gatekeepers
2 chasers who do weird things
3 actual doctors who care for the wellbeing of their patients

>>8707079
Nobody lets children make the decision by themselves, you sperg. Even children who are allowed to transition do so because an adult decided it was best for them.

>>8707098
I don't think you intended this reply for me, because it doesn't seem to relate to anything I said. But I'm not sure who you WERE replying to. It's a strange post.

>>8707203
Wow, it sounds like the gatekeeper tried to save you from a terrible life.

>>8707203
>get kicked out because they don't have any rooms for men with boobs
>can't stay in a men's room because I have breasts and it wouldn't be safe, can't stay in a female room because I have a dick
Wtf, why didn't they give you a private room? Is this really something a mental hospital is shitty over? Christ. I'm sorry, anon.

>>8707203
How did you survive the homelessness and all the money you had to pay?

>>8707209
life was worse as a male, i managed and now at least im free of an abusive family and i can be who i want

>>8707211
i grew up in the deep south. i doubt itd be an issue in most states. the hospital didnt have any private rooms, it was all doubles. apparently almost everywhere in the state was like that so they couldnt transfer me either.

>>8707221
i never paid the money and i just told the debt collectors to stop calling me. my credit was super fucked because of it but its starting to recover. i slept in my car at the time and just hoped my parents never called it in as stolen, then when i managed to scrape enough money together from working i rented a shitty room in a shitty apartment until i could make more.

>>8707334
I hate how a life can just turn upside down from college and therapy to homelessness and debt.

>>8706969
Anti-psychotics work too they just cause weight gain.

>>8707334
Isn't it illegal for your parents to disown you without you having any resources to live by? You could have sued their asses. Atleast in my country i know it's illegal.

>>8707423
technically its illegal to be denied service at a hospital for any reason as well but its not really so easy to just sue. besides, in the US once you're 18 your parents have no responsibility to you even though in some states kids have a legal responsibility to care for their parents in their old age.

>>8707417
You are gonna freak out when you learn anti-psychotics can actually cause breast growth AND anti-psychotics only work in cases of 'doubtful gender dysphoria' (consistent with the findings of the pimozide study).

>>8707440
>in some states kids have a legal responsibility to care for their parents in their old age.
u wot m8

Im glad I repressed so I don't have to deal with this

>>8707465
It's true. I found out when I talked to a lawyer about everything a few years ago. Louisiana has had one for a long time since it's laws are based on Napoleonic code laws, and there's a bunch of other states with them too. They're rarely used but if your parents end up needing a caregiver and can't pay the nursing home could come after you and hold you responsible for them if you're in the wrong state

>>8706889
If you are a hon after transition at 15, it just genetics.

>>8707204
more like
>3. lefties

>>8706951
This tbqhon

>>8707459
They still disable false fixed beliefs such as a man convinced he is a woman "trapped in a man's body".

>>8707205
>Even children who are allowed to transition do so because an adult decided it was best for them.
not very meaningful when you just hop from doctor to doctor till you find one that will go along with your delusions.

>>8707146
So I think the difference is that the gate keeper has experience and education where the questioning trans person doesn't and may not be in the right state of mind to actually look at and evaluate the situation. Like a gate keeper can look at things rationally because they are removed from the situation. No matter how much you tell a crazy person they are crazy they won't believe you because are sure they are sane.

>>8708097
Children can't get themselves new doctors either, you sperg.

>>8709674
1) Nobody is "objective" in this scenario. Someone gatekeeping you might be doing so because they genuinely don't think you're trans and should not transition; others mentioned in the thread clearly did so out of bias towards transitioning at all. If someone is putting the brakes on your transition, it's probably worth finding out why rather than assuming Doctor Knows Best.

>No matter how much you tell a crazy person they are crazy they won't believe you because are sure they are sane
2) This is nonsense. The majority of "crazy" people are aware that something is wrong. Even schizophrenics who aren't too severe are generally aware that they are delusional and//or hallucinating. "Crazy people don't know it" is an idiot normie meme, and anyone who repeats it is making it very obvious that they don't know much about mental health.

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>>8707035
This post shows why gatekeeping is a good idea because it successfully fed out illegitimate non-trans like you tbqh.

>>8707440
>in some states kids have a legal responsibility to care for their parents in their old age.
>in some states
Balkanization when?

>>8707709
Do they adjust neurological structures to align an intersexed trans brain with a cis brain of their original sex?

>>8709875
>intersexed trans brain
theres no such thing
stop confusing having feminine traits with being female and having masculine traits with being male.

>>8707347
>I hate how a life can just turn upside down from college and therapy to homelessness and debt.
That's just the way /pol/tards and other assorted bigots want it for those of us who are trans.

>>8709836
You shouldn't be legally responsible for abusive parents, desu. If you let them die stewing in their own shit, that should be okay.

>>8709884
Go back to your safe space, you autistic lesbian.

>>8709884
Not "feminine" traits, that anon is talking about FEMALE traits. That's what being intersex IS, you have a mix of the traits of the opposite sex. Could be a chromosomal mismatch, could be ambiguous genitals, could be more subtle than either of those things. I used to know a trans guy who repressed into a straight marriage and had a kid, only to discover when he was pregnant that his pelvic structure was male and the baby wouldn't sit properly in his uterus. It almost killed him, he spent the last few months on permanent bed rest. There were no other signs that he was intersex until then.

How is it difficult to grasp that if your brain is structured much more like the average male brain when you're chromosomally(etc.) female or vice versa that it could be considered an intersex condition? We're not talking about "girl good at STEM," we're talking about the brain being structurally different.

>>8709884
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality#Brain_structure

>>8709967
>average male brain
>average
this is the problem with the "intersex brain" idea.

some traits are more common in men (masculine traits), some more common in women (feminine traits).
but there are no absolute differences, just different chances of having certain traits.

>>8710017
>but there are no absolute differences
Wrong. There ARE absolute differences. You're thinking of the grey matter volume study, but grey matter volume is not all that's different.

>>8707709
If men and women are mentally the same in what way is that person not right? They're mentally a women so there's nothing wrong with wanting to have a female body just like other women.

>>8710017
Multivariate analysis my friend.

>>8709908
It shouldn't happen to anyone.

>>8710024
>There ARE absolute differences.
Such as?

And the key question: what % of males and females don't match their gender's norm?

>>8711832
>Such as?
Prompted by your post I looked deeper into the evidence and it is kind of a clusterfuck. There are a lot of conflicting studies that claim the opposite from one another so I'm not sure anymore. My smugness we misplaced.

At the same time I think it would be a hell of a coincidence if all trans people just happened to have brains which are shifted, on average, toward being like those of their non-natal sex. Certain sorts of classically intersex individuals also tend to be trans at incredibly high rates. If one twin is trans the other is overwhelmingly more likely to be trans too, even if the pair are reared apart. There is also evidence for natal exposure to sex hormones affecting sexually dimorphic behavior in animals (linking the last one since it is often met with disbelief)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3235069
http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC3146061/

With all of this in mind I don't think it makes sense to deny that transsexuality is caused by abnormal natal hormonal exposure.

>And the key question: what % of males and females don't match their gender's norm?
IIRC scientists were able to guess a person's sex based on their brain some ~70% of the time, so that's better than 50% but is still very far from 100%.

>>8711934
>My smugness we misplaced.
I know.

>IIRC scientists were able to guess a person's sex based on their brain some ~70% of the time, so that's better than 50% but is still very far from 100%.
Unless you're saying 30% of people are trans, you've failed to prove the claim. In fact if anything this disproves the claim by proving sex cannot be identified from the brain.

Also, where did you learn that? It doesn't have to be a link, I'd just like to know where the information came from.

>With all of this in mind I don't think it makes sense to deny that transsexuality is caused by abnormal natal hormonal exposure.
I'll keep my eyes open for proof.

>>8711977
>Unless you're saying 30% of people are trans, you've failed to prove the claim. In fact if anything this disproves the claim by proving sex cannot be identified from the brain.
What's the claim, now? I've moved on.

>Also, where did you learn that? It doesn't have to be a link, I'd just like to know where the information came from.
Someone cited that in a discussion about the ever-quotable mosaic study. Since, in the aggregate, there are still certain patterns you can guess someone's gender with above 50/50 probability.

>I'll keep my eyes open for proof.
Which part of what I've posted do you deny? If none of it, how is that not evidence for what I've said?

>>8712024
My issue is >>8711832

There aren't absolute differences if the best even aggregate differences can do is 70%.

Unless, again, 30% of the population is trans.

>>8712047
Right. I've said that after going over the evidence I can't really make heads or tails of whether or not there are absolute (rather than distributive) differences so I think it is fair to say that there might not be, or that at the very least we haven't found any. I've conceded this. At the same time there's the paragraph I wrote about how transsexuality seems to be rather strongly linked to various natal factors, which remains true and has to be explained in some fashion.

>>8712066
I'm open to explanations for the natal correlations but I'm not going to jump to conclusions like saying it doesn't make sense to doubt any particular hypothetical and unproven theory on causes.

>>8710017
Yes, INDIVIDUAL brains overlap a great deal. But the male and female AVERAGES in various sex-differentiated respects are pretty far apart. Trans people average closer to the opposite sex.

Take height as a simplified example of how sex differentiation is still significant in traits with ranges that overlap. Men and women overlap tremendously, but the AVERAGE male height is 5'10" and the AVERAGE female height is 5'4". If you were to say that, because there is so much overlap, there is no general height difference between men and women, people would think you were stupid.

Suppose you gathered together two other groups of people and measured their height. One group averaged 5'5" and one group averaged 5'9". Neither group has an average that matches the average of either men or women; both groups are between the sexes. But if you said one group tended to be close to average women in height and the other tended to be close to average men, would you be incorrect? Or does the fact that, say, an individual from either group could be 5'7" make this clustering irrelevant?

>>8712024
>If none of it, how is that not evidence for what I've said?
Usually when it hits the point that someone asks for "proof," they're probably beyond reach and you're arguing on behalf of onlookers. There IS no "proof," there will never be "proof," that's not how the scientific method works.

Of course there is not enough evidence yet to say with real certainty what the cause of GID is. But we have a plausible hypothesis which is supported (weakly, but supported) by more than a decade of brain scans, genetic studies and related study of gender identity, sex-typed behaviours, etc. in humans and other animals under various circumstances where either brain injury or hormonal disruption are present. Yes, there is contradictions and puzzles in the data so far, but it mostly agrees.

That anon? Has nothing. But he wants "proof." It's nothing but bad faith you're looking at there.

>>8712085
Okay, fair, you should always question things to a degree until we know for certain. It's just that - and this might be a failure of imagination on my part - I can't think of a plausible alternative explanation for all of this. The closest one is that humans are different from the other mammals we've tested this on, transsexuals are just abnormally masculine/feminine and socialization makes them experience gender dysphoria by pressuring them over not fitting in with others of their gender. I find this line of thought unconvincing since it would require humans to be unique in yet another way.

After arguing with trolls for long enough you tend to adopt a certain aggressive style, heavy on hyperbole. You're reasonable so I shouldn't have talked to you like that. For that I apologize.

>>8712118
You're telling me I should accept correlation = causation? When the correlation itself is so flawed, as you've pointed out in your own post?

>he
she, thanks.

>>8712131
>I find this line of thought unconvincing since it would require humans to be unique in yet another way.
What ways are we already unique?

>You're reasonable so I shouldn't have talked to you like that. For that I apologize.
Thank you anon and no sweat!

>>8712145
We know that, for example, hormones shift the brain in the direction typical to one sex or the other. We have a pretty clear basis for causation.

>>8709884
Learn what intersex means.

>>8706873
>Am gender confused
>Mentalward
>Schizophrenia
>Anti-Psychotics
>Repress
Fastfoorward 5 years
>Am transgender
>Mental Ward
>Defiantly schizophrenia
>Harder Anti-psychotics

>go into lgbt councilor to get hrt letter
>come out with skitzophrenic paranoid delusional referral for pimozide

yeah ok what?

>>8712348
How did it happen?

>>8712351
who what where when why how?

>>8707044
This post is pure madness.

Yeah, i was a conscript and my dysphoria started to increase so much that i couldn't handle it anymore. Found some random private psychologist to help me and he gave me antipsychotics as well as anti depressants because i wanted to kill myself everyday and i couldn't function. After a few sessions i asked him if he considers me trans and his answer was "No i think you have these feelings because you didn't have any masculine role model in your family(dad was an abusive piece of shit)" Before i left from his office he told me to call him once a week to tell him i'm doing okay and that i am not harming myself in any way or he'd call me himseld. So i stopped calling him and he never called back to see if i'm okay. Found a non Freudian psychologist after i was discharged, got diagnosed with GID and got a referral letter. Not depressed anymore, 9 months on HRT and might start presenting female soon since people gender me female even in boymode.

Oh yeah. The Freudian psych didn't want to give me a referral letter because he had some schizophrenic ftm who became schizo when he started hrt or someshit and he was scared i'd get it too since my grandma was schizophrenic herself.

>>8712269
So antipsychotics didn't make gender dysphoria go away.

>>8712348
Did you end up seeing a TERF who believes the pimozide meme?

>>8712562
Wow, what a piece of shit. Fuck Freudians.

>>8712829
Quick, someone do a case study so we can kill the meme
...as if, they'll say it's a Jewish conspiracy

>>8712562
>i was a conscript
What's that like for a repressing mtf?

>>8713155
Fucking shit. I was too feminine and got sexually assaulted for that plenty of times. Superiors expected a whole lot from me when i just wanted to stop breathing.

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>>8713717
finlando?

>>8714410
Greece. Southeast European shithole...

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So should every teenager that likes wearing dresses have the agency to get on HRT and permanently cause their growth to be stunted and pee pee to be smaller?

>>8713717
>and got sexually assaulted for that plenty of times.
Couldn't you complain? What could you do about it?

>>8714410
What's conscription like there?

>>8714500
It's like a larp game. Waking up early sucks but its easy and nice. Also there are ways to get pretty decent money from the government in certain situations.

>>8714557
Not as bad as Greece then. What situations get you the money?

How bad is it if you're repressing trans?

>>8714500
I was suicidal and didn't care about myself.
I don't really care about revenge anymore, i just want to be safe.

>>8714576
How did you cope during it and afterwards?

>>8714583
At first i started having panic attacks at random. I would break down in public places. I suffered from dissociation beforehand so when i recall it happening, my mind goes blank and everything becomes blurry as a response to the sudden stress. I haven't recovered it and likely never will.

Been to many professionals to help me battle it. Whenever i see groups of men i start hyperventilating and go in a hypervigilant mode. Whenever someone leans on me or touches me without my consent i feel very uncomfortable and disgust towards myself.

>>8714571
Medical issues, dental issues, trips to visit family in another country, big apartment, basically anything you can claim to be part of your living expenses and the government will pay for it. And while I was in the army I applied for school so when I got out the government gave me money to go to school and i invested it in bitcoin so I made mad dosh.

But Idk there was a gay kid and no one made fun of him that I saw and I think finnish people are very respectful of eachother's privacy so remarkably very little hazing or bullying although maybe there was a little and of course everyone's experience is different.

But I think the main thing that gets people bullied in the army is if you get your team in trouble and don't pull your weight in the little work you are assigned. I did notice however finnish kids are spoiled and very brainwashed and conditioned to trust authority and the government and they would tattle tail on eachother left and right but only if a person wasnt doing their work or they made other people's lives harder.

I guess if you like looking at wiener there is plenty of that :P but I dont see how your sexuality is anyone else's business so if you kept that to yourself there is no way to get made fun of but at the same time I met only one guy that "might" have been gay so not many people to relate to either.

>>8714615
It sounds like it really screwed you over.

>>8714630
How do you justify those things as living expenses?

>the main thing that gets people bullied in the army is if you get your team in trouble and don't pull your weight
That's kinda unfair since nobody asked to be there.

>finnish kids are spoiled and very brainwashed and conditioned to trust authority and the government
Depressing.

I have to wonder if gatekeeping is as widespread as some trans say it is or theyre just more batshit crazy than we know and doctors doing their job dont want to give some legitimately nuts person hormones

>>8706873
> psych wants me to get a blood test
> all endocrinologists have long waiting lists here
> first appointment gets cancelled one week in advance, I waited two months
> second appointment (waited to more months for that) they say "Oh you are trans, we can't help you here" so no blood test again
> 3rd endocrinologist has a 10 month waiting list. Decide to say fuck it and simply self med.

>>8706873
>>8715386

> tell my therapist I selfmed in the hopes of her freaking and giving me a referral for hrt without the blood work
> my plan works
> after that I continue to see her
> next session talk about first changes caused by selfmeding
> this time she completely flips her shit. She literally forgot I already told her and batches about how dangerous it is.
> suddenly doubts I am trans
> next session she forgot again and continues to be a maniac
> decide a mentally ill psych isn't Wirt much and stop seeing her

y'all should be glad your therapist didn't get you institutionalized

>>8707194
>Self medding is the definitive proof that you're dealing with a trans
lol read that out loud to yourself, dummy

>>8719534
?

>>8706873
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/8611384/#q8634597

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>>8719534
YOU GUYS DO REALIZE THAT ITS FUCKING BULLSHIT AUTHORITARIANISM AND RACKETEERING THAT PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM MAKING THEIR OWN DECISIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR BODIES AND MEDICATION????

INSTEAD OF BITCHING ABOUT "GATEKEEPING" AND THE COTTON CIELINNG OR WHATEVER THE FUCK IT IS WHY DONT YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS ORGANIZE YOURSELVES TO ACTUALLY FIGHT FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO APPEAL TO MORE AUHTORTARIAN BULLSHIT!

IF ITS NOT ANTIBIOTICS OR VACCINES THEN THERE IS NO REASON A PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO DISPENSE YOUR FUCKING MEDICATION WHATEVEr IT MAY BE

>>8723382
I agree, HRT should be over the counter.

I suppose some people might still want therapists to help deal with dysphoria and to help them decide if they should transition.

>>8723382
I'm literally an authoritarian leftist and I 100% agree with this

>>8712145
>You're telling me I should accept correlation = causation?
If this is all that you understood in my post, then either you're not terribly bright...or you're a very bright kid in high school. This website is for adults, kiddo.

Do come back - madam, sorry - when you progress past "haha, correlation isn't causation! Checkmate!"

>>8715323
It's both too widespread and not widespread enough when you have legitimate trans people suffering without even HRT for years in some areas and trenders waltzing out of informed consent clinics with titty skittles/T in one session in others.

The whole system is fucked pretty much everywhere.

>>8715386
Wtf do you need an endo for a basic blood workup for?

>>8723907
>implying correlation is causation

>>8723382
>only rich people should be allowed to transition
fucking ayncunts

>>8724082
Go make a kickstarter or troll online until someone buys you HRT.

>>8724108
I have a hobby. Destruction of private property.

>>8706873
>See nurse practitioner who supposedly does HRT on an informed consent basis.
>She says I'll need to see a psychologist before she will prescribe anything despite the fact I'm self-medding.
>I say that I thought she works on an informed consent basis
>she says that she "does both"
>I respond that they're mutually exclusive
>"I do both"

>>8724081
I did no such thing anon, but like I said: you're not too bright. Intro to Stats isn't serving you well here.

>>8724132
What in fuck. Did she think you weren't "informed" enough, or give you any other reason?

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>>8724082
DRUGS COST LESS THAN A FUCKING DOCTOR VISIT YOU FUCKING RETARD


ARE YOU REALLY TOO FUCKING POOR TO AFFORD TYLENOL

OH AND BTW DRUG PATENTS ARE FUCKING BULLSHIT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER IP

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>>8724119
ANTIFA REEEEEEE FAGGOT MILLENNIALS SMASH DA FASH (other people's hardwork)


HULKO SMASHOOOO FAGGGOTTTOO CAPITALISMOOOO

GIBME GIBME GIBME OR ELSE I SMASHOOOO FAGGGOOOO

>>8724869
>ur not 2 brite
>i win!!

>>8726212
Nigger please

>>8724872
She doesn't seem to understand what informed consent means.

>>8726208
>$50 000 worth of surgery at a minimum
Yeah, cheap.

>>8728503
If you go for SRS, sure. Orchis are ~$4000. FFS can be covered at least partially by insurance.

>>8728554
Where I live SRS is free but FFS is expensive.

My therapist once told me because I haven't talked about my gender dysphoria for a while:
You change your mind on everything, first you like X think, then you don't like it, then you are transgender, then you are not.
And then told me to stop going until I had "real issues" to talk about

>>8728557
>NHS SRS

*vomit*

>>8728608
I don't know what you mean but like, any method is free I'm fairly sure.

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>>8728503
>talk about drugs
>bring up surgery
s-s-strawman?

And this is competently unrelated to the drugs topic, but free market means the most economic growth which means the most disposable income which means more people are willing to fund trannies that they met in person or are related to or are willing to donate to crowd funding to help trannies get surgery. How many crowd funding campaigns are there for trannies? Why dont you take advantage of a cash rich economy and the free market anon?


Big surprise the most attractive people to get the most money this site but that's what angles are for and appealing to people using other assets like creativity and writing for example.

OR YOU CAN JUST TAKE A FUCKING LOAN AND START A BUSINESS OR BUY BITCOIN FFS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjcIRQuCXr0

Even in the most liberal places, procedures that are arguably cosmetic will always face criticism when trying to get the state (evil & scary bad bad) to pay for.

If drug patents weren't so fucking jewed up and pharma companies didnt fund lobbying to protect prohibition and doctors having absolute control of all the best drugs then HRT could be dirt fucking chip. Oh yeah, and to get our right to medicate ourselves back and undo stupid drug monopolies we would need to somehow unbrainwash little fucks like you and help you take responsibility for your own actions.

I've seen it posted here that the lgbt community needs a strong central authority like the federal government because states can be mean to trannies like south carolina and their bathroom legislation but then you ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE POLITICAL PENDULUM AND SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP CAN CONTROL THE WHOLE FUCKING UNITED STATES AND FUCKING YOU LITTLE TWATS OVER LIKE HE SUPPOSEDLY DID WITH THE MILITARY BAN. Meanwhile if you supported states rights then if a state was really mean to trannies YOU COULD MOVE TO ANOTHER FUCKING STATE. Options & diversity are a good thing!

>>8728705
>>8728503
meant to link this

bit[dot]L-Y/2uH65cK

its a 30k go fund me for a passable trans girl

>>8728705
>talk about how transition is expensive
>start talking about drugs and pretend that the only expense is drugs
lolberts

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>>8728731
>the original fucking thread was about psychiatrists denying drugs which wouldnt be a problem if you didnt submit to their cuckery

>then some bootlicking faggot brings up how expensive cosmetic surgery is like it's actually relevant

>explain why the free market can help that to because relying on a central authority for something like that leaves you vulnerable to someone like trump, especially in a winner takes all situation, and THE EVER SWINGING POLITICAL PENDULUM vs decentralized authority which hedges against that

>end my argument with a call to action about how drugs because theyre relatively easy to make inexpensive and theyre important to me personally and are really important to transexuals (arguably the most important part of transitioning) and we should work together to uncuck ourselves

yeah its funny how bias can warp your perceptions

>pretend that the only expense is drugs
I did no such thing in my last post i was simply ending the post by reaffirming that we should get our rights back with regards to drugs because that is something that's personally important to me and lots of other people. BUT, hormones ARE typically the most important part of transitioning and sometimes effective on their own, especially when started at a young age.

WHY DO YOU LOVE AUTHORITY SO MUCH FFS? DID SOMEONE BULLY YOU IN SCHOOL AND YOU TATTLE TAILED ON HIM AND IT MADE YOU FEEL ALL WARM AND FUZZY WTF?

>>8728808
>gatekeeping is exclusively a drug thing and you don't also need to go through the same people for surgery
Anything to justify price gouging huh.

>>8728453
Fine, I'll spoon-feed you: "correlation doesn't equal causation" only means that correlations can occur without being the cause. It certainly doesn't mean that correlation has NO RELATIONSHIP to the cause.

In many cases, correlation is all that researchers have to go on, because it's often impossible to directly study the cause of something. So what you want to do is consider things like the strength and reliability of the correlation, the presence or absence of other correlated factors that could be causal, and how well your hypothesized cause fits the evidence.

The evidence for what we're talking about is still weak, but also consistent with the bulk of the evidence across multiple fields and areas of research. It may still be that there's another explanation. But it better be a REALLY GOOD one in order to be a stronger hypothesis than what we've currently got. "Absent mother," "fetish," etc., none of those ideas have remotely the same strength of evidence that "brain sex" still does.

>>8707098
We all make our own choices in the end.

Self medicate if you want, so long as you are willing to live with the potential consequences.

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>>8729077
Jesus christ your dogmatic bias fueled by your ego and identity is astounding.

read the OP, its about drugs

Then read my fucking posts about how i disagree with drug patents and drug prohibition and the RACKET the medical industry is pulling by forcing you to go through doctors to get a prescription.

If drugs werent patentable and available to purchase without a prescription THEY WOULD BE DIRT FUCKING CHEAP.

Thats my point and if drug research needs to get funded then people need to decide to throw money into a pool to fund the research instead of supporting an unethical racket that forces them to be profitable, which authoritarians love for some stupid reason.

Hopefully this post wasnt too long and you will be able to understand the intent behind it.

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>>8707098
>supporting authoritarianism

>>8729113
Exactly and everyone should have the opportunity to control their own destiny. Educating people and allowing information to flow freely and making consultants (doctors) should help people make the right choices. And if people fuck up that just means are genes are healthier thanks to Darwinism.

>>8729178
Gatekeeping and Therapist Horror Stories Anonymous 08/11/17(Fri)03:08:41 No.8706873▶>>8706889 >>8707203 >>8712269 >>8715386 >>8715412 >>8723328 >>8724132

The worst
>therapists
>psychiatrists
>doctors
>gatekeeping
or any other professional care you'd been given.

>it's about drugs
>praise the free market
>consume
>don't question authority
>kneel

>>8729208
libertarian free will is a lie

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>>8729218
most of the posts were about acquiring drugs, ur nitpicking

And FREEDOM in general is what should be praised omfg. Are you really you really trying to imply that it's authoritarian to celebrate FREEDOM? That's like a misnomer. You're perfectly FREE to organize a firm or community that governs itself in a marxist fashion but the top of the power pyramid should be free so that a diverse ecosystem of cultures, groups, services, and businesses can function together.

Freedom, freedom to trade, decentralized power, and individual agency ARE NOT CORPORATISM.

Why do you love authority so much? Are you the kind of person that loves to tattle tell on people or use the police to take care of your personal drama?

>>8729280
Wtf are you trying to meme?

>>8729413
Nice backpedaling desu

>>8729413
>>8729413
forgot to add that another reason that the top of the power structure should be as free as possible so that a diverse ecosystem of systems of goverance exist so that people can choose where they live and what kind of government to live under

if there is some kind of one world government or even a bloated federal government then you are at the will of the political pendulum so that at any time it could swing wildly and you have no where left to run

giving people different options and allowing competition hedges against a single fault

>>8729440
wow ok i was a little off about the OP but psychiatrists and HRT was a major theme for the thread and doesnt mean my fucking arguement is wrong, but youre so desperate to come up with anything that youre literally grasping for straws

>>8729413
>everyone should have the opportunity to control their own destiny.

no one truly controls their own destiny

before you reply think about this
could you have replied in any other way?
could you not reply?
was it your choice to reply in the manner you will reply (or not reply)?
when was the last time you ate? how did this affect your reply?
did you choose the genes relevant to this decision to reply?
did you choose the childhood experiences which shaped your worldview which motivated you to reply?

the brain in a vat is a myth

we are brains in bodies coded by genes influenced by childhood environments influenced by cultures influenced by geography, etc, etc

free will is what we call the biology of decision making we havent discovered yet

>>8729484
>le fatalisme
>le destinee

KYS

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>>8729484
so wut even if ur retarded ass theory is true then we cannot perceive it one way or another and is just a dumb strawman for why authoritarianism is good

decentralized power structures are more robust and hedge against a single fault like a supposed "orange fascist" (i dont hate trump but for the purposes of my argument)

do DMT

>>8729465
>backpedaling again

>>8729104
>It certainly doesn't mean that correlation has NO RELATIONSHIP to the cause.

>implying it means the correlation does have a relationship to the cause
>implying it means the relationship is causal

>>8714487
S-source?

>>8714487
Just the ones that either go to an informed consent clinic and show they understand the nature and effect of HRT and are competent to make a decision to pursue that treatment. Also the ones assessed as having Gender Dysphoria under DSM-V and who are cleared as not having other conditions which could preclude them from a recommendation for HRT under a trained endo..

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>>8731011
What about the ones that no one believes but they know deep down who they are so they pursue HRT by any means necessary?

You know the truth is that no body is able to read someone's mind and an individual understands themselves better than anyone else?

Why not just try to educate and encourage teenagers to make the best rational decisions they can? And it's arguably more harmful to a tranny that transitions late than it is for a person that takes HRT for a few years then decides to quit. They might have diminished stature and a small pee pee but there are techniques for implanting someone's dna into a donor sperm cell so that even sterile men can reproduce.

Some teenagers are going to make mistakes either way and there are going to be psychiatrists that dont allow someone to transition that truly would benefit from it so the most we can do is damage control, but if someone is dumb enough to go on HRT willy nilly then maybe its better theyre removed from the gene pool anyways.

>>8731482
>What about the ones that no one believes but they know deep down who they are so they pursue HRT by any means necessary?

Then they can pursue informed consent or the normal gatekeeping path as means they deem necessary? I don't get your point.

Was 13 when I saw psychologist about me wanting to transition and me being trans. She knew nothing about transgender people. She basically thought I was an alien and treated me as such. She said I need a girlfriend for three years of therapy even though I'm only attracted to guys. After three years of gatekeeping I'm on HRT and with another therapist :)

>>8731500
some people that deserve hormones are not going to be able to get them

doctors are imperfect and the medical system is corrupted

at some point it's up to individuals to make their own choices

>>8707440
Yup. Where I live (and this is in a first world country, btw) your parents are only obligated to care for you until you turn 16.

>>8732239
>some people that deserve hormones are not going to be able to get them

In Yurop maybe where your national health services gatekeep you out the ass.

In 'murica fucking up your body is easy as one trip to the clinic.

>>8707035
OP BTFO

>>8732579
Ehh i dont know i guess it depends on the doctor but some are stingy as fuck.

Especially with opiates..

No clinic should be neccesary just straight 2 pharmacy.

>be repressing for years and years
>go to uc berkeley because it's a liberal school
>i consider self-medding and think it'd be easier to get a doctor to prescribe shit
>expect i can finally transition
>go to school psychologist, tell her I'm trans and i want to get on hormones
>she keeps turning me away from trans things and decides she wants to deal with depression only, and I'm gatekept for almost a year
>wants to put me on anti-anxiety and anti-psychotics
>in the meantime I go to a doctor under my family insurance in Oakland and he gets me a referral within the day
>refers me to an arab endocrinologist who unsurprisingly refuses to prescribe anything without two letters from psychologists
>finally end up meeting a nurse practitioner in the school's trans care program because they won't let anyone else prescribe hormones
>she's fucking incompetent or ir actively trying to get me to change my mind
>refuses to look at hormone levels
>refuses when I request tests

And I was told the Bay Area was a liberal shithole. I might as well be meeting /pol/ack doctors in the midwest.

>>8733056
this is why the medical industry is a racket because all those gatekeeping doctors still get to charge your insurance

purge it all and let people just do what they want with their own bodies and fuck prohibition

if people want to subsidize the medical industry then they can but it should be billionaires investing in research with donations and not taxes because rich people dont fucking pay taxes lol and donations would actually get more of their dirty jew money cause theyre so desperate to live forever

>>8729413
I like how "using harry potter references" is written in comic sans tbqh.

Its good they are there without them you could do it right away no drawbacks and you know what sure mutilate your own gentiles welcome to infertility

>>8723382
>IF ITS NOT ANTIBIOTICS OR VACCINES THEN THERE IS NO REASON A PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO DISPENSE YOUR FUCKING MEDICATION WHATEVEr IT MAY BE

What makes them different?

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>>8733579
Because we are at war 24/7 with microscopic infectious agents and herd immunity is a thing and so is antibiotic resistance.

Its the only ethical reason why certain drugs should be controlled and i guess people shouldnt be allowed to have nerve gas either.

>>8707035
>>8732811

Found the Susan's hon.

>>8736779
>you're a hon unless you want to poison everyone with estrogen

Low IQ detected

>>8709775
reeeeeee authoritarianism

>>8736789
omg if ur not smart enough to realize iq tests are BS then u have low iq

>>8736798
>omg Einstein flunked out of school!!!

O-okay, Einstein

i fucking hate gate keepers

>>8736822
I fucking hate whiners

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>>8736811
AHAHA DEFENDING PUBLIC EDUCATION OR UNIVERSITIES

AHAHA NOT BEING AN AUTODIDACT

>>8736811
you reek of pretentious superiority complex which is probably just an inferiority complex

>>8736866
>projecting this hard

kek

If one says no can't I just switch until I get a yes?

>>8736936
yes
but you might want to think about why they are saying no

>>8736964
Because they're dysfunctional and selfish.

>>8736972
That could be the reason.
Or maybe they think that you would have a difficult time for some reason.
Maybe ask them their reasoning.
They are supposed to be professionals, after all.
You might as well try to learn from them since you are paying them after all.
Just go to someone else if they don't give you the answer you want, though, yes.

>>8706951
/thread

>>8736789
You talk just like the repressing hons. 20 years from now you'll probably crack and become a scary freak

>>8736811
>>8736915
>>8736789
when your only response is various elaborations on "NO YOU" you have no argument

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>>8723382
It's because of these assholes isn't it?

>>8723382
>not going to med school to become a gp who will prescribe titty skittles and roidz with as little bullshitting as possible

It's like you don't want to live in a free country with lots of attractive girls (male)

>>8733056
Go to a conservative doctor and tell him you want to be a woman and you are attracted to men and want to be a good housewife and then start crying like a little bitch in the middle of the appointment

Liberals get stuck too much on the "love urself!" "every body is beautiful" "you're a unique snowflake" because hrt and transitioning goes against their creed of being special since you're technically conforming people into two genders. They'd rather you be a 40 yr old hun wearing womens stockings with muh unique gender than just a woman because of years of brainwashing about gender roles by feminists told them anything else is oppressing women with the patriarchy or some shit.

>>8737621
Wow, fuck gatekeepers. They're that deranged and opinionated..!?

So much "mental illness" in the world, why pick on trans?

>>8740087
Because haters are gonna hate, and because we're near the bottom of the social order it's socially acceptable to pick on us.

>>8707447
can't she just type on her phone like she did in the post? why would it need to be yes or no questions?

>>8724119
holy shit that's epic