Stories of homophobic people who turned out to be gay.

I was a trans-phobic person that turned out trans if that counts.

>binladen
>911
kek.

>>8387911
my uncle

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>>8387911

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>>8387911
Myself

>>8388078
this lol

>>8388078
this but unironically

>>8387911
https://www.queerty.com/antigay-pastors-adult-gay-film-past-is-uncovered-to-nobodys-surprise-20150202
Not in the mood in screenshoting the page

>>8387927
me too and i still kind of am, like i want really nothing to do with the trans community.
>therapist recommends group therapy
>look up their website
>it's all FTMs and 50 year old men in dresses
>she gets upset when i tell her that they seem weirdos
kinda felt bad because she probably had friends in there who ran that group.

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>>8387911
Ted Haggard's a classic example, and he's set the standard for hypocrite homophobe.

From this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA

to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU_rgtVXnl8 / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGed9tSEOzo

What's that old saying, "Hypocrites make the best scolds?"

>>8388169
Kek

It is kinda shitty of you flaunting your ~generational privilege~


Old people suck tho, fuck them

>>8388212
lol i started at 20 years old. Also i do think the group (or well it's a part of really big lgbtiq+ association) does a lot of good things but i can not see myself going there just because they don't seem to accept more stereotypical females.

>>8387927
same, and for years I had to fight with self hatred and internalized transphobia

it was easy to start hrt, it was hard to say I want to be a woman or think of myself as one beyond sexual fantasies

>>8387911
i used to be a salafist muslim, i used to hate gays based on a lie told to me by my imam, saying it was in the quran and that its the word of god.

it doesnt mention it anywhere, but i believed it for years, hating myself and others. then i realized my sect, salafism, was not only incorrect, it was Created/Revived by the british in a attempt to make arabs fight against their ottoman overlords.

this was not religion, this was politics. i had been arguing, fighting, suffering my whole life over a political struggle so that the saudi royal family could make more money at my own and my family's expense.

I then read of the islamic golden age, wondering how the fuck, could salfists, people who believe mathematics and chess is "of the devil", contibute anything to mathematics at all?

turns out the first sect of islam wasn't salafism, not even close, it was a progressive, rationalist doctrine called Mu'tazilism, all of those guys Al-khwarezemi, al-haytam, al-kindah etc. were all members of that sect.

so instead of just converting to atheism, abandoning islam leaving it to rot. i decided to convert to this old sect instead. now i finally feel peace with who i am, i can keep to my ancestral roots and at the same time i feel great for bringing a small sliver of change to the islamic world.

>>8388906
How can you possibly reconcile calling yourself a 'rationalist' and still being Muslim?

You obviously know a great deal about history, don't the historical facts about the "prophet" Mohammed and his war to conquer Arabia from the pagan Arab tribes make you uncomfortable with calling him "prophet"?

>>8388923
There are plenty of historians and scientists from every religion.

I'm not the muslim anon, I'm an atheist and have been my entire life, but having an interest in history isn't inherently contradictory to being religious.

>>8388923
while i accept that islam is certainly not a religion of peace, i dont say its explicitly a religion of violence either, you cannot take something in 2D, you must look at the reasoning and historical context of everything.


having said that, no, i believe muhammad was a just a man, like you or me, he said that himself, its actually the reason why muslims dont draw pictures of him, or worship him. He was Just a man. a leader, a very successful one at that, seeing as he reuinted all of arabia.

he said, that arabia was it, perhaps anatolia, but nothing more than that. the following caliphs had to justify an offensive war, muhammads wars were all defensive ones and they had never fought an offensive war before that, so they came up with something on the spot, they said "islam is the only true religion" and used that logic to justify an offensive war against the empire of persia (sassanid dynasty).

the caliphs after just kept adding onto that philosophy, adding their own bits in to make controlling people easier, paying clerics to do speeches for them etc. islam was now no longer just a religion as intended, it was a political movement. Mu'tazilites argued against it, wanting the separation of mosque and state. but the problem was that there was rebellions erupting everywhere, and the caliphate was at war, they needed a way to unite people, and using religion as a political force could do that easily, you cant unite a persian and arab just like that, you need something else to unify them. over time though it became a problem, and lead to what we have today. Political islam, Salafism, wahabaism etc.

Low IQ Blind followers of some clerics and a literal king (saudi).

as a mutazilite, i believe the quran is an inspired word of god, not his literal word, and that it should NEVER be taken at face value, it must be interpreted and it must be innovated, similar to the Christians and their bible. i believe once this is done, people will choose the the right one

>>8387911
isis

>>8389010
>muhammads wars were all defensive ones
Not really dude. Mohammed was quite the aggressive and daring warlord actually. Mohammed's army sacked Mecca despite facing superior numbers of defenders. Mohammed's army slaughtered the pagans that were defending Mecca. Then the city was forcibly converted to Islam.

From the very beginning Islam has been about war, because it is a warlord's cult of personality...

You seem like an intelligent guy, I simply can't understand how someone like you could call himself a Muslim, with all the information on Mohammed's life available today...

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>>8389015

>>8389039
well that first bit you mentioned, the only record we have of that is the hadith, and even there it says, the pagan army surrendered and no one was killed in the conquest of mecca.

there was a siege of medina but that wasn't muhammad, that was the pagans and the jewish tribes. here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Trench

as for the conquest of mecca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Mecca

12 losses. out of an entire city. and those losses were not even in a battle.

while we can sit here and argue from both sides all day, we simply do not have the evidence to prove muhammads character either way, sure, he was a warlord as you might say, but he was also a caliph, it was kind of in the job description to defend his people.

now goign through it logically, mecca was the centre os the arab tribes, all the tribes would bring their gods to be placed inside the kaabah (he black cube). when muhammad conquered mecca, all of the pagan tribes declared war.

so can you see how it was defensive battles?

I do not justify his actions, i do not justify anything that happens, because i cant, i dont have the evidence, but neither does the opposing side. it is simply down to belief.

and when it comes to belief, ive clearly stated that the quran should not be taken literally. I identify as a muslim, because i believe in god, i believe in the 5 pillars of islam and i believe in the 10 commandments of moses. i also am a viscous opponent of offensive wars and political islam. i keep my religion to myself, and dont force it on others, and i believe all muslims should be like this, sadly they are often not given the choice, since today the same conditions that made salfism's equivalent rise in the past, are also present today.

>>8388100
the porn he was in http://www.myvidster.com/video/97242530/Pastor_Jos_Santiago_Gustavo_Arrango_4300

I'm bisexual female and still kinda homophobic, at least when it comes to gay guys. So many of them are just....really gross and obnoxious.

Love LBT though.

>>8389278
i'm >>8389104
and i'm Bi (male). why do you find gay people obnoxious? perhaps its just down to your personal experience with 1 or two guys? most i've met have been really friendly to me, never a hint of anything aggressive or being gross.

>>8389104
>the only record we have of that is the hadith, and even there it says, the pagan army surrendered and no one was killed in the conquest of mecca
It also says the pagans' idols were smashed and all were converted. Mohammed's army conquered a city, destroyed the pagan's holy places and converted them all to Islam - and you honestly believe only twelve of the defenders died in the battle that led to this?

You have to read between the lines, Anon. There is no way Mohammed took that city with hugs and kisses. You can't say he was fighting a war to defend Muslims when Muslims were destroying the pagan holy places. The historical fact is that Mohammed took over Arabia by the sword.

>>8389278
LBT can feel free to fuck off any time.

>>8389308

Just the attitudes, both irl and online. Most of the emotional labor of LGBTQ gets done by women (cis and trans) and meanwhile gay guys are just....there? Being smarmy and obnoxious.

But yeah its just banter I am sure there are plenty of good gay guys too.

>>8389323
>emotional labor
what

>>8389312
right, i do know he smashed the idols, and thats actually the reason why all the pagans declared war on islam. mecca was their holiest city. but it was also the holiest city in islam.

in the pagan faith, they believed in 1 god to start with, and that Ishmael built the kaabah, (ishmael was a jew btw, the son of Abraham).

but after many years of looting the people of mecca convinced a neighbouring tribe that if they were to instead place their god inside the kaabah, instead of attacking mecca, they would be more successful, in their trade and would have no need to attack mecca for money. by chance, in the same year, a himyarite trading caravan passed through the tribes territory and they were able to trade their goods. news spread to neighbouring tribes, and slowly each tribe placed their gods in the kaabah, mecca made its own god, to replace elohim, because elhohim didnt protect them, trade was their saviour.

This new god was called Hubaal. god of the caravans and trade, the god who led the himyarites to the attacking tribe and saved mecca.

Now muslims, as you know are abrahamic, allah is eloheim, (arabs used to call him elloh).

they believed that the pagans of mecca had deviated from Judaism in order to make money off the gods, whilst securing religious control over arabia. (which is kind of what happened, the tribes paid tax to keep the gods inside mecca).

so he smashed the gods, to show that they weren't gods, just pieces of clay. do i agree with how he did it? or what he did? No I dont.

but do i believe that the act of destroying an idol is inherently evil? no i dont.

as for the conquest of mecca, look, i know it sounds hard to believe, but there are documented examples of such things happening. look at saladins conquest of Jerusalem. he didnt harm a single citizen, and allowed them safe pilgrimage.

do i think muhammad and saladin acted the same? the truth is i dont know, and we can never know for sure, since we cant go back in time.

>>8389352
>so he smashed the gods, to show that they weren't gods, just pieces of clay. do i agree with how he did it? or what he did? No I dont.
>do i believe that the act of destroying an idol is inherently evil? no i dont.
I think you would not feel so ambiguously about this kind of thing if we were discussing a pagan army that destroyed a Muslim holy place.

>we can never know for sure
Perhaps not with 100% certainty. However, common sense would dictate that the pagan tribesmen in Mecca did not simply bend over and presents their backsides to Mohammed while he took their greatest stronghold from them, destroyed their holy places along with all their business interests, and converted their people to his new cult of personality...

>>8388906
It's cool to meet a Muslim here. I'm really into Middle Eastern men, so I've gotten to learn a lot about the Islamic faith just through hook-ups over the years. I'm a Christian, but I've come to believe that we worship the same God.

Unfortunately, we also share false preachers spreading lies and hatred about homosexuality and many other things.

>>8389385
>I think you would not feel so ambiguously about this kind of thing if we were discussing a pagan army that destroyed a Muslim holy place.

to me the holy place means nothing but a pile of bricks, have at it. Islam isnt inside a mosque, or that black cube, if its destroyed i will not melt or turn to dust screaming "Nooo! foolish infidlels *gargle*"


>However, common sense would dictate that the pagan tribesmen in Mecca did not simply bend over and presents their backsides to Mohammed

muhammad had 10,000 men, the pagans according to hadith had roughly 2000-3000, and the nearest jewish force was located in khaybar.

the leader of the pagans, banu sufyan, saw his odds of winning, and conceded to muhammad. gave the keys to the kaabah, and said to his followers, hubaal couldnt protect them, renounced his faith and converted.

thus concluding the war between the muslims and the quraysh tribe, muhammad said that as a compromise he would make qurayashi arabic the lingua franca for arabia.

banu sufyan was a king, muhammad was a caliph.

(caliphs were democratically elected rulers originally)

>>8389416
>Unfortunately, we also share false preachers spreading lies and hatred about homosexuality and many other things.
absolutely, it sucks.

i just follow a small sect atm, and theyre pretty chill with regards to homosex and stuff. good to meet someone here with a favorable opinion of middle eastern men though :) you seem quite nice.

>>8389425
allu ahkbar XD

>>8389343
she's an idiot. case closed

>>8389503
lol, basically summed up the history of islam in your 2 word and smiley reply.

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>>8388906
>>8389416

Idk why you are having such a hard time believing that a city state can be conquered without violence. Its really simple, if the conquering force is of overwhelming size and strength and you want to live then if offered the chance for surrender most will do accept. Another thing to remember is that there had been multiple clashes between the muslims and the pagan tribes that had been won and lost by both sides but generally always resulted in unfortunate consquences for both sides such loss of loved ones, loss of prestige( it was a medieval society so they cared about honor), loss of economic opportunity and so on. Another thing to remember is that in ancient societies( and not so ancient societies) the barrier between the natural and supernatural was not always very solid, many earlier societies were seriously superstitious and so they believed in a metanarrative of the universe. It was commonly perceived by people that a war between different societies also plays out in the supernatural realm between the deities of those societies and whichever society won the conflict was obviously the one with the victorious and supreme gods. So the people involved and near by would learn which gods were more 'true' or greater and people were more willing to accept the religion of the upstarts once they demonstrated that they werent going to be struck down by the gods and as such had legitimacy. People see this as evidence of the will of heaven and follow the path their superstitions laid out for them into accepting new gods. The same happened with the Meccans, they had seen that their gods were not quite as supreme as they used to be and that the time had come for new divinities. Many of the most devoted Meccans had already gotten themselves killed or had spent much of their political, social and financial capital on fighting the muslims and riling up the people already and they had not been highly successful so the people were less interested in their path.

>>8388169
haha, same!

>>8389476
This is a long shot, but you don't happen to be in Germany, do you?

Ive noticed that too. Gay guys do not seem to be as strongly interested in social justice. That is of course not a rule, I know of several leaders who are male homosexuals. Plus the male homosexuals community has several problems within the subculture, i didnt notice it for a long time but casual racism regarding 'in-to's' is endemic. I dont think that it really is a problem born of really racism but it strikes people as racism. People just dont seem that interested in goodness, but really that sort of apathy is all of our society and one cant really blame one tiny group much more than others.

Im not entirely sure if there really is a problem with following the quran in literal interpretations. Obviously it is clear that there is a lot more going on in the quran than just what is explicitly stated and in order to get a full experience of islam that subtext is absolutley necessary. About literal interpretations of the quran, the terrorist and assorted 'undesirable' leaning types aren't literally interpreting the quran, they rely on clumsy tranlsations, interpretations( often devoid of histori-social context), or they use misinterpretations instead of truly understanding what is written. Ive come to understand that there are many unsatisfactory translations of the quran abounding, often concentrated in the hands of intolerant people both muslim and not for use in justifying their unappetizing positions. if you google a well known verse of the quran youll see that often in the images section there are almost none that are exactly the same. One problem with this is that most of the people translating the quran are devout muslims with an intimate knowledge of the quran and the arabic language but they are missing a key ingredient: mastery of the second langauge, and as such their translations often end up missing the beauty and poetry that should be present but also smaller things like using wrong words of being very brief when in the recipient language the ideas are immediately clear at all.

>>8389722
closer than america at least, im in the UK. i have a few associates in berlin though, so i visit on occasion. perhaps once every 2-3 months though, depending on what i have to do.

>>8389425
sorry had a brain fart, its Abu sufyan ibn harb :D

>>8388906
Your right about salafiism being revived and brought to prominence as a geopolitical tool by the Brits and that this tradition carried on up to today to give legitimacy to various powers. Salaafiism actually originally started in the end of the Islamic golden age( it was both symptomatic and exacerbating of the problem) as possibly a reaction to the Mu'tazilites. I would like to note that Mu'tazilism is not generally considered a sect of Islam by anybody but rather a school of thought in islam. Honestly salaafiism was not really considered a sect either but some people are starting to consider it as sect. Regardless both Mu'tazilism and Salaafiism have generally been considered schools of thought within the Sunni sect. Of course there is room for crossover. About the Mu'tazilites: their more prominent features were their belief in absolute free will of humans( something that mostly seems to be supported by the quran and hadith) and their pursuit of knowledge. I do not think the Mu'tazilism is dead however, despite the fact that most muslims have never heard of it while most have heard of the salaafis. A great many of the islamic beliefs and values i was raised with seem to parralel the Mu'tazila creed and ethos. As I mentioned earlier the Mu'tazila position seems to have strong, easily identifiable support from the quran and the hadith.

>>8387927
me too
>/pol/tard for years
>tranny in denial
>extreme denial about liking guys too
fuck

>>8389842
Do you have any more details?
That sounds like a fun if depressing story.
Are you happier now?

>>8389834
thanks, and thats true, its certainly not dead, infact i think we may see a full on revival of it as a defence mechanism to isis, when they push islam so far to the right of the spectrum something is going to snap, and theyve been doing it for 800 years now, the people have had enough, enough of being called barbarians and terrorists and savages. those who actually are barbarians, will respond as such, while those who arent, will rejoin the only school of thought that makes sense. Hanbalism needs to go, the caliphs realised how dangerous an ideology it was, they should have killed him instead of imprisonment. hes the cause of isis and the death of our golden age, how i despise that troglodyte sack of shit. hanfism was an attempt to try be a mutazilite while appeasing hanbalis with their extremism, it has failed, looking now at places like pakistan and iraq, hanfism is simply a pre-cursor to hanbalism.

>>8389859
Sure. I'm happier now. I started taking HRT a few months ago and going to a therapist. I used to be so angry all of the time and I think /pol/ nazi shit was a huge outlet for it. I used to treat trannies the absolute fucking worse and i feel so guilty over it.

>>8388238
I would let this guy fuck my boipussi

l o v e b e a r s

>be me
>plays videogames and don't wanna work
>be a female victim of rape by a female predator at early age
>realize you are bi when your female best friend touchs your checks
>move houses with single mom falls into depression
>becomes a fujo and find something happy to do again
>tumblr happens
>social justice happens
>become friends with straight female fujos and falling in love with one of them that happens to be from kuwait.
>starts hating other bis women and lgbt because of how authoritarian and obnoxious they act.
Yeh

>>8388906
The world needs about one billion more people like you. At least.

>>8389278
Sure, there's a bit of truth to almost any stereotype. And you sound extremely spoiled and shallow.
Get out more.

>be me
>never hated transpeople or gays
>in fact was a huge proponent of trans people, used to argue about it on /pol/ often before that board went to complete shit during the election
>convinced most of my friends that trans people have a legitimate struggle and that they aren't just creepy mentally ill freaks
>come to the realisation that I myself am trans after a long bout of dysphoria-induced depression

Does this mean I'm tru-trans? I'm sure some might think I'm a trender SJW but I've been on hormones happily for a year and LGBT stuff was the only thing social-justicey thing I was outspoken about, and I believe genderqueer tumblr fags are delusional just as much as anyone else.

>>8389883
My understanding is that you are correct about how there is now a growing push back against the extremists and their ideology. However i think that this sort of development was inevitable, most of the muslim world is still in developing nation or fully third world status, this is not a situation that lends itself to the creation of enlightened beings. Along with much of the developing world muslim countries are starting to really grow into modern economies that are large and industrialized enough to include everyone, as this progresses i orders of magnitudes more people will have educations and the higher education which will naturally result in these societies moving away from the often relatively simplistic and unpleasant worldviews of the extremists. I believe it is a natural social process like the demographic transition. The end of the islamic golden age was hastened by the teachings of various puritanical/fundamentalist philosophy's but those puritan and fundamentalist philosophy's started to rise again because of the decline of the islamic golden age. The ideological side( religious, philosophical side) was decaying at the same time as/because of/exacerbating the political-legal-military situation of the Abbasid empire. Part of the reason the puritans/fundamentalists rose in prominence was because the leaders of the Abbasid empire started to try to interfere in the ideologica/philosphical debate in an effort to bolster their faltering legitimacy by supporting the side of the golden age social/philosophical/intellectual elites but they ended up making holy martyrs(ish) out of the puritans. To be honest i dont know if the various schools of thought are irredeemable, im inclined to thinking that with more education they will become better.

>>8389933
Id say 7 billion more would be around what we need.

>>8389950
you have a very strong set of points there, thank you for the response, i respect your answer.

you strike me as someone who's also a muslim. or atleast someone with an above average knowledge of islam and its history, im impressed honestly.

>>8389979
I am, to both i guess. Thnks

>>8389985
no problem friend :) salam aleikum.

>>8388906
i should probably mention these scientists btw.

Female Muslim scientists in the 10th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariam_al-Asturlabi
- invented the astrolabe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubna_of_C%C3%B3rdoba
-famous writer and poet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhr-un-Nisa
- scholar

etc etc.

they used to be like http://i.imgur.com/AZ4wUwq.jpg

and now they're like http://i.imgur.com/1X1qSy1.jpg

thanks to fundamentalism and extremist ideologies. We must bring back the golden age, a second time, and rid the world of this cancer.

>>8390079
Let's nuke the middle East and create a new beautiful world. Blair White will be our leader.

>>8390079
I doubt that its possible to recreate the islamic golden age in this day and age, everything is to interconnected to have it just be islamic. On that note though the best option for seeing something like the islamic golden age bloom again is a relatively new phenomenon in western countries, im american so i only really know about the american part of it but from what i understand the canadian side is basically the same as the american side though i think this may not fully apply across the pond in europe because the situation seems to be different there, still it might be possible there too. Basically in America the muslim community is becoming more established with active islamic centers and masjids and there are american muslims who have started saying that they believe that american muslims communities and institutions are going to become more unified and start to rise in prominence in the muslim world until American muslims become the new leaders of the muslim world. Its a pretty impressive vision and looking at big muslim america organizations like cair and icna and many others, particularly those developing at the local level( for community service, community engagement, and education), one might actually think that it is possible for america to become a center for muslims. I think it is really interesting, and as my family and i have been volunteering in local islamic centers since i was 6, i think its possible. The people have the vision for this to occur and just image what it means, if american muslims become a prominent force in the global muslim world then that would been the current centers of the muslim world would necessarily lose some of their social-cultual power and instead the global community of muslims would look up to american muslims.

>>8390208
wow, i think its amazing you volunteered at such a young age, to a noble cause like that as well. well done anon.

i believe you guys can do it, i do think though that such organisations such as cair etc. should be completely grass roots funded, and avoid taking saudi money.