How do conservatives solve intersex?

God doesn't make mistakes.

There's an intersex thread literally two posts up

>>8662831
you get whichever of the 2 genders you look like the most, easy

>>8662845
This thread is about conservatives and intersex, the other thread is literally about wanting to be intersex

>>8662831
They're such a statistical anomaly that it's ludicrous to turn society's current conception of gender on its head just to accommodate them.

>>8662958
That ... wasn't what I was asking

>>8662967
If they are able to bear children then they should act like women. Not rocket science, is it?

>>8663011
What happens if they don't act like women, will they be exorcised?

>>8662849
You mean sexes, genders are myths.

>>8662958
It's ludicrous to accept the clearly fake just because it's too hard to rethink your assumptions. You're gonna have to accept that gender is about as meaningful as elves.

>>8663022
>You're gonna have to accept that gender is about as meaningful as elves.

can the transgenders stop messing with us then? why do we have to accept an identity that is admittedly fake and made up? transgenders portray themselves as an oppressed minority struggling for acceptance, but theirs is a deliberate program to engineer society from above based on extremist social constructionist views. most people seem happy with being male and female, but the ideologists in our universities, the pharma industry and the left want to change that. I believe we are in danger of loosing many of the valuable things that make us human. Children are being educated from birth to become genderless neutered beings, and it is mostly masculitnity that draws the leftists' ire. I would prefer for society not to disintegrate into a clusterfuck of wheelchair bound polyamorous genderblobs, is that to much to ask?

>>8663022
>A concept has existed for the entirety of human history has no meaning

There's a good reason why people 50, 100, etc. years ago would have had no idea what the fuck you were talking about. Maybe it's because you're the one spouting nonsense?

>>8663036
Your identity is inherently fake and made up too retard.

I'm a meaningless sack of flesh and I can shape my meaningless flesh however I damn well please no matter how much it triggers you. Nature is not an authority, or chopping down trees would be a sin, sex is not an authority, or I would not be able to alter myself. No longer will you force educate children from birth to fit a bdsm sexual fetish mold called gender.

>>8663043
>entirety of human history
>different depending on
>region
>time
>subjective beliefs
Yeah, it's so real that everyone has their own different image of it. Like all real things it's entirely in your head.

>>8663045
Ah, so you're a nihilist and moral relativist. Good to know that I'm talking to a 14 year old

>hurr durr everything is meaningless lol what's duty or natural law

>>8663051
There are cultural variations of what's considered appropriate for a particular gender role but that doesn't mean the concept is meaningless

>>8663055
>muh nature tells me what to do
Okay senpai, I'm breaking your "natural law", what now? Do the nature police get me? No. Is it impossible for me to do this? No. All that happens is your feelings get hurt, and your spiritual delusions get challenged. This "natural law" sure just seems like your subjective feelings.

If you have a dick, you're a man. If you have a vagina, you're a woman. If you have both of these things, then you're a hermaphrodite.

There, simple as. The only reason why hermaphrodites don't have clearly "set" gender roles is because of how uncommon they are.

Anyone who claims to be "non-binary" who is not biologically a hermaphrodite is either an attention seeker or deluded.

/thread

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>>8663045
hey last time I checked it wasn't straight people indoctrinating children with bdsm sexual fetishes. you people want to subvert the education of our children, instead of mom and dad it's mandatory sex ed at school, keeping sure the children stay politically correct and don't embrace those evil traditional gender roles. But what solution do you offer? atomised individualism and hedonist degeneracy. everything else, family, tradition, is an evil social construct getting in the way of sexually liberated marxist utopia.

>>8663062
t. riggered

>>8663061
You know that we're talking about the building blocks of civilisation, here?

Society needs certain set ideas on what behaviour is and isn't acceptable in order for it to function. Under your individualistic system then what's to stop people from raping people and smearing shit everywhere?

>>8663065
Not an argument

>>8663063
>hey last time I checked it wasn't straight people indoctrinating children with bdsm sexual fetishes
lmao literally the entire concept of gender you overgrown child.
Remember those pedophile christian beauty contests in america?

>mandatory sex ed
oh no, people are learning what their bodies do, now how else will they accidentally get pregnant and then try to abort it with a clothes hanger? What ever will we do without all those accidental teen births and abortions prevented by proper sexual education. oh no how awful.

>>8663072
>lmao literally the entire concept of gender you overgrown child.

Because the idea of human behaviour corresponding to one's biology is apparently absurd

If gender roles are unnatural, then how did they come into existence and become ubiquitous in the first place?

>>8663069
>Under your individualistic system then what's to stop people from raping people and smearing shit everywhere?
Guns you fucking retard?
Know what doesn't stop that? Mythical gender roles that make your subjective feelings feel good.

>>8663082
>invent makeup
>decide this is for women
>BIOLOGY
Nobody will deny sex but you're a funny guy.

>>8663063
Last time I checked little boys were receiving sex ed from priests

>>8663072
>Remember those pedophile christian beauty contests in america?

remember this little boy? yeah nevermind, beacuse muh queers, this blatant display of child abuse is OMG so diverse and progressive, and we are supposed to think it's all heartwarming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3adatEVSL9M

>>8663083
So the society your mindset would produce would be Mad Max. Bravo.

Are you an atheist, by any chance? The fucking reason why we even exist is the foundation for right and wrong, you total mouthbreather

>>8663089
>making excuses for child abuse
Christians

>>8663090
Guns prevent crime in this society you fucking moron. Do you think the police use hugs and kisses? How sheltered are you types?

>>8663086
If makeup wasn't attractive on women, then guess what? We wouldn't find it attractive on women. Shocking, I know, but true!

>>8663095
>things I like are biology

>>8663094
>Do you think the police use hugs and kisses?

I live in the UK, a civilised nation where the regular police are unarmed. Try again.

Typical fucking yank

>>8663097
>the overwhelming consensus of society is wrong

In the same way that something is visible only if people can actually see it, something is desirable only if people actually desire it (which is the case for makeup on women).

>>8663069
>Under your individualistic system then what's to stop people from raping people and smearing shit everywhere?
A good guy with a penis/bucket of retaliatory shit? Antisocial behaviors don't need to be accepted just because laws were dissolved. If somebody raped my friend I'd beat them fucking senseless regardless of whether the local chamber of commerce had signed into law bill charter 2o6B that illegalizes rape in the county of Franklin

>>8663100
>I live in the UK
Yeah and your cops are doing just wonderfully.
By the way, they do still use guns in certain circumstances.

>>8663102
>consensus is a fact based thing
Literally the argument that the Earth was flat you stupid fuck.

>>8663094
i'm not even a christian. I merely believe the left has gone to far and i wish to preserve my own values, rather than obey the lunatic, politically correct dictates of a 300 pounds genderblob with blue hair and problem glasses.

>>8663105
Great, if you think society having universal rules is a bad thing then you can go off to the Amazon and try out your rugged individualism. You'll be shitting your intestines out and starving while I'll be driving on a paved road. The former is what your mindset produces, the latter is what is produced by mine.

>>8663110
Your own values are just that. Your own. Preserve them inside your own shitty head, stop trying to force society into your obsolete sex fantasy.

>>8663112
>my right to tell people what to do built the roads
uh

>>8663107
you folks want social engineering. you want to impose your own arbitrary values on the rest of society starting since childhood. what if i think your values are stupid and made up. the rejection of 'social constructs' is itself a social construct. What if i want to keep my identity, get married and educate my own children? but no preschoolers need to be taught to 'experiment with their gender' and whatnot.

>>8663107
>Yeah and your cops are doing just wonderfully.

They are, actually. Black people aren't shot on sight, for one thing. If you don't think your country has an epidemic of police brutality then you're even more oblivious to basic reality than I thought.

>Literally the argument that the Earth was flat you stupid fuck.

As we all know, the nature of the Earth is totally comparable to human desire and emotion

>>8663112
I can do that here with the paved roads just as easily. And let's not forget that there are very good reasons why there are paved roads here and not in the amazon and they don't have a lot to do with the good graces of the government.

>>8663119
>stop trying to force society into your obsolete sex fantasy.
>projecting this hard

The lgbt community has always been a minority, but now they are trying to impose their politically correct fringe views on the whole of society. there is talk about abolishing the family, the gender binary, and heteronormativity. isn't that quite like the nazis talked about 'abolishing' jews?

>>8663119
I take the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach". Gender roles have served us excellently, why replace them based on the whims of fat blue-haired soap-dodgers?

You only really reject these values because you want to be contrarian, anyway. You're rebelling by being an atheist and moral relativist, ideologies which tell you that it's okay for you to just do whatever you like and that you don't have to care about tradition or hierarchy.

>>8663121
Gender is social engineering. I want to destroy your weird obsessive sabotage of the early development of children to force them into a falsely constructed set of behaviours.
Keep your identity, do not force it upon people, your whole deal is forcing people to do things and my whole deal is telling you that's just not going to happen, society is moving on past that sort of sexual authority where the feelings of men dictate the bodies of all people.

>>8663122
>As we all know, the nature of the Earth is totally comparable to human desire and emotion
The point went over your head here.
You said you were right because it was consensus.
Consensus is meaningless.

>>8663120
Because society having cultural traditions and social norms is the same as one guy (me in this instance) just bossing everyone else around

I'm actually amazed at how thick you are at this point

>>8663133
They've served you excellently. People wouldn't be breaking them if they liked being slaves to them dumby.

>>8663131
>if I can't force you to act how I want you to act you're genociding me
Really?

>>8663137
>everyone has to act in the ways I deem natural
>but it has nothing to do with me at all
>I'm just the messenger

>>8663135
>I want to destroy your weird obsessive sabotage of the early development of children to force them into a falsely constructed set of behaviours.

>The next day Elliott asked for magazines to make a collage about things people should know more about, adding glitter and photos of Beyonce and trans actress Laverne Cox next to words like bodies, consent, racism, gender, and decolonization -- which they asked for help writing.

projecting much? this is exactly what liberals are doing with their 'gender neutral' schools, ok one kid in a thousand might be a tranny but why mess with the rest?

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2017/02/06/gender-nonconforming-kid-elliott-educate-pop-up-school.html

>>8663144
>if other people do it then it's okay when I do
Stop trying to justify your own child abuse just because other people abuse children too. Pathetic gender cultists.

>>8663143
Are you trying to insinuate that I think I'm God?

Ever notice how the only places that endorse all this weird genderfluid shit are majority atheist?

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>>8663131
family structures have always evolved with their surroundings
the gender binary is a modified gender binary with space between male and female
not everybody is hetero, was hetero or will be hetero
no not really, how did you even arrive at that claim?

what is with you and pretending we live in leave it to beaver

>>8663149
More like you think you know what god wants.

>>8663145
>raising a boy like a boy is child abuse

>>8663153
Read the catechesis to begin, then move on to Saint Thomas Aquinas.

>>8663149
Religious groups that date back to ancient times have accepted and even venerated stuff that you would cry at because it's 'genderfluid shit'

take your complaints to the galli of rome and see if they thought what they were doing was incompatible with religion

I'm conservative. It's a mental disorder, but I support our only medical answer to alleviate this: granting them the means to change their bodies to a state that will give them peace of mind.

We haven't found the right cocktail of drugs to treat it yet, but I don't think anyone should suffer with any condition, so I'm supportive of the mental wellness transition provides.

>>8663161
>catholicfag
>aka "we know the truth of everything in the world you just have to listen to us you sheep"fag

>>8663162
Because I'm evidently going to regard what pagans think with the same level of respect of the teachings of the Bible, aren't I?

But hey, if you want our society to have the same moral standards as one which collapsed over 1500 years ago and had no problem with child sex slaves then that's your choice

>>8663138
You want to force people to act your way instead, but suddenly it doesn't count because you are hiding behind victim hood and political correctness

>>8663168
thank you. 90% of the anti trans peeps on this board willingly wish suffering upon us.

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>>8663172
It's a good thing the Catholic church has done a great job of keeping it's child sex slaves well provided for then lmao

>>8663171
But I'm sure you'd have a hard time getting yourself to disagree with anything that Bill Nye or Neil Degrasse Tyson has shat out

>>8663155
>arbitrarily and randomly decide what a boy should act like
>raise him how you feel he should act
>brainwash him
>call it nature
>If he acts in a way you don't like, call him unnatural
Yeah it's child abuse.

>>8663175
I want to not force anyone. The fact you see letting people do what they want without interference as "force" just because it's going against what you want sort of speaks volumes.

>>8663178
Pedophile priests are a disgrace to the catholic church and are rightfully reviled by society at large. Pedophilia, on the other hand, was something that was ingrained as being socially acceptable in Rome.

And you know that these Romans that you have so much regard for the beliefs of ditched them in favour of Christianity? You're praising a society which abandoned your ideology in favour of mine. Lol

>>8663179
nah, anon. Bill Nye's latest show is a travesty and Neil "Fedora" DeGrasse Tyson should stick to astrophysics and keep the rest of his opinions to himself

>>8663184
Boys like "action" things like toy guns and action figures because of heightened levels of testosterone lending itself to aggression and physical activity.

Girls tend to like baby dolls because heightened levels of estrogen result in heightened levels of empathy and a sense for nurturing

>>8663193
Think about what you just said.

>>8663198
Please explain to me how I'm wrong.

>>8663022
Elves are real you little shit

>>8663187
I'm not a gallus. You're framing history like some kind of contest between omnipresent nontemporal cabals, people didn't en masse come together in Rome to adopt Christianity. It was slowly introduced into society and lodged itself in established power structures and cultural niches by absorbing pagan rituals, icons and societies

do you know where the halo comes dude?
You smell like Peterson btw, am I right or jumping the gun on that?

>>8663193
cool, so if natural variations in hormones and neurology (you can't forget neurological sexual differences) exist then there should absolutely 0 problems with recognizing the realities of a modified gender binary and letting your child pick for themselves what toys they want to play with and how

you need to think about what these studies your reading actually mean rather than just taking them as "silver bullets" to throw at certain phrases

>>8663199
Girls can like guns. Boys liking guns is due to how they're raised by their parents and raised by society. Girls liking guns is due to how they're raised by their parents.
Action figures are dolls, the difference is literally just marketing towards either made up category. Buy this doll if you're a boy, buy this doll if you're a girl. You can tell which you should buy by the aisles in the stores.
Shit's a product of people like you just assuming it's true and then calling everyone who deviates unnatural.

>>8663184
99.9% of the time that boy will be happy growing up as a boy. The other 0.1% is rare neurological abnormalities, nothing wrong with that, but why place the burden of identity on the 99% of children who aren't trans?

ITT: Fedora-tippers and crypto-redditors try (and fail) to justify their shit tier belief system

>>8663210
Not forcing them to adopt gender roles isn't "placing a burden of identity" on anyone. In fact, even cis people are imprisoned by these gender roles you force on children because it makes you feel good.

>>8663207
Why can't kids just have toy preferences? Everything has to be politicised and turned into a dumb 'gender' thing. What if those are actually your preferences and not a product of indoctrination by evil society? You can't deny there are neurological variations between genders and that there are 2 main sex neurological configuration. I was a somewhat weird feminine boy growing up but I wouldn't want to get transed.

>>8663208
If you live an average young girl in a room filled with toys and with no adult authority figures present, then she will most likely pick up the doll. Similarly, the boys will most likely pick up the toy gun.

And even if your assertion were true that young children don't generally play with the toys that correspond to their gender of their own accord (something which, in my experience at least, is patently absurd), and that gender roles are something which can only be enforced by parents, then you still haven't explained why that's a bad thing. If society generally views certain things as being appropriate for different genders, then how is this a problem? You know that the beliefs and wants of a society are dictated by the people who live within them, right?

And furthermore, if I want to raise my kid along traditional gender roles, then who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me I can't?

>>8663215
what are you raising children for then? to express their 'individuality' as consumers in a market? to have more women in stem despite their actual inclinations? you don't actually want to liberate people, but to impose on them your own model of humanity.

>>8663229
Fuck off /leftypol/ I'm an egoist and your board only pretends to read but really you just have the tripfags do it for you.

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>>8663220
They can, let your kid play with whatever they want. That's what I'm saying. A girl playing GI joe and a boy playing house isn't a political statement it's kids playing.

I'm not denying neurological differences, I brought them up remember? Right now evidence is heavily suggesting it's those differences that cause transgender stuff to occur

That's fine? Nobody wants to "trans" (what does this mean? Im basically just guessing cause it doesnt seem to have real meaning) every feminine boy. This isn't Saudi Arabia. Do what you want but don't stop people from getting treatment for their medical problems or expressing their personalities.

>>8663017
Daily reminder that distinguishing between "genders" and "sexes" is a psuedoscientific concept which originates from a child abuser named John Money

>>8663246
TIL Simone de Beauvoir was named John Money
also, if anything, Money's twisted "experiment" implies gender is somewhat innate

>>8663266
listen here ya leftist loony, put your feels aside and recognize that Simone jumped off the deep end like all you SJW trannycucks and transitioned to John Money so heshe could rape again and destroy society????

god bless

>>8663266
>Simone de Beauvoir

Because she's evidently so much better.

>existentialism

Yuck

In the same way that darkness is merely an absence of light, liberalism is merely an absence of common sense

>>8663305
Peterson, you're a total Peterson fan right? I think I gotcha there. I'll leave that alone if you like.

Why don't you just explain in your own words what you think existentialism is, why it's bad and how this intersects with the gender sex distinction.

You can be brief dude, I just want to see what you really think about this.

>>8663312
Existentialism is the belief that life is essentially meaningless. As such, to the existentialist there is no real sense of duty to others, unless they choose to acknowledge it. Existentialism is also closely tied to the belief that there is no higher power who gives meaning to human beings. Existentialism is also tied into moral relativism because of this.

Existentialism is bad because it leads to societies full of people who don't give a fuck about improving it. Society 60 years ago was much more cohesive than it is today. There were certain standards which people felt they should hold themselves to. The fact that people now think that anything goes "as long as it hurts no one else" means that there's been a huge increase in single parent households (for example). TV shows like "Love Island" and "Naked Attraction" highlight this attitude that base pleasures are the most important parts of life.

Existentialism is tied into gender roles because gender roles are, overall, a good thing for society. "Nuclear families" are generally the happiest. The father has a sense of duty to provide for his family, while the mother has a sense of duty to look after the children. Each person has their own defined role to play. Now that this is no longer seen as being desirable, people feel more directionless than ever. Children have suffered from the significantly reduced presence of a mother figure. The mother suffers as she's likely less happy as a wage earner than she would be at home. The father suffers as his own role has been marginalised.

Living standards have been affected by this, too - now that the workforce has doubled from the inclusion of women, the workpool has increased significantly. This is a bad thing as it means that the value of the labour of an average worker is reduced. As such, we now have much lower incomes than we did before the sexual revolution.

Sorry if there are spelling/grammar errors in this post, I had a bad headache while writing it

>>8663359
I'll pick this apart tomorrow if that's cool, you were nice enough to write out your thoughts so I'll return the favor by not responding at 2am.

>>8663379
Fair enough, I need to get some sleep anyway

>>8663359
Existentialism does include the belief that morals are subjective, sure. But this is less a justification for cruelty and more a study of the natural world. Moral aren't tangible or universal. Each individual left to their own devices behaves on their terms; even when you subscribe to some kind of moral framework you are essentially CHOOSING to believe in it. Choice and morals go hand in hand here, you choose to be a good over an evil. This isn't a suggestion, it's human nature.

You can totally acknowledge a lack of concrete moral laws and still see want to improve society. Many prominent agents of social and technological improvement have at least been influenced by existentialist thought. 60 years ago society was lobotomizing housewives, lynching people with dark skin and decimating the environment for short term profits. For the most part tv shows of the past were more """wholesome""" because of stringent censorship that's been slowly stripped away. I don't watch tv but those shows look the same as any other made-for-profit reality show. The participants enjoying the human body is the least offensive part.

The nuclear family is a modern family structure in the west. It's not the original family structure and there is no reason to suppose it's the best. Now single parent households we do have evidence of being nasty for a developing child but the idea that they came into prominence because of existentialism is silly.

Are you sure that the increased prosperity of the first world didn't help create single parent homes? What about how profitable all this is for capitalists? What about things like the crack epidemic? Or poor healthcare? What about about poverty creating abusive personalities that must be avoided? There's loads of variables none of which exist in a vacuum. You need to see every angle if you want the truth.

I have another post coming, sorry for rambling and my own syntax mistakes.

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>>8663359
>>8664993

Your view on gender roles is also based in misunderstanding. Gender roles change with setting. Time and place. When talking about these roles, which setting are you suggesting got it right and why? Was it the feudal European father inducted into communal serfdom? Was it the neolithic man who hunted to supplement the women's gathering? Was it the Hoplite frotting with his comrades? Wodaabe men, do their displays of beauty constitute an invalid gender role?

These preconceived and immaterial roles your suggesting as a golden rule are lacking a universal biological reality. I bring up biology because I believe it's the surest barometer of morality; survival tool you know? Not every male is predisposed to your idea of the father. The same goes for females. It also applies to children. Where do intersex people slot into these western roles?

Let's now suppose that a majority of people are predisposed to certain gendered behavior; and this is something I totally agree with on a biological basis. What do we do with the remainder? It's not like gender nonconforming people don't contribute to society. Is their labor somehow tainted by their expressions? From a pragmatic sense you shouldn't stigmatize them since deviancy is a driving force of social improvement. Even Peterson (not to harp on him) would agree with me on that. From a less pragmatic and more moralistic stance, is it truly acceptable for one individual to force another to behave in accordance with their tastes? Outside of dangerous actions

I can't find a source for your claim about women and wages. For the most part though the degradation in global living standards outside the 1st world has more to do with capitalism than feminism. Changying assembling your iphones over a conveyor belt didn't get there because women got the vote and re-entered the workforce en masse in recent years.

I hope that gets you to reconsider some of your beliefs.

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>>8662831
>conservatives hate traps
not real ones.. real ones protect freedom

>>8665056
kek

>>8663036
>can the transgenders stop messing with us then?
We're not, and I don't know wtf the child you're arguing with is on about. Nothing about our identities are "made up" or "fake," there's ample evidence by now that it's all biologically driven. They're on some Marxist bullshit, and that's not "transgenders," that's liberal academia snorting coke.

>Children are being educated from birth to become genderless neutered beings
AS a trans person, I am strongly against this. I believe it's abusive. It's harmful to trans kids, but at least our parents were not malicious and had a 99.7% chance of being correct. Doing this deliberately to kids who are likely to be cis is all kinds of wrong.

>>8663062
>If you have a dick, you're a man. If you have a vagina, you're a woman. If you have both of these things, then you're a hermaphrodite.

So apparently the "conservative" answer to the question for you is, "This question is far too complicated for me to even grasp, let alone answer. Here, have a black-and-white answer that doesn't remotely address the issue."

wew lad

Would help if you could STOP giving elementary, poorly-thought-out answers to complex questions. I'm tired of people thinking I'm probably low-IQ because I'm right-wing, but shit like this is why.

A large part of WHY this question is relevant is the fact that two different intersex people with the same condition might not have the same gender identity. Either you have to come up with a justification to force one of them to switch, or you have to justify why intersex people can declare their own gender and trans people can't.

And a lot of intersex people are infertile, and some have ambiguous genitals. So no, you can't use silly ultimatums like "whether you have a dick" or "whether you can have a baby."

>>8663168
A+

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>>8663246
Daily reminder that you're incredibly stupid.

>>8668050
>>Children are being educated from birth to become genderless neutered beings
>AS a trans person, I am strongly against this. I believe it's abusive. It's harmful to trans kids, but at least our parents were not malicious and had a 99.7% chance of being correct. Doing this deliberately to kids who are likely to be cis is all kinds of wrong.
What are the "correct" ways boys and girls should be treated differently that are so harmful if abandoned?

>>8668052
>thinks Reimer was a scientifically valid example
>says others are incredibly stupid