Motivation for transitioning MtF

>>8392978
No not really.

>>8392978
not at all

>>8392978
That's something AGP would say, not actual tranny.

not even attracted to women so lol

>>8393004
I'm agp and I wouldn't

>>8393015
this

>>8393004
Ok, considering the amount of "Not at all" votes I've gotten so far, I might as well say that I took this description directly from Anne Lawrence's book Men Trapped in Men's Bodies.

>>8393028
What is the book about?

>>8393020
Why not?!

>>8393028
That book was good in that it helped me understand I was trans while I was still delusionally thinking I identified as a man

>>8393087
Probably just because it sounds too creepy?

>>8393072
Autogynephilia.

>>8393097
Look at this OP, you (or Anne Lawrence rather) were right but she just wouldn't put it that way because of connotations.

>>8393028
It's kind of a dumb quote. It sounds like something only 50 year old hons would say as their dysphoria catches up to them and causes multitudes of other mental problems and they go full-on buffalo bill and start tossing women in a hole in the ground.
It's like the 4chan joke that all the transbians are just becoming their own gf's. It's just a meme, it's not actually what people are doing.

>>8393142
I don't think so. Transbians don't actually want to be like the women they love. They want to replicate heterosexual dynamics in a relationship with a cis woman, where they're the woman and the cis woman is the man.

>>8393157
They want to replicate heterosexual dynamics where *they are the woman they love*.

You say transbians now but transwomen dating men might be a better place to spot this phenomenon.

>>8393151
>It's like the 4chan joke that all the transbians are just becoming their own gf's. It's just a meme, it's not actually what people are doing.
Protip: There's a reason the meme caught on.

>>8393151
I just wanted to see how 4chan reacted to this quote, since I'd done a previous survey (on reddit) which found that like half of all trans women said that what they find sexually attractive affects what they want to be like.

(Granted, half of all cis women said so too. I should probably examine this more.)

I thought it'd be interesting to try other formulations and see if I get different results.

>>8393188
citation needed on both of those, friend.

>>8393240
>>8393028

>>8393157
>where they're the woman and the cis woman is the man.

so...mental illness.
why does it always come down to this?!

>>8393327
How is that much different from anyone who wants a butch partner?

I don't even like women.

>>8392978
Hell no. I can't stand most women.

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>>8393380
>not wanting to look like this

>>8393407
EWwwWwWWWwWWwwWwWWWWW

WHAT IS THAT

>>8393422
... Are you ok?

>>8393431
fuck no

What THE FUCK IS THAT

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>>8393422
This is what men want.

>>8393422
>WHAT IS THAT

Fashion, obvs

>>8393439
gross shit
>>8393447
HAHAHAH

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>>8393456
What's gross about sum thicc gurls? You're just jealous, hon.

>>8393439
>>8393459
>tfw you wouldn't mind being thicc like this
>glad you're a total lankdog because you'd be a fatass when old if thicc when yung

>>8393459
in the trash it goes.

>>8392978

I'm AGP and I still put not at all because I don't agree with the phrasing. I don't "love" women and I'm not doing it to become like what I "love." I am attracted to the bodies of certain women and I would like to look like them in particular, but I'm not doing it because I'm attracted to them.

I want all Blanchard shitposters to die. They're completely immune to reason and evidence. Just gotta cut the losses by rounding them up and firing.

>>8393188
>Protip: There's a reason the meme caught on.
The reason is /pol/tards spamming it to hurt people and self-hating trannies falling for it.

>>8393546
>They're completely immune to reason and evidence.
???

>>8393407
I'd actually want to look like that, but a little more larger + rounder in the thigh area.

Gotta get that chav/slav BF

>>8393569
I've debated them dozens of times and every fucking time it comes down to "my anecdotal experience says the typology is real therefore all of the methodological flaws you pointed out don't mean shit".

OP is a headcase on another level. He thinks he's a researcher. He goes through online communities and posts polls with the delusion that he is gathering scientific evidence, without any regard for the nature of the populations he is polling. He also once seriously suggested the idea of pseudocissexuality (where a trans person stays cis because they have REVERSE AGP A FETISH FOR BEING CIS).

>>8393565
I wonder why you're so determined to tell yourself that despite the total lack of evidence.

>>8393627
Because I've been here for long enough to see the meme form. It was always tossed about as an insult until recently, when a group of vulnerable people took it upon themselves. A trio of internet scientist LARPers did the rest.

>>8393592
>"my anecdotal experience says the typology is [false] therefore all of the methodological flaws you pointed out don't mean shit"
the complete and comprehensive summary of every argument against Blanchard.

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>>8393407
>>8393439
>>8393459

>tfw I want to be thicc

>>8393470

>glad you're a total lankdog because you'd be a fatass when old if thicc when yung

True if you're lazy and eat tons. That applies to lankfags too. You don't get fat just because.

>>8393658
That's why every major scientific institution turned against it, right? All of those scientists and researchers are just going off anecdotes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria#Diagnosis
>The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender dysphoria if the criteria in the DSM-5, are met. The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders category and into a category of its own. The DSM-5 states that at least two of the criteria for gender dysphoria must be experienced for at least six months' duration in adolescents or adults for diagnosis. The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria", after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing. Subtyping by sexual orientation was deleted.
Emphasis on the last line: Blanchard's entire hypothesis - his Transsexual Typology - is based on subtyping by orientation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#DSM-5
>In DSM-5, published in 2013, With autogynephilia (sexual arousal by thoughts, images of self as a female) is a specifier to 302.3 Transvestic disorder (intense sexual arousal from cross-dressing fantasies, urges or behaviors); the other specifier is With fetishism (sexual arousal to fabrics, materials or garments).
The only surviving mention of autogynephilia is as a fetish. As mentioned there is no subtyping by orientation so any DSM references to it are in that context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality#Blanchard.27s_theories_about_sexuality
> Blanchard's ideas about trans women have also been rejected by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), the largest association of medical professionals who provides care for transgender people, as lacking empirical evidence and for stigmatizing behavior instead of focusing on treating distress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_the_Health_of_Transsexual,_Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People

>>8393720
You've been BTFO over this many times before and spamming the links more than people are willing to bother debunking you doesn't change a thing.

>>8393658
>>8393720
Transsexuality is now thought to be caused by genetical and/or natal-enviromental factors.

>44. In sum, gender identity, whether consistent or inconsistent with other sex characteristics, may be understood to be “much less a matter of choice and much more a matter of biology” (Coolidge et al., 2000). The scientific evidence supports the paradigm that transsexualism is strongly associated with the neurodevelopment of the brain (Zhou et al., 1995; Kruijver et al., 2000). It is clear that the condition cannot necessarily be overcome by “consistent psychological socialisation as male or female from very early childhood” and it is not responsive to psychological or psychiatric treatments alone (Green, 1999). It is understood that during the fetal period the brain is potentially subject to the organising properties of sex hormones (Kruijver et al., 2000; 2001; 2002; 2003). In the case of transsexualism, these effects appear to be atypical, resulting in sex-reversal in the structure of the BSTc, and possibly other, as yet unidentified, loci (Kruijver, 2004). The etiological pathways leading to this inconsistent development almost certainly vary from individual to individual, so no single route is likely to be identified. Different genetic, hormonal and environmental factors, acting separately or in combination with each other, are likely to be involved in influencing the development of the psychological identification as male or female. Psychosocial factors and cultural mores are likely to impact on outcomes (Connolly, 2003).

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2005to2009/2006-atypical-gender-development.html

Blanchard's typology was dismissed because there is no evidence that autogynephilia causes transsexuality. All he has ever found are correlations, and numbers similar to those Hirschfeld found. His phallometric experiment "proving" that gynephilic MTFs are misreporting had a sample size of 9 middle-aged "crossdressing men".

>>8393726
No one has ever even fielded an argument against what I've suggested. People only screeched incoherently, as Blanchardians tend to do when confronted with the fact that actual neurologists and psychologists thing Blanchard is a hack and have removed his work from every medical guideline.

>>8393347
Because trans-gendered's are icky

>>8393739
probably pure coincidence that agps are also trannies.

>>8393592
I know my evidence isn't perfect, and I am working on ways to mitigate this problem. I'm not an idiot, despite what you'd think.

Also, I wasn't the one who invented the concept of MetaCis (PsCis), one of my friends did because he thought it described his experiences. Later, I ended up talking with someone else I know and finding out that MetaCis also described his experiences. Also, I mostly treat it as an interesting hypothesis.

>>8393739
>His phallometric experiment "proving" that gynephilic MTFs are misreporting had a sample size of 9 middle-aged "crossdressing men".

Isn't phallometry a bullshit science anyway?

>>8393760
Nah, the correlation is strong. There is probably a connection. There is just no reason to believe a fetish can turn into an orientation, especially since every other sort of orientation is known to be innate and immutable. You can't make a straight man gay, but you can make an AGP teen stop being AGP. There is just no strong evidence for such an enormous claim. Single digit sample sizes are not what you need. Don't think I'm making shit up either - Lawrence's book goes over the experiment I'm thinking of.

Given the natal-environmental and/or genetic links it seems rather more plausible that transsexuality is biological, though no single mechanism has been identified as of yet.

>>8393796
>There is probably a connection.
whatever might it be?

>but you can make an AGP teen stop being AGP
proof?

>>8393769
Look I appreciate your civility but I'm going to keep crusading against you because you're doing harm.

>>8393806
>whatever might it be?
I don't know. I think it might be a repression mechanism but I can't prove it. That would be consistent with a lot of Blanchard's data. You're likely to repress for longer if you're AGP (resulting you in transitioning later), gynephilia is associated with a masculine brain structure in the dimorphic areas (which explains childhood gender conformity) and you can be attracted to the ideal image of a female self as an object of desire because you're attracted to women.

https://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/8381764/#q8382324

>proof?
This is what Blanchard said - he believes children and teens can be "cured" of AGP, and that AGP is not an innate thing you're born with. Adults with a chronic case of AGP are beyond saving though.

>>8392978
why isn't 'i have gender dysphoria' a valid answer?

>>8393869
>resulting you in
Ugh. Sorry. It's 4 AM.

>>8393782
Why would it be bullshit.
If your cock is getting hard then maybe just maybe that means you're getting turned on.
How else would you measure arousal?
Subjective self description?
Then how would you correct for internalized homophobia/self-loathing.

>>8393919
What was that arousal even being measured in relation to? I'm a little rusty on those studies.

>>8393927
A crossdressing narrative. Those nine people denied being aroused by such fantasies but were measurably aroused despite that.

>>8393946
Well I'm not aroused by crossdressing, but I would probably be aroused depending on the context of how the story was being told, like if it was a hot female voice talking sexily. Did they control for that?

>>8393959
I don't think they wrote that down. I might dislike Blanchard but to be fair I don't think he'd fuck something like that up. It is fully possible that some people who say they don't experience AGP actually do experience it, or experience it at a barely perceptible level. Jumping to the conclusion that every counter-typology report is a misreport from that, though, is a major major mistake. Same for the idea of separate etiologies.

>>8393871
Because it's circular.

>>8394079
A lot of motivations are. People want to eat because they're hungry. Transsexuals want to transition because of gender dysphoria. What causes hunger and what causes dysphoria are different questions, and the answer to them is not necessarily approachable for the individual.

>>8394131
Those aren't comparable.

>>8393869
>you can be attracted to the ideal image of a female self as an object of desire because you're attracted to women.
then why aren't cis women agp?

>This is what Blanchard said
source of him saying agp is different to orientations this way?

>>8394174
Why not?

>>8394224
Hunger is a bodily function.

>>8393592
>OP is a headcase on another level.
>REVERSE AGP A FETISH FOR BEING CIS
No one has ever even fielded an argument against what she's suggested. People only screeched incoherently, as Blanchard deniers tend to do.

>>8394450
Honestly, the reason I love the concept of MetaCis so much is because it is a relatively mundane logical consequence of Blanchardianism, even though it seems absurd to many. I probably wouldn't have posted so much about it if it wasn't this beautiful blend of simplicity and confusion.

>>8394486
I really really like it.

>>8394450
the only argument you field against psychobabble is putting it in the trash bin

PROTIP: if you have no degree you have no voice. Screech about it all you want, enjoy languishing in obscurity.

>>8394547
>Incoherent screeching.
Typical Blanchard denier.

What's your degree by the way?

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>>8394215
>Then why aren't cis women agp?
They're not forced to repress femininity and thus femininity is not taboo to them.

>source of him saying agp is different to orientations this way?
Ray Blanchard believes that transsexuality is not innate, and can be cured in children and teenagers, just as his typology suggests, so trans people below 18 should undergo psychotherapy and made cis instead of transitioning. He supports transitioning as a palliative treatment for severe cases in adults. He calls helping people below 18 transition child abuse.

Minors being curable is how he interprets the desistance statistics.

>>8394450
I debated them numerous times (a thing which they can ascertain) , and posted a wall of citations showing professional consensus is strictly against Blanchard in this thread. I'm mocking metacissexuality because even Blanchard would call that bonkers.

>>8393720
>>8393739
Why does spamming the same links over and over not convince people?!