Best way to declaw yourself completely?

>>8539189
Listening to TERFs can be a form of self harm for trans women. They gaslight us to believe we are dangerous and don't deserve to exist (even if unintentionally). Also, you're not going to get a straight answer, because there are loads of TERFs here.

People are going to think what they want. Live your own life.

Two quotes for you:
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
"Living well is the best revenge."

t. trans woman who listened to TERFs and has recovered

>>8539209
>"Living well is the best revenge."
Why do you feel the desire for revenge, anon?

>>8539237
"revenge" is a misnomer, it's just the quote. I want to improve my life kinda in spite of the people who have put me down.

>>8539189
>Best way to declaw yourself completely
-refuse progesterone
-cut your balls off, LOL, or better yet, get a subcapsular orchiectomy so that you still have that weak point
-avoid any supplemental testosterone
-make sure you are oversocialized
-get therapy, particularly interpersonal psychoanalysis and ego psychology
-maybe some CBT too

>>8539287
>refuse progesterone

Why?

>cut your balls off, LOL, or better yet, get a subcapsular orchiectomy so that you still have that weak point

Not nearly safe enough, I need SRS.

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>>8539189
We can try suicide. I'm planning it, by exsanguination probably. But I haven't been able to test out the tool in using enough so it might not work unless I can practice more. Too much aggressive practice and an expensive tool breaks and I could get institutionalized.


Do you have a better idea for suicide?

>>8539295
No, let's try suicide instead. Hons do srs and it doesn't help them. I just need a method that will work and not get me institutionalized or cause permed any heart damage.

>>8539189
most women aren't TERFs or man hating radfems, just look for friends elsewhere

>>8539189
honestly, you kind of sound like one of the "quiet ones" we were talking about in this thread the other day >>8531834 , you're just believing untrue things about yourself :(

come talk over in /lesgen/? pretty accepting general

>>8539306
Please don't. Cut off the most toxic people among the ones you know.
If you don't trust the psychiatrists you've seen try EMDR or voice dialogue therapy.

>>8539295
Get your dick cut off AND get only the insides of your balls cut out. It's the only way to declaw yourself six ways from sunday.

And progesterone is stimulatory, kind of like androgens are.

This thread is fucking insane and if any of you actually believe this shit you should feel ashamed.

>>8539306
depending on where you live assisted suicide

>>8539353
90% of it is ironic

post-post-irony was a mistake

>>8539315
Most people are terfs. Most are just slightly more polite than the aggressive butch lesbians blogging about it.
But pls don't oppress women by transitioning, that shit is gross.

>>8539348
Even then I've already lost the ability to function so I'll just go insane alone. It's a tricky thing I would need to cut past muscle if I wanted to die successfully. But I haven't tried beyond subcutaneous. If I practice and cut muscle I'll probably need to be seen by a doctor and that means questions

>>8539347
Maybe. I am very quiet, sometimes people can barely hear me. Maybe I'll come over there...

>>8539353
Why does it sound crazy? Everything I said is true, it's just how I feel.

It's interesting how aggressive the trannies with sunken cost fallacy are in this thread.
You've already invested way too much into transitioning to see the terf light, so you're calling everything with a different worldview 'crazy'.
But, the irony is that makes you crazy.

>>8539368
oh hey looks like >>8539209 was right

stop fucking gaslighting trans people. transitioning does not oppress you. most people are not terfs. if most people were terfs the oh-so-inevitable mass peak trans you keep praying for would have already happened.

most people don't really give a fuck what others do that doesn't concern them. you are the exception

>>8539378
Have you detransitioned or killed yourself? If not you're a hypocritical hon

>>8539380
That's not what gaslighting means you can't throw around words you don't understand.
You are the exception. You will always be the exception in any social group and statistically.
It's time to face reality, and not the hugbox that is /tttt/.

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>
Men are dangerous because they posses dicks. Anyone who doesn't have a dick isn't dangerous or a potential rapist tbqh.

You know what to do, OP.

t. TERF lvl 99

>>8539385
I will. I stopped all meds and I plan to die. What are you planning to do for the cause, hon? If you won't sacrifice, you're just yet another hypocritical old man.

>>8539386
I'm trying. I've been trying to write a GoFundMe. But it's probably already too late. But maybe I can find another surgeon....

>>8539385
> /tttt/
> hugbox
kek

oh, and gaslighting means systematically sowing seeds of doubt in an individual or group to manipulate them into questioning their own sanity. how exactly are you and your ilk not doing that by telling trans people they're harmful by existing?

>>8539358
Traveling to the Netherlands or Belgium from the US is too expensive. If I practice cut my arm's muscles it won't actually paralyze my arm will it.

I actually plan to cut my neck but that's something where I only get one try at it. I need to practice how to cut through muscle safely.

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>>8539369
>Even then I've already lost the ability to function so I'll just go insane alone.
You need help anon, and there's nothing shameful about that.
How many of these do you have?

>>8539404
I don't know. I don't have the energy to work through it.

Why do the trans-exclusionary dykes think that natal men feminizing their bodies is somehow a threat to them? You don't OWN the female phenotype so don't act like the entitled men you always speak against, my men.

>>8539404
what is this? why are there two lines? do you have a source?

>>8539412
Easy answer. They're narcissists with an absent capacity for empathy.

>>8539421
>absent capacity for empathy
true of this entire website desu

I've actually been thinking about this alot lately. In retrospect I think the entire reason I ended up trans was progressively greater and greater attempts to declaw myself. I'm not a transbian or anything. I just have some sort of thing about it for some reason. Recently the realization that no matter what I do I'll always be male, or at least not a female has been weighing on me really heavily. I think for those of us who feel the need to declaw, the only real thing to do is kill ourselves. Everything else just makes us suffer even longer.

There's no way I'd be able to hide things if I tried to cut my neck and instead failed and cut through trachea and other stuff. Even if it were less serious. It's almost impossible to hide a big gash on the neck. People might guess I tried to die and have me put away. I'll be even less trusted and more ostracized.

>>8539450
Yes...

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it really worries me how many ppl talk openly about suicide on this board

being trans does NOT mean you are doomed to kill yourself

people are out there who care about you!

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>>8539419
http://sfhelp.org/gwc/1_traits.htm
Two lines in case you want to rate another person

The base idea of the site is that self-harm impulses are caused by "false-self dominance", not by external circumstances. Freeing your true Self to guide you can end these impulses (sfhelp.org/gwc/suicide.htm). This works, and has helped me and others I know.

>>8539410
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ytkhRt7KaA explains everything you need to know, so does pic related
You don't need to harm yourself, anon. People care about you.

>>8539463
Name one (1).

>>8539479
Obviously I can't, because I don't know you. If nothing else, even though I'm just another anon, I care.

>>8539473
I stoped functioning and withdrew from everyone. My cat is the only one who'd care by now.

>>8539487
Do you have a therapist? That's the first step. There's even online therapy if you want to do it from home.

>>8539492
I won't waste a bit of precious money. That's the last hope I have for fixing things

>>8539482
Anyone who thinks anything about me is mistaken. My existence is a mistake. I should never have been born and the fact that I keep living is further evidence of my uselessness. I already know what needs to be done and I still won't do it. I unironically don't deserve life and I'm legitimately upset that I cant just give it to someone else so they can live longer.

>>8539487
Then why not live for the sake of your cat?
You *can* feel better, no matter how hopeless it seems. I'm proof of that.

>That's the last hope I have for fixing things
What do you have in mind?

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>>8539503
That's okay. There are therapists that use sliding scale, or if you don't want to pay anything you might have a community health center near you? Or you could reach out online, to real people, not anons. Off the top of my head, I know 7cupsoftea is a good place for regular conversation.

I know isolation is tempting. it's the only place you feel safe. But other people who care can add so much light to your life.

>>8539506
I know these thoughts. They're in my head too.

These thoughts are not you. They are falsehoods you've started to believe, whether it's depression, or abuse, or reading awful things online. I believe you deserve life. Life justifies itself; those who live deserve it.

You might like this song. It's helped me before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2yeNzL7rTU

>>8539506

Your words make it sound like you accept that life is ultimately a good thing, so fucking own it anon that you're alive in this moment. you're that one sperm who got to the uterus, that means you deserve it more than so many people who will never be born because they'll never have the shot at life you have

>>8539506
You only feel that way because you were emotionally abused by others in one way or another. There's no to abuse yourself because of it.
Have you called a suicide hotline before?

>>8539544
I don't want to bother them. Besides they're just going to tell me to keep on living. That's not the right thing to do. And what if they have me committed or something. It's not a good thing to do.

What does contextualizing yourself as a man even mean? I contextualize myself as a lesbian woman who doesnt fit in well with cishet men or women and fits best with bisexual gender nonconforming people or gay women

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>>8539189
>Is there any way to completely ensure that I'm safe to be around for other people?
Practice basic breathing meditation. (I'll provide a link to a simple guide below) This is a good way to build self-control.

>I purposefully try to speak as little as possible
Don't do that. Trying to keep quiet is almost as bad as trying to be chatty. Just be.

>why do I keep messing up?
>Am I dangerous?
You're only human.

>The women I look up to are strong and have agency. But maybe that's just not possible for someone like me?
It is possible for you. The question is, are you prepared to go through the work and the suffering to become a stronger person?

>>8539579
Here is that meditation guide I promised. This won't bring you supreme enlightenmet or whatever but it is a good, simple mental exercise for self-control and self-reflection.

>http://zenhabits.net/meditation-guide/

>>8539572
>Besides they're just going to tell me to keep on living
Their job is to be an empathic ear that you can vent to (since I assume you have a lot of things to vent about), which is much harder to do on an imageboard.

Either way, the link I posted above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ytkhRt7KaA) is by a therapist, free, and no risk of any personal consequences like getting committed. I hope it can help with your distress.

>>8539627
samefagging
>Besides they're just going to tell me to keep on living
You do deserve to live. Part of you might feel otherwise, but you're clearly friendlier and nicer than most:
>I'm legitimately upset that I cant just give it to someone else so they can live longer
You're a worthwhile human being, and there are ways you can deal with and reduce your distress.
People care. I do.
I felt like
> Anyone who thinks anything about me is mistaken. My existence is a mistake.
too for a long time, and I promise you, I'm infinitely grateful I never went through with it.

>>8539368
>>8539378
>>8539385
>>8539386
I have an honest question? Do you believe in reincarnation?
If it's true, then dying to end a life means you could begin a new one where you get what you want. And there would be nothing wrong about that.

>>8539750
There's no second life. Just this one and we will be judged at the end of it.

>>8539767
Why?

>>8539768
>>8539750
Religious bullshit like that is a vicious thing to bring up in a thread like this. Are you autistic or trolling?

>>8539773
No, I'm trying to rationalize. I'd much rather this just be one of many lives, than have to stop existing after I kill myself.

>>8539773
And besides, there's plenty of people insisting that we're predators for existing. You seem very happy with that, so how is my starting a talk on if I'll get another existence after this one ends any worse?

>>8539782
>there's plenty of people insisting that we're predators for existing
These people are trolling and not representative of the general population. You're taking it harder than you should because you're already in an emotionally vulnerable place.

Look, I'm a cis lesbian and I don't feel threatened by you. You can pee next to me, you can change in my locker room (please use a stall, though), and if someone gives you a hard time about it I'll stick up for you. Just get off this website, honestly - 4chan is a poisonous environment. It can be okay and funny if you're mentally healthy enough to dismiss it all (as it should be), but you obviously aren't at that point right now and will only do yourself harm here.

Stop overthinking. Just go outside and live.

>>8539779
>No, I'm trying to rationalize. I'd much rather this just be one of many lives, than have to stop existing after I kill myself.
It's the only one, unfortunately. Every quack (including Buddhists) that tried to "prove" reincarnation was proven wrong.

>And besides, there's plenty of people insisting that we're predators for existing
You have dignity, and human worth, as every person does. You're not a "predator", or a burden on anybody. People want you to be happy, anon.
>You seem very happy with that
?????
>so how is my starting a talk on if I'll get another existence after this one ends any worse?
I thought you were another anon, not suicidal yourself. Sorry.

As I wrote here (>>8539473), suicide isn't caused by your life circumstances, your feelings are caused by being controlled by a false self. Throwing this life away, and getting a new one, even if it was possible, wouldn't change anything. You can learn to free your true Self to guide you, which can change your life for the better.

>>8539812
>>8539819
It doesn't matter anymore. People here said I had good potential and could make it. I don't know if it was huggboxing or not. It doesn't really matter anyways because I've gotten some new disease and the way it's going I'm better off dead for sure.

People do believe the predator thing. Even nice old professors in universities think that, so I listen to nice like them talk about how they voted for Trump exactly because they were afraid of trannies. So yes, everyone I know would be disgusted or worse.

>Every quack (including Buddhists) that tried to "prove" reincarnation was proven wrong.
Why? I've had animals and I think it's true from observing them.

>>8539812
Hey, this is the OP, and I just wanted to say thank you for being positive and trying to help Kitty (the girl you're talking to). It's true that this website is hella negative and going outside can sometimes give you a better perspective. She's just really sick and suicidal right now, but thank you for trying to help.

>>8539812
not the anon you're talking to, but thanks for saying this. Way too easy to get caught up in the negativity when /lgbt/ is sometimes /mtfhate/. Being anon brings out the worst in people, but thankfully 4chan isn't real life.

I gotta take a break from this place

>>8539850
>People do believe the predator thing.
Toxic people do, and toxic attitudes stem from low emotional health and trauma. This counts for all the haters here too, don't forget that. Their value judgments are predictable.

>It doesn't really matter anyways because I've gotten some new disease and the way it's going I'm better off dead for sure.
If you don't trust suicide hotlines, try at least making a word doc and venting all you need to get off your chest.

>Implying I don't want to be dangerous

> implying I don't love triggering the fuck out of TERFs and other feminazis just through my existence

>>8539929
At the end of the day, you're just a disturbed man and a pity magnet.

>>8539894
>word doc and venting
fwiw the "past authoring" program helped a lot
Dont buy it, it's just:
>divide your life in seven epochs
>write about 4+ emotionally significant/traumatic events (anything where thinking about it still brings up strong feelings like shame regret etc) for each epoch
did it to waste time but it was weirdly relieving
hope all you anons make it out ok, I might be a stranger but I still care about you.

>>8539937
And you're triggered enough to spend time trying to 'prove" that transgenderism doesn't exist, as if that even matters. What if I am just a mentally-ill man? Who cares? I certainly don't. The only people who care are feminazis who are afraid of us. You're the ones who have something to lose if we're not "really" women, because you're the only ones to whom that distinction means anything.

WTF why would I declaw myself? I'm a fierce tigress. Just present yourself in a femanine manor and don't be too cringey. Take your time to figure out style and makeup.

don't be a creep and you'll be fine

>>8539859
>>8539880
You're both welcome.

Sorry I can't do more to help your friend. I'm not trans, but I recognize the state of mind she's in, that mental hole so deep that you feel utterly alone with your pain and can barely even hear what people are telling you anymore. Hope everything turns out okay.

>>8539506
>I unironically don't deserve life and I'm legitimately upset that I cant just give it to someone else so they can live longer.

You can do something like that, indirectly. Work for money, give money to somebody who is being limited by lack of money. The world is full of such people.

>>8540139
She's already giving money to Trant and Cara.

>>8540147
>She's already giving money to Trant and Cara.
She shouldn't, especially not to Trent

>>8539189
don't think like that OP. TERFs are legit retards, literally the equivalent of /pol/ related to the rest of society. If you examine their ideology it's complete bullshit and doesn't actually add up, especially if they present as the "gender critical" type of person. If they don't then they aren't even trying to make an argument, they are just shitty people denying community to the most vulnerable women there are.

>>8540172
Those are her choices of worthy causes.

>especially not to Trent
?

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>>8539189
I'm a cis girl and I promise, terfs are in the minority. They're small in number, just relevant because of their crazy absurdity. They just want to hurt trans women to make themselves feel better.

You're not harming anyone. I promise you don't need to "declaw" yourself. You seem like a sweetheart and I doubt you're a danger to anyone but yourself.

If you need to talk, I can lend an ear no problem. <3

>>8542443
you're a cis girl who uses 4chan
you are the minority you dumb bitch

>>8542447
terf spotted. Calm down

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>>8542443
Thank you *hugs*

Maybe we could talk... How has your day been?

Btw, I'm kind of jealous of Tracer and Emily, they seem like they have a really good relationship.... I know they're just fictional characters tho

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>>8542521
My day has been alright! I got a sunburn though lol.. how is yours??

Yea, Emily and Tracer seem to have a really sweet relationship.. I remember when I first read the comic, I was so happy lol

>>8539394
They just pretend to be different posters when you call them out on it.

In reality the /pol/ and the TERFs would rather every single tranny on Earth kys tomorrow and anything they say otherwise is nothing more than rote deception toward the nature of their intention.

These people have been too conditioned by their meme crusader cause and the internet to show empathy toward another human being.

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>>8542827
Awww, sorry that you got sunburned... My day was alright, I went to therapy and I tried to tell her about some of this stuff, but she just doesn't see me the same way that I do, most people don't. I get how my thoughts about safety and how it's gender-coded can seem kind of crazy to other people. I'm hoping to get a smoothie later today tho....

Do you have any other ships? I feel bad for Widowmaker T__T

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>>8542879
I love smoothies!! If you were nearby I'd take you to get one, there's a lot of smoothie places around here !

I have a lot of ships! For Widowmaker, I've recently been into somber/widowmaker (spiderbyte)!

>>8539404
why can I check every box...

I had so much potential.

>>8542879
In case this thread gets archived, I'll give you my discord: new phone(kat)#3669

>>8539189
People here should read this >>8543864, for your own mental health

>>8544073
It doesn't really help.

>>8539189
>But I would rather die than harm other women in any way

lmao what a liar

> I should just be useful to other people as someone to listen, something to look at, something to touch

You're stupid. There is a very simple way to not annoy us "TERFs" - stop calling yourself a woman.

Circle-jerking idiot.

>>8539812

>Look, I'm a cis lesbian and I don't feel threatened by you. You can pee next to me, you can change in my locker room (please use a stall, though)

You're a massive hypocrite. You don't want to see their dicks anymore than the rest of us but you think you're not threatened by them? You're definitely threatened by them, you liar, you just are trying to pretend you're not.

>>8542940
Awww, that would be nice....

>>8544070
Oh okay, cool!

>>8544149
I don't think that's really negotiable. I'm not that poster but personally if I can't be a woman I don't really want to live. And while we can have a wider debate about whether or not I should even be living in the first place, but I hate being male. It just makes me want to die. I've been trying to fix it as much as I can but I know it will never actually be fixed. I like to think my efforts are worth at least something, but I guess not. I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, it's really tough. And asking us not to try to be women is like asking us to kill ourselves.

>>8544161
I find it interesting that the best our resident faux TERF (because I simply don't believe you're real, you're not bright enough to be a TERF) can come up with is to reduce a transwoman to the state of her genitals.

As I recall, there was a bit of a misgiving with men who did the same to regular women. Odd how quickly that changes when you're desperate to protect your privilege.

>>8544161
Her request is perfectly reasonable, unlike yours ("stop calling yourself a woman").

>>8544149
I'm not OP and I've already said, I stopped all meds and am practicing ways to die. Will I reincarnate, I don't know.

But you're obviously a man, and you're using an atrociously bad impersonation of women and GC. So shouldn't you follow your own advice, predatory man?

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>>8544149
look, I see a terf in her natural habitat!

they're best observed from a distance, they can be quite dangerous. they have a very masculine aura, and you never know when they'll lash out.

>>8544197
I'm sure it's a man. I've spoken to gender criticals a lot. This guy does a bad impersonation like what /pol/ would. He's a hypocrite.

>>8544192

It IS perfectly reasonable to stop insisting mtfs are women! In other cultures they're considered third gender. If mtfs wanted to stop fucking with us they'd stop calling us cis and they'd stop going into women's spaces. They'd advocate for new gender markers on their papers like nbs are, and more unisex bathrooms.

That isn't fucking complicated. It's LITERALLY what nbs are doing!

>>8544190
>genitals.

Not exclusively a measurement of sex.

>As I recall, there was a bit of a misgiving with men who did the same to regular women

That's a trans-inclusive feminist meme. And I seriously doubt you care about "reducing women to their genitals" outside of this issue.

>because I simply don't believe you're real, you're not bright enough to be a TERF

nice neg, chaser scum! And you're right, I don't like radfeminism enough to be a radical feminist.

Who gives a fuck? mtfs are still men.

>>8544177

>I have only two options: redefine what female means or kill myself :( you bigot :(

I have to deal with men, self-hating women and your ass, on top of the ftms who destroy women's spaces and the nbs who call themselves lesbians. Womanhood is being attacked on all sides by everyone. I am not sympathetic. You have the option to be like Miranda Yardley. You have the option to call yourself a transwoman but not a "woman." You have the option to say you are a third gender.

>>8544229
>That isn't fucking complicated. It's LITERALLY what nbs are doing!
There are only two genders. Stop being retarded.

>>8544195
>>8544227

We have spoken several times and you consistently think I'm a man, and it's pretty much because I'm the only vocal "TERF" here that doesn't rely on the same damn memes.

You're a dumb piece of shit with bad grammar. I don't give a fuck, femboy.

>>8544197

Hilarious, given how mtfs threaten to rape and kill us all the time.

>>8544236

Many other social groups are not based in ~biotruths~ but very often on shared history and feelings. There is no reason for the "2 genders" meme. It is literally historically inaccurate.

>>8544229
>Miranda Yardley.
He's a chaser who transitioned in middle age after sexually harassing twenty somethings. He's almost as bad as Aoife who used the cover you gave him to start hitting on teens. You remember how that ended?

You probably wouldn't remember though, not when you're just another man with another atrocious impersonation of a woman.

>>8544239
>because I'm the only vocal "TERF" here that doesn't rely on the same damn memes
Because you're the only one who talks like breitbart posters. Not counting all the men from pol of course.

I need control over my body. It doesn't matter if I'm talking about my autoimmune disease or this. You demand the same.

>>8544248
So you're a terf that believes "non-binary" is a valid thing but is against trans women?

>>8544229
>They'd advocate for new gender markers on their papers like nbs
as soon as trans people were to do that that, oh look, here comes the "only two genders!!!11!" mob. nonbinaries look ridiculous, just like the existence of "nonbinary" in the first place

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>>8544239
wow, just look at all that anger! there's no way this could be a female of the species.

gender essentialism isn't as convincing when it's used against you, is it?

>>8544248
Also, in the end of things, using male role if you're too feminine is trouble in it's own. It doesn't work all that well if you're an adult but look like a perma boy. Everyone who doesn't think you're a kid thinks you're a faggot. You get ostracized. If you don't want to masculinize and become like the other men, maybe, it's just less trouble to transition.

This is all hypothetical of course, I'm not going to take that path.

>>8544266

There's no reason to appeal to science to justify a new social group. That's my point. So of course it's valid.

You know what actually goes against social definitions? Saying that "brain sex" is the MOST important indication of sex, or that women have dicks. Saying some people are not women or men is not stepping on anyone's toes, and it has historical precedence.

>>8544262

You've never been to /pol/ if you think my arguments are similar. Stop fucking lying, dumbass.

>I need control over my body.

Does this include a social transition? No. What trans people are demanding is women to accommodate them at every illogical whim in a social sense. This is very often not about medical care, but harassing people about their sex lives and the words they use like male and female.

>>8544252

You're a dumb femboy. Post some proof that Yardley sexually harassed people.

Aoife always wanted to be accepted more than she wanted to speak the truth. She was always going to burn out.

>>8544268
Practice solidarity. Mtfs were also seen as ridiculous once upon a time.

I forgot that I have another tool. there's hydroflouric acid. I could just shoot it into my veins. It's probably too agonizing to try.

>>8544297
>Practice solidarity. Mtfs were also seen as ridiculous once upon a time.
and it's the fucking more than two genders crowd that makes trans people look ridiculous now

>>8544284

Well, I've got a vagina, so honestly, it is not effective.

>>8544291
Do you think women woke up one day and were just "allowed" to wear pants? We still have little shits like you thinking we're "masculizing" ourselves, that we're deranged, or the trans people who want to pretend we're ftms. Learn something from us for once.

>>8544297
>There's no reason to appeal to science to justify a new social group. That's my point. So of course it's valid.
Non-binary identities are only social though, while trans ones are also physical. Trans women have different brains and experience physical dysphoria. so it's not the same as creating a new gender socially.

>>8544300
that's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. please don't

>>8544303
>that makes trans people look ridiculous now

Only because they haven't had massive liberal sympathy like mtfs have. People get used to things. They also get afraid.

NBs are actually their own enemies because they're doing stupid shit like detransitioning like Jack Monroe because they're afraid or clinging to a pseudo-female identity like calling themselves lesbians.

Also, how long ago was it that mtfs were a huge punchline in mainstream things like Family Guy? Several years? Wow, what will you accept in 5 years, loser?

>>8544297
>You're a dumb femboy. Post some proof that Yardley sexually harassed people.
I'm ill, and I'm tired so I can't play detective for you. The middle aged chaser turned AGP should be obvious enough. You'd be saying the same thing about aoife if it weren't that infamous.
>if you think my arguments are similar
Look at what they say, it is. At least at first glance.

>Does this include a social transition
No, I don't believe in using female clothes or long hair. If I weren't sick, it might have just been easier to go a little further. If you fail boymode no matter what. Then there isn't anything wrong with letting people think you're female.

It would have been easier to just go a little further and just get lost in the crowd rather than just being some weird boy.

>>8544319
> implying mtfs aren't still a huge punchline
> using the same logic conservatives use to justify gay marriage leading to pedophilia and bestiality

>>8544305
>masculizing
Your comprehension is bad as ever. When I say masculinizing I mean body/phenotype only. Clothes are irrelevant, I don't care about steryotypes.

I'm talking about how the only way to not stand out with a male role would be to let testosterone do it's work and turn into a gorilla. If you stay an ando permaboy, then even if you make all your gender ques male, you get bad reactions from others.

>>8544308
If it fails you lose a limb instead so its probably too terrible to try

>>8544305
And yet this is exactly the same shit you radfems throw onto trans women, saying they have "masculine auras" and are doomed to be violent rapists because of testosterone and male socialization. Every time a trans woman tries to listen to you, you move the fucking goalposts, and you won't be happy until they renounce their identities entirely. Guess what: you're not the identity police. *You don't have the right* to tell someone to renounce their identity because you think men are disgusting.

I don't think you're "masculinizing" yourselves. I don't think you're an ftm. I am showing you what your logic looks like to everyone not in your little brownshirt club.

Only therapy can help you. You keep asking for help here because you know damn well you'll never get it from here. Or maybe it's that being abused is the only thing that can make you "feel" anything anymore. Stop. Get therapy. That should be your #1, #2, #3, #10 priority.

>>8544321

>The middle aged chaser turned AGP should be obvious enough.

I'm sorry, but I don't hate ugly mtfs just because. I'm not actually a moronic bigot like you.

>Look at what they say, it is. At least at first glance.
/pol/ is full of people who either want to kill mtfs or fuck them. You're just lying, femboy.

>Then there isn't anything wrong with letting people think you're female.

lmao, but you complain men can't perform femininity without being attacked? I see you're really putting the work in.

>>8544328
>> using the same logic conservatives use to justify gay marriage leading to pedophilia and bestiality
What is this even supposed to mean? I accept nbs, why can't you?

>criminal behavior is a real concern! it's like thinking people can create social groups that harm literally no one! Awful!

>>8544333
here's an example of "masculine aura" of the supposed radfems >>8544197
Here's another: >>8543864

>>8544375
>here's an example of "masculine aura" of the supposed radfems >>8544197
once more, with feeling!
this post is a satire of what you sound like.

also, did you just assume my gender?

>>8544356

Doomed? No. It's not part of radfem thought that even men are "doomed" to be rapists.

>Guess what: you're not the identity police.

Everyone is. Do you think it's justified for straight people to fetishize gay people and want to fuck them? And create a community called guydykes and girlfags? Because that exists. Is it weird and stupid? Yes. What about everyone who thinks there's only 2 genders? Are they the identity police? Yes. You wanna come for them sometime or you going to keep being disengenuous as fuck?

>you think men are disgusting.

Keep tilting at that windmill, Quixote!

>I don't think you're "masculinizing" yourselves. I don't think you're an ftm. I am showing you what your logic looks like to everyone not in your little brownshirt club.

Keep trying, I'm sure the mtfs here are extremely relieved to know dick-bearers stick up for their fellow dick-bearers. You're a misogynist, of course you support their garbage.

8544375
You're the troll from that other thread.
Just hide and ignore, everyone.

>>8544394

>also, did you just assume my gender?

/pol/ and twitter Kekfuck spotted, but since you're on the mtf side, that dumbass femboy will ignore this. lol! Lying men, everywhere.

Satire is meant to make a point. I get your point, I'm a "hypocrite" because I'm more of a man than mtfs. I despair that I have to explain your joke to you.

>>8544375
>I don't hate
He's an AGP who transitioned after half a lifetime of being a bully. He was an entitled man who took what he want from those weaker than him. I haven't done the same thing and my life hasn't taken the same trajectory. At the least don't hold hypocrites like him and Aoife up as heroes.
>You're just lying
Don't you see how you talk like them?
>I see you're really putting the work in
I'm saying it might have been easier, safer and lead to a chance to not stand out. Don't you see how it becomes difficult to stand out all your life.
>here's an example of
It's intresting how you ignored my points in >>8544333

>>8544405
it's an interesting question, though. I'm the safari poster, but I haven't said I'm male or mtf. Why is it you assume that?

>>8544411

Aoife isn't even on the GC side anymore. Keep up.

>He's an AGP who transitioned after half a lifetime of being a bully. He was an entitled man who took what he want from those weaker than him.

Proof please!

>Don't you see how you talk like them?

Nope. Do you go to /pol/ ever?

>I'm saying it might have been easier, safer and lead to a chance to not stand out. Don't you see how it becomes difficult to stand out all your life.

Because it's easier to push women around and sexually harass lesbians to like dick.

Women like >>8539812 make it so much easier too.

>It's intresting how you ignored my points in

Because your points are disingenuous. As I cited, people say radfems are men based on behavior. And clothes.

>>8544418

Ftms don't defend mtfs on this site as often as males do.

Women usually practice the standard >girl here announcement.

Men particularly enjoy calling feminists men.

>>8544427
>Aoife isn't even on the GC side anymore
Because he got caught with that teenager. If he hadn't you'd be defending still. And how again can't you pick the middle age alpha male AGP thing.
>Because it's easier
None of that has anything to do with me, it would be easier to go a little further and stay in the female niche rather than spend the rest of your life in some weird undergrown effeminate faggot boy thing niche.
>points are
I'm talking about my body only. I don't care about clothes or gender things. But I could either pick between masculinizing it and making it more like adult men. I can't do that. But the status quo is miserable and failing. If I weren't getting sick, would it just be easier to fully medically transition.

>>8544430
Look, I know nothing I say is going to change your mind about trans women. I mean, you came here just to fight. But I just want to point out how none of those things are hard and fast rules (and also, for the third time, that I "called you a man" to reflect your level of discourse). You're essentially arguing that men act a certain way and women act a certain way, and those associations are absolute, which sounds like one of the most gender-upholding arguments I've ever heard. Forcing trans women to give up their identities doesn't undo or tear down gender. The whole premise is flawed, you can't tear down a category system while excluding members of a category.

I don't deny that there are creepy MTFs who call lesbians transphobic for not wanting dick, or think talking about women's healthcare is exclusionary. And you should fight against those behaviors! TERFs don't, though. You fight against MTFs as a *class* based on something they can't control, do anything possible to denounce their identities, make them question their right to exist, and shame the women who do choose to recognize them. Pardon my French, but I think that's royally fucked.

>>8544462

>Because he got caught with that teenager. If he hadn't you'd be defending still.

Wtf are you even talking about? Proof, please.

>>8544464
Aoife? Just look up your own GC blogs. They said he tried to abuse an FtM he manipulated into detransition.

>>8544463

>You're essentially arguing that men act a certain way and women act a certain way

No. I'm saying dicks aren't female. I'm saying that even surgery doesn't make it a vagina. I'm saying brain sex has no real world revelance. I'm saying I'm opposed to redefining what female and women means to accommodate trans people's whims.

>I don't deny that there are creepy MTFs who call lesbians transphobic for not wanting dick, or think talking about women's healthcare is exclusionary.

But when they start asserting themselves as women, they eventually get to that point, to varying degrees.

>And you should fight against those behaviors! TERFs don't, though.

We do.

>You fight against MTFs as a *class* based on something they can't control, do anything possible to denounce their identities, make them question their right to exist, and shame the women who do choose to recognize them. Pardon my French, but I think that's royally fucked.

Because you DON'T understand feminism. You don't understand identity politics. The appeal to authority of identity is massive in feminism. "A woman said this! It's true!" You don't understand how mtfs leverage "but I'm a woman now!" to get what they want. It ALL goes back to their assertion of identity, their statements of "you have to be open to dick" REST on "because it's a woman's dick, because I'm a woman." So does their demand that gender is real, but sex isn't. That abortion isn't a women's issue, because "trans women can't get pregnant, so it's not inclusive" or "trans men can, so it's a men's issue." THAT is what is going on.

You think I'm trying to tear down "gender"? What does gender mean in this context? I'll remind you I'm not a radfem, and I'll suggest that MAYBE you're arguing with a stereotype of a "TERF" in your fucking mind, not me.

And for the record, do you know how many men defend their mistreatment of women in a sexual sense by saying "it's beyond my control"? Your arguments are suspicious.

>>8544470

Ok? So it's a bad thing GC booted Aoife? What is your point?

>>8544496
No, it's good. But you were questioning if he did that stuff, your own naratives say he did.

Why do you ignore everything I say? Can't you be honest?

>>8544499

Because they're not my narratives. I have never seen Yardley accused of anything, and she was featured on Feminist Current, and I think I would have read about it.

Aoife left a long time ago. I didn't hear about it in the context of sexual harassment, just that she went over to Cristan Williams and recanted. So I'm sorry, but I didn't know.

>>8544489
I dont want anyone to be open to my dick. You have such a low opinion of cis women and transbians thinking that a transbian cam say whatever and cis women will always believe it. Please stop trying to hurt me. I never did anything to you and I never will.

>>8544509

What you do personally does not change what other people do, even if you personally worked against them.

But, since you're basically calling me a liar, enjoy: http://thecottongaslight.tumblr.com/

>I never did anything to you and I never will.

Yeah, redefining what woman means "didn't do anything to me" or any other woman.

>>8539189
Don't listen to TERFs
They're just reactionaries trying to shit on your bodily autonomy because other people (not trans women) try to shit on the bodily autonomy of women. It's misplaced anger.

They're also going to abolish gender by abolishing it. If this doesn't make sense, note that no argument I've ever heard from one does.

If your flavor of x movement is about shitting on other marginalized people to elevate yourself it's time to re-evaluate your views and self-crit.

>>8544505
>and she was featured on Feminist Current
And Aoife was friends with Murphy and wrote in the apostate blog till getting caught. People can get duped.

And like I told you, I don't care about clothes. I'm talking about my body. You don't realize that you can't really be in between. Even if you wear boy clothes and have short hair, you still seem super weird. That makes people angry. Unless they think I'm a kid, and I can't live my life like that forever.

>>8544512
>But, since you're basically calling me a liar, enjoy: http://thecottongaslight.tumblr.com/
Sockpuppets.

>>8539385
"not what gaslighting means"

It's not like TERFs know what it means either, considering they toss it onto literally every criticism they can't argue against.

It's also not gaslighting if you actually do need mental help, which you do if you're doxxing and outing underage trans kids. A TERF pastime.

>>8539189
"male privilege", like "white privilege", is in how you're treated
if you pass then you don't have it
if you don't, well I guess you can see it as a silver lining, but realistically if you don't pass people are going to treat you like a curiosity or a touchy subject at best

>>8544519

It's pretty funny that mtfs take lesbophobia so lightly and in another breath pretend they experience all the same bigotry women do. More, even!

>>8544517

Ok, post the proof that Yardley sexually harassed someone.

>>8544520
>if you're doxxing and outing underage trans kids. A TERF pastime.

Happened... twice? Three times? One said he'd rape Brennan's kids. Another posted saying "fetch me a terf" with a knife. The third was accused of sexually harassing girls.

Women will defend themselves. Good on them.

>>8539306
>all these responses over bait about slitting wrists
if you were serious and not a newfag you'd already know better methods

>>8544535
My neck, it's carotid. But I would need to practice on it's arm muscle because the carotid is protected by muscle. It's the least bad and cleanest way. Would you suggest guns? Those fail most of the time and are horrific. I reaseached this well.

There's also chlorofom and hydroflouric acid but both are bad probably. Do you have better ideas?

>>8544535
We get a lot of newfags here

t. youngfag

>>8544528
You're right, MtFs aren't at any risk for discrimination or having their heads bashed in for walking down the street, or getting raped and murdered by disgusting chasers! They totally have male privilege! They'll never understand what REAL oppression is like!

>>8544534
Accused=/=did

I see far more threats of violence towards MtFs from TERFs than anyone else. I see more doxxing of MtFs that /haven't/ done anything from TERFs than /almost/ anyone else.

You don't understand a damn thing.

>>8544543
I also tried getting ketamine but it's restricted so i could'nt

I like that TERFs are white 90% of the time and get caught saying racist shit. The other 10% just have cultural hangups but are also into Feminism.

You aren't Feminists, you're angry conservatives who go "but what about reeaaaal women" so you can go "hahahahaha take that liberals!" and then cry because you aren't accepted in any actually good spaces that organize anything remotely of value.

You're a dead movement and you're being left behind for a reason. Give it up.

>>8544489
>brain sex has no real world relevance
Sorry, what? A basic tenet of neuroscience is that form reflects function, and the way people conduct themselves is pretty relevant to the real world. Even if you disregard that, there's hormonal effects, and many MtFs and FtMs alike have elaborated on those.

>redefining what female and women means
What they mean is a feminist concept in the first place, isn't it? Female = sex, woman = gender. Trans women are not female, but they are women.

>You don't understand identity politics
And I don't fucking want to, the whole concept is beyond the pale and results in endless infighting over who's more oppressed than who when coalition politics would be far more effective.

> tearing down gender
Okay, maybe I did assume you're a radfem, because they're who I'm used to debating this stuff with. I'm sorry if that was incorrect.

> "it's beyond my control"
Of course I do, and it's a bullshit response when they say it. It's not beyond their control, same as it's not beyond an MtF's control to not guilt lesbians into fucking them because they have a female penis. But at the same time, assuming
>they eventually get to that point
is wrong and reveals your true prejudices. You might as well say "when Jews start asserting themselves as Jewish, they eventually start hoarding money, to various degrees". (of course, we're on 4chan, so...I bet some ppl agree)

If this website was shutdown I would seriously be happy.
You can't make a dysfunctional toxic shithole not-toxic. Human trash keeps trying to abuse and victimize. Victims keep coming back for more as they always do. Enablers not doing anything as their suicidal friends keep coming back for more. Fuck this place.

>>8544565
/thread

>>8544556

>is wrong and reveals your true prejudices

Point 1: It's not wrong. There is sometimes a little nuance, but generally if you abstract womanhood from femaleness (which you do >Trans women are not female, but they are women.) you get to the point where questions like "then what is misogyny? What should feminism focus on? Who gets to be on a sports team? What ARE women's issues? What is lesbian sexuality? What about when men say women are stupid because of female brains? Is that not misogyny?" and so on.

I've seen trans people say 1 in 3 people get abortions, not 1 in 3 women, just to be inclusive. Is that really accurate?

Anyway, bringing up the Jews? C'mon, /pol/, go without for ONE thread.

Point 2: Everybody thinks women like me are prejudiced against men already. I don't care if that's what they think. I can say a million things and they choose not to hear.

>A basic tenet of neuroscience is that form reflects function, and the way people conduct themselves is pretty relevant to the real world

I think you need to reread those studies.

But anyway, nobody gets their brain sex tested to access transition. It has no real world relevance. Genitalia, however, does.

>What they mean is a feminist concept in the first place, isn't it? Female = sex, woman = gender. Trans women are not female, but they are women.

Which is basically conceding the point that trans women are reifying gender.

But iirc that's a concept that arose after trans feminism gained momentum.

>And I don't fucking want to, the whole concept is beyond the pale and results in endless infighting over who's more oppressed than who when coalition politics would be far more effective.

Are you going to the bat for women? Or just mtfs? If you don't understand these politics, maybe you should remove yourself from the discussion.

> same as it's not beyond an MtF's control to not guilt lesbians into fucking them because they have a female penis

And are you going to argue against them? Do you?

>>8544556

also:

>female penis

Not a thing. Ever.

>Reminder to hide and ignore terf trolls

>>8544618
>Second reminder to hide and ignore terf trolls

>>8544596
>Trans women are not female
They are if they medically transition

>>8539189
Stop listening to TERFs. Give it 6 months, and then ask yourself three questions:

1) am i happier?

2) when i listened to TERFs, did i ever convince anyone to be an ally to trans people once ever?

3) why am i drawn back to people who hate me, and why do i always date abusers.

>>8544161
I don't want to see their dicks because dicks are gross. I would also request a cis woman with a grotesque birth deformity or morbid obesity to use the bathroom stalls, because that's gross. If there's something gross or otherwise socially unacceptable about your body, be polite and don't needlessly expose other people to it.

File: suicide.png (1MB, 1340x2808px)

1MB, 1340x2808px

>>8544543
>>8544549
I am NOT advocating that you commit suicide, but if you're really set and determined to, at least don't be silly about it.

t. suicidal anon

>>8544821
not op but thank you for this. TERFs are getting inside my head. Maybe I should stay away from Internet LGBT stuff in general for a while

>>8539189
>listening to insane TERFs and feeling like shit
That’s where you fucked up, sis.

File: queermax.jpg (81KB, 519x845px)

81KB, 519x845px

>>8544821
This.

I am a trans. I have a cis gf but still fell for the meme that she is just hug boxing me, I went downtown and almost immeidately I had another woman (who has a bf) gravitate to me, and flirt pretty hard (she was cute too!)

I had almost given in and believed the "transwomen are unloveable degenerates" but a single night out has already shown me how fucking flawed the internet /4chan TERF logic is.

Don't let other people control your life. Go be a fucking woman. It is good you are worried about not hurting other women. Keep that in mind and do the best you can to live as a stereotype fitting (and slightly breaking) woman who lives within the same systems cis women have had to. Try and help them break down those barriers but let them lead the charge. Cis women need to respect transwomen's issues but transwomen also need to respect that cis women's issues are real and they need to champion them themselves, what we can do is support them!

>>8544844
Your monoxide idea won't work

ok, mild TERF here

there are a lot of absolutely disgusting predatory hon trannies here, but if you're this worried about declawing yourself, being safe, you're probably ok. good transwomen exist; they will never ever be actual women since womanhood is something forced upon people with vaginas all over the world and we don't really get a choice in the matter, but adopting it to some extent and venturing about in the world women live in is perfectly well if you're not posing yourself as an authority. you're a quiet, curious neophyte, and that's ok.

don't do the obvious dick-whipping thing and don't assume that just because people call you she that they see you as an actual woman, but- you're ok. just go out, be yourself, and live. so long as you don't want to hurt anybody or fetishize "the grrrrrlzzz experience teehee" (i know you're not, obviously) you're far better than most straight men to start with

>>8545218
>mild TERF
?

>>8545218
I need to be an actual woman to survive, and a lot of people see me as an actual woman because they don't know about my problem, but your other stuff kind of makes sense.... Thank you.

>>8545226
why do you need to be "an actual woman"?

>>8545225
to clarify: i would be comfortable hanging around an mtf, gendering them correctly, and helping them with female socialization stuff- i've already done so before. i have quite a history with gender struggles myself (the ol' "i don't feel like a girl, i hate being treated like the cute female i am, it disgusts me, and i'm sterile anyway, i'm totally agender that makes seeeense!" with a side of untreated trauma, a classique) so i'm pretty much deadset on the fact that woman = female reproductive system and the mountains of shit that come with it. still, transwomen are pretty ok sometimes, even if i am fairly certain most of them stem from untreated traumas and hangups about sex. i have a lot of pity for them and they're always welcome in my home so long as they don't insist i call them a biological female or whatever.

>>8545226
you probably shouldn't thank me; the way i see things can certainly be construed as cruel. no matter what you are, you're clearly a very thoughtful and kind person, even if that does lead you to a lot of suffering. most kindness does, really.

i hope you go on living. there is so much beauty this world can offer, beauty women and affiliates of them can hold. your heart is clearly just as big as a born woman can be. no matter what, i hope you find your peace.

>>8545247
but what does calling them female cover? pronouns? bathrooms? wanting to be legally female or be put with women instead of men when the genders are socially split?

>>8545245
Because I am a woman who has to deal with a really shitty situation. I would be okay with people recognizing that I have to put up with something really hard, but I don't talk about it because it makes them less likely to see me as a real woman. If being trans were treated more like other problems that women can have, I would be way cooler with being seen that way. But it's not, and it might never be. So I have to hide it from other people a lot of the time.

>>8539965
(((but but mentally ill men are the most dangerous people)))

>>8545270
>Because I am a woman
in what way?

>>8544712
ahhahhhaahha lmao dude

>>8540147
i told her not to do it and apologised, and cara is completely uninvolved in this
though i had to block her again because being around her fucks my head up too bad

>>8545290
>i told her not to do it and apologised
apologized for what?

why dd you tell her to in the first place?

>>8545299
>apologized for what?
for causing the pain i caused her
i'm not entirely sure what that was, because of how painful apologies are for me and how kitty is not an easy person to understand, but i clearly been involved in her experiencing some kind of extreme emotional pain and have repented for doing so
the money is not actually an important aspect, but is something she promised to do if she was going to kill herself, so me telling her not to send money is telling her not to kill herself

>>8545301
what makes you the cause of her pain?

>because of how painful apologies are for me
why?

>>8545225
>mild
>radical feminist
pick one

The only answer is suicide. Even by existing we're hurting cis women.

>>8545247
>i have quite a history with gender struggles myself
o lawl what a surprise
the bigoted toxic transphobic terf is mentally ill

>(the ol' "i don't feel like a girl, i hate being treated like the cute female i am, it disgusts me, and i'm sterile anyway, i'm totally agender that makes seeeense!" with a side of untreated trauma, a classique) so i'm pretty much deadset on
making other people as miserable as you, and abusing them yourself to externalize all the toxicity and repressed anger you have within you
Fuck off.

>>8545311
You're only saying that because you believe the opinions of the very most masculine women who, due to their own insecurities and worthlessness, invade trans spaces (very predatory!) with the sole purpose of hurting you
Go out and meet real IRL women, they're not like this by a mile
Go to an animal shelter and volunteer there, I dunno. You'll meet great people.

>>8545329
That's really not true at all. I've formulated my opinions based on how I was treated by IRL women.

>>8545346
So they're the ones who hurt you, you didn't hurt them. Avoid the emotional vampires who want to make you feel the way they do.
You have the undisputed right, like everyone, to have proper friends who enjoy you being there;
Do you live in a blue city? If so there are plenty of people around you who'll treat you like a proper human, you just have to look for them.

>>8545346
This. I've never even met a TERF irl but most people just don't want me to exist. That's just the way things are.

>>8545384
seconding, as a person who wishes you didn't

>>8545370
Apparently my very existence is so vile and loathsome that I deserve to be hurt. I stopped disputing it a long time ago. Almost every other MtF I've known has been through the same treatment. Just for the crime of being born male. I never asked to be born. If I could I'd go back in time and stop my conception.

It kind of just makes sense that people like us shouldn't be alive. The kindest thing for us to do is leave this life quietly with dignity so others can be happier without us taking up space.

I've been attacked for being trans in blue and very liberal cities much more than in redneck capitals. And..every single time.. It's been a cis woman doing it.

>>8545442
>It's been a cis woman doing it
Conceptualizing them as "cis women" is a mistake. The majority of people, including women, are significantly dysfunctional. They aren't speaking as "oracles of womenly truths" but as flawed and failed human beings.
"Masculine protest and misandry" describes them objectively. >>8545247 is one manifestation of that. They had a traumatic childhood, and feel tremendous angst about their own femininity that they take out on others. They don't take this out on bodybuilders or military veterans, but on people they know are easy prey, which includes trans women.

"Masculine protest" means these women weren't loved by their dysfunctional parents, and they interpreted that as "women aren't worthy of love"; hence they begin to unconsciously conceptualize themselves as boys all the while being resentful of men for being "more lovable" than they deem themselves. This explains both why they're so masculinized/unempathic (yelling at people when they feel offended, being so ferocious in their rhetoric and sometimes actions) and why they're so resentful towards anything they see as male.
They're unaware of how masculinized their personalities are, because they repress it (since they're ashamed of being ashamed of being women), so they project their own masculinity onto you.

I think it's obvious how trans women fit into this as a target or their hatred.

They need therapy just the same way you do.

>>8545498
It's ridiculous and false to say that all women that dislike MtFs or males as a whole are abused and dysfunctional and need therapy.

>>8545564
Well, all women do dislike MtFs on some level, because what they see is a revolting distorted reflection of themselves

>>8545570
That's correct, but it doesn't make them abnormal, or worthy or hate, or pity.

>>8545579
>doesn't make them abnormal
wew lad
trannies are the definition of abnormal

>>8545564
>It's ridiculous and false to say that all women that dislike MtFs or males as a whole are abused and dysfunctional and need therapy.
Your feeling smarter and more knowledgeable than Adler about psychology is laughable. >>8545570 falls in the same category.

Feelings are just manifestation of unconscious impulses. If they feel so strongly, negatively, about MTFs, there are unconscious reasons for that, which I just analyzed for you.

>>8545579
>That's correct, but it doesn't make them abnormal, or worthy or hate, or pity.
That you think my objective and dispassionate description of them is "hateful" shows you understood nothing I said. It makes them dysfunctional, and in need of psychotherapy. I made no value judgments on them.
The fact that you also don't apply this same reasoning to yourself shows how blind and irrational your self-hatred is.

>>8545584
I guess I should have said women who hate trannies aren't abnormal. Trannies are abnormal, yes.

i can understand the fear TERFs have of rapey straight males, but as one that isnt.. what are they going to do exactly?

i wont go into any spaces for women, im satisfied with my relationship and dont want to chase women, nor would i if i wasnt in a relationship, theyll never even notice me. So like every poltard they can sit there encouraging me to kms, but nobody says shit IRL and everyone i meet just wants to get on about their day like I do.

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>>8545442
>The kindest thing for us to do is leave this life quietly with dignity so others can be happier without us taking up space.

This is one thing that gets to me. All the talk about trans women taking up space just like men. It's why I've stopped talking altogether. It's better to be demure and harmless, seen and not heard. So that cis women aren't threatened. I'm still self-harming over an incident several months ago when I was reprimanded by cis women for leaving my stuff around the apartment, and using their sink areas. Only men are contextualized as "gross" in that way, so I know they were clocking me, even if they never said anything about it.

>>8545845
>an incident several months ago when I was reprimanded by cis women for leaving my stuff around the apartment, and using their sink areas.
What exactly happened?

>Only men are contextualized as "gross" in that way,
What do you mean?

>>8545845
I can relate to that a little too well. I wish I could be a ghost or something sometimes. However there really is no way to stop being a blight on the lives of others without dying so our only selfless, altruistic option is suicide.

>>8545442
What did the cis women who attacked you say?

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>>8545883
I was there at my (former) friend's apartment for winter break, she had two roommates, but one of them was gone for winter break as well. The one who was still there was short and Asian, and straight, so I tried to stay out of her way so that she didn't think of me as a white tranny. Stay out of sight as much as possible. But I accidentally used her hand towel to dry off my face a few times, because I thought it was my friend's towel or something. I wash my face a lot, and I also put on makeup and take off makeup a lot. So she left a passive-aggressive note for my friend, telling her to tell me not to use her towel again. And she kept sending notes even after I stopped using it.

The mirror at that sink area had really bright lightbulbs along the top of it, so it made my face look really bad. I didn't like looking at a tranny's face every day, so I would also go to the other sink area, the one that belonged to the roommate who wasn't there. The lighting over there was softer and more forgiving, so I could do all my bathroom stuff in peace. My friend told me not to use it while the other roommate wasn't there, I guess I didn't take her seriously enough....

One night I came back to the apartment really late because I had tried to go to a rave but didn't have enough money, and I had been wandering around the city kind of forlorn. I accidentally left my bra on the couch or an armchair, and didn't wake up early enough to fix it. So the other roommate unexpectedly came back home, for New Year's or something, and I could hear her saying it was "really gross" for my bra to be out. I think she also complained about the sink area, because my blow dryer might have still been there or something. I had to leave the apartment and stay at a bar with strangers that night, after I heard her call me "gross". I can't be around people who think of me as a man, especially not cis women.

I never spoke to my friend again.

>>8545845
>Only men are contextualized as "gross"
You're in denial if you can't see how gross and messy cis girls can be.
You're imagining them thinking the worst things about you but you're not in their heads.

People don't see you as a burden because you're bad but because you're self-hating and suicidal, and that neurosis shines through.
Therapy won't make you hate yourself less, it'll make you less of a burden and that's what will reduce your self-hatred.

>>8545925
>I never spoke to my friend again.
What did she think happened to you, if you just left and never saw her again?

>>8545933
I did text some bad things to her, she probably thinks I hate her. She lives in Denver and I live far away, so it's not like she expects to see me around. I would prefer if she hates me now, and takes a bad message about trans women from what happened with me, so that she never makes the same mistake of bringing another tranny into her life. It's better for people to hate and forget about me, than to keep thinking about me and wondering for a long time.

>>8545945
>I did text some bad things to her
What? Why?

>and takes a bad message about trans women from what happened with me, so that she never makes the same mistake of bringing another tranny into her life.
But another trans women might be really helped by being treated the same way? The only mistake was the roommates.

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Wow...
I used to feel pretty depressed about being gay, but this thread helped me realise how lucky I am to not be attracted to women. Thank you everyone <3

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>>8545954
>What? Why?

At that time, I was going crazy and I thought she was part of a conspiracy to make me feel more like a man. Like how she would cook food for me and encourage me to play video games and watch anime with her, and whenever I tried to cook, she would complain in some way. And I thought she was only attracted to me because she was a chaser, because she would talk about certain aspects of my body that I didn't like. She would also complain about me going out to bars and getting male attention, which was the only way for me to feel more like a woman at that time.

It's a delicate balance. On the one hand, I don't want to be so active as to feel aggressive, but on the other hand, if I'm forcing a cis woman to make food for me while I sit around playing games, I just feel like I'm taking up space and emotional labor in a different way. That's why the hospital feels better for me. Those people are at least paid to take care of men AND women who are sick.

>But another trans women might be really helped by being treated the same way? The only mistake was the roommates.

Maybe. Maybe that trans woman will be a better person than me, so she'll deserve it.

>>8546335
The hospital?

>Maybe that trans woman will be a better person than me, so she'll deserve it.
Why do you think you don't? All you did was use the wrong sink and pick up somebody else's towel by mistake.

>>8539189
If you have to ask these things then you're likely to always be a danger to yourself and other people. It's best to talk to a doctor if you genuinely feel there's a possibility you're going to hurt someone.

>>8539189
If another person you respect told you everything you just told us, how would you feel towards them? How would you advise them?

>>8546693
I would probably feel really bad... Like someone I really care about is hurting herself and she's talking about maybe not even making it, when all of us need to make it, and I don't want to see anyone fall behind.... Especially not my friend.

I wonder what it's like to be one of my friends.... Probably kinda scary...

>>8547937
>I wonder what it's like to be one of my friends.... Probably kinda scary...
Yes. Don't confuse not knowing what to do, or being overwhelmed and in denial ("she'll be fine"), with being uncaring.

>>8539189
Your very existence is transitively raping women according to some terfs, you literally can't win.

>>8544547
Terfs even harass cis women for not agreeing with them and one of their leaders got banned from twitter for harassing children for daring to not fit their agenda.

>>8548093
>and one of their leaders got banned from twitter
kek, who?

>>8545218
>but- you're ok. just go out, be yourself, and live.
>or fetishize "the grrrrrlzzz experience teehee"
tl;dr live your live however you want as long as it's not a way that triggers me.

>you're far better than most straight men to start with
ps muh misandry

>>8539189
Don't cuck yourself.

>>8551331
you think fetishizing the girl experience is alright?
Please elaborate as to why it undermines the importance of the label "women" for both cis and trans people.

>>8545498
ahhhahahhhahahhhaha lmao m8 u wrong

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>>8539209
But revenge is best served cold. Living people are warm, dead people are cold. Killing is the best revenge

>>8547937
>I wonder what it's like to be one of my friends.... Probably kinda scary...
you don't know the half of it

>>8556509
???

>>8556509
Trent please drop some truths over here >>8556589

>>8556609
I explicitly asked Branchardanons not to derail the thread, thnx but no thnx

>>8545042
you pass though
it's different if you pass or at least look attractive

>>8545301
Okay, am I the only one here wondering who the heck all these people are?

>>8542443
That's a relief because I often feel like the random woman I meet on the street is going to be a TERF

>>8558314
The problem with TERFs is that they make a lot of noise, and the social conservatives like to use them to further their own hateful agendas. They seem to be more influential and numerous than they really are.

>>8558381
Terfs are social conservatives, idiot.