ANTI LGBT person who has repressed homo / trans thoughts AMA

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>>8609199
>>8609199
Presumably, anybody who ever is upset at someone not liking them / treatiing them worse for being LGBT.

Or at least, they WOULD care if they had sanity in them : its stupid to say you care about how people treat you, but then do absolutely nothing to fix it

In short, if you ever dislike being yelled at, attacked, shunned, mocked, ect, it would AT LEAST serve you well to know WHY it occurs.

....Course, half of you SEEM to completely miss the logical connection of cause / effect, and want the entire world to change for you : which unfortunately, DOES end up creating REAL hate.

And that last part is the most important : if you want to remove hatred, stop trying to dominate other people to accept you : if you allow someone to shun you, thats pretty much the end of it

Force them to tolerate, or worse, ACCEPT you, and this is what causes people to want to murder you.

I don't support such things, but this is the way humanity works with any group : a convincing argument always breeds more true support for something than an iron fist. And you cannot ASSUME why people hate you without evidence.

>>8609190
Why are you anti-LGBT?

What laws and views does anti-LGBT actually mean?

What are your repressed homo/trans thoughts?

>>8609243
I am anti LGBT because I think its bad for society, family, mental health, physical health, and is a massive waste of resources

I suppose if I had to rank my risks to society per person in terms of risk levels, it would be transgenderism, homosexualism, and lesbianism, with bisexuals being...more complex

Trans is top for obvious reason : its a decline into insanity for most, and flat out denial of reality : as much as I dislike gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, they at least acknowlege reality, even if they aren't concerned by it

homosexual men are the next worst, primarily due to the aids risk, fecal matter risk, and other huge medical issues, as well as being a cause for male on male rape. I don't believe the idea of "prison gay" being just deprived, I know some people who even with the most blue balls WOULD NOT mess with a dude

Lesbianism is next, its bad as it takes women away from men, and typically makes them extremely hostile to men. Fortunately I feel lesbianism would naturally die out if feminism also died out : no woman will be lesbian if she indeed needs a provider which only a man could be. But that's a pipe dream.

Bisexual is very wide so I'll elaborate

For people whom are "bisexual" opportunistically, like men or women being with the same sex when they are offered a chance, they are very low risk

For bisexuals who seek to seek out straight members of the same sex, this is very harmful

...actually I suppose that applies to gays and lesbians too, I don't so much care as long as you keep away from straight or """"undecided""" people.

>>8609190
You can't argue with them man.
These guys will just circlejerk about how you are gay and how wrong that is and how they are happy and don't care despite having 300 depression and suppression threads.
They will kill themselves.
They don't care.
You care too much.
Its just sad, my redpilled friend

>>8609243
Laws for it im minimalistc on as I view a culture which self regulates as more efficient than laws themselves.

Only laws I would have are keep LGBT stuff away from kids who have extremely impressionable, vulnerable minds. So similar to russias laws, with maybe a little less public beatings

But if you want to have a homosexual act, I think you should be granted amnesty from law as long as its in private, but absolutely EVERYONE should be allowed to shame you / protest your actions.

I feel this is better than jail, as jail would do more damage potentially : the point is to prevent homosexual acts, and however this can be done with minimal harm is the best method.


My repressed thoughts are thoughts on having sex with a guy, being feminine, being trans, dressing as a woman, ect : I won't lie, its not something you completely stop working on, but being masculine genuinely makes me happier, even if I have to work on KEEPING myself masculine.

To those who do not understand, I guess you could compare it to being NEET and not leaving the house : you want to just stay inside, but you typically feel better going outside : what you want isn't always what makes you happy.

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>>8609190
I would actually like some help anon.
You see when I was younger I had all this wanting to be a girl bullshit, it went away with time but still, fucking dudes is just too easy for me (me being active)
I mean I don't want to be gay but I don't really mind the difference between men and women and it's just too damn easy to get some boy ass to fuck.
What do I do anon, how can I recover my sanity
I do not want to fuck guys anymore but it's tempting specially when I'm a total autismo with girls and get along too well with guys.
Crap im getting emotional, please help me

>>8609288
I sometimes almost agree, but I try to follow a simple philosophy.

Do not complain about what you do not try to fix.

...its a great motivator to try to do things.

>>8609309
>tfw neet who enjoys going outside and also crossdressing

>>8609190
You seem to be redpilled, and there are plenty of redpilled homos. We hate the mainstream shit too.

But anyway, repression can work but I think only in the short run. You'll end up like one of those people who leave their families to be with a man or some shit (or even worse, pull a Bruce Jenner).
No shame in being bi & preferring women.

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>>8609190
There are plenty of people out there that don't hate LGBT people, but do hate the LGBT agenda. Do what you want behind closed doors. Stop imposing your "values" on people that don't want to join in your gay utopia.

>>8609322
Well I'm just frustrated you know..
I've tried to help some people and talk them out of the body dysphoria mentality, some of them do try to ignore it but they lake the willpower to do it and I'm powerless to help them, they just go back to trying to become a girl, hurting themselves in the process, until they don't want to be helped anymore, lose all hope and all that's left is depression.
It doesn't get me mad, anon, it just saddens me.
Its just sad that they fall on the trans thing like flies on the light..

>>8609190
Are you a repessed male or female? If you're male... why don't you just take Brainforce and Super Male Vitality?

Senpai how mentally ill do YOU have to be to plot from your basement of course the most appropriate course of actions according to your own set of ideas without taking in context whatsoever. Maybe you should give into your "repressed thoughts" so this isnt what youre spending your time doing and maybe actually being productive. None of this is likely to happen, you much less have any impact on how things will roll out. The difference between the SJWs that you hate so much and you is that theyre actually pushing changes and putting out so much effort to crush the opposition like any good political group. Youre no one, anon, and the more you think you have it all figured out, the less you think you have to learn and the less intelligent you are. Youre no one, this board means nothing to anyone outside of it, your opinions are just noise. Im happy anon, as an mtf im so proud to say that within 6 months of hrt and some electrolysis im so happy, no depression anymore, no misgendering, i have a gf that loves me regardless of my genitals (and by the way we fuck at least 5 times a weekend when we see eachother and we are going to move in together soon)

What about you? Surely as a straight, and such an intelligent individual *tips* youd be better off, no? Or are you going to just say youre incel? Because i bet 1000000 you still have never even kissed anyone. Youre pathetic, ur freaking dead kiddo

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>>8609332
>We hate the mainstream shit too.
That's awesome. I wish more of the LBGT community would tell their extremists to stfu.

>>8609316
To be honest, consider the value of restraint : you sound sexually addicted, which is a terible thing : I suffer from it too, with porn, and its STILL a struggle, but I notice the deeper I fall into addiction, the less happy I am.

You prefer guys (in a sense) because you are addicted to the feeling of orgasm, of the warmth of someone else, ect.

My advice to you is 2 things, which are painful, but ARE effective if you COMMIT to them for about a week, before seeing results

First off, become chaste : yes this sounds painful, maybe a little scary, but this is essential : its like any other addiction, it requires a detox for you to beat it, and the detox WILL suck. It will be aggrivating, it will be frustrating, and you won't have fun at first. But over time, you will change internally, you will crave sex less (will still be there, but it will transition to more of a WANT than a "need") and you will become sexually more sensitized. Beyond this you will be able to socialize better : ever heard of nofap? It applies to sex as well, and I think you could really benefit. Try also not to fantasize, as fantasizing, even if you don't fap, encourages that way of thinking : the whole purpose is to change how you think, and you need to get psychological momentum in that direction first before you start going that way easier.

Next, work on yourself : take pride in work, cook for yourself, improve yourself : sex can often be a crutch to feel desired when we feel we are undesirable ourselves : but this can be changed if we make ourselves better.

Work out, dress better, educate yourself, improve your work, ect : its hard to deny sex if you view yourself as low, and lifting yourself up helps.

its impossible to say "im better than this" if you do not FIRST give yourself evidence for the argument : So give yourself the evidence YOU CAN DO IT ANON!!!

>>8609360
Good advice anon.

>>8609354
Sadly, most LGBT people are sucked into liberal victim complexes. Especially us fems & the trannies, but there are some that see past the bs.

>>8609332
I still see sex with men as harmful, so I'm against it

To be fair, I have nothing but sympathy for the closet homosexual : its the active homosexuals I take any issue with.

>>8609335
I have issues with both LGBT agenda, and actions. But I understand the sentiment. I honestly view LGBT people like drug addicts, and no, thats not meant to mock : its a hard thing to escape, and takes a LOT of willpower, even if its obviously bad for you.

>>8609338
Its a VERY common trap to think anyone who disagrees with doing gay stuff / chosing to be trans is a bigot who hates you or is transphobic : you must first ask if there is any validity to their argument, but many people assume their isn't without hearing the argument first, or flat out ignore any points made.

>>8609343
male. Never heard of those.

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>>8609360
Thanks anon..
I actually started the no sex/fap thing already some months ago, it's been 2 months since I don't have sex with anyone and 4 since I don't have sex with guys.
You addressing how I may be liking the feel of warmth really made me reconsider, maybe I just do have some lack of affection deep inside.
I already work out 4 and all that stuff, it must be the lack of affection and thrill..
I will look into it, thanks anon

>>8609391
It's not harmful whatsoever, so long as the sex (as with any sex) is made within committed relationships, not within disgusting hookup culture.

As for the physical issues of gay sex, there are next to none that do not exist within vaginal sex.

OP I mostly agree with what your general sentiment but you can't simply suppress a mental disorder like you are suggesting. It's like telling someone to stop being schizophrenic or stop stuttering or stop having low IQ. These are things that are out of their personal control.

>>8609391
Why exactly do you see it as harmful? Is it because of the things you mentioned before or is there more to it?
And what do you mean by active homosexual?

Do you believe that homosexuality itself is a bad thing or just sex-addict, imposing homosexuals?

>>8609283
Do you realize that most people who say they are trans are really just sjw types that took over the medical condition to serve thier political agenda? Actual transsexualism is an intersex condition that somehow got lumped together with this degeneracy.

>>8609391
What about sexless homosexual relationships? Only oral, etc.

>>8609407
Not op but yeah this is a real problem, still our culture today don't help with this as there's too few people that don't want to give in to body dysphoria and actually ask for a cure.
And if you do ask for a cure and treat body dysphoria like a mental illness (see: body integrity identity disorder) then we could maybe have someone research on the topic.
>No research has been made since 1960

>>8609433
Imo, I'd barely consider that a relationship

You guys are so pathetic lmao. Just be whatever life calls you out for, morality is ancient and its always changing because we invented it ourselves. If by nature or even if its just social, this what we come to today why is it so hard to just accept it and live your life. This impact in no way the lives of anyone but yours. If you think repressing and trying to become something youre not is going to help you youre so so wrong, youll just become frustrated with the fact that you cannot change who you are and have a sad and lonely life. If being trans is a mental illness, repressing a biological need to transition is futility and it worsens your condition. Please seek therapy and find what went wrong in your childhood.

>>8609350
I don't give into repressed thoughts because its bad for me : similar how I repress the urge to murder, rape, steal, ect

Its ok to have thoughts, its different to act on them though.

I simply speak my mind because there are obvious detriments to being LGBT, and so if I can help ANYONE distance themselves from that, I do it, out of motivation to help peoples lives.

Its funny you call be straight because others would call me bi for having homosexual thoughts occasionally : as for kissing, well, I've never kissed a DUDE, but I've kissed women, one of which being my ex.

>>8609379
I try, if you have any other questions, ask away : I'm happy I helped at least 1 person.

>>8609390
This is the core of most of the problem : people blow up something like
>"I don't think you being gay / trans is good for you

into

>"I hope you die in a fire you faggot scum KYS!!!"

and end up pushing away and hating anybody remotely anti LGBT

AND IRONICALLY ENOUGH, this ends up causing ACTUAL hate, anger, insults, threats, and people telling them to kill themselves.

its extremely counter productive and backwards...

>>8609403
This is actually untrue, anal sex is unhealthy as is with both sexes, but gays almost always engage in anal "sex" aka sodomy.

it can cause infections, anal polyps, fecal incontinence, and other problems : so even in a committed relationship its unhealthy, and this is not even considering the issues of mental health.

For lesbianism its different, but lesbians have a huge amount of domestic violence, and typically become emotional messes : women, as much as I love them, are extremely emotional creatures, and 2 women dating is asking for emotional chaos.

>>8609415
See above. Aids, gay bowel syndrome (the term is outdated, but it doesn't mean its medically inaccurate : you can still find gay people who fit the diagnosis very easily) and mental health issues.

For homosexuality, its very important to distinguish : practicing or non practicing?

>>8609190
What level of education do you have? Have you read any serious literature on any of these issues? On what basis do you form your opinions? Not trying to be offensive, I'm actually curious.

>>8609453
Murder rape and theft arent bad for you, so its not really similar. Not biologically, anyway. Its bad because we have created a structure to punish those behaviors thay impact the lives of others strictly. Now please continue to preach this to a bunch of low self esteem, and malleable desperate minds so you can get the slightest recognition that will never leave this image forum. Youre just helping people delay their lives to try a method based on .. oh wait its not based on anything. Its pathetic how predatorial you are when you are trying to claim any moral ground. Youre pathetic and you should do everyone a favor and off yourself instead of repressing other people to justify your mental illness.

>>8609438
I just want a boyfriend to hold me and be my friend and make me feel safe...

>>8609477
We're you raised as a single child with no father?

>>8609453
How do you feel about homosexuals who don't engage in anal sex then?

Also, you seem to think that we have an imperative to not do something just because it's bad for us. Is the same true for smoking and drinking, or even eating unhealthily or not exercising. By your argument it appears wrong to do all kinds of thing that harm us, and yet by common sense we allow people to act in some ways that are harmful to them in respect of their freedom of choice.

>>8609425
This is why I'm against trans anyway though : they cannot even define what a man / woman is

my view is, why care about your """gender identity""" more than your sex? I cannot say I identify as a cop and just start acting like a cop, I'd get arrested : if you want to act like a fruit, fine, but acknowlege you are still your born sex, and use the right bathroom : being fruity was YOUR choice, so don't complain about feeling out of place in the bathroom : this is like me claiming a rap concert is racist for not talking to me when I wear a KKK robe. The fuck should I expect?

>>8609433
I think those are like a unicorn, so to speak : besides that, it wastes the resource of male sexual energy : males typically work, and put in effort to persue sex, and letting 2 men fuck each other is a massive waste

I also disagree with chronic masturbation, for the same reason : but not as something to be made illegal, just something to be shamed.

>>8609435
I honestly think soy is a HUGE part of the problem

Soy ends up giving your body far more estrogen, which can end up worsening GD and homosexuality in men.

>>8609451
>just go around killing people you don't like morality doesn't exist
I determine morality as what are the pros and cons of something.

Then weigh the pros and cons.

Pros outweigh the cons, when it comes to repression, but many people think theres NO pros to repression, and think theres NO cons to being LGBT : this is why people are so stubborn.

>>8609463
Some college : I've read lots on the history, coercion of the LGBT, and studies lots of psychology : pavlovian psychology or "classical conditioning" is very helpful to understand how LGBT works in many ways.

Course some argue you cannot change sexuality, with 0 evidence...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

I encourage anyone whos LGBT to read up on this, and consider how it might apply to your sexuality.

>>8609485
Yes.

>>8609469
murder rape and theft are bad for me...
>has chance to get me killed
>chance to get me jailed
>chance to fuck of the society I'm living in, which indirectly makes me suffer

yeah no, its bad.

Also whats my "mental illness" and how would you define "mental illness?"

>>8609494
Still a waste of male energy : male sexual energy often leads them to be motivated to do things, help people, ect, but if men can get their rocks off doing no work, they typically will : and this is very possible with homosexual relationships. Beyond that, women regulate sex through their needs that men provide, balancing out men helping, and getting sex.

And beyond that, homosexual men who don't engage in anal is a meme : they practically do not exist, if they did, the aids rate would be much lower.

>>8609190
What does ANTI LGBT even mean? That you would impose some sort of regulation if you had the power? Because I don't care if someone dislikes the lifestyle, as long as I'm free to live this way.

However, if you think homosexuality should be rendered illegal, you need to provide better arguments than you have currently.

That said, you seem to agree it shouldn't be illegal ( >>8609309), but that it should be allowed to be shamed. I'm not sure what you mean here. It's not currently illegal to try and shame homosexuality. 'Protest your actions' - what does this mean? That one can refuse service? Or what? In any case, you haven't provided any evidence that this would help remove the problem as you see it...

>>8609500
I would you to work on finding your masculinity, anon : you looking for a man to be a daddy, and presumably keep yourself a bit infantile is asking for a bad ending.

homosexual men are less commited, and you will make yourself weak seeking this.

Instead, make yourself BECOME the man you want : work out, find a good example of how a man should be, and emulate it : it might not feel convicing at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets, and you will feel better as you won't be so weak.

PROTIP : rather than lust for a "manly man", BECOME the "manly man". And yes, you CAN do it, but you must TRY first, and not give up the first time you fail

A Successful person fails more than a failure tries,

>>8609500
Me too.
I kinda feel the same, weird stuff because I always thought it wouldn't affect me

>>8609496
>Some college : I've read lots on the history, coercion of the LGBT, and studies lots of psychology : pavlovian psychology or "classical conditioning" is very helpful to understand how LGBT works in many ways.
>Course some argue you cannot change sexuality, with 0 evidence...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
>I encourage anyone whos LGBT to read up on this, and consider how it might apply to your sexuality.

Sorry, would you mind noting some of the books you have read? I'm currently doing a PhD in psychology so I'm really curious, because it's a very unusual position for anyone in the profession to hold (I'm sure in part because of political correctness in academia). So I'm wondering where you got these ideas from.
I'm curious especially in how you think pavlovian conditioning is related to LGBT issues - you lost me there

For the record, I think one CAN change their sexuality in principle, it just doesn't seem particularly healthy psychologically.

>>8609531
I don't want to emulate what a man should be though.

>>8609544
Why does having no father and being a single child do this?

>>8609391
You have issues dude


I'm a muscle sub and I have no problems being a submissive faggot for my bf and I'm more secure in my masculinity than ever

>>8609510
>Still a waste of male energy : male sexual energy often leads them to be motivated to do things, help people, ect, but if men can get their rocks off doing no work, they typically will : and this is very possible with homosexual relationships. Beyond that, women regulate sex through their needs that men provide, balancing out men helping, and getting sex.
>And beyond that, homosexual men who don't engage in anal is a meme : they practically do not exist, if they did, the aids rate would be much lower.
So is masturbation also to be frowned upon I take it? And such men do exist - a quick google search leads to a study by Indiana University that puts the number at around a a third of gay men.
https://www.good.is/articles/gay-sex-is-not-anal-sex
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-10/iu-nsf101811.php
(Apologies for not citing the actual study, its behind a wall).

Also, do you have any evidence that gay men are less productive and do less work? It would seem unlikely, as gay men typically perform perfectly normally at work etc., which would seem to debunk the idea that they are unmotivated to do things.

>>8609518
It means anti LGBT behavior : homosexual sex, relationships, transgenderism, and going waaaaay outside the means of gender norms (not saying you can't knit as a dude, but wearing a dress as a dude, when not for comedy is weird. Expect to get laughed at)

Regulations would be minimal, short of protecting people ridiculing the LGBT in anything short of attacks, vandalism, stalking, or other crap. Essentially free up people to act as they will, calling you a faggot for your actions, and laugh at you for behaving poorly, particularly if you shun the idea of changing

People who however WANT to change would be provided the means to change, consoling, ect, and would receive protection from harassment that would be denied if they refused help : so you will be respected most if you try and change.

As for as far as it goes, it depends on the nature of the service, and behavior of the homosexual. I would pretty much keep out of this, but unless its ESSENTIAL, you would be subject to the business : basically don't be a flamer if you want service.

Course, I would try to enforce a culture where people are against shameless homosexuals, but sympathetic to closet homosexuals : so its up to YOU how you want to be treated, or if you want to risk service being denied.

>>8609544
>>8609544
Being without a father means you had no male figure, which will make you struggle on BEING male. This is why so many fatherless boys are homosexual, trans, or are criminals, because they never learned how to "be a man".

I would encourage reading proverbs, at least, this can be a big thing to understand good principles on being a man, and even if you hate christianity, I think proverbs has almost no mention of christ, god, or the holy spirit

yes, I'm a christian, but try to keep religion out ot the argument, because I know LGBT folks fetishize hating Christians.

I also was anti LGBT before being christian

Moral Orel S3 E13 Honor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZox57ANY4

>>8609360
>become chaste
Been there, done that, I was in the closet for years, in denial for years, it was shit, and it never got better.

>work on yourself
Nah, I actually don't have self-esteem issues. I'm an international athlete, I am good student at an Ivy university, I have a committed partner - I know this sounds like ridiculous posturing on an online anime image board, but I really don't think you can appeal to low self-esteem in all cases.

>>8609593
If you don't have any desire to legislate against homosexuality then I don't see why anyone on this board would have a problem with you.

All of us have come across much more hateful people in our lives, who WOULD want to make what we do illegal. So someone who merely disagrees with the lifestyle is really a small blessing. After all, you are entitled to your thoughts, I am sure there are ways that you live your life that I would think are harmful and detrimental to the good of society.

>>8609569
It's because of lack of the masculine point of view I guess
I.mean we should have had a father but we didn't so now.we feel the lack of one.
I joined the army when I was 19, that really cured me, it's full of manly men everywhere so i had father role models everywhere to look up to.
Still I fall for cute boys, can't be helped. I will become normal one day, I hope

>>8609551
I've mostly read studies, and researched older methods of psychology : from freud (mostly a whacko, but had small grains of truth in him) pavlov, as well as studying typical behavior or LGBT folks.

For pavlovian psychology, its complex, and everyone is different, but I will give an example

lets say a young boy is molested. He is forced into a sex act with another male.

There are many stimulations firing off at once. Pain, fear, sexual stimulation, feelings of affection, personal contact, ect : many of these conflict, of course, but depending on which were the most prominent, this will shape how the male feels on it

if the male is made to feel pleasure during it, he will identify it as a positive, and end up having homosexual thoughts.

This can even happen if one is forced to accept what is happening to survive psychologically, and then identifies with any abstract pleasure as its easier to tolerate in ones ego than being tortured : The mind is highly subjective, this is why some people hate being hit, and others get aroused from being hit : same principle.

Also, why do you think its unhealthy psychologically?

Would you argue a murderer shouldn't repress because its also unhealthy??

I understand you think its displeasurable at first, and is a trial : I won't argue its rough, but when arguing phsychological health, you MUST consider how long term you are thinking

Sure, short term psychological health will suffer, but long term it can improve

its like cutting out a lodged shard of metal from the body : short term you make the injuries much worse, long term, you prevent infection.

>>8609574
Ask yourself not if you want to do something, ask yourself if you want everything that comes with it

You might want to seek out a bf to fuck your butt, but this comes with being a sissy, being despised by many people, being a neet, being at risk for disease, lacking confidence, and many other problems

Be result oriented.

>>8609593
>Being without a father means you had no male figure, which will make you struggle on BEING male. This is why so many fatherless boys are homosexual, trans, or are criminals, because they never learned how to "be a man".
Ok have you got ANY evidence for such a bold claim? I have never seen anything (outside of a very naive and rudimentary analysis of freud) that suggests this?

Why is it so funny to watch a single person hold such a hilarious standpoint and slowly be debunked into how dumb they really are?

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>>8609614
Heey I actually got to think about my issues thanks to anon's response and it actually did made me feel.bettee and made.me reconsider.
Don't you argue against a.rwaponse that's not.meant for you, you bully!

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>>8609614
>>8609671
And my fucking phone keeps screwing my writing

>>8609631
But the single child part too?

I want a role model who looks after me and loves me not just someone from work.

>>8609569
having no father means you had nobody to teach you how to be a man.

Also final quote in
>>8609635
was meant for you...

>>8609574
Sorry, last quote was for other guy

You are obviously different, but still wasting your male energy.

Not all gays are the same, obviously, and not all homosexuals are little twinks.

>>8609582
Correct, even if its something I still suffer from : masturbation is a huge problem for men, robbing them of testosterone.

Only 1/3rd huh? I wonder how many of these are cases of dudes getting their dick sucked by a homosexual but refusing buttsex, not because they are homosexual, but because they want their dicks sucked : how many of these men are INDEED gay, and NOT """bisexual""""? Because this is important.

Gay men don't have kids, and don't build family institutions by and large. Don't assume work in the workplace is the only work their is.

>>8609614
I don't think you are the same guy, honestly, your post seems inconsitient. Why would you be chaste for years, come out, then say you hate being gay?

makes no sense, you gotta be trolling me =)

>>8609629
Nah, short of advertising it to children or anything

In short, if you want to fag it up, or lez out in your own home, away from others, I don't care that much : just keep it out the public eye.

Besides, I think culture is more effective than law.

>>8609642
Well, crime statistics for one....single mothers have significantly more crimes from their sons, and their sons end up failures far more often

>>8609650
What exactly "debunked" me?

>>8609671
>>8609678
Its all good.

Just remember, any and all changes must first come with the thought to change, and belief that you can.

>>8609688
This is a hard thing get past, but examine anywhere for GOOD role models : responsible men, protective men, logical men, strong men, ect : and just because a man is good with 1 thing, doesn't mean all his things are good. Seek out good traits in men, examine the effects, and emulate them

>>8609688
Ah the military is more than just work, it's almost a second family really, but they don't love you.
But yeah I was a single child too, I mean if I had a brother then I may at least have another male near so I could have been normal i think.
But since I had just my mother,and sometimes my grandpa, well that did it's job on me I guess.

>>8609635
OK so you are actually just an idiot. I regret trying to talk to you as if you were a sensible adult.
First, you don't seem to understand even the very basics of conditioning. It sounds like you are trying to talk about operant, not classical (pavlovian) conditioning. Moreover, conditioning requires long term exposure to stimuli such that automatic associations are made (either to reward/punishment, or a neutral stimulus in pavlovian). You describe an incident of molestation, and then babble on about some 'pleasure' and 'pain' and shit without every explaining what you think is happening.
>if the male is made to feel pleasure during it, he will identify it as a positive, and end up having homosexual thoughts.
Where did this come from? You are just pulling this out of your ass. What about homosexuals who weren't molested? This is some Freudian shit right here, and no, that is most assuredly not a compliment.

I can't even understand the point you are trying to make, and I notice the very suspect lack of citation to any real psychological paper. I begin to doubt you have read anything on this topic, any book, any paper, anything other than 4chan meme-images (and even in those you never actually checked the links they rarely provide).

The funny (or sad) thing is that you speak as if you think you are intelligent, when it is clear to anyone who actually knows what they are talking about that you haven't even a sophomoric grasp on the issues at play here. It's just hilarious that someone without even a college degree would try to posture themselves as some analytic thinker with infallible arguments - if you had an IQ over 100 you would realise that you as of now lacked the knowledge to make the sweeping claims you want to make, and would withhold judgement on issues that you clearly know so little about.

Seeing as you are a fan of Freud, may I suggest reading Anna Freud' on defense mechanisms for cognitive dissonance. You're a perfect case study for them

>>8609706
>>8609706
Owch

Bye felisha!

>>8609635
I don't want a bf to fuck my butt. I only want to be held and loved.

>>8609702
>but examine anywhere for GOOD role models : responsible men, protective men, logical men, strong men, ect
I see men like that in relationships and I want to be with one too. I don't want to emulate one though.

>>8609704
>but they don't love you.
That's the problem.

>I mean if I had a brother then I may at least have another male near so I could have been normal i think.
I don't know, the same could happen to him.

>>8609702
>Well, crime statistics for one....single mothers have significantly more crimes from their sons, and their sons end up failures far more often
That wasn't what your point was about.
Please show me the study that suggests that not having a father figure causes the child to have an increased probability to be homosexual.
You seem to have strong beliefs about the role of strong 'father figures', and yet you have provided no evidence to back up their importance. Surely such a central point of your argument should have plenty of empirical support?

Why don't you come back when you have got over 50% in any college course, rather than acting like you are well informed on any of this shit. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink. Try to provide some actual evidence, rather than basing your entire argument on intuitions, or to use terms you might understand, your fee-feels

>>8609706
you didn't read this, did you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
Read this then get back to me, THIS is the principle of how my example is explained

If you get a man and give him a blowjob, it will have pleasurable impulses, doesn't matter if its a man, woman, or a tranny : and if you have simoltanious stimuli of a blowjob, and whatever, you will end up pairing the good feeling of the BJ with whatever if there, which can make someone sexually prefer that.

Homosexuals who were NOT molested are typically either lacking in testosterone, lacking fathers, or have other medications messing with them : a male who does not know how to express manhood, or has higher estrogen will emulate femininity sometimes, which end up leading to homosexuality, as more males are interested in a feminine boy than women will.

>lacking knowlege
such as?

Also, I'm not a FAN of frued, I've just read his stuff for the sake of reading : I already said he was batshit most of the time, his "grains of salt" are that mother and father bring impressions opon the child of what men / women are, which was interpreted by him as "you want to fuck mommy/daddy". That, right there is the "grain of truth" to him.

Anyway, rather than a bunch of insults, why not try arguing against my logic? =)

>>8609763
Your logic is based on things that have empirical evidence.provide it to support your logix

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>>8609735
Ah, the rational man's argument; name calling! I'm glad you have proven your argument to be so infallible that it doesn't actually need to have any logic behind it whatsoever. I'm sorry that you are frustrated that people won't be convinced by your vacuous preaching about 'father figures' and 'male sexual energy' (which is such a ridiculous idea it reminds me of pic related - is this you?), but as of right now you're just another cunt who thinks he knows shit about stuff he is actually incredibly poorly informed on. Now fuck off with your pseudoscience and go read a book.

>>8609774
Lol youre the one insulting my iq which btw is over 180...

>>8609738
You won't be held and loved by a man besides your father : I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude but this will not happen without sex

humans and all animals do not do things without motiv : what would motivate someone to hold and love you?

I can say a woman would do this if you were a good provider, but you must FIRST become strong, masculine, ect.

Also, you saying you don't WANT to emulate it is part of the problem : you want to be held right? A woman will hold and love you IF you work, and emulate them

You can either be a faggot, and be "held and loved" as long as it takes a man to plow your ass, or emulate being a man, to attract a woman

saying you want to do neither is saying you are ok with nothing changing

Speak to your desires with your actions, NOT your words, talk is cheap.

>>8609743
Love is a wide variety of things

not all love is sexual, or even affectionate : I would argue theres a lot of love in the military, just without affection or sex involved in the love.

>>8609744
I'll show you a study on that when you show me a study looking at homosexuality and missing fathers =)

Get on it.

>>8609773
Do you disagree with the idea of classical conditioning?

Or why would sexuality be exempt?

>>8609774
I'm glad at least name calling in this thread is at a minimal, I expected worse : LGBT have an irrational hatred for anyone who questions them typically.

>>8609777
Sure it is.....

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>>8609706
Ops posts clearly uses a boy being abused as an example and doesn't necessarily implies that homosexuals are homosexual by the sole purpose of molestation, it's just an example to denote how certain things in someones life may drastically change the behavior of the person's future.
The molestation example.could have been used with an unmolested child who was raised with no father and how that would make the child prone to homosexuality because of the lack of a masculine role model.
Then your argument would be invalid, you based that argument on something completely subjective to the post.

The pavilion conditioning is obviously the RIGHT conditioning for ops post, please read what is the operant conditioning and you'll realise your mistake.
Let me spell it for you, in the operant conditioning a person's behavior is incentives with both punishment and reward, while the pavlovian conditioning works just by making associations on the brain, like bell = orgasm.
Since a child's behavior has nothing to do with the child being abused or having or not a father it is obvious that this is not a case of operant conditioning but a case of pavlovian conditioning as the child associates the pain or helplessness to sexual pleasure.
Of course this means the pavlovian conditioning is not applied to child's without abuse on their infancy as they are not being conditioned.
There's more to it tho, a child can condition itself if while still young he associates the thoughts of something being wrong with sexual pleasure. I can explain this further if you argue on the point of the pavlovian conditioning not being applied on kids without father.

50% of your post is just you doubting op with personal attacks and no actual argument which of course is invalid.
An IQ test is not an accurate way of picturing a person's intelligence and it has nothing to do with the matter; Also,
>>8609735 you can't /thread yourself, faggot.
1urk m04r

>>8609763
>you will end up pairing the good feeling of the BJ with whatever if there, which can make someone sexually prefer that.
Is this how you think conditioning works? Your professor must have taught you terribly.
I'll go through this slowly. Classical conditioning is when a neutral stimulus becomes paired with a stimulus that elicits a biological reaction, such that after many many iterations the subject responds to the neutral stimulus as if it were the potent one.

So in your example, the biological stimulus is the blow job, or sex.
The neutral stimulus is also sex, but rather the fact it is a man not a woman (already the argument begins to fail, as this is clearly not a neutral stimulus).
You then argue (I think, but it's hard to tell), that if one could become conditioned to associate the blowjob with the fact it is a man giving it. And hence become a homosexual?
However, classical conditioning is about reflexes, and automatic action, not about desires and orientation. Moreover, for what you suggest to make sense as conditioning it would require many many iterations of this process. Do you think every gay guy became that way because they were continually molested as children? Finally, this has nothing to do with the large majority of gay men who never experienced this phenomenon, and were gay before any association of the kind you are suggesting could be made.

>Anyway, rather than a bunch of insults, why not try arguing against my logic? =)
Your """"logic"""" is inscrutable. Your argument is not coherent in the slightest. There is nothing to argue against. Please provide me with a single source for the claims you are making and I will happily engage with you like an adult. Please tell me ONE (1) book you have read on either politics or psychology. Please.

>>8609738
Ah I get it, you have lack of affection..
Well that's sad, I had a lot of gfs and they are cute and all but are not really things meant to love you the way you want.
When I feel I need love I usually find a cat or just call my mother or eat some chocolate

>>8609792
>I'll show you a study on that when you show me a study looking at homosexuality and missing fathers =)
That's not how burden of proof works. You are the one who posited a causal relation, not me.

>>8609793
>The molestation example.could have been used with an unmolested child who was raised with no father and how that would make the child prone to homosexuality because of the lack of a masculine role model.
This is NOTHING to do with "conditioning". Childhood trauma is NOT Pavlovian conditioning.
Conditioning requires continual and repeated exposure, not one incident of molestation.

And if it *were* something to do with conditioning, it would much more likely be operant conditioning, given it would revolve around the pleasure associated with sex, and then associating that as having come from a man. If conditioning were to explain homosexuality, it would more likely be that, not classical.

>>8609792
>A woman will hold and love you IF you work, and emulate them
I don't want to be held and loved that way. A woman won't be strong and masculine.

>You can either be a faggot, and be "held and loved" as long as it takes a man to plow your ass, or emulate being a man, to attract a woman
>saying you want to do neither is saying you are ok with nothing changing
But both of those are horrible.

>>8609793
>t's just an example to denote how certain things in someones life may drastically change the behavior of the person's future.
dat aint conditioning nigga

>>8609777
Guaranteed you don't even understand how IQ is measured.

>>8609797
No.

Neutral stimulus is getting fucked in the ass or buggered by a guy, the possitive stimulus is blowjob, having cock fondled, ect

Don't assume all sex acts are exactly the same : getting a blowjob, or having ones junk fondled is prety inherently pleasurable, while being sodomized or messed with by a guy is NOT inherently pleasurable.

> classical conditioning is about reflexes, and automatic action, not about desires and orientation
Where the fuck do you think the reflexes and automatic actions come from dude?... They come from feelings internally.

Also, who the hell said it was about "automatic actions"? its about changing behavior through shaping ones feelings on something. Even if actions do not manifest, feelings remain.

my argument is if you take anything, and build a positive association with it in someones mind, it will become more accepted, even liked, if the perceived positives outweigh the perceived negatives.

Also, are you arguing nobody can be knowledgeable on psychology if they haven't read a book on it?

How do you think books were originally made?

Maybe some of these books were written without reading OTHER books?

....this almost sounds like an appeal to authority applied to books.

As I said, explain where you have issues with my logic, with quotes if necessary. If you find something specifically confusing, quote me and ask me to explain in detail.

>>8609806
My point was it hasn't been studied at all : so proof either way.

However from this thread, theres a couple people who are gay and fathreless, and I myself had a very absent father, so based on this threads data, its suggestive of what I say.

its not empirical data, but we lack that.

Then again, googling "missing fathers homosexual" I can find a few PDFs, which I'm too busy (and on bad internet) to read, but maybe you should?

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>>8609822
>>8609816
A child is too young to.underatams the implications of sexual acts and taking into account that most pedophiles don't want to hurt the child it's not trauma.
I had a girlfriend that had been abused as a child and she was happy to tell her tales being a female that identifica as male, furry and with toddler fetishes.
You can't force your logic if it has holes. It is not operant conditioning as what you are expressing is a clear example of pavlovian conditioning where pleasure = man.
I never quoted that conditioning explains homaexuality as a whole as every case is different but it's always something to take into account and it surely is the primordial cause of some cases of homosexuality.

http://archive.li/uAwGf
And here's a source on a study about how pavlovian conditioning in the childhood can affect the partner preferences of a specimen in the adulthood.

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For fucks sake I can't write for shit with this and I refuse to take my laptop.

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>>8609816
Actually its equal parts repitition and intensity.

Getting mugged by a nigger will make you afraid of black people, even if its just once, because being mugged is fucking intense

Likewise, SEX is intense

or are you suggesting you will only fear black people if you get mugged / horrifically raped twice? =)

>>8609821
You are wanting something unrealistic, and unlikely.

Like I said before, do you want to be assfucked? Do you want to be abused? Do you want all the ills that come with homosexuality?

I know you say both of those are terrible, but rather than whining that you don't like anything, ask yourself : what can you DO, which is better?

not what you WANT, but what you can DO?

Otherwise your just whining about what you want while doing nothing, which is only going to make you EXTREMELY depressed : this will slowly kill you anon, you are trapping and suffocating yourself on your own insecurity with masculinity.

>>8609822
Wow, you sure made it clear you are an idiot...

>>8609671
>>8609678
>>8609793
>>8609890
>>8609900
Have a cat

>>8609885
Ok, I'm out. You really think you can talk authoratitively on these empirical issues with absolutely no literature backing you up? It's not intersting or amusing to talk with someone who revels in utter ignorance, it's dull.

I actually do read psychological studies daily, and I have no interest in trying to engage with you any further. At this point it is just a simulation of grading one of my more stupid student's papers, except I'm not getting paid, and it's clear you have already convinced yourself than you know more than all the experts based on you hunches and sentiments.

The nice thing for me is that I know that outside of this website, in the real world, your views will always be met with derision and incredulity, because they are poorly thought out and have no empirical support. As for any hopes of becoming some sort of demagogue, your writing style is too sophomoric and confusing. Just cut to the point - being gay is harmful, kids needs strong father figures, blah blah - you should stick to those lines. In any case, I'm sure you are young and will remember these posts with embarrassment about how staunch you were on issues you weren't educated on. Until then, have fun.

>>8609816
Just to be very clear : you are saying it is impossible to learn anything on the first try.

You are saying this is absolutely impossible to do, whatsoever, because "you must repeat it"

So no child ever burned his hand on a hot coil and understood it was dangerous, without first burning it again right after

because you need patterns...right?

>>8609927
If they are so poorly thought out, why can't you make any direct criticism about them without arguing about "no empirical data" or "your didn't think this out"?

why not ask me some questions which are impossible to give a consistent answer too?

or did you never learn THIS in college?

I swear, you are a bigger faggot than anyone on this board...

>>8609912
>not what you WANT, but what you can DO?
I can meet more men and find one who will treat me like I need to be treated.

>you are trapping and suffocating yourself on your own insecurity with masculinity.
Why should I be masculine? I don't want to be.

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>>8609912
Thanks Anon!
You have a good hearth, you want to actually help people, I respect that.
I will have to leave the thread since I will be having tons of work tomorrow and I see that this thread has been derailed beyond repair..
Thanks for helping me, try a more low profile way of helping next time so triggered people will not derail your thread at once.
I hope you have a good night.

>>8609816
Good night for you (too) Anon, I hope you are not mad at me sorrykhtxbye

>>8609931
No, I'm saying that wouldn't be conditioning. not all learning is conditioning

>>8609885
Holy shit, this reddit spacing.

>>8609944
>I can meet more men and find one who will treat me like I need to be treated.
Why would a man do this? What would motivate him to spend time on your sorry ass?

>Why should I be masculine? I don't want to be.
Why do you not want confidence, power, and self reliance?

The problem is by saying you "do not want to be masculine" you are butchering your chance to be confident, strong, and be more successful

If you were to tell yourself you wanted to be masculine, look at all the benefits of BEING masculine, and made steps to BE more masculine, then you would end up enjoying it

But if you never move past the
>BUT I DONT WANNA
then you will get nowhere anon. Sure, you might not want to be masculine, but try doing it anyway : you will end up changing your mind a little if you really try.

I'm NOT trying to beat you up, or make you feel worse, but being a beta, NEET male who hates masculinity and doesn't want it up the ass will make almost NOBODY want you : being masculine, while you dislike the IDEA of it, will open up so much to you, so much that you truly cannot even understand yet

Besides, can't be THAT much worse then being a foreveralone NEET hermit right?... Just try it for a month, just to see if you feel any better, at any point AT ALL.

I know you have a good man in you, but you need to first allow him to come out, but stop saying "cant" and "wont".

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>>8609948
How is any learning not conditioning?

*Gets popcorn*

>>8609973
If that is the biggest criticism for my thread, its been a good thread =)

>>8609978
Hahha shiiiit this is like the most poorly written self help book of all time
'Find your inner alpha male on 4chan" kek
Please tell me English isnt your first language my dude

>>8609985
>>8609985
Do you think when you learned calculus you did so by associating a neutral stimulus with one that elicits a biological reaction?

Well. Not you personally given I doubt you ever learned calculus.

>>8609978
>Why would a man do this? What would motivate him to spend time on your sorry ass?
Because I'd love him and be his friend and make him feel happy.

>Why do you not want confidence, power, and self reliance?
Why don't women?

>then you would end up enjoying it
How do you know.

>Just try it for a month, just to see if you feel any better, at any point AT ALL.
Try what? What exactly are you telling be to do?

>>8609987
Any specific part you thought was poorly written anon?

Or is this just a generic insult?

>>8609997
Nah trust me this insult is specific to you
I'm gonna guess... brasillian?

>>8609992
I never learned calculus, you are correct, but the same principle applies.

Also, what is your obsession over biological reactions? The issue is STIMULI, not biological BS : any stimuli can work, you just need to be aware of the stimuli being presented, all the feelings associated with it

But I will provide an example : math.

Math is learned because first, parents, teachers, peers, encourage the usage of math. This inspires desire to learn it
Second, when doing it correctly, there is typically praise, which encourages more of it

And even without teachers, or ANY social elements, its a simple fact of learning IS classical conditioning : we know 2 + 2 is 4, because every single time, without fail, when we add 2 + 2, we get 4.

The basis of learning IS classic conditioning, associating the stimulus of 2 + 2 with the result of 4, and every single time you do it, you get this result, so you associate the pattern and learn it.

They are the exact same methods.


>>8609994
>Because I'd love him and be his friend and make him feel happy.

Unless you are providing sex, most men won't want to do this. Most straight men will think you are annoying and a faggot, and most gay men will want to shove it up your ass..

>Why don't women?
its biologically inate : you are compromised because you are obsessive about getting affection you lacked as a child, and don't want to be masculine because you don't know how, think you will suck at it, and its uncomfortable : but you need to push past these if you want change

>How do you know.
Anything which is accepted, looked at with optimism, and paired with enjoyable perceptions / stimulus that outnumbers negative stimulus / perceptions will end up being liked

But you must FIRST go in with optimism, try to be masculine, count your blessings and try to not focus on your burdens. This way your perceptions will be positive, and you will end up enjoying it, over time.

>>8609994
>Try what? What exactly are you telling be to do?

Work out, do fun, masculine stuff, even if its playing a corny game like brutal doom and having a power fantasy : encourage masculinity in any way that you can. Look at masculinity and self with OPTIMISM, try to remove "I dont want to be masculine" from your vocabulary, and do whatever is enjoyable.

Do you like physical activity? Go into the woods and smash stuff with sticks.

Do you like video games? Play aggressive, masculine games like gears of war, brutal doom, or any game where the charecter you play as is masculine as fuck.

At the same time, reduce any stimulus or perceptions that makes you feel girly : this is krypronite to masculinity.

>>8610005
American, actually.

And not even on a bible belt, I live near a VERY liberal city.

>>8609994
Also, make diet changes

REMOVE soy completely : this fucks your masculinity hard

Try to lose fat, and build muscle : eat meats if you can, even just cheap ass salami does great for raising testosterone.

Ginger, parsley, fruits and vegetables help, but keep away from soy : be it in egg rolls, snacks, whatever, they fuck your masculinity pretty hard.

>>8610053
So doing a sum once isn't enough to get the answer? We only learn what the answer is when we do it many tims and... find the answer is the same each time? What the fuck? You can't seriously think that learning in mathematics is the same process as Pavlov's dogs learning to salivate. Please go speak to your teacher are extremely confused

>>8610082
Getting an answer and learning are 2 different things

Just because someone hands you a fish, or someone walks you through how to fish 1 time doesn't mean you KNOW how to fish

you know how to fish if you can fish on your own.

>>8610082
Also, what is your obsession with multiple times?

You CAN learn something the first time, just multiple times is more effective obviously.

I could shoot a dog 1 time in the leg while wearing an orange jump suit, and it would learn damn quick to not like me, and probably not like my jumpsuit : because learning, associative behavior, classic conditioning, is all based on ONE CORE CONCEPT : amount of correlation.

Yes, correlation doesn't equal causation all the time, but this is the basis of learning, is correlating things establishing patterns allowing us to predict future things.

>>8610088
The fuck has that got to do with what I said.
I learn what the derivative of y=14x^2 is by doing the fucking sum, not by Pavlovian conditioning you idiot

>>8610107
And you learned that math due to correlations of consistent results making you have the perception that it is the correct way to do math, conditioning you to believe that the mathematics are reliable.

>>8610114
But that's not how I learned what the answer is. Ergo, not all learning is conditioning.

>>8609650
Actually it's funnier to see people like you respond. So wrapped up in your parochial victimhood complex that you literally are unable to comprehend an opposing viewpoint. You are the dumb one my friend. Many of us agree with OP

>>8610118
obtaining information is not the same as learning anon, but what I said still holds true.

You believe mathematics are reliable, and so you trust the answer via the mathematics are reliable.

Hence, you trust it as it first in with all your Pavlovian learned behaviors of the past, and no stimulus is inconsistent, giving you trust that the math is indeed effective

See, the answer is more a stimulus, than something "learned". Its only "learned" if you remember that specific answer off the top of your head : which you WILL DO, briefly, because you correlate the input information with the mathematics, both "good" stimuli, true, and believed, with the end result.

My question is, why do you think this had nothing to do with stimulus and psychology? How do you think this functions?

I admit speaking about the names and titles for these things is a bit silly, but learning of mathmatics, learning to fear something, or learning to enjoy something, all follow the same psychology : whatever you call it, learning, classic conditioning, whatever : It all follows the exact same method.

>>8609453
>similar how I repress the urge to murder, rape
You have the urge to murder and rape? jesus christ kid.

>>8610118
Another thing to consider : what, psychologically is different, between a dog hearing a bell everytime before being fed, and you getting a correct answer every time you use proper math?

What makes something learning?

What makes something pavlovian association?

How is the dog not learning?

How are you not pavlovian associating?

How are learning and pavlovian associating different?

Answer these questions if you want to get anywhere with this : perhaps I missed something, and you can clear it up?

But if you cant, then well...I'm inclined to think you aren't sure yourself, and are full of shit =)

>>8610128
Thanks

>>8610146
Occasionally, in the very back of my mind yes.... I don't lie to myself, and I realize focusing on these ideas is not good for me, so I shun the thoughts when I get them, but to say I've never had the abstract, odd thought to rape or murder would be a lie.

Everyone on this board, I'm sure has thought about suicide, homicide, theft, violence, ect, even if they do not COMMIT these things.

And thats why I bring it up : its taboo, and nobody talks about it, and this is why.

Mark twain said every man has a dark part he shows nobody : and this is why, because I show you with honesty, and you are repulsed : Course, I'm merely acknowledging the existence of thoughts, not committing actions

the reason WHY, is because especially for LGBT, theres the idea that you cannot help it, and you can never resist / escape thoughts, or be happy resisting them : and this is a lie, I resist the urge for violence at least once a week, and I'm happier than if I did it and ended up in jail

Likewise, you can have the urge to be homosexual, resist and avoid abuse, health issues, and other problems with it, and end up happy : just because you resist a feeling doesn't mean you will be miserable : but really its kinda the opposite, letting you run away with your emotions typically makes life worse.

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>>8609496
Your example is flawed. If one truly "identified" as a policeman, they would research, go to law school or police training, and complete any other possible steps they would need to become that cop. Wouldn't you compare that to a trans person who goes to therapy, takes hrt, works out, and does the best they can to get to their goal? You are right tho, only the nutcases would try to just pretend in either scenario.

>ITT Alt-Right and MGTOW for queers.

>>8610166
I can confidently say I've never had to repress the urge to kill someone. Maybe you just have a naturally violent temperament.

>>8610168
>if one identified as a policeman they -
And what if they couldn't do these things?

Who are you to take away their identity? What are you, Some transphobe?!

You are no better than saying a MTF isn't a woman cause they have a dick.

BIGOT!!

In all seriousness, this is the problem I have...

men and women are identified as "if you say you are, you are" because its liberal and inclusive. And by law, this is ALSO how its defined too : in seattle a guy was chilling in a womans locker room, hairy chest, beard and all, and nobody could make him leave because he SAID he identified as a woman


You must clearly define men and women, and work from there

but since the dawn of time, MEN were people with penises, WOMEN were those with vaginas

and hermaphrodites, but they are crazy rare.

and, at least under THESE conditions, a man cannot become a woman.

and no, minced up penis and ballsack is not a vagina, its a mutilated wound.

>>8610166
Nah ur just an idiot.
I mean that unironically and sincerely. I have nothing to gain by interacting with you, try say your views to anyone outside of this site who has knowledge and see how they respond

>>8610171
>alt right
this is the term used on anyone not progressive enough : people call sargon of akkad alt right, and he supports gay rights

Alt right is a label, nothing more =)

>MGTOW
What?

I think men should get married to women...

>>8610187
>literally never had the inkling in your mind of "I kinda want to kill this guy"

I do not believe you.

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>>8610195
Nice insult bro

Really burned me so good, and proved all of my arguments wrong with that

how ever will I recover?

pic related : off to kill myself now

woe is me.

...also, I do spread this outside, and most either quietly agree, or react hostile and irrational like you.

>>8610205
>I do not believe you.
Well, it's true.

>>8610216
So you have never once had temptation to do something, but refused?

Even if you are telling the truth (you must have very low testosterone) its impossible for you to have NEVER been tempted to do something immoral.

Might be stealing, rape, hurting someones feelings, taking advantage of someone, whatever. But I don't know much or your character, so it could be anything : but to say you have never been tempted to do something, and resisted is an outright lie.

>>8610236
>So you have never once had temptation to do something, but refused?
I never said that. I said I've never had to repress urges to kill or rape someone.

>>8609283
>is a massive waste of resources
You have a computer. You're wasting resources right now. Do you have a wife and kids? You aren't establishing good family traditions.

Hop on a dick before the ship known as modern society sinks.

>>8609399
Missed this one.

Its partially a lack of affection, if you lacked it during childhood from mother or father, but if it hit home that hard, its probably true

I'm not an expert at dating advice, mind, but if you found a girl who was slightly needy, it might fit you : most people who hate needy people are people who themselves fear intimacy.

and do not confuse sex and intimacy : they are different.

>>8610244
I guess, you must have low T, or be a girl or trap or something. Or just never been made very angry by anyone.

Point still stands though : its ok having thoughts, its acting on them which is the issue.

>>8610252
I would argue shitposting on 4chan is less wasteful than keeping otherwise good men from having wives.

Some waste is ok, but the worse it gets, the more you must question.

Like spending millions on education, work, providing jobs, ect, to a gay person who will not pass it down to the next generation

....why?

>>8610265
Why are you implying that you understand anything at all about how the world works or should work ? Why do you mistakenly believe that you've spent enough time reflecting objectively on these matters ?

>>8610278
Why are you implying I'm incorrect?

>>8609569
>Why does having no father and being a single child do this?
It doesn't. If someone was raised by a single father and turned out gay, then people would argue they weren't raised to be comfortable around women or some other BS.

>>8610290
Whats to say not having a mother would make one unsure how to approach women, and end up becoming gay since men are easier to interact with?

And whats to say not having a father would make it difficult to be masculine, which could lead to homosexuality is invalid?

>>8610265

> Like spending millions on education, work, providing jobs, ect, to a gay person who will not pass it down to the next generation

But homosexual couples won't have biological children, which means they can put more time and effort into their jobs.
Or, assuming that the people in question aren't insane, if homosexuals were allowed to adopt, they could raise abandoned children that could potentially be stuck in the adoption system until they're old enough to be thrown out in the streets. I'm not from US, so I don't really know how the adoption system works there, but I imagine that adoption systems everywhere are flawed.

Also, I know few men who had repressed their homosexual urges, only to crack when they got older, had wives and kids and whatnot but that's anecdotal evidence and as such isn't valid.

I've only skimmed through thread, as I wanted to reply before it goes completely dead, so I apologize if what I say has been covered elsewhere.

>>8610307
My point is people make up whatever psychology mumbo jumbo they want to try and explain it. And when they encounter examples that don't fit any of their preconceptions, it always has to be something else, some other overly simplified explanation so that they can wrap their heads around it. The truth is sexuality is complicated.

Why is talking to repressors like talking to a wall?

It's as though they have single track minds. No matter what they say, they always circle back through to the say same things, over and over.

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>>8610339
Those jobs are providing money which COULD be used to raise a good, strong family : but instead is wasted on pride parade BS

Don't tell me that isn't a waste.

Typically these men crack because they refuse to handle the stress, and don't communicate with their wives. You need to discourage that behavior with homophobia, its actually a healthy thing to keep homosexuality at bay.

People with no internalized homophobia are more at risk.

Beyond that, gay people adopting kids have more issues. Pic related. So still a waste.

>>8610341
>>8610341
Are you saying things cannot have multiple causes?

>>8610363
If you have an issue with the logic of it, point out an inconsistency.

If there isn't any, perhaps its right.

>>8610369
>Are you saying things cannot have multiple causes?
You're saying that not having a father can make you gay. Also, not having a mother can make you gay. So basically any scenario you could find a way to twist to explain why someone is gay. The vast majority of people born into practically every given situation turn out straight, so there must be some other factor, besides psychological.

>>8609283
>Trans is top for obvious reason : its a decline into insanity for most, and flat out denial of reality
you're the one crying into delusion
Do you wear clothes? how about glasses?
at what point do we draw the line that "you aren't born that way so you have to suffer the biological consiquences of your shitty mutation."?

>>8609309
>But if you want to have a homosexual act, I think you should be granted amnesty from law as long as its in private, but absolutely EVERYONE should be allowed to shame you / protest your actions.
they already are allowed to do that, they just aren't allowed to do it on the clock.

>>8609335
>sign a contract that says you will serve all the public and to not descriminate
>descriminate
they broke the contract.

>>8610419
No actually

The CORE or what makes you gay is well, building some sort of an attraction to males.

This itself can have many causes

And those causes can have many causes

its not so much not having a mother or father, so much as not having an opportunity to learn how to interact with women, or not knowing how to "be a man" which are incredibly common symptoms of both things

but I would argue that not having a mother is less likely to make one gay

Really, you are partially correct that is complex : theres a multitude of things

One could have no father, but have an amazing brother like friend

One could be molested, but be made to realize its not a good thing, and grow up normal, rather than identifying with pleasure, and being gay

You can't realistically expect me to post every single possible outcome for someone being gay, just like you can't possibly list every possible outcome for someone having a leg amputated : the context surrounding it is always different, but core elements are usually the same, or mixed.

I will say, for tops, its a bit different : usually its from being abused, beaten, mistreated, and """"as a sign of dominance"""" which mixes with sexuality.

>>8609496
>my view is, why care about your """gender identity""" more than your sex?

For me it has always been fixing my body to make myself feel comfortable with myself. I am simply trying to get you to understand that I was born with an intersex condition I am well aware that my experience being born this way is different than cis people, but that does not invalidate me as a person suffering a legitimate intersex condition. When you are born cis you are comfortable with yourself so you have no need to consider this perspective.

>>8609496
my view is, why care about your """gender identity""" more than your sex?
becuase that identity is just a construct expression that describes the feelings of disphoria over the "natural" body.

HRT and surgery is proven in increasing livelyhood

>>8610445
How in gods name does clothing make me insane? Clothing is a choice to avoid arousing / disgusting others, to keep me warm, safe from damage, ect

Trannies flat out deny their born sex and damage their health because "they feel like it".

>>8610452
not really, you can be fired, and publically shamed / doxed for it

my ideal world would make this a minor serious crime, to mistreat someone based on their dislike for gays.

IE, you fire me because I'm anti gay, you end up with an automatic lawsuit.

As I said, culture is more important than law, and culture today sides with homos.

hopefully this changes.

>>8610458
>>8610458
Discrimination is a stupid concept : anyone who has ever refused to serve a drunk person has ALSO discriminated.

Discriminate just means to treat differently, and this by itself, is NOT a bad thing.

>>8610369
But I do think pride parades and anything related are a waste.
However, what is the reason for pride parades? It's supposed to be organized to "battle homophobia". However, if everyone magically stopped giving two shits about who fucks who, nobody would think about organizing such events. I don't want to open a debate on whether parades are effective or not.

>because they refuse to handle the stress
Why should anyone put themselves under lifelong stress just so they would satisfy an arbitrary social norm? Won't that stress affect the family eventually? I could, in theory, keep my homosexuality at bay by not being in a relationship with a man, but I doubt I could pretend to be straight for the rest of my life. Maybe I could force myself to have sex with my hypothetical wife, which would most likely be unsatisfactory, which could make her think that something is wrong with her, which leads to an unhappy family. I'm saying how I perceive my future. It's not meant to be a proof of anything.

>Beyond that, gay people adopting kids have more issues.
I'm willing to argue that those problems come from our society. I think LGBT people are more mentally unstable because of the discrimination, bullying and/or closet, which is direct consequence of society's perception of LGBT individuals.

Does that study take into account society's perception of said children BECAUSE they come from non-hetoresexual family?
Also, are children that are taken for LGB samples adopted children or their biological children? If they're adopted, is the whole trauma related to adoption process taken into account?

I don't think that the problem is in LGBT individuals per se; I'd blame the LGBT culture that is getting more and more extreme, as well as the anti-LGBT culture. If people just stopped giving a fuck, world would be a better place, imo anyway.

>>8610484
you wear clothes you werent born with, they help you but they are not natural
>muh damage
oh so you're a science denier. transexuals get better with treatment
>not really, you can be fired, and publically shamed / doxed for it
then it is fair to say you are a homophobe and on the extreme end. allowing this kind of law is the same as saying "don't be gay or you'll starve on the street"

you may as well stop pretending to have the moral high ground when you give anyone the right to kill us.

>>8610464
I can understand, and to a certain extent relate : I have body issues too.

But I figure being trans will make everything worse, so I cope with the body I have, and try to make it better within the means of my born sex.

You complain about being cis, but I'll parrot what I told
>>8609994
First, stop telling yourself you are trans : every single time you say this, you make the feeling stronger

Second, BELIEVE you can be the gender / act like the gender you were born as : idealize it, look for the bright side on it, FOCUS on the positive...

The more you BELIEVE in this, the easier time you will have being cis. Mind over matter.

I'm not denying you aren't comfortable, I'm just denying that its a good idea to alter your body to become comfortable, rather than alter your MIND to be comfortable.

>>8610481
Whos to say dysphoria cannot be cured by being more masculine / feminine to suit your body?

I've never seen any studies on conversion therapy, strangely...perhaps because they work.

Also, HRT and surgery shouldn't be lumped together, HRT lessens depression as the feelings of cognitive disonance (aka gender dysphoria) are subsided a little, but this doesn't remove the delusions

surgery brings on huge medical problems, infection risk, and can lead to suicide.

>>8610458
>sign a contract
No they didn't, liar.

>>8610459
What about gay people who were born with strong male role models? Who were born into whole and happy families? Who were raised with conservative, traditional values? Why does there always has to be something that 'went wrong?' The reasons that you cite for someone being gay, the vast majority of those people turn out straight. An intellectually honest person would examine what the reasons behind this might be, but you stubbornly assert they must've been abused, or molested, or not raised in a functioning household, when this simply isn't true.

You hold your position not because you've researched, and have actual knowledge on how sexuality works, that much is clear. It's because you're desperate to justify your pre-existing world views, with simple, easy to understand answers.

>>8609190
name one disadvantge to being gay

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>>8610493

>pride parades aren't a waste
>inheriently wasteful celebration that promotes a wasteful lifestyle

Ok? Also homophobia is natural, and not a bad thing.

>Why should anyone put themselves under lifelong stress
Its called not being a shitty parent, like pic related. Also, you are implying you cannot cope with stress with other means, like being together with family, a loving wife, ect.

And again, a big part is RESISTING temptation. Nobody just ends up coming out as a massive faggot after being married without looking at gay porn or other gay stuff which encourages the behavior to the surface

>I'm willing to argue that those problems come from our society
This has been the cope out for gay people forever : its very little different than black people blaming their problems on racism.

>I don't think that the problem is in LGBT individuals per se; I'd blame the LGBT culture that is getting more and more extreme
I would argue LGBT breeds the LGBT culture because its illogical and anti reality a lot of the time.

it encourages crazy behavior.

>>8610506
>not natural
Did I ever make a "natural" argument???
Pretty sure I never did mate.

Besides, this is a fallacy.

>then it is fair to say you are a homophobe and on the extreme end
This is subjective. People can fire me for simply not supporting a pride parade, legally speaking, or not engaging with a homo event in the company.

As for gays starving, it IS their choice, 1, and second, you can find other work. Some places are picky, but MOST give no fucks

>right to kill you
Denying you work is not murder.

>>8610548
Do you believe things are "completely random"?

I do not.

I think every, single thing in the world has SOME cause to it, even if its too complex, small, or undetectable for us to know.

So I would then ask, what causes homosexuality?

its certainly not genetics...

>The reasons that you cite for someone being gay, the vast majority of those people turn out straight
This is correct, and this is because the cause is NOT flat out abuse, and NOT flat out not having a father, but instead mental effects which STEM from these frequently

If someone goes through something, but comes out ok, this doesn't mean it wasn't a risk factor.

Also, I figure the people you mention perhaps had lots of soy when in the womb, or something. Thats a big cause.

Whatever the case, there must be a cause, or causes to homosexuality, and your free to join the debate on what these are. Like I said, there are many causes. Maybe your aware of one I'm not?

I heard soy in the womb or other chemicals can do it...

>>8610562
Several fold increased aids risk?
Oh, you mean lesbian
Several fold increased domestic violence risk?
Oh, you mean transexual
Several fold aids risk, domestic violence risk, and medical expenses?

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Lmao.

>>8610590
>This is subjective. People can fire me for simply not supporting a pride parade, legally speaking, or not engaging with a homo event in the company.
no, they fucking can't.
This isn't japan

>did I ever make a natural arguement
you said transitioners are wrong to transition because it isn't the body theyre born with you mong.

>I kill you if you tell me youre gay, its your choice to do that so I am not a murderer
retarded psychopaths the lot of you

>>8610537
yes they did you dumbass
http://civilrights.findlaw.com/enforcing-your-civil-rights/discrimination-in-public-accommodations.html

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>>8610638
>no they fucking can't

"""homophobes""" are not a protected class.

Theres no law saying you cannot fire someone for being anti gay, that I'm aware of

>you said transitioners are wrong to transition because it isn't the body theyre born with you mong.
This is not a "natural" argument, this is an argument on the ethos of medicine : first do no harm

mental help is the most minimally invasive and flexible you can get, while hormones and surgery is EXTREMELY invasive. Its also far more risky than seeking mental help

Its medically unethical.

>retarded psychopaths the lot of you
Uhm, nobody is threatening to kill you...or advocating for that to be ok. Are you having trouble discerning reality???
Oh by the way, for a secret easter egg guys, read the first letter of each "paragraph" in my first post.

>>8610643
That's a law, liar.

>>8610638
>no, they fucking can't.
>This isn't japan

All these were from Japan, huh?
>>8606768
>>8607040
>>8607382

>>8610626
>its certainly not genetics
And why not? Or some other biological causes such as hormonal development in the womb? The fact you refuse to acknowledge this as a potential cause reveals your bias.

>but instead mental effects which STEM from these frequently
Oh yeah? Prove it. Because it sounds like you're pulling that from your arse.

I don't know exactly what 'causes' it, but I don't see homosexuality as a problem so it's kind of a moot point for me anyway.

>Oh, you mean lesbian
Several fold increased domestic violence risk?
I know this wasn't directed at me, but come on. You can't think of any other reasons why there would be more REPORTED domestic violence from lesbian couples? Not like it would even matter if it were accurate.

>>8610643
Your source doesn't mention sexual orientation lol =)

Besides, I find it immoral, the reason everything besides religion is covered is because its not a CHOICE

if a dude its from india, he cannot help that he was from india, this can never change

you can change if your a homo though..

as for religion? Religion often has massive benefits of community, family values, ect, which are important enough to be protected in most cases.

>>8610687
This. people get fired due to that all the time.

>>8610717
>genetics
yet to of found a single genetic correlation for one.

Or did I miss it?

> I don't see homosexuality as a problem
Even with aids, gay bowel syndrome, and all the other crap?

What makes this acceptable to you?

As for proof, I doubt we are going to fund a study on the effects of child molestation anytime soon, because child molestation is incredibly fucking stigmatized.

You can't do attrocities to humans in a clinical study, but maybe you should review a few people in the thread who had what I said hit home for them

Besides, what if it ends up working? Who are you to deny people hope of changing for the better?

> You can't think of any other reasons why there would be more REPORTED domestic violence from lesbian couples
Enlighten me.

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>>8610717
>domestic violence doesn't matter
u wot?

>>8610590
>Ok? Also homophobia is natural, and not a bad thing.
Not necessarily. Homophobia might as well stem from Christian (or Abrahamic) morals under which the world has lived for some two thousand years.
I only wanted to say that pride parades are a waste in a sense that they do more harm than good. And any good that they do is forced, in my opinion.

>are implying you cannot cope with stress with other means, like being together with family, a loving wife, ect.
But the problem is: I don't want a family. Reason being is that I don't want a loving wife which I will never be able to physically love and who will get hurt in the process. What I wish for is a husband who holds same opinions as me regarding this whole mess and a child who will not be tormented by society for having two fathers, which is currently impossible and I don't want anyone to suffer. And no, I'm neither a pedophile nor mentally unstable.

>And again, a big part is RESISTING temptation
Why should I resist something that doesn't really harm me or anyone else? Don't pull the "waste argument" again, because I can be a valuable member of society even as a gay (childless) person.

>Nobody just ends up coming out as a massive faggot after being married without looking at gay porn
Maybe. But why would a completely heterosexual person watch a gay porn in the first place?

>This has been the cop out for gay people forever
Yes, but I'm not copping out. LGBT people are innocent. Black people seem to get offended when they're tasked to end stereotypes about themselves. I think that it's our duty to do so and I don't think I'm alone in these aspirations.

>I would argue LGBT breeds the LGBT culture because its illogical and anti reality a lot of the time.
I also said that anti-LGBT culture is getting more and more extreme as well. The two extremes are feeding each other and it's a embarrassing pissing contest at this point.

>>8610825
cont.
Speaking of anti-reality, you're the one who is going to the extreme of proclaiming that not being straight is something inherently wrong, because of statistics tied to LGBT people. Also, you dehumanize people completely by reducing them to statistics and mere resources. Is this completely sane to you?

Let me just quote your previous post:
>culture today sides with homos
>hopefully this changes
This is exactly what is wrong these cultural wars. Extremism leads into extremism because the one side feels oppressed by the other and when they come into power, they believe that it's their right to oppress their oppressors. This is what third wave feminism has become. Instead of burying the hatchet and striving for a egalitarian society, we have a horde of people demanding that men get worse treatment for something that hasn't been practiced for quite some time now.

Even if the culture changes to a culture that's against homosexuals, it will change again and again. Until both sides decide to stop these petty fights and learn to coexist without forced tolerance, but with love towards another human being, we will never be at "cultural peace".

>>8609190
gayyyyyyyyyyyy

>>8610825
>LGBT people are innocent
LGBT people aren't completely* innocent

>>8610749
>>genetics
>PROOF, WHERE'S THE PROOF?
>>molestation
>well... there's no proof, but look at this anecdotal evidence!

Most of the stuff I've seen has been about how hormones in the womb can affect the way genes are expressed. Pretty interesting stuff, but I'm certainly no authority on the subject.

>What makes this acceptable to you?
Straight people can also get sexual infections. Should they not be able to have sex too? At the end of the day though, what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business, and it's none of yours either. It isn't a 'problem' you can solve.

>Enlighten me.
No. This is a good exercise for you to think critically, rather than take statistics at face value.

>>8610798
Wow, great reading comprehension there buddy. I'm implying it wouldn't matter if lesbian couples did have higher rates of domestic abuse. That shouldn't stop the majority of lesbian couples which that does not apply to.

>>8610825
>Homophobia might as well stem from Christian (or Abrahamic) morals
Theres athiests who hate homosexuality too, you know

I used to be one. People can find reasons to find it immoral which are not "muh bible" believe it or not, like the immense problems they cause, or that it fucks up family values

>But the problem is: I don't want a family.
This was never about you : you asked about why people would put themselves under stress. I answered why. Your response is a non sequitur.

>What I wish for is a husband who holds same opinions as me regarding this whole mess
Its not a husband, as you are not a wife.

You just want a dedicated homosexual partner who will coddle / provide for you.

> I'm neither a pedophile nor mentally unstable.
I never said that. But the fact you think homosexuality isn't harmful makes me doubt your mental stability.

> LGBT people are innocent
LGBT people made their decision which is directly the cause of their problems. This is not innocent by definition.

>2. not responsible for or directly involved in an event yet suffering its consequences.

You could try to argue its nor moral to treat gays different, but they you have to deny ALL of their problems

You just have gay favoritism

>I also said that anti-LGBT culture is getting more and more extreme as well
Mainstream, American / european, non muslim example please?

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>>8610836
>statistics are extreme
...... oooo.......kaaaaay?.....
>statistics dehumanize people
uhm, no they don't? They give raw data. And humans are resources, this doesn't mean they are dehumanized... Or are you saying all HR departments are dehumanizing? =)

>wanting culture to change is extreme
no its not. Everyone one is an extremist if you believe this, LITERALLY EVERYONE

and if everyone is an extremist, than extremist has no meaning.

Extremist would, ironically, just be human.

>we will be oppressed if you get in power!!!!
Why don't you practice what you preach and get faggots out of christian bakeries if you care so much? Also, christians are far more merciful and nice than what you think.

And you have no way to say for certain you will be oppressed

Beyond that, AGAIN, its your choice to be gay, so its not like you cant escape that.

>coexist
things cannot coexist if they are fundamentally opposed. And don't tell me about "love towards a human being", you know nothing about """love""", most of you interpret love as hate, and hate as love.

>>8610862
Proof is a bit of a subjective term, and I DID NOT ask for proof, I asked for a SINGLE GENETIC CORRELATION. Some would consider this proof, others not.

But I at least have correlations of posters in this thread, gay gene theorists have squat.

>hormones in the womb
Not sure what you mean about genes being expressed : do you mean hormones ALTER the genes? Because I know hormones can alter people to be homosexual : course, this theory would be invalid the minute you find a homo who didn't have the homo gene, at any point, any time, ever. At least it would say theres other causes.

>Straight people can also get sexual infections
not an argument. Why is a several fold risk acceptable to you?

At BEST, I would agree with you people shouldn't be premiscuous, because THAT rate is also elevated, but homosexuality is proven to have higher rates of promiscuity, aids.

>>8610862
>Straight people can also get sexual infections (cont)

Also, married virgin couples have a damn near non existient aids rate compared to homos.

AGAIN, why is it acceptable to have such a high aids rate?

>No. This is a good exercise for you to think critically
Ok, I thought critically and came to the conclusion you have no idea what you are talking about, and no argument, considering you have no willingness to put forth an argument, and have no solid logic.

>reading comp
You said it doesn't matter if the domestic violence rate was accurate

This implies you do not care that the domestic violence rate is high, implying you don't care about domestic violence.

What am I missing?

>>8610877
>Theres athiests who hate homosexuality too, you know
We live in a world that is shaped more or less by Abrahamic morals.
>married virgin couples
=)

>like the immense problems they cause
Such as?

>or that it fucks up family values
How?

>This was never about you
Maybe, but I'm trying to understand your point of view by applying it to myself, and I can't do that.

>Its not a husband, as you are not a wife.
Fine, call it a life-partner, I don't really care. Saying "Husband" is only meant to characterize the type of relationship that I'm striving for

>You just want a partner who will coddle / provide for you
Objectively wrong

>the fact you think homosexuality isn't harmful makes me doubt your mental stability
I don't think homosexuality itself is harmful. Current mainstream culture trends, however, are

>LGBT people are innocent
This was a typo, and you can see that I have corrected myself

>example please?
It's more of a prediction than a concrete example. I doubt, however, you will be the only person who believes in repression

>statistics are extreme
What I said is that you're going TO THE EXTREME of writing off homosexuality based on specific findings that may not be fundamental traits of homosexuality

>They give raw data
They give raw specific data, not the person behind data

>And humans are resources, this doesn't mean they are dehumanized
I literally said humans aren't JUST resources

>wanting culture to change is extreme
I said that wanting to invert extremism is again, extremism

>Why don't you practice what you preach
I try, but I can't represent whole community

>And you have no way to say for certain you will be oppressed
Didn't you say it would be okay to be denied a job based on homosexuality?

>things cannot coexist if they are fundamentally opposed
Completely logical. Realizing that the the opposition is arbitrary and unnecessary ensures coexistence

>its your choice to be gay
It literally isn't. My "choice" is not denying my nature

>>8610936
>married virgin couples have a damn near non existient aids rate compared to homos
Apples and pears.

>>8610926
>But I at least have correlations of posters in this thread
Dude, come on. A few people posting online does not prove a correlation.
>do you mean hormones ALTER the genes?
Hormones can modify gene expression, they can't alter the genes themselves. It's called epigenetics.

>Why is a several fold risk acceptable to you?
Why do you care? Like, what do you want to do, stop gay people from having sex? Because that isn't happening. The best and only thing you can do is educate more about safe sex.

>you have no willingness to put forth an argument
I have no willingness to spoonfeed you.

>implying you don't care about domestic violence.
Again, what the fuck do you want to do about it?
Why should the fact that some lesbians are abusive, affect lesbian couples who do not have domestic violence issues? It's like banning alcohol just because one asshole got drunk and crashed his car.

>>8611002
>>you have no willingness to put forth an argument
>I have no willingness to spoonfeed you.
This is why you lost the election.

>>8611010
I'm from New Zealand mate.

>>8611018
I didn't mean you personally.

>>8611038
If I could have voted, I don't know who'd I'd vote for because I didn't like either of them.

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>>8609190
Why would I care?

Why do you think there is a single person out there who genuinely gives a fuck anout your hatred for "lOl not the LGbT PEOPLE, JusT lGBt xd". Is that what you want from lofe? To get a bunch of people on /lgbt/ hooked on your bait?

>I REQUIRE VALID ARGUMENTS!

For what? You don't want a discussion, you know you won't listen, we know we won't convince you out of your stance - what's the fucking point? You have a small dick and want to show how much better than us you are? Jesus, you're baiting people on 4chan. Why is that some kind of a high ground for you?

Get your edgy Trump, edgy opinions, and fuck off. We've got bigger problems than 15 y.o. fucks with "I'm sooo original" attitude throwing theirnshit at people. Christ.

>>8611052
>>8611038

>>8610987
>shaped by abrahmic morals
like not killing people?
>virgins
This wasn't a subjective moral, this was objective fact that they have almost no aids, and that gays have tons more.

FACT, ok?

>such as
This is the last time I'm listing them.
-aids
-gay bowel syndrome (it still exists even if its not called this, except its called anal polyps, anal cancer, fecal incontinence, ect)
-mental illness
-higher drug use
-lack of offspring
This is just a few. And people who are athiest can take issue with this

China for instance doesn't support Christianity, but is anti gay : why do you think THIS is?

>how?
lack of making a family, for one, as well as causing family friction.

>applying it to myself, I can't do it
You are not married, hence it cannot apply to you, duh.
However, you can imagine if you were, and the horrible stuff you would put your wife and kids through if you left them to become a faggot

>relationship that I'm striving for
Are you striving for something realistic?.... I think not.

>I don't think homosexuality itself is harmful
CDC disagrees.

>This was a typo, and you can see that I have corrected myself
Where? So you acknowlege LGBT people are not innocent?

>specific findings
Till homosexuality can fix all of these issues, my stance will stay. And some of them they cannot fix, as its biological to end up with anal cancer / anal polyps, and have no offspring naturally.

>person behind data
The fuck does that even mean, and why would I care?

>I literally said humans aren't JUST resources
And I never said they WERE just resources, doesn't mean they are not resources.

>extremism
You are just using this as a label, I don't think many people against homosexuality want death camps or anything, and certainly I don't, so you have no argument.

Stop saying extremism, and start saying what you THINK is extremism, specifically, that I've said.

>whole community
Fair point.

>>8610987
>denied a job
This doesn't mean you cannot find a job. Jobs are always going to be availible, and you can always work hard enough people will hire you in spite of being gay.

Also, its YOUR CHOICE to do something BAD FOR YOU, this isn't worse than not hiring because someone is a drug addict.

>Realizing that the the opposition is arbitrary and unnecessary ensures coexistence
So homosexuals are arbitrary and unnecessary? Ok.

>My "choice" is to allow a fat dick in my ass
FTFY.

And thats what I mean by gay, I don't mean having temptation, I mean doing the ACT.

>>8610995
Yes, one is an apple which is clean, another is an aids infested pear.

>>8611002
>not prove correlation
I've heard it countless times, as have others, that homosexuals have rough families or have been molested : its common to hear even in gay bars this kind of story

how much would you need to see before you think there might be some validity?

>Gene expression
What the fuck does that even mean?

>why do you care
you say you think homosexuals aren't dangerous in your opinion. This is only possible if you find several fold aids rate acceptable

Why do you find aids rate acceptable?

Quit dodging the question, faggot.

>stop gay people from having sex? Because that isn't happening.
Yes, and actually it is possible, and is much easier if you are willing. But you refuse because some reason : I guess you are OK with all its problems, and don't mind being oppressed

Oh wait, you don't want to be "oppressed"

but oh wait, you don't want to change yourself to NOT be "oppressed", nor can you make an argument for why homosexuality is valid.

This is why I view you as mentally ill.

>spoonfeed
You cannot complain in the slightest on my opinion and then refuse to try and convince me with a good argument, without not having an argument, and ignoring the fact you have no argument.

>Again, what the fuck do you want to do about it?
Remove the common risk factor

>>8611130
Well, good luck with your crusade. I hope dedicating your life to stopping gay people fucking will be a satisfying one.

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>>8611002
>alchohol
its use in excess is the problem, but even alcohol has benefits to it

homosexuality has far less benefits compared to problems.

>>8611010
>>8611018
>>8611038
>>8611052
Trumps callous and a bit rude, but hes getting shit done

hes a hard ass, I like him =)

>>8611070
>why would I care
Great question, what made you post if you didn't care? =D maybe you care in that you hate that I'm invalidating you guys.

Its actually funny, trannies especially NEED validation, but never seem to be able to just """be"""" valid

If you are valid to begin with, you never need to be validated =D

>you don't want discussion
You clearly didn't read the thread, I've had pretty good discussions tonight!!!

>can't convince me
You also cannot convince people that water is bad to give to babies : because its a shitty argument. This doesn't mean the person is closed minded, it means your argument is shit, or non existent.

> We've got bigger problems
Like aids scares, abuse, drug addictions, whoring out to pay for hormones, and crying how your alone and are depressed?

Because if you fixed your LGBT status, that might help.

>>8611147
I'm pretty satisfied I was able to help who I was in this thread. I'm also satisfied to piss of the political homos

>>8611099
>like not killing people?
Yes. Are you implying that abrahamic morals must be either entirely good or entirely bad with nothing in between?

>they have almost no aids
Neither does virgin gay couple

>list
STIs and GBS is more prevalent, but I doubt any of those are exclusive to homosexuals.

>causing family friction
I can argue that families cause friction for not accepting gays

>China
They were cool with it, until westernization

>You are not married... However, you can imagine if you were
Exactly, I don't want anyone to suffer, including myself

>CDC disagrees
Finish the sentence that you quoted for this one

>Where?
>>8610843

>anal cancer / anal polyps
Fair enough I suppose, but why should anyone be bothered that I'm potentially trading my physical health for emotional satisfaction?

>no offspring naturally
Appealing to nature and it shouldn't be a problem if homosexual couple is sane enough

>The fuck does that even mean
I meant that HIV statistics, for example, don't take into account the shady aspect of gay dating and hookups. If there wasn't any discrimination, maybe gays would be less inclined to make risky decisions.
Also,people could be educated about whole fetish group that intentionally transmits HIV, maybe there would be less infections.

>And I never said they WERE just resources
No, but biggest issues you seem to have with LGBT are health problems and that they're "a waste".

>specifically, that I've said
Forcing homosexuals into repression or being treated as 2nd class citizens (or that's the vibe I get because I skimmed through the thread).

>drug addict
Drug addict is a direct liability, similarly to a drunk person in a bar, which you used as a parallel before. I understand your viewpoint but it's not exactly the same.

>So homosexuals are arbitrary and unnecessary?
No. The existence of opposition between the two sides is. Are you bamboozling me now?

>fat dick
I prefer average

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>>8611230
>are you implying
I'm just saying rather than bitch about it being biblical, give reason why its shitty.

>virgin gay couples
First off, these are a meme and barely exist
second, gays are way more promiscuous
third, all the other shit gay people have as problems

>not exclusive to homosexuals
and death isn't exclusive to a shotgun blast to the face

This isn't an argument to say "but straight people get it too!!!"

Its NOT, an argument.

>not accepting gays
The fact you are demanding they accept such a bad thing proves gays are the ones causing friction.

>westernization
Christianity and Islam is still illegal in china AFAIK. Not saying neither exist, but they are UNDERGROUND at best : you can be arrested for running a church there

but you know...abrahmic religions nshit

>Exactly, I don't want anyone to suffer
You mean like the children and wife of a closet gay man?

Oh wait, its cool if they suffer.

>CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html
And pic related.

>misquote
Fair enough, but they aren't innocent when it comes to them being disliked for being gay : they directly commit what causes it.

>but why should anyone be bothered that I'm potentially trading my physical health for emotional satisfaction?
As soon as you demand anybody to pay for your healthcare, for one.

Also it wears at the fabric of society so long as you are PART of the fabric of society.

>apppeal to nature
not really, its a statistical issue : having a person partake in society and its benefits is wasteful if this person does not then raise children to benefit the next generation.

Fair enough, but I would argue even if there WAS a push for monogymous faggotry, fags would laugh outloud at it

Why do you think they are so promiscuous anyway?

>willingly spreading aids
Ok, so I know I said I wasn't for killing gays, but this is an exception : kill these fuckers in the streets with machetes for all I care

....or, well, fire...fire is safer for preventing aids spreading

>>8611230
>biggest issue
Your words, not mine.

My biggest issues are aids, and mental health issues.

>2nd class citizen
Even first class citizens are meant to obey social norms : I'm stating that homosexuality should not be a social norm.

>drugs aren't the same
Its not much different, really, you have many problems from it, and the reason they don't stop is cause they feel the NEED to do it, and resisting is not fun.

in that way, they are exactly the same

>No. The existence of opposition between the two sides is
And opposition is inherent to 2 incompatible ideas....deja vu.

Please don't start going in circular logic with me =(

>average
wasn't a serious comment, but ok.

>>8611130
>this isn't worse than not hiring because someone is a drug addict.
Being a drug addict would have a direct impact on someone's ability to do their job. Being gay doesn't.

>>8611282
>Being a drug addict would have a direct impact on someone's ability to do their job.
How?

>>8611282
You've never heard of a functional drug addict have you?

>being gay doesn't
if your job involves working with the public, and the public doesn't want a faggot, yes it does.

also if you cause social tension, yes it does.

>>8609283
>I suppose if I had to rank my risks to society per person in terms of risk levels, it would be transgenderism
Stopped even giving you a chance right here. You're declaring 0.03% of the population to be the biggest threat TO SOCIETY of any legbutts. Absurd.

Like, maybe if we had the power Jews had or whatever. Which we don't. Snore.

I'm also not insane. After skimming a bunch of the rest, I'd say your mental health is in far worse shape than mine.

To get to your inane definition requirement, "man" is a pretty imprecise term; I consider it a word for a gender identity and a sex role, but you probably consider it interchangeable with "male." That works about 99.7% of the time, but they don't actually mean the same thing. There are distinctions between genetic sex, the phenotypical expression of those genetics, the sexed aspects of your neurology, the subjective experience of said neurology and your resulting sense of gender identity, your presentation of your gender identity, and your societal sex role (depending on what sex others perceive you to be and if you "pass" for your birth sex or the opposite sex). But we could probably be here all fucking day while you natter inanely about how "you'll never change your chromosomes, anon."

Oh, and then there's comparing queers to addicts! It surprises me not a whit that you admit to a porn addiction yourself; people who are "ex-/repressed" gays tend to be sex addicts, and they tend to project that onto other queers. I'm a whole person without having sex with anybody else or watching porn, anon. Your problems aren't mine.

You're just not very bright, on the whole, and not really worth the effort to debate you.

>>8611282
Hiring or firing someone should always be at the discretion of the employer, and as written in the contract. Whatever the reasons. End of story.

>>8611300
Can't read well can you?
Let me make it easier

>I suppose if I had to rank my risks to society per person in terms of risk levels, it would be transgenderism
>if I had to rank my risks to society per person in terms of risk levels
>risks to society per person in terms of risk levels
>risks to society per person
This means that you take 100 lesbians, 100 gays, 100 trannies, and 100 bisexuals, drop them off, then watch what is damaged : transexualism wins, hands down.

>man means a type of gender identity
and why should gender identity dictate which bathroom is used, and not sex?

Why should I give a fuck about gender expression?

>Oh, and then there's comparing queers to addicts!
So? The comparison works, doesn't it?
Your just mad that I compared them, you don't have a problem with the logic. You are just butthurt.

> It surprises me not a whit that you admit to a porn addiction yourself; people who are "ex-/repressed" gays tend to be sex addicts, and they tend to project that onto other queers.
Wow, amazing projection and attacking there : I only mentioned porn addiction to EMPATHIZE with a guy who suffered the same, to inform him hes not alone. Are you saying that guy, or any homosexual whos porn addicted isn't a whole person?

Don't you think this is kinda bigoted?

>not really worth the effort to debate you.
Which is why you made a lengthy post and read through a ton of my posts to get sensitive information about me lel.

>>8611313
I agree. It has its faults, granted, but I prefer the faults of shitty imployers firing people for personal reasons to being unable to fire someone.

Besides, vote with your dollar rule applies. its why I don't shop at starbucks. That and there protean shit is chock full of soy which makes you a faggot.

>>8611294
>>8611284
>How?
>You've never heard of a functional drug addict have you?
There are high functioning drug addicts out there, but for the majority of people, drug addiction impedes their ability to work at a sufficient level, so it at least makes sense to discriminate on that basis.
>if your job involves working with the public, and the public doesn't want a faggot, yes it does.
I see your point, but in 99% of cases, people are either not going to know, or are not going to give a shit. Unless it's like a government position or something.
>also if you cause social tension, yes it does.
Why would it? You could flip that around and say that homophobic people are the ones causing social tension, and stop hiring them instead.

>>8611258
>give reason why its shitty
Because, I don't think there's an objective reason to hate homosexuals who aren't a living stereotype.

>Its NOT an argument
How so? I mean, I legitimately don't understand. I mean, physical ills obviously come from anal sex, but anal sex isn't restricted only to gays and for mental illnesses, couldn't the part of the problem be society's bad opinion (based on stereotypes) of gay population?

>demanding they accept such a bad thing
Why does it have to be a bad thing? I still see nothing inherently wrong with unconventional physical and emotional love

>Christianity and Islam is still illegal in china AFAIK
Westernization that occurred during first contacts with China and West. The pre-communism one, not the more recent ones.

>It's cool if they suffer
My whole point is that it isn't. I personally don't want to subject myself to a torture which I'm unsure if I'll endure for the rest of my life and potentially make others suffer because of my homosexuality.

>CDC
Again, not every gay man is a living stereotype

>they directly commit what causes it
What exactly? Being gay? I mean, does that REALLY outweigh everything else related to them?
I'm not referring to xirs here, I'm talking about the average person who happens to be from LGBT population.

>monogymous faggotry
So you're telling me that I'm THE only fag that want's a monogamous relationship? I find it hard to believe.

>kill these fuckers
It's a dangerous fetish that should be sanctioned, I agree.

>Your words, not mine.
>I think its bad for society, family, mental health, physical health, and is a massive waste of resources
Literally your words right there
cont.

>>8611335
>homosexuality should not be a social norm
But it CAN'T be a social norm because it's a minority of population. That minority shouldn't be discriminated against because of that

>they are exactly the same
If you look at it that way, they are. But, drugs affect health much more consistently than homosexuality does.

>And opposition is inherent to 2 incompatible ideas
Those two ideas aren't incompatible because no person can be exclusively straight and gay at the same time; there isn't a point sexual intersection between those two ideas about sexual intercourse. If the one side didn't care about the other (as, imo, should be), there would be no opposition.

>public doesn't want a faggot
Again, if the public didn't care, LGBT person wouldn't be a liability.

>>8611327
Sack of hammers.

>>8611331
An employer getting to use personal reasons in their own company isn't a fault.

>>8611333
And a vast majority of homosexuals suffer issues in life which are partly because of them being homosexual.

Also, how can we say this doesn't apply to homosexual if its illegal to fire gays for being homosexual?

Can't even get data on it...

>people are either not going to know, or are not going to give a shit
and if they do, it will

>Why would it? You could flip that around and say that homophobic people are the ones causing social tension
This happens actually : but homophobia doesn't have problems besides pissing homos and homo supporters off.

homosexuality has lots more cons, though.

>>8611335
>aren't a living stereotype
interesting, but a sad fact is, dealing with society always deals with macro-data. You can either allow homosexuality and all its faults, or not

You can split hairs, but this gets exponentially more messy, less effective, and more frustrating the more specific you get.

>how so
You argued that such issues aren't exclusive : Your logic is anything which is not exclusive to a group is not a bad thing.

This is not an argument.

>Why does it have to be a bad thing?
I already listed all the health effects and emotional effects :
Aids, GBS, abuse, drugs, mental illness ect....

Don't forget, this time, it makes you look even more mentally ill.

>Westernization that occurred during first contacts with China and West
and how would this religious dogma pass on if the religious dogma is banned? Perhaps they have other reasons for hating homos.

>I personally don't want to subject myself to a torture
Rembmer, we are talking about ALREADY MARRIED WITH KIDS PEOPLE : once you make such a decision, your "rights" are reduced in favor of your children

Parents SHOULD suffer if it helps their kids do better in life.

>stereotypes
Stereotypes don't matter, statistics do.

unless you have a more precise statistic and a reasonable way to target said statistic, theres nothing more to say.

>>8611335
>outweigh
just because someone donates to charity does not mean their problems are gone. This is a non argument. Especially since sexual choices can be changed. Better question is, WHY NOT CHANGE???

>monogymous
theres more than 2 people on this earth who are born with 2 different colored eyes.

This DOES NOT make it common

t. someone with different colored eyes =)

>agreement
good. I only wish san franciso agreed. Part of the reason I hate that city.

>literally my words
nowhere did I say it being a waste of resources was my BIGGEST issue, infact it was the last on the list, which denotes least importance, in my mind.

>>8611338
Its a social norm if its pushed as normal, and not abnormal in society

and currently it is.

>If you look at it that way, they are. But, drugs affect health much more consistently than homosexuality does.
Fine, compare it to tobacco / weed.

Then I would argue its more dangerous.

>Those two ideas aren't incompatible
being homosexual, and thinking homosexuality is bad for society / health is opposed

>Again, if the public didn't care, LGBT person wouldn't be a liability.
Typically this only occurs when LGBT values are pushed by force : average person doesn't care for LGBT people unless they are scared of consequences.

>>8611346
Except you don't support me suing starbucks if I worked there and got fired for being homophobic do you?

This is hypocrisy.

>>8611374
>And a vast majority of homosexuals suffer issues in life which are partly because of them being homosexual.
Gee, I wonder why.
Nothing that should impede their ability to work though, generally speaking.

>and if they do, it will
As long as they are professional, and good at their job, people aren't going to give a shit about the orientation of their accountant, lawyer, waiter, plumber etc etc.

>Parents SHOULD suffer if it helps their kids do better in life.
Yikes. I would not want to live in that household with two miserable parents. I'd rather they divorced.

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Imagine repressing something so hard that you end up defending your position for hours on an anonymous online image board, trying to rationalize your own stupid uniformed viewpoint which is based in zero (0) evidence to complete strangers on the internet

Kek I can just tell you are a pathetic beta by the way you type, kys yourself faggot

>>8611410
>why
because its risky and self destructive

>generally speaking
same for being "homophobic". Except nobody needs sick days for aids with being homophobic.

>As long as they are professional, and good at their job, people aren't going to give a shit about the orientation
opinion

>Yikes. I would not want to live in that household with two miserable parents
>rather they divorced
did you have divorced parents? I did...I woulda rather they stayed together.

And you forget, raising a child is a source of immense happyness, you throw away that just to take it up the ass

>>8611429
>uninformed
what am I not informed on?
>0 evidence
CDC isn't evidence?

>>8611440
>because its risky and self destructive
I was making a dig at you, implying that people like you are the cause of many of these issues.

>same for being "homophobic"
I wasn't serious about that.

>opinion
Not really.

>did you have divorced parents? I did...I woulda rather they stayed together.
>And you forget, raising a child is a source of immense happyness, you throw away that just to take it up the ass
No, I did not, and sorry that you went through that. I don't know your situation, but maybe it would've been worse for you had they stayed together. It definitely would for kids whose parents are deeply unhappy in the relationship. I don't think you can be a good parent in a mental state like that.

>>8611440
How dare you speak to me


This is an anime image board i don't give a shit to talk to u, would be like talking to a toddler about rocket science, who kept repeating that you couldn't get to the moon because 'rockets don't work that way!'. In both cases, your stupid opinion will never go anywhere beyond your own frothy-mouthed ramblings kek, nothing I could say would be as bad as your life already is.

>>8611476
There ARE many causes for things, just like theres many causes of PTSD, or a broken leg.

>wasn't serious
Then make it obvious its a joke. I cannot tell, because half your stuff sounds like a joke.

>not really
Any single person who would fire a good worker for being gay proves you wrong

and they exist

>No, I did not, and sorry that you went through that. I don't know your situation, but maybe it would've been worse for you had they stayed together. It definitely would for kids whose parents are deeply unhappy in the relationship. I don't think you can be a good parent in a mental state like that.
I appreciate the sentiment. I really do : divorce is an unspoken tragedy.

Deep unhappyness can very, very often be made easier without divorce, and can easily be tolerated if you focus on the bright side

Divorce robs you of a loving PAIR of parents, it robs you of seeing how men and women interact, and it makes it difficult to value both mother and father equally.

If you care for a child, do not divorce.

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>>8611477
Someones butthurt, aren't they?

=)


Certainly doesn't make your case your only "argument" is spewing insults and profanity.

You sound like a MTF tranny, I knew one and they talked a lot like you and got mad easy.

Am I right?

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>>8611489
*FTM. Sorry, correction

Alphabet soup is so hard to keep straight, especially when its the LGBT

>>8610530
>I've never seen any studies on conversion therapy, strangely...perhaps because they work.
Are you literally retarded OP? Do you not know how to google search?

http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-whether-conversion-therapy-can-alter-sexual-orientation-without-causing-harm/

Like seriously OP, if you cannot even be bothered to google such basic things, how can you feel any confidence whatsoever in the strong positions you make in this thread? How can you be so willfully fucking retarded? I legitimately do not understand how people like you exist.

>>8611489
Kek
Enjoy your life faggot

>>8611482
>Any single person who would fire a good worker for being gay proves you wrong
Oh no, I meant the clients/customers. And while there will be SOME people out there who'd give enough of a shit to do something about it, the vast majority don't care about their accountant's sex life.

>If you care for a child, do not divorce.
It is unfortunate, and I think parents should do everything they can to try and make things work, but there are circumstances where I think divorce is the best option. It'd be worse for a kid to watch his parents fighting all the time.

>>8611496
>>8611496
Neato, appreciate you actually sourcing something. Let me read it

Well, it seems to me maybe the 1 study which concluded it works was using an EFFECTIVE form of CT.

It would be good to look into this more, to examine how this method works, and what is more / less effective, perfect the practice, so to speak.

...except the source on that one has mysteriously been scrubbed....Interesting.

Its almost as if there's suppression of information.

Which is shockingly common from the LGBT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naE6GADgAKo&lc=z13wwfhypwugczldo22jivuz3yencbzpx04.1500575084640753

I'm inclined to think institutions are promoting homosexuality, for some reason, as studies are discouraged due to "homophobia" quite often

>>8611508
>Oh no, I meant the clients/customers
I wouldn't want a gay doctor.

>divorce best option
short of a psychopathic spouse, no.

and if you get to that, why did you marry a psychopath???

>>8611497
Look its the tranny calling a repressed guy a faggot.

>>8611521
>this ONE study that supports conversion therapy was totally legit and used the One True Conversion therapy... if only those blasted Gay demons didn't erase the data!
>the 12 other studies showing that it fucks kids up, and 36 studies showing its useless, are all garbage!
>Gay agenda rambling
You fucking mongoloid. The study is out there, it was not purged, fucking GOOGLE the study's TITLE you absolute retard. It's behind paywalls.

Not only that but this ONE study that argues efficacy for gay conversion therapy was literally written by the guy who pioneered gay conversion therapy. If we're gonna talk about bias, how can you ignore that?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-gay-therapy-should-die-with-its-pioneer-dr-joseph-nicolosi


Your wall of delusion is baffling. Get your goddamn head out of your ass.

>>8611546
Maybe, maybe not anon : hard to say since the only one supporting it was removed

I want to at LEAST read it, to see if there's ANYTHING valid to the study, but this cannot be done.

As for having bias, bias matters little compared to truth

I don't care how biased something is, so long as it holds truth and isn't dishonest.

this is the most pathetic example of internalised homophobia ive ever seen lol

>>8611562
It's not hard to say at all! Conversion therapy is fucking quackery! You are desperately holding on to a position that has been completely smashed by all the evidence and clinical wisdom of the past fucking century! How can you expect me to take absolutely anything you say seriously when you refuse to remove your head from your ass?

It was NOT removed. Here is the abstract.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10932560

If you want to go behind a paywall to read a study written by a guy who is a thoroughly discredited quack, be my guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnBBqYFGKB8

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Trump is a pretty cool guy. All the sugar and salt in the cuck tears are making me obese though.

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>Arguing with this dude

You can't win, no matter how much evidence you show, he will always go but-if-what if to justify his hate.

It's fucking hilarious, especially because of the HIV panic.

>>8609510
>And beyond that, homosexual men who don't engage in anal is a meme : they practically do not exist
As I said, you really know nothing of these matters, you're just an idiot who thinks he's very smart.

>>8611644
I love how all the homophobic dudes seem to be the one that know most about gay sex.

Truly, virgin straight dudes who live in their mom basement are the one that know the most about reality gay faces and they are one that should cast a judgment.

>>8611258
Now post the straight dudes stat.

What about father who lock their daughters into their basement and breed with them?
What about alcholist, trailer trash mothers?
What about the fact straight couples are on average worse parents than gay couples?
What about an entire continent infested with AIDS, Africa?
What about the tendency of every country in which straight men are in charge to marry young girl to old men?

>>8609335
Except 2015 and and 2005 are the same shit. DO you understand what Equality means?

>>8610192
All I said was that it's stupid to expect pay without work and have people take you seriously whether it was chosen or not. Those that put the effort blend in with the rest of society and cause no harm.

>>8611590
if its quackery, why did it effectively work with me?

I find it ridiculous people say homosexual urges are literally impossible to resist when people do it every single day. Infact half your movement is getting them "out of the closet".

And typically they are harassed / coerced to do so.

another thing to consider, is conversion therapy doesn't work if the person doesn't repress : its like say treatment for skitzo doesn't work if the person skips their meds

>>8611642
>You can't win, no matter how much evidence you show, he will always go but-if-what if to justify his hate.

an appeal to authority is not evidence. and this is half of what this is.

>>8611644
no, gays typically don't engage in just oral : the 1/3rd of gays who did, statistically, I'm sure are """straight""" men who prefer women, but got their dick sucked by a faggot

>>8611656
>I love how all the homophobic dudes seem to be the one that know most about gay sex.
it helps to research and know the enemy.

>straight dude stats
Those are not disproportionately in straight folks, nor is there a correlation like homosexuality. At best you can argue people in broken families have issues
>gay couples better
citation needed
>aids africa
this is because black people
>marry young girls
its a good way to ensure a responsible husband.

>>8611664
its not, people should reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE.

>>8611701
I can agree with this, but most homos DONT attempt to blend in, and certainly trannies dont.

Also, you gotta be joking when you say all the statisitcs on LGBT aren't harmful.

>>8613031
>Those are not disproportionately in straight folks, What does it even mean?

>citation needed
It's what happens when you go through a veto proceed to adopt. Sorry, your trailer park junkie is a shit mother.

>this is because black people
Which are straight.

>its a good way to ensure a responsible husband.
Of course you are a pedophile.
Oh, I forgot about underage sex tourism entirely fueled by straight dudes. Good job straight guys.

>>8613031
>I find it ridiculous people say homosexual urges are literally impossible to resist when people do it every single day
People not acting on attraction doesn't mean they don't feel them, moron.

Just like when you see a girl and you don't act on it, doesn't mean you are not straight.

>its not, people should reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE.
I don't think you understand what "equality" means. It means being treated as everyone else, which means not getting discriminated when it comes to food. Telling people off because they are gay is not "equality". You are one of these morons who just annoyed you can't ignore gays anymore.

>>8611590
By the way, one extremely important thing to keep in mind is DEFINITION

YOU define homosexuality is having urges sexually towards men on any level, weather acted on or not

I define it as commiting homosexual actions

So depending on definitions, yes, effectiveness of CT will vary. But you guys seem OBSESSIVE about "you must do how you feel" and "resisting your feelings is bad" with absolutely no reasoning behind it

Care to explain why its bad to resist feelings when the actions would cause you harm?

>>8613108
>I define it as commiting homosexual actions
Well, your definition is wrong. Just like your english.

>>8613108
By the way, one extremely important thing to keep in mind is DEFINITION

YOU define heterosexuality is having urges sexually towards women on any level, weather acted on or not

I define it as commiting heterosexual actions

So depending on definitions, yes, effectiveness of CT will vary. But you guys seem OBSESSIVE about "you must do how you feel" and "resisting your feelings is bad" with absolutely no reasoning behind it

Care to explain why its bad to resist feelings when the actions would cause you harm?

>>8613108
>Care to explain why its bad to resist feelings when the actions would cause you harm?
? I'm gay. Having sex with men cause no harm to me.

Denying my attraction causes harm to me and causes me emotional pain.


Do you posses empathy?

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>>8613108
>I define it as commiting homosexual actions
Do you think people commit homosexual actions for shit and giggle without urges and feelings toward it?

Are /pol/tard retarded or what?

>>8613095
You can't find a correlation of this kind of behavior effecting straights MORE. Best correlation is to broken families, or in the case of aids, being black (or gay but we know that)

>its what happens
AGAIN, citation needed

>black people which are straight

Non argument. Statistically straights have less aids

its not an issue with white or asains which are straight, but is with whites or Asians who are gay

So the constants are being black or gay.

>pedophile
You didn't exactly state a specific age, so I'm blaming you for that : that would be an issue with islam, not other places really. But marrying a daughter at a higher age like 16 or whatever to an older guy seems fine, better than letting your daughter go fuck whoever she wants and get STDs like a slut.

>fueled by straight dudes
You mean pedophiles which are trying to become part of the LGBT? =)

>>8613104
>People not acting on attraction doesn't mean they don't feel them
Agreed, but why should I give a damn about if people feel things more than if they do things?

Nobody ever hated someone for being a closet homo, besides homos out of the closet. And people can successfully be in the closet all their lives, so whats your excuse?

Just gotta not stop repressing, and avoid stuff encouraging the behavior, just like any other bad activity which is tempting

>Just like when you see a girl and you don't act on it, doesn't mean you are not straight.
Difference is, I don't try to deny I'm attracted to them, don't resist it, and don't fight the urges : something I've actually done before because of mental abuse, and it was actually incredibly effective at making me find them less attractive in all but the most explicit circumstances

In short, the more you normalize feeling a certain way, the less repressed it will be.

But you want to normalize it, and therefore, aren't even trying to repress.

>It means being treated as everyone else\
LGBT aren't like everyone else though

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>>8613155
>You didn't exactly state a specific age
Ahah, no. I specifically said young girls

Here you go guys, the pedos who wants to marry young girls exposes himself. No wonder he hates gays, he probably think they want to take his baby brides away.

>>8613155
>You can't find a correlation of this kind of behavior effecting straights MORE.
What does it even means?

>AGAIN, citation needed
Weird, I thought you studied your enemies? Don't you know about all the studies and veto process?


>Non argument. Statistically straights have less aids
Statistically, there is an entire continent full of straight people full of AIDS. Oh, let's not forget all the disease straight people carried through history. Syphilis? How many STD did you guys spread?


> that would be an issue with islam
Nope, it's an issue in many countries like brazil and Africa. Do you know about harem of Africa war lords with 10 years old girls? Do you know the younger pregnancy is something like 10 years old?
Heck, 4chan itself is full of pedos, just check out /tv/, all those thread about young actress and how lolicon is a mainstream movement in anime and manga.

>You mean pedophiles which are trying to become part of the LGBT? =)
This doesn't address my issue and simply deflects it. Thailand made a business of underage sex fueled by straight dudes.

>>8613104
What is your moral argument on not ignoring gays again?

how is it better than entering a business without a shirt?

>>8613122
>definition is wrong
Subjective but ok : Very well, for the record, I honestly don't give a damn about """"homosexuals""" who do not act on it, I care about ACTIVE homosexuals

As do most people

>Having sex with men cause no harm to me.
It causes anal tearing, cancer risk, and other crap, and mental illness rates to be higher

>causes me emotional pain.
So does almost everything in life, you need a stronger argument than that, less you want to justify half of all murders because "I was in emotional pain".

>Do you posses empathy
I do, and I understand its painful, but that does not justify it,

I can empathize someone feeling pain, but still disprove their actions.

>Do you think people commit homosexual actions for shit and giggle without urges and feelings toward it?
Not willingly, usually no

Do you think its impossible for someone to RESIST urges?

>>8613164
>young girls
>young could mean anything from 4 to 20

Ok?

Could of said like, prepubescent, or something, would of been more clear.

>wants to marry young girls
I wouldn't mind marrying an 18 year old.

Also, you realize I'm not a muslim right?

>>8613031
Dude, why do you believe that you're doing anything more than exposing your simple-minded cowardice, cruelty, and arrogant denying of any truth that doesn't fit your agenda ?

>>8613155
>Agreed, but why should I give a damn about if people feel things more than if they do things?
This is not a sentence that makes sense.

>Nobody ever hated someone for being a closet homo,
What the fuck does it even mean? People in the closet still have gay sex, they just don't tell people about it because parental situation on don't feel ready.

> And people can successfully be in the closet all their lives, so whats your excuse?
Straight dudes can spend their life celibate, what's your excuse?

>Just gotta not stop repressing, and avoid stuff encouraging the behavior, just like any other bad activity which is tempting
Repressing the definition of bad activity.

>Difference is, I don't try to deny I'm attracted to them, don't resist it, and don't fight the urges
You should resist these urges.

>LGBT aren't like everyone else though
Yes they are.

>>8613183
>mental illness rates to be higher
Ahah, no fucking idiots. Mental illness is causes by people like you and only you.

That's right, when people like you will die out, and it will be soon, mental illness for homosexual will die down.

>>8613183
>What is your moral argument on not ignoring gays again?
It's discrimination and not equallity.


>how is it better than entering a business without a shirt?
False equivalence. You are not smart.

>It causes anal tearing, cancer risk, and other crap, and
So straight sex. Most things we do daily cause us arms.


>mental illness rates to be higher
Unrelated to sex and related to homophobia.

>So does almost everything in life,
Another false equivalence. You are not very smart, aren't you?

>I do, and I understand its painful, but that does not justify it,
No you do not. Not only you approve on conversion therapy but you also an homophobe that would shun active homosexual. You are, for all intent and purpose, a monster who loves to make people hard for something they have no fault.

>Not willingly, usually no
What?

>Do you think its impossible for someone to RESIST urges?
Do you think straight men should resist their straight urges?

>Ok?
Nope. I said YOUNG and GIRLS. It's obviously about 12-13 years old. You know, young girls. Which you apparently like.

>>8613176
>what does this mean
I talked about aids and other issues drastically effecting gays more

You mention these things

You have no evidence to suggest straights do this at a higher rate of homosexuals, or that its a mental illness problem with straights.

Its an anecdotal attack on straights, based on people who grew up in broken families.

>Weird, I thought you studied your enemies?
I do, and I've seen the opposite in everything I've read

So to prove you aren't lying, please show a citation

>Statistically, there is an entire continent full of straight people full of AIDS
Statistically aids would vanish in 50 years if we killed every single homosexual and drug user. Harsh, but true.

>Syphilis? How many STD did you guys spread?
For marrier monogymous couples?
virtually none.

By the way...
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/why-hiv-syphilis-and-gonorrhea-are-rising-among-homosexuals
You faggots spread syphilus just as much if not more, per capita.

>africa
How many of these war lords are white?

>his doesn't address my issue and simply deflects it. Thailand made a business of underage sex fueled by straight dudes.
Isn't it the LGBT who says pedophiles are attracted to kids, and not adults, and not even a preffered gender? And that people raping little boys are pedos, NOT gays?

If I accept that argument, that a tiny percentage of "straights" do sex tourism, will YOU admit that a pretty significant amount of homos rape little boys?

Sounds fair to me.

>>8613164
>>8613155
>>8613095
No surprise the dude is a pedo, most /pol/tard are.

They love young girl because they are "pure" and believe in stuff like arranged marriage. They also think you can get STD even if you are not a moron.

>>8613219
Pedophilia and homophobia often go hand-in-hand, you know. Because young gay kids are often isolated because of people like you, they make easy targets for pedophiles.

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>>8613219
>How many of these war lords are white?
Oh so now we care whatever they are white or not.

An entire continent full of straight dudes spreading AIDS and marrying young girls, but it doesn't matter because they are black.

>>8613219
>I do, and I've seen the opposite in everything I've read
Nope, you didn't.

>Statistically aids would vanish in 50 years if we killed every single homosexual and drug user. Harsh, but true.
Statistically, most gay people issues would vanish if we killed every people like you. hard, but true.

Also your post is literally not true, as straight dudes would continue to spread AIDS.

>For marrier monogymous couples?
Nice deflection. We are talking about straight people, not your imaginary definition of it.

>You faggots spread syphilus just as much if not more, per capita.
Ahah, nice try. 2000+ years of history and you dudes spread every single disease imaginable. Oh, and don't forget when you started to bread among each other a couple of century ago causing half of Europe nobility to be retarded.

>How many of these war lords are white?
How many are straight?

>Sounds fair to me.
Ahah, no. You guys have FUELED a tourism based on HAVING SEX WITH YOUNG girls. You are disgusting!

>>8613185
>simple minded
I'd like to think I try to be open minded. I respond to every post pretty much
>cruelty
apathy is more applicable, I don't want to go out of my way to cause pain, but I'm not cowardly about causing pain if it ends up helping people : just like anyone with a moral compass should be.

> arrogant denying of any truth
Example? You know the studies on CT focused on """self acceptance""" as a form of happiness right?

This means anyone trying to lose weight is less happy than someone who is a fat fuck who doesn't want to lose weight

>>8613188
Why should I care MORE about a person having a TEMPTATION to do something, which can be resisted

Than if they actually DO what is tempting?

>the fuck does it even mean? People in the closet still have gay sex
I mean people who have repressed homosexual urges. Also, I wouldn't consider that being in the closet, I would consider that living a double life

But to be clear, what I mean by """"closet homo"""" is someone who has homo feeling, but denies them

Also, its very arrogant to assume all closet homos are having sex

>Straight dudes can spend their life celibate, what's your excuse?
Because heterosexuality isn't as harmful?

Also gay people don't need to be celibate, they can still have sex with the opposite sex especially if married.

>Repressing the definition of bad activity.
No it is not.

>You should resist these urges.
Why? Theres no heavily increased aids rate, and I plan to have kids

Whats your argument why I should repress?

>Yes they are.
Not every other male has sex with men, not every other woman has sex with women, not every other person mutilates their body, takes hormones and denies their born sex. You are NOT like everyone else.

>>8613193
>caused by you
Please provide any study showing a healthy mental illness readout with no drug abuse, alchohol use, or other psychological anomalies

>die out
Reality never dies anon. .

>>8613274
>Why should I care MORE about a person having a TEMPTATION to do something, which can be resisted
Most "temptations" can be resisted.

>I mean people who have repressed homosexual urges.
These are not in the closet. These are repressed. Which it's harmful and unhealthy.

>Also, its very arrogant to assume all closet homos are having sex
You don't even know what closet homo means.

>Because heterosexuality isn't as harmful?
It is. You spread disease, do drugs, do alcohol. Do you know about how much a mother can hurt her child in the whomb? Do you know how much bad, unsupervised heterosexual parents can fuck a child?

>Also gay people don't need to be celibate, they can still have sex with the opposite sex especially if married.
Yes, having sex while not enjoying it.

>No it is not.
it is.

>Why? Theres no heavily increased aids rate, and I plan to have kids
You are homophonic and closet minded. You need to die before you can fuck a kid.

Also your female partner could have AIDS which would lead to you spreading it.

>You are NOT like everyone else
Yes, we are.

>Please provide any study
The study is called reality in which I live. People like you should just kill yourself and stop causing psychological damage on people.

>Reality never dies anon. .
You will. Probably of AIDS while having sex with your wife who is banging Jamal on the side.

>>8609283
Do you not notice how you've just generalised a bunch of people, typed highly subjective and completely unfounded opinions presented as fact, and assumed that all gays/lebians/transgenders act identically?

Get off your soapbox, mate. You aren't gay or shit; you just have some narcissitic god complex and live in a deluded fantasy where you are an individual and every other person on the world can be neatly and objectively organised into a number of set categories, which you then order based on how much use that person can be to you with minimum input back into their lives. Even your nondescript "LGBT" feelings are probably just the tiny shred of self awareness left in your subconscious trying to get you to see from the LGBT point of view so that you might actually realise that most other people are, like you, nuanced and complex individuals that are vastly different from one another and not just robots that act as your means to an end.

>>8613274
Of course you like to think you are, that reassures you. You have no moral compass, you are blind. You arrogantly deny that many gays don't do anal sex (even if none of them didn't do it, that still wouldn't prove that they cannot abstain from it, anyway, but you don't care about the actual truth, just your false version of it). Your insincerity is obvious to me. You're nothing more than an arrogant vermin. You want to make people suffer during their entire lives, you deserve to get shot.

>>8613210
>its discrimination
Why is that wrong in this circumstance? You are ok with discrimination against rapists and felons...

>false equivilance
But why is it ok to ban someone for no shirt, but not for being gay?

>So straight sex. Most things we do daily cause us arms.
not if straight couples don't have anal

>Unrelated to sex and related to homophobia.
Which means you have a study of accepting cultures showing gay people are fine, right???

>Another false equivalence
My point is, you cannot claim something is justified just because you feel bad. You need to make a better argument.

>No you do not
I've repressed, I think I know first hand the feelings

I don't deny it fucking SUCKS, and you have my sympathy when it comes to coping

> would shun active homosexual.
This is because its a choice

> loves to make people hard for something they have no fault.
if you are an active homosexual, and not being RAPED, it is your fault.

>Do you think straight men should resist their straight urges?
Straight men don't have all the problems gay men do.

>12-13
Who made you the authority on what exactly YOUNG means?

>>8613227
>Fuck, this guys making good points about aids
>lets call him a pedo with no basis!

k

>>8613234
Does this apply to men who fuck little boys while advocating for gay rights???

>>8613238
>we care
If your going to talk about things like that, why ignore very clear data that its overwhelmingly effecting blacks and gays?

>it doesn't matter
it does matter, but why is pedophilia so much less of a problem in white countries? Particularly ones without islam in it

>>8613326
>Why is that wrong in this circumstance? You are ok with discrimination against rapists and felons...
Are you underage?

>But why is it ok to ban someone for no shirt, but not for being gay?
Because they are not remotely the same thing, dumbass.

>not if straight couples don't have anal
Which they do.

>Which means you have a study of accepting cultures showing gay people are fine, right???
No one gives a shit about studies. Not even yourself, when people showed you a study converstion therapy was insane, you didn't care.

Also no society accepts gay and the world is still largely made for straight males.

>I've repressed, I think I know first hand the feelings
So you just a repressed homo?

>if you are an active homosexual, and not being RAPED, it is your fault.
Fault of what?

>Straight men don't have all the problems gay men do.
Yes, they have it worse.

>Who made you the authority on what exactly YOUNG means?
English, dump ass. Which you don't know or pretend to not know. 20 is not a young girl, it is a young WOMAN.

>If your going to talk about things like that, why ignore very clear data that its overwhelmingly effecting blacks and gays?
So now it's about race!

>it does matter, but why is pedophilia so much less of a problem in white countries? Particularly ones without islam in it
Because you go to Thailand to do it.

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>>8613322
Why do people even care if gays do anal?

Smocking is also bad, so is alcohol and eating too much chocolate. Do we outlaw these things to?

>>8613326
>I've repressed, I think I know first hand the feelings

I don't deny it fucking SUCKS, and you have my sympathy when it comes to coping

We don't care about your insincere "sympathy". You're a coward and a traitor.

>Does this apply to men who fuck little boys while advocating for gay rights???

Don't try to deny the truth, they only advocate for "gay rights" as long as it helps further their cause a bit by bit, I'm gay and I don't care about "rights" (I'm against gay marriage (which doesn't mean that I'm not 300% for monogamy in gay people) and for a very severe prohibition on anal sex), I care about changing mentalities by establishing the truth. You're a monster, you don't care at all about these kids, you deserve to feel burning lava against your skin for eternity. I spit on whatever passes for a soul in you.

>>8613262
>>8613262
>you didn't
Its a moral issue when claiming somone is ignoring proof without showing proof, it has 4 basic outcomes which could fail

1 : you are right, and I am wrong, but BOTH OF US refuse to look for it. This is at least PARTIALLY your fault for being a lazy prick

2: You are right, I am wrong, I look up information, and cannot find it, and you still refuse to show proof. This is entirely your fault for not helping make your own point, since you apparently know exactly where the proof is, but refuse to show it because "reasons".

3: I am right, you are wrong. I refuse to look it up because you are asserting something without evidence. You bitch that I don't look it up, and either KNOW it doesn't exist, or THINK it exists, yet refuse to check. Either way, your fault

4: I am right, you are wrong, I look, and find nothing due to it being a wild goose chase, and you blame me for not finding it while not having it yourself

in 4-4 situations you are at fault

in only 1 am I even slightly at fault.

>straights spread aids
This is a statistical non risk factor.

When removing homosexuals, drug users and hemophiliacs, the aids transmission rate becomes a fraction of what it was before : I would even argue the transmission rate would be so low, it would die out over time.

>talking about straight people
and straight people isn't the common factor here, being a promiscuous bastard is. Pretty sure gays spread more STD's per capita than straight too.

>spread disease
what about todays rates, per capita? Oh, you don't want to talk about that

>imbreeding
does this even show up on a pie chart for straight people in general, much less people EFFECTED by inbreeding in a meaningful way??

Grasping at straws

>how many are straight
This is a non argument : this is like arguing humans are to blame for all atrocities in the world, rather than looking at whos CAUSING THE ATROCITIES.