Why are LGBT people in Europe and USA/Canada such Islam apologists?

>>8546948
Islam apologists?
What do we have to apologise about Islam for...?

>>8546961
Existing

>>8546966
Okay. You know that the numbers we use are Islamic right...? And pretty much the entire modern world wouldn't exist without those numbers, because every other form of counting was so complex?

>>8546977
>because every other form of counting was so complex?
Top fucking kek. Thank you muslims for your lack of complexity.

>>8546948
Maybe because as one group that has been maligned, abused, assaulted, and oppressed mostly by right wingers, they feel solidarity with Muslims (who are getting the same treatment at the moment).

>>8546977
>a culture made scientific advances many centuries ago, so we should defend that culture even though it now only produces suicide bombers and acid throwing

>>8547014
.... you do realise every technological advancement has been to make the performance of tasks less complex?
You're from some Slav nation that has no value to the world, aren't you?

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>>8547050
the difference is muslims deserve it

and of course this was my fucking captcha

>>8546977
Our number system is from India

>>8546948
It has to do with the whole acceptance movement and the prevalence of intersectionality theory. Lets say you want to accept a marginalized group in society, say trans. Well, why shouldn't you accept other groups? Give a reason against it and now you are a bigot, so your hands are kindoff tied behind your back.

>>8547064
>muslims deserve it
why?

>>8547073
tf? do you see anything happening in Europe right now? the terrorism, the hostility. it's self-evident why.

>>8547073
Ask the people who used to work at the world trade center

>>8547061
>A culture that took credit for those advancements from other cultures they conquered and still swear up and down they made them despite contradictory evidence

Even worse

>>8547087
Who are the people taking credit for those accomplishments?

You're like the people who defend musicians who raped or murdered people because they released good albums decades ago

>>8547096
Oh, I was talking about Muslims doing that shit. They're notorious for taking credit for medicines and such made by non-muslims that were later conquered by them.

>>8547084
>>8547079
I'm struggling to see why you think that Muslims are responsible for that.
I live in Europe so I see what is happening there. Heck I even live in Manchester, but the number of muslims who have committed terrorist attacks in Europe is at most hundreds, whereas there are tens of millions of muslims in Europe.
You could equally point to Irish terrorist groups and therefore conclude protestants and catholics deserve oppression for the same reason. Or indeed you could say the terrorists Anders Breivik, Thomas Mair and Darren Osborne mean white European men should be oppressed and maligned.
You have to explain why Muslims deserve it, which means the >99.9% of muslims who have never killed anybody.

>>8547116
Right, not like rapes happen pretty much daily nowadays in my country alone. Add sexual assault and its probably around 5 times daily. And no this isn't Sweden. What is it with that impenetratable denial u guys surround urself with.

>>8547116
The difference between the IRA and ISIS is that you could sit down with the IRA and found what they want (Free from British control ) Isis on the other hand wants the complete destruction of the western world/culture

>>8547116
>99.9% of muslims who have never killed anybody.
ok, sure, but what about all those who believe sharia law is the only rightful law and literally want to force it? all those who believe homosexuality is wrong, and those who believe the only solution is death? all those who believe it is justifiable to lie about islamic tenets for the purpose of destroying "heretics"? all these things are in the koran. "moderate" islam is hella radical.

>>8547121
That's a non-sequitur unless you're implicitly claiming muslims carry out disproportionally more rapes and/or sexual assaults than other regions, and that would be a claim that would require evidence.
I just tried googling statistics on that matter and couldn't find anything, So please state your sources.
>>8547137
And there were and are paramilitaries in Northern Ireland that you couldn't sit down with too. Indeed there are still a few active paramilitaries which persist after the peace process simply because some small fraction of those involved only want to see destruction of the other side, be it catholic or protestant.
Now ISIS is simply a particular group which, yes, consists of Muslims, but ISIS is estimated to have 15-20 thousand fighters so is representative of about 0.001% of the Muslim population. So again you have to explain why the 9.999% of Muslims who aren't in ISIS deserve being maligned, beaten, killed, humiliated and deported.

>>8547159
*99.999% of muslims who aren't in ISIS
whoops

>>8546961
anyone who defends islam is a rape apologist

>>8546977
literally none of the things that islam claims to have invented actually were, they just fucking stole that shit while overrunning and pillaging nerd libraries in ancient rome and fucking up all the trade routes and claimed they invented shit when no muslim ever had a single innovative thought

even islam itself was designed by jews

>>8547069
muslims literally reject all other beliefs systems and think gays should convert to islam and become eunuch slaves or die

the only way for lgbt to support islam is to actually have learned nothing about it

>>8547116
its not about terrorism itself it's about the actual content of their ideology

https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9668.0

>>8547155
>WANT sharia law
>BELIEVE homosexuality is wrong
>BELIEVE only solution is death
I tend to take the position that it's what you do that matters, not what you think.
>want to force it
I don't know what percentage of muslims in my country (the UK) think these things, but they've not forced anything on anyone. There are Sharia courts in the UK which have the same legal status as community arbitration courts, i.e. absolutely no power but resolve disputes within communities on a voluntary basis. Again nobody is being forced, nobody is being stoned for adultery.
>>8547174
>it's about the actual content of their ideology
What is that again?
Specifically what do you disagree with in Islamic canon?
I should expect you to quote-mine a few disgusting parts of the Qur'an calling for killing of homosexuals and so on, but the problem with that is that you can quote-mine more or less any religious text and find these kinds of quotes.
The problem with this approach is that is places a much greater emphasis on scripture than is actually warranted. There are muslims who take the Qur'an and use it to justify terrorism (ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc), whereas there are muslims to take the Qur'an and use it to condemn terrorism (Muslim Council of Britain, Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, etc). Equally there are groups that use the bible or any religious text in the same way.
People aren't nearly as influenced by scripture as you seem to assume. People generally use scripture to justify whichever position they already held, be it peaceful or not.

>>8547159
>So please state your sources.
https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung/KriminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_2016.html

Page 16
Make that over 2 rapes/day in 2016 as opposed to 2015 where it was little more than 1/day.

The western idea of coexistence is best exemplified in the first amendment. The Islamic idea of coexistence is the Pact of Umar and jizya.

>>8547190
>>WANT sharia law
>>BELIEVE homosexuality is wrong
>>BELIEVE only solution is death
>I tend to take the position that it's what you do that matters, not what you think.
you might as well defend neo-nazi activists too then

>>8547190
>but the problem with that is that you can quote-mine more or less any religious text and find these kinds of quotes.
you say that but you actually have done no research and made no comparisons and have no actual knowledge of how people express these beliefs in modern times and don't actually know any muslims on a personal level or have any historical knowledge of how muslims have actually lived and what they've done

>>8547172
This is of course a sweeping generalization, there are plenty of muslims who do not hold these beliefs. Again you can quote mine the Qur'an and find quotes that justify these positions, but you could equally find quotes that denounced them. See my response here >>8547190 concerning scriptural determinism.
>>8547193
I don't speak German so will have a lot of trouble responding to this, but these numbers are completely meaningless without the context of the rape rates among the general population in Germany.
First thing to note is that is sex offences committed where at least 1 suspect was a immigrant, not where at least one suspect was muslim. Since Muslims only make up a fraction of immigrants they will only make up a fraction of these crimes. In addition it ignores the sexual offences committed by native born Muslims.
Now I don't know where the original source of this figure is, but this article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugees-responsible-for-tiny-proportion-of-sex-crimes-in-germany-despite-far-right-claims-following-a6884166.html
puts total sex crimes committed in 2015 as 47,000, which means that immigrants were only responsible for 3.6% of total sex crimes. Immigrants made up 4.77% of the population of Germany in 2015: source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population which means they had a sex crime rate disproportionately lower than the native population of Germany in 2015.

>>8547251
>Again you can quote mine the Qur'an and find quotes that justify these positions, but you could equally find quotes that denounced them.
no, you can't. that's bullshit. The qur'an rejects everything outside it's teachings with violence and forceful conversion and displays of terror and bloodlust and demands for submission from all people the entire way through

It's entirely trannies and feminist "allies." Gays are getting sick of politcally bending over for a culture that has and always will hate them.

>>8547202
Well I suppose I would defend Neo-nazis from being murdered and beaten up if they didn't put any of their beliefs into practice.
>>8547208
I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue here other than I'm bad at arguing, which may well be the case, but it doesn't mean that you're correct. You're certainty wrong on one thing though and that's that I "don't know any Muslims". at the moment I have a couple of Muslim friends, and had several throughout school. In addition I have many muslim acquaintances and have lived my entire life in two cities with 8% and 5% of the population muslim.
>>8547265
I can actually, here are some quotes that extol peace and goodwill that literally took all of 5 seconds to find:
>“You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”
>“You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.”
>”And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him (saying) : We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you..”
>"Let there be no compulsion in (the acceptance of) religion."
>"Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors" (2:190)
>“and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.
> “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
I could go on but I won't. If you google "peacful qur'an quotes" or "qur'an quotes against killing" you'll find these.

>>8547285
>>8547265
too long to post, but continued
You can equally find pretty dodgy quotes in the bible:
>Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
> “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
>A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
>Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
>If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
> They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
>Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
> “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty [death] for their error.” (Romans 1:27)
Yet you don't see Christian countries with Christian terrorists going around murdering gays, adulterers, non-believers- oh wait you do!
Christian militias commit war rape and massacres in failed states in africa like the central african republic. Guess Christians are deserving of oppression and beatings then!

>>8546948
They hate themselves and want to die, just like us.

>>8546948
Leftism.

>>8547251
>Since Muslims only make up a fraction of immigrants
In what world?
If you want statistics by countries, they're there. Just a few pages ahead.

Also did you look at the date of your article? Bit dated. They dont even include what happened after new years.
I'm quite done trying to convince your thick skull that youre absolutely wrong, theres just too many of you and youre not here to make up your mind. Just wait for the 2017 report, if that wont convince you youre hopeless.

>>8547329
A fraction can be 20%, 80% or 99% or whatever, I didn't specify that it was a small fraction just "a fraction". What I was doing was saying it isn't 100% (which it isn't).
I was specifically talking about 2015 because the statistics for 2015 are available. I couldn't find the total number of reported rapes for 2016, nor the migrant percentage of population for 2016.

>>8547342
Only the last third or so of 2015 saw immigrants flowing in, those statistics are more or less worthless.

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>>8547357
Far more migrants arrived in 2015 than 2016, it's natural to assume the migrant crime rate increase would reflect the increased migrant population, but there's no reason to assume that the migrant crime rate would increase disproportionate to that increase.
The problem is whenever I respond to your assertions with evidence to disprove whatever you said you simply shift the goalposts and require me to go and do a bunch more research, but you've not really provided proof of any of your claims.

>>8547285
>>“You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”
all unbelievers are considered aggressors against the teachings of allah
>>“You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.”
they believe that all who are human are born muslim and that those who have strayed have already sinned against allah
>>”And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him (saying) : We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you..”
when they say for the sake of allah, they mean "only if they are muslim or convert to islam"
>>"Let there be no compulsion in (the acceptance of) religion."
this means you have to accept it in your heart
>>"Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors" (2:190)
again, the aggressors are those who do not believe in islam, this is saying, don't fight other muslims (fight everyone else)
>>“and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.
as in don't kill any muslims unless they do something gay or something
>> “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
again, only muslims, corruption is literally anything that's against the teachings and not explicitly inclusive within them

>>8547398
>all unbelievers are considered aggressors against the teachings of allah
[citation needed]
>they believe that all who are human are born muslim and that those who have strayed have already sinned against allah
[citation needed]
>>”And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him (saying) : We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you..”
[citation needed]

etc

Seeing as I went to the effort of quote mining I expect you to do the same to prove your assertions.
Now if you do that (but I doubt you will) we will have collectively demonstrated how easy it is to justify any particular viewpoint you want, be it violent or peaceful, using a religious text like the Qur'an or Bible or Torah.

>>8547302
>>Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
old testament, i.e. jewish
>> “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
OT
>>A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
OT
>>Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
OT
>>If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
OT
>> They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
OT
>>Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
this one isn't even that bad
>> “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty [death] for their error.” (Romans 1:27)
this one is about syphilis

>>8547397
Except what I say is mostly backed by the BKA's document whereas you refer to news sites with god knows what ressources from a time when those people literally just arrived, why would they immediately start terrorizing the public if they got a few more important things to settle first, like idk, where to live?
I hope you calling these things evidence is a joke.

>>8547419
there's no point in arguing with or trying to convince a shill I'm just shooting you down to protect my friends from your lies

>>8547302
Funny how Christan and Jewish countries don't enforce things like this in law, despite them being in the holy book.

Why are Muslims so different when it comes to scriptural literalism?

>>8547428
anon the only reason you think of them as human is because you don't know them. the entire purpose of islam is brainwashing to the point where the human part is removed from a person and there exists only islam instead of morality, rational thought and cause and effect and shit just doesn't exist for them anymore, it gets thoroughly destroyed in their childhood and every part of them is conformed until they submit absolutely and totally to the teachings and accept them as perfect

>>8547439
it's the history man, if you learn the history you will shit your pants and realize that sikhs all carry knives for a reason

>>8547444
Oh I'm well aware.

>>8547428
>Except what I say is mostly backed by the BKA's document
No it isn't, I already pointed out to you that those are the number of crimes committed by migrants which is completely meaningless if you don't have the crime rate among the general population.
You're being really silly if you don't understand that while it sounds really bad to say that thousand crimes are carried out by people named Steven every day, until you consider that that means only 1 in 1000 people called Steven are committing crimes each day and you have 1 million people called Steven. What matters more is does being called Steven raise your likelihood of committing crime? For this you need to consider what crime rates are for other male (since otherwise you would overestimate crimes committed by Stevens compared to the rest of the country) names and compare (or better the crime rate for the entire male population).
You're either completely statistically illiterate or intentionally committing sophistry because it really isn't that hard to understand.

>>8546977
>Islamic
>numbers
You mean "Arab".

Also, Muslims hate you for being a degenerate faggot, so why defend them?

>>8547463
he's not gay or lgbt he's a muslim shill whose here trying to weaken the opposition

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>>8547050
>Maybe because as one group that has been maligned, abused, assaulted, and oppressed mostly by right wingers, they feel solidarity with Muslims
Muslims dominate several countries and are 1,000,000,000 strong in this world and growing. They only people that "malign, abuse, assault and oppress" Muslims is other Muslims.

Also saying "Please don't suicide bomb me or behead me" is not oppressing someone.

>>8547444
So you're literally denying Muslims are human?
That's pretty much racism exemplified.

>itt taqiyah

>>8546948
Is that Robin in the front?

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>>8547116
>You have to explain why Muslims deserve it, which means the >99.9% of muslims who have never killed anybody.
Read the Koran. I did. It calls for mass murder and fanatical obedience.

I don't like Muslims because I understand what their ideology is. It's an ideology that doesn't involve people like you or me in this world. Why? Because people like you and me would be publicly martyred.

Watch this video. This is a devout Muslim woman who was falsely accused of burning a Koran. A random mob of of other Muslims beat her, stoned her, praised God and burned her to death. Imagine her terror, the betrayal; only you aren't a Muslim like them.

Also keep in mind that this isn't precisely a cultural thing as many of the fighters in ISIS are born in raised in Western nations, not backwards shitholes like Afghanistan, yet they still act like this.

Islam means "Obedience" not "Peace.

>>8547475
>muslim
>race
I guess all Christians are white then, black Christians don't exist.

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>>8547472
>Muslims dominate several countries and are 1,000,000,000 strong in this world and growing. They only people that "malign, abuse, assault and oppress" Muslims is other Muslims.
Completely irrelevant, Christians are often oppressed in countries where they are the minority, Muslims are often oppressed in countries where they are the minority.
Having 1 billion other followers of your religion is meaningless if you live in a country where you are the minority, that is not hard to understand.
>saying "Please don't suicide bomb me or behead me" is not oppressing someone
That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the reality that is the racist hate crimes that are committed against Muslims such as beatings, racist slurs, damage to property, threats of violence and racist verbal abuse, oh and murder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Finsbury_Park_attack). I don't know the numbers in other countries, but there are thousands of racist hate crimes reported against muslims every year in the UK, and it has been sharply increasing recently.

>>8547524
That's a very pedantic point which serves only to justify hate speech against a marginalised group as
>AT LEAST IT ISN'T RACISM!!!
but the majority of people would correctly recognise it as racism.

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>>8547529
>Completely irrelevant
But it isn't.

Muslims don't suffer under Jim Crow or anything. People just don't like religious nuts.
>Muslims are often oppressed in countries where they are the minority.
explain how they are oppressed. People being afraid or not fond of you isn't "oppression".
>but there are thousands of racist hate crimes reported against muslims every year in the UK, and it has been sharply increasing recently.
I wonder why.

Also, you can't be racist against Muslims because Islam isn't a race, it's a belief that they can abandon anytime and join the 20th century and the human race.

Realize this now: Islam isn't something you should endorse or defend. It will destroy a person like you because in an Islamic world you would not be allowed to exist. There is no such thing as "Moderate Islam", it is an extreme belief system.

>>8547537
Keep in mind that Islamic ideology has its origins in the cult of personality founded by a murderous warlord who conquered the tribes of Arabia and forced them to convert (in case it's not obvious: that warlord was the so-called prophet of Islam, Mohammed)

I believe it makes perfect sense to "marginalize" Islamic believers when you consider the history of the ideology, it is a very dangerous ideology, like Fascism

>>8547501
Good eye.

>>8547251
>This is of course a sweeping generalization, there are plenty of muslims who do not hold these beliefs.
Those people aren't Muslims within any definition of the term. Ask a Muslim.

Any act of war against Dar al-Harb is morally justified, legal and exempt from any ethical judgment

>>8547450
Muslims did some fucked up things to Sikhs.

>>8547515
>>8547116
>I never posted the video
Again, this is how Muslims treat Muslims that "might" not be true believers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txEVnN_b5o8
Where do you think gays or even non-Muslims fit in their world?

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>>8547547
>But it isn't.
This is the level or argument now, is it?
I would be oppressed as a Christian if I lived in Saudia Arabia. But by your assertion I couldn't be because Christians dominate several countries and are 2,200,000,000 strong in this world and growing.
It's irrelevant if you're a Christian in a non-Christian country isn't it?
Then it must be irrelevant if you're in a Muslim in a non=Muslim country.
You can't have it both ways.
>I wonder why
because of racists like you unfortunately.
Now there is a bit of a paradox here, you claimed that Muslims aren't oppressed in the west but then you don't deny the hate crimes committed against them in the west. You can't have it both ways.
>Also, you can't be racist against Muslims because Islam isn't a race
see >>8547537
>It will destroy a person like you because in an Islamic world you would not be allowed to exist.
Just like these LGBT turks were destroyed in Turkey, a muslim majority country?
Why do you ignore the LGBT people killed in christian russia and christian uganda?

>>8547576
>This is the level or argument now, is it?
lol, you're the dismissive dickhead that's all like "NO! Muslims are peesFULL!! COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT!"
>I would be oppressed as a Christian if I lived in Saudia Arabia.
Saudi Arabia, no. Egypt, Yes.
Wait, are you one of those "gender queer" ugly straign white girls that think being gay is the "oppression Olympics" and it's all about getting oppression points? Because fuck off if you are.

Look, whether you like it or not Islam and Muslims will never embrace you with open arms. Islam doesn't like anything "different" and they don't like change. You would be thrown from a roof if you were lucky, but Muslims would likely do worse.

Fuck it, you're so stupid about this subject they just might. I can see an idiot like you going on "vacation" to some Middle Eastern shithole and flaunting your gayness or worse pissing off the nut jobs at your local mosque.

Do yourself a favor, steer clear of Muslims. Don't assume they will like you because they don't.

To spite uppity christcucks

>>8547571
That is how some particular Muslims treated someone who might not be a true believer.
But I'm afraid that "some particular muslims" is not the same as "muslims". And that's really the fatal flaw in all your arguments, they rely on sweeping generalizations that just don't reflect the views of the vast majority of muslims in the world.

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>>8547576
>Why do you ignore the LGBT people killed in christian russia and christian uganda?
The Russians that are the most hardcore about killing gays are Muslim you idiot.

Also you are making a huge fucking mistake here by pointing out that crazy ass Ugandans also kill gays. I don't support anyone who kills gays as part of their ideology.

You pretend, on false pretenses, that because "Huur, Christians kill gays too!!!" it makes Muslims innocent. You're a fucking idiot.

>>8547607
>muslims kill gays
>this somehow makes christians innocent when they do it

>>8547604
>That is how some particular Muslims treated someone who might not be a true believer.
That was a fucking mob of random people who joined in on the killing in a righteous way and government officials went on social media praising the mob violence after.

You're either a Muslim lying your ass off or completely fucking delusional.
>And that's really the fatal flaw in all your arguments, they rely on sweeping generalizations that just don't reflect the views of the vast majority of muslims in the world.
The vast majority of Muslims believe in capital punishment for gays. This isn't something you can ignore or say doesn't exist.

>>8546948
I'm not, I fucking hate them.

>>8547604
The vast majority of Muslims want Shariah. The vast majority of Muslims believe homosexuality is immoral.

>>8547615
That wasn't my fucking point retard. It's the opposite.

That was essentially the argument you were making for Muslims.

Muslims are violent and kill groups they don't like. Their crimes aren't erased when you pull your bullshit red herring argument about Christians doing bad shit too.

>>8547607
>You pretend, on false pretenses, that because "Huur, Christians kill gays too!!!" it makes Muslims innocent. You're a fucking idiot.
No, that was not the point of that at all, I was illustrating how easily you can tar an entire group of billions of people with the actions of a minority of those people. You see this post >>8547571 "This is how MUSLIMS treat those..." etc. but it is not muslims it is SOME PARTICULAR MUSLIMS. I was illustrating why the argument was fallacious by applying it in a different circumstance that you would hopefully recognise as leading to a false conclusion, i.e that Christians kill gays. Again, some particular Christians kill gays is the correct conclusion.
The incorrect argument is to cite bad thing done by people who are members of group X and use it to draw general conclusions about group X. That is not a correct syllogism, it is simply logically non-cogent. I cannot get any simpler than this for you to understand it.

>>8547622
Not all Muslims are violent, and and not all muslims kill groups they don't like.

>>8547631
#NotAllMuslims

>>8547571
Not all Muslims treat suspected non believers that way.
>>8547567
Not all Muslims did fucked up things to Sikhs.

>>8547624
>SOME PARTICULAR MUSLIMS.
No, it's a fucking consensus. Muslims despise gays. It's illegal to be gay and harshly punished in Muslim majority nations.
>>8547631
Muslims cheer on and permit violence. Just because there's one executioner doesn't mean the crowd isn't part of the execution.

You don't fucking get Sharia law, do you?

>>8547635
Is >>8547631 not true?
Can you just dismiss something true with an ironic hash-tag?
>>8547639
Not all muslims despise gays. It's not illegal to be gay in all muslim majority nations (see for instance Turkey).
Not all muslims cheer and permit violence.

>>8547637
>Not all Muslims did fucked up things to Sikhs.
They could if they would. Why? Because they think God is on their side.

That's the entire fucking point here. Muslims legitimize suffering, oppression, murder and terrorism because they feel righteous about it. Things that Westerners find barbaric or cruel, Muslims consider part of every day life.

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>>8547645

>>8547645
>Not all muslims despise gays.
Then they aren't Muslims.

>>8547645
>Muh Turkey
It's not "okay" to be openly gay in Turkey. The only reason why there are even marginal LGBT rights in Turkey is because of pressure from the EU which Turkey wants to join.

It's not an publicly accepted sentiment. It's politics.

>>8547646
>They could if they would.
You don't know the inner minds of 1 billion people I'm afraid, so that isn't something you know is true. In fact it's actually false.
>>8547647
>5% of muslims said homosexuality was morally acceptable in Albania
okay, so it's correct that not all Muslims despise homosexuality then. I see.
>>8547648
well >>8547647 would disagree with you

>>8547475
>racism
>black lives matter
>h-hitler
these fucking muslims

islam is not a race it is a toxic belief system that uses poor and impressionable lower class youths as expendable soldiers so that rich pedophiles can amass more wealth and collect wives and sex slaves

>>8547658
>islam is not a race it is a toxic belief system that uses poor and impressionable lower class youths as expendable soldiers so that rich pedophiles can amass more wealth and collect wives and sex slaves
BINGO. This is Islam.

Who fucking needs it?

>>8547658
I've already addressed this see >>8547537

>>8547657
>5% of muslims said homosexuality was morally acceptable in Albania
>okay, so it's correct that not all Muslims despise homosexuality then. I see.
That's a pretty fucking bad margin you're using for your shitty argument there. Move to Syria you waste of air.

>>8547548
mohommad is literally worse than hitler and stalin combined if you consider the impact of 1300 years of constant warfare as his legacy

>>8547537
>but the majority of people would correctly recognise it as racism.
Why? Because you have a childish mindset for your morality? I bet you think Donald Trump is "Totally Hitler!" too.

There is nothing wrong with people who are disgusted by a disgusting religion.

>>8547657
Why do you hate gays?

>>8547667
The statement I made was:
>Not all muslims despise gays
Now let's just break that down a bit.
>Not all
Which is logically equivalent to saying there is at least one which does not conform to
>Not all muslims despise gays
So that means there is at least one muslim who does not despise gays.
Now the proof I needed for that was to find at least 1 Muslim person who didn't despise gays. Now 5% of the Muslim population of Albania, so that's actually about 2.5 million people, so I proved my statement with a 250,000,000% margin, which is actually pretty good I would say, wouldn't you?.
>>8547676
I do not hate gays.
>>8547674
No I do not but I see you're just going to name calling now which I will not engage in.

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>>8547676
I'm surprised there aren't two sets of people who go to Syria.

One being radial Muslims trying to join ISIS and the other being SJWs begging to be executed on of their sick videos because of their "white privilege".

>>8547624
it is muslims stop trying to say it isn't muslims anyone who knows what muslims actually believe knows that it was islam and not individuals that perpetrated those killings

>>8547680
>So that means there is at least one muslim who does not despise gays.
>Now the proof I needed for that was to find at least 1 Muslim person who didn't despise gays.
You're making excuses just to make this autistic point. Islam and gays don't mix. No matter how many supposed Muslims you find that champion gay rights, Muslims aren't the kind of people you want in charge of the health, safety and well-being of gay people. So what if there are a million gay-positive Muslims when a fucking BILLION want to see you drawn and quartered.

It's a huge, prominent issue that you're trying to minimize with your "not all Muslims" dogshit.
>Now 5% of the Muslim population of Albania, so that's actually about 2.5 million people, so I proved my statement with a 250,000,000% margin, which is actually pretty good I would say, wouldn't you?
No, that's actually fucking awful.

>>8547680
>The statement I made was:
>>Not all muslims despise gays
>Now let's just break that down a bit.
>>Not all
>Which is logically equivalent to saying there is at least one which does not conform to
>>Not all muslims despise gays
>So that means there is at least one muslim who does not despise gays.
but you hate gays and would gas them like hitler if you had the opportunity

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>>8547680
Indifference to evil is evil. If you support an ideology where both its contents and an extreme majority of it's adherents believe homosexuality is immoral you hate gays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdhtbA194Q

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>>8547697
>Gays being publicly executed, because Islam
>Someone if the crowd shouts "I don't hate you! <3"
>Condemned gay says "T-thanks!"
>The crowd stones and hangs them all to death

>>8547684
But it was a killing carried out by people, people who happened to be Muslims.
An ideology can't kill people on its own, a book is just words on a page. A religion is just a set of believes and practices. A book or a belief cannot kill someone, it takes a human to wield the knife.
>>8547696
No I'm not, I'm literally arguing a very important point and that is one which is against generalizing an entire one billion people and treating them all as the same. It's actually very important not to do this, and many posters have been doing this in this thread and more generally so I think it's very important to counter.
And I'm going to have to say it again unfortunately,
There are some Muslims whom you would want in charge of the health, safety and well-being of gay people.
>It's a huge, prominent issue that you're trying to minimize with your "not all Muslims" dogshit.
No I'm not, there's an awful lot of terrible treatment of LGBT people in the islamic world, and there's an awful lot of terrible treatment of LGBT people by many muslims. I'm not minimising that, but using it to vilify Muslims living in the west or Muslim refugees fleeing from war zones is morally reprehensible.

>>8547701
This guy is great.

>>8547712
>No I'm not, I'm literally arguing a very important point and that is one which is against generalizing an entire one billion people
No, you are arguing to minimize the reality that you are either unable to face to realize and want to lie about it.

I will be on guard around Muslims and never ever travel to a majority Muslim nation. Why? Because I'm gay.

You can make your argument with race. You can make your argument with "country of origin" but Islam isn't something you are born with like skin or eye color. It's not a place. Islam is a belief system.

In that belief system there is a very rigid set of laws and beliefs and that's where your argument falls to shit. This a totalitarian belief system. There is very little room for interpretation and where there is interpretation Muslims kill each other over it.

To have your perspective, there would have to be a profound reform across the Muslim world, but there isn't. I'm not "attacking a race" THIS IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.

Read the Koran. Then you'll understand, otherwise you're ignorant and childish caring more about proudly making your point and virtue signaling rather than facing reality of Islam.

>>8547712
There is no obligation by the west to take in people who hold a morality incompatible with western values, who do not seek to assimilate and in fact hate the west. The vast majority of "war displaced refugees" are economic migrants seeking to take advantage of the German and Swedish social safety net that they didn't pay into. An honest to god refugee would not complain that he is on Italian soil instead of German but would be relieved that he is not in Syria.

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>>8547738
>An honest to god refugee would not complain that he is on Italian soil instead of German but would be relieved that he is not in Syria.
Everytime I see the boatloads of refugees I think "Wow, I didn't think Syrians were 'Amistad' black." or you know, fucking Uzbekistani.

But what do I know, they are all women and children engineers and doctors.

>>8547172
I know. Im just stating the general mindset with our SJW culture.

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>>8547752
I understood you.

What "intersectionality" leads to for gay people is we get fucked over. Look at all of the BLM protests shutting down pride parades.

Why? Because black nationalists have always fucking hated gays and are using are bitch asses as pawns for their spastic, poorly conceived political demonstrations.

Pic related. Who the fuck thought this was a good idea? News flash gay people: If someone is protesting you and shutting down your pride parade, THEY ARE AGAINST YOU.

>>8547069
Because sand Niggers breed like cockroaches, have extremely low iqs, are inbred, and are violent. Basically subhumans. You want Europe to turn into a shit hole like Africa?
Import the third world, you get the third world.
Have 70 iq get 70 iq results.

>>8547712
What do you consider "vilifying"? I believe, given the instances of terrorism by these extremist Muslims (of which we cannot deny) from the same countries as these fleeing refugees, that there needs to be a very precise and accurate screening of the individuals who come through. I think that is logically sound.

We should not generalize an entire religion. Though we can take an objective look into the religion and the instances of anti-LGBT attacks/viewpoints of areas with large Islamic representation. The issue with 5% of Albanian Muslims supposedly accepting gays is that it pales in comparison to the extremely large portion of Muslims who actively believe that homosexuality should be outlawed.

>>8547759
>We should not generalize an entire religion.
>Hasidic Judasim
>Islam
>Scientology
>FLDS
Oh but we should.

>>8547727
>In that belief system there is a very rigid set of laws and beliefs and that's where your argument falls to shit. This a totalitarian belief system. There is very little room for interpretation and where there is interpretation Muslims kill each other over it.
I'm going to assume for the sake or argument that you live in a Christian majority country like the United States, but you can tell me if I'm wrong about that. If I am in fact wrong about that you can be assured that the argument still stands; just remember that there are gay people in the United States and other Christian majority countries who haven't been put to death.

I'm also going to pre-empt accusations of whataboutery by telling you to read the entire post first.

Now Christianity is a very rigid set of laws and beliefs. Take for instance
>"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22
>"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13
Now clearly we can see that there is no room for interpretation. Any man who has sex with a man is to be put to death. Very totalitarian. Yet you are not put to death despite living in a Christian majority country.

Why is that? It is because Christians do not act as their religious text tells them to all the time. In fact they rarely ever do except when it suits them to do so.

So clearly a belief system which has very rigid ideas of what can and can't be done is not followed by many of its followers. The same is true of Islam. While there are many Muslim countries which put gay people to death, there are several that don't. Equally you will find Muslims living outside of Muslim majority countries who aren't in the habit of killing homosexuals.

In addition I already addressed the argument to scripture here >>8547190 but I thought I'd write a more detailed response.

>>8547771
>While there are many Muslim countries which put gay people to death, there are several that don't
those aren't muslim countries then

>>8547771
>Now Christianity is a very rigid set of laws and beliefs.
No it isn't. There are many Christian sects and you are welcome to come and go or never join them in the first place.

Stop with your dogshit false equivalency of Christianity and Islam and pretending like Islam is good for gays and gay rights. Stop making excuses.

Make your fucking argument in Albania or Qatar while waving a big ole' gay flag.
>So clearly a belief system which has very rigid ideas of what can and can't be done is not followed by many of its followers. The same is true of Islam.
That's not what Islam is. You won't even find kindness if the Nation of Islam which is mostly made up bullshit that has nothing to do with actual Islam.

>>8547782
except for Turkey, except I wouldn't be surprised if openly gay people would be easily killed in Turkey from vigilante justice.

But be prepared because this faggot is going to pull out his "Turkey" excuses while ignoring Islam in general.

>>8547771
Christianity is a neutered pomeranian in the west. Islam isn't, with the exception of a small strain found in multi-generational families in the USA. The problem is that apologists like you are actively preventing the neutering and domestication Islam needs to be compatible with the west's values.

Islam, the religion, welcomes LGBT people. Or at least transgender people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun

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>>8547789
>with the exception of a small strain found in multi-generational families in the USA.
lol, whose spoiled brat kids grow up and commit acts of terrorism and join ISIS anyway.

>>8547795
lol, are you fucking serious?

You mean like the program in Iran where they force gay men to have sex change operations or face execution?

Go fuck yourself.

>>8547759
I consider it vilifying to say things like "muslims are violent", "muslims kill groups they don't like", "muslims despise gays", "muslims cheer on violence", "muslims permit violence", "Muslims legitimize terrrorism", "muslims legitimize murder".
Because I know that these things do apply to extremist Muslims, they do not apply to all Muslims, and I have muslim friends who would be shocked by such accusations because they aren't violent murderers and so on.
And this kind of rhetoric would and does provoke violence against muslims who have done none of these things, and I find that sad.

I'm in agreement with you on screening. I think it's in reality very difficult to do in practice given that so many people have no documentation, but I think we in the west have a strong moral obligation to help these people given that western interventions and wars of aggression have destabilized North Africa and the Middle East to the point which the migrant crisis has happened.

I agree with you on not generalizing an entire religion and I agree with you examining anti-LGBT attacks in muslim countries, but I think it's very important not to make statements like "Muslims hate gays" because there are so many that dont and this sort of language encourages violence against Muslims. It might even be true that on a global scale the majority of muslims hate gays, but if you look at Muslim populations (especially second generation Muslims populations ) in western countries where progressive attitudes are more popular you wouldn't find this. And given this rhetoric is usually used by people in the west it probably doesn't apply to the muslim population in their own country unless they are overwhelmingly consist of very recent immigrants.

>>8547827
>I consider it vilifying to say things like "muslims are violent", "muslims kill groups they don't like", "muslims despise gays", "muslims cheer on violence", "muslims permit violence", "Muslims legitimize terrrorism", "muslims legitimize murder".
Being Muslim is a choice.
>and I have muslim friends who would be shocked by such accusations because they aren't violent murderers and so on.
Anecdotal shit and they would gladly live under Sharia. Who gives a shit at that point if they would enforce it or not?

>>8547827
>but I think we in the west have a strong moral obligation to help these people given that western interventions and wars of aggression have destabilized North Africa and the Middle East to the point which the migrant crisis has happened.
>"If we import the wars, we can end them!"
You are a Muslim.

>>8547827
>"Muslims hate gays" because there are so many that dont and this sort of language encourages violence against Muslims.
Oh yes, all those neo-nazis and gays teaming up to hunt down and beat up Muslims.

btw, people are more afraid of violence FROM muslims because that's more common, more brutal and more real than the bullshit you're imagining.

>>8547789
>you are actively preventing the neutering and domestication
The language many people are using is one of hatred and dehumanization. Not at all dissimilar from the anti-Semitism that precipitated the Holocaust.
I'm in favour of reformation in Islam, but you aren't helping that by dehumanizing Muslims and smearing them with disingenuously portrayed crime statistics.
What might actually help is encouraging dialogue between native populations and immigrant populations, making Muslim friends (you don't do that by treating them as sub-humans), and supporting the many proponents of liberal reform in Islam like Maajid Nawaz or the myriad of other people and movements named here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_movements_in_the_Muslim_world.
You generally tend to breed hatred and anxiety in populations by treating them as subhuman, which is not a great crucible for progressive reform.

>>8547863
The onus is not upon the west but upon the Islamic world. Once you stop thinking kaffir to be subhuman and stop calling the rest of the world the house of war, Dar al-Harb, can dialogue happen between equals.

>>8547863
>I'm in favour of reformation in Islam
are you a Muslim?
also
>favour

>>8547836
>Being Muslim is a choice
Um, sooo?
>>8547839
>>8547874
I am not a Muslim.
>>8547843
>Oh yes, all those neo-nazis and gays teaming up to hunt down and beat up Muslims.
Well yes, they are, as I already pointed out here >>8547529

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>>8547877
>I am not a Muslim.
then you have no say on that "reform".

>>8546977
They come from India you ignorant fuck.

>flees their country because it's an Islamic shithole
>tries to turn the country they fled to into an Islamic shithole
What did they mean by this?

>>8547065
>>8547168
>>8547463
>>8547936
http://www.archimedes-lab.org/numeral.html

>>8547877
>>Oh yes, all those neo-nazis and gays teaming up to hunt down and beat up Muslims.
>Well yes, they are, as I already pointed out here
guys this actually sounds like a pretty good idea now that I think about it

neo-nazis think traps are cute and just want to protect their waifus soo they can watch the animus togheter

>>8546977
>confusing islamic with arabic
typical retard, i see.

>>8547979
Yes, it comes from india. It got here by muslims but it's hardly their invention. It's like claiming that tetris is a british invention because Andromeda popularised it in the west.

>>8547771
>"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13
Now clearly we can see that there is no room for interpretation. Any man who has sex with a man is to be put to death.

That's just completely false, of course there is room for interpretation. If it was "any man who has sex with a man", the verse would read "If a male lies with a male, both of them have committed an abomination..." However it says AS WITH A WOMAN, which may mean something...like, I don't know...anal sex ?

>>8550826
Or gay marriage. Or a female-attracted male sleeping with a male. Or something else. Or a mix of things.

>>8546948
Never go full retard. Read about Islam you fucking cunt.

There will come a time when the establishment can't deny the problem any longer. I think it will come sooner than later, or, at least, I hope so.

I'm half-Turkish, and Erdogan's odious behaviour saddens me, but I'm more astounded by the number of Turks that buy into his bullshit.

To be honest, talking with a number of British Muslim Pakistanis really opened my eyes. They're very, very backward.

I had a colleague who was a Pakistani. He was in the closet, and fucked guys on the side. However, all the while, he had a beard that all of his non-Muslim friends knew about. But, of course, I knew his real secret. Both of these things were obviously kept secret from his family. Islamic approaches to sexuality are just mind-boggling.

Fuck Islam.

>>8546948
They know they are degenerates to be eradicated and so they defend the only ideology which is willing to exterminate them instead of ignoring (christians) or accept (atheists) them.

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>>8547168
>no muslim ever had a single innovative thought
The EPA's permissible lead standards may need to be reevaluated.
>even islam itself was designed by jews
Jews = Master race
How can whitey even compete, these people did 9/11, invented quantum physics, nuclear physics, psychoanalysis, control the media, the republican party, the democartic party, invented Islam, invented Christianity, put flouride in the water, wrote the 10 commandments, wrote the movie spaceballs, did pizzagate, watergate, nipplegate, seinfeld.
I don't know what you delusional stormfags are talking about when you say that whites are the best, because obviously they cant even tie their shoes with out the jews doing it.

Seriously though, I really don't like islam one bit, but petty tribalism (ook, ook eyyrabs r dumb) is not an argument, and makes you look like a chimp with a learning disability.