Research chemicals for AAs, SERMs, etc.

I haven't heard about that but I'm definitely interested now

>>8581251
It's not exceedingly expensive and it looks like a number of supplement companies are shoving it into their pills these days
https://ca.iherb.com/pr/enzymatic-therapy-ostivone-ipriflavone-bone-health-90-veggie-caps/2202

Not sure if it would actually do anything though and it'd be like $30-$40/month though

RU58841 is pretty big in the hairloss community. You buy it from a Chinese company called Kane's Pharmacy. But they dilute it and then apply it topically.

>>8581268
Umm I'm a dumb HSTS, can someone explain what this is supposed to mean? Does it shrink bone or something?

>>8581531
Well it decreases the activity of osteoclasts and increases activity of osteoblasts which are responsible for bone remodelling. Whether that means it changes to female shapes I'm not sure lol

A compound derived from soy has estrogenic effects on bone growth and /pol/ hasn't ran this yet.

>>8581611
That's not even the neatest one, trimethoxyisoflavone is basically supposed to turn you into wolverine
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0944711313004194?via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16806170

>>8581512
Yeah the research antiandrogens haven't been too interesting for me.
I've just been looking up a lot of synthetic isoflavones lately because a lot of them are low-activity at the breasts, they're ridiculously high activity on bones and other tissues, plus they're not processed by the liver so there's very little health risk, and they're usually strong antiandrogens themselves so you don't need any antiandrogens.

>>8581719
what would activity on the bones actually do? assuming you're not young enough for normal estrogen to do its thing anyway

>>8581743
I don't think it's ever been researched. Nobody has actually looked at what happens to bones when switching hormones.

Cause in cis people they say past a certain age only the microscopic structure is changed:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_difference_between_bone_turnover_and_bone_remodeling
>Bone Growth (from 4th month of fetal life, after the development of ossification centers, until the end of the somatic growth – about 20-22 years of age): it consists in dimensional increase of skeletal segments by activity of osteoblasts only.
>Bone Modeling (from 4th month of fetal life, after the onset of bone growth, until the end of the somatic growth – about 20-22 years of age): it consists in macroscopic changes of the shape of skeletal segments by independent activity (on different surfaces) of osteoblasts and osteoclasts.
>Bone Remodeling (it appears in the 6th month of fetal life and lasts for life): it consists in microscopic changes of bone structure by coupled activity (on the same surface with temporal sequence) of osteoclasts (first) and osteoblasts (later).

But maybe it's different in trans people cause of the rapid hormonal shift which is basically the only reason I've been interested in it lol
A lot of trans people say they've seen skeletal changes over the course of 10-20 years to being more feminine so I think it does help to have high estrogen activity on bones. But then again it's all anecdotal stuff and mostly from hons that think they're feet and hands shrunk....

>>8581768
so the question I have right now is whether you actually *want* a high BFR. couldn't this be thought of as reinforcing the current bone structure, where you would want high bone remodeling rate?

>>8582137
That is kind of my worry that perhaps it will just "freeze" bone development as is and you'll be stuck like how you are.
I know megadosing on estrogen while young fuses bones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Treatment
>In July 2004, Ashley had a hysterectomy (to prevent menstruation) and surgical removal of her nascent breast buds (to prevent development). She also underwent an appendectomy. The surgery was performed at Seattle's Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center. In addition, in December 2006 she completed estrogen therapy through dermal patches, which sped up the natural closure of her growth plates.

If you have high osteoclast activity it simply results in porous bones though, it doesn't reduce it just on the surface as far as I'm aware. But osteoblasts build up off the surface and outward. Their activity is hormonal as well. Both testosterone and estrogen modulate their activity. Cause eunuchs have very high osteoclast activity which results in osteoporosis.

>>8581768
>I don't think it's ever been researched. Nobody has actually looked at what happens to bones when switching hormones.

maybe do a quick google before you make statements like this.

https://courses.washington.edu/bonephys/esteffects.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8865143

>>8582174
That wasn't even remotely close to what I was talking about.....

Testosterone and estrogen change osteoclast/osteoblast behaviour and I was referring to the effects of switching from being predominantly controlled by test to being predominantly controlled by estrogen, which only occurs in trans people, which has never been researched.

>>8582179
>has never been researched

WE WUZ SPACE VOYAGERS!!

>>8582233
guinea pigs*

>>8581226
what's to prevent me from ordering this from ebay

>>8584630
nothing?

>>8584630
Well nothing but it's not really researched
The company selling "ostivone" is lying about there being 60 studies. There's been one lol
Everything else was done in animals and it is a synthetic chemical, not a natural product like they claim.

File: isoflavoneralox.png (37KB, 1739x2407px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 1739x2407px

According to this article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638921/
Using pic related should be significantly healthier than raloxifene and tamoxifen. It's not processed by the liver and will be an antioxidant like other isoflavones

It has about 15% of the binding affinity to ERb and 2% of the binding affinity to ERa. Which is still pretty strong. It would probably require lower dosages than ralox but it's probably significantly safer for your liver than ralox and tamoxifen so you could use whatever dosage is needed.

Here's some more stuff on causing induced bone modelling:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0021929094900108
>We propose that the osteocytes, although not responsive to substantial fluid pressures, can be stimulated by relatively small fluid shear stresses acting on the membranes of their osteocytic processes.
Kind of goes along with this article:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S8756328298001185

Here's another chemical that might help, they used sclerostin:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.081206/full
>Sclerostin is expressed almost exclusively in bone, specifically by osteocytes,(8–10) which are specialized cells of the osteoblast lineage found embedded within bone matrix. With their extensive cytoplasmic connections to one another and to the osteoblasts and bone-lining cells (dedifferentiated osteoblasts) located on bone surfaces, osteocytes were long ago postulated to act as bone mechanosensors(32,33) and to exert control over bone formation and bone mass

There's also this:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Janos_Kanczler/publication/5399170_Osteogenesis_and_angiogenesis_The_potential_for_engineering_bone/links/0912f50f7e29b94d29000000.pdf
Maybe just fuck up your hips and use that to rebuild them better? haha

>>8581226
I'm looking into SERMs lately. I'm on tamoxifin. I'm sure there are less-liver-cancerous alternatives, but for now... shrug.

>>8591558
Tamoxifen and raloxifene just seem kind of sketchy to me. There's a lot of health risks it seems.
I don't think it would be feasible to be on them your entire life so I think it's best to try and find alternatives, or use a combination of weaker but safer SERMs.
A lot of SERMs don't have the same anti-boob potency that tam and ralox have but they're at least safer. I'd rather have tiny boobs and be healthy than to keel over at 40 years old due to a blood clot aneurysm.

>>8591600
Right. I am not wanting breasts. I didn't know there were others like me...
Wish I could get hips to balance out my shoulders...
You and I are in the same boat. Is there a Discord for this stuff?

>>8591612
I'd probably be okay with boobs actually, maybe not like huge ones cause at the moment I just can't work with that. At the moment I'm not using SERMs and I haven't gotten huge tits yet thankfully.
I'm actually more interested in SERMs for changing skeletal structure, I'm just not sure if it would actually work.

Femgen has a discord I believe.