/HRTGen/ HRT General 040: I want a baby T_T Edition

Just a reminder that you aren't Edie and in a porn video

xnxx com / video-eawwt17 / white_boi_s_are_evolving_rapidly

what happens if i only take 100mg spyro and 2mg progynova ?

>>8548012
I just started HRT two days ago on Spiro / Estrofem but I can't get the Estrofem to dissolve under my tongue? Am I doing something wrong? I left it there for a couple of minutes and it didn't seem to dissolve at all.

Bought from inhousepharmacy.

So I finally have enough sustainable income to start hrt. About to buy it. Wish me luck!

>>8548012
When can we get a new anime girl tutorial? It's been like 6 threads

>>8550221
6???? more like 600

I vote for another template too if possible

>>8549269
You'll begin to transition? I don't get what you're asking.
>>8550134
Not sure, I don't use estrofem but it should be just fine to swallow it. Also you could try chewing it, although I'm assuming the taste won't be good. Maybe someone else has a better suggestion lol
Technically there will be things like binders and fillers that won't ever dissolve though. If it's turned to mush then just swallow the rest.

So how do you calculate dosage? I'm 6 foot about 160 pounds.

>>8552205
Hormones aren't really calculated by weight typically. It's moreso affected by the hormonal levels already in your body than by your weight.
Though I guess at some crude level it is weight based as taller and bulkier people have larger blood volumes. But it's too complex to base on weight.
You should start low, get blood tested, then adjust from there.

>>8551691
There used to be tons when we were /hrtg/

>>8551930
Don't swallow it
>>8550134
Idk, you have to be doing it wrong. Are you swallowing your saliva or letting it sit?

>>8552210
Alright. And would I just call the doctors and ask them for a blood test? How often should I get my blood checked? And if they ask should I tell them I'm taking hrt?

>>8552221
I haven't seen anyone actually produce evidence that taking oral estradiol hemihydrate reduces bioavailability, it just slows absorption.

Does anyone know where I can get estradot patches on the darknet?

>>8552238
I would recommended finding a GP. You could let them know you're on hrt, but just in case do that after you've already been tested in case they spaz out and don't want to treat you anymore.
Blood tests are mostly important at the start to establish dosages. You should also get a liver, pituitary, and thyroid test. A low FSH is normal though, only cis people have normal fsh ranges usually

its really hard to import drugs and medications into my country and even normal stuff over the eqivelent of $30 need to pay at least 30% import tax.
im only 17 and many local suppliers require you to be 20 to buy this stuff. even then parents would look at my mail.

wat do? i dont want to wait anymore desu

>>8552314
but i will go to college in canada so thats probally the only i can get hrt, its still gonna be a while though

raloxifene and tamoxifen really works or Is it broscience? and What if I let my boobs grow and then use raloxifene Will it works or do I have to take raloxifene before growing boobs?

WHAT IS THIS UNGODLY PAIN IN MY HIP AREA AND KNEE AREA? IS THIS THE PRICE OF BEING "THICC"

>>8552259
What is FSH?

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Hey, so... I'm a cis guy, perfectly content with living as a male and being referred to as he/him for the rest of my days. I'm petrified of aging like a man, losing my hair, etc.

Would HRT/SERMs be worth looking into? I'm about to turn 23 and good genes can only get you so far.

>>8552805
Follicle stimulating hormone. If you're trans your testes won't function correctly and you have no ovaries so usually your FSH will always be outside cis female range

>>8553479
I generally wouldn't recommend cis guys take full HRT even if it's SERMs. There's a lot of disinfo spread around this board and transdiy about what happens with AAs and SERMs.

From research in men that take either ralox or tamoxifen it doesn't seem to vastly hinder fertility, but it does result in symptoms similar to high estrogen. It will cause an increase in both T and E but your T:E ratio will be more similar to men with high E as it upregulates E quite a bit more than it upregulates T. In the long-term this will result in sterility. Theoretically the SERM should stop gyno though. You will also see erectile dysfunction in the long term similar to men with high E.
AAs on their own will over the long term will cause gyno for sure. Bica doesn't seem to cause sterility even in the long-term picture. Spiro will inevitably cause sterility in the long term but ultimately has no actions in your testes since it's purely in your adrenal glands. Cypro for sure will as it is the only AA that directly inhibits enzymes in your testes and also has similar actions to bica and spiro in that it interacts with your adrenals and also interacts with androgen receptors just like bica does. You'll see erectile dysfunction on all AAs, but less so with spiro and bica.
AAs + SERMs will definitely cause erectile dysfunction even if you use bica, as unlike taking SERMs on their own you are inhibiting T and also suffering from a disrupted T:E ratio. Over the long-term you will see sterility regardless of if you're on bica just like any man with high E would inevitably become sterile. I posted a study in the previous thread, it's thusfar the only study on bica+ralox in males, and around 25% of men had erectile dysfunction within the first 4-6 months I believe it was.

There's also the whole issue with blood tests and that SERMs are exogenous estrogens. There's no way to test them with standard methods.
That being said if you're perfectly fine with all those effects than do it.

>>8554439
Also SERMs are not 100% proven to prevent the effects of brain degradation due to lack of hormones.
A lot of newer studies on menopausal women at risk of breast cancer use SERMs+estradiol to account for the fact that SERMs do not have equal activities across different organs.
Also bica has less binding affinity to androgen receptors than DHT does (bica has around 50-100x less binding affinity to androgen receptors than DHT), so it is actually bad for MPB as bica causes an increase in T and DHT. For prostate cancer they usually use bica+duta to prevent the rise in DHT.

So if you choose to use SERMs and you don't want MPB your entire medication list would be bica+fina/duta+estradiol+tam/ralox and you'd of course get all the lovely side effects of combining all of that stuff together.

>>8554490
>the effects of brain degradation due to lack of hormones
Does this mean post-menopausal women should get HRT?

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Cypro x Spiro?

Cipro:
>Kill your genitals after some time
>Cost effective: You can split the pills after months

>Chance of depression easily avoided by taking B12 vitamin and having a decend diet

I can't think of any cons?

-------------------------------
Spiro:
>Cheap in short term

>Makes you pee alot
>Too much potassium and you'll die

What am i missing? Why so many people take spiro instead of cypro?

>>8555666
cypro isnt approved in the US and while there's no evidence for adverse effects, I'm very sure its loaded with trouble you don't see on blood tests. I'm in Europe and have access to anything so there's no denial or jealousy at play when I say that.

There's nothing wrong with spiro.

>>Too much potassium and you'll die
That meme will never die will it

>>8554645
Yes but due to pharmaceutical fear mongering most menopausal women do not. It does however lower life expectancy
However for women at risk of breast cancer currently ralox and tam have black box warnings about early death

>>8555764
>It does however lower life expectancy
Great, so it's die early or let your brain cells suicide.

>>8555666
>Kill your genitals after sometime
Mine are working fine. I don't get random erections or morning wood but I'm still able to get hard.
>Chance of depression avoided by taking B12 Vitamin
I take multi vitamins and I'm on the max dose for an SNRI and I still get depression.

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I've been on Cypro (50mg) and Estrofem (2mg) for 2 months now.
I often find it's hard to pee, like it takes a bit of time for it to come out sometimes or it gets stuck (like my muscles wont move) but eventually it all gets out.

I know estrogen can make your bladder smaller and cypro kills the balls; But what does HRT do to your prostate, or urethra?
Since urine passes through your prostate I'm wondering if my prostate has shrunk and it's become harder for it to pass through. I'll pee it all sometimes, think I'm done and feel I'm done, then stand up and suddenly more drops just come out that I didn't even know was there.

This isn't a huge thing really, just wondering.

>>8554645
The evidence is equivocal on whether or not HRT is beneficial for post-menopausal natal females.

>>8550134
Had this problem when I first started. The reason it isn't dissolving is probably due to dryness. What I do is give it a quick and wet lick before I stick it under my tongue. Sounds funny but it works. Just make sure you're fast as you don't want it disintegrating all over the place.

I really wish I could go back to injections. So much easier.

>>8555704
>I'm very sure it's loaded with trouble you don't see on blood tests

Interested in this, what do you mean with that? Is there any studies about this?

Does HRT affect the Vocal Cords at all?

>>8555820
WTF? Urine has nothing to do with your prostate.

>>855582
Im in same regime as you, and got the same problem

>>8556031
No. Deal with it.

>>8556016
Ive read into it a long time ago but then I decided to not take cypro anymore and forget about it. I couldnt quote you anything now. And I'm in bed so I dont much feel like it only to get shot down by other trannies who feeel oh so great about that 0.001 ng/dl T.
I think in essence cypro is just one androgen to replace another and look good on paper.

>>8556016
>>8556067
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3930312
Here's a start.
> The present data show that cyproterone acetate and megestrol acetate, in addition to their well-known progestational and glucocorticoid action, have intrinsic androgenic activity.

Does anybody know if you can use a debit card in qhi? It says you need to enter your VISA or Mastercard credit card info but i dunno if they could accept debit.

Also do you need a prescription or do they simply ship without it.

>>8556085
>have intrinsic androgenic activity.
Cyprohons BTFO.

I suspected it a long time ago but it looks like taking cypro is a one way ticket to HonTown, LOL.

>>8556140
>Go to susan's place and ask about wich one is better
>All the susanhons are recommending spiro

I'll stay with cypro lmao

>>8556085
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27693265

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I'm getting on blockers to prevent further masculinization, think clearer for some months without T in my body and see how i feel. I'll get on E 2 or 3 months later.

As i'll selfmed (I can try NHS later but i don't expect them to give me the pills), what should i get? I've been on the past 2 threads (not counting months researching) but i still don't know if i should take Spirolactone or Cyproterone.

Spirolactone is so cheap it looks like a scam, cypro is actually at an ok price, but bicalutamide is like $100 for 28 pills here and i can't pay for it. Also, I can't order from inhousepharmacy or places outside my country that's why bica is impossible for me.

>>8556346
And whats that supposed to tell me?

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>>8556051
I thought that urine passed through the prostate, because the prostate has an Y pathway leading down your penis.
One comes from your bladder, the other your semen/testicles.

>>8556452
>I can try NHS later but i don't expect them to give me the pills
Reminder to vote Labour.

>>8556334
Now thats some hard science...

>>8556094
Lol no, you don't need a prescription for internet drugs

Can someone give me a rundown of the differences between Spiro and Cypro?
I've heard Cypro is stronger, but I don't know which is riskier.

>>8557424
Spiro is alright, cypro is shit. Simple as that.

>>8556494
No. Only semen comes from prostate. Even if you'l get your balls cut off - you still shall be able to cum, if the prostate is stimulated hard enough.

>>8556452
Neither "work" better. It's about the side effects.

>>8557424
Cypro is stronger than Spiro, and also has a progestin effect that helps breast growth. Cypro also damages T production and the dose can be lowered over time without T coming back.

Cypro is a bit more expensive but definitely worth it in the long run

>>8557430
T. Hon with conetits

>>8557483
Cypro ends up cheaper in the long run due to the titration, though. 50mg pills might seem expensive but you only need 1/day at most where you'd probably need 2x100 spiro. I was fine starting with 25mg cypro and I'm on 12.5mg now, so that's significantly cheaper.

>>8557483
>>8557494
Dang.

Cypro is 8$ for 100 pills here.

>>8557424
Spiro is a diuretic for grannies so don't expect much.

Cypro is the real thing, it's stronger at nuking T, and will castrate you after some time. The rest is about side effects: There are some studies pointing out that you shouldn't take cypro forever because of liver damage and should do an orchi later. Spiro can be taken forever but there's some kidney damage chance.

Also spiro can make you pee ALOT and you should avoid potassium. Cypro has no side effects besides increased depression chance due to B12 defficiency.

Again, every person reacts different, some don't get depression in cypro, some don't pee alot with spiro.

>>8557652
Tfw 100 X 100mg cypro is $7.50 aud thanks to medicare :)

>>8557720
Sounds like Cypro is the way to go then. How long does it take for the liver damage to kick in?

>>8557791
It's dose-dependent, so never. When I started at 25mg, there was a tiny increase in liver enzymes but it's been stable at that ever since, and well within range.

The liver damage is a meme from the 300mg/day FDA tests.

>>8557732
How easy was it for you to get a prescription in Australia?

>>8557732
Tfw my coverage gets everything but the $10CAD dispensing fee usually but it's even got that for the last 3 months.

Can a high dose of cypro (50mg a day) also lower my E levels? My cypro dose has been 50mg for over a year now and last I checked my T levels were 0.9 nmol/l or 26 ng/dl. Should I consider lowering my dose to 25?

>>8558007
50 mg a day is not a high dose for cypro

>>8558017
wat
Yes it is, 50mg is pretty high up there. 75mg is pretty damn strong, 100mg is just ludicrous.

>>8557487
Literally posted a link that proves youre the one with conetits on cypro but sure.

>>8558007
uh how would it lower your e levels if you dont have ovaries that produce it? (sorry for trigger but still lol)

i mean cypro has anti-gonadotropic effects so thats why some texts say it lowers your e but since you're getting your e from pills it should have 0 effect i think?

btw ive been on 25 mg cypro for like 5 months now and it takes rly long for me to orgasm and when i do nothing but a few clear drops of some liquid come out is it safe to go down to 12.5 mg now? i cant access blood tests until i move out in 1-2 months

>>8557860
I just told my gp i was self medding and he gave me an endo referral. The endo had a 3 month waiting list though :(

>>8552254
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0029784496005133

>Sublingual administration resulted in rapid absorption with significantly higher estradiol levels than did comparable oral dosing. Estrone levels did not vary with route of administration but correlated with the dosage administered. Estrone sulfate levels correlated with the dosage administratered and also tended to be higher with sublingual administration.

6 months on 1mg E. I still look the same. Should I give up?

>>8558400
just E?

>>8558416
I have been on spiro about 8-9 months.

>>8557843
Not him but that's nice to know. Also, i'm scared of cypro because of its agressive effects, so let me ask: will 25mg work? Or it depends on the person? It would be nice to start at 25mg, this way i can stop caring about costs and it won't hit me like a truck, and i'll still be the qt boy

>>8558526
DUNNO about you but im 110lbs and i started on 25mg (still am idk if i should lower cuz idk levels) and 5 months now and i cant cum for shit lol so yeah probably very low test

>>8552540
There is evidence of tamoxifen and raloxifene reducing gynecomastia in some (but not all) cases. If you don't want breasts, you should start taking one of those before you start AAs or estradiol.
>>8552777
You're fat. If you have money, see a doctor for the pain. In any case, start doing low impact exercise to build leg muscle.
>>8553479
That anime was awful.
>>8554490
>Raloxifene does not show to affect memory and cognition.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23942473
>>8556031
I was on spiro for only two days and now I sound just like Minnie Mouse.
xoxoxo Laura
>>8556452
Look at the side effects and choose the ones that would affect your life the least. Note that cypro has a longer half life than spiro, so you don't have to spread out your doses across the day.
>>8558526
>him
Rude.

>>8558597
hey I'm not that thicc anon, I'm actually a skeleton mtf anon but do you have any advice for low impact exercises? I've been going on walks every day and that's about it. I didn't want to do anything that would build a lot of visible muscle on me as I like being feminine and soft, but I have like zero stamina. Also loose skin from when I use to be like that thicc anon.

So, I still live with my parents, and I want to start self medding. How can I first, send myself the pills without them finding out second, hide the pills from them and, third, hide changes from them.

>>8558678
Oh thats easy anon, you just don't have to be a retard.
Haha wait, youre screwed.

>>8558663
Biking is good.
>>8558678
>send myself the pills without them find out
Get a PO Box.
>hide the pills from them
>hide changes from them
That depends on your living situation.

>>8558700
I could probably hide the pills easily, but when it comes to ordering I dunno how to set up a PO box

>>8558711
Go to the post office and tell them you want a PO box. They'll give you a form. Fill out the form and give it back to them. They'll give you a key and box number.

You can use the smallest box size. If your parcel is too large to fit, they'll either put it in a locker and leave a key in your box or hold it for you at the counter.

Is there a general guide to self medding? I've never really looked into it much, and I really think I need to start...

>>8558724
What about changes, I don't want them noticing that I have boobs. Should I just get on blockers?

Can anyone confirm if cycling 100mg spiro and 2mg progynova, and 100mg spiro and 50mg raxo in eight week stints is effective for feminisation? I don't want breasts so much as I want all the other things - nice skin and head hair, less body hair, feminine features. How can I keep my dick working?

>>8558738
Buy from QHI, always.
Start on 50mg of spirolactone morning and night for four weeks, then add 2mg of Progynova in the mornings. That'll set you up for your first few months. Then increase to 100mg Spiro morning and night, 4mg Progynova in the mornings.

Try and get regular blood tests.

>>8558755
Thank you for the reply. What effects should I notice on this? And what do I ask for when I get my blood tested? I'm in Australia, and I don't want to go back into the mental health system.

>>8558678
Same person as >>8558755

Order from QHI. It's discreet. Unless your parents check your mail for you, they wouldn't suspect anything from the appearance of the package. Probably just think you're ordering some autistic shit off eBay.

>>8558739
That depends on your living situation. Do you tend to dress in heavy clothes or thin clothes? Are you ever seen shirtless around the house? Do you ever go swimming?

By the way, here's what the form to get a PO box looks like:
https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf
Take note of the identification requirement.
>>8558746
Being on estradiol for 8 weeks will likely cause you to grow small breasts.
>raxo
Oh god it's retarded.

>>8558765
Do they not put what you're ordering on the package?

>>8558764
No worries. I'm Australian as well (why the fuck are we awake?).

The month of Spiro only will strip your body of testosterone. You'll notice your skin will become smoother very quickly, especially if you have greasy areas already, like your forehead, back or head. You'll find getting erections a little harder, and it's important to make sure you're getting at least one a day to stop muscle atrophy.

One you start estrogen, your body fat will begin to distribute differently around your hips. You may notice facial hair thinning, and breast buds. Each person is different, but you should expect at least this within your first three months.

Got a Centrelink card? Just ask for full bloods from your GP (or a gender clinic - every state has one). They'll tell you your hormones are whack, you'll say yep, I know, thanks! They can't do anything about it lmao. Just need to make sure your testosterone is staying down and your liver is healthy.

>>8558777
I like swimming, but I'm willing to give it up. I shower, that's about the only time I am seen shirtless, and most of my shirts are semi-tight.

>>8558784
Nope. It's just a plain brown box with 'bodycare' written in the item description.

>>8558786
What luck! It's a little early.

That sounds almost too good to be true! I'm not sure I want to socially transition at this point (it would literally kill my mother), but I need to be a little more comfortable with my body...

I actually don't, some stupid system revolving around being considered an 'independent' made it all a little difficult (even though I moved out, and I'm supporting myself). But I have medicare, obviously.

I'm just doing some more reading right now, but thank you. I just need to make sure I can weather the risks, and maintain enough masculinity to pass as male if I need to.

>>8558777
What's wrong with Raloxifene? Or is it because they misspelled?

Only ask cos I'm fairly certain Tamoxifen is the one that makes you a fucking retard if you take it.

>>8558799
>most of my shirts are semi-tight
Unless you already have moobs, it will be obvious.
>>8558805
>'bodycare'
Heh. Not inaccurate.
>>8558816
It was the misspelling. People have been calling it all sorts of stupid shit. Someone in femgen was calling it "Rolax" yesterday.

Okay hrtgen I have some questions. So I'll likely be on hrt by the end of the year (thats my goal) but I have a ton of questions I wanted to ask you all first to see if anyone else is sorta like me
So first off I have a lot of autoimmune problems and arthritis issues and I've been putting off treating that from a rheumatologist for a while. And I was wondering if any other mtfs here had issues like that where they had to take additional medicine along with their hrt and if it effected it or vice versa. And also I have a lot of gi issues so I have a real messed up diet and have to drink protein shakes that have a ton of different things in them every day and was wondering how that effects and ties into hrt as well.
I sorta have a ton of medical problems and was wondering if theres any other sickly hrt takers out there and if theres anything I should look out for or know about before hand, like if my many vitamins and menials will have any bearing on it. As well as stuff like the treatments for autoimmune issues (I know methotrexate is on the table for me)
I have some other issues as well if anyone wants to ask. I'm just worried how my frail body will handle it.

>>8558818
Fuck, that's actually pretty funny. Rolax.

Don't worry anon, all the newblood trannies will get the Ralox shortening down eventually.

>>8558805
I still don't know, I don't really order anything online. They might find it suspicious.

>>8558824
Sorry, but this is something you should really be asking a doctor about. I doubt any of us here have the expertise to properly evaluate interactions with existing conditions and medications.

So I have these golf ball sized rubbery lumps directly underneath my nipples

Is this normal or do I have the cancer

>>8558810
Realistically, if you never wear tight fit shirts, your mother shouldn't notice. Your voice won't change naturally, you've got to work hard for that. Your breast buds will remain small for a long time before they begin to fill out.

What they will notice is that you'll look softer, more radiant, and you'll smell nicer. Tell people you've started some kind of herbal tea detox, they'll probably believe you. Heh.

>>8558838
How long have you been on HRT (if at all)?

>>8558845
9 months, I have b cups if anything

>>8558824
Yeah, I have to agree with >>8558837 these are some very specific questions that you shouldn't be directing at 4chan. I hope there's someone out there who's just like you, but chances are, you just need to speak to a doctor.

>>8558839
Okay, my worries are starting to seem a little silly. I've wanted this for so long, and at 19 I don't want to leave it much longer.

I think I'll order the meds you recommended, and take them to start. I'll do some reading on side effects, and such, but I'm very healthy physically, and after Escitalopram side effects, they should be manageable.

>>8558851
Speak to a medical professional immediately. That is not good at all.

>>8558837
>>8558852
I just thought I'd throw it out there and sorta see if anybody could relate, but yeah you're right. I just normally get the shit end of the stick with doctors so far.

>>8558860
Fuck if I have cancer I'll kms

>>8558860
??

>>8558855
Good luck with it, fellow Austranny. You've picked a good age to decide to take action. Any later and you'd only be making it harder for yourself.

If you start experiencing something you consider to be a side effect of the HRT, you can always pop back in here and ask. Someone will tell you if it's normal or not. ((for instance, heads up, liquid will come out of your nipples at some point. it's fine.))

>>8558869
It's okay anon, you can just get a mastectomy :^)

>>8558871
I intend to make a habit of coming back here, thank you for being so helpful.

>>8558869
It could just be cysts, or benign tumours. It can happen. Cis women get breast cysts quite regularly.

But for it to be both? Quite large? Firm? Yeah. That's worrying. Please get someone to check it.

>>8558875
Or I can keep my nipples and just kms

>>8558884
Upon closer groping it seems I misjudged it. Only one lump. But still, scared af

>>8558902
You mean only on one breast?

>>8558906
Yes

>>8558902
Okay, that's a little better. Less panic. Sounds like your breasts are filling out! You're getting actual breast tissue!

Still get it checked, because you don't want to fuck around with this stuff. But breast tissue is lumpy as fuck. It's not smooth and soft on the inside.

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>>8558909
ey b0ss you have cancer

>>8558910
I'm still panicking

>>8558919
If it makes you feel any better, 40% of people are diagnosed with cancer at some point in their lifetime and about 25% of deaths in the US are due to cancer.

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Twink looking to stay twink here.

1) Does bica need to be taken with an AA?
2) My insurance would cover bloodwork; how often would I need to check my levels?

Thx folks, sorry for the basic questions. :x

>>8559063
>1) Does bica need to be taken with an AA?
Bica is an AA.

>>8558971
That's because 40% of people are genetically inferior weaklings who can't handle a little bit of radiation

/sarcasm

Now that I've calmed down I'm like 90% sure it's just breast tissue. still gonna get it checked just in case and then gas myself if it's cancer

>>8559106
Copy that.

So it's pretty maintenance free, then, on a standard dosage. Maybe some initial tests a few months in to see that it's working?

>>8559122
You won't be able to judge the effectiveness of bicalutamide using standard blood tests. Bicalutamide actually increases testosterone levels, but blocks it from binding to the androgen receptor.

By the way, bicalutamide will likely give you puffy nipples after a few months. And by puffy nipples, I mean small hard lumps under your nipples.

>>8559140
Not him but what's the difference between having high T that doesn't bing to androgen receptor, and having low t? I'm retarded.

>>8559202
If you use an antiandrogen that lowers testosterone levels (like spironolactone or cyproterone acetate), you can judge its effectiveness by getting a blood test and confirming that your levels are in the female range.

If you use an antiandrogen that blocks the androgen receptor but doesn't decrease your testosterone levels (such as bicalutamide), you won't easily be able to determine if you're taking the correct dose by taking a blood test. Additionally, some of the extra testosterone will get converted to dihydrotestosterone and estradiol. Dihydrotestosterone has a higher affinity for the androgen receptor than testosterone and is largely responsible for male pattern baldness. It's the reason bicalutamide is often paired with a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor like finasteride. The increased estradiol will lead to breast growth.

I'm not saying that bica is worse than spiro or cypro. Spiro has some shitty side effects and cypro is hard on the liver. You just have to consider the effects of each and pick the one (or none) that best fits your lifestyle.

Which hrt should I try asking my doc for if I have pretty bad anxiety and depression already? I sorta always get side effects from stuff and heard that some make your depression or anxiety worse.

>>8560689
Sodium fluoroacetate. It's like cyproterone acetate but much more effective.

>>8560689
It depends what country you are in. Try and get cyproterone and estradiol hemihydrate in pill form

Just ordered hormones for the first time. Wat do?

>>8558526
Honestly I think starting at 50 is pushing it, I was 125 pounds (thanks to spiro) when I started at 25, my T was something like 0.8nmol/L within a month (from 6.2nmol/L after 4 months of spiro, which is like, female bodybuilder range).

Now it's 0.7nmol/L, I'm up to 145lbs, and I've been on 12.5mg for 2 months.

50mg is ridiculous

>>8560715
This is a toxic pesticide, DO NOT.

>>8561480
Spiro made you lose weight? Sorry i'm still researching side effects. Does cypro have any impact on weight loss?

I know it's harder to lose weight with E (or is this a meme? I'm pre-hrt and i have difficulty to lose or gain weight, i'm stuck at 160lbs for the past two years and i'd rather not gain anything...)

>>8561509
hrt can slightly affect your basal metabolic rate but it's not anything drastic. Women have a lower BMR but I don't believe hrt alone lets you match cis females BMR. It probably at most lowers your bmr by like 50-100cal/day

>>8561509
My weight's been pretty steady between 140-45 on cypro.

Spiro I think was because I wasn't drinking enough, and worrying about potassium.

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>>8561534
>Spiro I think was because I wasn't drinking enough, and worrying about potassium.

>>8561450
>Just ordered hormones for the first time. Wat do?

>>8561339
I'm in the us

Shoulder muscle go when

>>8563143
This. As it stands, I have a chad's body with tits and slightly bigger hips.

Hi.

I've been on HRT for 4 months now. On month 2.5 I upped my dose from 2 x 2mg(4mg a day) to 2 x 2 mg + 2mg(6mg a day)

I won't be getting a blood test most likely for another few days or so.

My problem is that I went from sweating badly when really active to sweating badly when just casually walking. I am at a normal weight and take 25mg of cypro a day. Is this because of this hormone shit or did I just randomly become more sensitive to sweating?

>>8563206
Sounds like you're getting hot flashes. Why did you increase your dosage without getting tested?

Is there anything natural I can do in the meantime before I get hrt to help or lower my t levels? Like some kind of vitamin or supplement or food/drink?
Or are all those how to be mtf/trap infographs I've seen posted that list foods and drinks to eat just memes?

>>8563249
Because no-one tested it beforehand. I am leaving blind DIY on Thursday hopefully.

>>8563206
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/4678440/#4678440

I'm also on 25mg cypro
Think my blood pressure is low and get possible heart palpitations when active

>>8563464
Weird. I was able to check my blood pressure with my GP. My liver is fine and my blood pressure is 110/70.

>>8563250
Those guides are utter garbage.
You can kind of lower T, but it's difficult. You'll need to try and cut as much monounsaturated and saturated fats out of your diet as possible. Increase your intake of polyunsaturated fats as much as possible. Fish oil is pretty cheap and can give you an extra 4-6g/day of omega-3's pretty easily for not a lot of money. If you have to eat MUFAs and SFAs you want your ratio of PUFA:MUFA/SFA to be as close to 1:1 as possible. Ideally you want to take in more PUFAs than MUFAs/SFAs though. Vegans tend to have lower testosterone levels due to their diets for example.

Supplements can kind of help if you're okay with buying the bulk powders and putting it into capsules. Before I was on HRT I bought my supplement powders from NutriCargo and Bad Monkey Botanicals. I used a cheap capsule packing machine off amazon for $30.
I used lignans, xanthohumol, astaxanthin, and isoflavone extracts in pretty hefty quantities hence why I was buying bulk powders and not buying stuff from the drug store. It would be beyond ridiculously expensive to get all that stuff from the store.

I can explain a little better if you like, but usually most people give up on the diet alone. To actually reduce T isn't quite as fun as fun as all the trap infographic memes make it seem lol

>>8548012
So, I'm still living with my parents. I have a personal PO box and all that, but I don't want my parents to notice any changes if I get on hormones. What do? Should I use a binder once the boobies come in or would that fuck everything up?

>>8564462
Well at the start all you really need are sports bras or bralettes cause most of the issue is just nipples showing.
Dudes have pecs so a little bit of a bulge isn't going to set anyone off.
Also wear undershirts to smooth everything out.

>>8564469
But what if I hypothetically get massive tits? I know it might not happen but what I'd it did, would I be fucked?

>>8548012
can bica worsen depression? I've been insanely depressed and anxious for the last week or so for no real reason and it's only since I upped my dose to 50mg every other day

>>8564495
Well kind of... I mean there's not a lot you can do to hide giant tits lol
You can bind I guess, but that can wreck your boob growth

>>8564533
I just wanna be safe for now, should I only take AA's?

>>8564578
How long do you have to hide it for?

Do those online pharmacies in OP's image ship to South America? (More specifically Chile)

>>8564580
Until I get enough money to move out, that may be a while since I'm only working minimum wage.

>>8564462
boobs will take EONS to come in. like seriously, even to get conetits, it's a few years. don't worry about it. and they won't become full sized until cut yr balls off.

>>8564498
I think every AA can. Especially combined with finasteride as you should with bica.
Best is to just cut balls off desu.

>>8564612
I'm still paranoid about it, I just don't want to be that one tranny who gets massive DD tits within a week and can't hide them

>>8564668
If it happens just say you were taking a supplement or whatever and it caused gyno

>>8564679
How would a supplement do that?

>>8564718
It doesn't matter how, it's just made up bullshit but normies aren't going to question it lol

>>8564725
I mean I have very small moobs anyway it might not be a surprise if I go to a small a cup.

>>8564587
Help please ;_;

>>8564787
It should say on their site if they ship there. I think QHI does.

>>8564587
Check if you can't order it online in chile, here in brazil you can buy from some local drugstores online without prescription

>>8564215
Yeah you can explain it a bit better if you'd like. I wouldn't mind hearing and considering it. There's a vitamin shop near me actually that sells all sorts of crap
I also have a really weird diet anyway due to not being able to eat gluten or red meat

>>8564795
>>8564833
Thanks anons

>>8564833
>>8564587
i thought that in south america you could just walk up to pharmacies and ask for shit as long as its not a narcotic

>>8564934
It's not exactly the greatest thing ever if you want drastic effects. It did kickstart some breast growth and my semen turned clear though. I could still get erections for the most part, though it did get rid of my morning erections. I mainly was worried about MPB though and I think the supplements did help me regrow a ton of the hair on my temples.
I've heard of people using pueraria mirifica but miroestrol in PM isn't heavily researched, and it does seem to have quite a bit of side effects. Miroestrol also needs to be processed by the liver to be active I believe. I decided not to use PM myself due to the lack of research.
Most phytoestrogens are pretty safe for your liver and everything. They aren't really metabolized by your liver. Actually in dosages above 200mg/day isoflavones are used to reverse fatty liver disease

I don't know if vitamin shops would really have what you need. I was using pretty high dosages of everything hence why I bought bulk powders and made my own pills. Plus drug stores don't seem to carry extracted chemicals. You could theoretically just eat tons and tons of the plants themselves, but I don't think it's worth it.
I was using stuff like flax lignans, red clover isoflavones, soy isoflavones, prenylflavonoids from hops, astaxanthin, and resveratrol.

I was pretty much megadosing on everything. Like my dosages for isoflavones were similar to what they used in trial studies for prostate cancer. I tried to get around 600-1000mg/day of isoflavones.
I didn't really get any side effects. Had hot flashes for a couple weeks at the start and cried a lot more similar to what HRT does. Other than that I only had positive effects.

>>8548012
does cycling the drugs(cycling AAs and SERMs?) prevent infertility? if yes, how would you do it exactly?

>>8565046
Well there's maybe a chance that cycling might work, but if your intention is feminization it might do the opposite of what you want as SERMs without AAs causes an increase in E, T, and DHT.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4708300/
>While SERMs, such as clomiphene citrate (CC), tamoxifen, and toremifene, have been widely used in women for the treatment of breast cancer and osteoporosis, their use in the treatment of male hypogonadism and infertility is currently off-label. CC, like other SERMs, inhibits central estrogen feedback (39) and up regulates the production of LH and FSH, leading to induction of spermatogenesis

Generally speaking when going on any AA you should at least be prepared for some level of infertility. It might be reversible but it can sometimes take a year or two for things like sperm motility to recover.

Why are serms so expensive?

>>8565405
AAs are more

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>>8565413
Not really, at least where i live...

Cypro will cost me $15 for 28 pills
Raloxifen would cost me $61 for 30 pills...

>>8565405
Well SERMs aren't exactly a commonly used medicine. They're basically just experimental breast cancer medication.

I'm taking 50 mg spiro plus E in the morning and then just 25 mg spiro in the night. Would it be more effective if I take 25mg spiro in the morning then 25mg in the midday and then at the night ?

>>8565445
Doesn't really matter. The active metabolites of spironolactone have a half-life of 13-16 hours, so your levels will stay relatively consistent as long as you take it at least every 13 hours.

>>8552254
dude what? if you swallow a sublingual you are literally getting as little as 5% of the bioavailavbility

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>>8558597
>you're fat
lol what? i'm actually skinny as fuck. Am i getting fat though? is that what you're saying??

I was wondering if i'm GETTING thicc...i'm not thicc yet. I was really wondering if i lucked out and am growing hips. they hurt and tingle alot. It's died down since then but i feel it.

>>8565413
this isn't remotely true. I mean maybe for bica?

>>8565413
check QHI. Spiro is cheap af, but cypro is expensive everywhere, at least to self med

I was on 50 mg cypro for nearly a month. It made me incredibly sad and depressed, but did the job in nuking my balls.
I switched to 25 mg and I feel equally as bad if not worse and I got an erection in the morning today.
What do?

I'm going to see my tomorrow about HRT. If he doesn't give me prescription, should I mention that I already have medication and can buy more if I need to, or should I just try someone else.

>>8550221
Ranma is perfect in every way. There is no reason to change it

>>8566850
say you are self medding

>>8565763
masturbate :) nah.. just give 25mg some time to clear depression, it worked with me

>>8566977
I'll try to get a prescription without mentioning it first. Is there anything I should know to answer with certain questions or avoid falling into any traps that he might say to not give me one?

>tfw starving myself to avoid big boobs

Will HRT making muscles smaller fix my arm muscle imbalance (right arm bigger from jacking off)?

Will HRT help me gain weight (fat)? I am severely underweight right now.

Will doing squats and lower body exercises now help my ass look better after HRT or will the muscle just be burned away while on it?

>>8567305
>Will HRT making muscles smaller fix my arm muscle imbalance (right arm bigger from jacking off)?
They'll atrophy, but thats it.
>Will HRT help me gain weight (fat)? I am severely underweight right now.
Yes
>Will doing squats and lower body exercises now help my ass look better after HRT or will the muscle just be burned away while on it?
No idea.

>>8567305

I think you still need to take care of your diet to get smaller muscles and gaining fat because hormones won't do it all by itself. I've seen comments of people with high doses of E and AA keeping their muscles after months on HRT so I don't find another explaination.

>>8559140
> By the way, bicalutamide will likely give you puffy nipples after a few months.
> after a few months
I've been only on bica so far and I've noticed my nipples changing after the first 4 weeks. After another 4 weeks the changes were clearly noticeable by others.

>>8567563
Estrogen helps maintain muscle in females just like testosterone does in males so I'd imagine it would do the same for mtf's.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2873087/

You'd get faster deterioration with AAs by themselves.

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What happens if i take a low dose of E (like 1mg)? I'm a femboy and i don't really want breasts but i can't afford serms. I'm on 25mg cypro btw, i should start E.

With low E i'll get the same effects as having no sexual hormones in my body?

>>8568934
Well as long as you're on AAs you'll still see some effects from the E.
I know in menopausal women they use pretty low dosages just to maintain bone health and stop brain fog.

Another option you could look into is phytoestrogens. They're used by menopausal women fairly often as well. Try soy isoflavone supplements, pueraria mirifica, or red clover.

>>8568283

That makes sense now you making me wanting to suspend my Estrogen for a month or two

>>8558087

LMAO

>That feel when took 150mg for 5 days and have been taking 100mg every day for the last month.

Will go down to 50mg eventually if I dont die first lel

>>8569195
Well I believe they use 200mg for prostate cancer but that's cause those people are on the verge of death

Hey im thinking about starting hrt, im 16. Only problem is i dont want to quit any sports. Do i wait or just go easy with bicalutamide?

>>8558439
Cypro or bust

>>8569199
... That sounds like a challenge.

All I have access to at the moment is 50mg daily dose of Spiro, is this good enough to halt masculation? I'm 18 and have no body hair, little facial hair.

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>>8568948
Well if it stops masculinization and prevents me from having depression and bone problems related to low/no sex hormones, i think it would work for me (How does low E dose works? Like let's say i'll take 1mg/day, i'll take longer to get the full effects but still get them?)

If i end up accepting what i am i can increase the dosage, right?

>>8569795
Well I've heard varying things about what happens to your breast growth but I think most of it is kind of bs. Some people spout off stuff about breast bud fusion and whatever else but I haven't seen proof any of it is real.
Cis women that go on HRT after menopause often experience some breast growth so I highly doubt low-dosing estrogen will harm anything if cis women that finished breast growth 40 years ago can get additional breast growth on hrt.

I believe for menopause they often use 0.5mg of estradiol valerate or equivalent dosages to that from other forms of estradiol.
For phytoestrogens you can lookup what dosages they use in menopausal women on examine.com but they're not always effective unless you use really high dosages. Probably a low dose of estradiol is a safer option.

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Hi, young male who is suffering with hair loss here, I've posted in this general before and have had a nice response so I'll post again for advice.
After finding out the hard way that Bicalutamide worsens hair, I want to try a different AA. So far I'm thinking Spiro (50 or 100mg) cause its meant to be weaker and its cheap.
Does this worsen hair loss? I'll be taking it with oral minoxidil and I really don't want to waste my money again.
ty.

>>8569912
It should work for hair loss.
For minoxidil, have you tried high concentration solutions before you jump to oral use. Cause there are solutions with like 15% minoxidil that are supposed to be way more powerful than usual solutions.
You should also try minoxidil with microneedles.

Are you not also going to take fina or duta?

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last meeting with Endo, start HRT next week exactly. FUUccck I can't wait!!!

One querstion. I asked about errections, she said it would be impossible with blockers and E. I said well how to those trannies in pornos get hard? she said they stop taking blockers a week prior.

Is this true?

>>8569923
Some people can retain erections for quite a while. If you masturbate often you'll keep your erections.

Also pornstars use lots of viagra and occasionally they use penile injection therapy where they inject a solution of either saline or there's certain drugs that can encourage erections.

>>8569929

ahh thought it was viagra. it but I just wanted to see what would happen.

>>8569923
It depends on person to person. I kept erections all throughout and even after getting an orchi and not having testicles I still get hard just fine even if a lot less frequently. I've never actually met a girl who just couldn't get hard but I know plenty of people claim that it happens to others

>>8569934

oh you got SRS?

>>8569949
Just an orchi, so removal of my testicles. Full srs is in 2019. The orchi wasn't really worth it to me since its just stressful to worry about vaginal depth and it didn't really make me feel any better since I still have a dick that gets hard. Waste of 5 grand desu. But I know some girls are really happy with just getting an orchi done, I just still feel like I want full srs so there was no point in it

>>8569961
Isn't it usually cheaper than that? I've heard most people say it's only around $1000-$2000USD

>>8569974
the actual surgery only cost like 2k, but the hospital and my doctors made me go through a ton of extra appointments that brought up the total to 5k before I was done. More experienced or trans friendly doctors probably wouldn't make you go through so much but this surgeon had never done it before.

>>8569828
I think i'll go for low dose E then. This may be retarded but phytoestrogens and related things sound a bit like "experimental" to me, i'd rather not risk.

Thank you!

>>8569912
I'd really recommend Finasteride/Durasteride, i've had the same problem and Finasteride has been working great for me and holding it until i end research and get on HRT.

>>8569919
I am on Finasteride 1mg

>>8570040
see above, I didn't specify it in my post, but I'm on finasteride 1mg and minoxidil liquid for about 6 months now

>>8569961

I'm so happy for you :)

Non-lgbt guy here. I was not interested in hormones before, but i want to try now. Mostly to look more feminine and to prevent testosterone related balding. How do i buy them if im not trans? Also how much should i reduce dosage if i don't plan to transition

>>8570050
How bad is your hair loss?
You should really try microneedling in the minoxidil
It worked quite well in this study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

>>8570211
The most common sites to buy from are in the OP image. You just need to see which ships to you.
How much do you care about sterility, ED, etc?
If all you want is to stop mpb use fina. It's not a large risk for any ED (though there is a small chance, but it doesn't happen often). Some people also say it lowers libido but it's listed as a minor side effect.

>>8570237
I don't care about sterility or libido, don't have sex anyway. What is ED?

I smoke weed sometimes, is it "safe" to smoke while on hrt? Does weed increases the risk of thrombosis or something like that? I can't find any studies about this

>>8570216
It is bad (thinning all over). And thanks, I'll look into that.
I really hope Spiro/oral minox does something for me too...
if not ill kms

>>8570245
Erectile dysfunction

Are you okay with boobs? Cause cypro+estrogen is pretty much the best you can get, you'll of course get boobs though

>>8570276
If it's thinning everywhere that isn't male pattern baldness. You might have other health issues
Have you had your thyroid checked? You should do a complete blood panel
MPB tends to follow a specific pattern, check the norwood scale for pictures

>>8570277
Is there any combo of drugs that will keep them relatively small? Like AA or A at most.

>>8570277
Im ok if they will be small. Is 23 too late to become a femboy?

>>8570284
You can use SERMs like raloxifene or tamoxifen with any antiandrogen.
In studies on menopausal women they often add estradiol in a low dose as well since SERMs have different binding affinities throughout your body.
I've heard of some people cycling between estradiol and SERMs as well but I'm not sure how effective that is.
SERMs are also kind of experimental in some sense since they're mostly a breast cancer drug and aren't commonly used by mtf's

>>8570291
Well you can't exactly pick a size.
As for your age I don't know, really depends on genetics. If you're built like a linebacker I'm gonna say no though, just being realistic lol

>>8570281
Its not following a pattern, just thinning absolutely everywhere and none of my other hairs are changing and I haven't noticed any other bad symptoms.. I'll go get it checked out. Thanks.

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>>8571017
Male pattern baldness has a really obvious pattern to it (hence the name lol)
It should follow pic related pretty closely.
Like MPB will basically never affect the sides or back or your head even when you're old

Thinning all over can be due to a lot of things. Actually if you're taking AAs right now it can even be due to low T. Getting your T and E into female range will fix that. Or getting your ranges back to male range. Another cause is low E in men.
Thyroid issues can cause hair thinning.
Pituitary issues like hyperprolactinemia can also cause thinning.
If you're using lots of AAs make sure you aren't completely removing hormones, they're necessary for hair growth

>>8571709
My hair is thin everywhere, mainly on the top of my scalp though, but not by a lot. It is definitely thin everywhere. I got a blood test last year and apparently they came back "normal" according to my GP.
I'm going to go again and question her a lot more about this stuff.
>Another cause is low E in men.
I may purchase estrogen from QHI if this next "cure" I've ordered doesn't work..

My endo put me on premarin for the first month and is waiting a month for any AA, is that normal? I thought they put you on an AA first then estrogen

>>8558663
You should always work out your lower body. Skinny = feminine is a meme. If you're too skeleton mode then you'll just look like a skinny faggot. Also working out your lower body will balance out your inevitably wider shoulders. Look up some butt exercises on youtube.

>>8572826
Skinny fit is master race.

>>8572849
Sure, if you want to look like a dude.

Well my mom found my pills and she's alright with me being trans, guess I'm going legit now. The thing is I've been taking cypro and wanna keep taking cypro, I live in the US. Is there any way for the doctor to let me keep taking it?

>>8573016

how did she find the pills I also have them hidden but everytime I go out I have nightmares someone will find them

>>8572732
Well considering you're taking AAs you should ensure you're at least within female range T
I'm honestly not sure if having low E whilst still being in the female range T would cause thinning.

Does your balding match anything from that pics?

>>8573016
I don't live in the US but I've posted these articles before for those wanting cypro in the US. As far as I'm aware this is the process you'll need to follow:
https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/transparency/basics/ucm194904.htm
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/opinion/scare-tactics-over-foreign-drugs.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/08/05/a-case-for-compassionate-use-when-unapproved-drugs-are-the-only-hope.html
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/clinical-trials/compassionate-drug-use.html

You'll need to speak to your doctor about the process. As far as I'm aware it's mostly on you to actually order the drugs but if your doctor prescribes it you can make a case for having insurance cover it. That's all I know about stuff in the states.

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Is it possible to stop puberty with only AAs if you can't get access to Lupron?

>>8569206
If you're already 16 you should get on full hrt asap under informed consent w/ parent signoff. You can continue doing sports but obviously any teams that are gendered you may jeopardize your membership, but really it's a trivial concern compared to getting hrt soon.

>>8573272
I don't think it would be as effective as you'd still have your regular growth hormones.
I haven't seen a ton of articles on this but human growth hormone is tied relatively closely to FSH and LH which is what Lupron inhibits.

Even then to actually prevent your skeletal development from finishing at male levels you'd inevitably need estradiol since estrogen causes early bone fusion, which is partly the reason why female skeletal structure is smaller than males.

wtf do i buy

>>8573620
Penny stocks

>>8548012
if youre under 18 do you need to inform you parent before starting hrt?

>>8573345
Not the same person but, this means cypro will not completely stop puberty? I'm "18", planning to start cypro tomorrow so i prevent the end of the puberty while i try to find where to order E. This means i'm fucked?

>>8573741
Well cypro is certainly better than spiro or bica.
Cypro will lower your LH and FSH just like Lupron but as far as I'm aware GnRH agonists do that plus they have other mechanisms relating to growth hormones. Cypro lowers LH and FSH via your testicles and GnRH lowers LH and FSH via your pituitary gland. But they're pretty similar so you'd expect roughly similar results since they're kind of in direct feedback mechanisms with eachother.
BUT cypro does seem to affect growth hormones, at least in combination with estrogen:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2939014
There's not a ton of research on it though. As far as using AAs during puberty though, if you have to use them, cypro is the way to go, it seems to be the only one that can even potentially resemble GnRH agonists like Lupron.

I would definitely recommend getting on E as soon as you can though. Eunuchs still grow quite tall and lanky, often even taller than normal men and women, and on AAs alone you'd basically be a eunuch. So whatever effects it has on human growth hormone is kind of irrelevant in that case.

>>8573794
Actually on that note now that I think about it, using anything other than cypro or GnRH agonists before the age of 22-25ish is probably pretty unwise.
After that I would still say don't do it, but it's less important.
Spiro and Bica don't have the same feedback mechanisms necessary to alter HGH and given the amount of development that occurs up until around 24-25ish it's best just to use the medicine that you know works best.

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I left my skittles in the car today and it got pretty hot (like 90-100F), I googled around and the recommended temp was like below 77. Should I be concerned? If so wat do?

>>8573970
It should probably be alright unless it was maybe very humid or was exposed to sunlight.

>>8573979
Yeah then I should be fine I guess, it was in my bag.
I was just a little concerned cause there seemed to be a kind of weird smell in the bottles that I don't really remember being there before.

>>8573993
Well I'm not american but 100F isn't that bad. That's around body temperature. It's like holding a pill bottle in your pocket essentially.
Even in moist environments it's usually no big deal cause the bottle itself is mostly sealed.

Sunlight on the other hand will wreck it. But that's why we have tinted pill bottles. If your pill bottle is clear you should toss it if it's left in sunlight though.

>>8573131
Its thinning in general, but there is more thinning on the front of my head.
Will taking spiro (100mg) kill gains? I'm cis male btw so I don't really want my hormones to be in female ranges....

>>8574064
Are you even on the norwood scale though? As I said this is pretty important because they call it male PATTERN baldness for a reason

>>8574072
Also how is the symmetry? MPB is VERY symmetrical. Usually to within 15-30 follicles on each side except maybe around the vertex (the crown) of your head where symmetry is a little iffy.
Hair loss on your temples should be symmetric to around 5-20 follicles probably on average.

>>8573970
Estrace can be stored at 60-85F, but ranges like those usually include a large margin for error. It's probably fine.

>>8573673
im talking leagally

how would i be able to have only smol boiboobs and not be permanently fucking neutered? i only have acess to spiro, cypro and E, but cant get serms or bicca

i only want to be fem not completely trans

>>8574089
I would show you but I don't wan to shit up the thread... contact details? idk.
My hair is just thinning everywhere but mainly on top. I hate my life.

>>8572806
>My endo put me on premarin for the first month and is waiting a month for any AA, is that normal? I thought they put you on an AA first then estrogen
No, nor is using premarin instead of a better oestrogen. There's no reason for them to do that. Can you change endos?

>>8574464
I've used [email protected] as an alt account for hrtgen
Blur out whatever you like but I won't post your pics, it's a google email though, blur your face just in case lol
Or just crop your face out

How much estrofem tablets should I take and how often? I've been taking 1 tablet every 12 hours so usually midnight- then lunch the midnight again .also I'm on spiro I was put down to 100mg a day instead of 200 for some reason.
I'm self medding the estrofem -but the spiro is prescribed so I'm not messing with that.

>>8574606
Also are those values kinda low? 4mgs of estrofem but I'm reading some people taking as high as 6 and 8 of estradiol

>>8574613
I take 6, 8 is where people start going crazy.

>>8574778
So like, two in the morning and one in the night or the other way around. I'm only getting older I probably need that extra dosages. what are you on?

So I was reading around about some people taking their estradiol pills sublingually instead of swallowing them and saying it had better effects but I want actual input before I make a change to the routine.

>>8574502
No it would take longer to transfer to a different endo then ask to change meds, she said she didn't have experience with trans people so I was just wondering. She's putting me on spiro after this month so i'm fine with waiting.

>>8575139
This is completely different for hemihydrate vs valerate, like one of them it matters whether it's taken sublingually and the other it doesn't…or something like that

however this is noACTUAL INFORMATION on WHAT THE FUCKING DEATILS OF THAT DIFFERENCE ARE

so I also will be lur

Forgiv for crosspoist however the other thread has no responses

I'm burgerland resident, Alabama (northern quarter, far from Birmingham, no informed consent clinics nearby at all)

Turning 19 and going to UAH this fall, paperwork is all squared away for that

Have a part-time job at an office

I just started DIY HRT last month

What do I need to do to get this shit officialized and on insurance? I'll be living with a friend, out of my parents' house, either this semester or next, and once they're no longer physically breathing down my neck I don't give a fuck what they find out about (especially since Thanks Obama forces them to pay my health insurance till I'm a fully mature manchild anyway); I want to save my hard-earned shekels since HRT is f0cking expensive

I know that being on DIY for an amount of time can really help fast-track oneself to a script, but
What type of place do I need to look for?
How much will it cost?
How long should I expect to wait for a letter?
How many times will I need to go in?
How much paperwork will I have to do? (I know jack shit about my insurance other than the company logo on the card)
I want something that's not going to leave a black mark on my "psychological history" because muh security clearance and I don't want to lose my God Given Right to Bear Unnecessarily Large Weapons, so admitting to suicidal urges is a big no-no

My goal is to get a script officialized with as little monetary cost and as few physical interactions as possible (e.g., 2 visits over 3 months would be better than a month of weekly visits, assuming both lead to a script)

This seems even more insurmountable than getting the DIY stuff, which was at least a straightforward and well-documented process by comparison

So I'm starting finasteride. I'm not doing hrt but seeing as it's a DHT blocker I figured someone here might be able to tell me what to expect

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>>8574443
I double this, I don't care about erectile dysfunction or infertility, i just don't want giant boobs. I only have access to Cypro, Spiro and E. Is there a way?

>>8574443
spiro+e will do ya

cypro castrates

bica is nice because it's less stressful on your body and doesn't have the diuretic but otherwise spiro should do.

You probably won't get breasts bigger than you want, honestly. They just don't grow that big on hormones. You can modulate your E dose anywhere from 2mg to 6mg to try to keep it where you want it.

>>8575250
Estradiol valerate or cypionate or any other ester prodrug should be swallowed. They're prodrugs that are metabolized into estradiol as they're absorbed in the stomach so there's no worries about lower bioavailability.
The hemihydrate has garbage bioavailability if you swallow it so you have to take it sublingually

>>8575423
thanks pham

tagging the other guy who asked about this topic: >>8575139

>>8575423
>>8575429
Thanks to both.
I've been taking lupin estradiol as pills for a few months and saw some stuff claiming dissolving sublingual might be better so it roused my curiosity

>>8575516
Well lupin is a brand not the chemical itself. Lupin pharna makes both ester versions and a hemihydrate.
Which one do you have?

>>8575525
My estradiol's DIN leads me to here: http://canadian-pill-identifier.com/drug/lupin-estradiol/93488

Which claims it's a hemihydrate. Even looks the same and is the same size as the page describes.

So I've been doing it wrong the whole time, but my levels are still good.

>>8548012
Hi. Never ever posted here.
UK, can all this treatment be covered by the NHS? (Not that I'm benefit thief)

ADC's transdermal E option is
>Climara Forte 7.6 mg
It's $5.81 per patch

Does each of these patches last a week…2 per week…or is that how much it'd be per DAY?

Even taking 6mg Progynova (oral estradiol valerate) per day only works out to 94¢

>>8575541
The hemihydrate still absorbs fine via oral. The low bioavailability is exaggerated I think.
Officially it is supposed to be swallowed according to the instructions usually.

>>8575736
Even if it's not exaggerated and it's only a small bonus, I may as well take it than not.

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I have questions about AA's because this thread made me confused.

Long term, is spiro cheaper than cypro?
Also, how strong is the diuretic effect of Spiro and how dangerous is consuming potassium while taking it?

I have a really busy routine of work and can't keep going to the bathroom every 30mins tbqh. Also, due to where i live, i have a high potassium intake, it will be difficult to change this.

Btw if it helps i'm assexual aiming to keep my feminine features (and enhance them) while fighting against age. I'm 5'7, 152lbs and 18y. I don't want kids but i'm scared of cypro depression. Bica isn't an option nor serms but i'll embrace dem boyboobs, it's the only way.

>>8575919
If you're not going on any hormones all of the AAs will cause depression. It's just the result of having no hormones in your body similar to eunuchs.
Cypro does not cause depression any more than the other AAs.

>>8575923
I'll take E too for the feminization and to prevent osteoporosis (i've been lurking and it seems that eunuch = bad idea)

Don't some studies accuse a higher incidence of depression related with cypro? (even if combined with E and B12 supplements)

>>8575947
I don't think so. There are lots of studies stating the opposite
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11158017

Most likely it's just people that have improper levels, or just have normal depression

>>8575970
That's nice to know, cypro will work better for me in this case. Thanks!

Some retarded questions just to make sure I won't fuck up: i'm supposed to take cypro after dinner and split my E dosage (2mg) by 1mg after lunch and 1mg before sleeping?

>>8576114
Yeah split your estrogen dose. You shouldn't need to split your cypro cause its half-life is pretty long

So I'm about to purchase my estrogen. Estrofem is out of stock but Progynova is in stock. It's the 2mg 3x28s. Does that mean anything different?

>>8576568
It seems from preliminary Googling that estrofem is hemihydrate while progynova (which I have) is valerate

Hemihydrate is just a simple salt, easy to absorb, your metabolism destroys a lot if you don't take it sublingually

Whereas the Valerate is formulated for "slow release" on a molecular level by actually being metabolized extra (due to being a fat-compound instead of just a salt), and almost none of it gets wasted/destroyed by normal ingestion

That's the layman's terms, and, honestly, the extent to which I understand it

>>8575947
femboys do a SERM like tamoxifen/raloxifene + Bicalutamide

>>8576816
Hm, so no estrogen? That sounds weird to me. You'd end up blocking testosterone and estrogen with that combo, right? Is that okay to do? I'm really really new to this, so I honestly don't know.

>>8577031
Raloxifene is an estrogen to your bones and an estrogen blocker to your breasts

And I believe it IS estrogenic regarding bodyfat redistribution

>>8576125
Thanks

>>8576816
I can't afford raloxife+bica :/, 1 month of bica + raloxifene (not including E) = 7 months of Cypro + E

>>8577050
Some people have been saying they haven't seen much fat redistribution with ralox

>>8576647
Not the same person but what about micronized 17-b estradiol? is the same as valerate?

>>8577054
The flowchart goes:
Q. Do you want to be castrated?
Yes: then take Cyproterone Acetate
No: Q. Are you poor?
Yes: then take Spironolactone
No: then take Bicalutamide

If you can't afford B, S is the answer—NOT C!
If can afford B but you want castration, you should be taking C anyway

Also, I thought Raloxifene was equivalently priced to Estradiol Valerate? Especially considering that it's normal to take triple dose of E whereas normal dose of R is all you'll realistically need

R OR E, depending on if you want breasts or not.
B and S combine if you reeeealy want maximum power, but R and E compete

>>8577055
This is honestly what I suspected, although the only studies I could find were to the contrary.
I myself will be taking plain old e valerate just to be on the safe side (at least until/unless I determine I no longer want breasts to grow)

>>8577080
micronized estradiol is the hemihydrate

>>8577080
17-B estradiol is the ingredient in both

The difference is the medium: whether it's bound as a salt for instant release, or bound to a synthetic fat product for slow release

what >>8577086 said is true as well, though. "micronized" is the hemihydrate AFAIK

>>8577082
I don't really care about being castrated so i think i'm going with cypro. I don't really want to deal with S side effects >>8575919

R would be better but it's far more expensive. I can't order online so i'll get them local. E costs like $12 for 30pills while R costs $100 for 28pills.

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Hi, so I just started 4mg estradiol like this week, but I actually just found out tonight that my estradiol level was 240 pg/ml back before I started the 4mg and was on 2mg. I was wondering if I should keep on with the 4mg or cut down? Maybe 3mg?

>>8577264
nah pham
smoke em if you got em

If you're paying for them yourself it might be worth it to cut back to 3 just to reduce cost by 25% but really either way is good. 4mg is a pretty low dose in any case.

>>8577031
Bicalutamide and raloxifene both indirectly increase estrogen levels.

Bicalutamide blocks the androgen receptor in the hypothalamus and pituitary gland. Raloxifene does the same, but for the estrogen receptor. Since there's very little negative feedback, the pituitary gland increases its production of luteinizing hormone, which in turn causes an increase in the production of testosterone in the testes. The testosterone doesn't bind to the androgen receptor (that's blocked by bicalutamide), but it gets converted to dihydrotestosterone and estradiol by 5-alpha reductase and aromatase, respectively. (Aside: it's not entirely clear if bicalutamide blocks dihydrotestosterone from binding to the androgen receptor at the typical doses people are taking here, 25-50mg/day. If someone can point me to research on the matter, I would be grateful.)

There isn't much research on bicalutamide and raloxifene being used together, but someone who was on both posted their hormone levels in femgen a while back and their estradiol was in the female range.

>>8577031
>>8577322
>and their estradiol was in the female range.
(cont.) However, it's possible this was just due to raloxifene incorrectly registering as estradiol on the blood test.

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>>8577322
Bica does not block DHT, it has 50x less binding affinity than DHT
https://www.nature.com/pcan/journal/v1/n6/abs/4500262a.html
>For example, Furr et al reported that in a radioligand displacement study, bicalutamide bound to a wild-type rat prostate androgen receptor preparation with affnities of around 50 and 100 times less than 5a-DHT and R1881, respectively

Here's a study done on men using bica+ralox, it's the only one done as far as I'm aware
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27771244
Pic related is their hormonal levels

>>8577343
Binding affinity alone isn't enough to determine whether or not something binds to a receptor. You also have to take into account concentration. If the concentration of bicalutamide is 500x greater than DHT, then DHT won't bind to the AR.

>>8577351
Considering the FDA lists hair loss as a side effect of cancer treatment with bica I'd assume it's not enough
It's a common side effect for Casodex
https://www.drugs.com/cons/casodex.html

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>>8577351
Hey
That's actually a good point

zerg rush your androgen receptors

However as >>8577360 points out at that point your hair starts thinking all the bica is ANDROGENS and starts falling out

>>8577343
Here's the relevant Wikipedia quote from the article on bicalutamide:
>Although the affinity of bicalutamide for the AR is approximately 50 times lower than that of DHT (IC50 ≈ 3.8 nM),[256][61] the main endogenous ligand of the receptor in the prostate gland, sufficiently high relative concentrations of bicalutamide (1,000-fold excess)[53] are effective in preventing activation of the AR by androgens like DHT and testosterone and subsequent upregulation of the transcription of androgen-responsive genes.[188][327] At steady-state, relative to the normal adult male range for testosterone levels (300–1,000 ng/dL),[328] circulating concentrations of bicalutamide at 50 mg/day are 600 to 2,500 times higher and at 150 mg/day 1,500 to 8,000 times higher than circulating testosterone levels, while bicalutamide concentrations, relative to the mean testosterone levels present in men who have been surgically castrated (15 ng/dL),[329] are 42,000 times higher than testosterone levels at 50 mg/day.[21][167][330][22][331]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicalutamide#Drug_levels.2C_androgen_levels.2C_and_efficacy

Ima go for a bike ride now, but I'll check the references when I get back.

>>8577360
Is it male pattern baldness or just baldness?

>>8577378
>Is it male pattern baldness or just baldness?
I can only find it listed as hair loss, doesn't mention what kind

I know usually for prostate cancer they use bica+duta though.

does all this shit mean bica will make me bald or what

>>8577656
This means bica is still under research with unproven side-effects and Cypro/Spiro are more reliable? Something like that

>>8577656
Well if you're worried just take fina or duta. But cypro+fina is still the best for reversing hair loss

>>8577755
>But spiro+fina is still the best for reversing hair loss
FTFY

>>8574464
So I've been on cypro 25mg for a while (2.5 months), will switching to Spiro change much?

>>8577887
Sorry i still have to catch up with the thread but is your hair thinning since before or after you started cypro? Are you on E?

>>8577916
wrong person, hair not thinning

>>8577656
This anon is correct: >>8577752
Bicalutamide has not been proven for hormone replacement therapy. Spironolactone, with all its faults, is the proven antiandrogen. It has been used successfully for many years on thousands of trans people.

What's the best time to take progynova? In the morning or before bed?

Just a few quick questions. Im on spiro right now, was on 200 mg but lowered to 150 as they have been contributing to me getting a lot of kidney stones recently. Im thinking of swapping to cypro if i can convince the doctor but im worried about my dick not being able to work anymore and the depression. How likely are these things to happen?

Also are there any supplements i should be taking on cypro ? Thx

>>8578122
It's been used for treatment of precocious puberty since 2006 at least

>>8578455
Split your dose if you can

Even though it's valerate it's still got a pretty slow half-life

I take half before bed and the other half either with the first meal of the day or immediately after exercise if I'm exercising that day

(My "exercise regimen" consists of biking maybe once every 2.5 weeks :/)

>>8578963
Okay, thank you for the help.

>>8578958
Yes, but that's not hormone replacement therapy. The goal of treating precocious puberty is to delay puberty for a couple years. The goal of MTF HRT is to become the little girl.

does qhi have raloxifene?

>>8579424
Supposedly they do if you ask for it.