How true is "passing privilege"?

>>8535237
"privilege" is just a term that losers use to justify their envy.

"passing privilege" does exist, if you want to call it that, but the phenomenon is far more general than the term "passing privilege" implies

humans instinctively value attractiveness

more attractive humans are, on average, treated more favorably in society than less attractive ones, all else equal

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1518099

passing transfolk are attractive transfolk, and so those who pass get much better treatment in general than non-passing transfolk

>>8535323

more evidence:

http://www.businessinsider.com/studies-show-the-advantages-of-being-beautiful-2013-6

so looks really do matter, as much as some of us may wish they didn't

that doesn't make it okay to be bitter at attractive people or passing transfolk, though

>>8535247
But if there's something to be envious of...

>>8535323
yeah, a lot of what people here call "passing" is conflated with attractiveness. I've seen cis women who don't pass. not to mention /passgen/ doesn't even take into account voice or emotional presence

it's also why people say hon so much desu

>>8535783

yes, it's just general attractiveness privilege

and one can argue that there shouldn't be any such thing as attractiveness privilege, but the fact of the matter is that it does exist because humanity intrinsically values attractiveness

so the best you can do for yourself is, rather than tearing attractive people down and getting spiteful and insecure, is make yourself as attractive as possible within your circumstances

exercise, eat right, get a decent haircut, try to minimize wrinkles and skin blemishes if possible, wear sunscreen, etc.

and this applies to men, women, mtfs, ftms, pretty much everyone

t. incredibly plain-looking male who tries to make due with what he has

>>8535970
>incredibly plain-looking male who tries to make due with what he has
Considered transition?

>>8535237
Passing privilege only works until someone knows you're trans. Passing MtF's do not have to worry about any anti-trans laws (bathrooms, workplace, etc) until they're outed. That's pretty much it. They don't get to live an amazing life the average person can't achieve.

>>8537470
not true
even outed passing trans get treated better than hons

>>8536904

Why? I'm not seeing the connection.

>>8537474

>even outed passing trans get treated better than hons

But they still probably get treated worse after they've been outed. These claims don't contradict each other.

vicious circle of denying trans youth hormones and general gatekeeping. hormones late increases chance of not passing, public thinks hons are the only transgender people and try to block the rest from 'disfiguring themselves'.

>>8537491
>trannies are treated differently then Cis women
Stop the presses.

>>8537502

Nowhere did I claim that what I was saying is completely new or revelatory. No need to be condescending.

>>8535237
It's not. It's wrong. It's like the wrongest imaginable word to use. It's just an outrageous distraction from keeping all together focussed like a laser on checking white privilge. Sure, of course, it's absolutely fucking wonderful to imagine what if some people were not considered white, and it is profoundly moral for white minorities to engage in solidarity with non whites, but thinking could have that instead of white privilige just amount to being too fucking stupid to consider that race is nothing but a social contruct! NEVER say "passinge privilege"!

>>8537474
Once they're outed they're treated like sex dolls. I wouldn't call that a privilege

>>8537586
while hons dont even get to be that

>>8537588

What's your point?

>>8537663
Being a melodramatic bitch because chads won't use him for his man pussy.

>>8535970
>and one can argue that there shouldn't be any such thing as attractiveness privilege, but the fact of the matter is that it does exist because humanity intrinsically values attractiveness

Nah, one really can't argue that attractiveness privilege shouldn't exist. As you state, attractiveness is a positive trait selected for by biological pressures. Now, what is attractive varies from culture to culture and from person to person, but there are still general measures of attractiveness that don't vary much between cultures. Symmetrical features, strong bone structure, non-blotchy complexion, and strong musculature with low body fat are all pretty universally recognized as attractive. And that's because all of those features indicate good genes and good health, something everyone looks for, even subconciously, in a mate. No one wants to fuck the guy or girl with the weak immune system, greasy, blotchy skin, and other indicators of bad genes.

Anyone who legitimately tries to argue that attractive people shouldn't do better and get laid more often than unattractive people are almost certainly unattractive themselves and just have envy over other people sleeping with Chad when they totally know that they deserve Chad, despite being a NEET landwhale. reeeee, etc.

>>8537678
im not a hon babe

>>8537700

I'm the same guy you're responding to, but I don't know if I necessarily agree with you here.

>As you state, attractiveness is a positive trait selected for by biological pressures.

That is correct. But do remember that attractiveness can be artificially enhanced via makeup and surgery and all sorts of other methods.

Imagine you have an ugly set of twins, and one twin decides to go get plastic surgery and instantaneously becomes more attractive than the remaining ugly twin. Is the twin who was surgically modified to be attractive now all of a sudden a better person than the other twin? I wouldn't think so.

Will humanity now perceive the more attractive twin to be a better person, regardless of whether their attractiveness is natural or artificial? Yes, humanity will, because humanity is instinct-driven and instinct is imperfect and superficial.

>>8537704

You sure seem to spend a lot of time thinking about "hons".

>>8537774
I don't. I wrote two sentences, how does that make me focussed on hons

>>8537774
If one twin made the effort to look prettier, is that not demonstrably more desirable than the twin who was too lazy/unwilling to change anything?

If one twin was able to do it, the other was also able to. The fact that they didn't shows they lack drive, ambition, intelligence, or perhaps simply insecurity. You could argue that having insecurity is a bad thing, but those who are insecure are generally more successful than those who are happy where they are, so in that sense, it's still a positive trait.

If someone is born attractive, then they are fundamentally someone good to mate with. If they are willing to change themselves from ugly to attractive, then their genes may be less than ideal, but they will still probably be better than someone unwilling to make the change.

No matter what, more attractive=better.

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>>8537946
>they are identical!
>why aren't they identical?

why does one have drive while the other doesn't if they both have the same potential?

maybe they don't have the same potential.
maybe they aren't identical.

>attractive=better
protip: superficial=worse

>>8537956
>maybe they don't have the same potential.
>maybe they aren't identical.
that is not what the comparison implied retard. cmon dude give us a break. this isnt hard

>>8537580
Wow, you got some shit to deal with because we were talking about trannies, not general persecution. That, and your post was hard to read. It was like you skipped words every sentence.

>>8537946

Same guy again.

What if one twin is a realist who understands the instinctive importance of attractiveness, and the other is an idealist who recognizes that attractiveness is important but doesn't wish to enable human shallowness? Is the idealistic twin a lesser person?

Let's remove agency from the equation altogether. Imagine a set of equally attractive identical twins, one of whom is suddenly disfigured (but not in any sense disabled or impaired) in a freak accident that had absolutely nothing to do with their own behavior.

Is the disfigured twin now a lesser person (for any other reason than reduced attractiveness)?

>If someone is born attractive, then they are fundamentally someone good to mate with.

Natural attractiveness may be a solid indicator of biological fitness, but it can't be relied upon alone. There are certainly many people out there who would be awful as mates despite being attractive.

>>8538019
>Is the idealistic twin a lesser person?
he is a retard for passing up on privilege for moral beliefs, so yes. would avoid

>>8538026

So anyone who can afford cosmetic surgery but opts against it is a retard?

>>8538030
>cosmetic surgery fixes uggos
think again

also
>spending 20k+ for privilege is worth it

>>8538019
I should say that this >>8537968
and this>>8538026
are not me, but another anon.

In response to your point, you're right of course that in a real-world situation, other factors apply. There are handsome jocks out there in the world who are awful people more plain people who are genuinely nice and kind. Heck, I personally love plainer men myself, because they're less self-centered. If I am focused on making my partner happy, I sure as shit hope they're affording the same courtesy for me.

However, at the end of the day, you can't talk real-world in situations like this. There are too many variables to have a reasonable discussion. That's what privilege discussions usually have as a problem: they just by nature have to be removed from real world situations, where counterexamples exist. Privilege inherently exists in a world of stereotypes, and the real world is usually anything but stereotypical.

For the sake of discussion, you have to assume that people are similar, even though really, they aren't.

>>8538030
cutting yourself is the way to mental health!

>>8538081

I think we agree on just about everything, except maybe the extent to which attractiveness should be pursued.

I would never think less of a person for opting not to get plastic surgery even despite knowing it would enhance their social reception.

At the same time, I wouldn't think less of a person who used makeup to achieve a more desirable look.

And I would look up to a person who chose natural health-enhacing methods like exercise/dieting/etc. to elevate their own attractiveness, because those choices would literally be making them more biologically fit.

>>8537998
WTF? We're talking about "passing privilige". I talked about passing privilige. It's not general, it's only applicable to an actually small number of unimportant people. You know, those that pass as white?

>>8538529
Huh. I thought you meant passing as male or female for a transgender, not concerning race. I don't really think about race much unless I think someone might try to pull the race card against me or I'm using it for humor.

>>8539066
>I thought you meant passing as male or female for a transgender
Pretty sure that's what OP was about, from the picture.

>>8542025
Hey, why do they have to be transgendered? Why shouldn't all traps be acknowledged as having passing privilege?

>>8543196
Transgender or trans is an umbrella term for transsexuals, traps, crossdressers, drag queens, etc.

>>8538529
>You know, those that pass as white?
Right because we're on the board for race discussion...

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>>8535237
about as real as any characteristic privilege. which is to say not at all.

>>8535237

i mean if you 'pass' that means no one is questioning your gender, so they just treat you like an actual girl instead of trans. its a bit of a privilege but it doesnt mean anything

>>8546163
>female privilege doesn't exist

>>8535247

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>>8546180
correct

>>8546180
t. feminism

>>8535237
While I think passing helps, I think that being attractive in general is more important.

I've met a trans girl who passes quite well, but she wasn't nice to look at.

I on the other hand don't pass. I look effeminate certainly, but I would be better described as a pretty boy.

Both of us have openly admitted to being trans.

The same girls that have never had the slightest care going naked in front of me "Oh, anon you're basically a girls so it doesn't matter", suddenly started freaked out at the passing girl. They asked what bathroom she used and then glanced at each other in "that way".

>>8535237
I don't think it can be true because privilege implies that only a group of people have it and it can't otherwise be attained. In turn that also implies everyone that passes always passed. Since it's a privilege you get it by belonging to a group rather than through effort. Therefore you can't pass with effort or a make over, you're just wasting time and resources. Do people really believe that?

>>8538102
That's XENOPHOBIC! It's persecution against scarification!

>>8537491
That's not so clear. If they didn't, they'd talk about stealth privelege, but it seems they don't because, somehow it just doesn't work out...

>>8548260
Do you really believe everybody can pass?

>>8551870

I'm not sure I follow.

>>8535323
>passing transfolk are attractive transfolk

That would imply all cis people are attractive.

>>8535323
You're either cis or autistic. I can tell.

>>8551879
As much as everyone can live an economically sustainable life. Neither is simply a privilege although not everybody will achieve either goal. In both cases you could also see people that are in a favorable position and then fuck it all up.

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>>8537586
that's where you're wrong senpai

>>8552249

Let's try this: passing transfolk are attractive enough to fool the base instincts into thinking they are natural members of the gender they present as. Being conventionally attractive within the norms of the desired gender certainly helps.

>>8552252

Maybe I'm both. Maybe I'm aucistic.

You're right about this cis part, though I wonder what made you draw that conclusion.

>>8536904
lol wut? transitioning is not just because you're bored or for fashion

>>8555287
If you decided today, right now, that you wanted to walk on the moon, would you think there's a point in sending your resume to NASA?

Or would you manage your expectations and accept some dreams are never going to come true?

>>8552069
if going stealth was so great, you'd think the people in charge of checking privilege would be checking "stealth privilege" instead of "passing privilege". It's the juice prize to go for.

>>8556189
Stealth is a matter of degrees. You are never 100% stealth because of your parents, your doctors, etc.

Not passing makes you 0% stealth.

Passing makes you stealth by default and stealth to whoever you meet for as long as you choose.

Stealth is passing privilege.

>>8556193
So are they due to establish that Nordics have more white privilege than anyone else?

Are they due to establish that Guys who are perfectly averse to traps have more straight privilege?

Are they due to establish that people that never manage to get sick have more able-privilege?

>>8556223
t. retard

>>8548252
Maybe you're underestimating your passibility. On the other hand, maybe they were more familiar with you than her.

It's a real as "pretty privilege" which MTFs constantly conflate with female privilege.