Identifying as trans vs. paying for it

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>>8636224
Thanks for activating this board almonds with your constant spam.

>>8636242
you realize that more than one person has saved this pic of this completely normal trans-woman.

>>8636224
If it is purely cosmetic, the military shouldn't pay for it. However, a lot of transgender medical treatments are not purely cosmetic - and the issue going on lately is not just that the military is unwilling to pay for SRS (never mind that SRS isn't the only form of transgender medical treatment), but flat out forbidding transgender people from serving in the military.

>>8636267
Except they all use the same filename too.

>>8636276
>However, a lot of transgender medical treatments are not purely cosmetic
Name one. Having a penis and no tits doesn't cause illness or harm.

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>>8636283
and they haven't posted here either, so what's your point? Can't stand the reality of being trans?

>>8636294
>Guy has such a shitty life he thinks he will troll a bunch of man in drag by posting hon pics in his crusade to defeat degeneracy from his mother's basement.

You niggers are literally revitalizing this board, we never had so many threads posted per hour in years.

>>8636315
You're welcome, hon. Better get that mayo jar out to save up for those cosmetic surgeries.

>>8636287
Gender dysphoria is a medical condition which most experts agree requires treatment.

>>8636294
The image has the same filename in this thread too.

>>8636224
"the government" doesn't pay for anything.

Other people pay for it, their money taken by the government.

Why should a non-op have to subsidize your surgery?

>>8636224
>Why would you expect the military to pay for any of it?

They already pay for tuition. Why complain about trannies getting free medical care when they're a fraction of the population? Far more tax dollars are going toward paying for incentive packages for young men who are brought in by recruiters.

Now, if millions of trannies were signing up for the military in droves, cost might be a legitimate issue. But that's not really going to happen.

>>8636336
Because everyone benefits.

>>8636329
sorry I didn't know people were only allowed to use 4chan once in a lifetime.

also, is everyone required to agree with you sweetie?

>>8636340
>They already pay for tuition.
Educating your population has a net gain for society.

Cosmetic transition surgery doesn't. Why shouldn't anyone but you pay for your expensive dress up?

I've got to be honest, calling trans surgery "medically necessary" has got to be the most laughable con job I've ever heard of. How did you all manage to pull it off?

>>8636373
So you admit that it's one person behind all this spamming?

>>8636385
>the medical treatment of gender dysphoria consists EXCLUSIVELY of "cosmetic transition surgery"

>>8636386
spamming where? Who's spamming?

You're a tranny troll and I guess I can assume you're every tranny poster. Why don't you fuck off then?

News flash: more than one person disagrees with you.

>>8636390
Then what else is it? name a procedure that's "medically necessary" by any definition.

>>8636393
>You're a tranny troll and I guess I can assume you're every tranny poster. Why don't you fuck off then?
I'm cis.

>>8636399
HRT.

>>8636366
[citation needed]

>>8636393
seek help you sad bitter cunt.

>>8636385
>Educating your population has a net gain for society.

Sure, but you're missing the point. Incentive packages are going to cost a lot more than tranny medical care. I don't frankly give a shit if my tax dollars go toward someone's SRS. It's not going to put a dent in the military's already oversized budget, which Trump has by the way recently expanded.

>>8636402
hrt isn't "medically necessary". It cures no physical ailment because being male isn't an illness.

>>8636404
No one is immune to disease. It's in everyone's interest to not have to worry about being denied necessary medical care due to lack of money.

>>8636418
>what is gender dysphoria

>>8636417
>Incentive packages are going to cost a lot more than tranny medical care.
okay, nothing you stated justifies it being in the budget in any capacity.

>>8636423
>what is gender dysphoria
anti-depressants sound more like the appropriate treatment than hormones that gives you tits and softer skin.

hrt is cosmetic.

>>8636423
>It's in everyone's interest to not have to worry about being denied necessary medical care due to lack of money.
okay, but being trans isn't a disease anon. you shoudn't be so transphobic.

If someone wants cosmetic surgery and treatments, they need to pay for it.

Do you think the military should pay for laser hair removal and facial feminization surgery? Why not tummy tucks and butt implants too?

>>8636423
We're both trans, you decide on SRS, I have to pay for it.

This benefits me? Come again?

>>8636434
surprise surprise antidepressants don't do anything to ease dysphoria dumbass
you think all other treatments haven't been tried and tested already during the decades of trans research?

>>8636426
>okay, nothing you stated justifies it being in the budget in any capacity

The consensus of the medical community supports the diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria widely enough that I would think there is some benefit to HRT and SRS in alleviating those symptoms. So again, I don't care about my tax dollars being used to cover these expenses.

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>tfw anons got sick of spaming cuck threads on other boards and now will spam le god emperor btfo le trannies on this board.

t_d and the gamer gate faggotry really killed old /pol/.

>>8636449
>okay, but being trans isn't a disease anon.

The DSM-V regards gender dysphoria as a medical disorder. Do some research.

>>8636498
being trans =/= gender dysphoria
dysphoria is a symptom
for some it goes away completely after a successful transition

>>8636490
>surprise surprise antidepressants don't do anything to ease dysphoria dumbass
and hormones magically do? It's cosmetic.

I'm okay with an insurance company paying for it, but not as part of the military budget while pretending that it's "medically necessary". It isn't. You won't die from being your healthy biological sex and that is a fact.

>>8636492
>The consensus of the medical community supports the diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria widely enough that I would think there is some benefit to HRT and SRS in alleviating those symptoms.
yeah by treating it like a cash cow. I imagine many surgeons would like it if they could do cosmetic surgery paid for by the government. It's free money that they can push people into getting surgery for.

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>>8636512
>but not as part of the military budget
This go- I mean guy, is right.
All military budget should go for "top secret expenses" to fight against terrorism.

John Steinberg ~ CEO of Lockheed Martin.

>>8636511
>for some it goes away completely after a successful transition
lol, good one.

>>8636511
I think that's it's telling how trannies scream they aren't mentally ill, but call it a mental illness when it's convenient.

>>8636522
as opposed to cosmetic surgery for perverts?

You act like one wrong excuses another.

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>>8636535
Yes mr. useful idiot.

3 trannies getting SRS paid by their own health insurance because they fought for israel in the army is as bad as the entire military complex who starts wars and chaos all around the globe to make mr shekelberg richer.

Do you seriously think the military is made of 90% trannies or something? It's literlaly one or two middle aged men who served in it for years and decided to wear a dress because they went insane. That doesn't hurt the national budget at all.

>>8636569
>That doesn't hurt the national budget at all.
the point is, it shouldn't be part of the national budget in the first place. Not even $1.

Pay for your own cosmetic surgery.

>>8636569
Upper estimate from the RAND report commissioned by the DOD is 124 people, making up a grand total cost of 8.4 million

>>8636584
>8 million.
a single a-10 brrrrt will waste more than that in actual 4 seconds and the a-10 /k/ memes aside is an old flying piece of useless shit that can't fight a modern war.

>>8636577
Your dad became a tranny or something? There must be a reason you're so adamant about this entire thing my goy.

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>>8636569
>It's literlaly one or two middle aged men
mfw

you fashy freaks wanted trump, now you get to deal with the consequences

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>>8636577
>the point is, it shouldn't be part of the national budget in the first place.
>>8636590
>Your dad became a tranny or something?

>>8636590
>Your dad became a tranny or something? There must be a reason you're so adamant about this entire thing my goy.
So you call me a "goy" for supposedly not objecting to the bloated "defense" budget (and I do) but you want me to approve of fucking elective cosmetic tranny surgery as part of the defense budget?

Fuck right off.

>>8636590
Another good comparison is the amount of money the US money spends on erectile dysfunction, which is around 80 million

they spend 10x more money getting dicks hard than it would cost to let people transition

>>8636426
>>8636434
>>8636449
what other option is approved for use in gender dysphoric patients by the fda?
>>8636577
>cosmetic surgery.
>>8636603
>elective cosmetic
so, cosmetic would imply that there was not a statistically significant change in QoL.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440516/

>>8636649
>so, cosmetic would imply that there was not a statistically significant change in QoL.
who ever claimed that cosmetic surgery doesn't improve quality of life? Most cosmetic surgery probably does improve quality of life. You think, for some reason, that trans people are somehow special and should have surgery that other people are exempt for.

Nose jobs, penis enlargement surgery and labiaplasty is all elective cosmetic surgery. Somehow you think trans people are better than everyone else.

No one is obligated to pay for your shit.

>>8636664
Those aren't used to treat a medical condition, whereas GRS is

>>8636714
>Those aren't used to treat a medical condition, whereas GRS is
depression and anxiety aren't medical conditions?

>>8636664
for a cosmetic surgery the p values would be fucked. the test does not ask about body image.
incase, you are too special to read the methodology, results and study here:
>the sf-36 asks about mental health, vitality, social functioning, role emotional, and general health
>p < 0.0001 after grs
>increased p-value in later years can be attributed to a large decline in responses due to many reasons. (moving, not sending them your new address)
>even with the lower quality data, the stats were never lower than the initial assessment
>>8636732
pls give the study you are citing

>>8636664
>labiaplasty
actually this is covered in cases where there is severe pain in some cases of labial hypertrophy.
you shouldn't speak on a subject you know very little about

>>8636803
>actually this is covered in cases where there is severe pain in some cases of labial hypertrophy.
I was speaking of cosmetic, not to treat an actual medical problem.

You shouldn't be so obtuse and absolutist.

>>8636820
so, why is the accepted treatment proven by a study, followed by a review of past studies of the same procedure not count as medically necessary?

>>8636664
rhinoplasty satisfaction in women with bdd is very far from the average population
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3324957/
rhinoplasty and penis enlargement are just as effective for men with bdd.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121529/

>>8636890
because it's cosmetic. you act like anything you're saying is going to make that part go away. no.

>>8636926
then why does anyone get cosmetic surgery if not for bbd?

there is no gatekeeper except for affordability with cosmetic surgery.

>>8636434
>anti-depressants sound more like the appropriate treatment than hormones that gives you tits and softer skin.
That doesn't actually work though.

>>8636449
>okay, but being trans isn't a disease anon. you shoudn't be so transphobic.
Being trans isn't a disease, but having gender dysphoria is a medical condition that requires treatment.

>Do you think the military should pay for laser hair removal and facial feminization surgery? Why not tummy tucks and butt implants too?
It depends on whether a qualified medical professional considers them to be necessary to treat a medical condition.

>>8636482
It benefits you because the medical treatment you need (even if you choose not to get SRS) is available to you even if you can't afford it.

>>8636512
>and hormones magically do? It's cosmetic.
You're free to believe it's cosmetic all you want, but the simple fact is that HRT provides far more actual effectiveness in treating gender dysphoria than anti-depressants do. So if you're willing to pay for others' antidepressants, you should be willing to pay for others' HRT too.

>>8636512
>but not as part of the military budget while pretending that it's "medically necessary". It isn't. You won't die from being your healthy biological sex and that is a fact.
For something to be medically neccessary doesn't require that you would actually die otherwise. It's in the interest of the military and society as a whole to keep people in decent health, rather than pretending it's perfectly fine that people are suffering from debilitating illnesses as long as they aren't actually dead.

>>8636516
Literally none of your "muh cosmetic cash cow" nonsense matters until someone comes up with something that's actually more effective in treating gender dysphoria.

>>8636603
Literally the only reason to make such a big deal about is if you have some sort of emotional issue with trannies. 8 million is NOTHING in terms of the military budget.

>>8636664
No, we think everyone deserves a baseline level of health. For regular cis people, cosmetic surgery only serves to push them ABOVE that, it's a luxury, therefore shouldn't be covered. Whereas trans people, "by default" are below that line, because dysphoria is a medical condition. So "cosmetic surgery", if it's what's needed to get them up to a basic level of overall health, is a medical neccessity, not a luxury.

>>8636224
No and no.

Pay for your own shit.

>>8636941
>So if you're willing to pay for others' antidepressants, you should be willing to pay for others' HRT too.
no, one is cosmetic. anti-depressants don't change your appearance.

>>8636930
You keep saying "cosmetic" like it's some magic word that will compel us to agree with you. It's not. You could say it a million times and it would do nothing to change the fact that in the context of the treatment of gender dysphoria, HRT is medically neccessary in order to treat that condition.

>>8636953
>No, we think everyone deserves a baseline level of health. For regular cis people, cosmetic surgery only serves to push them ABOVE that, it's a luxury,
you being the biological sex you were born with is at a baseline level of health. You just don't like that. It's a choice. It's cosmetic.

>>8636962
The change of appearance is only incidental in this case. It's basically a side effect. The actual medical value lies elsewhere. Are you saying that if there was a drug that could cure cancer, but as a side effect also made them incredibly beautiful, it would never be medically neccessary?

>>8636963
>You keep saying "cosmetic" like it's some magic word that will compel us to agree with you. It's not. You could say it a million times and it would do nothing to change the fact that in the context of the treatment of gender dysphoria, HRT is medically neccessary in order to treat that condition.
like trannies changing the definition of "medically necessary"?

>>8636930
it's not only cosmetic
it also has mental effects (that antidepressants don't give) that are arguably more important
why do you think you're the first one to think of this?

>>8636969
Dysphoria isn't a choice. And it is detrimental to one's health if not treated. Your feelings don't change that.

>>8636971
>The change of appearance is only incidental in this case. It's basically a side effect. The actual medical value lies elsewhere.
lol, then why not give transpeople placebo sugar pills and them them it's hormones? Sounds safer anyway.

>>8636972
So you think dysphoria is not a debilitating medical condition? Or you think treating medical conditions is unneccessary when you personally find it uncomfortable?

>>8636971
>Are you saying that if there was a drug that could cure cancer, but as a side effect also made them incredibly beautiful, it would never be medically neccessary?
>be being a tranny is like someone having cancer
yuck, you're an awful person.

>>8636978
Because sugar pills don't provide the beneficial effects of HRT.

>>8636985
Having dysphoria is like cancer, yes. Treating dysphoria doesn't make one not trans, but it does prevent or reduce the suffering that occurs as a result of dysphoria.

>>8636985
It wasn't a comparison between being trans and having cancer per se, it was saying that both are cases where medical treatment is needed

If you don't like the cancer thing, feel free to choose another medical issue

>>8636977
>And it is detrimental to one's health if not treated.
like depression? lol, here we go again.
>>8636975
If you want the surgery, you pay for it with your own money.

why do trannies do this circular argument shit?

>>8636983
>So you think dysphoria is not a debilitating medical condition?
of course it's not. Why would you think it is? It's just important to you, it doesn't mean it's harmful or debilitating. You're healthy, just unhappy. No one is under financial obligation, including the government, to pay for your happiness especially since it's so insanely expensive.

>hey people here's my idea on how to treat transpeople that's based on my personal opinions and gut feelings
>why aren't you taking me seriously?

>>8636989
>Because sugar pills don't provide the beneficial effects of HRT.
cosmetic and beneficial are very different words.
>>8637000
>If you don't like the cancer thing, feel free to choose another medical issue
no, this is your baseless argument. you fix it.

>>8637006
>hey people, why don't you pay for my cosmetic surgery?
no.

>>8636941
>It benefits you because the medical treatment you need (even if you choose not to get SRS) is available to you even if you can't afford it.
It's not, because I'm in the military, but even if I was, how about you pay for your own and if I decide to get it later I worry about that then?

>>8636996
I've lost a mother from cancer and you need to shut the fuck up, trans and cancer are nothing alike

>>8637000
>like depression? lol, here we go again.
So you're saying depression isn't a real disorder?

>of course it's not. Why would you think it is? It's just important to you, it doesn't mean it's harmful or debilitating. You're healthy, just unhappy. No one is under financial obligation, including the government, to pay for your happiness especially since it's so insanely expensive.
Are you the same douchecanoe from 2 years ago who insisted that mental illness wasn't real and could be cured just by having enough willpower?

>cosmetic and beneficial are very different words.
Because the "cosmetic" and "beneficial" parts are SEPARATE ASPECTS OF THE EFFECTS HRT. There currently isn't any known way to get the beneficial part without also getting the cosmetic part. I'm trying to be the better person here, but seriously, at least make an attempt to discuss this in good faith or GTFO.

>>8637038
>Anon mother died instead of him.
What an unfair world.

>>8637019
It's not for cosmetic purposes though. Your decision to intentionally ignore facts does not make them false.

>>8637030
Because people shouldn't be denied necessary medical care due to an inability to pay.

>>8637056
>necessary medical care
We've just been talking about how SRS is a choice...

>>8637067
You've been talking to yourself about that. The rest of us have been explaining that there's more to trans medical care than SRS, and some of it IS medically necessary.

>>8637056
>people shouldn't be denied necessary medical care due to an inability to pay
you're welcome to move to cuba or scandinavia

>>8637106
The fact that justice exists in some parts of the world does not mean that it is wrong to complain about injustice elsewhere.

>>8637083
Oh ok, I have to pay for your HRT but not your SRS.

>>8636434
you cant take antidepressants and be in the military, especially since often it requires lifting things, driving vehicles, being able to carry a gun

psych meds bar you from carrying a gun. if youre taking antipsychotics or antidepressants in the military youre already being kicked out on a psych profile.

retard. not only do you not understand the military, antidepressants dont improve GID, so fuck off leave you fucking coward civvie /pol/ shitposter shill

>>8636224
>Gov't spends hundreds of billions on a plane that can barely even fly
>We can't have them funding healthcare though, that would be crazy

>>8636224
Because all medical needs should be paid by the government.

Throw away less mont on private banks interest on fake money, and spend it on building society instead.

Did OP get banned? Apparently he's posted this thread a million times already.

Breaking the rules that many times must be a permanent global ban.

Make sure you report Hm.

>>8637039
>So you're saying depression isn't a real disorder?
circular tranny arguments

>>8637039
>Are you the same douchecanoe from 2 years ago who insisted that mental illness wasn't real and could be cured just by having enough willpower?
yeah, there is only one person on the internet that disagrees with every tranny talking point and they are out to get you.

seriously, the fuck is wrong with you?

>>8637083
>The rest of us have been explaining that there's more to trans medical care than SRS, and some of it IS medically necessary.
none of it is necessary. it's all elective. All of it.
There is not one trans person on Earth that absolutely MUST transition. None.

>>8637211
>you cant take antidepressants and be in the military
lol but being trans, with a diagnosed history of mental illness and on hormones is okay for serving in the military? and I'm a retard?

>>8637227
trans elective cosmetic surgery and hormones isn't "healthcare".