/HRTGen/ HRT General 041: Cypro x Spiro wars edition

>>8594014
Is 200mg of spiractin, 6mg of progynova, and 200mg of microgestin considered low dose?

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I need help with how to start and dosages (I'm REALLY insecure and if i'm not being too selfish, I just want to make sure i'll do it right)

I've ordered 60 cypro pills (50mg) and 56 estrogen pills (1mg)

The estrogen is 17- b-estradiol micronized. This means i should swallow the pill? The description talks about gastrointestinal tract absorption but doesn't say anything about sublingual administration

Now for the schedule:
1x1mg E pill at noon
1x1mg Finasteride pill at noon
(I choose noon because it's easier to remember compared to when i wake up in a hurry)

1x25mg Cypro pill after dinner (~7pm)

1x1mg E pill at midnight, before sleeping

Is this a good way to start? Can i take cypro only for 1 month before starting E?

>>8594014
I am about to order estrogen and antiandrogen from this site https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/c-88-transgender.aspx I have no prescription. I was thinking of starting with
>estrofem 1mg
>spiractin 25
Im 18 about to go into college does this seem right. I've done my research and these two seem good, I just want to know if anyone else has used different hormones and what you think would work best.

>>8594019
No, but the dosage is not important but your hormone levels.
>>8594173
Everything is fine. No need to start cypro before estrogen. Might want to order more pills at 2mg because 1mg twice a day will not last you long.
>>8594229
Get cypro instead of spiro.

Does anyone know what's the difference between the Cyproterone and the Androcur on QHI? It seems to me that they're the same except for a 4 pill difference, and a ~40$ difference.

>>8594173
It was a better idea to get 2mg and buy a pill splitter. It's more economical. Make sure to use it sublingually if it's estradiol hemihydrate.

>>8594173
micronized estradiol is the hemihydrate, generally you shouldn't swallow it, though it does 'technically' absorb both ways. But usually only cis women swallow it cause they don't need the higher bioavailability like mtf's do.

>>8594534
There's none really.
Androcur's is brand-name Cyproterone. There's only maybe a minute difference in composition, but it's effectively the same.

But androcur if you want Bayer brand security. Though generic is more economical. Even my current clinic uses a generic one.

What's the difference between estradiol valerate and beta estradiol? Can i switch from one to the other? valerate is cheaper and i'm running out of money.

>>8594499
>Get cypro instead of spiro.
what difference does it make. also Im working under the assumption that I should only take 1mg of estrogen a day

>>8594968
You mean 17B-estradiol? That's just regular estradiol.
But I'm assuming you're referring to it being the hemihydrate or micronized estradiol, which you would use sublingually.

With valerate, cypionate, etc. you swallow it normally

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>>8594014
Where are you supposed to get Ralox from when you live in the UK? :-(

Is this real? the pdf guide in the OP seems kinda old
>The risk of blood clots may be reduced by
taking estrogen via skin patch, cream, or gel

any other generic measures to reduce the risk of blood cloths? Im old but dont smoke

>>8595009
that is true, you can add injections to that list though

>>8595009
Supposedly it has to do with 1st pass metabolism related to certain methods of absorption. But I know some estrogen patches actually raise the risk, but that might be birth control versions that use synthetic estrogens.
Haven't looked much into it myself.

The mechanism is related to estradiol inducing a release of clotting factor proteins in the liver. There are supplements and drugs you can take to help with that though.

>>8595070
ok Ill have to look it up and maybe switch to patches, and I know that etynylE is bad

>>8595123
It really isn't any big deal until you're like 40+ years old. Even then it's quite rare, and as I said there are medications, dietary changes, and supplements that can deal with it.

Why is raloxifene more commonly recommended than tamoxifen?

>>8577360
Any more info on that? I dont want to lose more hair!

>>8595756
cause tamox is old and has worse side effects

>>8595002
qhi. you have to ask them for it, last i heard.

>>8595756
tamoxifen causes cognitive dysfunction

>>8595871
>cause tamox is old and has worse side effects
this but if ralox gives you issues switch to tamox

There's also other SERMs out there, a lot of them are used in birth control, some are still in research, etc. Like there's probably at least 200+ SERMs these days

>>8594014
I got Lupron for free and it was the most simple thing I've ever done.

Tbh Kaiser sucks for most health care but their clinic that specializes is awesome if you're in the Bay.

>>8595913
injection or spray?

so i'm on spyro and i eat like
300 mg of potassium everyday, is this bad?

>>8596166
Yeah, sorry to break it to you but you're probably going to turn into a dragon.

>>8596117
I only inject desu, nothing else is as effective for me

I'm a femboy, 3 months into hrt, i haven't done any blood tests yet after starting. I'll do them until the next week to check levels.

I'm still on 2mg E split during the day. Should i increase the dose to 4mg? with 2mg dose i'll be under female ranges and experience side-effects from having low E in blood? Or maybe i can keep a low dose to slow down feminization and delay boob growth?

Few questions:

1. Estradiol, oral or sublingual? Afaik sublingual means healthier E1 v E2 ratios (don't know what this actually means) and higher total bioavailability as a trade off for oral's longer half life of like 15 hours vs like 5 (which might mean reduced effects due to sharp peak and decline). Does that essentially sum it up? Is what I said correct? What do you choose?

2. What's the deal with progesterone? Is there any argument against trying it if the doctor is willing? iirc the risk is mood based and elevated cancer risks. If neither are an issue it's just positive overall right?

3. What is the estradiol v estrone ratio? Is that e1 v e2 that I've heard mentioned? Why's it important? If I got my doctor to get it tested what would I even do with the results?

Thank you.

>>8596522
Chances are you won't be too low of E to cause any consequences. Unless you start feeling really tired or notice hair thinning or something of that sort you should be fine

>>8596554
>Estradiol, oral or sublingual?
Sublingual is usually recommended because it bypasses the liver and less of it gets converted to estrone.
>E1 v E2 ratios (don't know what this actually means)
>What is the estradiol v estrone ratio?
E1 (estrone) and E2 (estradiol) are different forms of estrogen. E2 has a significantly higher binding affinity to the estrogen receptor (about 25x that of estrone).
>If I got my doctor to get it tested what would I even do with the results?
You can use the results to guide how you administer your estradiol. If it turns out your E1/E2 ratio is too high, you can try injections or patches instead. See slide 28 here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5GqH5rA-mckUUdtdDVmQUhnX28/view
>What's the deal with progesterone?
I don't know. Supposedly it helps breast growth.

So I'm on cypro 50mg and was hoping my hair loss was mpb and would stop, but the general thinning just seems to continue. Does not having estrogen to act as a main hormone fucking with my hair production? I ordered an estrogen cream (biestra) that'll be here tomorrow so I'm hoping to see results with that.

If this is the case woul Ralox be a sufficient stand in? Not sure if the estrogen receptors in the scalp are affected or however that works, but I'd be willing to try. Any info or a point in the right direction appreciated.

>>8596727
Yes not having E will cause that.

Just so you know though, I have heard those Biestro creams don't actually have estradiol in them because if it did they wouldn't be allowed to sell it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1nnjpk/otc_estradiol_cream/

should i loose weight first then start hrt or should i just start hrt now? probally cant even pass on hrt at 26 BMI.

>>8596923
I know some people will say lose it first but I think getting started on hrt is ultimately more important. You can lose weight as you go, your body is constantly redistributing fat.

what's tamoxifine? an antibiotic right? does it cause breast growth problems like ralox does?

my beer belly is losing 15 pounds a month because no T to store fat there. (=

my butt, boobs, and cheeks are moving fat.

start hrt, don't go into a health phase first. but yeah, losing feminine placed fat while on estrogen is hard.

I've been on cypro and estradiol patches. My boobs have started growing and I would prefer them not to. Should I try switching to Raloxifene? Do I need anything else other than cypro and raloxifene?

Does cypro cause infertility and if so is it reversible?

>>8597038
If anything will cause infertility it's probably cypro. To a degree it's reversible though, really depends. Sometimes it just takes a while to rebound.
Spiro and bica are less likely to cause infertility

>>8597074
Not the same anon but, i don't care about infertility, but is genital atrophy and ED reversible? Or are they directly related to infertility?

>>8597074
shit

>>8597084
If that's something you care about, bica is your best choice.

>>8597084
They usually say testicular atrophy is the hardest to reverse.
Penile atrophy will reverse if you get nocturnal erections again, which should return after stopping hrt. But if your testicles atrophied too much you may need to go on test. Your penis is vascular tissue so it will hurt when erections resume at first but the tissue will eventually stretch back out to normal size

>>8597019
Tamoxifene is a SERM, alternative to ralox, and like raloxifene, it can prevent breast growth. However tamoxifene got a bigger chance of causing side-effects, some of them serious.

I'm freshly 18, mtf, pre everything.
What steps must I follow in order to begin hrt? I feel in the dark because I have trouble doing things without step by step directions because I'm stupid as hell.
So far, I think this is what I have to do:
Go to therapist specialising in trans
Talk to them
Get recc. to an endo
Endo might start me on hrt?

What am I missing?

>>8597118
What country are you in?

>>8597131
USA
Pennsylvania
I'm near Philly if that helps.

>>8597142
In the US, you don't need to get a referral from a therapist. A Google search brought up this place:
https://www.mazzonicenter.org/health-care/trans-care
I searched the name on Reddit, and it seems they practice informed consent.

>>8597168
Okay, thank you!
I just did some research on them, they're only an hour away. I'm attempting to find out if they're under my insurance or whatever, now. That I'm on my own with, I guess.
But I thank you immensely for your help! I was under the impression that I absolutely needed a therapist.

>>8594981
I take 4mg a day. 4-6mg seems to be the typical dosage prescribed where I live (australia).

because estrofem (17b estradiol) has a short half life, I might suggest taking a 2mg tablet in the morning, and one at night, for more even levels.

Anyone know where the cheapest place to get estradiol valerate for injection, since Progynon Depot stocked by IHP went out of production?

The Delestrogen on there is so expensive. I can't afford that shit. Still don wanna switch to pills though.

About to start DIY and can't get blood tests, so I'm a bit unsure of what to do.

Was planning on 4mg progynova and 200mg Spiro per day, but I was told to start with a lower does. Is 2mg progynova / 100mg Spiro better ?
I really don't want to screw up on this.

>>8594014
Is it normal that your boobs shrink during hrt?
I've been on them for 8 months and the last two the growth stopped. Now it's rather like they're shrinking.
I've been on 4mg e when growth stopped and upped them to 6. Is that the problem? I read about estrogen turning into t when yu take too much but I thought cypro would counter that.

>>8598955
Estrogen won't turn into T, that's impossible
Your boobs can shrink a bit just due to fluctuations in prolactin and swelling occasionally

Looking for advice on what to do.

My T is good but as of my latest blood test I'm sitting around 100pg/ml E. I'm on 6 mg of estradiol but my endo won't add more and she won't prescribe me injections. What can I do to safely raise my E levels for better feminization?

>>8599111
Do you use the hemihydrate or valerate/cypionate

>>8599128
Not sure on how to answer that. They are the standard little blue pills shaped like an oval with a "887 / 2" printed on them. They are the micronized tablets for sublingual and the prescription simply says Estradiol (substituted for Estrace).

>>8599145
Yeah that's the hemihydrate.
You're using them sublingually, right? Don't swallow them until they're mostly absorbed

>>8599145
Actually they're more green, oops. Anyways according to the net they are just "estradiol" pills.

>>8599152
I see. I am taking them sublingually as best I can to avoid swallowing any of it.

>>8599164
Well you could always try switching to estradiol valerate
Maybe your body just isn't good at absorbing the hemihydrate or something

>>8599172
I was on estradiol valerate before when I was on diy, but unfortunately I never saw what my levels were on it when I switched. Is it okay to take them sublingually? I was taking the 2mg tablets orally (swallowing) as it said on the package before. Also, is it safe to maybe take some alongside the hemihydrate as a supplement?

>>8599189
You should swallow the valerate pills.
I'm not sure how effective combining the two would be, never heard of anyone trying it lol
I'd say maybe try the valerate first and see what happens.

Also it depends when you're getting your tests done too. The sublignal pills give a big peak at first whereas valerate is more consistent throughout the day.

>>8599209
I got it done right before lunch, so it was before I was about to take my second 2mg pill for the day. It's possible I just got it measured at a low valley(?) when my levels were low from the pill I had taken 4-5 hours before. I've also heard that splitting up the pill and taking it 6 times a day is better for more consistent levels, so maybe I'll try that.

Also, why is it bad to take the valerate pills sublingually? I have a friend doing that and maybe I should give her a heads up...

So from what I've read, the main sources for HRT are inhouse pharmacy, QHI and all day chemist. Are they definitely legit? I can't seem to find much in the way of reviews or anything online.

>>8599257
I order from QHI and I can vouch that they are legit. Not sure about the other ones.

So how long does stuff take to ship from these pharma sites in the OP?

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I was told to try HRT and if it feels right that must mean I have female brain because it needs estrogen instead of testosterone, how true is that?

I dont consider myself trans but I have AGP and other disorders (anxiety, depression etc)
Ive been feeling stressed and depressed for a long while and finally caved in, cause I got nothing to lose.

After starting low dose HRT my mood is much better and I feel more energy. Nothing huge like drugs effect or anything but at least I can feel some joy again and have less of depression symptoms (like deep selfhate and lack of motivation for anything)

Any sane explanation for this besides placebo effect? Does it mean that Im actually trans? Would've I felt worse on HRT if I had a normal male brain?

So, why exactly do people say that like age 24-25 or w/e is the "cutoff date" for effective HRT?

>>8597690
Nobody?

>>8599588
because T has had all the time in the world to work its magic. although it can not be true for some people. i transitioned at 20 and i pass at 5 months time. its mostly genetics, i dont think hrt has done anythign for me so far

>>8599257
Inhouse are legit.
>>8599531
Depends on your location. Looking at a couple of weeks from inhouse.
>>8599552
I don't know why people are trans, but after taking estrogen I sometimes get feelings of serenity.
>>8599588
Male puberty will have finished then. Hip bones fused and fully developed beard. Although, some report good results after. Depends on genetics, health etc.
>>8599761
Start with full aa dosage, but lower estrogen. Raise estrogen after a month. Expect drastic effects in the first week that will disappear overtime.

does anyone know if qhi will accept a mastercard gift card or does it have to be a prepaid card?

>>8599844
>Raise estrogen after a month
Is this necessary?

help

when i like masturbate real quick i only get like 2-3 drops of very clear liquid but if i do it for a long time like just now like 45 mins of rubbing (not stroking thats gross) a lot of precum ofc leaked out during that time and when i came idk more came out i guess and i checked the composition and it was less liquidy and less clear am i fucked? is my test soaring thru the skies

25mg cypro 4mg e btw 5 month now

>>8600295
>not stroking thats gross
lol

I'm sure you're just fine. When you masturbate or edge for a long time it tends to cause your prostate to buildup fluids.
If it's pretty clear you're probably fine. It's not going to be like pure water.

>>8599552
The bottom line is you got to do what feels right and makes it easier for you to live. I know I am trans, and I felt the mental side of things was one of the starkest improvements.

>>8594014
Is there anyone here who is taking Progynova and have reached the target E levels? Seems like it is impossible even with a high dose.

>>8600776
i did with 6mg daily
and im 6 feet and 170 lbs

>>8600127
Seems to produce better results, I can't find the papers offhand.

>>8600828
tfw 5'3 102lbs and can't reach target with a dose higher than that. Maybe my liver is absorbing all of it :(

>>8600893
try estrofem

its much cheaper but its much less fucky with ur liver and the estradiol will just absorb into your bloodstream and it doesnt have to be converted into the active form slowly thru liver

>>8600911
Yeah, I wanted to see if there was a way to obtain injections but looks like it'll be best to give estrofem a try first.

>>8600911
I cant even buy that here, not sure if other hemihydrate exists, would gel/patches work better than valerate in prog?

>>8600994
just order from qhi or something?

>>8601011
more expensive with risk of getting confiscated
and Im a poor neet

which is better to start 25 mg of spiro or 100. Im trying to avoid cypro since it can cause depression.

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So I'm just gonna go ahead and post a bit about my /HRT/ life here. I usually just post here to help with med/supplier directions and stuff, but I gotta get this off my chest - I'm wondering if some folks might identify with it a bit too. Thanks Anons.

>always be shy boy
>nice to everyone, gets me bullied a bit early on
>love reading and crafts, only really like sports/competitive stuff 'cuz you do it with friends
>always love being called 'cute' while growing up
>hate that my Dad makes me get a crew cut at the end of each summer, love my summer locks
>very submissive to my friends; they realize I like being bossed around

Anyways, that's just some background on my formative years. Let's just nail out the timeline now.

>10 years old realize I like boys
>11 years old develop dark / very sexual fantasies
>12 year old me realizes he doesn't like the idea of getting masc and hairy
>12 year old me also fools around a bit with buddies
>13 year old me discovers castration, instantly becomes #1 fetish and it has been to this day
>14 year old me comes out as gay
>16 year old me gets super into femboys, identifies with them pretty hard (albeit as more of a 'tomboy')
>19 year old me gets on spiro
>22 year old me switches to bica/ralox

So anyways I'm 23 now. I've been on blockers for the last four years, and now I'm heavily considering getting an orchie. I figure those years on spiro probably nuked my testes anyway (having biokids was something I'd considered), and I think I've accepted that I could live without them.

But anyways, does this seem like a reasonable progression? I'm still super, super kinky & relish the idea of getting castrated, being a eunuch, etc. I just keep feel like I *might* regret it, but I really wanna do it, too.

Just rehashing all this in my mind since I'm going to see my first therapist about it in a couple days. Thanks for reading, Anons.

I'm already taking durasteride, should i be careful about taking it with another AA?

>>8601401
>always be a very small kid, shorter than girls on average
>always have been kinky for some reason
>grow hair out as a kid cuz i just felt like it
>have a tendency to slip into female clothing

>be about 12
>start taking nudes/vids of myself focusing on my ass
>13-14 i start realizing instead of just anal stimulation i want to be fucked
>15-16 i finally realize i want it to be a bigger strong man that fucks me
>be a slut
>continue until 18
>start hrt

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>>8601401
You... sound exactly like me in your early life... and sincerely you sound like the future i'm heading to...

Not a bad thing, i'm just wondering if i will be scared about this all when i'm older too (i'm 18 right now), specially thinking if i'll end up regretting it later.

But idk, do you feel happier? Are you enjoying life? Idk if you're into cosplay or crossdressing but if you do, are you enjoying it more?

If you're happy (or happier than if you let T stay on your body), that's it. We only live once. And maybe, if you didn't regret it yet, you're not going to.

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>>8601402
Bica should be okay; you might want to add a SERM if you're gonna keep up with the AAs.

>>8601422
>small boy develops an interest in soft girls' clothes
>likes having his hair long
>develops an early interest in the ruff stuff
>realizes he likes big strong men and goes slutmode

The circle of life. The overlaps are funny; are you MTF, Anon?

>>8601428
>sincerely you sound like the future i'm heading to...
It's really funny how that works, honestly. When I was your age and /lgbt/ first opened I was identifying quite firmly with a lot of the experiences people were sharing. Time sure flies; it's real neat knowing that someone else can relate to my experiences, and is charting their own course.

The fear of regret is scary, but as with many things, there's no regret to be found when you cross these thresholds. "What if' is simply a scary question to be asking yourself sometimes. Once you're there, the reasons you took that path overpower most small misgivings. I'm very happy with my life as it is now; far happier than I would've been with T, I imagine. Oh, and I do crossdress at times - it's become a lot more fun for me over the past few years.

Thanks for writing; your last line was really reassuring.

So, Im scared of hitting a growth spurt before I get an rx (likely 5-6 months away and im not sure im done with puberty), but Im also poor. Is it a good idea to self med cypro without estrogen until it happens?

has anyone considered taking estrogen without AA? with the goal of just lowering T, not necessarily to female levels.
from what I've read, it seems like hip bone ossification is the only real concern with this. all other ossification is welcome in my eyes.

is there something obvious I'm missing here? like too much/too little estrogen causing a spike in T rather than lowering it? otherwise this seems like the best option to reduce testosterone without blocking it entirely.

>>8601934
Yes you can take estrogen without AAs but it may not necessarily lower T. It really depends on how much you take and for how long.
Generally speaking men with high E inevitably end up lowering their T more and more over time, but it depends on how high E they are. Also you wouldn't necessarily get the really nice effects of E cause it's competing with your bodies T so you might just end up with gross weird looking manboobs and not proper breast development.
Sometimes many people don't need AAs at all and they can get away with simply taking E+prog and have female range T.

>>8601934
you're going to experience t flares and e crashes and then t crashes and e flares. no body changes will keep, you will constantly lose ur gains.

suxxxxxx

someone is going to nail the dosage and get a sweet androgynous thing going on.

this shit can kill you. do it under medical supervision.

>>8601422
tfw dreamed of being in woman's role getting fucked and started playing with my butt around 14-15 being super ashamed
tfw was still mostly straight so repressed and tried to be normal and tried to get gfs instead
but nothing really worked ...
ffw 10+ years and Im here wishing I had started HRT and moved to a less homophobic place when I was still young

>>8594014
how does one go about getting an order for an x ray without waiting 3 weeks to see a fucking gp?

>>8602010
I don't think you could really. But maybe just find another GP that is less busy?

>>8601562
>The circle of life. The overlaps are funny; are you MTF, Anon?
of course im trans

>>8601943
>>8601963
yeah I was expecting some sort of flashes and inconsistancy but never saw any mention of that, thanks.
I'm going for androgynous and I feel like I've always had really high T, I'm underweight and at 20 I have a full beard pretty much. so I'm mainly just trying to lower it.

how likely is bica to cause conetits? and I worry that the increased T will not always be blocked, specifically at the beginning of taking it, and right after stopping.

>>8599844
>Male puberty will have finished then. Hip bones fused and fully developed beard. Although, some report good results after. Depends on genetics, health etc.
Well good thing my hips are as wide my shoulders. Dunno how I wound up like this without hrt but guess I'm lucky. I'll definitely need to get my beard lasered off though.

>>8603388
>sort of flashes
what are those like? are there any particularly noticeable symptoms of low hormones?
Im pretty sure my T is very low but might be not enough E
ei I woke up all hot but not sweating, mouth dry
and drink lots of water/tea and not on spiro

Does progesterone really help with breast growth? I keep hearing conflicting accounts so I'm not sure if it's worth starting. I just know I want my boobs to be the best they can be.

Are climara patches a high enough dosage? They seem small

>>8604181
I haven't tried that, I was only thinking about it, if there is any potential to cause spikes in T then I might not try it.
Are you on estrogen alone? how long have you been doing that?

I'll probably focus more on body hair removal and dressing better. as much as I want to keep my skinny waist and work on my face, I feel like I would develop breasts well before any of that happened if I started full HRT, and I'm trying to avoid that unless they were very small and somewhat flat.
wish there was something better than dieting to
just lower testosterone. besides a much better body odor, I don't feel much different after changing my diet..

I'm getting my hormones from planned parenthood and it's a way lower dose than I was self medicating 4 1/2 mg estrodiall, 100mgs of spiro. Now I was taking before going legitimate 6mgs estradiol and 50 mgs of cypro. I'm really worried about my dose cause I'm the first month they aren't even monitoring my testosterone levels just potassium and liver enyzmes what gives I am I being pranked why on earth would they not monitor my estrogen and testosterone levels?

I think I was better off self medding lol but I can't now cause my family is worried I fucked it my health hence the high liver enzymes.

So anyone else getting similar treatment the first month cause wtf I don't like this at all getting boners again, my boobs have shrunk in the first couple months and I'm 28 this is no time to allow my testosterone to grow unimpeded.

>>8604658
was your estradiol progynova?

because 50mg + 6mg progy sounds pretty fucking intense on your liver

>>8604664
No it wasn't it was estrace or it's knock off name estrofem. I did take 100 mgs of progesterone too which they had me stop too saying there's not much evidence for progesterone increasing boob size. I dunno I feel pretty apprehensive about the whole thing like is it normal not to check your t levels and most of all e when your under a doctors care transitioning?

>>8604503
personally i take 2x 100 mcg patches to get sufficient estradiol
id think that is quite common

Just got my latest lab results back:

2 months on HRT - T - 25 ng/dL, E - 991.2 pg/mL(Took E before test without thinking)
5 months on HRT - T - 20 ng/dL, E - 98.1 pg/mL
9.5 months on HRT - T - 19 ng/dL, E - 92.9 pg/mL

Why are my E levels lower when between the 5 month and 9.5 month tests I upped my E from 4mg to 6mg daily?

My HRT regimen is Cypro 25mg, 6mg Estrofem Sublingual, 1mg Finasteride

Trying to get an HRT letter soon so I can get injections.

>>8604719
Do you put them on your stomach? Butt? I know it says not to put them on your boobs (only assuming that includes pre hormonal mtf chests)

>>8599844
Alright, so 2mg estrogen / 200mg Spiro for the first month, then raise estrogen to 4mg. Is there anything else I should know, like foods to avoid or symptoms to watch for? Also I think that estrogen is taken sublingually while AA is taken normally but I might be wrong on this.

How hard is it to move from DIY to the more "official" route?

>>8605566
It's pretty easy. If your area has a lot of gatekeeping self-medding is an easy way to skip all that. Chances are you won't even need a therapist except for getting surgeries later on.

>>8605566
You literally go to them and when you mention that you've been self-medding for the past x time, they don't gatekeep you for months.

>>8605816
>>8605574
Sweet, seems like the right move, then.

>>8594229
Don't get cypro instead of spiro. And you aren't just taking 25mg of spiro per day are you? Take at least 25 twice a day or 50 2x
>>8596166
Only if you're at Spiro 200
>>8596522
Wait for the blood test is a good idea, but well I didn't wait so take this how you will
>>8597030
>Raloxifene is an oral selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that has estrogenic actions on bone and anti-estrogenic actions on the uterus and breast
Add it to the AA and E
>>8597256
You will if you plan on getting certain surgeries in the future
>>8600113
>mastercard gift card
That is a prepaid card isn't it?
>>8600295
Cyproterone makes your cum clear
>>8601241
50-75 twice a day
>>8601662
Cypro alone won't stop puberty, and in 5-6 months good luck stopping it

>>8604722
>991.2pg/ml
hahhahahha

Look at the anime girl in the OP

>>8605920
Patch DIY guy here again. Just noticed the animu doesn't list the climara patch. Should I go pills instead, or is it preference?

ive been asking this for a while but never gotten an answer

i cant access blood tests right now, not liver enzymes either so

im 110lbs and 19 years old and been on 25mg cypro for 5 months now (4mg estrofem too)
so i have no idea as to what my t levels are but since my cum is clear and theres barely any of it when i orgasm and my balls have definitely shrunk quite a bit i should be pretty low right?

so im just wondering if i should drop to 12.5mg JUST in case my liver enzymes are elevated because i wouldnt want to keep them elevated for too long

>>8601662
AAs wont stop you growing, in fact, taking AAs is more likely to INCREASE your final height rather than lowering it because its estrogens that cause your growth plates to fuse and if you have less testosterone the less there is for it to be converted into estrogen which would cause you to stop growing.

honestly? maxing out your estrogen for the time being is your best option if you want to lower your final height

>>8606361
Yeah eunuchs end up taller than both cis men and women

>>8605899
>… certain surgeries in the future (relating to the need for a therapist)
Of course. But I'm only 18. I need to work myself up to that.

>>8606356
YMMV but I only had a negligible liver enzyme increase on 25mg cypro, dropped to 12.5mg after 6 months anyway.

Pre results:
ALT 13(ref <50)
AST 18(ref <36)
25mg results:
ALT 20
AST 17
12.5mg results:
ALT 14

Last test didn't have AST for some reason but you can see there's heck-all difference.

>>8606441
yeah, thats cool

i mean you stayed within reference ranges anyway and the 25mg results could be normal fluctuation anyway

im not sure though how dropping to 12.5mg would affect my testosterone levels, i dont want them to go up

>>8606447
If you've been on cypro for 5-6 months they'll be fine.

My T levels on 25mg ranged from 0.8-1.1nmol/L, and the 1.1 result was actually from my /last/ 25mg test. The only 12.5 test I've had so far put T at 0.7 nmol/L, which is 0.2 ng/ml (female ref 0.1-1.2ng/ml).

Also you're 35lbs lighter than I am so if anything your results should be better.

If I keep up my daily exercise (just general cardio/at home stuff to get in better shape), and my weight watchers shit (knock it all you want, but I'm down ~30lbs), will my results/needed effort change on hormones/AAs?

Will I need to change my WW sex to female or something?

>>8606545
alright thanks

ill be taking 12.5mg from now on

if my t goes up i should notice from increased body odor and thicker less clear cum etc anyway probably

I haven't been able to find any information about spironolactone and raloxifene being used together. Searching for those two keywords on PubMed doesn't bring up anything relevant. Searching the archive, I was only able to find one anon who was taking that combination.

Is it safe to take those two together? Why or why not?

I suspect it's safe because tamoxifen is regularly used in patients experiencing breast tenderness or gynecomastia due to spironolactone. However, raloxifene might have some important differences from tamoxifen that I'm not aware of.

I'm on pill (4mg/day) Estriadol and (75mg/day) Spironolactone for about 5 months now, what time should I schedule my doses for maximum effect ( I take both twice a day)? Also should I consider switching to cypro over Spironalactone and injections of estrogen over pill, I'm also going to ask my doctor about progesterone btw? Any other recommendedations/tips appreciated.

>>8606625
>spiro schedule
Twice a day is fine for spiro. The active metabolites of spiro have a half life of 14 hours.
>estradiol schedule
Twice a day is fine for oral estradiol, but you may want to consider 3 times a day for sublingual. Oral estradiol has a half life of 13-20 hours and sublingual 8-18 hours.
>cypro vs spiro
The only reason to switch is if you don't like the side effects of spiro or it isn't working.
>injections vs pill
Benefits of injections:
- significantly longer half life (don't have to administer it as often)
- may improve E1/E2 ratio (read >>8596702)
It only makes sense to switch if you have a poor E1/E2 ratio or you find it too inconvenient to take a pill twice a day.

>>8606625
>>8606635
>injections vs pill
Actually, I forgot one of the other reasons to switch. Oral estradiol is processed by your liver, whereas sublingual and injections are not. If you're taking a high dose, have a history or risk of liver issues, or your liver enzymes levels are funky, then you should consider switching.

whens the best time to take valerate (progy)?
after you wakeup - technically it can be late day for me
with food or without?
all at once or split in 2? once before sleep?

help

im 5 months hrt and im feeling dysphoric over my neck circumference

im 5'2 which means im kinda below average for girl height but my neck circumference is 32 cm average is like 31-31.5 I FEEL SO WRONG

please tell me hrt will give me a thinner neck

>>8606878
sounds like OCD much?
and if such a small thing as neck is your biggest concern then congrats, I guess

How to switch from 6mg sublingual e to injections? Also is it cheaper?

>>8606643
Isn't the difference between oral/sublingual just in how you take the pill? Or is there an E specifically for sublingual now?

>>8605932
I'm not familiar with patches, I'll try to get back to you

>>8606361
>converted
What do you mean by this?

I hate my belly so much its so toned

>>8607374
That's fair. Thanks for the response

>>8606878
If you are overweight or muscular, and proceed to lose weight your neck will get smaller.
>>8607370
I believe estrofem is coated and designed to be taken sublingual. Prog isn't.
>>8607764
But toned bellies are sexy

>>8594014
a couple threads ago i tried to ask about something called "lupin estradiol" and didn't really respond to the one whole reply my post had which asked if i confused it for lupron
it isn't lupron, lupron is more of a blocker, and i managed to figure out that lupin-estradiol is a shitty canadian estradiol hemihydrate that barely containes any estrogen at all.
because of how shitty these pills are i've noticed my tits literally shrinking and my libido coming back, naturally these both suck so if anyone has knowledge of estrogens in canada (one i know of right now is estrace(micronized)) i'd appreciate some suggestions thanks

can I take hrt on a plane Im about to take it for the first time, and I know that spiro is a blood thinner, while estrace can increase blood pressure. Is it safe. what are the risks.

>>8608465
Estrace should work just fine, just make sure you're taking it sublingually.

>>8608465
Seconding for this, I need to know what to ask the doc for after I tell him I'm not satisfied with this bottom shelf garbage...

>>8608507
do you think your going to explode or something?

>>8608507
>spiro is a blood thinner
>estrogen is a blood thickener
really makes you think

I'm going to start hrt but it's a really busy part of my life, i'm starting to work and study. Will hrt affect my performance in something? I'm scared of mental and physical changes (Cypro + Valerate)

>>8596522
>take HRT
>doesn't want feminization or boobs
why do you even take HRT in the first place?

>>8608719
unless youre doing manual labour you should be fine

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>>8608671
I might. But seriously would I like pass out.

>>8608782
I want them but it would be cool if it came slowly.

>>8608719
You should be okay but the first couple weeks are a little bit crazy cause of the hormonal changes so if you have a big project due right away you might want to wait to start a couple weeks.

>>8608507
Actually you're only supposed to take spiro on planes. It's dangerous to take it on the ground.

So, I've been working on trying to make my dosage as efficient as possible. I'm on 6 mg of Estrace. Is it better for more consistent levels and feminization to:

Take 1mg in 4 hour intervals (4mg total), then 2mg before bed,
or
Take 6mg in 8 hour intervals, such as, Morning, Afternoon, Bedtime?

>>8610174
I meant to say 2mg in 8 hour intervals totaling 6mg.

>>8610174
>>8610177
Get your estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2) levels checked 8 hours after you last took a dose. Make sure the lab results are actually split into estrone and estradiol. If your estradiol levels are 200-300 pg/mL 8 hours after your last dose, then your estrogen receptors are already at or near saturation and there's no point in changing your dosage schedule. If not, then consider higher or more frequent doses.

(Source of the recommended estradiol levels is p.28 of the slides linked in >>8596702.)

>>8610209
Thing is I recently got a lab done showing me at ~100 pg/ml around 6-7 hours after my first dose of the day, so I was a little unhappy with that. Haven't had a check on E1:E2 levels so far. I wonder if my endo even does that.

>>8610356
Oh and the ~100pg/ml was purely E2 levels according to the lab sheet I was given. I have no clue what the E1 might have been.

>>8610360
>purely E2
If it's "total estradiol", that includes E1-3.

>>8610387
It wasn't "total estradiol", just marked as "estradiol". So now I'm not even sure, maybe asking my endo is the best idea.

>>8610387
Estradiol is estradiol. Estrone and estriol are not estradiol. They're all estrogens though
If it says total estradiol it's just estradiol.

What are the first signs of HRT working? I have a paranoid thought that I'm immune to it and I'll just end up looking even manlier than i do now…

>>8610428
Puffy nipples

>>8610428
I'm only about a week on HRT, so…

>>8610429
I've had puffy nipples since I was 13.

>>8610356
That seems low. Assuming exponential decay, you would need to take it every 2 hours with your current dose and route of administration in order to stay above 200 pg/mL. Obviously that's unreasonable.

Are you using oral estradiol? You may want to consider switching to sublingual, patches, or injections. Your dose (6 mg) is normal, so I suspect that a bulk of it is being metabolized into other things (e.g., estrone or estriol).

>>8610356
>>8610456
Talk to your doctor before making changes, obviously. I'm just a stranger on the internet with no medical training.

>>8610435
T R U T R A N S

>>8610468
Or fat

>>8610456
Sublingual. My T levels are in a good spot so I really don't know what the heck is going on. I always try to minimize swallowing but maybe I'm been doing something wrong when taking the pills.

>>8610473
You're not necessarily doing anything wrong. Different people's bodies behave differently.

so i have hip pains and pretty well developing tits that are noticeable af 5 months in

is that a sign that hrt is working

>>8610488
Do you think it's time to (forcefully) ask to be put on injections? Last time I did my endo said injections being better was a myth.

>>8610471
Honestly back then I used to be a little bit fat, on the higher end of correct BMI. But I'm not fat now (depression made me lose about 10kg in about a year), however my nipples are still puffy and they hurt when i touch them. Also I've been on some low-dosage blockers for more than half a year and I noticed that they actually grew a bit?? They also seem kind of fuller and harder inside. But I'm not sure at all, it may be placebo.
>>8610468
Yes, I am trutrans, you probably do too. Honestly this meme is very problematic as it makes people repress and stay in denial.

>>8610504
>Honestly this meme is very problematic as it makes people repress and stay in denial.
Then why do you endorse it?
>Yes, I am trutrans

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>>8610502
You could show your endo those slides linked earlier in the thread.

>>8610519
Wow, thanks WPATH!

>>8610519
Reading this actually makes me upset if that's the case. God I'm so pissed.

>>8610511
I am trutrans just like everyone else is (except some few people who actually are just misguided, but they will find out by themselves eventually). I'm not endorsing it.

So is Spiro the better option if I want the option to go back to being a boy?

>>8610540
>I am trutrans just like everyone else is (except some few people
>I'm not endorsing it.
Listen to yourself.

>>8610549
Do you care about fertility?

>>8606605
Bumping this question. Does anyone have information about spiro+ralox? Has anyone here taken those two together?

So, I am caught by my parents and I have to transition three years from now. I would be 27 then. I think I have a chance at passing at 24. How much would I not likely to pass after three years? My skeleton has grown to fullest already. Would three years matter that much?

Also, if I can't transition, I would like to stop masculinization as much as possible. Is it possible to hold off masculinization with blockers and small doses of estrogen?

>>8610563
Not in the slightest. I was planning to get a vasectomy anyway.

>>8610560
Ugh, i know we're derailing the thread, but at least try to understand what i mean. What I'm saying is that we should not judge whether someone is "trutrans" or not based on some arbitrary factors, just like people here do a lot.
>you're not trutrans because you're not straight
>you're not trutrans because you didn't know you're trans in your early childhood
>you're not trutrans because you don't wear dresses everyday
>you're not trutrans because you don't conform to traditional gender roles
(AKA totally legit unbiased diagnostic factors)
The word "trutrans" means nothing but "true transgender person". And EVERYONE who's trans is a true transgender person; we should not gatekeep trans people making their life suck even more.

>>8610581
>>8610585
Three years matters. Men continue to grow more masculine well into middle age. You can take blockers alone, but you will likely develop osteoporosis after a while. In the absence of testosterone, even low doses of estradiol will cause some breast growth. You could consider taking blocks with a SERM, but that's not well tested.

A better idea would be to figure out to stop being subject to your parents' control. Why do they have power over you? What can you do to fix that?

>>8610588
Good, because all testosterone blockers come with a risk of infertility. The only other significant non-reversible effect that I know of is breast growth. Breast growth occurs when there is low testosterone and moderate estrogen.
- Spiro and cypro both lower testosterone levels without significantly increasing estrogen. However, there is still a fair risk of breast growth with both (about 50% if I remember correctly).
- Bica blocks testosterone, but increases estrogen, so it is not a good choice if you want to avoid breast growth (90% risk).
Note that taking testosterone blockers alone for an extended period of time can cause osteoporosis. One option is to take testosterone blockers alongside a SERM with antiestrogenic effects in breast tissue, such as raloxifene. However, this is not well-studied and carries some risk (read: you'll be a lab rat).

>>8610592
I'm not the person you're responding to, but >>8610468 was me and I was just making a joke. Sorry for derailing the thread.

>>8610628

College Tuition is one. There is nothing I can do about that.

>>8610645
Find a job, take loans. I worked full time during college. It wasn't fun, but I made it.

>>8610628
Still, would effects of estrogen lessen if I take them three years later from now?

Anyways, thanks.

>>8610592
Someone is questioning and wants to know if they should transition. What advice do they get? "Everyone is trans except the few people who are mistaken and will find that out for themselves." So helpful!

>legit unbiased diagnostic factors
As if there are any.

>And EVERYONE who's trans is a true transgender person; we should not gatekeep trans people making their life suck even more.
We shouldn't gatekeep trans people, except a few trans aren't trans and don't know it, so gatekeeping them is fine, and how do you professionally distinguish them from the actual trans people again? Oh yeah, gatekeeping.

>>8610651
No, the effects of estrogen do not lessen with age. However, many of the effects of testosterone are not reversible, so three years on testosterone could be a significant hindrance in your transition.

>>8610661

Thank you. I might go with low dose of HRT and see how it goes. I will come to decision soon enough.

>>8610657
We shouldn't gatekeep anyone and let people figure out by themselves if they're mistaken.

>>8610657
nah we shouldn't gatekeep at all. let people learn for themselves. if they have to actually transition to finally figure out that they're not trans, that's their problem to solve, not ours

>>8610688
>>8610696
>let people figure out by themselves if they're mistaken.
>if they have to actually transition to finally figure out that they're not trans, that's their problem to solve, not ours.
>this is what transgenders actually believe

>>8610688
I agree there and stand by the other two points.

>>8610628
I was asking about Spiro instead of cypro because I heard Cypro destroys testosterone production and Spiro only blocks it while you are taking it? So that means I could potentially go back to being a boy if I decided I made a mistake if I use Spiro?

>>8610705
There's really not much I can do to stop people through a post on an anonymous image board.

>>8610705
>if they have to actually transition to finally figure out that they're not trans, that's their problem to solve, not ours.
HRT is reversible…

>>8610840
Tell that to someone's who's been on T for a year.

>>8610696
>>8610707

>>8610850
it's reversible still, the same way trans women can "reverse" the T changes by taking HRT

>>8610894
I think you're forgetting voice and facial hair.

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>>8610903

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>>8610912

>>8610919
yeah, because one year of T will make you have a shadow. 90% trans guys would wish it to be true

Cismale here, does Spiro (100mg a day) block DHT, I'm thinking about taking it for hair loss.
Also, will 100mg of Spiro per day kill gains?

>>8611697
I'm already on finasteride/minox btw but its not working as well as i want

>>8611697
Spiro will reduce T which will reduce DHT. It can be combined with fina.
And yeah it'll probably contribute to some muscle loss

Is there any difference in taking your estradiol through buccal administration (absorbing the pills in your gums) as opposed to regular sublingual? I've been trying this and I think it helps prevent me from salivating so much. My levels should in theory be the same through this route of administration, right?

>>8594014
Does anyone have experience with E patches ? how should they be used?

>>8611712
Not the same anon but i'm wondering, doesn't low t causes hair loss too? I'm going to take cypro 25mg wich is stronger than spiro, already on fina.

>>8604658
Anyone else have this experience I feel like cause I still look like a twink they are fucking me over this doesn't sound normal why wouldn't they monitor t and e levels? And 100mgs spiro fuck isn't that like way too low I mean I get I look like a femboi but I'd rather my t stay nuked since I was on 50-25 milligrams of cypro. Yet some how my t survived I've been getting a lot of boners lately fucking gross every morning and before I didn't I thought going legit was the right thing to do I mentioned injections and she said that they are expensive and not in huge supply like I'm 28 I've been on hrt since I was 23 I look exactly the fucking same except my body but I'm noticing that's looking worse too when it looked amazing is this normal to fuck over someone like this shit I get it's my first month legit but I've been self med for five fucking years.

>>8612097
It's kind of pathetic how shit some endos are when you can diy and get better results. The only thing stopping me from doing that again is costs and a seeming lack of resources in buying injectable E online.

Going from 25mg cypro to 200mg Spiro, diy to prescription. Will this be better or worse??

>>8612136
About the same in my experience. On 25 mg cypro I was at 14ng/dl, and on 200 mg spiro I was at 11ng/dl.

>>8612145
ah, excellent.

>>8611697
Get out faggot

>>8610435
You can feel a lump under them in ~4 weeks

>>8612126
Yeah it is honestly I'm not really even trans so that prob came across even tho I went to my appointment in a dress. I got really sick from self medicating actually had to go to the er from withdrawals when I didn't have money for cypro and they found out my liver enzymes are shit so that's all pp is monitoring my liver and potassium. I'm definitely asking them to monitor my levels properly.

As for injections you can order them
Online even better if you get a script I don't think inhouse has a shortage atm.

>>8612077
Yes, it causes generalized thinning all over your head, not MPB though.

I just started the process for legit HRT. I'm in Canada and apparently, you can't test for estrone. My doctor said he is going to start me off on spiro, and then add estrogen one by one to see if I get a negative reaction to any of the medication, I don't know if he wants to start with low dosages though. Does this seem like it's reasonable? I ordered cypro and estrofem from QHI a week ago(it'll probably get here within the next week) because that's what I was planning on starting off with, but I don't know if I want to wait 3+ weeks from now to at least start nuking my T. Should I self-med, after I get my blood tested, with the pills that I ordered until I go legit and can get on patches?

How much is breast growth on Spiro affected? I'm switching from 25mg to 200mg and I've read that because of cypro's progesterone properties it's better for breast growth.

>>8613160
Why not just ask your doctor to give you cypro?

>>8613748
He said that the thing with cypro is that it raises prolactin, which is a risk for Prolactinoma. So he wants to start his patients with spiro to see if they don't need anything more to lower their T, but I asked why not switch to cypro after a little bit and see if everything is good.

>>8613763
Spiro is a garbage AA.
Cypro is more similar to Lupron and other GnRH agonists. If you're under 24-25ish it's a really bad idea not to use GnRH agonists or cypro.
LH and FSH are tied to HGH. They give early transitioners GnRH agonists because of its effects on HGH, and if you're not going to use something like Lupron then cypro is your next best bet as it also will directly affect LH and FSH via it's actions on leydig cells in your testes.
Spiro only affects testosterone way way upsteam at your adrenals and has no direct actions in the testes and no real direct action on LH, FSH, or HGH.

There's also the whole issue that spiro basically destroys your kidneys. I guess cypro is hard on the liver and occasionally in rare situations causes hyperprolactinemia but the majority of people prefer cypro as overall it's side effects are less.

>>8613776
I will show talk to him about this when I'm going to start getting the meds, thanks. I'm also probably going to take it as soon as I get my shit from QHI.

I will show him this, and talk to him about it*

>>8613789
If he's not familiar with trans stuff he may be confused about GnRH agonists, because traditionally GnRH agonists increase HGH, but in early transitioners they flood their body with GnRH agonists which causes a temporary massive spike in LH, FSH, and HGH which after about 10-25 days will completely nuke your LH, FSH, and consequently reduce HGH.

If you gave spiro to an early transitioner they'd still most likely grow as tall as normal men, and end up with normal male sized hands, feet, fingers, etc. because their HGH is at male levels.

>>8613807
Would this still apply even though I'm 18, almost 19? He's the only person who does informed consent in Montreal, so he should know at least a little. Unfortunately, when I talked to him about the estrone ratio problem with pills, he didn't seem to understand what I was getting at. I clarified a second time, and he still kind of didn't get it.

>>8613828
Most likely yes since your skeletal structure grows until you're around 22-25ish years old, after that your skeletal structure undergoes bone remodeling which is a different process than bone modeling which will cease in your mid-20s

>>8613836
Quick question, will I get any noticeable feminizing of the skeleton, and, if possible, reversing of the effects of testosterone, at least a little bit?

>>8613852
It's possible.

Here's the study on HGH and cypro
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2939014

Here's a good discussion that explains the stages of bone growth:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_difference_between_bone_turnover_and_bone_remodeling
It explains the difference between burn turnover, bone growth, bone modelling, and bone remodelling.
Your body will undergo bone turnover and bone remodelling throughout your entire life and the actions of osteoclasts and osteoblasts are affected by hormones.

>>8613870
You've convinced me to take cypro asap, and never get off it. How much of a pain will it be to my doctor to deal with me taking cypro before he gets to make sure I'm fully healthy and at a dosage that might be higher than he would like at first(50mg)?

>>8613909
Maybe ask him if he's okay doing it on kind of an "informed consent" type basis and that you accept the health risks.

>>8613925
The thing is, if he's not okay with it, will he deny me help? Because, in Canada the only way for me to get estrogen in a form other than patches, is by going legit. I can't find shit on the darknet for estrogen that is in patch form, and no online pharmacies that sell without prescriptions ship to Canada. Also, I can't test for estrone, or get private blood tests, so I won't even be able to tell if I'm getting fucked by estrone on pills, which is the only way I can get estrogen without my doctor.

>>8613965
All GPs in Canada are allowed to do informed consent. That doesn't mean he has to give you cypro but if he throws a shitfit and refuses to treat you just go to another GP and let them know you plan on self-medding with cypro and they'll get you a prescription.
You don't have to go to lgbt doctors in doctors, all doctors here can do HRT in any province.

>>8613974
He was telling me how doctors aren't comfortable starting the treatment, but when I'm stable he can just transfer me to a doctor that's willing. If I say that I'm self-medding will they just give me a prescription so that it's safer and give me the paper to do blood tests whenever I need to monitor my levels?

>>8614010
He might, but he might be pretty stubborn and not do it though lol

Maybe he's not even aware that mtf's don't need a normal dosage of cypro. He might be thinking of cancer dosages which are 200-300mg/day whereas for trans stuff you only need 25-50mg to start and cut down to 12.5mg eventually.

>>8614048
Well I hope it all works out, and I'll regurgitate all of the information that I know to help.

>>8594014
>know I shouldn't smoke while on HRT
>urge is driving me mad

AHHHHHHHHH

Hi,

I've been out on 12.5 mg cypro and 2 mg estrace for 4 months by my doctor. This is incredibly low right? Like, there's no way I have even remotely consistent levels even if they do peak at female benchmarks is there?

>>8614473
You might be just fine. What are your hormone levels?

>>8614475
I have no idea. I was self medding 200mg spiro and 4mg progy for 6 months before going legit and he decided to start me out at 12.5/2 for four months without followup. I'll have a blood test to actually see in like 2 weeks.

>>8614483
That might be alright. It's tough to say. You were self-medding before which may have reduced some testicular function enough to be just fine on 12.5mg of cypro

>>8614492
I hope to god. Ive been anxious enough about this for 4 months now. He also seemed really skeptical to changing dosage based off of blood tests, which I find especially worrying considering with only one dose of 2 mg of estrace daily my levels will be much lower for most of the day than they will be in the blood test.

>>8614527
Seems odd that he wouldn't do an initial test and a 2 week followup.
That's usually pretty standard just to check your liver to make sure you're not dying.

>>8614533
One last question. Only sublingual e right? Don't sublingual blockers or fin or progesterone? I kinda know not to, but why?Why does the first pass metabolism stuff apply to e but not them?

>>8614611
It has slow metabolism and excretion, no need for alternative absorption methods

>>8613807
wouldn't blockers alone result in more growth as well since no estrogen either and you'd be as tall as Pejic

if you were a 19yo cismale losing hair rapidly would you take hrt to stop it, im on fin/minox but its not really working
idk if its worth it or not

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So I'm taking a pill called Primogyn which is 2mg of estradiol valerate, daily, orally. It's the one on the left.

I researched and I looks the same as Progynova, it's even made by the same lab, it just has a different name but the pills kinda look the same.

I know progynova can be taken sublingually, does that mean that I could take Primogyn sublingually too?

>>8604658
Why was your liver messed up? Was it caused by the drugs alone or did alcohol effect it too?

Does estrogen/AAs make weight loss easier? Will it make gaining weight to redistribute harder?

>>8614902
makes it harder to lose fat, you will lose muscle mass with no T, you don't redistribute fat, all surplus will be stored on top of what you already have, then if you burn your body will use all sources of fat equally

its highly advised to get slim before HRT

>>8614926
Cool, thanks. I'm down like 30 lbs, on track to lose more, so I should be alright by the time I can get hormones.

Hopefully I can get to like 175lbs within a month or so. ~6'

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>>8614812
A-anyone?

>>8614789
Yeah you'd need to match your E to roughly cis levels throughout life to mimic bone growth and bone modeling as well as bone turnover and bone fusion.
Puberty blockers like megadosing GnRH agonists or using cypro won't result in female skeletal features since as I mentioned osteocytes are hormonally controlled

Okay lets say I'm repressed and live with an extremely conservative, bigoted, family in the bible and happen to be much of an autistic neet to have any close friends or a job but I'm still young and feminine enough as a legal adult pre HRT to have a real chance of passing if I start transitioning now but I can't do it where I live now for obvious reasons, plus my family hardly lets me have any privacy and since I live under their roof I can't really argue with them. So would this >>8608687 suggestion that this anon mentioned from the other thread be a good idea then? I'm not really an emotional wreck or anything maybe I get depressed every couple of months but I never lash out at people, I wouldn't even hurt a fly.

Cont 1/2

>>8615033
I don't hate everyone in my family like my older brother for example but I don't want to live with my bossy dad who keeps telling me to just man up or be with my crazy religious mother everyday anymore but I wouldn't just go without at least leaving a note behind explaining that I decided to move out, I wouldn't to make them think I've been kidnapped or anything like that obviously. And of course I'd try and find a guy who isn't crazy or abusive and doesn't mind helping me get my life together. I just want a caring, loving daddy or even maybe a mommy who will buy hormones for me let me be me and show my affection for in return since I wouldn't want to ne selfish.

Cont 2/2

>>8615033
>>8615116
Yeesh.

If you go that route, props to ya. I could never rely on someone like that.

Outside of that, if you can find an easy laid back job, use public computers to set up a po box and order your stuff to have it shipped to it.

No one at home would ever know unless you forgot a shipment and they sent a reminder to your home address.

Just an idea I guess.

>>8615116
not buying your own hormones is selfish tho.

>>8615135
Well once I get my life together and start actually living as a woman I'd like to get a simple job that helps with basic things as well as having some spending money, I'm sure there's something I can do.

>>8615137
It wouldn't be selfish if I was a love wIfe or daughter not to mention I hate the idea of taking without giving in return.

>>8613412
some1 pls help

>>8615247
Trading sex for pills isn't love it's prostitution.

>>8615284
that's literally what a crack addict does.

>>8615268
yeah cypro gives you more prolactin and supposedly more bewbs, also spiro dehydrates, so you'd have less swell bewbs but that's superficial

>>8615247
be a strong independent woman who needs no man, you can become an online pajeet to do simple tasks like sorting pages for search optimizing and easily earn enough for HRT and striped socks working maybe 10 hrs a week

>>8615475
>yeah cypro gives you more prolactin and supposedly more bewbs, also spiro dehydrates, so you'd have less swell bewbs but that's superficial
Cypro is not guaranteed to give more prolactin. Cypro is progestogenic. It is not guaranteed to raise prolactin and it does not necessarily result in hyperprolactinemia. Which is a good thing. You do not want high prolactin, or abnormal thyroid conditions.
It highly depends on the health of your thyroid and pituitary gland.

The side effects of cypro are so exaggerated because for cancer the dosages are 200-300mg/day with some people requiring 400-600mg/day. If any transsexual is taking anything beyond 50mg/day they are basically a victim of natural selection at that point. There's almost no reason to take beyond 25mg/day given that you can adequately sequester T production at 12.5mg/day and by simply altering E dosage and getting blood tests to determine adequate E dosage. Realistically doing anything above 12.5 is for convenience not for any methodological reasoning
Lowering AA dosage and raising E dosages requires more blood tests whereas raising AA dosage and lowering E dosage requires less blood tests. Doctors will opt for less tests as it's not only cheaper it requires less effort on their part.

>>8615971
Basically what I'm getting at is 50mg cypro and 2mg E is the same as 12.5 mg cypro and 6mg E.
But it depends on your tests.
Estradiol downregulates test. Many people with low T do not need AAs.

>>8615977
also 6mg E becomes quite expensive

Hello HRTgen, I have a few questions about starting hrt, is that okay?

Soooo, here goes. I'm pretty sure I'm trans, but given my personal situation actually transitioning full time isn't really an option. Doesn't really matter why, just is. I think I can be okay with staying in boymode, but I want to be as feminine as I can anyway. I also want to maintain sexual function.

SO, I guess with that in mind what sort of hormone regime should I look for?

I've read Bicalutamide as an AA doesn't tend to stop penis function as much as other AAs, is that correct? Is there a good link to more information, or should I look at something else?

As for estrogen, I don't really know. Is there anything I can do to minimize breast growth? I guess I'm aiming for femboy at this point. Passing would be amazing, but I need to be able to present as male sometimes...

are the effects of Cypro reversible? And when people talk about the infertility, does that mean semen is infertile, or is it erectile dysfunction?
I am talking about the side effect of infertility after stopping hormones.

So I've been on HRT for about a month now and I still don't notice any changes, I'm starting to worry now that I got the bad lottery ticket and I'm destined to be a hon

Do I have to fill out a disclaimer like QHI's for Inhouse? What are the pros and cons of the two?

>>8617292
A month in I had no changes except some nipple swelling and no more BO. Now I pass at 4 months.

>>8616956
>maintain sexual function.
any estrogen introduced to your regimen will make you infertile without fail

>>8617542
I should have been more clear, sorry. I don't care about fertility, I don't intend to have kids. I just mean most penis function otherwise (erections etc.)

>>8606605
>>8610573
>answer questions for several other people
>no one answers my question

>>8617584
Bica gives ED same as any other AA.
If you want full sexual function don't take hrt.

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>>8617465
I haven't used either, but based on what I've read, these are the pros/cons:
>QHI
Cheap, discreet packaging, based in a country that won't raise questions if someone else sees the package.
>IHP
Accepts bitcoin, fast shipping, nothing to sign.
>>8617292
It takes a couple months before anything noticeable happens.

>>8617616
Is being taken by customs really a huge risk with IHP?

>>8617656
Customs rarely seizes things period lol
Most drug dealers on tor have around 98-99% of packages get through and they're shipping actual illegal drugs

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>>8617656
No.

>>8617669
>>8617671
Lol, fair enough. Guess IHP it is probably. Thanks

>>8594014
Cypro is meant to be taken at night, due to sedative effects, right? But how strong is this effect?

I have college classes during the night (7pm to 11pm) and i'm scared cypro will impact in my studies... You can't do maths while asleep lol. What should i do?


Also another question about E, i've found only 1mg sublingual pills here while valerate (the one i should swallow) is 2mg pills and way cheaper. Can i use sublingual E for a month then switch to oral pills without problems?

>>8617292
Take a look at the chart in OP, things start to change at the third month, give it 8+ months for important changes.

Could I be immune to hrt? I've been on E for a week and I feel absolutely zero difference, compared to how it was on blockers alone.

>>8619352
>one week
take my opinion with quite a few grains of salt because im not on hrt and never have been but I'd wait more than a week before panicking

>>8617591
Well of course it's going to have an effect, I just want to minimise it.

>>8619388
You're going to get ED no matter what.
If you're trans don't take bica or spiro. Posted a couple times about how LH and FSH are tied to HGH. You'd be risking your future over your dick by avoiding cypro or using things such as lupron.

If your penis is so important to you then you need to reorganize your priorities

>>8619394
That's not ture.

>>8619429
It's true to the extent that sexual dysfunction isn't necessarily just limp dick.
I'm on cypro and e and yeah, I can get erect if I try, but I have less jizz, it's clear, and my orgasms take like a millenium to achieve and I need anal to do it

If you don't want the effects of hrt don't do it. Tired of all these crossdresser fetishists doing hrt and whining when their dick doesn't work like cis dudes dicks. It's almost like pharmaceuticals have biological effects, wow what a surprise.

>>8619441
>>8619429
Wanting some form of sexual function doesn't make me some "crossdresser fetishist", and I'm not whining about anything. I would like to maintain as much function as possible, that's all. Why are you so upset?

>>8619455
Because if you were trans you wouldn't care. You'd value feminization above your dick.
You're risking your future over your penis

>>8619462
Also you can still have sexual release on hrt. Jerking off is not necessary.
I use anal plus hitachi wand on my dick despite no erection

>>8619441
That's none of your concern if other people value their sexual life or possibility to have children, don't give bad advice or scold people for being different from you please.

>>8619477
Lmao it's about side effects of drugs not "scolding" get real

>>8619462
Did I say I value my penis more than feminisation?
>>8619474
If it were just for my own release, I wouldn't care at all. I have sexual partners though, and while there are plenty of ways around using a dick, I wanted to ask.
>>8619487
You sound borderline.

Also, that was only the smaller part of my post, did you even read the rest?

>>8619492
You're going to have to make a choice of whether you value your own future above your partners. Welcome to adulthood

>>8619352
I had a nasty migraine in the first week but other than that didn't notice anything. Felt a lot better mentally by the end of the first month and I think breast buds started during the second.

It takes time.

>>8619487
So keep it about the side effects and drop the "you are not trans if you have other concerns" crap

>>8619492
Also
>borderline
it's called living in the real world. When you give up a huge chunk of your life at the expense of another that's called a gamble. You're playing with statistics and statistics have no empathy or remorse. If you're not comfortable with the effects of hrt abd you're legit trans you are gambling and you will reep the rewards of such a decision
>>8619506
I am actually sorry for saying such things. I get carried away, sorry.

>>8619494
See what I mean about you sounding borderline?

>>8619506
All I asked about was side effects, effects, thank you.

I don't really care if you think I'm twue twans or whatever.

>>8619521
I don't believe in tru trans bs. I believe hormones should be freely accessed but I just find it hilarious when futa fetishists try to live out their fetishes then whine when their dick fails cause SERMs aren't what they thought they were. It's almost like SERMs are research chems

So the closest gender therapist is 3 hours away from me. This will be very difficult to get to as I don't have any support and no car. Should I just force a GP to give me the prescriptions by saying I am going to self-med?

>tfw just enough money to take 100mg of spiro and 2mg of progynova
Should I stop until I can afford the right dosage? Or should I just continue like this?

>>8619676
Didn't work with me.

How long does it take for testosterone levels to go back up after stopping spiro and estrogen?

>>8620119
How so? You mean he didn't give it to you even though you threatened to self-med?

>>8615004
They're the same thing. both Estradiol Valerate. Not sure about taking it sublingually.

>>8620312
not that person, but mine basically told me "don't do that", and said he'd refer me to a psych, which i can't afford.

And now that i've been taking them (for a year), same deal, but at least he orders bloodwork when I ask

>>8620413
Nice, my plan has just gone out the window then.

Any advice on reducing breast growth pain?
Sometimes I get periods of time where I can't even move my upper body without getting cramps because it hurts so much

>>8621307

>>8603388
"conetits" are a normal part of early breast development, it's how they look before fat redistribution rounds them out as they develop more. If you want to help with breast growth take progesterone.