Why the hell

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>>8579276

daily reminder that if you think agp isnt real then you are a big dum dum.

the only people that care about saying its fake are just ashamed of being agp.

we are all men with chemical problems in our brain, doesnt mean we arent real transwomen.

>>8579320
I'm an FtM and Blanchard's shit is fake. What now?

Meta-attraction is real, but tons of people who aren't trans also experience it and it's not an especially useful way of classifying trans people.

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>>8579320
Blanchard is literal aids. If I believed in your stupid meme terms id be hsts, but I don't because Blanchard is a total fucking hack and the people who believe in his bullshit are brainlets who want an easy answer to why gender dysphoria exists.

>>8579276
i probably wouldn't if i wasn't a textbook example of an AGP mtf since i was a child
thankfully i'm only anatomically AGP/dysphoric and already started HRT at 24 so I'll never break down and go turbohon

>he's a big dum dum
>b-b-b-but we can't actually dispute his theories
:thinks:

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>>8579349
>ftm
i only speak to real men thank you, aka mtfs and cis men.
>>8579359
I dont want an easy answer.

AGP and HSTS's are very real. All of the trans people i know irl fit perfectly in those two categories.

If agp was a seperate thing from blanchard then you wouldnt be denying it

>>8579377
They've been discussed, that's why the medical community disregards his theories. I'm saying that its getting real damn annoying that nothing relating to trans people can be discussed without blanchard's typology being discussed as though it was gospel. Is this /Blanchard/ now? Sorry if I missed the fucking memo that this board changed its focus to discussing the theories of some discredited Canadian doctor that no one would even know about I'd he hadn't started shilling his shit here and planting a seed of pseudoscience that would end up taking over the whole damn board. You people talk about Blanchard like people talk about astrology and its fucking tired.

>>8579382
No I would thanks, stop assuming my intentions. Blanchard's theories as a whole deserve nothing but scorn and dismissal, not discussion as though it was just obvious and should form the foundation of discussion regarding trans people.

>>8579409
wait what you don't think AGP exists at all? what am i then?

I think a lot of them just have a mentality of "It's controversial, so it must be right!", as many supporters of pseudoscience often do. Although, I think there's also the element of people who fall into the "HSTS" category using the false dichotomy of the typology as a method of validating their status of being trans. This would help them change the "Oh god, I might be transgender. I don't want to be a freak!" mindset to one of "I'm not like those perverted freaks! My transition is actually justified!" essentially moving the burden of being a "freak" to agp people, rather than transgender people as a whole.

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>>8579409
> Blanchard's theories as a whole deserve nothing but scorn and dismissal,

only people who should be angry at him are the deluded trannies that think they are real women.

>not discussion as though it was just obvious and should form the foundation of discussion regarding trans people.

Well the thing is butthurt trannies that think they are real women say its fake on the anime image place so it has to be brought up uwu

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>>8579457
Well the thing is their is nothing wrong with being agp or hsts.

Both are 100% real transwomen and deserve the same respect.

Theirs probably a lot of shame about being agp, but their is nothing wrong about it and it is just a part of what makes you yourself

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>>8579276
>considering his filth is polluting this sub
>sub
GET. THE. FUCK. OUT.

>>8579382
>i only speak to real men thank you, aka mtfs and cis men.
Weak bait and irrelevant to:
>the only people that care about saying its fake are just ashamed of being agp.

>AGP and HSTS's are very real. All of the trans people i know irl fit perfectly in those two categories.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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>>8579502

>>8579451
A trans person? Or maybe just someone with a fetish? Fetish =/= trans but you may have a fetish in addition to dysphoria, though those aren't the same thing

>>8579527
i'm >>8579362
i am dysphoric so i must be trans i guess
can people even be AGP without being dysphoric eventually?

>>8579474
> it is just a part of what makes you yourself

That's where the shame comes from though. The idea that the dysphoria is purely artificial, and nothing but a manifestation of a fetish is terrifying. I can't in good health put myself in that kind of mindset. In attempting to get rid of my own dysphoria, I feel like a fake, and a burden on those with the "real problems". And because I feel like a fake, I also feel like a man pretending to be a woman, when all I want to be is a woman. Which, in turn, worsens the dysphoria further, and makes me feel like I'm appropriating the struggles of women, etc.

I honestly don't understand how "agp" people can buy into this mindset, aside from through the logic of "Reality sucks, and this sucks, so this must be the sad truth". It's like a masochistic, depressive, psychological atom bomb that destroys most of your hope and self esteem.

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it seems primarily driven by the desire to delegitimise transwomen, especially non-androphilic transwomen, by reducing them to nothing more than men with a fetish

this is great for trolling and also for "HSTS" to feel like they are more valid as women while putting others down

blanchard's typology is a fucking meme and i can't wait til it dies off

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>>8579532
Well you have to figure out if your just a cis guy with agp or if your a trans with agp.

Do it the same way someone figures out if they are trans:

early transgender thoughts as a kid, gender non conforming, wishing to be a girl from an early age,etc. Because if you didnt do anything like that your probably just an agp cis man.

>>8579552

You have to get out of the mindset of agp being a fetish. It is an important part of your sexuality. You have a strong sexual connection with yourself being a female. This is so important to you that it can cause you to be unable to continue your life as a man, because sex and how you view yourself is a very important part of your life.

>>8579276
lmao Blanchard is a joke

>>8579586
>early transgender thoughts as a kid, wishing to be a girl from an early age
i did have this, i wasn't very gender non conforming though
do you really think it matters? what about all the transwomen who weren't gnc at all before transitioning(ex-military etc.)?
also does it matter what they were like as a child if they are dysphoric at present?

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>>8579595
gender non conforming after puberty is not very important.

its much more important if when you were a kid you thought/or wished to be a girl, crossdressed, were gnc, etc. you dont have to be all of those.

it is important to figuring if your actually trans because agp can exists in cis men and can lead to dsyphoria.

you need to look at the earliest part of your life were sexuality and arousal were not factors.

>>8579613
what do you think "dysphoric cis men" should do about it?

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>>8579636
Well either a trans or a cis guy with agp can take hrt.

i guess it depends if you think you could pass/arent some alpha masc 6foot tall guy, or if you are you at least have a plan to get ffs.

Taking hrt for a couple years and seeing if you pass is a good option, just remember that a lot that goes into passing is clothes, makeup, hair/eyebrows,etc and not the actual hormones.

Their isnt really much you can do to just get over agp then repress or cave into it, it is too important of a part of yourself.

>>8579586
>You have to get out of the mindset of agp being a fetish. It is an important part of your sexuality. You have a strong sexual connection with yourself being a female. This is so important to you that it can cause you to be unable to continue your life as a man, because sex and how you view yourself is a very important part of your life.

I still don't see how that changes much tho. It gives a reason to transition, but it doesn't change feeling like a fake or feeling like you're appropriating someone else's struggles to satisfy a perversion. You can call it sexuality, or you can call it a fetish, but the only difference I see is that the former case is lonelier.

>>8579699
well the thing is their are:
cis men with agp: transexuals/cross dressers/ guys with a fetish

and then their are

transwomen with agp

if your the first one then you can look down on yourself for it being fetishy,i wouldnt blame you for doing that.

but if your just a transwoman with agp then you shouldnt feel bad about it. no transwoman will ever be a real woman. agp doesnt invalidate your identity if your actually trans.

>>8579595
Imagine a world where people have different personalities. Imagine if some people are biologically predisposed to social conformity, and some are not, to varying degrees.

Some very basic study into personality theory will rebute the Blanchard typology stuff pretty thoroughly.

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>>8579745
you dont have to be gnc to be a real tranny.
but if you had no thoughts of being a girl/wishing to be a girl at all then your probably not trans or your just an outlier or cis guy with agp caused dysphoria.

>>8579718 >>8579762
So long as you make the case that trans people can have agp too, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. I'm one of the types that chooses to believe that it's just primarily a coping mechanism for dysphoria. I thought you were taking a somewhat more blanchardist-leaning stance on agp.
Although, this: >no transwoman will ever be a real woman.
is kinda depressing on its own.

Btw, what anime is that avatar from?

>>8579790
kantai collection
ill admit that my view on agp is not based 100% on what blanchard thinks but i still believe agp is very real.

>>8579276
>Any ideas on how to defeat blanchard's ideas on here?
One thing that strikes me as surprising, is how long this 'debate' has been going on. Most of the trannies on this board are young, but they're arguing daddy Blachard's points like there hasn't been any research done since he did his 'research'.

I mean, check this out,
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/ray-blanchard.html

I thought we were supposed to be the cool tranny community on the internet, but now we're the self hating psuedo science promoting loser tranny board. Sucks.

And by cool, I mean in like a non hugbox, but helpful info board with nice memes and daily soap opera to watch in mtfg. I hope it goes back to that again.

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>>8580008
>we used to be the cool, non-hugbox trans community
This is why I originally started coming here back when I was 14 (18 now) but since that time this blanchardist shit has really taken over for no good reason.

Take away I guess would be to take a page from the sjw playbook and call out Blanchard terminology whenever you see it, its the only way to prevent other people from being misinformed by letting this bullshit get through unchallenged to young and impressionable people.

>>8579276
>this sub
>sub
Fuck off Reddit normie, this is 4chan, we do not have "subs".

>>8580042
>what is autocorrect
>what is accidentally slipping
I swear to god, you people could argue about anything else I said and yet you and a few other fucking sperglords choose to focus in on a fucking typo due to your weird autism elitism when I've likely been around longer than you have, go fuck yourself you idiot Blanchard hon I spent my teenage years on this fucking site and the fact that I accidentally used a term from a website that I started using AFTER 4chan doesn't invalidate anything I said.

>>8579398
A few months ago there was a big student-researcher vibe here. A number of students seemingly using this place to advance their studies in sexology. Their accomplice was probably Ray Blanchard himself. All hail Ray Blanchard!

You know he browses here. I mean if I were him I sure would

>>8579320
>>8579464
>>8579474
>>8579586
>>8579613
>>8579661
>>8579762
This all sounds like right-wing pseudo-science and the fact that an anime avatarfag is pushing it really does not help convince me otherwise.

>>8580374
Everything posted ITT is pseudoscience. Armchairs love their estoteric knowledge because they think they're OVERTHROWING LE SYSTEM LIKE COPERNICUS WOOOOOOO MEME MAGICK MAKES RIGHT

>>8580066
>autocorrect 'board' into 'sub'
i don't think so

>>8580572
its fair the b button and the s button are right next to each other :')

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>>8580374
do NOT listen to me as im just a right wing pseudo-nazi that hates all non whites fuck the niggers and transbians.
Only reddit sjw "trannys" (agp in denial) are allowed to post on this anime image websitel.

>>8579276
>Does anyone here believe in blanchard's pseudoscientific bullshit?
No.

Because he doesn't have any.

>>8579276
In the matrix too!

>>8582385
The Architect's role was telling revelatory truths the protagonist wants to denies but manages to accept.

>>8579552
>I feel like a fake
>I also feel like a man pretending to be a woman
t. anti-Blanchardian unironically saying Blanchardianism causes shame

>>8579276
>>8579276
Why don't you instead DISPROVE his "pseudoscience"?

Seriously you faggots hate being questioned or criticized, and reject anything which doesn't accept your life style without seeing if it has merit

Your logic is "If its not gay friendly, ITS WRONG, NO MATTER WHAT"

Prove me wrong, faggots.

>>8582655
Shame is a good thing if you are doing something wrong, its a natural impulse to STOP DOING SOMETHING WRONG

>>8582712
But being an AGP isn't doing anything wrong.

>>8582707
http://www.juliaserano.com/av/Serano-CaseAgainstAutogynephilia.pdf

>>8582707
This. You can't disprove it because you're wrong, bitterhons.
>>8582712
Exactly.
>>8583132
AGP is a mental illness, that needs a cure. Indulging it is wrong, as it's making your mental illness worse.

>>8583139
>AGP is a mental illness,
[citation needed]

>that needs a cure.
[citation needed]

>Indulging it is wrong,
[citation needed]

>as it's making your mental illness worse.
[citation needed]

You can't cite shit because you're wrong.

only on /lgbt/ and laura's playground

Wait, why are HSTS real transwomen and not just really gay?

>>8579320
>the only people that care about saying its fake are just ashamed of being agp.
Uh.. what about all of the scientists saying the typology isn't real? No one denies AGP the fetish exists, but the scientific community doesn't accept the idea that it is a cause of dysphoria/transsexuality.

>>8582707
>>8583139
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof#Shifting_the_burden_of_proof

One way in which one would attempt to shift the burden of proof is by committing a logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance. It occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.[4][5]

>>8580008
Nah, most of the people here are young naive idiots.

>>8582707
This has been done thousands of times, with your side always ignoring anything posted to refute it.

>>8585391
>>8585407
It has been proven through every applicable study and there is no evidence against it. It's a no-brainer.

>>8585469
Nice spam but it's not circular.

>>8585439
Then why does the medical community reject it? APA and WPATH have both come out against Blanchard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria#Diagnosis
>The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender dysphoria if the criteria in the DSM-5, are met. The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders category and into a category of its own. The DSM-5 states that at least two of the criteria for gender dysphoria must be experienced for at least six months' duration in adolescents or adults for diagnosis. The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria", after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing. Subtyping by sexual orientation was deleted.
Emphasis on the last line: Blanchard's entire hypothesis - his Transsexual Typology - is based on subtyping by orientation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#DSM-5
>In DSM-5, published in 2013, With autogynephilia (sexual arousal by thoughts, images of self as a female) is a specifier to 302.3 Transvestic disorder (intense sexual arousal from cross-dressing fantasies, urges or behaviors); the other specifier is With fetishism (sexual arousal to fabrics, materials or garments).
The only surviving mention of autogynephilia is as a fetish. As mentioned there is no subtyping by orientation so any DSM references to it are in that context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality#Blanchard.27s_theories_about_sexuality
> Blanchard's ideas about trans women have also been rejected by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), the largest association of medical professionals who provides care for transgender people, as lacking empirical evidence and for stigmatizing behavior instead of focusing on treating distress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_the_Health_of_Transsexual,_Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People

>>8585439
It isn't even treated seriously by actual doctors anymore. Transsexuality is now thought to be primarily biological.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

>>8585537
>APA and WPATH have both come out against Blanchard.
[citation needed] with exact quote please, none of this wikipedia cherry picked weasel words.

>>8585582
lmao

>>8582707
>why don't you disprove my non-falsifiable hypothesis???
lmfao you fell for the oldest trick in the quackery book

>>8582655
Well, yeah. It's true. The "agp/hsts" dichotomy causes shame. Like I said, just because it's sad doesn't mean that it's true. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's false either, although if it is false, that would essentially make pro-blanchardians assholes.

blanchardianism is like being a flat earther but for self-hating trans women who need to externalize it lmao, or terfs.

>>8579276
According to Survey Anon like 20% of the board doesn't think it's bullshit.

>>8585620
it's bs when you try to say agps are what transsexuals are when there is a distinct difference.

>>8585655
AGP doesn't make someone trans, but trans people can be AGP. They're still trans in the same way the other people are.

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>>8585667
but anon...

everyone is agp mind blown

>>8585601
>The "agp/hsts" dichotomy causes shame.
[citation needed]

>>8585655
>it's bs when you try to say agps are what transsexuals are when there is a distinct difference.
Funny how you're incapable of defining it.

>>8585667
>AGP doesn't make someone trans,
You know this how?

>>8585697
Citation: Me.

Shame is an emotion. It's subjective.

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>>8585727
agp is developed behavior for sexual arousal reasons that may have neurological similarities only because everyone has some form of agp fantasy (even cis straight women) but it's motivated for sexual arousal over anything else while transsexualism is a neurological innate sense of gender identity that causes immense despair for anyone who suffers from it so they transition to alleviate it while agps transition to satisfy a sex kink and then realize they took the fetish to far. Why is this so hard to understand for agp people seriously.

>>8585738
Yeah yeah, how was the dichotomy to blame?

>>8585776
>>8579457

>>8585794
Whoops, meant to direct you to this
>>8579552

>>8585768
>Why is this so hard to understand for agp people seriously.
Probably because it's headcanon that doesn't match reality and science.

You still haven't said how to identify the difference by the way. Of course you can't because they're indistinguishable because your theory is bunk.

>>8585768
are you saying that AGPs aren't dysphoric at all? i think the blanchardian view is that due to the fetish the person develops a crossgender identity which then causes them similar dysphoria and is an equally valid reason to transition, which usually makes them happier, if not more successful in life

>>8585821
the way the medical community does it is by having you see a therapist that can confirm and then an endocrinologist that can assess your health. Alot of agps take the self med route because they don't put the effort to actually integrate into society as female.

You need a doctors approval to change your legal documents and get SRS. If you self med that whole time and do not take those steps goodluck integrating into society agp man.

Also why do agps say they justw ant to be femboys but then argue so hard to say they are also trans women it doesnt make fucking sense. They are either in denial about actually be trans or feel guilt that they are taking thier fetish to far.

>>8585802
People shouldn't be ashamed of the truth. If they are, their mentality is the problem, not reality.

>>8585827
I am saying the dysphoria they feel is motivated by thier sexual fantasy and not related to an innate sense of gender identity like transwomen deal with.

>>8585834
The way they do it isn't imagining there are two kinds of AGP like you're claiming (with no evidence, argument or logical reason).

>>8585854
I am not saying that I am saying that transsexualism is not agp because most people even cis people are a little agp are you this dense?

I don't think AGP doesn't exist but even so I think Blanchard's theories are downright absurd. They present an extremely inaccurate portrayal of transgender people, not to mention how incomplete it is as well, while pretending to be complete, causing implications of bisexual erasure.

>>8585861
You just said there is fake dysphoria caused by AGP and real dysphoria that presumably causes AGP.

But you can't say how to tell which is which, just "the psychs manage it"

>>8585872
Then what do you think the connection between being trans and being AGP is?

Protip, AGP causing trans is the only answer that adds up.

>>8585885
psychologists are trained to recognize this shit thats the whole point of tier very fucking practice. You haven't really answered or rebuttled against me related to why agps don't care about seeing doctors and only self med and call themselves femboys.

>>8585893
>protip: more like a meme that has gone to far and now people believe it.

>>8585845
and i'm saying it's from a sense of gender identity but maybe not an innate one
except evidence seems to show that agp is probably innate so in a roundabout way it might be

>>8585898
lol most agps are against selfmedding and definitely go to doctors, just go look at susans

>>8585893
*Trans causing agp
Moron

>>8585912
i will agree with you that it is not innate as I believe agp is somthing everyone feels because when you are a baby the first human that is close to you is a female. Because of this agp is not innate but psychological. Nothing wrong with it there just needs to be a distinction and understating of the difference.

>>8585917
explain why femboys say they are agp and self med then?

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>>8585931
>femboys
>femBOYS
>AGP

>>8585931
idk, they don't have social dysphoria i guess?

>>8585921
>agp is somthing everyone feels

no

>>8585893
No, AGP causing trans is bollocks.

>>8585835
First off,
>blanchardism = true
[citation needed]

Second, I'm a suicidally depressed cynical loser with no friends or social skills and a merely minute chance of living a happy life. I have an insatiable desire to take titty skittles and make life harder for myself, and it only gets worse as time goes on. Through all of this, for years, I've been avoiding taking my adhd meds so that I don't have to focus on the mess I have spiraled into. These are all true things about me that I'm ashamed of. I'm not denying any of it.
I want to get my life under control, and denying the truth isn't going to do that, but neither is buying into bullshit with no credible evidence behind it that only makes the world seem even more bleak than it already is. Masochism isn't healthy outside the bedroom desu

>>8585893
Given that transwomen of all orientations have feminized brains pre-everything? The only logical conclusion is that AGP is an effect of dysphoria and repression rather than a cause.

AGP is a real thing, but AGP is a symptom of being trans rather than the cause. "HSTS" is just a joke.

>>8587573
Non-universal, but yes. The problem is that people keep linking what is essentially a fetish developed in order to cope to the rest of Blanchard's nonsense.

This is literally one of the top porn fetishes of all time, you people need to stop this delusion.

AGP is not only real. It is HIGHLY profitable

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>>8579276

>>8587573
>but AGP is a symptom of being trans rather than the cause.
[citation needed]

hi ratanon

>>8591281
Which post is that addressed to?

>>8591301
It was addressed to >>8591301, which it hyperstitionally summoned.

>>8587751
Yeah, and it doesn't turn you trans. If it did all of those men would go full tranny.