I was called transphobic by a new friend my best friend made

>>8689590
You were in fact a bit nosy, but he was asking for it by wearing that shirt and he just wanted an excuse to make a scene and get attention.

I wouldn't say you were in the wrong, just don't ask too much next time. But he was definitely in the wrong, don't worry senpai.

>>8689590
He's an attention whore with a victim complex. He probably wears that shirt just to initiate interactions like that. There's also nothing "transphobic" about asking trans people questions like that, although it would be inappropriate in a lot of situations.

If it weren't for the t-shirt, it's obviously somewhat awkward to ask someone if they're trans. But he was wearing that shirt. So yeah...he's a tool, you did nothing wrong. If he IS trans, he's literally advertising it. If he's not trans, he should have declared it was an ironic joke or whatever. No reason at all for him to be buttmad that you asked him about what was on his shirt.

t. FtM

>be insecure attention whore
>wear obnoxious shirt just to get a reaction
>get a reaction
>use reaction to be insecure attention whore

not only is that guy a tool, but anyone who would voluntarily spend their time with them is as well.
and honestly I think that would continue on a few more degrees, so if that 2nd tier tool is your "best friend" then that makes you a 3rd tier tool.
If I were you I would spend a little time evaluating my life and try and be the kind of person who would choose better friends.

You didn't do anything wrong, it was stupid for him to react that way when wearing a shirt like that.

I'm also ftm so yeah.

>>8689590
did it smell like fish?

>>8689626
lol, how far is third tier tool from neutral toolishness?
>>8689590
Are you straight and your best friend is gay? Or are you both gay?
Where did your friend meet this new person?
Had he talked about this friend before you saw him through the coffee shop window?

>>8689675
>lol, how far is third tier tool from neutral toolishness?
I think it depends on how big the ground zero tool is.
In OP's case I think it might go up to around 10 or so... probably infects the whole city he lives in.

>>8689626
Well, my bff isn't too bad. He's FtM. Which is another reason why I see being called 'transphobic' a bit weird.
Honestly, I do have some opinions that might come across as transphobic, but I didn't mention any of them. The interaction was exactly as follows:
>BFF: Hi Anon!
>Me: Hi BFF.
>BFF: this is my new friend, [name redacted].
>Me: pleased to meet you. that shirt is certainly a conversation starter! are you actually trans?
>Angry dude: i'm a man.
>Me: that's not what I asked, though.
>Angry dude: you're a transphobic asshole. Fuck off.
>:: storms out before i can stammer an apology::
>BFF: I'll text you later! :: runs after angry dude ::
>shop owner: the fuck was up with that tool?! wears a shirt like that then gets angry when someone asks about it?
>Me: no idea. was I in the wrong here?
>shop owner: nah.
Exactly as it happened. I feel like I might've done something shitty, but when I think about it logically, I know I didn't. But that still doesn't change the feeling. It's maddening.

>>8689590
>Was I in the wrong to ask?
Nope. Coffee shop owner was right, other guy is a tool. Best friend and mr I'm a guy both in fact.

>>8689617
>You were in fact a bit nosy
Not with that t-shirt OP wasn't.

>>8689721
Then it's exactly how I broke it down >>8689626
or, if they are not an attention whore, then they are just an insecure retard putting up a weak front of being secure with themselves and then crumbling under the pressure of any normal social interaction.
Regardless, they need to get the fuck over themselves, and that's entirely their problem and not yours.

>>8689675
I'm gay. BFF is FtM.
Not sure where they met, but it was two weeks ago, about, and somewhere online, probably. Yeah, he's mentioned the guy before and hinted at the possibility that they may start dating. I didn't ask and BFF didn't mention whether the guy is trans or cis, but that's normal for us. He dating a FtM guy last year and I had no idea that the guy was trans until after they'd already broken up.

>>8689590
lmao some people are crazy why wear a shirt like that if you're going to react like that? I would've said a lot of mean shit as he stormed away had he done that.

>>8689639
>ftm tranny being perfectly reasonable and logical talking about a fucking attention whore retard
>Get the fuck out of the gay community.
you're a retard

>Wears a shirt saying "I'm a label"
>WHAT THE FUCK ASSHOLE DON'T LABEL ME

Nah OP you're entirely blameless here, that guy is just a colossal douche

>>8689693
>probably infects the whole city he lives in.
lol
>>8689748
Welp, you've gotten a lot of validation that you're in the right and your best friend's new friend is in the wrong.
I'd say if you ever see them again, just remember that they're emotionally unbalanced and play it super chill with them. Perhaps don't even engage with them unless they talk with you first.

He's a dipshit for wearing a shirt like that and not expecting anyone to ask, fuck him.

>>8689721
>Exactly as it happened. I feel like I might've done something shitty, but when I think about it logically, I know I didn't. But that still doesn't change the feeling. It's maddening.
I hate that. It's almost easier to deal with when you've actually done something wrong, because you can do something to fix it. But when it's just because of some fleeting asshole, the feeling has nowhere to go.

>>8689721
wording it at "that's not what I asked though" sounds from the outside as if you were predisposed to thinking of (and possibly treating) him differently depending on his answer; it's a little passive-aggressive and the idea to him is it shouldn't be necessary for him to answer one way or the other in order for the social situation to proceed

obviously that was a total and utter over-reaction on the other guy's part but I reckon that's what he was thinking you meant when you said that in that way, he thought you were saying "that's not what I asked though" in such a way as to mean "YEAH BUT ARE YOU A REAL MAN" which obviously you probably wouldn't

>>8689800
I'm starting to see that!

If he /is/ trans, could the T have something to do with it? Always assumed that T just makes you rage over the tiniest shit in the beginning, but I've never asked anyone about it.

>>8689853
No, he was obviously just sensitive and emotionally unbalanced (and stupid). T wouldn't cause that.

>>8689829
>implying this wasn't something he expected and wanted

You:
>openly talk about trans

Him:
>freak out and run away when someone talks about trans

Which one sounds more "trans-phobic"?

>>8689748
>hinted at the possibility that they may start dating.
>may start dating
>getting (deliberately) upset at your potential boyfriend's close friend
This is starting to smell really fishy.
Best to try and steer away from other incidents like this, and proceed with caution.

>>8689914
>be insecure pain in the ass
>attack partners friends in order to isolate them to have them all for myself

pretty typical actually.

>>8689846
>REAL MAN
And that's where my potentially transphobic opinion comes in. Keep in mind, I didn't mention any of this during the exchange, but I'm from a different culture, an immigrant to the US. I don't wanna get into which culture exactly because reasons. Anyway, in mine, we have a non-binary understanding of gender. We have four. Male, female, malewoman (that's kinda how it would translate, it's the word for 'woman' but with a masculine ending; can refer to transwomen) and femaleman (same as above, but the opposite binary genders). We see malewomen and femalemen as different from both man and woman and each other. There's an issue back home currently about language reform because we refer to native malewomen with masculine pronouns but foreign transwomen with feminine pronouns and the native population considers it discriminatory, but that's a different story for a different thread.

Anyway, another trans friend of mine says that holding the opinion that transwomen and transmen are different from ciswomen and cismen diminishes her experience. I tried to make the point that her experiences growing up as a transwoman are not the same as someone growing up as a ciswoman and that she faced and overcame challenges that a ciswoman hasn't and vice-versa; to simply label herself as "woman" does a disservice to her struggle.
She hadn't thought of it like that, she said, but still "fundamentally disagree"s with me about it. And that's fine. We're still friends, but after that conversation (which, by the way, she asked me for my opinion, I didn't offer it unsolicited as I'm doing now), she's told others that I make her uncomfortable because I don't accept her gender identity.
In this situation, I don't feel I've done anything wrong. I still accept her for who she is, but just have a different, still accepting, cultural understanding of the whole thing.

Now: does THIS make me transphobic?

>>8689923
>>8689914
Oh dear. Hadn't thought of that. If this might be a technique to isolate my BFF from his supports network, is there anything to be done? Is there any way to detect whether this is what this guy's trying to do before it gets too bad?

>>8689946
Just talk to him about it.

>>8689929

Depends on who you ask. I personally think people getting offended at differentiting cis women from trans women is utterly ridiculous, for all the reasons you've mentioned.

I mean trans people shouldn't be discriminated against and should be able to do everything their new gender can do without persecution, but that doesn't mean everyone has to immediately redact any acknowledgement that they aren't biologically women.

Same reason intersex people annoy me. I find their dedication to androgyny commendable and their style is cool, but when they start bitching about me not using their made-up pronouns I lose all sympathy.

>>8689929
Anything can make you ___-phobic when you hang out with people who choose to embrace a cult-like victim mentality rather than attempt to find rational common ground and communicate honestly.
If someone chooses to dislike you, then there really is nothing you can do other than avoid them.

>We're still friends...she's told others that I make her uncomfortable
She obviously doesn't think of you as a friend.

>>8689946
>>8689963
You can try talking to them about it, but there is practically ZERO chance they are going to actually listen. Every single time I hear about this crap the person getting abused can't see it happening until they are up to their neck in the shitpile and have to struggle to claw their way back out. By that point they have burned several bridges and alienated their entire support network. It usually takes them years to recover from it, and the whole time they are dealing with their psycho ex stalking and harassing them.

If you're not the kind of person who can see these toxic insecure tool-bags from a mile away and avoid them like the cancerous plagues they are, then you sadly are going to have to live and learn from a really horrible mistake.

The most you can do is tell your friend that you will always be there for him if he needs you. I would totally expect him to pull away from you pretty quickly after this incident, and if you go out of your way to "talk sense into him" or whatever you're just going to push him away more.

I'm just basing this on the fact that he ran after that nutjob and hasn't bothered to text you back. I'm betting the fucker gave some ultimatum about not hanging out with you.

You never really know though.. maybe your friend is smarter than all evidence to the contrary and will miraculously wake up and realize he's hanging out with a pile human garbage and dump that sack of shit on the nearest curb.

>>8689964
Not sure how I feel about that. I don't know any intersex people or genderfluid or genderqueer people, really so certainly not enough to form an opinion on them.

>>8689977
>she doesn't think we're friends
idklol
I'm Quaker. I think everyone's my friend.

>>8690038
I can identify it to some degree, but I only interacting with that guy for fewer than 120 seconds total and that was only three lines of dialogue. Certainly not enough familiarity to gauge the situation.
But I wasn't planning on telling BFF the guy's a douchenozzle for exactly the reason you gave.

>>8689590
>you wouldn't ask him how he has sex
wut
dudes ask that sort of questions to each other all the time

>You've just met Joe. You wouldn't ask him how he has sex...
>You've just met Liz. You wouldn't ask about her genitals...
Has the person who made this ever actually met a guy? We do this shit all the time.

>>8690517
We do?

>>8690526
all my straight friends do, they even joke about all the twinks I bring around to fuck and ask about anal, OPs pic was made by a woman

>>8689929
>I tried to make the point that her experiences growing up as a transwoman are not the same as someone growing up as a ciswoman and that she faced and overcame challenges that a ciswoman hasn't and vice-versa; to simply label herself as "woman" does a disservice to her struggle.

I can see that point, but I don't really agree. A woman who was born with no legs would also have experiences growing up that differentiate her from other women, but that doesn't modify her identity as a woman.
Everyone has different experiences growing up, that's just part of being human. There's no need to otherise the trans experience any more than we should otherise people who grew up poor, or autistic, or as orphans etc. We have words to describe all of these experiences, but those words don't take away from the baseline experience of being a human, of a certain gender, of a certain nationalty/ethnicity/culture etc.
To me, saying a trans woman is different from a woman is sort of like saying an American kid who grew up in a cult is not really an American, because his experience of the country differs so wildly. It just doesn't really make sense.

But it's hugely subjective as to whether holding your opinion is transphobic. I certainly wouldn't say so, especially given you don't seem to be dogmatic or nagging about it.
I do question the practice of referring to native trans people by their natal pronouns, but I don't know the culture well enough to judge, and commend treating foreign trans people by the standards they're used to. And I do think there are situations where acknowledging the differences between the trans and cis experiences are important, I just don't personally think that it requires drawing such a bold line in the sand.

>>8693005
this

being differentiated for no other reason than "you didnt bleed from ur vag when u were 11 and then be sexually harassed by adults because of your developing body" is just mean when otherwise my experiences when growing up were the same. ofc i live in finland and the whole gender equality thing is a big meme and i hung out with girls and stuff so yeah

>>8693159 (You) #
oh yeah and i did get sexually harassed by my fucking brother whos over 12 years older than me for being so girly

i dont want to see him or his dick ever again

>wears shirt that says "I'M TRANS!!!"
>when asked if trans, makes a dramatic scene and storms off
What a fucking retarded faggot

>>8689590

That comes off as transphobic even though the guy overreacted in this story

>>8689590
Honestly, you weren't being mean and didn't mean to sounds as mean. The other guy reacted very, well, dramatically. He has that shirt on so like, why does he care if you ask him if he was actually trans?

I think he must have gotten some kind of wrong idea from what you said, but what I would do is just apologize and say you didn't mean it in a bad way or anything, then just stay away from him.

Also yeah I'm ftm but I guess it doesn't make it much of a difference.

>>8689590
All trannies are mentally unstable. Get used to it.

>>8689639
>why we gay men hate you abominations
speak for yourself faggot

>>8693249
>but what I would do is just apologize and say you didn't mean it in a bad way or anything,
Yeah but that's because you're a cuck. No offense, but female socialization.

I know a lot of people who do shit like that and they are all hideous attention whores who like manipulating reactions out of people for w/e reason. I would've been just as blunt about it too.

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>be ftm
>wear a t-shirt that outs you as trans. obviously an attention whore
>person asks you if you're really trans like any other normal human being would.
>have a bitch fit like a mentally unstable woman would.
>leave in an autistic manner like a self entitled woman would.
>ftm
Really makes me think.

>>8694239
Female/male socialization is a meme from caraswarmers and the fact you're relying on alpha/beta/cuck /pol/ nu-speak terminology doesn't endear much trust in your opinions either.

>>8689639
>Get the fuck out of the gay community.
This is lol funny because I constantly see shitposts insisting mtfs are gay men and must live as such.

>>8694532
ftms never get down the whole "acting like a man" thing, because their autistic female brain is unable to control its emotions

>>8693005
>>8693159
OP here.
You misunderstand me.
I'm not just a "man." I'm more than that. I'm a gay man. A straight man has not had many of the experiences I have, though he and I share the experience of simply being "men."
Similarly, a transwoman may have the "woman" experience a ciswoman has had, but a transwoman is more than just a woman. She is a transwoman. And she has had experiences because of being a transwoman rather than a mere woman that a ciswoman will never have.
I don't deny a transwoman her womanhood, I just believe that she's more than that.

>>8694570
What is "acting like a man?"
I'm honestly asking, and not in a baiting sort of way. Being third culture, I notice that manliness in American culture and in my own are very different things. In mine, showing anger is unmanly, but in American culture, anger and aggression are touted as extremely manly. We say that American men act like little girls, throwing tantrums when they don't get their way. They say we're feminine for not 'speaking up' about things ('speaking up' seems to mean 'flipping out at the slightest inconvenience,' from the guy who passes you on the highway to anyone who has an opinion you don't agree with). We have a very 1950s, strong-and-silent understanding of manliness. So idklol.

>>8694553
Gays have female brains and can't keep their story straight just like women can't. Thus, they flipflop like mad between which variant of bullshit they want to believe in.

>>8694762
Kek @ you being completely serious (and making decent points); but that douche clearly just wanted to get a dig in on FtMs (even though pretty much every FtM in the thread thought your friend's friend was a colossal faggot), so he clearly didn't join the discussion to be rational.

>>8689590
Based on your story, I do think it was an overreaction considering he wore the shirt, and I hate people with attitudes like that, but I have to clarify one thing.

>>thatsnotwhatwasaskedtho.png
What did you actually say here? What were your exact words?

>>8697984
Scratch that, I missed your post explaining it at first.

This thread made me realize something interesting. Has anyone else noticed that anti-trans people intentionally misgender mtf transgenders, but never do the same for ftm transgenders? Like I've literally never seen one of those bigots refer to a ftm transgender as "she." Is there some sexism in that choice, or what?

>>8698003
That's not my experience at all. I think all you are observing is that most talk about trans people ignores the existence of FtMs.

>>8694762
>I'm not just a "man." I'm more than that. I'm a gay man. A straight man has not had many of the experiences I have, though he and I share the experience of simply being "men."
lolwtf, that's like the most reasonable position in the world, yeah sounds like your trans friend was just being a hypersensitive ideologue. Maybe she misunderstood you too, but even so she was still being overly sensitive.

>We say that American men act like little girls, throwing tantrums when they don't get their way
kek
Can I ask what culture you're from? Sounds pretty chill.

>>8698003
>but never do the same for ftm transgenders?
TERFs misgender FTMs all the time. So does /fit/, as a more casual example.
I think if you haven't seen it, it's more just a side effect of general FTM under-representation.

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Nah they're dumb. Normally it might be slightly more understandable if you just straight up publically outed a trans person. But they were outting themselves by wearing a trans tshirt so how is that transphobic? If you dont wanna be outed don't literally have a tshirt that outs you?

>>8689590
Maybe he forgot that he was wearing that shirt. Think about it

>>8698156
Yeah, I would not be surprised if that's the case here. It just seems too stupid otherwise.

>>8698003
FtM here; and if /pol/-tier people or TERFs REALIZE that, I get "she" from them all the fucking time.

If it appears otherwise, it's probably just because they assume that literally every trans person they're talking to is an MtF. There's a special irritation in having TERFs use male pronouns on me in the most obnoxious tone possible because they actually think they're misgendering me by doing so.

Not trans, but people who overreact to more or less innocent questions like that are the worst.

If I meet someone with my boyfriend and the genuinely ask me which one is the boy and which one is the girl, as ignorant straight people sometimes do, I wouldn't be upset, just calmly explain to them the answer. Fact is that lgbt will always be a small minority. Always. And as such it's unreasonable to expect the majority to understand every aspect about us. If they don't make an attempt to understand, sure. But nobody genuinely curious should be shamed.

>>8698168
How do you find terfs if i may ask? The only interaction i've had so far is someone being butthurt about me and some others when we were making fun of terfs and they instantly started to flame us as, calling us "insufferable" among other things. Otherwise i've never had any terf attack me and call me male/he/him except an insane mtf who called me a man because she hates me or something.

>>8698195
>find a right-leaning straight man online

>>8698204
no i mean man hating lesbian rad fems who are trans exclusive, not right wingers. I only find them in gender critical.

>>8689590
Ok. I get it.
[ >thatsnotwhatwasaskedtho.png ]
was literal.

Yeah, no, you arent in the wrong. He just interpreted that as figurative. Also, hes seemed a bit on edge. It sounds like he may have expected you to be an asshole and just jumped the gun. Probably some prior experiences that left him with an itchy trigger finger.
This opninion is coming from a literal autist though so take it with a grain of salt, anon.

>>8689623
This.
MtF

typical aiden trender action. she will get over it.