honestly

>>8392119
Poor mental health is caused by the social stigma we get.

>faulty genetics
Does this meme still live on?

>>8392119
>Poor mental health
Due to societal pressure and, in the case of transsexuals, dysphoria. The latter is treated via transitioning. Transsexuals who transition young and live in accepting areas are about as well-adjusted as their peers. Gays who live in accepting areas are about as well-adjusted as their peers.

>Native function
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

>Genetics
In a sense transsexuals ARE physically flawed, much like many other kinds of intersexuals, which is why treatment is focused on aligning the body with the mind rather than the mind with the body.

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>>8392119
>corrilated

>>8392169

>Mitosis and Meiosis
The reason DNA exists, is so it can re-create itself before its shell or ((cell)) goes through apoptosis.
Apoptosis is self genocide, aka rejecting the entire purpose of the DNA, to continue forever.


your body literally wants to kill itself because its so gay, its an organic meme

>>8392158
An overwhelming majority of lgbt ... had vile, abuse ridden childhoods.

mental health came before the social stigma
im not retarded, i know this isnt the case in about <10% of incidence

>>8392248
>The reason DNA exists
Is coincidence. Self-reproducing structures have come to by by chance, and have self-perpetuated. They have no intrinsic moral merit.

>>8392262
Gender and orientation variance are caused by natal-environmental factors and potentially hereditary factors. There's no reason to believe these people are innately less stable post-treatment. If well-treated young transsexuals are about as mentally healthy as their peers (and they factually are according to recent works) there is zero reason why that wouldn't be true for gays.

>>8392176
id like to respond to each point but for my sanity

the absolute native function of our most fundamental form, DNA, is to reproduce. The first 3 codons in any mRNA of absolutely any organism is "start reproducing me." This the case for bacteria, bananas, cancer, viruses, hereditary disorders, shape, weight, height, dogs, fleas, trees, mold, mushrooms, birds, dinosaurs, the lockness monster, Jesus, kathy griffin

everything

>>8392248
>using cell division and apoptosis as evidence for "faulty genetics"
Where the fuck did you study biology,
Somalia University?
>>8392262
And you, did you study psychology at Uganda University of Social Science?

>>8392222
>>>responds with actual bigotry to assumed/designated bigotry

speak like a good, honest adult otherwise no one will take you seriously

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>>8392262
>An overwhelming majority of lgbt ... had vile, abuse ridden childhoods.

source?

>>8392291
please look at >>8392306, the first thing ever is not a coincidence

point two: whatever comes after the abuse doesnt matter in seeing it as "good or bad," the action itself is vile and only the actor is at fault but we must take it for what it is and what it does. The abuse breaks people and until you fix it, nothing about yourself can be absolutely true because you're shrewed in a fear of fear, it's the child of PTSD. I suffer from the same affliction, i understand. My symptoms manifest differently but it is the same effector, the childhood trauma.

we can not ignore that because it makes everything easier but we're killing ourselves trying to breath through the masks we have layered on.

>>8392310
first 3 codons of any DNA resulting in anything are translate into "start reproducing me"

>>8392326
did you have life affecting abuse as a child?

typically before the age of 5 but you can be impacted in such a way until the age of 25 in late trauma as the brain hasnt fully developed. Developed is a poor word in this case, i can expand if you'd like.

>>8392306
You're confusing what a thing does for what a thing ought do. You cannot derive an ought from an is. What is natural is not innately good and vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

The natural function of an organism is to reproduce in the exact same way that the natural function of a river is to flow and the natural function of a rock is to not move. That things are this way is the result of a cosmic coincidence. There is no guiding hand, no purpose, no inherent value. Value is a man-made shadow cast by the structure of the mind.

>>8392387
in the category of options that reproduction is, only one other option exists. Killing yourself, even if that means waiting until you slip away in your sleep in a nursing home.

everything is flourishing with the genetic history of everything ever. willingly allowing the end of reproduction is the death of history.

>>8392366
> is not a coincidence
That there is life at all is a coincidence. That it evolved in such a way is a coincidence. A chain of random events that created a self-perpetuating system. Are you familiar with Conway's game of life? Some structures are self-perpetuating. That is, they self-replicate indefinitely. If you take a Conway board and randomly speckle dots you will sometimes get boards where life exists briefly and then dies out and sometimes you'll get boards with self-multiplying structures. The universe has come into being in a similar fashion.

>point two: whatever comes after the abuse doesnt matter in seeing it as "good or bad," the action itself is vile and only the actor is at fault but we must take it for what it is and what it does. The abuse breaks people and until you fix it, nothing about yourself can be absolutely true because you're shrewed in a fear of fear, it's the child of PTSD. I suffer from the same affliction, i understand. My symptoms manifest differently but it is the same effector, the childhood trauma.
Abuse does not make one gay or trans so I don't see the relation to the topic.

>>8392326
His imagination.

>>8392402
>Are you familiar with Conway's game of life?
He's a /pol/tard nihilist who slotted Darwin in the God-shaped hole in his mind. Do you think he knows about the game of life?

>>8392397
>>8392387
again, the most basic function of all life when zoomed all the way into the string of free data of DNA is to continue reproducing and storing data of history as nature and growing it through nurture. This is the case for a human, a cancer, the flue, a banana, mushrooms, really everything that is, is a result of DNA reproducing. There is no future with out reproduction, when you lose this power to influence the future, you become a slave to mommy and daddy or whomever is pretending to be them.

>>8392402
are you gay or trans?

have you been abused?

lets figure it out, we have ways to do this shit, we're powerful creatures.

>>8392419
Darwin was a retard that dreamed of utopia

>>8392407
are you lgbt? have you been abused? lets do a study

>>8392387
Never did he make a moral argument. He made a factual one about whether the genetics are faulty or not. It's not a claim that one ought not be gay because it's unnatural. Stop being such a fucking neckbeard with these fallacies

>>8392397
>Killing yourself
You're going to die anyhow. Cease to be. Whatever legacy you leave behind is as immaterial to you as whatever happened before you were. You did not exist from the beginning of time until your birth and you will not exist for an eternity afterwards. Even after the universe ends. Having or not having children changes nothing in that sense.

>The end of reproduction is the death of history.
Suppose you make the arbitrary decision to value the continuation of civilization. Okay. The vast majority of people desire to procreate. They can focus on the child-rearing business. You can do more impactful things such as research. A single prolific scientist does more good to humanity than a million of child-spawning office workers.

>>8392373
And the last 3 are "you can stop here", so with that logic being gay would just be "you can stop reproducing this batch is finished".
Yet you won't accept that because you're just trying to "prove" that you are right, instead of trying to prove what is true.

Secondly, "faulty genetics" would mean your cells aren't behaving like they should, like cancer.
yet cancer is your example of genetics done right (dooming an individual organism and thus itself meaning it failed even as a parasite and in one case almost bringing a species to extinction. Talk about faulty genes), while being a fully functioning human is somehow not. Ergo your definition is arbitrary at best and therefore useless.

Lastly evolution does not use terms like "faulty genetics". Evolution is the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" method.
You are thinking of Lamarck, whose theory fits better with epigenetica and certain bacteria where behavior can directly be passed on to offspring.

PS as an evolutionary nihilist you suck as well.
But that's a different reason.

>>8392423
It is a *function* of life - that is, it is a thing that life generally does. Not a thing that life *ought* do, unless you value the result. Even if you value the result you can trivially allow other members of your species to do the reproductive labor while you focus on, lets say, the white collar aspects of civilization building.

>>8392428
This is not how you do science.

>>8392440
The very premise that a gene that causes you to not want to reproduce is flawed is based on the idea that wanting to reproduce is the "right" outcome.

A sickness is only ever a sickness if it damages the one it affects or those near them, with damage being defined by the individual. Homosexuality is not a flaw for the same reason asexuality isn't a flaw.

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>>8392435
>>8392428
>lets do a study
>lets figure it out

nigga, that's not how science works

>>8392440
thank you for understanding how to differentiate ethos, pathos, and logos. Can we meme the definitions?

>>8392484
Face me or get the fuck out. It is an *ought* statement to say that, out of a statistical range of genetic outcomes, the one which causes an individual to want to reproduce is preferable and "right" while the one that doesn't is "flawed".

>>8392478
Maybe you can say how you think science does work.

Spoiler: You won't get it right.

>>8392441
You don't get it. We all have little pieces of superhuman in us, these are good genes that promote reproduction. If we can get all of those together we'd be a lot better off.

Help us help everyone, dont kill yourself ending everything your great-nth father and mother did to climax to this exact moment, and simply the next. All of that is in your children. Its real and physical.

Our bodies are intoxicated with willing us to live forever, and for some reason you think you're so broken that you shouldn't even consider the thought.

>>8392517
It sure as hell doesn't work by asking a bunch of people on a Portuguese pantaloon painting commune whether they have traits A and B.

>>8392463
You're completely ignoring phases g1, g2, and s which are all about genetic modification and growth. Those are the cell phases in which the cell is truly awake and alive.

i try really really hard not to avoid and moral spin or inclination as it seems to distract discussion. Every word i choose is with purpose so assign the literal definition.

this is not open to interpretation, its open to analysis.

>>8392262
>An overwhelming majority of lgbt ... had vile, abuse ridden childhoods.

This.

>>8392519
>You don't get it. We all have little pieces of superhuman in us, these are good genes that promote reproduction. If we can get all of those together we'd be a lot better off.
That's a completely ludicrous statement. The genes that cause you to want to reproduce have nothing to do with qualities such as intelligence. In fact intelligent people tend to reproduce less because they typically want to have less children.

>Help us help everyone, dont kill yourself ending everything your great-nth father and mother did to climax to this exact moment, and simply the next. All of that is in your children. Its real and physical.
I'm not "killing myself" by not having children, just as you are not living on by having children. Whether you have children or not you're still going to die and disappear forever. Hell, with overpopulation being an issue, I'm helping you more by *not* having children.

>Our bodies are intoxicated with willing us to live forever, and for some reason you think you're so broken that you shouldn't even consider the thought.
Reproducing does nothing to extend your life. Your children aren't you in any sense.

>>8392517
correlation doesn't imply causation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

>>8392473
how do you do sciences? am i supposed to guess if you've been abused? that is disallowed in the scientific method, if i cannot understand you truthfully, i can not see you in analysis.

tell me, what happens to a species(meaning group with shared genetic index, regardless of phenotype) when it stops reproducing?

it stops existing forever, there is not coming back. Humans try playing God all the time, they even taunt it but i still dont see any woolly mammoths walking around yet

>>8392478
everyone is so fucking annoying with trying to get it perfect the first try when theyve got no fucking idea what they're aiming for.

how about we start simple and go from there? I'll even do the math and analysis for you, i dont need my daddy to help with homework

>in which the cell is truly awake and alive
It was at this very moment that
>>8392533
sounded more like some spiritual yoga practitioner trying to convince her friend that drinking Quinoa tea before sleep actually helps your genetic vitality, instead of an amateur biologist who would at least try to sound as if he had any expertise on the field of genetics.

>>8392500
youre fucking retarded, you're telling me how i ought to use the word ought, because using the word ought invalidates claims.

>>8392566
>how do you do sciences?
By doing it properly, in a research lab, on a large sample size, selected by the proper procedures to assure that it is representative.

>tell me, what happens to a species(meaning group with shared genetic index, regardless of phenotype) when it stops reproducing?
Since homosexuality and transsexuality are both caused by genetic factors only a small minority of humanity is not reproducing. Humanity will continue on, just as it always has, despite these groups existing for as long as humans have.

>Playing God
There are homosexual animals and those don't reproduce either. This is the polar opposite of playing god - it is behaving as comes naturally.

As an aside if you believe in God that explains a lot. God fiction.

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>>8392566
>implying humans have stopped reproducing

if you're wondering why homosexuals still exist even though they don't reproduce it is because genes that increase fecundity in females are responsible for creating homosexuals.

Learn2Science

>>8392562
then why in the most simple environments that need not interpretation- the smartest, strongest, dick swangingist dude, is the one that is desired and alpha?

Survival of the fittest is backwards, i never liked it. Its more like "desire of the most willing and capable."

and i am not ludicrous, flying a rocket over a caveman is superhuman, genetics are a function of time. Only genetics allowed us to remember the past enough to figure out what the fuck is going on right now.

you're so materialistic and self centered that you think you as an individual represent the life of the human "try". Maybe you could, but itd be very tough. We've been at this for billions of years and havent done anything expect hit cheap plastic with your fingers a few times.

>>8392580
Now you're just incoherent. Work on your reading comprehension before deciding to argue about things that you don't understand. That statement is very simple and specific: there is no non-subjective reason to prefer the more statistically common outcome over the other and call it "correct". That is a moral ought statement.

>>8392578
stop that verbose bigotry, i dont care if i didnt use your favorite words

Being alive is characterized by being able to influence the world around us, causing effect. The cell cannot have other motivation during reproduction, it can't really do anything.

Only when its in g1, g2, s is when the ribosomes are in the Endoplasmic reticulum creating proteins and enzymes that enable any sort of function, like existing.

sorry i have to sound like a fucking nerd but you're getting annoying with all this 4d emotion on a 2d screen, i dont know your life story man

>>8392586

No scientists are tying to play god, bring back things that cannot exists any longer through mating. Why even go that far though, just make some babies and then live your life.

I'm not saying humanity wont continue, I'm saying you precious little faggot in particular wont. The fact you folks are on the chans realizes your aspirations.

If I hated you folks pretending to be faggots, I'd leave you alone and let you die out.

>>8392597

okay so t
>he mom hates the father so much, her genes make a gay baby so his linage cant continue

thats the real world prescription of what claims that you've laid out. I'm not sure if you understand that so before we go further
are you autistic?

not saying you're wrong, just making sure you even read what i said before responding because it is illogical in my context.

>>8392606
>then why in the most simple environments that need not interpretation- the smartest, strongest, dick swangingist dude, is the one that is desired and alpha?
Are you blind or have you never seen a woman choose a pretty idiot over a brilliant but socially awkward nerd? Evolution does not select for every positive trait - it selects for whatever traits help the individual self-perpetuate. That is the meaning of the *fittest* - the *most fit to the situation*. Evolution does not strive for anything. It is not a conscious force. It is just something that happens. It produced pigs from boars by the proxy of humans breeding the gentler pigs.

>Survival of the fittest is backwards, i never liked it. Its more like "desire of the most willing and capable."
Sure, Christian Redneck with 8 Children is more able than Alan Turing.

>and i am not ludicrous, flying a rocket over a caveman is superhuman, genetics are a function of time. Only genetics allowed us to remember the past enough to figure out what the fuck is going on right now.
Sure, and our genetics also produce homosexuals and transsexuals. Since they resulted in this those things must be good, right?

>you're so materialistic and self centered that you think you as an individual represent the life of the human "try"
Materialism is the only form of thought compatible with science. No one represents the tribe because the tribe is fiction. There are only individuals, and together they form abstract social structures.

>Maybe you could, but itd be very tough. We've been at this for billions of years and havent done anything expect hit cheap plastic with your fingers a few times.
We've done quite a bit. We're at the point where I have the leisure to educate you over the internet instead of being a subsistence farmer

>>8392628
Cells don't have any motivations period.

>>8392628
>Being alive is characterized by being able to influence the world around us, causing effect.
What do you think cells are doing all day, sitting on their ass until it's cell division time?
Does your body not produce hormones, or regulate body temperature?

Do your neurons not fire electrical impulses all day?
I mean I'm starting to suspect that they actually don't in your case.

>>8392653
>No scientists are tying to play god, bring back things that cannot exists any longer through mating.
I mean, since God doesn't exist someone ought play him.

>Why even go that far though, just make some babies and then live your life.
What for? There are too many people. Let the plebians breed. They're at least good at that. Even an animal can do so.

>I'm not saying humanity wont continue, I'm saying you precious little faggot in particular wont.
Homosexuality has persisted for thousands of years and there is no sign that it is less common than it was in the past. So, it must be the case that it will in fact continue to exist.

>The fact you folks are on the chans realizes your aspirations.
Hey, you're here.

>If I hated you folks pretending to be faggots, I'd leave you alone and let you die out.
Why obsess with having children? Whether you have kids or not you - as in YOU - are still going to die. *You*, specifically, are still going to cease to be.

>>8392664
If a gene boosts the chances of the women in the family to breed by 20% but will rarely cause a child to be gay evolution will still, over time, favor the gene.

>Muh lineage
That's not how evolution works. If the end result is more surviving babies then it is favorable, even if that means some individuals not reproducing.

>>8392607
in hindsight, i'm sorry for not looking back and knee jerking, you were correct grammatically

let me revise, as this is what I meant. This is not an attempt to change my perceived narrative in throws of deception.
*clears throat*

>>Face me or get the fuck out. It is an *ought* statement to say that, out of a statistical range of genetic outcomes, the one which causes an individual to want to reproduce is preferable and "right" while the one that doesn't is "flawed".

Reproduction is a random statistical outcome, yes. This is what makes it so fun, it means we can touch the numbers.

you say "...an individual to WANT to reproduce"
this is hard to tackle honestly
The eggs(dna) purpose is to make a chicken, if it is allowed to do what it structure facilitates. A person might come by and eat the egg, that does not matter here, human taking me wasnt an option its structure facilitated. That action was about the humans faculties.

so the chicken(organism) comes

its so simple, i dont know how to elaborate on it

>>8392740
I understand what you're saying, but you're making a big assumption here: that DNA has a purpose, rather than being a randomly occurring self-perpetuating structure.

I really do strongly suggest that you at least give this page a look. A structure can be self-replicating without its purpose being self-replication. If you randomly place dots and get a glider that does not mean that the glider's purpose is to copy itself and move. That is just a thing it does because things turned out that way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

Another example: consider a computer program that randomly generates text and then attempts to compile it into a program. Most of the results won't compile but an incredibly small amount will. An incredibly smaller amount will actually do something. Now suppose another programmer wrote a program that plays Chess, with the purpose of playing Chess. Given enough time the randomizer will produce the chess-playing program completely at random. Does that mean that the purpose of that randomly-generated program is to play Chess? No, I say. It is just something it happens to do. Purpose can only be attributed to something by a human creating or doing that thing.

>>8392676
>Are you blind or have you never seen a woman choose a pretty idiot over a brilliant but socially awkward nerd? Evolution does not select for every positive trait - it selects for whatever traits help the individual self-perpetuate. That is the meaning of the *fittest* - the *most fit to the situation*. Evolution does not strive for anything. It is not a conscious force. It is just something that happens. It produced pigs from boars by the proxy of humans breeding the gentler pigs.
there you go, immediately taking the claim out of its facilitated environment. Of course a dolphin cant fuck an alpha dolphin if they all moved to dry ground. Also the "brilliant but socially awkward nerd" is very close to becoming. Behold, brilliant can be gained but cannot be lost. Socially awkward nerd can be lost but not gained. Proxies are proxies, you keep pretending they're real even though its call "not real".

>Sure, Christian Redneck with 8 Children is more able than Alan Turing.
I guarantee Alan Turing will never contribute another Alan Turing to the world. Stop being selfish, only thinking the 100 years you may be here only of value.

>Sure, and our genetics also produce homosexuals and transsexuals. Since they resulted in this those things must be good, right?
wrong, please refer to the previous point. It sums it up very clearly.

>Materialism is the only form of thought compatible with science. No one represents the tribe because the tribe is fiction. There are only individuals, and together they form abstract social structures.
are you retarded, how about altruism? none the less, you are a symbol of the human species, nothing more. Human species is the imperative subject here, as that is what is subject to this genetic change and will receive lasting effects, not your selfish little ass.

I'm a very caring individual, there are many more like me that receive the same treatment though. I know I am not imposing, i don't have a goal. I try as a Shepard.

>>8392683
motivations described as reactions to environmental needs. The muscle tissue request for a particular amino acid will not be fulfilled if the cell is in Mitosis. This is my usage of the word- motivation.

>>8392517
correlation =\= causation, this is just factual and you're never going to win an argument trying to say otherwise.

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>>8392803
>I try as a Shepard

It is spelled Shepherd.
And do you know what Shepherds do to Sheep?
They fleece and eat them.

>>8392708
cells react, the environment necessitates that a boulder must be moved. Human organisms implement musculature to deliver this task, assigned by the way the world exists. If we focus on one particular cell in mitosis, it cant and wont respond to a request for amino acid chains, signaled by potassium and calcium ions (physical mechanic) because the way that it is at the time, it cant make amino acid chains, it can't be in two places at once. It cant be and become at the same time.

>>8392716
>Let the plebians breed. They're at least good at that.
you do realize after 100 years, only plebians are left then?

>Homosexuality has persisted for thousands of years and there is no sign that it is less common than it was in the past. So, it must be the case that it will in fact continue to exist.
i'm not talking about your identity as a homosexual, i'm talking about YOU. The person i'm typing back and forth with right now. You're smart enough to have an intelligent conversation and trying to accomplish something of value. The world needs that forever.

>Why obsess with having children? Whether you have kids or not you - as in YOU - are still going to die. *You*, specifically, are still going to cease to be.
Its not about materialism or selfishness, this is a projection of your own beliefs.

>>8392803
>there you go, immediately taking the claim out of its facilitated environment. Of course a dolphin cant fuck an alpha dolphin if they all moved to dry ground. Also the "brilliant but socially awkward nerd" is very close to becoming. Behold, brilliant can be gained but cannot be lost. Socially awkward nerd can be lost but not gained. Proxies are proxies, you keep pretending they're real even though its call "not real".
This has nothing to do with what we've been arguing about. Evolution is factually not always beneficial, and does not always select for beneficial traits. Only the traits that partners prefer. In some cases those are intelligence. In others those are a cute butt and winning a lottery ticket. That is actually a great example: humans are natural social climbers and wealth tends to stay in the family. An idiot coming into a lot of money by chance is likely to successfully breed and not only is he likely to successfully breed but the same is true for his children.

In the end the urge to breed and beneficial traits are not the same thing.

>I guarantee Alan Turing will never contribute another Alan Turing to the world. Stop being selfish, only thinking the 100 years you may be here only of value.
Alan Turing contributed his work, and his work lives on in us. That is far more significant than any genetic material. Most famous scientists don't have children who are also successful famous scientists.

>are you retarded, how about altruism? none the less, you are a symbol of the human species, nothing more. Human species is the imperative subject here, as that is what is subject to this genetic change and will receive lasting effects, not your selfish little ass.
Selfish? I'm not the one who is trying to get people to breed in an overpopulated world with countless orphans. If anything you should be telling us to adopt. Breeding is the selfish act, spreading limited resources even thinner.

>I try as a Shepard.
But you're more like a sheep.

>>8392734
bro the end result isnt simply existing, its creating. A gene that stops reproduction, will end immediately, there is no over time. A baby is born once.

>>8392833
Are you smoking crack?
Because it seems like you're smoking crack.

>>8392791
DNA is responsible for the creation of every single functional protein in our body, further more our enzymes. How we effect and how we digest. The only two options in the game of existing.

wait what do you think dna does?

>>8392814
you're only telling me one way that science doesnt work, that just tells me you only tried and fucked up once

>>8392858
>you do realize after 100 years, only plebians are left then?
Hah, even with all of my derision.. there are plenty of intelligent straight people. They'll do fine.

>i'm not talking about your identity as a homosexual, i'm talking about YOU. The person i'm typing back and forth with right now. You're smart enough to have an intelligent conversation and trying to accomplish something of value. The world needs that forever.
1) Nothing lasts forever.
2) People are generally more productive when they're not constantly miserable.
3) The ideas and intellectual works of people can greatly outlive them and shape the world far more significantly than any child ever could.

>Its not about materialism or selfishness, this is a projection of your own beliefs.
You keep talking about reproduction being akin to life for the sire, but there is no such connection. Fathering or not fathering children.. you're as mortal either way.

>>8392829
no those who wear fleece, fleece the sheep.
those who eat the shit, butcher them

I just shepherd and misspell

I now understand that if you were allowed to shepherd, that you would fleece and eat them. This is indicative of yourself, return and behold.

>>8392874
The gene is perpetuated by the successful women who also carry it. It makes the women more successful and occasionally manifests by making a man less successful. As long as the statistics work out it will keep spreading.

>>8392833
>If we focus on one particular cell in mitosis, it cant and wont respond to a request
A cell in mitosis is still alive.
And cells do not sit on their asses all day until it's cell division time.
They have other things to do, like ensuring your body doesn't fuck up.
although in your case I wonder if mass apoptosis wouldn't be a better way for your cells to spend their time.
It would certainly end their suffering.

>>8392859
at this point i have to assume you have no fundamental basis in biology. if you would like to prove yourself (you dont have to, who the fuck am i) describe to me the phases of mitosis, the most basic description of biology possible.

>>8392882
could you be more specific as to which point you disagree with, your question was general and a retort.

I dont think you have the stamina for this.

>>8392888
What something does is different from what its purpose is, and I don't believe any natural structure has any innate purpose. Understanding the function of DNA - what it does - is important, don't get me wrong, but it is only important because that knowledge can be used to help people not experience things they do not wish to experience. Illnesses are only harmful in the sense that they cause people to feel things that they do not wish to feel, or change their state to a state that they do not desire. Left alone people don't mind being gay. Thus I don't view being gay as an illness.

>>8392903
I'm trying to tell you i care about you furthering who you are into the world. You have incredible stamina just sitting here and actually thinking. You are in the 1% and you have no idea.

>>8392909
this are false, sexists claims. Proved wrong simply by stating the symbols for our reproductive chromosomes XX, XY. Its the simplest math you can do.

>>8392923
sweet you finally understand the logic, your conclusion is still wrong though. I'll let you go from there through. Cheers have a great day and god bless, go have some faggot sex you earned it.

>>8392929
What a joke. Had you a counterargument you'd deploy it, but you don't so you're dodging the questions.

>>8392949
If dna didnt exist, nothing alive would exist. you get that right? If you had a magic want and said delete the dna, all that would remain is dust and water.

>>8392965
That's a complete non-sequitur.

>>8392979
I havent deployed a counterargument simply because you havent deployed an argument. All you have done is nit pick my claim (which is what i want, that is the point) but you need to reflect and respond with your own. Not my antis.

If you have a similar request that would give me some credibility, i'd be happy to do it

>>8392972
>your conclusion is still wrong though.
My conclusion, namely that if your cells would all spontaneously commit apoptosis it would improve the lives of all of us, is factually correct.

And me having to repeat myself 45 times because you're rambling on about something completely irrelevant to the topic and conveniently ignoring all the cases where you were either blatantly wrong or ignorant, proves that you wasted everyone's precious time.
You absolute biological failure.

>>8392984
There would be no life, yes. And?

>>8392992
I'm not familiar with that term, could you help me understand better?

>>8392994
>about something completely irrelevant to the topic
bro i am OP???

>>8393000
????????? nothing exists any more, our books, art, roads, movies, motivations, movements, words, none of it would ever matter anymore.

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>>8393011
Congratulations, you derailed your own fucking thread.

>>8392993
>I havent deployed a counterargument simply because you havent deployed an argument.
Sure I have.
Premise: Evolutionary pressure is not always beneficial.
Proof:
1) Humans are social climbers. This is well-documented. People tend to seek out wealthier mates.
2) Social mobility is limited. Wealth tends to stay in the family. This was even more the case in the past, in places with rigid caste systems.
3) People do not always come into wealth by virtue of being smart or strong. Sometimes it is enough to be lucky or brutal or just born to rich parents and not inherit their good traits due to random mutations.

Conclusion: Evolution can, in certain environments, self-select for bad traits because they come with a non-genetic good trait (wealth). Evolution does not always improve things over time. It is a force with no intention. A process.

>>8392734
Evidence it does boost the woman's reproductive chances?

>>8393045
It's an hypothesis. I'm not that dude but that other person completely misinterpreted their argument so I thought I'd clarify.

It's one guess as to why homosexuality has survived to this day when we know for a fact it is hereditary. You'd think it would weed itself out but it did not.

>>8393029
What does that have to do with DNA having a supposed innate natural purpose, as opposed to a function?

>>8393032
i am the captain, plus i'm having plenty of other wonderful discussion here. its not just you in this world, you arent special but we all are together.

>>8393055
Or it's cultural. Statistical heriditariness doesn't rule that out.

>>8393079
We know homosexuality is genetic and/or natal-environmental. This isn't really disputed. We don't know why it survived to this point.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/27/9403.abstract
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex/

Restructuring the brain to look similar to that of the opposite sex isn't exactly something culture can do.

>>8393071
>i am the captain
And you sunk your own ship within 5 posts.
That's a record.

Well at least you didn't hightail out of there like these shitposters usually do so praise be upon you or something.

>>8392119
I'm gay and while I probably would have been mildly fucked up in the head due to genetics, I can tell you that the social stigma completely turned all my potential mental illnesses up to 11. Growing up with your family hating you, you never having any dating prospects, and being ostracized at school and never having any friends because you "act gay" or "sound gay" (not because you said anything) and didn't bother to get a fake girlfriend. Like, that shit fucks you up. Not to mention the rest of society absolutely (but casually) hates gay people, gay is a derogatory term and it's treated as one of the most shameful things a man can be. Do you get where I'm going with this?

>>8393098
Yes it is and calling for citations on heterosexual people never also having "brains structured like those of the opposite sex".

>>8393043
Your proof is represented by an arbitrary measurement system you project on every human society like they were anything alike. I respect all of your arguments and would expand on them if i had more information, you can do that though.
You havent proposed any genetic relation to social constructs, which i'm sure you would typically argue are fake, which i would argue but lets continue for amusements sake.

You assume wealth and social class dictate success in the world. Wealth and social class are intrasectional only within the species of humans. Success is a intersectional concept across the world and perceivable time.
You're still trying to win/beat your own human kind, I'm talking about an entirely different object completely. I think the infatuation this board seems to have with those pillars is characteristic of the symptoms of apotheosis.

You're suicide bombing the human race through genetics.

im not sure i got it across but you havent displayed any scientific reinforcement for your claims. You just typed them out in a nice order with good punctuation, not even realizing you sound like a literal retard. Go on timehop or something, you'll see you literally sound retarded.

all of the "good" things you assume are fake and could be gone tomorrow, they have no hold to the earth

>>8393070
with out dna nothing is nothing because nothing would be living? god i'm going retarded at this point

>>8393079
>behold and witness,
faggotry is a result of the mother using birth control during conception, or similar. Certainly propagated by natal-environmental hazards similar to Mercury.

>>8393125
We know these brain structures are dimorphic exactly because they differ between men and women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences

>>8393099
Thanks for appreciating my grit

im pretty sure gay people come from mothers using birth control after conception, likely unknowingly because they thought their birth control was working. The timeline adds up too, as for past incidence, which is no where near where we are today percentage wise was likely do to Mercury as most faggorty was reserved to areas like greece. From there all we see is rape in the context of gayness, but rather for control.

>>8393182
> The timeline adds up too, as for past incidence, which is no where near where we are today percentage wise was likely do to Mercury as most faggorty was reserved to areas like greece.
Your grasp of gay history is severely lacking.

>>8393172
Re-read my post and find a citation on the fact you need for your theory to be workable.

>implying any such evidence exists

>>8393117
are you sure the social stigma and faggotry didnt dance together across your progression into adulthood? I imagine it'd be awful hard to mark things like that that far in your past without a diary simply due to progressionary bias, we change.

>>8393128
Hey, try following your own advice and reading this post because you've said nothing relevant in it. The ideas I'm presenting are not even new or controversial. They're the party line of biology.

>not even realizing you sound like a literal retard.
Ironic.

>>8393161
>faggotry is a result of the mother using birth control

Nigga, if that were true there would be a helluva lot more fags in the world.
And how do you explain Oscar Wilde and Tchaikovsky and Alexander the Great, not to mention the Greeks?

>>8393202
I mean sure, I'm willing to consider that I had a fucked up brain to begin with but that doesn't mean the social stigma didn't do me in and make my life absolute hell. I did keep diaries during this time and high school was only 4 years away for me. I'm really introspective and have been all my life (due to having very few friends as I was 'the gay kid') and my feelings haven't changed very much over the years.

>>8393198
enlighten me, statistically. Your stats are meme's.

I bet you dont know the DEA and CCA in collaboration are responsible for the United States having more people incarcerated at the moment than there have ever been prisoners, respectfully.

your history is based on numbers like 300, 6,000,000, 1, 2,

>>8393199
There is overwhelming evidence for men and women having sexually dimorphic brains. There is evidence that gay individuals have brains more similar to people of the opposite sex. I've provided citations for both facts.

You're asking for evidence that there are no straight individuals with such brains. Well, you're actually the one making the extraordinary claim here. The burden of proof is on you.

>>8393223
You severely underestimate me.

>>8393223
Homosexuals have existed for literally thousands of years.

>6,000,000
So you're a dimwitted nazi as well. Nice.

>>8393209
>>Certainly propagated by natal-environmental hazards similar to Mercury.

Ate a shit ton of fish all the time, even the statues show us that they had tiny dicks, related to estrogen and its odd relationship to mercury intake.

>>8393223
I bet you dont know that there are more people at the moment than there have ever been, respectfully.

your history is based on numbers like 88, 420, 69

>>8393216
did you suffer abuse from your nuclear family before the age of 13? even more importantly around the age of 5?

>>8393227
I'm not and I didn't think there was any either.

Your theory is bunk. Spend your time more productively. yw.

>>8393238
I'd love to learn if thats the case.

>>8393254
No, my family wasn't abusive (physically/sexually, emotionally somewhat but that came later). Everything was peaches and cream growing up until I hit 13 actually lmao

>>8393243
Nice programed recoil
but yeah they have i'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the propensity for faggotry or behavior of its likeness. Water filtration centers have no mechanism to filter the metabolites of birth control released in a womens urine. thats a biggie too. Old faggots just ate a lot of mercury rich fish and practiced occult shit

>>8393258
You're ignoring the science by sticking your head in the sand and any bystander can see that. I can only thank you for playing the strawman, unwittingly educating any people who read this thread as to why I'm right and you're wrong.

>There is ironclad evidence that men and women have different brains
>Literally hundreds of studies show this
>There is evidence that gay individuals have brains which are shifted in the direction opposite to that of their natal sex
>You're asking for proof that there are not straight men with brains that look female
It is up to you to prove that there ARE such men, such the data shows that 1) brains are sexually dimorphic and 2) homosexuals have feminized/virilized brains.

Not that you care about science, or citations. You have your little ideology and fee fees and can't allow facts to challenge them.

>>8393249
what does 88 mean, is that a football player >>8393279
could you explain a little further? i cant understand things truly unless people speak truly. ya know what i mean? even if its hard and gross and shameful and embarrassing, its all great.

>>8393284
>Nice programed recoil
People naturally show disgust when faced with shit Fritz. Follow your leader.

>>8393298
>You're ignoring the science
You're ignoring the need for science, because you'd got the point where the popsci that's made it's way to wikipedia says what you want it to say, so they can stop bothering with any more scientific inquiry right there in your opinion.

>>8393338
>Men and women having different brains is pop science
Are you absolutely mad? The scientific community has recognized these differences for decades. As to the symmetry study.. I linked you to the paper! You're a science denialist. At least admit it.

>>8393371
>strawman
Literally kill yourself.

>>8393386
Face the facts or get the fuck out. This is some radfem tier shit.

>>8393302
Sure. So, like most families in America my family is a relatively conservative Christian one. I had a happy childhood and look back fondly on most of my life before age 13. I was a full believer in Christianity too.

Then, puberty hit me at I would say about 12. Almost 13. But my dick started getting hard and it happened when I would see really good looking guys. Cue the whole exploration thing - wait girls don't turn me on either? But they're supposed to? What the hell? What's wrong with me?
No one had explained to me what being gay was or really meant, I kind of just assumed it was something that happened to other people. I knew it was bad, but not how bad.
I almost had a mental breakdown when researching being gay and Christianity because all of the resources online basically told me that being gay was sinful and I would go to hell unless I remained celibate for the rest of my life. I ended up researching more and more, and then started to realize that none of the things I was reading made sense. Began questioning my religion. For years I fapped to my fantasies about guys and then would watch lesbian porn/look at hot girls right before I came in an effort to 'convert' myself to straight. I mentally tried so hard to find girls sexually attractive but I never did.
Anyways throughout all this I was hella confused, didn't know that I was supposed to pretend I was interested in girls and when I tried to I wasn't really able to convincingly. That plus my voice led to everyone thinking I was gay in school from about 13-14 onward, which resulted in severe social isolation. I think my only friends were really nerdy secretly liberal girls and even then we were never that close.
My brother figured out a few years later that I was gay (my 'gay voice' didn't really go away until I was in my 20's, and even now I'm sure I still sound gay but I've stopped obsessing over my voice to care enough to see) and he told my parents.

>>8393413
My parents basically interrogated me and I denied denied denied and then ended up breaking down crying telling them that I was just confused, that I had gay feelings sometimes but I was going to fix myself or whatever. My dad was totally shocked and disgusted and my mom was just like.. disappointed and depressed. They made me talk to our pastor one time about it which was severely uncomfortable and unhelpful. Other than that they just basically did a complete 180 from being supportive, helpful, kind parents to disinterested, apathetic parents that viewed me as a failure and they still treat me like that to this day. It all fucked me up a lot.

the end

>>8393302
she meant 1488 obviously

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>>8393413
>all of the resources online basically told me that being gay was sinful and I would go to hell unless I remained celibate for the rest of my life

negro, please

>>8393441
>when researching being gay and Christianity

>>8393310
I have no leader, i shepherd when it is good

>>8393455
Nah, given the 6 million comment I'm fairly sure your leader is a certain mustached German madman.

>>8393413
Very interesting, completely contrary to any of my arguments. Maybe i can save myself, do you desire to have a first born male of your own? does the idea of the first son of yours being a leader?

I certainly think the fake voice, of any kind is an inflection of severe mental disorder. Where a person has skewed from their literal voice. I function just fine with a severe mental disorder dont get me wrong, we're all retarded.

Did the family dine on fish frequently? Did you suffer any odd ailments?

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>>8393455
>I shepherd

mfw

>>8393429
did you know that they would react that way? or was it very scary and unexpected?

>>8393435
oh i think i've seen that meme, i generally stay out of any threads that are nazi related.

i get the ideas and shit, hitler was a rationalist but his evil was not looking at other options. It doesnt take a genius to understand its probably a bad idea to organize under the Nazi's, regardless of what the truth is. They're misguided i think, quick to fill in the blanks of their psyche

>>8393466
youre goofy for thinking dead people can be leaders, they cant even point. The nazi thing is probably just retarded kids falling for a meme. It doesnt take a lot of thought to understand organizing under hitler is a bad idea regardless...

>>8393476
what do you think i want to do? I suffer with these thoughts about myself, what if I've convoluted my life into an evil lie as such i would act as a wolf without knowing it? the simple fact that thought arises gives me faith though. I'm not exactly sure what my end game is, or even if i have a game but i just wanna help and help understand truths, even if they may be hard.

>>8393522
The hard truth is that there is only matter, that there is no such thing as natural purpose.

>>8393475
I have no desire to have children.

Salmon occasionally but mostly we ate chicken/pork/beef. We didn't live near the sea or anything. I'm nearsighted and have digestive issues but other than that I don't have any medical problems.

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>>8393475
>Did the family dine on fish frequently?

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Why do gayness and promiscuity/lack of commitment go hand in hand?

>>8392387
>>8392402
The "nothing really mattress" argument. Life is completely random and meaningless therefore any kind of degenerate behavior is totally fine! Nihilism.

>>8393531
the way the things are determine what is done

>>8393537
digestive issues is a light bulb

New studies attribute bad gut flora to depression, awaiting further study. What you eat determines what bacteria flourish in your gut, then they shit into your blood and brain. This is gonna sound silly but it might explain why people have scat and anal fetishes, bad gut flora lol

>>8393640
>Why do gayness and promiscuity/lack of commitment go hand in hand?
There's no women to gatekeep sex, and testosterone does the rest.

>>8393677
well said, it really reinforces the role of the women in society. Policing degeneracy with pussy power.

>>8393640
>looking at correlation while willfully ignoring causation
sad

>>8393640
>Why do gayness and promiscuity/lack of commitment go hand in hand?

Because we don't have religion/guilt or children to keep loveless relationships alive.

If heteros didn't have those things they would be promiscous too.

Ever heard of Tinder?

>>8393700
i agree with you, that is a genuine homophobe which is fine and all but it invalidates the second part of his statement which is good. Keep shit to yourselves like adults. >>8393640

>>8393677
Not sure I understand what you mean by this

>>8393700
I didn't state a causation only a correlation and asked why.

>>8393705
Perhaps religion and children do account for it.

>>8392119
>How do you reconcile?
by not caring m8

>>8392119

I have a question and it's one I can't really ask anyone in person but it's occurred to me over and over again. I have no problem with the concept of homosexuality. I totally get how it's a naturally occurring "deviation" from the biological norm and that's fine. My question is about lesbians who look and act like men. I don't get it. If you are a lesbian and you like other women then what do you see in a "woman" who dressed, behaves, grooms, and in almost every way possible acts male. It makes no sense to me.

>>8393865
THIS. Why do gay people start to assume traits of the opposite sex? If you liked women you wouldn't like masculine women you would like feminine women.

>>8393865
>>8393898

m80s homosexuals have brains that look more similar to those of members of the other sex they act more femme/masc because they ARE more femme/masc.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex/

Read this...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/695142.stm

>>8393898
Blanchard explains everything.

>>8392373
>>8392463
codons are groups of 3 bases. Start and Stop codons are each 1 codon.