Is transsexualism real?

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exactly my feels.

>>8415299
I feel stuff that would easily put me into the category of some who /tttt/ would tell to transition.
I've told a therapist and told them i wanted to start HRT without hesitation.

Despite this I'm still not sure if its the right thing because of similar points to the one above, just being depressed and in general mentally unstable. Transition is presented as a solution to any bad feeling that manifests along with feelings of not fitting into your gender/body

>>8415334
Can you go into more specifics about your feelings and troubles? How did you end up in therapy and what is leading you to feel you should have HRT?

Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564

Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395610001585

The present study does not support the dogma that MtF-TR have atypical sex dimorphism in the brain but confirms the previously reported sex differences in structural volumes, gray, and WM fractions. (Mtf transexuals haven't got the typical male brain, in easier terms)
https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/21/11/2525/275208/Sex-Dimorphism-of-the-Brain-in-Male-to-Female#3364322

Transgenderism is a biologically measurable thing, doesn't mean that their aren't people faking being trans for fetish reasons. But there is such a thing as transgender people. As for why it is a recent thing, I've had signs that I've been transgender since I could remember, but I didn't think I could transition (didn't know trans people were a thing) so my mind repressed these feelings and these memories of being transgender, that could've well happened in the past, which would explain why trans people are a new thing (even though thy probably weren't).
It's good that your asking questions though, I applaud you for that.
It took me about 3 mins on google to find those studies btw.

you really think you're the first one to consider this? it's pretty evident from the research done into transsexuality over decades that no matter what causes it, once you have it, it's not going away, regardless of other circumstances
and the only treatment that works is taking at least some steps towards transitioning
not everyone needs to go all the way

transition is poorly understood.
im taking some pills from the doc to stop feeling like shit.period.

i tried adderall, depakote, paxil, prozac, vicodin, benadryl, xanax, weed, and whatever else big pharma has cooked up

now for some dumb reason, takin hormones and blockers gave me back my life. it gave me what pills tried and failed to do. everyone in my irl sees a good change in personality and happiness, and they dont know exactly what new med i am on.

i have zero desire to wear female clothes daily, and am baffaled that a side effect of my panacea hrt regimine is that i grow boobs. but ill take it over ralox, why not have agp?

>>8415363
>>8415355
One bit I don't understand is how come swapping around a few body parts and styling yourself to look like someone from the other gender cures long term distress? I can't even begin to imagine caring at all what my body looked like and my life and mental state would be no different if I woke up tomorrow with a vagina and a pair of tits despite being a biological male. I find it hard to swallow the idea that the brain can have a biological craving for a pair of tits despite not being born with them and that this can occur in way more than one or two outlying cases.

>>8415377
evolurion. our dna knows what its supposed to work with.

>>8415373
exact same
idk why hrt makes me feel so much better but it does
i was considering suicide and decided to at least try hormones first after being agp all my life
and depression goes away just like that

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>>8415355
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564
>Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects

>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395610001585
>DTI was performed in 18 FtM transsexuals and 24 male and 19 female heterosexual controls scanned with a 3 T Trio Tim Magneton

>https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/21/11/2525/275208/Sex-Dimorphism-of-the-Brain-in-Male-to-Female#3364322
>48 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW) and 24 gynephillic male to female transsexuals (MtF-TR).


Call me when you have some statistically reliable data.

>>8415377
Your brain knows what you should look like, having a female brain and a male body is a massive difference. When something is different your brain doesn't like it. If you had a leech on your body you'd feel disgusted, frustrated and want to tear it off, I feel similar about my body when my disphoria is at it's worst. Except I can't tear it off, so this has me feeling defeated, which in turn makes me feel depressed. So when I go through dysphoria I feel depressed, disgusted, and frustrated about my body. And then as the issue isn't resolved I have to repress this feeling in life, which isn't good. This isn't some physiologists analysis of trans issues, this is just how I feel. So I can only give you anecdotal evidence for that point, sorry.

>>8415299
Yes, it's real.
Yes there are people who just don't fall into our defined binary, or fall all over it, wtf ever, and just get confused.

If you're an unsure, lost/confused teenager it's also easy to latch onto something. Especially if it's a hot topic.

>>8415397
Its rarely researched, and it's part of the social science part, your never gonna have data like you do in normal science. Call me when you have ANY data supporting your view though. Can't you? Are you just shitposting?

>>8415401
That's okay, I appreciate your answer. I don't doubt your feelings and experiences here but I am skeptical that the root cause is a brain that is biologically hardwired to be full female and not any number of other social/environmental/biological (not necessarily gender specific or hardwired) influences converging into a troubling mess.

>>8415299
It is real, but often misrepresented.

The correct part of the story you usually hear is this: Trans people experience intense dysphoria and often benefit immensely from transitioning. There are no good treatments except for transition, and this means that unless you want trans people to be miserable all their life you better support them.

The false part is the "female brains in male bodies" / "male brains in female bodies" model. This model far more accurately describes gay people (hence why gay people often are so gender nonconforming), but only a minority of trans people match it. (A substantial minority, but still, a minority.)

Instead, trans people experience a sexual orientation known as "autogynephilia" or "autoandrophilia" - attraction to being the opposite sex. Trans people are the ones with the most extreme cases of this sexual orientation (less extreme cases tend to just be crossdressers), who have it to such a degree that it causes intense pain.

>>8415413
If you look at the entire trans population I doubt it would be entirely biological too, but it looks like that it's VERY strongly biological, 100% are pretty rare in life unless it's a definition statement (e.g. a triangle has 3 sides).
You don't have to believe its 100% biological to believe in trans people though, you only have to believe it's mostly biological for transitioning to be the right thing. Maybe think of it like eating, hungry people have to eat or they starve, but you also get people that eat for fun (e.g. Cake) just because people eat for fun, it doesn't mean if they don't eat they won't starve. (Not sure how good that analogy is but I tried my best)

>>8415428
This is a Blanchard poster, this person represents what we thought about trans people in the 70s. 50 years of research into the brain means that the consensus is different now. It's like listening to Freud for physcology. It was good when it first came out, but now it's outdated. Blanchards ideas are rarely taken seriously in the outside world.

>>8415433
What I get from your analogy is that some trans people, even if they are condemned biologically to transition, still also derive some pleasure and enjoyment from the idea of gender-related things (e.g. makeup or dresses for MtFs) regardless of being trans (in the same way any person might develop an interest in a hobby like trains or books).

Is this correct? It gives me some things to ponder on anyway.

>>8415299
I'm not an expert or anything however transgenderism has been reported as early as 600 B.C.. So saying modern society causes it is pretty much disproved!

>>8415453
Yeah, with me personally although it was suicide if I didn't transition, I still enjoy making myself pretty, and just generally doing femme things.

>>8415299
Yes. Transsexuality is now thought to be a form of intersexuality.
>>8400747
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2005to2009/2006-atypical-gender-development.html
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2015to2019/2016-transsexualism.html

>>8415355
Just a note here: the Savic study you quoted (the third one) says the opposite of what you think it is saying. According to it gynephilic MTFs have largely male white matter distributions. However it is pretty much alone in that finding, with the first (later) study I posted showing the opposite. The two other links I posted likewise include many studies that show that transsexuals, regardless of orientation, have brain structures shifted toward the direction of the sex opposite to their natal one.

>>8415491
Oops sorry my bad, I just woke up when I found those studies, cheers for finding some better ones.

>>8415299
oh look, its this thread again where MUH FEELINGS > medical community

The way I see it is that all gay people have female brains in male bodies, it's just the tru trans that have certain mental obstacles that create dysphoria and the desire to transition to correct the body with mind. This is only regarding the transgenders who's sexuality and gender are linked.

I personally believe that female trans who are lesbians have more societally bound mental obstacles since their gender and sexuality are not linked. Agp trans also negate a gender and sexuality connection as it's a fetish. In my opinion, both of these types of trans who are attracted to women technically have male brains, which is why there is much difficulty in creating definite statistics for transgender studies as there are many different types of transgenders.

>>8415299
>Is transsexualism real?
It is real, but ~90% of trannies are lying, either for attention or to live life on easy mode (or at least they think so)

>>8415684
I find attention stressful and am fairly sure it will only make life harder.
Thanks anon.

>>8415653
>Male brains
Explain
>>8415491

>>8415692
If you are mainly attracted to women I believe you have a male brain regardless of your gender. This is coming from a gender and sexuality are linked point of view.

I am not in any way trying to discount the legitimacy of lesbian trannies, but I want to make it clear that their struggles with their transgenderism may be different than a trans whose sexuality and gender are linked, which is why transgenderism and dysphoria can be somewhat ambiguous in meaning. Even though there are MANY similarities among all transgenders, I believe it is significant to hone in on their differences in order to understand where the motivations to transition truly lie and when they may overlap.

>>8415745
>If you are mainly attracted to women I believe you have a male brain regardless of your gender. This is coming from a gender and sexuality are linked point of view.
You misunderstand. Those links are to studies that show that even gynephilic MTFs have feminized brains, though to a lesser degree in some ways.

>>8415334
>Transition is presented as a solution to any bad feeling that manifests along with feelings of not fitting into your gender/body
Depression and being otherwise mentally unstable can be a side effect of gender dysphoria, especially if people treat you like shit for being trans or being perceived as being different even if they don't know you're trans.
I wouldn't say transition is a solution by itself, but a necessary step in order to be able to deal with the other issues. It would be almost impossible to get rid of depression without transitioning, but transitioning gives you the space you need to work on it. It can still take years to get your mind straight.

>>8415377
>mental state would be no different if I woke up tomorrow with a vagina and a pair of tits despite being a biological male.
I strongly doubt that. Maybe the novelty of the experience wouldn't make it too bad at first, but your male gender identity would almost certainly assert itself, and you'd go bonkers if you couldn't change your body back.

You wanna know what this straight white guy thinks. I thinks it's all horseshit. The government is putting chemicals in the water supply to change the brains of new babies. Combine that with a media that normalizes it and you see that the they are behind it all. It's something to reduce brth rates in the population... course it's a small amount but it's still something.

>>8415440
>This is a Blanchard poster
This Blanchard stuff is cancer, and I'm saying that as someone who would be considered HSTS.

>>8415935
>but your male gender identity would almost certainly assert itself, and you'd go bonkers if you couldn't change your body back.
[citation needed]

Seriously trans people, what do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQWrlQY5KbM

>>8415944
Yeah I agree, would be hsts as well.

>>8415440
Thirding Blanchard being cancer, but his studies are from the very late 80s.

>>8415973
Yeah your right he's talking shit, it's not like there are people that have depression and anxiety and dysphoria because their body doesn't match their brain, right?

>>8416075
Cheers for correcting me

>>8416079
Not an argument.

>>8416033
He's a rich white twink attention whore.

I only ever think about how much better that money could've been used to help -actual- trans people, especially poor trans people.

>>8415440
>It was good when it first came out, but now it's outdated.
How so?

>>8416104
Why do you point out that he's white with so much venom?

Racist.

>>8416111
Neuroscience has advanced since then. Trans brains look dimorphically different no matter the orientation. Twin studies have shown that transsexuality has a genetic component. Natal-environmental factors are now suspected to be the chief cause.

>>8415299
>I'm currently under the impression that the phenomenon is a side effect of modern civilization
Trannies go all the way back to the dawn of civilization in Mesopotamia, my friend.

>>8416130
What does that have to do with the two-type typology though?

Brain studies have confirmed the difference between HSTS and AGP brains.

>>8416033
Im mtf, that's absolute cancer, no basis in biology, and it makes light of off the shit I have to go through. if he wants to be a fucking alien he can be an alien though, I'm not calling him his xandar / xander pronoun, but I wouldn't stop him from having alien surgery.

>>8416154
Brain studies show that, regardless of orientation, transsexuals have "feminized" brains.
>>8415491
This goes against the thesis that gynephilic transsexuals are straight men with a paraphilia that changes their gender identity. It also shows that androphilic transsexuals ARE, in fact, different from cis gay men.

The HSTS/AGP divide isn't a thing.

>>8416188
How does that contradict the typology? It doesn't predict that all 'cis' gay men and all HSTS's will have identical brains. It just says they're on the same spectrum. It doesn't say AGP's won't have different brains to cishet men.

>>8416203
The typology specifically argues against the "feminine essence narrative" - that transsexuals are somehow "women inside". The studies suggest that transsexuals do indeed have heavily feminized brains, though still closer to those of their natal sex pre-hormones. It suggests that transsexuality is a sort of intersexuality. That dysphoria is caused by the clash between the mind and the body.

Blanchard's typology suggests that "HSTSs" are extremely feminine gay men who transition because society is more accepting of them as women. Dysphoria arises from society rejecting them as men, not from any innate factor. Transitioning is a "rational choice" the gay men makes in order to better fit in and tempt men.

It suggests that AGPs are straight men who are oriented toward themselves as women due to a paraphilia which entrenches itself and transforms into a gender identity over time. Why would such straight men have feminized brains? Isn't that a "feminine essence"?

Both groups are supposedly just mentally ill men, but research gives ground to the idea that they're neurologically intersexed, not delusional. Not exactly women, mind, but not exactly men.

I honestly don't understand sexually motivated transitioners at all. You're supposed to get post-fap regret, not take titty skittles. And you see on this board, they go through purge cycles just like crossdressers. Why do it if it clearly bothers you? When I transitioned, it was instant relief. 12 years in, post-orchi and everything, I have no regrets. Cleared up all the dissonance.

>>8416267
purges and post-fap regret are just psychological. i never got the regret and i never really purged, just hid my girl clothes, and i stopped doing that in my teens. it's just feeling shame over it. once you overcome that it doesn't bother you.

>>8416267
I agree with you about transitioning being an instant relief, and it was easy enough that I only wished I had started sooner.

There do seem to be people for whom trans is an extreme form of crossdressing, and don't really have gender dysphoria, only it's not so easy to purge if you've made permanent changes to your body.

I do think there are people who genuinely have gender dysphoria, but for whatever reason, maybe something to do with being more gynephilic, they seem like they have a fetish, but they really are trans and HRT/transition can bring immediate and lasting relief.

>>8416362
I had a sissy fetish till I discovered I was trans, now the sissy fetish doesn't interest me, I'm pretty sure I used the fetish as a way of repressing so I could say to myself "I'm not trans it's just a fetish". The fetish was FAR from the first sign I was trans though.

>>8416383
>sissy fetish
How does that even work. Do you egg on Chads to beat you up for being faggy?

>>8416383
You can understand how someone else more skeptical might interpret your sissy fetish as being a environmentally induced perversion and a gateway for you going on to mistaking yourself for a girl, I'm sure.

>>8416383
That sounds like what I'm talking about, that you really are trans, and the fetish is more of a coping mechanism or the brain trying to process dysphoria.

I think the AGP label can put off people who should transition. It might be legitimate to apply it to those who are basically extreme crossdressers, but not to everyone who isn't androphilic.

>>8416409
Yeah totally, it came from repressing though, there were enough egg-spotty things before the sissy fetish to be 90% sure I was trans.
>>8416400
It was typical forced feminisation sissy fetish. Mostly I fantasied about Dom women though, which makes sense now, I wanted to be magically transformed into a woman, I didn't know what trans was at that time, I only saw triggered sjw 50 gender trans people, and porn trans people, neither of which made me realise I could transition and live a normal life as a woman. All that made me manifest my transness into a fetish, as I didn't know where else it could go.

>>8416428
Yeah that's how I feel.
Coping mechanism is a good work for it, I wasn't entirely happy as saying it helped me repress, but I couldn't find a better word for it.

>All the shit contradicting each other ITT

>>8418532
Some of us provided citations..

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>>8415299
Hi Anon, I often wonder this my self.
But i think the 100% clear answer here is not available due to so many factors coming into play.. So much stuff goes on in the brain it's near impossible for us Humans to understand it as a whole.. But if you want my opinion on the matter i think it's a little bit of everything, from the way society looks a treats Males and Females to the way rouge hormones could be surging through out the body from Birth or Adolescence. The Human body is a complex thing so we might never know the root cause.. BUT.. i do think the issues are more based on society rather then wanting to be the opposite gender from birth.. i'm not saying that there isn't valid issues but i do think society plays a huge role in all of this.. If we took away everything Male and Female related (Clothes, Entertainment, The way people treat Males and Females, Etc) i'm sure the numbers of Transgender people would sink like a rock. I don't think EVERYONE would stop being Trans.. but i feel a lot of them would. A bit of a personal note here.. if i had to option to hop out of my Males body into a dog ugly fat Woman's body i'd do it in a heartbeat, i don't care what i look like, as long as i'm a Human Female i'd be happy with that.. (Not that i want to look ugly or anything) but it just goes to show you i'd take anything i could get.. I think some Trans people are only in it for the looks to perhaps trick and decisive Men for some kinda weird sexual high..

Bottom line i think there is all sorts of "Trans" people out in the world.. Some may be in it to spy on others in the bathroom, some may do it get certain privileges, or some may truly feel like they're in the wrong body and wish for nothing more to be a normal member of the opposite sex.

>>8420442
What have you to say to the research saying otherwise?

>>8420512
Um, well that was a shotgunned response, You know there is all sorts of "Research" going on.. right? Which study are you referring too?

>>8420519
These
>>8415491

Unless all of these studies, by complete accident, had a ~100% Actually Trans rate the neurological differences can't be explained by personal desires.

>>8420536
Sorry, this stuff is over my head, i don't even know what "White matter" is.. Could you stupid fiy it for me? Or put it in some kinda nutshell?

>>8420552
Some areas of the brain are sexually dimorphic. Exposure to sex hormones maintains some of the differences, but the developmental path of others is pretty much set by early sex differentiation. Transsexuals (defined as people who claim to experience gender dysphoria and meet the diagnostic criteria for such) have brains that are in some ways dimorphically shifted toward being like those of the other gender even before HRT. Both pre-everything FTMs and MTFs have brains that are somewhere between those of males and females, leaning toward their natal sex. HRT shifts this about, making them more like the brains of their transitioned sex. Transsexuality is thus thought to be a form of intersexuality.

This is not to say that there are absolutely no people who transitioned despite not being biologically trans, but that unless all of these papers somehow only studied them by accident they're probably very rare.

>>8420601
>but that unless all of these papers somehow only studied them by accident
Blargh. I meant to write "unless all of these papers somehow only studied people unlike them by accident.." Sorry.

>>8419233
Yes and some of those citations contradict other citations itt