Should we allow conversion therapy for those who WANT it and

Yes, but nothing that could potentially cause physical damage.

>>8684192
No.
If you allow that, you must also allow conversion therapy for straight people who want to become gay.

>>8684192
Changing one's sexual orientation is obscene, wether aesthetically or philosophically. Why am I apparently the only one who can see it ?

>>8684227
Americans are obsessed with being able to change every last thing about their mind and body and they've exported that philosophy around the world.

It's an entire culture of "if you don't like it, pay this man all of your shekels and he'll make it 'better' for you!"

All bourne of great discontent of the self, from straights and gays alike.

>>8684192
No, because the entire idea is based on bullshit. You cannot change your sexual orientation, only your outward behavior

It's proven quackery.

Half the time, the people heading these clinics are suffering from a severe case of projection.

>>8684216
>If you allow that, you must also allow conversion therapy for straight people who want to become gay.
There is already its called 4chan.

>>8684192
It's the biscums who think these conversion therapies work, and they're only suppressing their attraction to the same sex.

And if you think children are still immature to drink, watch porn, take hormones, or consent to sex, then they're still immature to decide if they should torture themselves physically and emotionally.

>>8684192

As long as they pay for it out of their own pocket and consent to it why not?

People are allowed to waste billions on homeopathy, and that's nothing but quackery.

>>8684192
problem with that is constantly telling people being gay is wrong after enough time gets to them and they might not even realize it. So they do this bullshit and experience pain THEY DONT TRUELY WANT.

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>>8684192
It should be mandatory for all

They're welcome to, but mostly it's parents forcing it on confused children and teens.

>>8684412
Confuses them into what?

>were not coerced into it?
We all know this little "condition" will be violated "for the sake of the children" every single time.

>>8684192
It should be legalized only under the following conditions:
>It should be allowed only by direct consent from the person receiving conversion therapy. For example, conversion therapy on minors is outlawed even if the parents of the person in question consent to it. Likewise, if someone is mentally incompetent, no other person may consent for them.
>Providers should be required to clearly indicate that conversion therapy techniques are not considered an effective or legitimate treatment by any medical authority.
>Conversion therapy shall not be subsidized by state or federal government programs, including coverage by publicly funded health insurance.

>>8684414
That's not what the post said.

>>8684366
>As long as they pay for it out of their own pocket and consent to it why not?
It's not like you gays who struggle for acceptance could fall for that shit.

>>8684428
>It should be legalized only under the following conditions:
It shouldn't. It's a brutal torture that has been denounced by pretty much everyone. All you get is a tortured "ex-gay" that at best will go back to sucking cock and struggle with his feeling but most likely will kill himself.

>>8684192
>be this stupid and retarded you got brainwashed to believe hitting yourself with a belt frees you from your evil sins
>Keep hitting yourself because you are a retard
lol

>>8684428
>It should be legalized only under the following conditions:
>>It should be allowed only by direct consent from the person receiving conversion therapy. For example, conversion therapy on minors is outlawed even if the parents of the person in question consent to it. Likewise, if someone is mentally incompetent, no other person may consent for them.
>>Providers should be required to clearly indicate that conversion therapy techniques are not considered an effective or legitimate treatment by any medical authority.
>>Conversion therapy shall not be subsidized by state or federal government programs, including coverage by publicly funded health insurance.

The conditions should be the same as the ones applied to transition minors.

>>8684428
>Conversion therapy shall not be subsidized by state or federal government programs, including coverage by publicly funded health insurance.
Neither should transition or PrEP

>>8684192
should we allow a proven ineffective, psuedoscientific, and non-evidence based treatment that leads to later psychological damage? hmm, OP, I don't know

Yes it should, never will be though as the gay lobby is too strong.

We have this thread all the time, no one gets anywhere and people who talk about wanting it are slapped down

>>8684598
>muh gay (((conspiracy)))

>>8684440
I'd say that people have a right to be idiots and ruin their own lives, if they really want to. As long as parents aren't allowed to force their children into it, and providers aren't allowed to market it as a legitimate medical procedure, I don't see the problem with it being legal, as there's no manipulation or coercion going on. It would at least make the "muh freedumbs" crowd stop whining about it.

>>8684587
>>8684588
Transition is regarded as a legitimate medical treatment by the relevant authorities. Don't like it? Take it up with them.

>>8684640
>I'd say that people have a right to be idiots and ruin their own lives, if they really want to.
The fact the option exist makes it more likely to people to ruin their life. Do you know how many gay struggle for acceptance? Do you think some low-self esteem gay would not try?

This isn't like smocking a cigarette, it's fucking psychological culture that require multiple people taking active part on it. No to mention IT DOESN'T WORK, so what's the fucking point.

>>8684587
Except child transition has scientifically proven benefits for trans minors. Conversion therapy doesn't.

No. It's pseudomedicine, which is something that should be outlawed entirely, including shit like homeopathy and chiropracty. Pseudomedicine extorts the desperate under the guise of being a noble attempt at helping people who are out of options, it's pure evil.

>>8684192
for those who want it without coercion I do not see why not, everybody should be able to ruin their lives, look at trannies they seem more happy after transitioning before committing suicide

>>8684778
>equating an evidence based treatment for a recognized mental illness to psuedoscientific quackery that causes psychological trauma

I never realized until I was 30

There were no signs, I wasn't ever attracted to dudes, went to sauna saw tons of dicks and it all never did anything for me

If I was like this since before puberty okay but it was all women for me back then. I don't even understand how it could have happened although looking back it must have started around age 25.

I dont want this, I realize there might not be a way back but at least give me a chance to try. It's extremely cruel to go through something like this and you can't even imagine if you've felt this for a long time. I wasn't in denial, there was nothing to deny for fucks sake. I had wet dreams with women in them. I still want women romantically but somehow through being shit with them all my life its all switched into being one and getting pounded by a dude.

And yet the LGBT community keeps denying even a chance to turn at least bi for me, they act like its the greatest evil in the world. Maybe if I went through and it didn't do anything it would help me realize this is it.

Its all human psychology, they are just as dogmatic as the catholic church was about their shit and there's even no science to back this up.

Just let people make their own fucking choices

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>>8684598
>teh gaye lobby iz to stronk
Kek

>>8684791
If people can hire masters/mistresses to torture them, then gays should be able to hire people to torture them too.

>>8684807
The problem with conversion therapy isn't adults choosing it, it's minors being forced into it by unaccepting parents.

>>8684803
>I still want women romantically but somehow through being shit with them all my life its all switched into being one and getting pounded by a dude.

I think there may be something wrong with you.

>>8684806
They managed to get the Constitution torn up, so...

>>8684832
kekekekekekek
I didn't know gays dissolved the government

>>8684832
No, it was a bunch of straights, actually.

>>8684803
a g p
g
p

>>8684803
>Just let people make their own fucking choices
Except this choice is futile, results in self-harem and suicide and would be exploit for inhuman practices?

>And yet the LGBT community keeps denying even a chance to turn at least bi for me,
You can't turn bi.

>>8685052
>resulting in self-harem
Heh.

>>8685052
>You can't turn bi.
Why not?

>>8684791
yeah but we all know how trannies end

>>8685106
Because you can't? If you want to fuck women and get hot at women you are probably already bi.

People have been tried to change gay men for over a century. New at 11: Shit doesn't work.

>>8684639
>>8684806

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or (((you know who))) but rather that Stonewall, PFLAG, GLAAD etc. are providing some not very skilled people quite well paid jobs and a chance to feel important. Simply googling 'conversion therapy' brings a page full of negative coverage of the practise, yes it might not work but it's not like the gay lobby is pushing for anything but 'just be yourself guys xD' rather than serious investigation into any kind of therapy or treatment for egodystonic sexual orientation

sorry for sperging

>>8685173
>People have been tried to change gay men for over a century.
Probably much longer than that. Actually.

>>8685173
>it hasn't been done therefore it's impossible

>>8684192
Assisted suicide isn't allowed either so I'd say no.

>>8684192

If they had a cure, then sure, why not?

>>8685189
>egodystonic
>if I put complicated words in my discourse, I'll appear smarter
You don't.

>>8685345

I'm not smart, I did some research because it describes me.

I haven't been to or tried any conversion therapy but it shouldn't be off limits for people who wish to try it, and we shouldn't shame them for that choice

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>>8684192

Ive droned on about this numerous times here.

You cant remove an attraction.

But you can add a new one.

But you have to sell the social benefits of being with women because they sure as fuck dont sell themselves.

If you arent making kids, it makes no difference if you like either.

Until this culture gets off the couch to make family an asset to be prized by men instead of feared, it wont sell. Straight implied a lifestyle, not just an attraction.

You cant be fapping to lesbian Japanese traps until you're too old to start a family and call yourself straight.

Goddammit, stop this lunacy of trying to remove sodomy from 3% of the population and concentrate on the 97% that wont breed without a gun to their head. Instead of focusing on removing homosexual, work on making some goddam heterosexual that are actually worth something to society.

And you wont do it with a bunch of prurient minded quack psychologists. You need a cultural movement that says being a good mom and dad fucking makes you heros in a world of savages. If you dont sell it, youve got nothing.

>>8685242
I guess human can fly after all.

>>8685189
It's not like homosexuality was left unchecked during the 50 and a lot of countries tried to experiment with gay men to change them back.

>>8685475
>Goddammit, stop this lunacy of trying to remove sodomy from 3%
I love how all of this ignore lesbians who can also procreate NP.

>>8685543
>change back
>back

>>8685543

I'm sorry, what?

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>>8685548

yeah that will work out. We have centuries of history to back this up. Yup.

>>8685604
>yeah that will work out. We have centuries of history to back this up. Yup.
It's almost like all a woman needs nowadays is some sperm?

>>8685608
>One shithead family
Woah anon! Let me tell the story of heterosexual men locking their dauthers in their basement raping them and making incest babies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

>>8685591
Read what the U.K. did to gay men in the fifty.

>>8685619

I am from the UK and let me tell you that our government did some shady stuff back then from the death of Ronald Maddison to detonating nuclear bombs in the middle of aboriginal homelands in Australia

I'd like to know how homosexuality was left 'unchecked', it was illegal for men to have consensual sex in the UK before 1967 and societal homophobia remains today, also like >>8685562 said it's not like it was done using sound science that we could experiment with today, provided that enough test subjects would volunteer

>>8685638
Female homosexual sex was never illegal.

>>8685638
>I'd like to know how homosexuality was left
I meant there was no (((jews)))) like you claim shielding homosexual and people did all the awful things to us and guess what, they still couldn't change gay men orientation (since you only care about those and not lesbians)

People keep trying even today, with christian camps and the kind of hidden shit that you only hear year after. Guess what?

It doesn't work.

>>8685615

But Fritzl did nothing wrong. It was his own daughter, after all.

>>8685657

That's why I said men lmao, women had been held back in society more so than men and have lower sex drives, but it's the same in many countries as lesbians were less visible than gay men

>>8685658

I'm a gay male, I don't know anything about how lesbians conduct themselves. I say the things I do because I tried various ways to change or repress my orientation, none of which worked, but I am compassionate towards those who are troubled by their feelings. The worst advice I read was 'just come it, It Gets Better™', it just made me feel ever more isolated and alone. Truly 'just be yourself xD' tier info

>I meant there was no (((jews)))) like you claim shielding homosexual

What does this mean? Where do Jews come into it?

>>8685702
>That's why I said men lmao,
uh
>I'd like to know how homosexuality was left 'unchecked'

>women had been held back in society more so than men
?

>as lesbians were less visible than gay men
You mean because of female privilege and misandry.

>>8685698
Pretending you were joking won't prevent you from going to hell. You know.

>>8685710

>lesbian sex was never illegal (in the UK)
>that's why I mentioned the laws against gay men that affected men only?

>I'd like to know how homosexuality was left 'unchecked'

I have no idea about what 'unchecked' meant so I asked, given the legal and societal penalties for being gay

>women had been held back in society more so than men

Monitored more closely, less chance for financial independence, stronger expectation for women to marry than men, stereotypes of the 'spinster' vs the 'bachelor' etc.

>You mean because of female privilege and misandry.

I dunno what this means, sound a bit tumblr to me

>>8684192
Yes, and it should be covered by health insurance.

>>8685702
>What does this mean? Where do Jews come into it?
I was answering to poll tard originally. Who else uses (((( ))))?


>>8685702
>I don't know anything about how lesbians conduct themselves. I
Lesbians have it easier because gay men at worst find them annoying, but also it's natural for them to find lesbians hot.

Meanwhile, they are afraid of gay men.

>>8685723
Pretending Hell exists won't save you from the endless void that will be your actual death.

>>8685985

I know who (((these people))) are, I thought you were talking to me

Have to say I also never understood why lesbians got a pass until I saw the image straight men had of them

>>8684192

no

Much in the way that we don't allow people to be trepanned even if they want to be.

Outdated medical theories proven to be bullshit aren't allowed.

>>8685242
You'd have a point if conversion therapy actually used new and scientifically proven methods instead of the same old torture and "what would Jesus do?".

There is literally no reliable evidence at all that conversion therapy is effective at anything other than making you want to off yourself. Don't fall for pseudoscience.

>>8687909
>it isn't being done now therefore it's impossible

>>8687918
Yes, it is impossible that conversion therapy will suddenly start to work despite using the same centuries-old methods that have never, ever worked before. The laws of nature don't magically change, sexual orientation isn't suddenly going to become malleable just because the calender ticked to 2017.

Maybe in the future there will be an actual gay- cure pill or something, that doesn't mean any exists right now and all the evidence is against anything even close to it existing.

>>8687933
Who was defending current methods?

>>8687933
If gender is malleable, why isn't sexual orientation?

>>8687978
Gender isn't malleable, who told you that? Most of your sex characteristics are, but not your innate gender identity.

>>8687939
The point is that you can't turn bi, or any other orientation. Maybe in the future you could, I don't deny that, but as of now you can't so it's silly to say conversion therapy is a good thing because of that.

>>8687990
>implying gender fluidity doesn't exist

>>8687999
It doesn't.

>>8687997
>you can't turn bi, or any other orientation.
no reason why not, it just won't be through conversion therapy.

>>8688001
Fuck off, bigot.

>>8688007
>>>/Reddit/

>>8687999
It literally doesn't, fuck you

>>8688027
>>>/20thCentury/

You bigots are losing. Soon, you'll all die off and the truth about gender and sexual preference fluidity will be acknowledged.

>>8688007
>le /pol/ strawman

>>8688029
>>8688034
I don't understand. People can decide what gender they want to be, but sexual orientation is set in stone?

>>8688032
Just kill yourself, you will eventually, statistically speaking.

>>8688036
The only thing keeping me alive is watching all these wh*te males crying as they lose their oppressor status.

>>8688035
No one decides their gender identity, it's just how you are. Same as sexual orientation.

And regardless, even if you could choose gender identity, it wouldn't mean you can choose sexual orientation. They're different things.

>>8688040
Look who's president sweetie, you only have your little Marxist charades because we allow you to.

>>8688050
>it's just who you are

This is true. Some people oscillate between sexual orientations. It's not fixed. This is why conversion therapy works.

>>8684328
Criminally underrated post.

>>8688035
>People can decide what gender they want to be
I didn't choose to be trans. My gender identity has been stable as long as I remember.

>>8688036
>Just kill yourself, you will eventually, statistically speaking.
[citation needed]