How does /tttt/ fit into these?

>>8663291
Got like 6 on HSTS and just about all but two or so on AGP ;-;

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no bingo in either

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why do i feel like half of these are just arbitrarily placed?

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>>8663291
DOUBLE BINGO

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no bingo :(

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Reasonably accurate tbdesu

t. Unapologetic agp

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>>8663291
>multiple hsts bingos

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I'm neither? This test is dumb.

Agreeing with >>8663347

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>>8663291
Erm?? A mix of both then??

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>tfw Trutrans(tm)

>>8663291
>imagined self as a disney princess
>were a tranny prostitute in teenage years
well that sure escalated quickly

mix of both, slightly more agp

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What is this supposed to mean? I'm about half a year into transition rn and still not full time but I have a bf and more or less live full time online. I get paranoid that I'm some sort of agp fetishist sometimes but these little test or questionare thingies never fully describe me as either of the two categories.

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FtM, filled out as if gender and gender stereotypes were reversed, and swapping TumblrTrans for AGP. I think my degree in STEM counts as a -1? Not sure how to score that.

A lot of these seem like trutrans things Envying cis people for what they were allowed to do? What kind of trans person doesn't do that? Dysphoria kind of fundamentally means you have problems with mirrors. And it's always been a mystery to me what anti-AGP people seem to think that truetrans should be jerking off to. Because I definitely have the correct genitals in my head when I'm jerking off, so that would make me whatever the inverse of AGP is by default.

Like jeez, I know I've got aggression problems towards Tumblr pastel prince bois re: them not being "actually trans", but I'm realizing increasingly that a lot of it comes from my own self-loathing, so maybe you all could benefit from a good look inwards to think about why you're so aggressive about proving you're "really" trans.

>>8664893
We're so insecure about reallt being trans because when you have a penis everybody will attribute each and every thing to you trying to put it into things or your lack of an ability to put it into things.

>>8664926
Yeah, cis guys pretty much fucked you all on that one, didn't they.

>>8664893
AGP is really trans though

>>8664966
The sad part is that they're not wrong. Most cis guys that I know have 1 or 2 hobbies and then everything else they care about is women and sex.

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>>8663291
What do I win?

>>8664893
>but I'm realizing increasingly that a lot of it comes from my own self-loathing, so maybe you all could benefit from a good look inwards to think about why you're so aggressive about proving you're "really" trans.
I actually just realized the other day that the moment I stopped trying to justify myself to TERF ideals and stopped caring about whether or not I was TruTrans™ was the same moment when all my self-loathing disappeared. I was going crazy with worry over what everyone thought of me, even though I know I look like a cute boy at worst.

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Okay, so I also filled it out as a FtM and gender-swapped stuff. I'm sure some things don't translate though.

HSTS:

- my actual earliest memory
- played with boys
- can't think of any feminine interests
- saying I was a boy...sorta (I actually realized I was trans pre-puberty)
- "mistaken" for a boy even with long hair
- went through a period where I convinced myself I was straight and hated being considered part of LGBT...but I'm bi, so idk if I should check that
- if I swap "AGP" with Tumblr trenders...but these are the people who SAY they don't
- masturbated to pictures and videos, purchased vids pre-T
- literally didn't even "come out" to my parents
- what's the converse of "Disney princess, "swashbuckling hero"? But undoubtedly
- tomboy
- only ever pretended to be male characters/Lego people/yada
- tried to talk girls I was forced to play with into letting me be the "daddy" instead of the "baby" in "House" and then suggested "mommy" and "daddy" kiss for practice
- Prostitution - wtf? Dunno if there's a converse, but that seems too OTT
- I did run away, but for complicated reasons, dunno if I should check this
- Boy's clothing, binding, etc.
- I assume this translates as "baby dyke"
- Constantly

A*P - same criticisms as the other guy:
- Of course I envied cis boys...isn't this all trans people?
- Definitely knew I couldn't date a straight boy because I'd hate myself for putting myself in the position of being "the girl"
- Played male characters exclusively in vidya, but idk if this translates since vidya is supposedly a "male" interest
- Of COURSE I didn't want to be like my dad!
- I definitely wanted to BE the guys I was also attracted to as a kid.
- Of COURSE I hated mirrors!
- I'm kind of autistic

But yeah, I'm bi/gay-leaning, so "homosexual transsexual" is clearly not applicable. This is why Blanchard strikes me as such bullshit - how can I be more "HSTS" and gay, guys?

>>8666198
>if I swap "AGP" with Tumblr trenders...
Trenders mostly aren't AAP.

>Prostitution - wtf? Dunno if there's a converse, but that seems too OTT
For FTMs prostitution is AAP.

>Played male characters exclusively in vidya,
AAP.

>I definitely wanted to BE the guys I was also attracted to as a kid.
Extremely AAP.

>I'm bi/gay-leaning
AAP confirmed.

>how can I be more "HSTS" and gay,
Choose one.

>>8666359
>Trenders mostly aren't AAP.
Completely contradicting yourselves here. Trenders are mostly girly gay FtMs who watch MLP. They are sex-swapped opposites of masculine Marines who transition late.

>>Played male characters exclusively in vidya,
>AAP.
-natal male, male interest, female characters - AGP
-natal female, male interest, male characters - AAP
The sole defining characteristic of Blanchardians is the inability to keep their story straight.

>>I definitely wanted to BE the guys I was also attracted to as a kid.
>Extremely AAP.
I wouldn't even argue with this, but I share that trait with a LOT of cis gays (especially as teenagers - I pretty much grew out of this post-puberty, as a lot of cis gays do). You're not making an argument for the etiology of my transness with this, though.

>>I'm bi/gay-leaning
>AAP confirmed.
LMAO.

>>how can I be more "HSTS" and gay,
>Choose one.
I can't "choose one" without actually retconning my childhood to be more """AAP""" instead. And if I had any doubts that my more """HSTS"""-type childhood is actually the retconned version (I don't, but let's say I did), I have the confirmation of my parents who've told me dozens of similar things that I myself don't remember anymore.

Essentially, I can fill out more of the left side than the other yet be declared to be trans-cuz-fetish because I like dick.

You guys really can't accept how bullshit this is, can you?

>>8663291
This sounds like bullshit. Do people actually believe this?

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I don't believe in the Blanchardian narrative but I took it anyway
I'm definitely AGP in one way or another, I'm also a naturally somewhat kinda effeminate twink-ish kinda guy (helps that I look younger than I actually am), and lately I just haven't been able to masturbate much to either men or women
So idk if I'm trans or not, maybe it's just a pipe dream of mine to be a woman, maybe the grass is greener on the other side, maybe I just need to make the leap and find out or maybe I should just forget about it.

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Which one am I?

>>8666898
Trans. You're trans. This voodoo typology has been debunked in a dozen way, but the cultists here don't listen.

>>8666903
What would Blanchard think I am?

>>8666832
>Trenders are mostly girly gay FtMs who watch MLP. They are sex-swapped opposites of masculine Marines who transition late.
Trenders are mostly not trans at all. It looks like you're just talking about the ones who do transition though, who as you say are the sex-swap of masculine Marine hons and are AAP.

>natal male, female characters - AGP
>natal female, male characters - AAP
FTFY.

>but I share that trait with a LOT of cis gays (especially as teenagers
I question this.

>LMAO.
*shrugs*

>without actually retconning my childhood
AAPs can be fairly masculine and AGPs can be fairly feminine. OP's bingo badly ignores this. A better HSTS bingo would be scoring no points on the A*P bingo. As it is, it's just a "how feminine an AGP/how masculine an AAP are you" bingo thrown on to the A*P bingo.

>I have the confirmation of my parents
Parents are unreliable too.

>>8666912
A man, regardless of whether you were HSTS or AGP

>>8666898
Arousal from crossdressing = AGP.

>>8666915
>natal male, female characters - AGP
>natal female, male characters - AAP
>FTFY.
You fixed nothing, since this now contradicts all forms of childhood play on the left side. Why is "played female characters in childhood role play" on the HSTS side and not the AGP side if the part that makes it AGP is playing a female role? Either it should be on the right, or "played females in vidya" should be on the left. But the former makes no sense, since any trans girl who was strongly fem as a kid would undoubtedly play Let's Pretend as a female character.

The ONLY thing that distinguishes these two things is that gaming is considered a "male" interest, which is why it's utter nonsense by the same standard to consider "plays male characters in games" to be AAP. If anything, that square should be on the left for FtMs and the "role play" square should be on the right (since that behaviour, past a certain age, is arguably more feminine).

I don't think it really matters though, since if you ask me play is play. I didn't even play video games on console as a kid because they were "boy's" toys that my parents refused to buy for me, I could only play on PC. I was shoved into more RP-type play with other kids, though.

>I question this.
There's a wealth of gay coming-of-age stories out there. Not my issue that I read them and you didn't.

>Parents are unreliable too.
Oh yeah, both of my parents are retconning my history the exact same way - not to mention extended family, friends of the family and doctors who knew me as a kid. That's terribly likely.

>AAPs can be fairly masculine and AGPs can be fairly feminine. OP's bingo badly ignores this. A better HSTS bingo would be scoring no points on the A*P bingo. As it is, it's just a "how feminine an AGP/how masculine an AAP are you" bingo thrown on to the A*P bingo.
You realize that if this is the case, we have another term for the HSTS/A*P categorization, right?

It's called: sexual orientation.

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Bullshit test, AGP doesn't even exist it was made by Christians to attempt and discredit trans.

>Attraction to guys came as a surprise
Do people experience attraction for the first time without surprising themselves? I was surprised when I realised the feelings I had towards a girl were those of romantic attraction (I was ~10 yo). I was just as surprised when I experienced the same feelings towards a boy (I was ~14 yo).
t. cis male

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AGP is a disease and either transition or suicide is the cure

>>8667066
>The ONLY thing that distinguishes these two things is that gaming is considered a "male" interest,
No. To generalize, play with other children is social, vidya is solo. HSTS femininity is the social type, needing to be the girl in social interaction. AGP femininity is personal, needing to see themselves as a girl. Taking a female role in play vs picking a female avatar.

>There's a wealth of gay coming-of-age stories out there.
Links?

>sexual orientation
Considering AGP is a sexual orientation and HSTS applies to homosexuals, yes.

>>8667072
Regardless of whether you believe in the Freund-Blanchard HSTS/AGP typology, AGP exists. You literally masturbated to the thought of being a girl. Are you trolling, or just idiotic?

>>8667072
>AGP doesn't even exist
t. jerks off to crossdressing and fantasizing being female

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No regrets.

>>8667145
>freund-blanchard

You should stop pretending to be smarter then you actually are.

>nobody can define crossdressing fetishes a different way to ME

>MY BELIEVEEES ARE SPECUL

the arguments of the blanchard troll in action

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Wew, forgot the image.

>>8667168
>the blanchard troll
???

>>8667174
I feel sorry for all those who fall for your trolling too.

>>8667168
I said Freund-Blanchard out of credit to Freund. Nothing to do with intelligence.
Hell, I'm not even a fucking Blanchardist. I'm just being realistic when I saw AGP is a thing.

>>8667179
>I'm not even (x), I just happen to support every facet of (x) h-haha isn't that just kooky?

this doesn't work for stormfags and it doesn't work for you either

Begone to repgen.

>>8667179
Freund is an irrelevant pissant and no authority suffixes his name "out of credit". You added it to demonstrate how good you are at Wikipedia.

>>8667184
I'm not a Blanchardist because I don't believe all gynephilic MtFs are AGP, or that HSTSs are just gay men who want sexual access to straight men.
Are you really denying that some men have a fetish of seeing themselves as female (a ridiculous claim), or are you going to nitpick the language of my post?
Also, I don't repress. Fuck, I've been to repgen maybe once. At least make your irrelevant assumptions accurate.
>>8667192
Freund isn't irrelevant; Blanchard has credited him as his predecessor. You're the only one making it about my supposed Wikipedia abilities.

>>8667207
>Are you really denying that some men have a fetish of seeing themselves as female
Please don't misgender.

>>8667277
To be fair, some men have AGP. AGP can remain entirely a sexual fantasy without developing into significant dysphoria. But fine. Males.

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>>8667145
"A*P" as a type of sexual interest/fantasy obviously exists. It just has nothing to do with the etiology of transgenderism. Blanchardians who argue it does CONSTANTLY change the description of "A*P" when challenged, to the point that the entire concept is utterly unfalsifiable.

>>8667132
>To generalize, play with other children is social, vidya is solo.
Nothing about the "role-play" square requires you to be playing with other children, and multiplayer video games are so popular that game companies feel unreasonable pressure to add multiplayer to games that would really do better as longer single-player campaigns. There is no reason whatsoever to consider RPing an inherently more social activity than games.

You've also clearly never played a game in your life if you think ELECTRONIC forms of role-playing are merely about picking "an avatar."

>Links?
You want me to link the "gay" section of my local public library? They're called "books," go find your own public library. Like I'd even remember the titles of all the "gay teen" books I read as a kid, lord.

>Considering AGP is a sexual orientation
In months of reading this crap, I haven't seen one iota of evidence for this. A sexual orientation determines who you are attracted to; I have seen no evidence that being "A*P" decides who you are attracted to, rather than who you are attracted to determining what kind of "A*P" fantasies you have. The direction of causation strikes me as FAR more likely to be going in the second direction, or else you're proposing that cis gays and lesbians are ALSO queer because they're "A*P."

People also discuss this typology as though you can ONLY be either AGP or AAP, but you can be attracted to both men and women...if this is a sexual orientation, why not both?

>>8667318
>Nothing about the "role-play" square requires you to be playing with other children
That's what the square meant though.

>You want me to link
evidence of your claims, correct.

>I haven't seen one iota of evidence for this.
Read harder.

>The direction of causation strikes me as FAR more likely to be going in the second direction, or else you're proposing that cis gays and lesbians are ALSO queer because they're "A*P."
What's your logic here?

>>8667318
>Blanchardians who argue it does CONSTANTLY change the description of "A*P" when challenged,
[citation needed]

>>8667145
>>8667154
The problem stems from the question itself. When it said "Masturbate while thinking of yourself as a girl" if you are trans, and sexually aroused would you not imagine youself as a girl having sex? Being a girl isn't want sexually arouses me, I wear women's panties and jeans all the time without sexual arousal, but when I do get sexually arouse because I have a girl brain I don't want to be a male and thrust into someone, I want to be a girl and be sexually treated like a girl.

Try harder next time.

>>8667503
>When it said "Masturbate while thinking of yourself as a girl"
It didn't say that. Try harder liar.

>>8667503
It said "Masturbated TO BEING a girl", not "while thinking of yourself as a girl". In other words, the thought the aroused you to help you masturbate was the pure thought of being a girl. Definitely AGP.

>>8667539
You're right I shouldn't have quoted it. It said "Masturbated to being the girl" which I took as meaning "Masturbate while thinking of yourself as a girl" which is why I said that it applied.

>>8667559
Doesn't apply to me then, read my previous explanation.

>>8667567
>>8667559
Also, I think I make it really clear given that I wrote two explanations on there that I was being as liberal with interpretation as possible.

>>8667567
You still ticked "Got erections when dressing up in women's clothing" and "Imagining yourself as the girl used to/does turn you on"...

Anyway not everybody misread it just because you did.

>>8667503
Yeah I was honestly kind of confused by this question too. What does it mean by "the girl"? The girl in what? Who? I'm A girl, not THE girl.

>>8667635
You don't understand it because it doesn't apply to you. The people it does apply to know exactly what it means.

>>8667587
Liberal interpretation again. I checked it because I have had an erection while wearing women's clothing not because of the women's clothing.

Sometimes imagining myself as a girl does turn me on. Sometimes I just imagine myself as a girl. I.E. It does turn me on when I imagine going down on a dick as a girl or something else.

Try again?

>>8667668
>Sometimes imagining myself as a girl does turn me on.
A G P
G
P

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>>8666198
Blanchard only studied MTF trannies, so if you're FTM most of his theories don't apply. Blanchard doesn't even think autoandrophilia is a thing.

>>8667346
>That's what the square meant though.
Then what does it mean? It just says "role-playing." It says nothing about doing it with other children around. There was no reason for me to presume it always (or ever) involved other children (and I didn't).

>evidence of your claims, correct.
I can't link a physical object. But maybe you could branch out and try to read things written by people who are not like you? Growing up, I read coming-of-age stories (fiction and nonfiction) by straight and gay people, male and female. The idea that a lot of young gays sublimate their desires in hero-worship shouldn't seem like some crazy [citation needed] concept, holy shit.

>Read harder.
Where? What? I check out most of the AGP threads here out of morbid fascination. They've all been stupid, and the cited evidence against the theory ignored.

>What's your logic here?
What's your confusion?

I notice you avoided explaining how the heck AGP is supposed to be a sexual orientation.

>>8667381
Read the fucking board. Whenever people here contradict themselves, either someone changes how AGP is described, or they say, "that's what some OTHER Blanchardfags say, but THEY don't understand it."

There is no consistent description that everyone can agree on. That's a fact.

>>8667837
That's because Blanchard is the kind of old-school-sexologist moron who believes females essentially don't have a sexuality of their own. His kind of view permeates sexology of previous decades.

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Eh, expected as much.

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Welp, it's not like I give a fuck about the entire AGP/HSTS thing or anything.

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>>8663291
What now?

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Bingo ;_;

Sometimes wish I had died in Iraq.
Kinda stung to see that one on there.

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No bingo

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agp ww@

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hello :3

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While I fall under the category of agp, I don't see what I've done as a fetish. I genuinely wish to be biologically female and not a fake imitation. Knowing that crude mimicry is as far as it can get makes it really frustrating sometimes. It hurts imagining how things could have been if I was actually born biologically female instead. Dating my childhood friend, being able to birth a child, experiencing female socialization. Basically everything I lost being born male instead.

>>8673081
AGP isn't a fetish, it's a sexual orientation and a cause of dysphoria/transsexuality.

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Bingo on both

>>8663291
Not wanting to grow up and look like your father is AGP? What retard made this?

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I have a cis girlfriend, and have dated and enjoyed men in the past, btw. I used to fetishize being a girl when I was slutting it up as a trap but after i made steps towards my transition it pretty much went away

>>8667897
>It just says "role-playing." It says nothing about doing it with other children around.
What were your solo role-playing games?

>young gays sublimate their desires in hero-worship
Hero-worship =/= desire to be.

>the cited evidence against the theory
???

>What's your confusion?
How you came to believe what you said.

>>8676550
>What were your solo role-playing games?
Have you ever read "Calvin & Hobbes"? Pretty much exactly like that. My mom gave me C&H books because "he's exactly like you."

>Hero-worship =/= desire to be.
Not always, but it frequently does. And/or you can misinterpret repressed desire for others AS the desire to be them.

>???
Every time someone here posts a study that disputes some aspect of Blanchardian theory, the autists here freak out and in some cases explicitly state that they refuse to read it because they already know it's wrong.

This is how you get people outright insisting that sexual orientation maps 100% to the AGP/HSTS split even though Blanchard himself didn't find that.

>How you came to believe what you said.
I've seen cis people express feelings that are "A*P," especially if they're gay. A few cis people on this board have started threads specifically to SAY that they're A*P (e.g. cis lesbians saying they're AGP or cis gays saying they're AAP). Should I believe that cis gays are gay because they're A*P, or believe that they're more likely than straights to be A*P because they're gay?

>>8676605
>My mom gave me C&H books because "he's exactly like you."
Right, because being male appealed internally to you because you were AAP, rather than you adopting a male role among other children, as an HSTS would.

>And/or you can misinterpret repressed desire for others AS the desire to be them.
And vice versa in the case of A*Ps.

>the autists here freak out and in some cases explicitly state that they refuse to read it because they already know it's wrong.
While you on the other hand are fully convinced by Moser.

>I've seen cis people express feelings that are "A*P," especially if they're gay.
Examples?

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>>8663291
BINGO

>someone on here accused me of being HSTS once

>>8676805
>blatantly agp
>gets multiple hsts bingos and no agp bingo
this bingo needs work

>>8673565
>I have a cis girlfriend
AGP.

>>8679725
kek

>>8676692
>Right, because being male appealed internally to you because you were AAP, rather than you adopting a male role among other children, as an HSTS would.
Wtf does being like Calvin as a kid while alone have to do with how I played when I was with other kids? I wasn't stating that I did not play with other children; I said that I didn't interpret that square as necessarily MEANING that you were playing with other children.

As I stated above, for this to have ANY validity those two squares should probably be reversed for FtMs - again, boys don't role-play much together. We got into water balloon/water gun fights, we did daredevil tricks on bikes/skateboards/snow sleds, we played street hockey, we went exploring in the creek, we played parkour and jumped across the garage roofs and climbed on the cars around the neighbourhood (whoo, got in massive trouble for that), we jumped off high places and risked breaking our legs, we played bumper cars on tricycles and chicken on bikes, and we played...video games.

We didn't "role-play" much - I can only remember one of my friends who was obsessed with WWF who wanted to play with his wrestling figurines together. It's not like we played House and argued over who got to be the Daddy - that's shit that girls do.

I didn't need to read Moser to have observed "AGP" in cis women all my life.

And no, I'm not going to try and find those threads. A third of all threads here have "AGP" in the title; I could probably spend my life combing the archives just to prove to you that those threads existed. For what? You're totally invested in your moon theory, to the point that you're literally trying to inform ME how I behaved as a child over my own actual explanations of how I ACTUALLY behaved as a child. You're a nutjob. You remind me of pedos I've argued with telling me how my own abuse wasn't bad for me - this shit is like gaslighting. Really speaks to how solid this theory is.

>>8676824
or maybe, just maybe, agp is a meme and so is this bingo

>>8684638
>your moon theory
>You're a nutjob.
AGP BTFO

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>>8663291
Aren't many of these interchangeable? Like:
>envied girls for the things they were allowed to do in childhood
>prayed or wished to be a girl
>Never wanted to look or be like your fater& wanted grow up to be like mother
i don't get it why people are so obsessed about other people here

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rip

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>>8663291
Does this thread alone debunk Blanchard and the AGP vs HSTS dichotomy?

>>8663291
I can't because FtMs don't care about making AAP bingo and genderswapping tiles doesn't work

>>8666915
>AAPs can be fairly masculine and AGPs can be fairly feminine. OP's bingo badly ignores this. A better HSTS bingo would be scoring no points on the A*P bingo. As it is, it's just a "how feminine an AGP/how masculine an AAP are you" bingo thrown on to the A*P bingo.
Bingo memes are stereotype checks, not diagnostic tools

>>8663291
A lot of the hsts questions has to do with expressing transexual feelings and a lot of the agp ones seems like they stem from repessing.

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Double bingo

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>mfw none of these apply to me, except for being a lonely skinny twink

unsure whether Blanchtards BTFO or I'm not actually trans

>>8688468
No it debunks OP's bingo.

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This is dumb

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neither