New Law Lets Government Take Children Away If Parents Don’t

Do they turn the children into steaks if they state they're nonbinary?

>>8396227
Gender Dysphoria is a medical condition, refusing to acknowledge and treat medical conditions constitutes child abuse.

Whatever political or religious opinions you have on GD is irrelvent, the fact is that it requires medical treatment and without it the child is statistically highly unlikely to achieve a decent quality of life. It should be treated the same way as parents refusing to authorize blood transfusions for their children because of religious reasons.

The child's life is more important than your political or religious beliefs.

>>8396294
You're completely fucking retarded.

>>8396294
>Gender Dysphoria is a medical condition

[citation needed]

>>8396307
Every major psychiatric organization lists gender dysphoria as a medical condition and recommends transitioning as treatment.

In the US at least, and I assume Canada and much of the rest of the western world, parents are required by law to treat their children's medical issues regardless of political or ideological belief. For example, if a parent refuses a necessary blood transfusion for their child, the government has the right to step in and order treatment the child.

Therefore, the government should also be allowed to intervene if a parent refuses to threat the GD of their child.

>>8396313
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

>>8396227
ALREADY A THREAD >>8386714

>>8396319
Psychology isn't science, that's why it changes wildly every few years

>>8396374
Psychology and psychiatry are very different things.

>>8396427
But both are alike in not being science.

>>8396432
Oh look, it's another episode of transphobe justifies hating trannies with twisted logic and asspulls.

Sorry, Cletus, but the civilized world is quickly abandoning stone age degenerates like you. Denying a child's gender identity is tantamount to severe emotional abuse and neglect and so a civilized country has prohibited it.

I am so terribly sorry if protecting children from neanderthal psychopaths like you hurts your fee fees, but please take it to the_donald lol

>>8396432
They are still soft sciences, like it or not.
Meaning that they are what the scientific method yielded, when applied to the field in question. Meaning that even though they are inaccurate, they still hold the best and most objective answers to questions within that field.

>>8396227
>shitty law
>Canada
I'm not even surprised anymore.

>>8396492
>prohibiting child abuse
>shitty
Pick one and only one you braindead phobe

>>8396478
>soft sciences
Emphasis on the soft.

>>8396474
You misunderstand, I have no ball in this game and only posted in the thread to shit on psychology.

>>8396427
They're also not science

>>8396474
>abandoning stone age degenerates like you.

Yes for contemporary degenerates like you

>>8396227
Why doesn't this apply to other parents who are likely to abuse their children, such as Jewish and American parents who in their native traditions mutilate the genitals of their boys?

>>8396594
You know why

>>8396618
Misandry and political correctness.

>>8396294
>>8396319
Thank you for taking the time to argue with these fools. I know it is taxing to do so but I'm sure it helps questioning onlookers.

>>8396635
No need to samefag

Ok im a conservative and dont have anything against lgbt people.
But i can agree that is sounds totalitarian!!
parents should be allowed to have their opinions without the government coming in their lives and taking their children away!! so long they threat the child with respect and care for them even if they disagree!! keep the government out of peoples lives!! its already illegal to threat children as shit!!

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>>8396374
>Psychology isn't science

>>8396652
>Everyone who disagrees with me is the same person

comment if you agree

>>8396662
>its already illegal to threat children as shit!!
MGM is legal.

I would shove a bible up my ass, but I'm doing no-far 21st century.

>>8396694
apart from that and religion/:

>>8396374
This

>>8396294
Except there's no evidence that "social acceptance" or even transitioning reduces a trans person's suffering. Suicide rates before and after transition are exactly the same.

I'm all for helping people who suffer from gender dysphoria, but going along with their delusion isn't the way to help them. The fact that this has become Canadian law in the face of all evidence is reprehensible.

>>8396492
This

>>8396504
>it's in the child's best interest
>they're just protecting children from abuse
You know very well that's nowhere near the intention behind the law and you know very well that the real problem cases will just be ignored like they always have and you know very well that they do not give a crap about the children.

The fact that you so gleefully play along with it means you're either ignorant, or evil.

>>8396294
>I'm fine with the government stealing my kids the post

>>8396668
Psychology and psychiatry constantly bend to fit social standards, that's far from a science.

>>8396504
>kids
>gender identity

>>8396775
>Except there's no evidence that "social acceptance" or even transitioning reduces a trans person's suffering. Suicide rates before and after transition are exactly the same.
That's false, and has been demonstrated to be false numerous times.

>>McHugh does cite one study from 2011, by Cecilia Dhejne, MD and colleagues at Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. However, he misunderstands Dr. Dhejnes work. In the paper, Dr. Dhejne states that the study was not designed to draw conclusions on the efficacy of transgender surgeries, yet McHugh does exactly that. A closer reading of the paper shows that the increased mortality is in those who had surgery before 1989, and that mortality in trans people after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population. A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejnes work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
>The American Psychiatric Association and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health no longer view transgender identity as inherently pathological. Dr. McHughs views are stuck in the past.

>Dan Karasic, MD Health Sciences Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, UCSF Member, American Psychiatric Association Workgroup on Gender Dysphoria Member, Board of Directors, World Professional Association for Transgender Health

>>8396775
>>8396934
Citations:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x/abstract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788
https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/hormonal-therapy-and-sex-reassignment-a-systematic-review-and-met
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/23553588_Long-term_Assessment_of_the_Physical_Mental_and_Sexual_Health_among_Transsexual_Women
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/25690443

Psychiatry operates from a flawed, biased, subjective standpoint rather than an objective one.
It's nothing like proper medicine, despite psyches and big pharma trying to portray it that way to sell you pills.
No respectable science yields results that can't be applied to subjects outside of the researcher's culture.

>>8396991
Minds are a difficult thing to study, but study them we must. There are facts about them. Some facts we've gleaned. That a lot of psych research is rather soft does not mean that you get to believe whatever you want, especially when there is evidence to the contrary.

>>8396991
So glad someone pointed this out.

>>8397029
As someone with personal experience, let me tell you I am 100% sure I would trust myself before a shrink.

>>8396934
So what are the statistics?

>>8397046
Do you want the before and after statistics on tranny suicides? Is that what you want? Well there is none. There's no way to know how many entirely closeted trannies have killed themselves because people don't know when someone's entirely closeted. There's no before statistic because it'd be impossible to measure.

>>8397029
>especially when there is evidence to the contrary.
Such as?

>>8397045
What's your bad experience with shrinks?

>>8397072
I don't need no consarned crazy doctor tellin me muh feelins

>>8397072
Not him but most shrinks aren't stable themselves

>>8397072
As a boy my parents got divorced, I acted out some, blah blah blah... the point is I ended up diagnosed with depression and given Paxil. When it did the opposite of helping I was given double the dosage. Then triple. I was a kid and went along with it, my parents were clueless and went along with it. The stuff gave me a sexual dysfunction (could get hard, couldn`t cum), sucked all the zest out of me and made me suicidal. Best thing I ever did for myself was kick that poison. I never had a chemical imbalance in my brain, I was just a moody teenager and what Anon was saying about this "medicine" being used to sell pills to people who don't need them is 100% true.

tl;dr trust doctors for the physical, not the mental or spiritual

>>8397029
Such as
>>8396945

>>8397046
Honestly I don't remember. You can look up Dhejne's study for the old stats, and look up the current suicide rate of the general population to get the suicide rate of post 1989 transsexuals.

>>8397095
How did you act out? What did the drug do instead of helping? How there been long-term consequences to the drug?

>>8397173
>How did you act out?
You don't really want my life story do you? My attendance at school and my grades suffered, I became disrespectful to my parents, isolated myself, blah blah blah

>What did the drug do instead of helping?
I told you already m8

>How there been long-term consequences to the drug?
I'm honestly not sure but I'm sure as hell not going to ask a shrink about it...

>>8396662
>so long they threat the child with respect and care for them even if they disagree
Yep.

So as long as you don't just go whole "YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY SICK BECAUSE JESUS DOESN'T BELIEVE IN TRANNIES", you're fine. Your child has a mental illness, you have to treat it, or it's abuse.

Tbh it's kind of problematic because there are a looooooooooot of mental illnesses. How do we decide which ones constitute abuse if not treated? Depression? Insomnia? If we're going as far as gender identity, it's probably going to grab every thing.

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>>8396775

>>8397095
Hey, whaddya know, I got prescribed paxil pretty recently and it's been a great help for me. I feel more energetic, more motivated, less anxious, it's great. Not everyones experiences are your own.

>>8396775
>going along with their delusion isn't the way to help them
Please give an alternative treatment, then. Because as of right now, transitioning is the only treatment we have available that works in some level.

I mean, it's okay to believe it'd be better if we could make them no longer feel dysphoric without needing to transition, but all our attempts at doing so failed. If we are going to bother treating them, it has to be something that works, otherwise it'd be easier to just hand them a gun and tell them to off themselves.

>>8397259
Perhaps you really did have a chemical imbalance. It doesn't mean that all people prescribed this stuff do - or even most. And many people have had experiences like my own, people who were simply moody teenagers, then took "antidepressants" (a ridiculous name btw) and became suicidal.

>>8396227
>Canada
Opinion discarded. They think beastiality is cool too.

>>8397246
Sertii you're my greatest ally in the fight against the unwashed, innumerable hordes ;~;

>>8397282
i'm sorry i'm not typing more I just came back from uni and am really tired ;-;

you're doing well though i'm very proud!

>>8396227
What happens when the kid fakes their gender identity and they get taken away?

>>8397308
There's only an issue if the parents leave it untreated. In a way, faking an issue is also an issue, so if they're getting treatment, it's all that matters.

>>8396594
>Boys
Assuming genders? Okay, well, if you keep this shit up, have fun getting your child taken away.

>>8397267
>Please give an alternative treatment, then. Because as of right now, transitioning is the only treatment we have available that works in some level.

People believed leeches cured illnesses. Just because it's the only thing conjured up, doesn't mean it should be used.

>>8397337
Yeah, it should be used because it has been scientifically demonstrated to be effective.
>>8396945

>>8397343
Except none of that gave actual statistical evidence to back up its claims

>>8397337
Leeches are still used in medicine.

>>8397354
Follow the links dimwit. It's there.

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>>8396227
Wish they did this when I was a child
Can't help to feel its too late in life to take hormones

>>8397361
No it's not dumbfuck

>>8397368
Cool, so you can't read. What are you doing on a text-based message board?

>>8397355
So are crystals, but nobody in their right mind believes it.

>>8397371
The same thing you are

Also it's an imageboard retard.

>>8397374
On the other hand the entire medical establishment supports treating transsexuality by making transsexuals transition.

>>8397380
>entire medical establishment

Most doctors don't actually recommend it.

>>8397378
>The same thing you are
No, see, I can read. This allows me to avoid doing embarrassing things such as denying facts that are easily verifiable upthread.

>Also it's an imageboard retard
Ah, so you just look at the pretty pictures. Got you.

>>8397374
So you're ignorant about modern medicine as a whole, what a surprise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirudo_medicinalis#Medicinal_use

>>8397387
That's false. It is the standard treatment procedure in the west. One often covered by insurance.

>>8397387
actually they do

my sister is in med school and I was reading her psychiatry textbook and the chapter on gender dysphoria literally says that this is the treatment that has been shown to work and is the recommended one.

>>8396227
Good.

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>>8397246
those stats are clearly bullshit

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

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>>8397281

One day in more enlightened times bestiality will be as acceptable as LGBT

>>8397388
>says this when cant actually bring facts into the argument

>>8397389
I'm talking in references to illnesses such as the flu dubshit

>>8397417
>>8397417
you do realize those stats are for a different demographic though right

>>8397435
The facts are in the links. There are several studies there. Read them. You can't play the [citation needed] card AFTER I have cited evidence.
>>8396945

>>8397447
I read them, they give no actual statically evidence of how transitioning in tied to suicide prevention

>>8397441
And my point is leeches are useful for certain things, same as HRT.

>>8397475
Except HRT is only usesful in cases where the body production of hormones if out of whack, not for transitioning

>>8397453
They prove that transitioning improves the mental health and well-being of gender dysphorics. Are you arguing improving mental health does not reduce suicide risk?

>>8397481
>HRT is usesful in cases where the body production of hormones if out of whack
Prove it.
>not for transitioning
>>8396945

>>8397481
Except that it is demonstrably beneficial to transsexuals, as shown by numerous studies, a few of which were brought up in this thread.

>>8397453
It improves mental health and that's worthwhile, it's impossible to actually prove it reduces suicide because it's impossible to take statistics on trans people who kill themselves and take their secrets to the grave you fucking mong.

>>8397543
>More mentally healthy and happy people aren't less likely to kill themselves
You what mate?

>it's impossible to actually prove it reduces suicide because it's impossible to take statistics on trans people who kill themselves and take their secrets to the grave you fucking mong
A lot of studies are long-term followups. They definitely include "subject fucking offed themselves" entries, or we wouldn't be able to gather suicide statistics in the first place.

>>8397563
>You what mate?
You can't read, mate.
>A lot of studies are long term follow ups

And that means jack shit for people who never sought out treatment like most repressors. It's impossible to realistically gather a statistic on gender dysphoric people who choose not to transition and end up killing themselves, because generally those people are in the closet and keep it to themselves.

>>8397673
Anti-Blanchardians can't into methodology.

>>8397673
Yeah, I agree with that, but that the treatment improves the mental health and well-being of the people the studies do record is solid evidence that it lowers suicide rates because people who feel worse are more suicidal and vice versa.

>>8397699
>99.99% of the doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and neurologists can't into methodology

>>8397701
I know, and I was saying that in itself is worthwhile despite the reasonable lack of evidence of any improvement in suicide rate.
>>8397699
Blanchard was a bit of a hack, but not entirely. Still a hack though.

>>8397543
Yes, but shouldn't there be statistical evidence for people who DONT transition? Or people who back out? It's literally not impossible to create a study on this.

>>8397710
>Every doctor on Earth agrees with me because I said so

>Sources, clinical trials, documentation? DATS FUR FAGGOTS I'M JUST RITE PLEBS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>8397508
>Except that it is demonstrably beneficial to transsexuals

Except it's not, and it actually makes them dependent as well.

>>8397716
Most researchers with "out-there" pet theories are a mixture of legitimate and confirmation bias. You can't just throw out the whole corpus because one idea is kooky: many times people just get things wrong. New theories get fielded, new evidence is delved, and the world continues to turn.

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>this fucking thread

I feel really sorry to the person arguing with these two retards
>>8397726
>>8397728

>>8397417
LIFETIME suicide attempt rates.

As in, it those people may have attempted suicide before ever even coming out, and the stat in >>8397246 are on actual suicide completion rates, not attempts.

LIFETIME

>>8397726
>Because I said so
Both APA and WPATH rejected Blanchard and they dictate how transsexuality is treated in the West. Once more, with feeling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria#Diagnosis
>The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender dysphoria if the criteria in the DSM-5, are met. The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders category and into a category of its own. The DSM-5 states that at least two of the criteria for gender dysphoria must be experienced for at least six months' duration in adolescents or adults for diagnosis. The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria", after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing. Subtyping by sexual orientation was deleted.
Emphasis on the last line: Blanchard's entire hypothesis - his Transsexual Typology - is based on subtyping by orientation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#DSM-5
>In DSM-5, published in 2013, With autogynephilia (sexual arousal by thoughts, images of self as a female) is a specifier to 302.3 Transvestic disorder (intense sexual arousal from cross-dressing fantasies, urges or behaviors); the other specifier is With fetishism (sexual arousal to fabrics, materials or garments).
The only surviving mention of autogynephilia is as a fetish. As mentioned there is no subtyping by orientation so any DSM references to it are in that context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality#Blanchard.27s_theories_about_sexuality
> Blanchard's ideas about trans women have also been rejected by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), the largest association of medical professionals who provides care for transgender people, as lacking empirical evidence and for stigmatizing behavior instead of focusing on treating distress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_the_Health_of_Transsexual,_Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People

>>8397736
>tripfag

>>8397728
>Except it's not
Hey, it appears that you missed this post.
>>8396945

>>8397719
Most people don't transition, but most people also don't experience gender dysphoria. It would be very difficult to get an accurate statistic on people who don't transition but experience gender dysphoria, who end up killing themselves because of gender dysphoria. It's easy to get an accurate statistic on trannies who did transition and then kill themselves because pretty much all trans people have it on a medical record somewhere that they were trans, but people with gender dysphoria who don't seek out transition don't have a big billboard on their head labelling them trans, generally don't have any medical records saying they're trans, and usually keep it to themselves that they're trans. Trying to get a statistic on it would be like trying to take a statistic on how depressed people who've never been diagnosed with depression or spoken to a psych are.

>>8397767
>It would be very difficult

But not impossible, it's not done because it wouldn't actually benefit big pharma for having this information released.

>>8397777
>muh big farma

There's no money in hormones as is, you can't patent most of them.

>>8397777
actually how would it be possible? Do you have any ideas?
>>8397760
>newfriend
>>8397749
I don't think you understand anon. We are talking about children and teenagers here in this thread. Specifically children and teenagers that express the fact that they are trans to their parents. Your statistics arent a very accurate representation of this demographic whereas mine are moreso

>>8397777
It would be practically impossible. If you have a good method for it, please do tell, it would be revolutionary, but currently it's about as easy to argue "people who we know are trans are more likely to commit, thus people we don't know are trans but secretly want to be aren't likely to commit suicide" as it is for me to argue "people whose existence others are aware of have a 100% death rate, so if no one ever knows you exist you're less likely to die."

>>8397808
>>newfriend

Considering when you started tripfagging, you're the new one here.

>>8397777

If there was a conspiracy theory to fabricate a mental condition and trick people into purchasing medication, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to fabricate a condition that affects more than .6% of the population? And one that wouldn't be hugely stigmatized which dissuades people from seeking the medication? And to prescribe a medication that isn't one of the cheapest in the country despite already huge demand for it?

>>8397808
>I don't think you understand anon. We are talking about children and teenagers here in this thread. Specifically children and teenagers that express the fact that they are trans to their parents. Your statistics arent a very accurate representation of this demographic whereas mine are moreso

I'm on your side dummy. I was saying why the interpretation in >>8397417 is faulty.

>>8397808
>>8397833
>tfw there's a lot of friendly fire going on ITT

>>8397833
oops sorry

>>8397882
Fucking dumbshit trip

>>8397934
Redundant

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>>8397432

Bestiality is already widely accepted. It just isn't usually called that.

Look at this picture. Which would you rather wake up next to, this bizarre mammal or a cute doggy? And yet this is the one that's legal, if fucking is involved.

>>8397276

Probably nobody has a "chemical imbalance". That concept is not supported by science, according to what I've read. It's just a convenient (but unfortunately misleading) popular model for how an antidepressant drug could conceivably solve a problem.

Nobody really knows how they work, when they work.

>>8396227

My good news for the day. Hopefully it's properly implemented, though it probably won't be. No more Leelah Alcorns or mes for that matter.

>>8396294

I'm in agreement with this anon.

>>8399418
Yeah but THIS has at least minimal understanding what is going to happen to it's pussy and can simply deny or agreed on the following act. Doggy have no idea of what is good/bad for it and has no self awareness thus makes one who fuck it - rapist and consent obsolete.

So NO. bestality will be legal only when animals begin to procreate acts of consent.

>>8400040
>or mes for that matter.
Tell your story.

>>8402179

I see. So if a really horny dog happens to forcibly fuck a non-consenting human, then actually the human raped the dog.

Corollary: If I identify as a dog, I get to fuck anybody I want, regardless of their preferences; and then I can sue them afterward, for emotional damages.

ITT: Alt Right makes themselves look like retards.

Why can't you just fuck off and leave people alone?

I wonder if lawfag had anything to do with this

>>8403182
>alt right

Fucking newfag

>>8397934
>not using dollchan to autohide all namefag/tripfag posts

Oh you kids these days...

>>8396432
Prayer isn't a science either.

>>8403045
>>8403045
>So if a really horny dog happens to forcibly fuck a non-consenting human, then actually the human raped the dog.

No? That doesn't follow from what that anon said at all.

>If I identify as a dog, I get to fuck anybody I want, regardless of their preferences; and then I can sue them afterward, for emotional damages.

No, because there is no reason to believe a biological human can genuinely identify as a different species, and thus no reason to legally treat them as that species. In contrast, there is a huge amount of evidence supporting the fact that a human can genuinely identify as the gender opposite their biological sex, and thus there is a reason to legally treat them as the gender they identify with.

>>8396294
this

>>8396492
>>8396778
Why not? Why believe it?
>>8396662
>>8396775
>>8396788
...huh, why believe this?
>>8397095
Whoa, someone's actually got a fairly apt response to the issue being thrown around here.

>>8396227
I see a lot of ignorance of the questions we should be asking:
>What is the deciding factor of these children being trans? Word of mouth? Therapy?
If word of mouth, than a lot of tumblr users are being yanked out of homes.
> What age are they saying children are allowed to dictate their genders
There's been a case of a child being regarded as trans at 3 years old because "she" liked playing with her sister's barbies. I know most of us knew we were kind of "odd," but a lot of children just say "yes" when asked vague questions. If a therapist asked me if I wanted to be a astronaught when I was little, I'd just say yes because idk I'm 4 years old.
> Do the parents have to be complety unaccepting in order to have the child taken away or only have to tell them, "I think you are going through a phase"
I know denying a child of its gender is child abuse, but will families who don't understand that get their child taken away because of this? My own mother thinks I'm just really gay and want to dress like a girl. She accepts me, but doesn't understand that I feel like I was born in a wrong body, she just thinks I have a weird fetish.

Y'all are thinking about the rednecks who will actually be abusing their children and literally not about the good people who the system will fuck over.
I'm only saying because if this law was in action when I was a kid I'd be taken away from a mother who didn't refuse to understand, just couldn't.

>>8409735
>child abuse,

Except it's not