Second guessing homosexuality

Shameless self bump

Bamp

>>8413749
I do want a normal hetero relationship but I'm not a girl so what are you going to do?

>>8413764
I was hoping someone on here would have had some sort of experience with conversion therapy
So far internet searches have been "Here's 10 reasons why Conversion therapy is literally Hitler!"

>>8413749
Go and breed then.

You were never one of us.

>>8413777
Oh wow
I haven't thought of just doing the thing I'm seeking help about
Thanks!

>>8413783
>go to homo board
>for hetero advice

anon u dumb as hell

>>8413772
I think if you want to change your orientation you'd have to do it yourself with psychological tricks, like fantasizing about a relationship with the chosen sex. That's how I'm making myself like guys.

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>>8413749

This is pretty much me, I've posted about feeling like this before but you will just get the 'lol self-hater, mike pence will get you xD' routine.

No-one on this board can seriously help with conversion therapy or anything, they are too interested in talking about tranny stuff or posting anime yaoi husbandos, the best thing at this point is probably counselling to reconcile yourself

I haven't done anything about my feelings yet, although I am very young so there might be time. I'm not happy with my attractions, I would like to change but how genuine would it be?

good luck anon

>>8413799
I'll look into that
Thanks anon

>>8413802
Yeah
There's not a lot of tolerance in the community if you stray from the approved opinions.

>>8413794
I was asking if anyone else felt the same way because not all of us want our lives to center around
>Muh dick
>Muh asshole

Be in a gay relationship but raise children with someone of the opposite sex (preferably the surrogate mother) as a coparent.

>>8413844
I wouldn't want my children knowing they have a gay father
And I definitely wouldn't want them exposed to that lifestyle

>>8413827

I'm not a spergy autist or a self-hating nutjob, I just want to be straight, like girls, have a natural family and not have to do/be assocaited with the coming out and joining the LGBTetc. community shit

Just let me have a nuclear family pls, conversion therapy here I come, or I would if there was any

>>8413854
Exactly.
I just want what normal people have.

>>8413846
Most children of gay parents don't end up gay and don't experience bad lives. It's certainly not the ideal scenario for the sole reason that the opposite sex parent is missing. But if you have that your homosexuality is not going to ruin your children's lives.

>>8413874
I would want them to have the best outcome possible
Mother and father living under the same roof with them both in a loving and stable relationship with one another.

>>8413874
Polyamory is probably the ideal parenting setup, or something close like >>8413844

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>>8413868

Yeah but how can people like us get there? There is no conversion therapy I've found that works, and you will get shot down by the LGBTetc. lobby for even asking about it, and I couldn't fake a relationship

>>8413874
I grew up without a father and it probably made me gay, subconsciously desiring male approval that I never got from my dad through gay relationships and so on, the nuclear family is really the best model for kids. Depriving them of it should be considered at best not ideal and at worse child abuse.

>>8413880
True. But you are ultimately not the best person to be a heterosexual parent. You are gay. Get over it, if you want to have kids then try to imitate the heterosexual model to the best extent without sacrificing your happiness. Unless you feel you will truly be happy with a woman. But I doubt you do otherwise you'd already be married to one.
>>8413887
I am not advocating polyamory at all actually. The surrogate mother does not need to have a sexual relationship with the two fathers, and in fact doing so would muddy the waters and cause jealousy and corruption even worse than homosexuality.

>>8413901
I know, your model was just an approximation of polyamory with three parental figures, unless anon's male partner is entirely uninvolved in the parenting.

>>8413899
I find it ironic that this sane culture that values choice won't let us have e the choice to try to get cured
>>8413901
That is true
My shortcomings in that area would fuck them up or set an example I don't want to set.

>>8413749
being gay != being degenerate

find a cute guy, marry him, adopt/surrogate, die happy

>>8413920
*Same culture

>>8413924
You're free to do what you want
I want to at least try to be normal

>>8413932

No you're not free, no way can you try to be straight, you must encourage the two fathers/mothers model to get the 'good gay' rating

otherwise you might be admitting that gay people are just people, with the same fears and insecurities as everyone else

>>8413920

It is ironic that a community that screeches constantly about accepting different life choices cannot accept those in it's midst who might have a different path they would like to take

>>8413957
How silly of me
I almost committed wrongthink

Thank you comrade

>>8413917
Understandable. It would be equivalent to a polygynous family which is not a bad model at all. 2 dads are actually pretty cool.
>>8413920
Like I said before, your kids most likely won't turn out gay or have a bad life because you are homosexual.

Do you want to bring a life into this world or not? You think your son/daughter will look at you once they're older and say "I wish you never had me, because you're a faggot and set a bad example for me". You will be their father, they will love you because you're dad. No child would regret being bought into this world for such a trivial reason. I don't think I've ever come across a child who hated their parent for being gay. Being a bad parent is a different story.

You can still raise them in a relatively "straight" environment I think. Promote healthy heterosexual examples in media, show love (not sexual necessarily) to your surrogate mother, teach them about family values. Just be honest about what the world is like and how the nuclear straight family is the norm.

Maybe if you are very concerned, don't show PDA in front of them.

>>8413975
That isn't a terrible idea

The perfect is the enemy of the good after all

>>8413975
Personally I'd rather an arrangement with two moms, but I think either would be healthy.

i feel the same way except i'm lesbian. i don't want to think about the future. i wish i didn't want to have a family so i wouldn't worry about it and just live on my own. i also kind of wish i lived in a more conservative society where it would be easier to find a gay man to enter an arranged marriage with.

>>8413992
Just take advantage of it being an open society to openly seek out such a gay man.

Would you both have gay relationships too on the side?

>>8413992
I wish I could find a lesbian thats like you in all honesty.
Then I could have a kid with her and add our contribution to the next generation

>>8413749
You'll be disappointed by the straight "community" i assure you.

>implying true gay love is a temporary pleasure
>implying contributing to society basically means adding people to it.

I'm quite heavily disappointed with the "community" as well, but that has literally nothing to do with gayness being ok or not. I'm against gay "mariage" and against anal sex, yet i'm still absolutely content with being gay. If you think being gay means you have to do anal, then you're just an idiot who deserves the tremendous mental suffering and confusion induced by attempts of changing one's sexual orientation.

Also conversion "therapy" doesn't work.
The only cure you must find is for your lack of courage.

All those who ever tried to have a normal life have failed to find it, for it does not exist, and should not exist.

But if you want to tread the path of meaningless, fleeting social acceptance, by all means do it.

>>8413975

I think you assume that everyone is glad to be alive and grows up totally reverent of their parents.

I don't know anything about child development but I think that the mother and father model is the most stable and well-rounded environment for kids, please prove me wrong if I am

>>8414002

There should me some kind of personals service for people like us, have kids and raise them well without resorting to surrogacy or IVF

Platonically live together for the benefit of children and tell them the truth if when they are old enough, if it's the right thing to do

>>8414021
>and tell them the truth if when they are old enough,
Don't lie to them. You can be normal parents without faking that you're heterosexual for each other.

>>8413982
>>8413992
I'm >>8413975 and a lesbian. The model I'm telling the OP about is the one I plan to have, except with a dad as the coparent instead. As far as I'm concerned it's functionally no different to a family where a man has two wives.
But a lavender marriage is also an appealing option. It would be a proper hetero family model and I can be with my girlfriend on the side. No hard feelings or misunderstandings. But I feel like raising my kids without the woman I truly love is kind of a sad experience. I want her to be there with me as my (or ours) grow up, as wrong as that sounds.
It would be interesting if we both had kids with different men and then had our kids marry and have grandkids with each other. Our love would be immortalized in our grandchildren.

Alright, I'm done my creepy rant.

>>8414041
>it would be a proper hetero family model
Perhaps, but only in your delusions.

Those who accept the ideology that places biological reproduction above genuine love legitimize violence against gay people. They are essentially traitors.

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>>8414018

You sound quite similar to me in your feelings and attractions, how did you come to accept yourself or was it just not a problem for you?

I wouldn't consider my problem a lack of courage or a desire for a 'normal' life, but explicitly to not be gay

>>8414039

Not quite sure if this fake hetero parenting thing is any better than genuine homo parenting, I would have thought making it seem genuine would be best for the kids? I dunno

>>8414041

Little creepy yes but a lavender marriage would be my choice

>>8414041
>As far as I'm concerned it's functionally no different to a family where a man has two wives.
It's a kind of effective poly without the actual relationship. Just friendship and parenting.

>But I feel like raising my kids without the woman I truly love is kind of a sad experience. I want her to be there with me as my (or ours) grow up,
She could be like an aunt to them. Involved and friendly and experiencing them grow up as well as helping you and your partner, without being fully a parent.

I like the idea of that role for myself because I don't feel capable of parenting but this way my partner would still get to and I'd get to be a little involved and to feel like a parent when I want to without the full responsibilities.

>>8413932
>You're free to do what you want
I wish I was :^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L1a7CHYVLg
>I want to at least try to be normal
what is normal
who decides what normal is
why is normal good
why is abnormal bad
is it bad that not 2 trees look exactly alike?

>>8414173

OK let's rephrase normal as heterosexual

Why is it frowned upon to attempt some kind of conversion?

>>8414082
I did come to accept myself because i tried to change myself after having listened to a violent anti-gay sermon.
It was the worst period of my life, on all accounts, physical, mental, spiritual. I was virtually dead on the inside. Then at some point, after so much self-hate and inner loneliness i just broke in tears at the realization that my desire to be with another man was about love, not sex, and that it could not be questioned by anyone, ever. I spent two years reflecting and meditating on the issue of wether being gay is ok or not. My conclusion is that it's perfectly acceptable under a few necessary, harsh restrictions, exactly like straight is okay under a few necessary, harsh restrictions.
No anal sex, no straight man sleeping with a man, no "marriage", no lack of manliness (you can have a more feminine appearance than other males, but that doesn't exclude you from being courageous, mentally and physically), not hiding behind a "fem" or "masc" mask (pardon the pun), these are fake identities suggested by others, you must be fully and only yourself. Other basic rules like monogamy, no promiscuity etc... are too self-evident for me to bother writing them. You must understand that even though straight people may be disgusted by gayness, they'll have an infinitely more negative view of you if you pathetically try to kneel in front of something that is against everything you truly are inside. It's as if you accepted on principle that someone would torture you for liking something that he really doesn't like at all. I distinguish two kinds of homophobia, one is natural (restrictions i mentionned earlier) the other is excessive: believing that the exclusive meaning of life is reproduction, that true love between adults from different families is unacceptable love, you must understand that homophobic people really have a problem with gay love itself, it's not just a matter of sex. The only path in all this is fair middle-ground.

>>8414250
because it reliably results in negative outcomes, ie suicide and depression

>>8414354
i must also mention the religious angle, the reason i tried to change was because of religion. A lot of my thinking lately has been related to it. You see i discovered the truth that in religion most things are interpretation. All texts that seem to condemn all forms of same-sex activity really condemn not all of it, they'd be phrased differently if they did, an example, in Leviticus you read "a man shall not lie with a male as he lies with a woman" well if that verse condemned all forms of same-sex activity, it'd simply read "a male shall not lie with a male", period. It really is as simple as that, and it works with all other texts. This point of view was further reinforced after i learned that even a prophet may, in some extraordinary circumstances, misinterpret the will of God (you see God never asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, he just interpreted it that way). So what about mere religious people that aren't prophets ? So i tried to listen to every anti-gay argument i could find and almost all of them were just pathetic ways of trying to camouflage irrational hatred under the guise of reason. The few of them that were spot-on only lead to the necessary restrictions i mentionned earlier, nothing more than that, genuine love is unassailable. And if you think about it, even though gayness has its downsides, it has many advantages, for example, in war, two men who love each other will effectively fight much harder, and that's only one example. Homosexuality is the paradoxical confirmation of heterosexuality, the exception that proves the rule. But it required me a lot of thinking to realize all of this, and the best part is that i'm not even done. You told me to describe how i came to accept myself, and i just summed it up very shortly. Good luck, whatever you'll do next.

>>8414360
dude its a fucking book from the bronze age, why are you basing your life decisions on it

>>8415026
It's from the iron age you absolute fucking pleb, gilgamesh is from the bronze age

>>8414354
>>8414360

Thanks for that, I'm not from a religious background but for you to have spent those 2 years considering what your approach to your attractions should be does sound quite similar to where I am now.

I think the point to raise about falling in love with guys rather than just sexual attraction is important, I realised I was actually gay when I noticed I was looking at guys faces and thinking whether Imd like to kiss them, hold them close etc, I think if it had just been sex I could have written it off as a fetish or just getting off on the male/male taboo

Next step for me is probably some kind of conversion therapy, even though it seems to often be a religious way for gays to be accepted. I'm not sure if there is any legit 'make you straight' course but if that fails I will probably see a psychologist or whatever about my internalised homophobia

It's nice to know I'm not the only guy with this problem, good luck to you too.

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I've grown up in a religious family. By which I mean it was all taught to me at an age where I took it all as fact without question.
In college I started to realize I couldn't defend it and never really committed to it, and now I lowkey don't believe it while still going to church every sunday because I still live with my parents.
Point being, there is a huge amount of guilt surrounding sex altogether. When I was 12 I got told off for looking at pictures of genitals on wikipedia just because I wanted to know what they looked like, and I've felt guilty looking at nudity ever since. Never used porn to masturbate either.

I had never really given sexuality much thought, most likely because I was repressing it all. But I started getting asked about it by a few friends, and they suggested I might be asexual. I started looking into it to try and understand it, but I was never convinced enough that I truly didn't feel sexually attracted to anything - yet at the same time I've never really been sure what "sexual attraction" explicitly is.

What is sexual attraction? Is it when you are able to visualize physical, sexual interactions with someone and that gives you an erection? Is there a meaningful distinction between finding something arousing and finding something sexually attractive?

That being said, just these last couple weeks I'm coming to the realization that I've been in denial about getting aroused over the thought of kissing and doing sexual things with some guys. I don't know that I've ever felt this way about a girl, but I'm still clinging onto the hope that I might be bi rather than full gay - because if that's the case, it'd mean I don't have to come out to my parents and destroy that relationship (while I doubt they'd be angry and exile me, they'd still be pretty sad and that'd fuck a lot of things up)

Everything would be so much easier if I could marry a girl and be normal, but at the moment there's no girl who I can project those feelings onto

>>8413749
The average gay community is disappointing. Having different views and not into queer culture makes gays like me and possibly you a minority within a minority. Theres always hope though, to be a stable member of society who works toward a goal in life besides chasing ass, getting stds and conforming to a herd mentality.

>>8418186
That's the right attitude.

>>8413749
Yes I think if that's what you want then it could work out. Remember most people are not 100% part of an orientation. It could be that some part of you wants some thing different from what you have now. Even if thats not the case I still think its possible as long as you have made peace with your situation and decision.

>>8418395
>most people are not 100% part of an orientation
That's just completely false.

>>8418404
labels are literally just an approximation of what you think best fits your emotions

>>8418597
No, they're not. Those who say that everyone deep down is bisexual deserve the rope.

>>8418602
Can you point me to the straight gene or the gay gene?

>>8418607
Not need for that for people to have fixed romantic attractions, idiot.

>>8418612
People determine what their orientation is based on their own interpretation of the emotions they feel. There's no objective science backing it up. It's all psychology.

>>8418711
THIS

>>8418711
>interpretation
An interpretation can be either true or false, you're only undermining your argument.

>>8418739
>An interpretation can be either true or false
sure, but you have no objective framing to measure that with.